Guild Wars 2

agree with most of the posts.
gw2 simply changed the audience it caters to.
I don’t know if it ll manage to fight with wow as mmorpg or with other mmos as an e-sport..but it is no more a casual friendly game.
not as it was at launch.

what really irritate me is it’s still presented by both players and anet as a “different” game.

Obtena.7952:

The only part that you can claim is not casual friendly is the part that Anet implied wasn’t going to be from the outset: HoT. Much of this game is still as scrub-friendly as you can get. If you’re upset that HoT isn’t casual-friendly, you shouldn’t have bought it and if you didn’t buy it, then what are you complaining about? Anet has been catering to the casual community for 3 years now.

From where I sit, complaining that an expansion with challenging content for people that desired that increased challenge is not casual friendly because the challenging content exists in the open world comes off selfish and immature. We were told from the outset the intent of this expansion. If you want scrubby open world content, you already HAVE it. Furthermore, Anet added to that for three years.

I can’t think of a single reason why challenging content should it be shuttered away from Open World in dungeons, etc…

You do realize that telling people they should not buy things because they are “scrubs”, EVERYONE has a different skill set, some people can not get better at the game for what ever reason that is. So they’ve paid for HoT, so that means they have given there money to ANet. That then means they can give ANet feed back on the item they paid for, same as you. The more money ANet make, the more they can, in theory, spend on making new content for GW2.

Are you really telling people who want the game difficulty to stay as it has been for the last few years to not give ANet there money, and stick to the content ANet has already given them? If so I’d bet the people working for ANet hope people don’t listen to you.

You sound like they think you are super elite player and no one is better than you. that’s great, I’m really happy for you. As you said if you want challenging content it’s there in the form of raids, and high level fractles. why is it that is upsetting you so much about people wanting open world content to be relaxing?

personally, I found that HoT is quite challenging for Melee classes, but for my ranger it is easy. The challenge I faced with my Warrior and Guardian is gone, maybe it’s because I’ve played through the zones with 2 character’s already. Or maybe I got better.

Obtena.7952:

So what you’re telling me is that Casual players ignored Anet’s warning that HoT was challenging content, bought it anyways because they were desperate for new content and are now crying that they ignored Anet’s warnings and QQ about how hard HoT is? I got that right?

No. What we’re telling you is that Anet severely downplayed how “challenging” (read: grindy and annoying) the expac would be, because they fully intended for the casual majority of players to fund the change to the game design that would ultimately kitten them over.

Anet knew really well that if only people the expac was designed for would buy it, it would be a financial failure. Which is why a lot of informations were either downplayed, mentioned only after first preorder wave passed, delayed till the very last moments before launch, or just never mentioned at all.

I wouldn’t say GW2 has become hardcore overall. It’s mostly that the majority of past open world content was yawnmashbuttonsfacerollzergwanderlust.

HoT zones are the first time you need a group to do map completion (or you can be super skilled, but let’s face it, most la-dee-da explorer types are not super skilled at twitch mechanics or class strategy). And by super skilled, I don’t mean “good.” I mean really really good. You don’t solo champs on a timer, for example, with basic video game prowess. That’s the stuff of knowing your class inside and out, and getting timing down to a tee.

Previously, most of the “hardcore” content was either instanced or it was “off to the side” in this area that you don’t really need or want to think about unless you’re really invested. Teq, Jungle Wurm, and Dungeons… all either instanced or off the beaten path.

In HoT zones, there is no such thing as la-dee-da exploring. Mobs slam you with CC, burst you down like you’re in a PvP match, and generally aren’t happy about you having the gall to exist in the same universe as them.

Some will read this and think, “It’s not that hard. In fact, it’s easy for me.” And that may be true… for some of you. But for the la-dee-da folks that made up most of the pre-HoT open world crowd, it is a challenge and an ice-cold one at that. We’re talking faceroll world boss train and “hey, there’s a flower.. allow me to drag five wasps behind me while I go get it” caliber of average skill level.

Think of it like a spectrum, from 1 to 5, where 1 is super dee duper la dee da and 5 is I got a good deal on Newegg for my corsair mechanical keyboard, but I prefer red over brown, razornagamousekeybindsthirtythreepercentrepeatingofcourse.

The majority of primary focus open world players are probably somewhere in the 2-3 range. So yeah, HoT maps are a bit of a culture shock.

Always know your audience.

This game is so not hardcore.. Listen I get that SOME people might feel the game is too hard. But here is the rub..

