Guild Wars 2

Dungeons are one of the big things that makes a MMO and dungeons are also the thing PvE players enjoy the most.

PvE players already play Fractals a lot and as far as I know raids will be a weekly thing. (correct me if i’m wrong.) So all this does is give those PvE players less reasons to do dungeons.

Nerfing the dungeon rewards serves absolutely no purpose in my opinion.
What’s wrong with gaining money in dungeons? Isn’t that what dungeons are used for in 99% of the MMO’s?

We already haven’t had any new dungeon content in about 2 years (last one being Aetherblade path, which was great in design & difficulty but terrible reward wise cough see the issue here? cough) and now even the rewards will get nerfed?

This is a big slap in the face of the PvE players who enjoy doing dungeons and who would like to see new dungeon content in the future.

I’m not a hardcore dungeon runner myself, I enjoy doing a bit of everything in the game but honestly, i’m more annoyed at anet trying to get rid of dungeons. Shoving it away as if it was some kind of failed project they only want people to forget about. (Even though dungeons are one of the most successful aspects of the game.)

Whats wrong with farming dungeons? It’s what people do in a lot of MMo’s and people seem to quite enjoy that stuff. So I don’t see why farming dungeons in GW2 has to chance.

It would be nice if there would be more PvE content to do so players can actually choose what they find more enjoyable (and not decide what to do depending on what rewards the best.)

As someone who would have liked at least 1 new dungeon in HoT I am quite salty. (And yes I do enjoy Fractals regularly and I did enjoy the raid during the beta.)

They want fractals to replace dungeons kitten -man content, basically.

Edit: I didn’t know the number five was a naughty word…

Yes this is the feeling im getting.
I dont mind if anet shifts the money making to fractals as long as they keep giving people reasons to do other du geons like idk.. maybe add ascended mats or gear to dungeon merchants.

They know their new content will be a flop, so they’re gutting existing content to make it look better by comparison.

Dungeons were confirmed to be in maintenance mode quite a while ago with fractals being their focus. Dungeons simply weren’t popular enough to warrant further development, which is why they were dropped early on. They used to test various types of content through the living world releases, and by participating, you were voting for that content. Maybe there were also issues with the current dungeons since they were rarely fixed and also considering that the original dungeon dev was fired long ago.

Nerfing the rewards will likely just revert them to what they were originally, before they increased the gold reward to give a bigger incentive. Dungeons are too exploited and ArenaNet likely doesn’t want to waste any resources to fix them, so they took the simpler option.

That thought crossed my mind as well haha.
Honestly though, Dungeons, fractals & world bosses are the game’s endgame PvE content right now. Adding raids and the fractal changes with 1 dugeon and a world boss woulda been fine. Not give us raids, 50 more lvls of the sam fractals and nerf dungeons…
Feels like we’ll have less to do in HoT than we have right now when it comes to endgame PvE.
If any reward is unhealthy for the game and should get nerfed its the silverwastes farm.
But nope. It just feels like anet is being (i’m sorry) selfish and doesnt like dungeons so they try to sneak them out of the game, even though theyre the most successful PvE aspect in the game.

Healix.5819:

Dungeons were confirmed to be in maintenance mode quite a while ago with fractals being their focus. Dungeons simply weren’t popular enough to warrant further development, which is why they were dropped early on. They used to test various types of content through the living world releases, and by participating, you were voting for that content. Maybe there were also issues with the current dungeons since they were rarely fixed and also considering that the original dungeon dev was fired long ago.

Nerfing the rewards will likely just revert them to what they were originally, before they increased the gold reward to give a bigger incentive. Dungeons are too exploited and ArenaNet likely doesn’t want to waste any resources to fix them, so they took the simpler option.

Dungeons are probably the most popular PvE aspect in the game. Dungeons not being popular enough is just wrong.
All they did with giving every dungeon gold / path is force people to do more diffirent dungeons than just cof p1 to make money.

It seems all their PvE focus will be on fractals and raids, so they want you to be doing them more than anything which wouldn’t be the case if dungeons still gave the best rewards. Personally I’m looking forward to new content as I’ve always avoided fractals as they’re much longer than dungeons but that won’t be the case in the expansion. And TBH, the dungeons never felt that great anyway, certainly nothing like what WoW has.

Personally, I think path-selling, skipping, and the speed-zerk vs casual-whatever “class separation” are the main problems.

Dungeons are old content. They favor some classes and punish others creating balance issues. The same is true for new players vs old. Arenanet never rebalanced dungeons. Aetherpath is the most modern and is wildly unpopular because of its difficulty and lack of speed hitting both new and speed players.

