Taking Grind to a whole new Level
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
No, the problem is we all want everything right-the-hell-now. And then we get bored when we do get everything and want more.
The problem, gentle reader, is that we’re our own worst enemy.
The old system made me do dungeons, fractals and a bunch of pve map completion I had no interest in if I wanted a legendary; there was no “play the way you want” unless your “want” was their pve content.
Reading the new system it looks like there will still be some of that, but there might be a lot more currency based stuff that is tradable. If that is true, and it is reasonably balanced, it would be a huge win for playing the way you want. I’d love to be able to play WvW a ton and sell the WvW currency I don’t need to PvE guy or PvP gal who are doing the game modes they enjoy and buy their excess currencies.
Now, I fully expect to be completely disappointed when the specifics are released, but for now I’m mildly optimistic. One person’s gold sink is someone else’s ability to play the content they like if the currency is tradable both directions.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters?
Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons). What exactly is coming with HoT that is more grind than old similar content?
Other than no new fractals and no new dungeons (they add 3 raid wings though) the rest of HoT is similar to what we already have.
Unless you say the rest of the game is also a grind of course then I pass. Unless you only call dungeons/fractals non-grind fun pve content then I don’t see on what basis you claim that HoT will be all about grind.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters?
Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons). What exactly is coming with HoT that is more grind than old similar content?
Other than no new fractals and no new dungeons (they add 3 raid wings though) the rest of HoT is similar to what we already have.
Unless you say the rest of the game is also a grind of course then I pass. Unless you only call dungeons/fractals non-grind fun pve content then I don’t see on what basis you claim that HoT will be all about grind.
What you said are not completely grind-free, because they are all gated. Even traveling freely in the new maps require you to unlock gliding. Guild Hall decorations will be a grind. Raids in other MMORPGs are targeted towards people who can consistently get time for 8-hour raid nights every week, and Anet hasn’t said how raids in HOT will be different, so that people who spend a moderate amount of time on gaming will be able to enjoy it.
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
Think about the first xpac to GW1. We were given Canthan, and there was really no need to make anything gated.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2.
What does player time have to do with grind? And please are you saying that GW1 didn’t have a grind?
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
Look, it’s pretty obvious you don’t have a solution to your problems – and there’s nothing anyone can do for you if that’s the case.
If you can’t be more specific about what you want (by this, of course, I mean outlining things you want to see in-game, being quite a bit more detailed about what you consider “grindy”, etc.) then there’s no point in continuing this conversation.
Though I suspect there never was. You seem to have your mind made up already, and I strongly doubt anything short of you being placed in charge of the game would change it.
All the best, etc. -Sid
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2.
What does player time have to do with grind? And please are you saying that GW1 didn’t have a grind?
When you have only a moderate amount of time for gaming, you don’t need grindy stuff to keep playing a game, as long as developers focus on new content instead of focusing on creating new grindy stuff. Of course, when developers focus on creating new grindy stuff, there won’t be enough new content for players who only play moderately.
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
It’s called Horizontal progression, also it’s kind of how lots of different RPGs work, you get more tools, more of the map opens up. Something players have been asking for a lot.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
Factions content was also gated… Unlike Prophecies all maps were locked until you progressed the story first. If Factions was so huge, why do you think they see the need to gate all further zones from players and not allow them to run to end-zones like in Prophecies? Similar principle with HoT now.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
Look, it’s pretty obvious you don’t have a solution to your problems – and there’s nothing anyone can do for you if that’s the case.
If you can’t be more specific about what you want (by this, of course, I mean outlining things you want to see in-game, being quite a bit more detailed about what you consider “grindy”, etc.) then there’s no point in continuing this conversation.
Though I suspect there never was. You seem to have your mind made up already, and I strongly doubt anything short of you being placed in charge of the game would change it.