1) People get bored easily by content that they can always complete.
2) To extend this content – you have to make the grind longer..

So GW2 has to find a balance between content creation (expensive)/challenge/repetition..

I think they have done really great here. So I would say – be careful what you wish for. Here is the problem with your scenario OP.

Easy content = more grind. More grind = less players. Less players = money lost.

Sure you can have content that is too difficult..

Then you have hard content = massive frustration. Frustration = less players. Less players = money lost..

I certainly don’t think Arenanet has done that. I see LOTS of players who don’t really like old GW2 who are back playing this game. I’d say that is mission accomplished.

The content might be too difficult for some people – but extremely few. I’d say less the 1 in 1000 video game players would have any difficulty in this game. This is still a very easy game for the most part. (I am not counting raiding or competitive PvP – those are more difficult.).

Hume.2876:

This game is so not hardcore.. Listen I get that SOME people might feel the game is too hard. But here is the rub..

1) People get bored easily by content that they can always complete.
2) To extend this content – you have to make the grind longer..

So GW2 has to find a balance between content creation (expensive)/challenge/repetition..

I think they have done really great here. So I would say – be careful what you wish for. Here is the problem with your scenario OP.

Easy content = more grind. More grind = less players. Less players = money lost.

Sure you can have content that is too difficult..

Then you have hard content = massive frustration. Frustration = less players. Less players = money lost..

I certainly don’t think Arenanet has done that. I see LOTS of players who don’t really like old GW2 who are back playing this game. I’d say that is mission accomplished.

The content might be too difficult for some people – but extremely few. I’d say less the 1 in 1000 video game players would have any difficulty in this game. This is still a very easy game for the most part. (I am not counting raiding or competitive PvP – those are more difficult.).

I don’t oppose hard content, but I oppose hard content in open world, especially the TD meta.

I don’t oppose hard content, but I oppose hard content in open world, especially the TD meta.

Eh. Sure they will tweak it if no one has completed it.. Or they could up the reward.. But hardcore HoT? You can’t be serious. This game is so casual – you don’t even need a group – just go help other people!

Hume.2876:

I don’t oppose hard content, but I oppose hard content in open world, especially the TD meta.

Eh. Sure they will tweak it if no one has completed it.. Or they could up the reward.. But hardcore HoT? You can’t be serious. This game is so casual – you don’t even need a group – just go help other people!

I don’t think most of the content is hardcore, but some people are using this as their excuse to defend current content.

Obtena.7952:

The bottom line is that Core GW2 is for scrubs … ANYONE can play it. That made everyone think they were good at the game, especially with a certain group of people telling them that using zerkers armor made them ‘good players’. Now something comes out that makes those people fail, they don’t believe it’s because they are bad since they are so pro at Core GW2. They just think it’s the game being too hard.

Not every area of the core game is for “scrubs”. Have you actually gone to Straits of Dev or Orr lately? They are pretty empty maps now, and because of that it’s pretty hard to get around let alone solo stuff. Its possible, but certainly not easy or “scrub” like. Dungeons and high level fractals are not for “scrubs” either. If you weren’t geared right and knew how to play people noticed, and it was just mostly fail. Spvp is not for scrubs. WvW might be considered for scrubs if you simply follow the herd. Really the only place(s) that would be considered “scrub” (bad word btw – would say casual), are mainly the open word zones excluding Straits and Orr (because risen are just that much of a pita). But there are quite a few open world zones, and they scale from super easy to pretty hard, so casual gamers can still enjoy a significant amount of content and progress their characters without forced grouping.

HoT does not really scale, and does not take into account low pop, like most of the core open world zones. VB starts at an Orr +1 difficulty and things just get more annoying from there. Maps require lots of players and coordination to successfully complete the metas, or some areas stay locked (note – this is very different than Orr, where areas held by an enemy at worst prevented getting a vendor with a skin. There were still ways to sneak in\run past those enemies and get that poi\vista\hero point if you were determined). Hero points are usually guarded by a champion that can’t be soloed. None of this is a huge problem if the population is high. But once people unlock that mastery or hero point they rarely going back. Why should they? This means newer players\casual players are pretty screwed unless they can and are willing to get a group to help, or are lucky enough to be on when a map meta is complete that unlocks an area for them. That’s a real shift compared to the core open world game mechanics, which did not flat out stop character progression without a high pop. And this has nothing to do with being a “scrub”. Anyone that does not see a sustainability problem with the HoT maps is not really thinking about the future.

