Guild Wars 2

rchu.8945:

But screwing the veteran players with their current pricing plan for pre-purchase is beyond silly, what happen to the common business practice of rewarding your loyal customers?

How are they screwing you personally? You either believe the expansion content is worth the price, and buy it, or you don’t, and don’t buy it.

Omocha.4931:

’cause they are paying for the base game twice

If you really think this, please answer my question here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Stop-Calling-HoT-an-expansion/page/2#post5172920

Alphard.6529:

phys.7689:

its a question of do you want to buy the new standalone, as well as, is the amount of new content worth the price of the standalone game.

The new standalone is priced at what Anet think their new “expansion” (or whatever you want to call it) content (+maybe future living world content) is worth. Whether you agree to this is up to you to decide.

its not the price that they think their new content is worth, because they are not offering the core game for free, or the new content separately

well i should change that.

its the price they think current people will pay to get the new content (the fans)

and its the price they think new players would be willing to pay to get everything that guild wars has to offer.

the truth is, they are right in that the fans are willing to pay more for less. Where they may have miscalculated (maybe they didnt) is how much more they are willing to pay for how much less.

phys.7689:

the truth is, they are right in that the fans are willing to pay more for less.

How are veterans paying more when they’ve been playing the game for so long? The extra they paid is for the extra they played! When the game gets discounted, does everyone suddenly complain they paid more for the same thing? If it was okay for new players to get the game for $10 when most people paid $40, why is it now suddenly objectionable that new players now get the base game for $0?

Alphard.6529:

phys.7689:

the truth is, they are right in that the fans are willing to pay more for less.

How are veterans paying more when they’ve been playing the game for so long? The extra they paid is for the extra they played! When the game gets discounted, does everyone suddenly complain they paid more for the same thing?

they are objectively paying more for less.
we arent talking about past purchases, or what value they got out of the old purchase.

we are talking about right now.

its like if you want to buy new wheels for your rollerskates. you go to the roller skate store, and they guy will only give let you install the wheels if you pay the price for the whole new rollerskates.
and if he installs it, he keeps the new shoe part and your old wheels.

they objectively get less for the same price because they already own much of what is being sold.

that is the main reason the marketing is trying to get people to believe the idea that others are getting the core free, because it obscures the fact that someone who already owns the game is not getting the same product.

Alphard.6529:

phys.7689:

the truth is, they are right in that the fans are willing to pay more for less.

How are veterans paying more when they’ve been playing the game for so long? The extra they paid is for the extra they played! When the game gets discounted, does everyone suddenly complain they paid more for the same thing? If it was okay for new players to get the game for $10 when most people paid $40, why is now suddenly objectionable that new players now get the base game for $0?

Because it’s nothing like what you mention.

Someone bought GW2 for $60 at launch and has been playing it for 3 years. A newcomer that buys the game this year at a discount for $10 has joined the game a couple of years later and that’s why they get the better price. That’s ok.

What happens here is that both the veteran and the newcomer are buying the same product, at the same time, at the same price. They are both pre-purchasing the standard edition of Heart of Thorns for $50. But, the newcomer gets more.

Alphard.6529:

If you really think this, please answer my question here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Stop-Calling-HoT-an-expansion/page/2#post5172920

I’m not outraged.

Also, I’ve payed for GW1 and GW2. And I still didn’t rage. I also bought ME1 and ME2… Not the smallest outburst of rage. Same goes for Fallout, NWN and so on.

But you know what the difference was with all of them?! No one tried to sell me the lie that GW2 will be an expansion to GW1, or that ME2 requires ME1 to play.

Catching a sweet deal, like getting a bundle of Fallout 1 to Vegas for the price of F3 is one thing. Catching a “sweet deal” advertised by Anet for the past 4 months (“HoT will need this hard discounted GW2 base”) is another.

Come out and come clear: “GW2 needed a major revamping and as much as we appreciate your support throughout these years (the hell they do!), it’ll have to be relaunched in order to support the plans we have for the future expansion of the post-awakening Tyria story”. Sadly, they’d have to actually include a lot more content or promise more free content (nvm that, not with the current trust crysis they’re going through).