All the best, etc. -Sid
I don’t have any problems. The problem is that Anet turned against their own manifesto, possibly due to the loss of key people. I only suggested them to re-consider such a choice. They claimed their game to be innovate, and that they are doing something evolutionary and totally different from other MMORPGs, and there won’t be any typical MMO traps in GW2. All this turns out to be false with HOT release. If I could solve problems for them, then my pay scale would be in the million dollar range at least.
Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters?
Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons). What exactly is coming with HoT that is more grind than old similar content?
Other than no new fractals and no new dungeons (they add 3 raid wings though) the rest of HoT is similar to what we already have.
Unless you say the rest of the game is also a grind of course then I pass. Unless you only call dungeons/fractals non-grind fun pve content then I don’t see on what basis you claim that HoT will be all about grind.
What you said are not completely grind-free, because they are all gated. Even traveling freely in the new maps require you to unlock gliding. Guild Hall decorations will be a grind. Raids in other MMORPGs are targeted towards people who can consistently get time for 8-hour raid nights every week, and Anet hasn’t said how raids in HOT will be different, so that people who spend a moderate amount of time on gaming will be able to enjoy it.
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
Think about the first xpac to GW1. We were given Canthan, and there was really no need to make anything gated.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
Your basically eqating ANYTHING that isnt straight up immediately handed to you as grind. Your basically calling any form of progression grind. You cited guild hall decorations for kittens sake. Since when is making the guild hall “pretty” something players must do?
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
It’s called Horizontal progression, also it’s kind of how lots of different RPGs work, you get more tools, more of the map opens up. Something players have been asking for a lot.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
Factions content was also gated… Unlike Prophecies all maps were locked until you progressed the story first. If Factions was so huge, why do you think they see the need to gate all further zones from players and not allow them to run to end-zones like in Prophecies? Similar principle with HoT now.
The ratio of the amount of content in Factions to the amount of content in Prophecies is certainly much higher than the ratio of HOT to vanilla GW2. Wouldn’t you have more things to enjoy in HOT if it created the same percentage of new stuff?
Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters?
Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons). What exactly is coming with HoT that is more grind than old similar content?
Other than no new fractals and no new dungeons (they add 3 raid wings though) the rest of HoT is similar to what we already have.
Unless you say the rest of the game is also a grind of course then I pass. Unless you only call dungeons/fractals non-grind fun pve content then I don’t see on what basis you claim that HoT will be all about grind.
What you said are not completely grind-free, because they are all gated. Even traveling freely in the new maps require you to unlock gliding. Guild Hall decorations will be a grind. Raids in other MMORPGs are targeted towards people who can consistently get time for 8-hour raid nights every week, and Anet hasn’t said how raids in HOT will be different, so that people who spend a moderate amount of time on gaming will be able to enjoy it.
Well, having them gated isn’t a big deal if you just think about the effort required to unlock them, which, I agree, isn’t forbiddingly high. However, what is worrisome is why they have to make such content gated. The only reason that I can see is that there isn’t going to be enough content, so they have to make them gated.
Think about the first xpac to GW1. We were given Canthan, and there was really no need to make anything gated.
Don’t you agree that a new xpac that more is like GW: Factions would have been more enjoyable than HOT?
Your basically eqating ANYTHING that isnt straight up immediately handed to you as grind. Your basically calling any form of progression grind. You cited guild hall decorations for kittens sake. Since when is making the guild hall “pretty” something players must do?
Well, let’s see if HOT will receive a higher review rating than vanilla GW2, to see if gating stuff is truly the most amazing thing in gaming industry ever.
The ratio of the amount of content in Factions to the amount of content in Prophecies is certainly much higher than the ratio of HOT to vanilla GW2. Wouldn’t you have more things to enjoy in HOT if it created the same percentage of new stuff?
It depends. 90% of Factions was useless filler that you do once and then forget it even existed while HoT is supposed to have more value.
Well, let’s see if HOT will receive a higher review rating than vanilla GW2, to see if gating stuff is truly the most amazing thing in gaming industry ever.