Well well well, where should I start? First off, Arenanet you don’t get any more of my money. Second, your entire design of the new maps is trash. Third, I understand that Heart of Thorns was aimed towards group content, but it was never discussed that simply reaching the personal story objectives would be enough to make me hate the game. Finally, I have played less than 24 hours since launch of Spirit Vale because it really cemented the fact in my mind that none of this new content is meant to be fun. It is all meant to be annoying, everything is gated whether it is the elite specs, the story, the guild halls, everything……every single piece of new content is gated. I’m a pretty competent player, but you know being 28 years old, I’m not really going to adjust my play style to cater to your marketing strategy. I mean it was one thing when you removed item drops from story instances, it was one thing when you nerfed dungeons, it was also one thing when you charged an outrageous amount of money for a very limited amount of content and started incorporating “deals” in the gem store that are similar to “black friday sales” that are not reduced prices at all because they were never released at any other price (crystal arbiter) BUT it is a completely different thing when you ALSO remove the experience from story instances so that now I don’t feel as if fighting stuff matters in my own personal story. Suffice it to say, you have ruined Guild Wars 2 as a whole, screw Heart of Thorns that was botched from the get go. You seem to think that your 1.5 million new free to play players are going to carry you and that eSports is a viable solution to your sustainment as a relevant video game in the current scene. Well, let’s see if alienating the other 1.5 million of us that ACTUALLY PAID for your game is as good of an idea as you were led to believe.

HoT it’s not hardcore, it puts you out of the confort zone, and people freak out.
I say it has shaken the things nicely and I do really like that

eldrin.6471:

TD meta is a pushover compared to raids. and when did the people that played this game since launch ask for this crap? Anet decided to screw over there own player base to draw in a few raiders from wow.

Since when? People have been asking for raids or any other kind of small group / non-world encounter challenging group content since year 1. Where the heck have you been?

Next you’ll be saying no one ever asked for mounts or capes.

I do not find HoT as hard or kittenome people may find it. For many elements, I’d give it 9.5/10; eg, art and aesthetics, implementation of gliding that some other game did not do as well, elite specs etc.

That said, what I find disgusting is that ANET employees knowingly introduced mechanisms in the game to annoy, irritate and to disgust a portion of its playerbase whether by introducing time gating, or by forcing individuals sabotage group events for personal gains, or by making people do things that they simply don’t like to do.

I don’t exactly buy the idea of ANET forcing people to buy gems with some of these mechanisms. In fact, if that was their goal, they failed as far as I am concerned. I did not spend a dime on their store other than buying their 99 bucks expansion that gave 4k gems. HoT content did not make me convert/purchase any gems.

Personally, I believe, ANET lacks good project management and many of its teams work in silos. As consumers, we are witnessing the pitfalls.

Honestly I find HoT an enjoyable challenge, and like the gathering and collections it added, just finished my dark harvest collection about a couple days ago. I wouldn’t say it’s Grindy, no more so than vanilla GW2. I mean what were we doing before? Running dungeons, champ trains, and event trains to grind gold to buy whatever the heck we wanted, crafting wasn’t important to most people unless you wanted an ascended or legendary, but for the most part, exotics will more than cut it in all the content.

As far as mob difficulty, mobs in HoT are a vast improvement and I like how they encourage, and yes sometimes force, people to work together towards a goal as that’s 1. What an MMO is about, and 2. Gives a bit of a learning curve into dungeon mechanics, which leads into fractal mechanics, then ultimately raids.

Now though there are 2 main things I don’t like with HoT. First, the gold sinks, it seems like there are far more in the game now than before, and crafting is now no longer something nice to have on the side, it’s dang near mandatory. Now I got 500 artificer, tailor and 400 cooking, plus I have a whole stockpile of mats, but for those who aren’t so fortunate, it’s going to be a lot harder to level the necessary crafting professions, especially if you don’t have HoT, what with the loss of income from dungeons which I know a lot of people relied on, and that gold is still nowhere to be found. Plus you have guild halls now, which require so many materials to just get in a halfway operational order. I mean, you have to scrounge materials, to get the first tier upgrade which hardly does anything, which then let’s you scrounge more materials to get to the second tier which lets you finally use it.

Second, how hard ANET seem to be pushing the gem store, I mean how many releases has it had now since HoT launched, and what with the Bandit Bundle Blunder where you have to buy items you don’t necessarily want to get something you actually want. Add in the fact they are now just outright advertising the Gems to Gold and it just seems sort of…idk, underhanded? It’s just like saying “we know you’re having a hard time and are bleeding your gold dry, so whip out your credit card and we’ll help fix that!”