I for one, would pay $50 for a refreshed bug free, balanced, logical (mechanics wise) GW2, with meaningful stories (not the rushed one, riddled with sterile placeholder cutscenes), that only adds 1 extra class and opens the whole mainland of Tyria west of LA.

I won’t swallow their lie about the expansion, nor am I going to accept half of the former Maguuma Jungle as the only bonus content to this new base game. Replacing a few lines of Trahearne’s changes little (the cutscenes themeselves are beyond senile and dull). Adding the Halls should’ve been a duty, not a bonus. Same goes for balancing skills and mopping up bugs (the latter is still probably at “we’re looking into it” phase anyway).

All in all, same game with very little extra content, twice, falsely advertised.
Not an expansion, a rework.
They’re not happy to not be payed twice for delivering what they’ve promised once.

Why isn’t this an “expansion”? Check the wikipedia page. This is actually an “expandalone”.

What else was an expandalone? Factions and Nightfall. So let’s compare those.
(skills, weapons, and armor skins had some overlap that would take a lot of time to sort)

If you bought Factions without previous GW1 Core:
character slots: 4
regions: 0 Core + 4 New
missions: 0 Core + 22 New
classes: 6 Core + 2 New
guild halls: 0 Core + 4 New

If you bought GW1 Core without Factions:
character slots: 4
regions: 6 Core + 0 New
missions: 25 Core + 0 New
classes: 6 Core + 0 New
guild halls: 8 Core + 0 New

purchased both:
character slots: 6
regions: 6 Core + 4 New
missions: 25 Core + 22 New
classes: 6 Core + 2 New
guild halls: 8 Core + 4 New

Now HoT:

If you bought HoT without previous GW2 Core:
character slots: 5
maps: 100% Core + 100% New
events: 100% Core + 100% New
classes: 8 Core + 1 New
guild halls: 0 Core + 2 New

if you bought GW2 Core:
character slots: 5
maps: 100% Core + 0% New
events: 100% Core + 0% New
classes: 8 Core + 0 New
guild halls: 0 Core + 0 New

purchased both:
character slots: 5
maps: 100% Core + 100% New
events: 100% Core + 100% New
classes: 8 Core + 1 New
guild halls: 0 Core + 2 New

Now I’ll also address the “bundle” concept.

When I bought Nightfall and GWEN I ended up getting a bundle because the two separated were more expensive than the bundle. The bundle included Factions, which I already had.

So what was I to do with this extra Factions code I had? I gave it to a friend to get him into playing. After which he bought Core and GWEN.

However with HoT the Core game “bundled” isn’t really there. I can’t give that to a friend. I can’t try to buy a non-bundled experience. Right now if I convinced a friend to buy into the game they would have access to more content than I do. Yes, yes, I have the whole Season 2 Living World content, but guess what, these new players can buy that whole or a-la-carte. Just like veteran players that missed out on logging in. However I can’t a-la-carte the “bundle”.

It’s imbalanced and completely reasonable that a fan base would react poorly to this pricing and marketing.

If the veteran players were awarded something even as simple as $10 worth of gems (the lowest price charged for GW2 Core) we all likely would have paid the $50 price tag.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

briggah.7910:

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

Good point. Anet only allow themselves to run the scams here.

briggah.7910:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

That would probably happen, but that would still make anet money, as they use the gem store and feel the need to upgrade.

Real reason they don’t want it to happen is xause they don’t want there to be a core version. They don’t want new people running around withou Hot. Many of the features of hot weren’t designed to work well if you don’t have hot.

I understand why they do it the way they do it, the big problem ia they created a price point that will leave a lot of current players without much desire to buy the new one.

Basically for the everyone will have hot, that anwt prefers, they need to make older users feel like getting HoT is a no brainer.

Anet devs said themselves that HoT will not have a typical amount of expansion content because it focuses mostly on creating a foundation for new mechanics. In other words, don’t expect expansion-worthy content but pay as much as usual or even more.