Well considering your using the word gate synonymously with progression. Yes progression is the big “amazing” thing in the industry. Particularly with the genre of rpg games which guild wars 2 happens to be
Well, let’s see if HOT will receive a higher review rating than vanilla GW2, to see if gating stuff is truly the most amazing thing in gaming industry ever.
Reviews by who? I doubt any of those reviews will only depend on “gating” but rather judge HoT as a whole.
So know I see, your problem with HoT is the Mastery system and how you’ll be required to unlock things like Gliding before you do certain things in a zone. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, it gives much more replayability on older zones, you pass and follow your story, then once you get a higher mastery you can go back and reach places you couldn’t before. That’s how a lot of good RPGs actually work and it’s a great way of adding progression in HoT, progression that doesn’t affect old zones, by invalidating builds and content. The alternative would’ve been a level cap increase, new gear tiers or adding a bazillion of new skills that cause different kinds of problems.
legendary weapons are by no means getting more grindy, not at all. The only person that would think this is the case is one that would buy his precursor with a credit card. No offense. Getting 700 to 1500 gold for a precursor is at least as grindy as collections, and collections are interesting gameplay of wich you can check progress and have fun imo. Grinding gold is not.
Mastery system is account based, so far less grindy then most things we have seen until now.
Seriously what do you expect that the expansion would just give you things? what’s the fun in that? We’ve had no progression for about 2 years now so honestly kitten.
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
(edited by Fox.3469)
So know I see, your problem with HoT is the Mastery system and how you’ll be required to unlock things like Gliding before you do certain things in a zone.
No, what is worrisome is the less than usual amount of content hidden by gating. If they gave us a new continent and doubled the number of fractals, I wouldn’t worry at all even with mastery.
At this stage, my biggest concern is that Anet might keep shrinking the size of their development team, and keep the fewest programmers necessary to create grindy stuff. This will eventually kill GW2.
(edited by MyriadStars.5679)
Taking Grind to a whole new Level
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
It depends on whether the OP was using the new legendary acquisition system as an example and talking about grind in HOT in general, or whether he’s talking about legendary items only. If it’s the latter, then I admit that my post is not entirely focused on his opinion.
In fact, I cannot really think of any new pve content (except the new profession) in HOT that is grind-free. Can you give an example of a new, fun pve content with great replayability in HOT that is completely grind-free for existing characters? None…there isn’t even going to be a new fractal instance even though they claim fractals are the 5-man content that they will focus on in the future. Therefore, I think Anet has given up their original manifesto, and they should not indicate otherwise when talking about HOT releases. Creating more grind and more layers of grind definitely has higher priority than creating new, fun content at the moment.
I’m just about sick of hearing what people DON’T want. You got a better idea for what should be coming down, then let’s hear it. But your negativity and condescending attitude is doing no favors for my own.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
(It’s okay. I fully expect you to ignore the question. I know your type.)
I see how this is going. Originally, when Anet tried to develop MMO games that respect players’ time, lots of players who have a busy real life flooded to GW1 and later GW2. When GW2 became popular because of this, many players who have much, much more free time also came to play GW2, and think that those who enjoyed the original GW1 and vanilla GW2 should quit and that Anet should focus on creating stuff for players who play all day.
What would make me happy? Being true to their original manifesto would certainly make me happy. I can understand the difficulty, because Anet lost many key people, including 2 out of the 3 co-founders. Therefore, they no longer have the man power to keep true to their original manifesto. If they decide to make HOT grindy because they don’t have enough people at the moment to create new, fun content, then we can certainly suggest them to hire more people and avoid doing this for the next xpac after HOT.