Draknar.5748:

eldrin.6471:

TD meta is a pushover compared to raids. and when did the people that played this game since launch ask for this crap? Anet decided to screw over there own player base to draw in a few raiders from wow.

Since when? People have been asking for raids or any other kind of small group / non-world encounter challenging group content since year 1. Where the heck have you been?

Next you’ll be saying no one ever asked for mounts or capes.

Indeed, there were some people that asked for mounts, but that always was an extremely tiny minority. Those that asked for raids were more numerous, but they were still an insignificant (numerically) group when compared to the rest of the community – albeit possibly the loudest one. I’m pretty sure that of all those groups, those that wanted capes outnumber two other groups combined by a huge margin.

Sicarius.4639:

Always know your audience.

This. And having an Xpac that fully changes the world is fine, IF you can cater to both (all) current types of players.

All they have done with this one is made one portion of the community happy while making the other miserable. And yes as a casual gamer with a life, I can go into the core game and still enjoy it like I always did, BUT then why did I pay for an Xpac?

Tommyknocker.6089:

Sicarius.4639:

Always know your audience.

This. And having an Xpac that fully changes the world is fine, IF you can cater to both (all) current types of players.

All they have done with this one is made one portion of the community happy while making the other miserable. And yes as a casual gamer with a life, I can go into the core game and still enjoy it like I always did, BUT then why did I pay for an Xpac?

To pay for eSports tournaments apparently

Qugi.2653:

Anet goal for GW2 is Esport.

It is funny and adorable they think a boring game mode like PvP will be E-Sport.
It is also sad that my HoT money potentially went into funding such a potential flop of a season.

Oh well, I nearly got my gliding mastered.

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

Sicarius.4639:

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

The people who watch streams are the cancer that needs to be purged from the internet. I mean seriously they contribute zilch to the community as a whole, whereas those of us that have actually supported the game have been kicked to the curb in order to encourage…..what? people to watch? this is so disturbing to me.

Sicarius.4639:

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

Oh yes, 4000 is a lot.
Maybe even one day, if ANet tries hard enough, they’ll reach numbers to rival WoodenPotatoes or Bog Otter. :P

Reach for the stars with that E-whatever. Chances are it will fall short and hit the Rocky Mountains instead.

The core game was absolutely pathetic in terms of difficulty, and still is. However HoT meta events and raids take this a bit too far, not because they are super difficult, but because ArenaNet returned to cheese mechanics like 2 hour map metas and timers on absolutely everything even though they should’ve learned by now.

Its like everything that was bad about the game in the last three years was presented to the head content designer and s/he said “Exceeeeeelent”.

Challenge is not cheap. Challenge is also not cheese.

This is also why eSports will fail, because it makes the classic PvP game mistake of being full of cheese. Most PvP matches are reduced either to dying in a few seconds, or living forever, and because of the boring game modes neither of them actually accomplish anything! When I think of game modes like WvW and PvP, I think massive sieges, complex battle tactics, epic adrenaline-pumping one-on-one battles where every single skill cast has a chance to determine the outcome of the fight.

Not… whatever this is. Playing PvP in this game is like playing Quake 3: Team Arena with simplistic, strange and half-broken combat mechanics. If they’re serious about eSports, hire some people who made PvP games before.

They seem to aim now at minorities of the playerbase. “Hardcore-”Raids? Minority. E-Sports? Minority. Hard Open World encounters with “Taxi-Design”? Minority plus the majority forced.

Dresdoe.7503:

Sicarius.4639:

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

The people who watch streams are the cancer that needs to be purged from the internet. I mean seriously they contribute zilch to the community as a whole, whereas those of us that have actually supported the game have been kicked to the curb in order to encourage…..what? people to watch? this is so disturbing to me.

Really calling people who watch streams cancer now ?

That’s mighty low, especially from what is supposed to be a friendly community. Shame that PvE players are being so toxic, instead of constructive and a staple part of the community that thrives to show their best sides…..

As for contributing nothing, really….can you tell me all the solo “causal” etc contribute anything more outside of constant complaints founded only in the basis that they are too stubborn or unwilling to learn/adapt ?