RabbitUp.8294:

briggah.7910:

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

Good point. Anet only allow themselves to run the scams here.

hehe

I don’t see them scamming anyone. If anything they are trying to bring more players into this game which in the long run would benefit everyone. If more people support game it would allow them to create more content for everyone.

If you guys dont think its worth it dont buy it. Its really that simple, they will see that their pre-order numbers arent that great and possibly adjust the price.

We have no clue right now what all is going to be in the expansion. The only people who should be mad about anything at all should be the people who bought the game recently and are now asked to pay another 50 for the expansion. Those who have been playing since the beginning really need to shut the kitten up saying “we want this or that because your giving away the core game for free and i have been playing since the beginning”.

That is the epitome of entitlement, thinking you should get something because you have been playing longer. No, just no. You got your monies worth from the core game, you got legendaries, you got your WvW in, you got your pvp in, you got your storyline, dungeon clears and everything else. People that recently purchased the core game then the pre-order released are the ONLY people who should be saying anything on the matter. If anything the expansion should be 40 bucks for them now or get 10 bucks of free gems, or a free skin from the gem store.

Dont pre-order if you dont think its worth it, its really that simple. Wallets show more than a bunch of people whining on the forums. I think its worth it, but thats my opinion, so i bought it.

Run Away PLZ.7639:

Does it expand upon the core game? Yes

HoT is the core game now.

You have the old GW2. And the new GW2 called HoT. The moment you buy HoT. You don’t expand your old GW2. They replace your old game with the new game and move your characters to it.

CrimsonDX.4821:

It is an expansion whether you like it or not. Get over it.

But you can’t play expansions without the thing it expands on. So if you buy HoT… And you can play. It’s not an expansion. It’s the new version of the game.

briggah.7910:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

That is not a very good argument, what’s to stop people from selling their accounts now ? You can’t just assume everyone is going to break the rules. Sure some will try and sell it, there is no doubt about that. The majority would probably give it to a friend or family member to spark interest, some might just keep it for themselves. I have 5 copies of the game, I don’t need 5 copies, I rarely use them all, but I bought them, they are mine and I have no desire to “try and sell them” to someone else.

Good morning by the way !

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.

That is not a very good argument, what’s to stop people from selling their accounts now ? You can’t just assume everyone is going to break the rules. Sure some will try and sell it, there is no doubt about that. The majority would probably give it to a friend or family member to spark interest, some might just keep it for themselves. I have 5 copies of the game, I don’t need 5 copies, I rarely use them all, but I bought them, they are mine and I have no desire to “try and sell them” to someone else.

Good morning by the way !

Yes you can’t assume everyone will break the rules but lets face it many people would and many people do. Gold sellers ring a bell? Ever get spammed while chilling in the pvp lobby? Those spammers are all breaking a rule and they will continue to break the rules because most of those have scammed others and are using someone else’s account.

Better yet giving out a free version to people would just create more gold selling accounts. If the gold sellers find out they can also get a free code for the core they would jump all over it just to have more accounts to scam others with.

I’m with you I wouldn’t scam anyone but really you can’t say people won’t try to make money off of something they get for free. I would point out greed but I already got a few infractions for saying some people are just greedy. Ops.

Also those that try to sell their accounts now, they did have to purchase the game to begin with so that money went to anet.

Morning!!

You’re right, I actually thought of gold sellers as I was driving to work. There are ways to put roadblocks in place though, many other games have done so with their free trial accounts and free core editions as well.

Its expanding the current game ergo expansion.

BrooksP.4318:

Its expanding the current game ergo expansion.

you are not able to expand the game without buying the full product, ergo not an expansion.

phys.7689:

BrooksP.4318:

Its expanding the current game ergo expansion.

you are not able to expand the game without buying the full product, ergo not an expansion.

Some aspects of HoT are added in on non upgraded accounts. Such as WvW map, specializations, some new items(i think old legendary crafting), and possibly more.

phys.7689:

BrooksP.4318:

Its expanding the current game ergo expansion.

you are not able to expand the game without buying the full product, ergo not an expansion.

Whether you buy it or not, the game will expand.