Gw1 was extremely grindy. Far more than this game. If you only ran around Guild Wars 1 and killed things and did a mission here or there, then no it wasn’t grindy at all. However once you got into getting the titles or the elite armor then it has grind to end all grind. Vanquishing all the maps in hard mode. Getting all maps unfogged, which was basically going along s l o w l y with your nose pressed against the map borders. Getting enough gold to buy alcohol, sweets, etc or killing enough gargoyles or undead or whatever each and every day to buy gifts from the Huntsman. Getting to level 20 by death leveling, over and over and over….. again. Getting millions of faction. And that was just the start of all the grind. I think you are looking at Guild Wars 1 grind with extremely rosy glasses because it was a massively grindy game once you stopped being casual.
50/50 HoM. GWAMM.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Well, masteries can both be vertical and horizontal progression.
Horizontal as it unlocks regions, poi or something else…“cosmetic” ones.
Vertical as it makes your char able to reach and “win” endgame content – raids,
just as if it was AR or any other numeric parameter.
Well, masteries can both be vertical and horizontal progression.
Horizontal as it unlocks regions, poi or something else…“cosmetic” ones.
Vertical as it makes your char able to reach and “win” endgame content – raids,
just as if it was AR or any other numeric parameter.
The only thing they said you would really need for raids is gliding, that’s it. Which you should really unlock for the new zones anyway.
The rest of the raid can be beaten without the rest of the masteries. Just having the additional masteries makes it EASIER since you’ll be able to exploit the benefits around the boss raid.
until you can buy them from the tp
the new legendarys are account bound and cannot be sold. only the original legendarys will be able to be brought from tp still
It is when people start running out of things to do – because legendary weapons are also niche – which means some of them will remain forever unloved by the general public because of their design. So ‘weird’ design coupled with the fact that it’s not relevant to most people means weapons like Quip are by design flawed as being a long-term goal.
I think we shouldn’t consider all legendaries equal – and just look at the ones that actually get made.
Sure, but again I dispute the concept that Legendaries are a necessary long term goal for a significant amount of players. People want them while they don’t have them, but if they had them, I don’t think it would significantly reduce their engagement in the game. Most players are not actively chasing Legendaries, it is not a primary goal for their progress, it’s more like something that just happens eventually. They could hand everyone Legendaries, and I seriously doubt that it would result in significant numbers of people leaving the game or playing less.
Except there’s a great amount of psychic comfort associated with a legendary item – the fact that it will always be best in slot – which means more than just a fancy hat. It means that when and if new tiers of gear will be added ( and let’s not forget Anet has already done this once – the precedent is set – and they’ve also said they might add more in the far future- so the door is open) your legendary gear will still be the best.
That would be an even larger betrayal of the players’ trust than the release of Ascended weapons. I would expect that ANet releasing a higher tier of gearing would result in magnitudes more rage-quits than if they gave everyone free Legendaries.
Feeling value in the “evergreen” status of Legendaries only comes with a lack of faith in ANet’s promise to not raise the gear tier further.
I didn’t stumble onto it – I made it but what I meant is not 100% of my play time was dedicated solely to making it – I took time for other things that didn’t matter from a building a legendary perspective – such as PvP and whatnot.
Hmm. Well my experience was, for the first year or so, I put relatively zero effort into earning a Legendary. I got World completion because I wanted World Completion. I accumulated various mats incidentally to playing. I was collecting and forging sets of rare weapons, hoping that a Pre might come out, but I wasn’t buying or crafting them specifically for that purpose, I just used the ones I found natively. Then at some point, I just decided “why not?” I had enough bits on hand to cover most of the costs involved, bought a precursor, spent about a week clearing Twilight Arbor twice daily, and bam, Flaming Unicorn cluster bombs. All told I spent maybe 7-8 hours over two weeks that were deliberately focused on creating the Legendary, and that’s out of around 3000 hours over three years. If those two weeks of my play had been erased from history, it wouldn’t even be a blip on the experiences I’ve had.
Because tier 1 legendary weapons are a farce when it comes to being a “status symbol” – soon after release it became abundantly clear that a lot of people simply bought theirs and never worked for it.
At that point legendary weapons already took a huge hit regarding what they should have been.