The whole anti eSports crusade is a sad joke on the communities part. You don’t have to like, understand or even remotely care why its a thing, but refrain from the petty and nonsensical and baseless attacks on people who enjoy something you do not.

the term mmorpg is incompatibile with esport.
a game where someone is better than another because of better stats (coming from gear, farm, grind, gold, etc) is not competition.

Sicarius.4639:

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

I’m assuming the final ‘!’ indicates this is sarcasm, which I completely agree with.

If it isn’t, well, okay.

No one would have complained if this was added as free season 3 content to the core game…

Swift.1930:

Glass Hand.7306:

I’m not a hard core player. While I play a good number of hours per week, I’m also a senior citizen and the days when I had the reflexes for twitch gaming are in the past.

I find Fractals to be a lot more ‘hard core’ than HoT. I’ve played all the new metas successfully including TD. I would not nerf it one bit.

Raids though – I know that ArenaNet is trying to expand the market for the game. I’m not sure this is going to work. It may end up creating two incompatible groups of players in the game causing the community to become less friendly.

You’ve succeeded at TD? I’m genuinely impressed. You’re the first person I’ve seen since release who has said that they’ve personally succeeded the TD meta. I’ve been in quite a lot myself (full maps, commanders, everything), but have never seen it even get halfway. Or heard about it succeeding at all (until now).

Some part of me always knew that people have managed it, but seriously this is the first time I’ve seen it said. So congrats!

Now I’m off into the corner to sob a little bit.

I’ve also had one success in TD since HOT was released. ONE. To say this meta event needs a nerf in an understatement. It’s funny how when the last zone meta event in on farm status yet TD is not.

I do not mind the higher difficulty much, at worst it’s mildly annoying if you want to get anywhere quickly.

Actually, that’s the real issue with HoT and thus GW2 in general that I have. There is nothing left to get quickly. Everything, I mean everything is a long winded slog nowadays.

Oh you want item X? Well here’s your collection. Better go grind out that mastery and buy an item that only have value as part of a collection with your slowly grinded map specific tokens! Oh right, you want to get item Y too? Well you need more tokens for that, look here is your collection for that.

You know what, we’ll throw in a lot of expensive materials for good measure too. Just to be sure you ain’t getting diddely-squat anytime this year.

Logging into the game these days is like checking in at work. All right, let’s see what’s on my to do list for today…

If you want to get anything in this game, as it is right now, you’re not supposed to have any fun anymore.

PVP back items final middle finger to casuals.

Blade.8497:

PVP back items final middle finger to casuals.

How?

Slowpokeking.8720:

Hume.2876:

This game is so not hardcore.. Listen I get that SOME people might feel the game is too hard. But here is the rub..

1) People get bored easily by content that they can always complete.
2) To extend this content – you have to make the grind longer..

So GW2 has to find a balance between content creation (expensive)/challenge/repetition..

I think they have done really great here. So I would say – be careful what you wish for. Here is the problem with your scenario OP.

Easy content = more grind. More grind = less players. Less players = money lost.

Sure you can have content that is too difficult..

Then you have hard content = massive frustration. Frustration = less players. Less players = money lost..

I certainly don’t think Arenanet has done that. I see LOTS of players who don’t really like old GW2 who are back playing this game. I’d say that is mission accomplished.

The content might be too difficult for some people – but extremely few. I’d say less the 1 in 1000 video game players would have any difficulty in this game. This is still a very easy game for the most part. (I am not counting raiding or competitive PvP – those are more difficult.).

I don’t oppose hard content, but I oppose hard content in open world, especially the TD meta.

I think the TD meta sets a good precedent. Not all super tough content should require formal grouping. It is likely intended for guilds to taxi people in taking up the entire map and complete it in an ultra organized fashion.

Dresdoe.7503:

Sicarius.4639:

Hey! Those 4000 odd people watching that stream think it’s highly valuable!

The people who watch streams are the cancer that needs to be purged from the internet. I mean seriously they contribute zilch to the community as a whole, whereas those of us that have actually supported the game have been kicked to the curb in order to encourage…..what? people to watch? this is so disturbing to me.

Whoa, that’s a bit much!

I do think the whole eSports push is a big mistake, but it’s not the viewers’ fault. In fact, they’re the only advertising gain that keeps this from being a total loss (so far as I know). The devs seem set on this course, and the money is spent either way. Those viewers and any word of mouth advertising they generate is the only real benefit we get from all this. Better them than nothing, and as I said it’s not their fault.