Before anyone says it’s to counter the gold inflation. Why don’t they add more “non-gold” rewards to dungeons once they have reduced the gold?

Why don’t dungeons reward a new chest that has the same content as the “Lost Bandit Chest”? I mean you did a whole dungeon, some other people pressed “F” and walked from point A to B and gott thrown at with those chest. Why can’t dungeons give you some of that?

I always liked doing fracs coz the ascended stuff u get from it is nice ( too lazy to craft). The fractal skins are nice too..

And dungeons are indeed old content because anet doesnt update or balance them at all anymore. Thats all anet’s decision.
If they wouldnt have updated fractals it would be old content as well.

And the reason why people dont do aetherpath is coz the reward isnt worth the time and effort put in completing it.

But yes i do dislike the dungeon meta myself. I just hoped anet would try to change it instead of killing dungeons. And still, same stuff happens in fractals so I dont see the point.

it is a pretty stupid move,
“hey we’re making something new and we want players to play it!”
“shall we make it attractive to them so they WANT to play it?”
nah lets just ruin the alternatives so they have no choice.

Liewec.2896:

it is a pretty stupid move,
“hey we’re making something new and we want players to play it!”
“shall we make it attractive to them so they WANT to play it?”
nah lets just ruin the alternatives so they have no choice.

Pretty sure you don’t understand the motivation behind the move. This isn’t just about moving people from content, it’s about making it so the the old content isn’t so rewarding that it draws people from other content.

Face it, dungeons is one of the most profitable things to do in the game. There are people who run dungeons in my guild only when they need money. So the decision to move the rewards affects people that do stuff just for money first.

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Dungeons let experienced players with highly tuned builds make gold faster than the developers like. It is probably that simple and Arenanet does not want to fix the problems becaiuse of cost and priority.

You guys haven’t seen the new rewards in HoT yet, so do not assume if it is right or wrong on their move. Return to this subject after a month or two… Wait, never mind, everyone is busy farming new rewards. I’m gonna shut up now.

glenndevis.8327:

Dungeons are one of the big things that makes a MMO and dungeons are also the thing PvE players enjoy the most.

PvE players already play Fractals a lot and as far as I know raids will be a weekly thing. (correct me if i’m wrong.) So all this does is give those PvE players less reasons to do dungeons.

Nerfing the dungeon rewards serves absolutely no purpose in my opinion.
What’s wrong with gaining money in dungeons? Isn’t that what dungeons are used for in 99% of the MMO’s?

We already haven’t had any new dungeon content in about 2 years (last one being Aetherblade path, which was great in design & difficulty but terrible reward wise cough see the issue here? cough) and now even the rewards will get nerfed?

This is a big slap in the face of the PvE players who enjoy doing dungeons and who would like to see new dungeon content in the future.

I’m not a hardcore dungeon runner myself, I enjoy doing a bit of everything in the game but honestly, i’m more annoyed at anet trying to get rid of dungeons. Shoving it away as if it was some kind of failed project they only want people to forget about. (Even though dungeons are one of the most successful aspects of the game.)

Whats wrong with farming dungeons? It’s what people do in a lot of MMo’s and people seem to quite enjoy that stuff. So I don’t see why farming dungeons in GW2 has to chance.

It would be nice if there would be more PvE content to do so players can actually choose what they find more enjoyable (and not decide what to do depending on what rewards the best.)

As someone who would have liked at least 1 new dungeon in HoT I am quite salty. (And yes I do enjoy Fractals regularly and I did enjoy the raid during the beta.)

I totally agree. Its hard enough to make gold in this game. I personally really enjoy dungeons and I know many that do. I don’t understand this move on Arnets part. I do Fractals as well, but why alienate players that like dungeons? Seems they are shooting themselves in the foot with this. Forcing people to play the way they want us to is just wrong.

Dungeons were not the most popular pve content, open world stuff was.

John smith had said doing dungeons was not the most profitable activity anyway.

IMHO, dungeons here were terrible in design

The devs have stated that it was too difficult for them to change, modify and spruce up dungeons. Fractals provide much more flexibility for the them as far as work, design and maintenance goes.

Fractals are “dungeons” for all intent and purposes, but better designed and offer more variety to players in the long run.

glenndevis.8327:

What’s wrong with gaining money in dungeons? Isn’t that what dungeons are used for in 99% of the MMO’s?

Because when you earn Gold on your own, ArenaNet doesn’t make as much money from Gems.

Anet of today have a hard time making content appealing. So they have to go the other way when introducing new content – make everything else as unappealing as possible.

Simple, they don’t want people playing them as much or at all.
That’s what it means to deincentivize something.