Run Away PLZ.7639:

Does it expand upon the core game? Yes

Not if you dont have it.

Spurnshadow.3678:

It isn’t. If a player with no version of GW2 buys it, they get the whole game. That’s not an expansion. It also costs the same to existing players as players who don’t own the game. That’s not an expansion.

ArenaNet define HoT as the GW2 expansion pack. Please see the pre-purchase page:
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns?_ga=1.16880561.907650097.1433487203&cid=90:5::::Global:40:::
Not the customers……
I copy and paste it here: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

hapvis.7059:

Spurnshadow.3678:

It isn’t. If a player with no version of GW2 buys it, they get the whole game. That’s not an expansion. It also costs the same to existing players as players who don’t own the game. That’s not an expansion.

ArenaNet define HoT as the GW2 expansion pack. Please see the pre-purchase page:
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns?_ga=1.16880561.907650097.1433487203&cid=90:5::::Global:40:::
Not the customers……
I copy and paste it here: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the world as a whole decides what language means, definately not a corporation, unless they make up new words, then they can define them as they see fit.

language is about the agreed upon standard definitions/ logical definitions. Not what some one trying to get you to buy something tells you it means.

I would like to clarify that my post about promises was an attempt to lighten the mood a bit. When they make a media event out of it, it’s more than a promise.

As for what to call it, how about an Enhancement? Or Upgrade?

Palador.2170:

I would like to clarify that my post about promises was an attempt to lighten the mood a bit. When they make a media event out of it, it’s more than a promise.

As for what to call it, how about an Enhancement? Or Upgrade?

its a new version, sold as stand alone game. update implies you can just get an update

Palador.2170:

I would like to clarify that my post about promises was an attempt to lighten the mood a bit. When they make a media event out of it, it’s more than a promise.

As for what to call it, how about an Enhancement? Or Upgrade?

or an “expandalone” as I already mentioned in my TLDR post about the wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

BrooksP.4318:

phys.7689:

BrooksP.4318:

Its expanding the current game ergo expansion.

you are not able to expand the game without buying the full product, ergo not an expansion.

Some aspects of HoT are added in on non upgraded accounts. Such as WvW map, specializations, some new items(i think old legendary crafting), and possibly more.

HoT qualifies as an “expandalone”. just like Factions and Nightfall before it. As I stated above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

Alphard.6529:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.

I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:

1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.

2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.

Are you outraged already?

no, i’m not outraged.

because I can also buy another copy of the game at that time, for the same price as
anyone else.

forget changes over time. I’m not angry that a game I bought for £50 is now free.
I’m angry that only certain people can buy it at the current price.

so if they wouldn’t let me buy a (second) copy when it went on sale – a more accurate comparison – then yes, I would be outraged.

HoT doesn’t even exist yet as anything more than a concept… We have the next living story episode (which we were going to receive for free) labeled as a “beta”… and we’ve got an overinflated pre-purchase scam that essentially boils down to a kickstarter to fund the production of an actual expansion (which doesn’t even exist yet).

-Elite Specializations
-Revenant
-New Zone (if it’s anything like DTop or SW that’s countless of repeatable hours)
-HoT exclusive masteries that will open up new gameplay like Master Lore & Master Exploration)
-New Legendary Weaps
-New Ascended skins
-Full Guild Hall Access

For me that’s a whole lot of kitten to do so I’m very happy to call HoT an expansion especially in the GW2 universe of content releases.

Guys, please stop taking ANet’s word at “ultimate truth” value. It doesn’t make much sense with the FAQ kitten . Nor if you consider how many times they said to fix this and that with zero effects throughout a couple of years. “ANet said it’s an expansion” sounds as sad (and yet funny) as possible.

@TheBlackLeech: LW is not free, actually. My friend forked out the cash to play it. As for HoT, to me, it’s frustrating to see ANet repackage GW2, give it a green tag and ask for the money again: so what?! they’ve fixed their core game and almost have the final product – the way it should’ve been from the start – and are calling it an expansion?!