Sooner or later, with enough complaining and belly aching, ANet will Nerf the difficulty of HoT/Raids to make it all just a Casual-players Dream, get a full set of Legendary armor in a week or less, Ascended armor/weapons/trinkets rewards from Meta-events, ect.

As much as I hate to say it, Casual players are just as guilty as Hardcore players at getting content changed, and getting players to leave.

But EZ-Mode seems to be the preferred content nowadays with the majority of gamers, forcing the ones who actually want to be challenged to, kitten themselves in-game if they actually want to be challenged.

Slowpokeking.8720:

GW1 is the most solo friendly MMO I’ve ever played due to the henchmen-heroes, you can even run through some of the the elite missions after you finish.

In GW2 it was not the same, but most of the open world is still soloable, most the meta are quite easy with enough ppl. The dungeons don’t even provide you better gear, just different skins. Even the Ascended sets only provide slightly higher stats and they don’t just drop in elite dungeons. Overall, GW2 is a very casual friendly game as well. So the whole player base is mostly formed of casual players. Of course when HoT came out, they don’t like a lot of it. Sure most of the open world is still soloable, but you need to be much more careful, even normal mobs could kill you in secs if not careful, a lot of players don’t want to explore the world like that. Right now HoT is new, but after a while, people will move into new content, it would be a problem for the rest to get the HP/meta done. I don’t get why so many players say “It’s a MMO group up”

Before WOW, most of the MMO are 90%+ groups content, which is why they were all niche game. WOW made 50-60% of the open world soloable and became a huge success. Now even WOW has past its prime because people got tired of its group content, people demand quicker, easier games without a settled timer. I don’t think HoT is going to the right direction.

Ahhhhh, I remember those times. Running around in Kurzick and Luxon country trying to (LFG) The Deep and Urgoz dungeons. If tired of waiting for an SF tank and 55 BiP necro to join the party, I just go pick my heroes and vanquish maps in Hard Mode. The only difference is, the open world PVE map in the original GW game is only yours and players or npc’s in your party. You will never get to meet other players in the open world unless you are in cities, like LA and Kamadan. I kinda like meeting other players in the open world, helping out others attain a hero point, reviving a downed player and so forth. But, some content in HOT is just not doable if you don’t ask for help from anyone in the map or a guild you belong to. Some HOT maps will require you to have extra help to complete whatever goals you are trying to do. So, it is a toss up. The mastery system for HOT will be a very hard GRIND if you want the access NOW as soon as you stumble into something. But, if you play casually, stay away from places that would insta kill your character until help arrives, then you should be fine.

the issue casual players address is not “challenge”. it s repetitiveness, grind and boredom.
if something is so difficult that probably just 1 in 100players will succeed i’m ok to be that average 99%…maybe i would t even try it.

what i dislike is that here is not “challenge” to have bis..but just too long.
legendaries? i can tolerate it, it s more of a status symbol and QoL improvement.

but I absolutely can t accept that grind to ascended.
don t want to craft. nor grind gold to buy it. nor materials.
I want the bis gear to be given free or almost free to me, then start the true endgame being competitive with the others in any sector of the game, wvw or raids….just a matter of my players skill not my char stats or unlocked masteries.

this is why i bought gw2 in the beginning. easy exo, then just learn to play. and that s why i won t play it ever again.
no, ascended are not “not needed”. everything that has even +0.01 stat is BETTER. then it s required,

Qugi.2653:

Anet goal for GW2 is Esport.

They really need to give up on this pipe-dream and stop dumping money and resources into it. It’s just too imbalanced, broken and overly complicated to be in any way considered marketable as an e-sport. If GW1 taught them anything it’s that PvE is their cash cow, so throw your money at it.

E-Sport is moba territory.

It’s only chance of garnering any semblance of long term success and relevance is if it’s actually enjoyable for an audience to watch, more so those who don’t actually play the game. That is the core foundation of a successful “sport”, but watching any GW2 PvP game is enough to give non-epileptic viewers seizures and it’s just a giant indecipherable cluster-kitten to your average non-player.

I mean look at the success of mobas, CS, Starcraft. etc.

Easy games to get the gist of, most can be explained in under a minute, not overly complicated but extremely hard to master at the top tier. Most importantly due to their simplistic foundations they make great spectator e-sports. I’ve had many non-gamers watch tournies with me and really get into it, if not start playing the game after watching such footage.

Great “e-sport” games are first and foremost easy for the layman to understand.

GW2 will never get there. It’s just do bogged down by MMORPG mechanics.