I don’t understand this either. I can make just as much if not more farming silverwastes, if that’s the case why remove dungeon rewards? All its doing is making running a dungeon completely worthless. I enjoy running dungeons but if there is no incentive whatsoever (junk drops and no gold at end) why would I bother? Basically what this is telling me is they want us to do mindless farming (silverwastes). Just because you want fractals to be played more doesn’t mean you should kitten the stuff already in game. If you have to kitten base content in order for people to play the new stuff then the new stuff probably sucks because it cant compete with the old.

I’ll play the expansion, and enjoy the parts I like about it. But if their new motto continues turning into “Let’s kitten old stuff in order to get people to play what’s new”. This game will have devolved to be something I don’t want to spend time or money playing.

Kronos.2560:

I don’t understand this either. I can make just as much if not more farming silverwastes, if that’s the case why remove dungeon rewards? All its doing is making running a dungeon completely worthless. I enjoy running dungeons but if there is no incentive whatsoever (junk drops and no gold at end) why would I bother? Basically what this is telling me is they want us to do mindless farming (silverwastes). Just because you want fractals to be played more doesn’t mean you should kitten the stuff already in game. If you have to kitten base content in order for people to play the new stuff then the new stuff probably sucks because it cant compete with the old.

I’ll play the expansion, and enjoy the parts I like about it. But if their new motto continues turning into “Let’s kitten old stuff in order to get people to play what’s new”. This game will have devolved to be something I don’t want to spend time or money playing.

Silverwaste rewards actually create very little gold. They give you mats which you can sell. Ectos which you can sell. But you’re taking gold from other players. You don’t get much coin.

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

I realize that but that’s all dungeons have going for them. IF they drastically increase the rare/exo drop rate in dungeons then maybe it could work, but It’s been about a week since I’ve got a rare/exo drop in a dungeon, whereas I can get multiple in silverwastes in about 5 minutes?

I’ve brought this up in other posts, it DOESN’T matter how great the raid is, all of us players will blow through the pve content in less than two weeks. Leaving us what, one path of one raid? I’d like to know the percent of players that are level 50 fractals? Less than 5% I’d wager.

The game is not strong enough to strip players of one game type. My guild runs every game type, and not once have I seen a guildie get rich running AC/CoF. It’s an excuse, and a poor one at that, for them to kill content they don’t want to put manpower on.

People forget that when the game came out, dungeons offered very little reward and people complained about it. People forget that they asked ANet to offer better rewards with more challenging content. People forget that they asked ANet to nerf the zerker meta.

The PvE rewards aren’t being ended — they are moving from dungeons to other content, thus giving us better rewards for the (theoretically) more difficult content.

It’s going to take some getting used to and who knows if ANet’s implementation of this will be as good as they seem to think it is.

tl;dr it’s too soon to tell if this will be good for the game or not; it’s not too soon to say that it fits in with what players have been asking for (in a “be careful what you wish for” sort of way).

Swagger.1459:

Dungeons were not the most popular pve content, open world stuff was.

John smith had said doing dungeons was not the most profitable activity anyway.

IMHO, dungeons here were terrible in design

The devs have stated that it was too difficult for them to change, modify and spruce up dungeons. Fractals provide much more flexibility for the them as far as work, design and maintenance goes.

Fractals are “dungeons” for all intent and purposes, but better designed and offer more variety to players in the long run.

I’m curious what IS the most profitable activity. Silverwastes?

Yep. Silverwastes.

If that’s their argument, then how come there are ZERO, yes zero new fractals with HoT?

Celtic Lady.3729:

They want fractals to replace dungeons kitten -man content, basically.

Edit: I didn’t know the number five was a naughty word…

its actualy the a then s followed by the 5 that spells behind so thats why its naughty

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Yep. Silverwastes.

If that’s their argument, then how come there are ZERO, yes zero new fractals with HoT?

Seeing as most people were not playing them and the changes were made to encourage them, I do not think they are prioritizing creating new ones at a time when they seem to be crunching pretty hard.

That aside, I hope they clue us in on their Fractal roadmap before the close of the year.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

People forget that when the game came out, dungeons offered very little reward and people complained about it. People forget that they asked ANet to offer better rewards with more challenging content. People forget that they asked ANet to nerf the zerker meta.

The PvE rewards aren’t being ended — they are moving from dungeons to other content, thus giving us better rewards for the (theoretically) more difficult content.

It’s going to take some getting used to and who knows if ANet’s implementation of this will be as good as they seem to think it is.

tl;dr it’s too soon to tell if this will be good for the game or not; it’s not too soon to say that it fits in with what players have been asking for (in a “be careful what you wish for” sort of way).