And yet, the game’s been going strong for three years in that state. It was recently voted the second best MMO of all time by MMORPG.com, and that’s pretty good considering that the #1 spot is inevitable.
It’s not about bad or good role models – it’s about selling as much of your product to as many people as possible.
I think it’s possible to have solid profits without going to the dark side. You don’t need to embrace evil to be successful.
Just because an item is digital doesn’t mean it doesn’t take resources – time – the ultimate resource is what it ultimately all boils down too – just like real life tangible goods digital goods also take time. Every resource a real item requires to manufacture can be ultimately boiled down to the time involved.
Of course, nobody’s downplaying the work that they put in, but the distinction is, if a craftsman spends hundreds of hours making a watch, then only one person can have it. Conversely, if an ANet artist spends hundreds of hours working on a Legendary weapon, then one person could have it, or ten, or a thousand, or a million, and it makes no difference in the time spent making it. If that item can make a million people happy rather than just a hundred, then why shouldn’kitten
Look at how the gem store operates : Amazing finisher sale – buy them now before they’re removed from the gem store – only to add them later to BLC drops and have them available that way – this is an artificial scarcity stunt. And it works.
And it’s “evil.”
The more people do the content the more the feeling of “that’s where it’s at” diffuses through the player base.
Sure, but nobody benefits if that is a lie, if the feeling of “that’s where it’s at” diffuses about an area that nobody actually likes. What benefits the game is if the most number of people are HAVING FUN, not if they’ve been lured into an activity that they do not enjoy. You keep giving reasons of how their behavior is beneficial to raids, as an activity, not in why benefiting raids would actually benefit players.
The more people that do the content the easier it is for people to find others to go with.
Yes, which is great for people that want to do that content, but not great for those who would rather be doing something else. Why should those players make themselves available at the whims of those who enjoy raiding?
Developers should not be “promoting a certain activity.” Rather, they should figure out what activities the players actually enjoy, and work to develop those activities, whatever they might be. If players tend to avoid a given activity, the solution is not to try and bribe or trick them into it, the solution is to figure out why they don’t enjoy the activity, and if it’s possible to fix that problem (like by making Fractals shorter to run) then they can do that, and if the problem is impossible to fix, then they should just abandon that activity and spend their time on more popular ones.
The only thing that is actually better for developers is when the majority of players are engaged in activities that those players enjoy doing, not that they are doing what the developers would like them to do.
If it’s the best farm -players will play it regardless for the farm if only for that. Look at CoF P1 repeat farm before dungeon rewards were changed – do you think people farmed that for the gameplay?
Ideally they would spend more time balancing out reward systems so that there is no “best farm” by any significant margin. Obviously there will always be something slightly more efficient than the others, but the difference should be so negligible that nobody would bother with activities that they did not enjoy, or see reason not to do the stuff they did enjoy.
But if it takes a sufficiently long time to reach the " got the loot – never again" situation then that content would have paid off the amount of developer time it took to design.
Yeah, but then you get into the problem that if it takes that long, then more casual players are on the treadmill way too long, and you have too many players who are “playing for the loot” well after their enjoyment of the activity has worn off. People playing just because they enjoy it should be plenty of time to “pay off the work” on the activity, and if it’s not, then they either should have made the activity more fun, or spent less time on it.
Too many is variable and subjective – the best measure of too many is to just note at what number of repeat the majority of the people who did it give up at – that number is Y and X must be slightly smaller than Y to obtain maximum efficiency out of development time.
But “giving up” typically comes well after “stopped having fun.” An activity where few people gave up before reaching the peak goal is not necessarily a “success,” if most people stopped having fun fairly early in the process buy felt dragged along by the specific loot.
This is the core issue – you think people care about the happiness of others – which you might do – but most people do not – most people care about THEIR happiness and the happiness of a few close others ( family, friends, significant other) – most people do not care about the happiness of other unrelated, unknown individuals – especially ones that they only meet virtual representations of in a game which they play for their own enjoyment.