I’m surprised ESL keep going with it.

fireflyry.7023:

I’m surprised ESL keep going with it.

I’m sure they’re being well paid for it, in some way.

Arenanet reads the forums, and from all the complaints i think it is clear that the community wants open world to be easy and relaxed. I guess we shall see in a few major patches if they listen, i am sure they will release new zones entirely too with patches for hot.

Hardcore content should stay in raids/pvp

Gathslan.1870:

Arenanet reads the forums, and from all the complaints i think it is clear that the community wants open world to be easy and relaxed. I guess we shall see in a few major patches if they listen, i am sure they will release new zones entirely too with patches for hot.

Hardcore content should stay in raids/pvp

Some of it should be but HoT is still reasonably challenging and should stay that way. It would be nice to see a formal dev response to the players insisting on nerfing difficulty, “If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Get good and play on!”

Gathslan.1870:

Arenanet reads the forums, and from all the complaints i think it is clear that the community wants open world to be easy and relaxed. I guess we shall see in a few major patches if they listen, i am sure they will release new zones entirely too with patches for hot.

Hardcore content should stay in raids/pvp

Hmmm… it’s far from clear that the majority wants everything easy/relaxed. Certainly there’s frowns about content as challenging/coordinated as the TD meta (or as tricky to find as a non-raid VB map), but it’s not the challenge people dislike so much as it’s the reliance on other players to be in the area and to care.

That said, the biggest concern I have about that kind of content is the sustainability. How many people will be there for metas/champion hero points in a few months? People will spread back throughout the world/gamemodes after they’ve finished hardcoring the new maps.

Agemnon.4608:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Hume.2876:

This game is so not hardcore.. Listen I get that SOME people might feel the game is too hard. But here is the rub..

1) People get bored easily by content that they can always complete.
2) To extend this content – you have to make the grind longer..

So GW2 has to find a balance between content creation (expensive)/challenge/repetition..

I think they have done really great here. So I would say – be careful what you wish for. Here is the problem with your scenario OP.

Easy content = more grind. More grind = less players. Less players = money lost.

Sure you can have content that is too difficult..

Then you have hard content = massive frustration. Frustration = less players. Less players = money lost..

I certainly don’t think Arenanet has done that. I see LOTS of players who don’t really like old GW2 who are back playing this game. I’d say that is mission accomplished.

The content might be too difficult for some people – but extremely few. I’d say less the 1 in 1000 video game players would have any difficulty in this game. This is still a very easy game for the most part. (I am not counting raiding or competitive PvP – those are more difficult.).

I don’t oppose hard content, but I oppose hard content in open world, especially the TD meta.

I think the TD meta sets a good precedent. Not all super tough content should require formal grouping. It is likely intended for guilds to taxi people in taking up the entire map and complete it in an ultra organized fashion.

No. Just no. What you are achieving with that is simply a way of forcing people to use a bad system to create a “pseudo instanced” version of a map. This is basically instanced content but you aren’t in a true instance. You have to prepare that instance which is is just unnecessarily annoying.

Agemnon.4608:

I think the TD meta sets a good precedent. Not all super tough content should require formal grouping. It is likely intended for guilds to taxi people in taking up the entire map and complete it in an ultra organized fashion.

Given that taxiing is so inefficient it should not be required ever. If they want to go that sort of route they have to allow players to see the instances and change to one they want.

morrolan.9608:

Agemnon.4608:

I think the TD meta sets a good precedent. Not all super tough content should require formal grouping. It is likely intended for guilds to taxi people in taking up the entire map and complete it in an ultra organized fashion.

Given that taxiing is so inefficient it should not be required ever. If they want to go that sort of route they have to allow players to see the instances and change to one they want.

Yep. Some people like empty maps, and others like (or need) full ones. It’s all very nice for the server to choose for us – if it knows who is who.

eldrin.6471:

TD meta is a pushover compared to raids. and when did the people that played this game since launch ask for this crap? Anet decided to screw over there own player base to draw in a few raiders from wow.

That’s easy, since launch. People have been asking for Hardcore since launch. It became Hardcore when ANet decided to make an expansion, because people have been begging for Hardcore since launch. There are a lot of casuals and just bads who aren’t going to like it, but then there are also a lot of other people who want to be challenged and have not been since launch. Those people have been begging for and demanding this, and this is the result of that desire.