While I agree with you, I still think its a really risky if not stupid thing they’re doing by changing dungeon rewards.

The only valid reason for reducing dungeon rewards is to counter inflation but then again, there are other ways to do this.

My biggest issue is that if anet does it wrong, it might kill dungeons and if that’s the case it will “leave behind a wasteland of content” which Anet seems to be against. So i’m both surprised and sad that this is their solution.

But yeah, I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

glenndevis.8327:

Dungeons are probably the most popular PvE aspect in the game.

Source, or is this just false-consensus effect?

I thought standing around and hitting 1 on a world boss was …..

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Celtic Lady.3729:

They want fractals to replace dungeons kitten -man content, basically.

Edit: I didn’t know the number five was a naughty word…

The filter on this forum is hysterically overactive.

You can’t even use the word a’ssess.

Or the phrase “isn’t’ it?”

All I see here is people jumping the gun waaaay to early on this one, we don’t know how big the nerf is, we don’t know how rewarding the content in HoT is, we literally know nothing! This is coming from someone who runs almost all dungeon paths almost daily, it is 100% of my income, and even I can see that this is all just mad QQ over something that we all know nothing about.

Please give Anet a chance before raging and calling them greedy pigs.

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation. So it’s important to keep the total amount of gold within the game, including the gold tied up in the exchange, growing slowly if at all.

It’s analogous to printing money. The more money circulating in the entire economy, the less it is worth. The less it’s worth, the more things cost.

The difference is instead of government controlling how much money is printed, players control how much new gold is entering the game by doing those activities that reward the most actual gold, not gold you get from selling items via the TP, actual in-game coin.

So all that ANet can do is either create more sinks, raise the cost of existing sinks, encourage greater use of those sinks or reduce the amount coming in from various sources (NPC sales, direct rewards).

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation.

If it was about the economy and inflation they would have added repair costs back or replaced some of this new gold with items like in silverwastes.

IndigoSundown.5419:

glenndevis.8327:

Dungeons are probably the most popular PvE aspect in the game.

Source, or is this just false-consensus effect?

It’s an estimated guess, hence why I said “probably”

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation.

If it was about the economy and inflation they would have added repair costs back or replaced some of this new gold with items like in silverwastes.

John said it himself, armor repair was too small of a sink to matter in the big scheme of things. It wasn’t a deterrent to not dying, it was an annoyance to new players.

And I will talk slowly and in caps so this comes through loud and clear.

ANET DOES NOT WANT PLAYERS TO PLAY DUNGEONS AS FREQUENTLY AS THEY DO TODAY.

It’s not just about the gold coming in, they will be moving some of that to other game areas, they don’t want players playing them just for the rewards. It’s okay for the tokens but that’s it. Rest of you bums, go do the stuff we are willing to work on rather than the stuff we think is broken beyond repair but simply can’t get rid of for story reasons.

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation. So it’s important to keep the total amount of gold within the game, including the gold tied up in the exchange, growing slowly if at all.

And how is buying Gems and then doing currency exchange less of an impact than running a dungeon?

Scalpels.2809:

Behellagh.1468:

ferdi.1452:

Vayne.8563:

Dungeon rewards, the cash part, is what they’re changing. Every time someone does an explorable mode dungeon 1 gold 24 silver is created out of thin air.

That’s bad for the economy.

How’s that bad for the economy?

Because it injects “new” gold into the economy. If it’s not drained away fast enough more gold in the economy leads to classic inflation. So it’s important to keep the total amount of gold within the game, including the gold tied up in the exchange, growing slowly if at all.

And how is buying Gems and then doing currency exchange less of an impact than running a dungeon?

Because the gold someone gets from the exchange was first put there by other players who earned it in game. “New” gold isn’t created. It’s gold that’s already been in the game.

Behellagh.1468:

ANET DOES NOT WANT PLAYERS TO PLAY DUNGEONS AS FREQUENTLY AS THEY DO TODAY.

It’s kinda sad when a company wans their players to play their content to a lesser extent.

Well at the end of the day, if they split up the rewards evenly between all of the PvE gametypes and regularly update dungeons then i’m fine with it. It would be nice if people could actually CHOOSE what they do to get their money instead of being FORCED to do dungeons just because they make the most money.

Still sucks for those who prefer dungeons though.

Honestly, Anet doesn’t have to change the rewards. All they have to do is implement character model collision and it will break the stacking meta. Once the stacking meta is broken, dungeons will take an hour plus to complete instead of the fifteen minutes they take now.

Swagger.1459:

Fractals are “dungeons” for all intent and purposes, but better designed and offer more variety to players in the long run.