And that’s why it’s the developer’s responsibility to encourage better, to reject players that only think about themselves.
It would if people suddenly decided the Incinerator is awesome and a lot of people would want it –
Sure, demand would increase if demand would increase, but that’s not what we were talking about. I’m saying that demand would not increase just because supply fell, that if it became much more rare and “exclusive,” I don’t believe player demand would rise significantly.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
If someone asks a waiter for a glass of water, and the waiter brings a hose and funnel and pours a gallon of water into the customer’s mouth, does the customer have no right to feel that he did not get what he asked for? The methods currently proposed seem on the right track for what people were asking for, but it seems to miss the spirit of what people were asking for.
The current proposal is particularly excessive when talking about the same Legendary weapons that have been in the game for three years now.
Let’s cut the crap and get to brass tacks. I’ve already heard what makes you UNHAPPY. What would make you HAPPY, and how, specifically, do you think it should be implemented? -Sid
I mentioned it up thread, but ideally what I’d like to see is for them to take the currently proposed Precursor tracks, and maybe it so that you only need to complete 50-80% of each track in order to unlock the relevant Precursor. Then, if you do the remaining portion, you would get certain specific materials that are needed to finish off the Legendary, like getting the Gift of Lightning for Bolt.
(1)Guild Hall claiming is done once so I doubt you’d call that a grind, (2)the map wide events are similar to any other map in the game and it’s hardly a new type of grind, (3)the story instances obviously, adventures, any new jumping puzzles they might add, (4)the Raid instance (not different than any of the other dungeons).
(1)Perhaps, but once you have the hall there does seem to be grind associated with upgrading it (not that I mind too much). (2) I already found them pretty grindy in beta, but we don’t know how their reward structure will play into things. My assumption is that they will be similar to DT/SW, in that you’ll be expected to repeat them numerous times to unlock some meta reward. So far they don’t seem nearly as fun as either of those zones. (3) probably not grindy, sure. (4) It’s pretty much assumed that players will have to grind these raids to get the rewards they’re looking for.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
“Just having the additional masteries makes it EASIER since you’ll be able to exploit the benefits around the boss raid.”
Again, vertical progression.
Not mandatory (additional masteries, not a certain minimum level which is necessary), but gives advantage in some way.
(edited by Kevan.8912)
Legendaries are not some shiny toy that everybody gets as a participation award, Legendaries are a very difficult and hardcore thing to obtain, and a big part of that is dedicating yourself to completing certain content
Tell that to my friend who came back to GW2 after 2 years and got Spark off a world boss. He has less than 1000 achievement points and barely plays the game… Getting a legendary is expensive or luck based, there is nothing hardcore about it at all.
(edited by Atharian.7092)
The fact that others WANT Twilight and like it makes it appealing to people.
Not quite. The fact that they, themselves want and like twilight is what makes it appealing to them. Not the fact that other people want it. It’s the Moot that sets the “desirability price” for rarity and “legendary status”. Twilight is worth more because it ist simply so much better looking. Well, that and the fact that one weapon is meta and other isn’t of course.
Which actually supports more Ohoni’s point than yours.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Well, let’s see if HOT will receive a higher review rating than vanilla GW2, to see if gating stuff is truly the most amazing thing in gaming industry ever.
Reviews by who? I doubt any of those reviews will only depend on “gating” but rather judge HoT as a whole.
So know I see, your problem with HoT is the Mastery system and how you’ll be required to unlock things like Gliding before you do certain things in a zone. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, it gives much more replayability on older zones, you pass and follow your story, then once you get a higher mastery you can go back and reach places you couldn’t before. That’s how a lot of good RPGs actually work and it’s a great way of adding progression in HoT, progression that doesn’t affect old zones, by invalidating builds and content. The alternative would’ve been a level cap increase, new gear tiers or adding a bazillion of new skills that cause different kinds of problems.
people keep comparing the mastery system to classics like castlevania, metroid, zelda. Its not analagous at all. Those games were based around exploration and finding things in order to progress, and get access to new areas.
not based on racking up experience.
killing 1 million octarocs wasnt going to progress you very far in an old rpg.
heck even exp based rpgs used monsters to be the check on progress, and specific goals or story points to be the gates for abilities/exploration.