@Achrisos: the way people percive the value of a product can differ a lot. I for one, wouldn’t pay 350 gems for a rock, nor $50 for a map 3 times bigger than SW (or 20 times, same thing). 2-3 VW event chains in one day and I need at least a couple of days away from that place. The rest however….

• Revenant – can’t play it, ‘cause ANet went stingy mode on character slots and, after “fixing” the problem myself – I swear I felt like in a f2p about it – and getting all classes, HoT doesn’t bring the bonus slot with the extra profession
• Specializations?! it’s not only that, it’s a new leveling system altogether and if it nullifies the time I’ve spent setting up my toons (3 map completions later it’s no longer that fun to do things again and again), it’s gonna be something I loathe, no matter how good the new system will be. Also, if the new system won’t offer more build setups and if it won’t be carefully balanced by the Lazynet team more often – gw1 style – it won’t matter much.
• skins! yaaay! wait. Nevermind. It was raining skins in the game lately. As for the ascended gear, a good friend of mine told me that Anet promised not do add the extra tier of gear at all – invalidating the efforts people made at that time to get their exotics. And just as a fun fact, we’ll still only have the Soldier’s Aquabreather from Teq as end game underwater gear, right?!)
• the legendary weapons are a joke. When you can buy it off the TP that item has, basically the value of a mini rock in terms of prestige. And the way you’d get the materials to craft it?! RNGesus much?! “We don’t want our players to grind”? ahahahah!
• Guild Hall should’ve been there from the very start, but NC rushed the product to the shelves.

What’s the price for the base game now? Can i buy the base game only? If i can’t then the price for base game is included in the 50usd HoT.
It’s just anet trying to see if people are willing to buy a 2 in 1 feature pack patch for 50usd. Cos after this there will be no base game/expansion differentiation. It’s all just a 50usd patch ^^

Alphard.6529:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.

I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:

1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.

2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.

Are you outraged already?

No i’m not outraged.
But let me ask you something else: what is the only one really necessary thing, what every MMO needs?

think, think, think

If your answer is: Players! Then you right.
You can have the cheapest MMO in the wold, if no one plays it.
Short-window sales actions are for “get more ppl into the game”. And that is asolutely legit and needed.
Reconsider the mega-server change in GW2. It was a clear sign, that the game don’t has enough players. Action had been taking: mega-server, cheep seeling etc.

For a Game like GW2 (resp. any other mmo with no sub-fee (f2p or b2p)) there are two type of players:
1) who is playing the game but not buy anything from ingame shops
2) who is playing but spend real money in ingame shops

Both way: you pay for playing. Either with your money or with your time (sometimes both)
An MMO need both type of players: 1. to have an ingame polulation, which make the game living and active and 2. to get revenue to pay the employees and devloping the game.

A gaming company have to take care about this. For mee it seems that the person who decided the current sheem for HoT, lost his view about the “big picture”.
Yes, there is always one person (not a team, not a company, that is coming after) who made the suggestion/decision.

What i’m really interested to know: what this person was thinkig in the case of HoT.
“oh …we do not get enough money from existing players, so lets make HoT to a full game and sell it for everyone for the same price!” ???

Well, as it seems the majority of the playersbase not agreed with this strategy and now just waiting with pre-purchase. Let us see who can hold his breath longer. ANet or the players.

Channel.9402:

What’s the price for the base game now? Can i buy the base game only? If i can’t then the price for base game is included in the 50usd HoT.
It’s just anet trying to see if people are willing to buy a 2 in 1 feature pack patch for 50usd. Cos after this there will be no base game/expansion differentiation. It’s all just a 50usd patch ^^

The Core Game is available, but only through third party retailers. Anet themselves are currently only selling HoT with the core game “as a free gift”…

Here’s another way to look at it.

You go to the pub and order $5 beer.

20min later they run a special, $2 for a beer.

Are you mad? No you buy another beer.

The kitchen opens and the pub starts selling $5 burgers with a free beer.

Someone walks in and buys a burger and gets a beer.

You walk up and order a burger, but you don’t get a beer because you already bought one that day.

Are you mad?