Strongly disagree with this. Fractal maps are often tiny, almost claustrophobic. Dungeons are nice big maps, and as a result dungeons feel different. You can really go around exploring in dungeons, and I think more people actually want to because dungeons actually make an attempt to tie into the rest of the gw2 world. Consider arah, we see huge structures that go all the way from the surrounding maps coming into arah. We understand why there are undead. We are helping researchers explore the ancient civilizations. The entire dungeon fits into the world. Compare that to cliffside or Jade maw.

I also tend to think that dungeons have more room for creativity. For example, I remember a record video where a mesmer would portal the other 4 party members from boss to boss. The mesmer never fought, just running while the others fought, and the other 4 never ran, just constantly fighting while the mesmer ran. Pretty smart. I don’t see stuff like that in fractals.

Derenek.8931:

Honestly, Anet doesn’t have to change the rewards. All they have to do is implement character model collision and it will break the stacking meta. Once the stacking meta is broken, dungeons will take an hour plus to complete instead of the fifteen minutes they take now.

I replied to your thread in the dungeons forum, but I will reply to it here too. Are you aware that stacking doesn’t raise group dps?

TERraTRIIx.3194:

All I see here is people jumping the gun waaaay to early on this one, we don’t know how big the nerf is, we don’t know how rewarding the content in HoT is, we literally know nothing! This is coming from someone who runs almost all dungeon paths almost daily, it is 100% of my income, and even I can see that this is all just mad QQ over something that we all know nothing about.

Please give Anet a chance before raging and calling them greedy pigs.

I quote: “Dungeons will still drop things as well as they will still have some gold, they will just have much less gold.”

Much less gold seems quite a lot IMO.

So you cant make money unless you buy HoT.
That and so FTP players dont run dungeons on 10 free accounts.

thrag.9740:

Swagger.1459:

Fractals are “dungeons” for all intent and purposes, but better designed and offer more variety to players in the long run.

Strongly disagree with this. Fractal maps are often tiny, almost claustrophobic. Dungeons are nice big maps, and as a result dungeons feel different. You can really go around exploring in dungeons, and I think more people actually want to because dungeons actually make an attempt to tie into the rest of the gw2 world. Consider arah, we see huge structures that go all the way from the surrounding maps coming into arah. We understand why there are undead. We are helping researchers explore the ancient civilizations. The entire dungeon fits into the world. Compare that to cliffside or Jade maw.

I also tend to think that dungeons have more room for creativity. For example, I remember a record video where a mesmer would portal the other 4 party members from boss to boss. The mesmer never fought, just running while the others fought, and the other 4 never ran, just constantly fighting while the mesmer ran. Pretty smart. I don’t see stuff like that in fractals.

You can still run your traditional dungeons because they are not deleting them.

Fractals are getting a revamp so we will have to see what they look and “feel” like. Also, the better technology mumbo jumbo the devs are using will allow them to do more with fractals than with dungeons, so things will be better in the long run for players.

Your Mesmer example is precisely what the devs want to avoid. What you consider “smart” gameplay is basically exploiting unintended loopholes. Skip to boss then kill and collect over and over is not healthy for the game.

Swagger.1459:

You can still run your traditional dungeons because they are not deleting them.

That is true, but I have some questions for ya.

If world bosses didn’t drop loot would you do them after the first time?
If a mining node didn’t give mats and was only for the fun of mining them would you continue doing it?
If Silverwastes had no drops/shovels and was just for “the fun of being there” would anyone still do it?

Same applies to dungeons, they give kitten drops. The gold at the end was their only worth so if you take that away you get what? Something that is for “the fun of being there” but gives no loot. And like the questions above of “are you going to continue doing it past the first time” is a big NO.

Same applies to dungeons, they give kitten drops. The gold at the end was their only worth so if you take that away you get what?

well, one reason they give bad drops is that noone kills the enemies that give drops cuz theyre more interested in finishing to get the gold

JUUUST SAAAYIN

Kronos.2560:

Swagger.1459:

You can still run your traditional dungeons because they are not deleting them.

That is true, but I have some questions for ya.

If world bosses didn’t drop loot would you do them after the first time?
If a mining node didn’t give mats and was only for the fun of mining them would you continue doing it?
If Silverwastes had no drops/shovels and was just for “the fun of being there” would anyone still do it?

Same applies to dungeons, they give kitten drops. The gold at the end was their only worth so if you take that away you get what? Something that is for “the fun of being there” but gives no loot. And like the questions above of “are you going to continue doing it past the first time” is a big NO.

Well there is a difference between no loot and reduced loot…