Not to mention old rpgs are designed so that exp comes naturally as you go through the story/dungeons etc. This is designed so you must repeat things to get far.
I understand why they did it, however its not like metroid or castlevania, or an old school rpg at all. And honestly i think they should have stuck to cosmetic/convenience gains, not hard gates.
grind for unlocking new charachter animations
grind for unlocking exp buffs, running speed buffs
grind to unlock bestiaries
grind to unluck minis
grind for unneeded special abilities
grind to unlock long jumps to get to a new map? ehhhhh I mean if the grind is not noticeable thats fine, but if your gonna be doing the equivalent of silverwastes or old orr for karma. Its kind of a bad model.
A lot of it will come down to the degrees, and how gated you feel/how much grind to alleviate it. But yeah the concept alone isnt really a great one.
Well, let’s see if HOT will receive a higher review rating than vanilla GW2, to see if gating stuff is truly the most amazing thing in gaming industry ever.
Reviews by who? I doubt any of those reviews will only depend on “gating” but rather judge HoT as a whole.
So know I see, your problem with HoT is the Mastery system and how you’ll be required to unlock things like Gliding before you do certain things in a zone. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, it gives much more replayability on older zones, you pass and follow your story, then once you get a higher mastery you can go back and reach places you couldn’t before. That’s how a lot of good RPGs actually work and it’s a great way of adding progression in HoT, progression that doesn’t affect old zones, by invalidating builds and content. The alternative would’ve been a level cap increase, new gear tiers or adding a bazillion of new skills that cause different kinds of problems.
people keep comparing the mastery system to classics like castlevania, metroid, zelda. Its not analagous at all. Those games were based around exploration and finding things in order to progress, and get access to new areas.
not based on racking up experience.
killing 1 million octarocs wasnt going to progress you very far in an old rpg.
heck even exp based rpgs used monsters to be the check on progress, and specific goals or story points to be the gates for abilities/exploration.Not to mention old rpgs are designed so that exp comes naturally as you go through the story/dungeons etc. This is designed so you must repeat things to get far.
I understand why they did it, however its not like metroid or castlevania, or an old school rpg at all. And honestly i think they should have stuck to cosmetic/convenience gains, not hard gates.
grind for unlocking new charachter animations
grind for unlocking exp buffs, running speed buffs
grind to unlock bestiaries
grind to unluck minis
grind for unneeded special abilitiesgrind to unlock long jumps to get to a new map? ehhhhh I mean if the grind is not noticeable thats fine, but if your gonna be doing the equivalent of silverwastes or old orr for karma. Its kind of a bad model.
A lot of it will come down to the degrees, and how gated you feel/how much grind to alleviate it. But yeah the concept alone isnt really a great one.
I totally agree. In GW1: Factions, I didn’t mind going through the missions to reach new maps, because it had a great story and the missions were fun. If gating were done in this way, it would be nice.
Look at WvW season 1 – when they announced “super special secret reward at the end” – how many non-WvW players flooded WvW in order to farm their achievements and get that reward – and they didn’t even know what it was – they didn’t know if they would want it or not – but the fear of missing out motivated them.
The sheer numbers alone forced regular WvW ( long before EOTM) into a karm-train state and it didn’t stop until after about 2 weeks when most PvE players had finished their farm.
I was one of them – and it worked.
Yes, it did. Short term. Then not only WvW population dropped to levels lower than before tournament., but many people dropped out of game completely (some, because they didn’t consider the rewards to be worth the effort they did, Some, because they were angry at Anet for “letting noobs in” to their playground, which killed their fun, and some just got burned out).