If you do not enjoy hardcore, or even just challenging, then I pity you. It’s your own fault, though, for not paying enough attention. They said it repeatedly. They told you it was coming. They never claimed it would be business as usual, they said it would be harder. That the entire point was endgame content for all those people than felt Orr wasn’t endgame enough and thought Liadri was the bomb. You were warned. It’s not ANet’s fault if you missed the warning, didn’t understand it, or ignored it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

eldrin.6471:

TD meta is a pushover compared to raids. and when did the people that played this game since launch ask for this crap? Anet decided to screw over there own player base to draw in a few raiders from wow.

That’s easy, since launch. People have been asking for Hardcore since launch. It became Hardcore when ANet decided to make an expansion, because people have been begging for Hardcore since launch. There are a lot of casuals and just bads who aren’t going to like it, but then there are also a lot of other people who want to be challenged and have not been since launch. Those people have been begging for and demanding this, and this is the result of that desire.

If you do not enjoy hardcore, or even just challenging, then I pity you. It’s your own fault, though, for not paying enough attention. They said it repeatedly. They told you it was coming. They never claimed it would be business as usual, they said it would be harder. That the entire point was endgame content for all those people than felt Orr wasn’t endgame enough and thought Liadri was the bomb. You were warned. It’s not ANet’s fault if you missed the warning, didn’t understand it, or ignored it.

Correction. In my experience, most people were fine with the core game as it was. A group of people of indeterminate size wanted ‘hard’ content, but I don’t think anyone ever did a poll of the game population to find out how large that group was. Personally, I THINK it wasn’t all that large, just very vocal.

It’s nice to shout ‘everyone was begging for it’, but that statement is not substantiated by numbers in any way. WHAT percentage of the population wanted this? And how wise is it to have a core game that specifically aims at casual gameplay and then turn around and to make an expansion that does anything but?

And worst of all, the expansion does it rather badly. It’s truly unwise to have complicated map metas and then not allow people who want to make a serious effort at it to select their own map. It’s just about as stupid as it gets to shove a raid gateway into a zone that depends on active participation to get a meta done. And forcing people to constantly use a badly designed LFG tool to get NORMAL map progression done is beyond words.

If anything HoT is delivering on the promises of difficulty curve. When it says “group event” it means group event. if you can solo it because you’re good – props to you, but it’s supposed to be hard for a single player by design and require more then one soul to pull it off without major hiccups. I’d say that good design.

Terrahero.9358:

Maris.3164:

Nope, HoT maps aren’t solo friendly. What do you want Anet to do about it? “Hardcore” players have asked for harder content for two years or so. To nerf the content now would be letting down the players who wanted harder content and were also promised it by Anet. The very people who bought HoT because harder content was promised.

Should Anet make more casual friendly content then? They have already catered for casuals for 3 years now but sure, why not. When they have the time.

Honestly though, I wouldn’t say the actual content on the maps is hard aside from maybe King of the jungle in TD. Some or most of the content just isn’t soloable. Joining or creating a guild (maybe just for casual players?) isn’t a bad idea.

Hmm, its almost like when you cater to one kind of demographic that that demographic grows larger. Then you switch it up, charge people full price for an expansion that is suddenly tailored for the minority of players, and act surprised that people are kittened?

They released an expansion that went directly against what they’ve been building up over the years and hyped their game to be before it even came out. It’s stupid to say “well, you got yours now we hardcore player tiny minority deserve to get ours”, because the hardcore crowd doesnt pay the bills.
If all the “casual” players would up and leave, and just the “hardcore” players would stick around, i can promise you GW2 will be shut down before Q3 2016.

You are right, the majority of the players are casual.

However, everybody knew that HoT content would be slightly more challenging than the central Tyrian content as Anet was very much open about it. It wasn’t “suddenly” tailored to “hardcore” players, this was known all along. This is what was asked of them. Players demanded it and Anet delivered. I didn’t see anyone complaining back then when it was announced that the expansion content would be more challenging.

Furthermore I find it shortsighted and well, selfish to say ‘because we are the majority, we should always get what we want regardless of what others want.’ Anet is trying to cater to both types of players. I don’t see an issue with that.

I personally don’t think the content in HoT is really that hard. The difficulty comes in when you want to solo absolutely everything. You cannot and you should accept it. For random exploring and story all you need is one friend to help you out if you really are struggling.

Would it be too much of a trouble to ask a friend to join in and help with hero points? Or wait around for others to show up? I highly doubt people will stop running the events or doing the hero points on HoT maps anytime soon and there’s always someone willing to help if you do find yourself alone.