There was a reason why participation required for rewards dropped down for season 2 and dropped again for season 3. Might have been one of the reasons (besides HoT, ofc) why they never did season 4 too.
So what will keep people doing raids let’s say a year or two from now if they’ve already done them a couple of times – mastered them and proved to themselves they can do it.
Not sure. What keeps people doing Arah path 4 now, long time after they did it and proven to themselves? It’s not the rewards, for sure.
And if they won’t keep running it? Well, it would mean is that the content would not be fun enough to repeat it. And likely shouldn’t have ben developed in the first place.
The intrinsic value of Twilight matters up to a point – but the fact that it is coveted by others matters and increases its value to its owner.
The incinerator is a decent legendary and yet not many have it – because it isn’t as desired by most people.
Nah. Incinerator looks too futuristic, and doesn’t fit most aestethic themes. I mean, it might fit engineers… too bad they can’t use daggers. You might passably use it on ele… but dagger is a pvp weapon. Thief? Nah. Necro? Now that’s just ridiculous.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Legendaries are not some shiny toy that everybody gets as a participation award, Legendaries are a very difficult and hardcore thing to obtain, and a big part of that is dedicating yourself to completing certain content
Tell that to my friend who came back to GW2 after 2 years and got Spark off a world boss. He has less than 1000 achievement points and barely plays the game… Getting a legendary is expensive or luck based, there is nothing hardcore about it at all.
Hence why anet is CHANGING the acquisition of the new legendarys to better reflect their philosophy for legendarys. Instead of creating scarcity in the kegendys through RNG they are making it entirely effort based
Legendary mastery is a step in the right direction.
If this is grinding to you, OP, then please tell me how the system currently work and do explain how it is currently not a grind fest. Sw days and night and days and nights and days and nights and days and nights to get 1000g to buy t6 and you’re telling me that this is less grinding than the new system?
Don’t be ridiculous.
i’m not going to sit here and advocate gw2 as a grind-free game, but to label it grindy? did you just start playing mmos this year? gw2 is a vacation on a beach compared to silkroad
i’m not going to sit here and advocate gw2 as a grind-free game, but to label it grindy? did you just start playing mmos this year? gw2 is a vacation on a beach compared to silkroad
Or SWTOR. Holy mother of God, the endgame grind for Ops gear… /powerpukes
i’m not going to sit here and advocate gw2 as a grind-free game, but to label it grindy? did you just start playing mmos this year? gw2 is a vacation on a beach compared to silkroad
The measure is not of how it compared to the competition, but rather in how it compares to the ideal. Other games might do things worse, that does not mean that GW2 always does it as well as it could.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
i’m not going to sit here and advocate gw2 as a grind-free game, but to label it grindy? did you just start playing mmos this year? gw2 is a vacation on a beach compared to silkroad
And the other reply from someone saying that this player has zero idea of what grind is:
Did anyone even bother to LOOK in this player’s wallet?
Can you provide links to sources that claim that performing an action once, perhaps even once in a lifetime, is, “grind?”
Multiple dictionaries contradict your definition and I have never seen anyone else, any expert source, lay claim to a definition that matches yours.
/sigh. Life on the Internet in a nutshell.
So that is a no?
I can claim that the correct word for a four wheeled internal combustion propelled passenger vehicle is, “aardvark.” If I am the only one using it that way, the word’s definition does not change.
I played Ragnarok Online, this kind of grind is a joke. Seriously leveling 3.4 alts is not something grindy, especially considering all the exp boosts we can get (the new exp booster gives +50% exp from all sources btw).
I’d rather have had some unlock ala Metroidvania (get to a point to unlock this which unlock other parts of the map where you can get these, etc….). Maybe next time.
The reason why people are unhappy is NOT because there is a lot of grind in a game, but because there is a lot of grind in the xpac of a game originally advertised as one that “does not require time to prepare for fun” and “respects your time”.
Players have been asking for a better way to get Legendary Weapons, a way that has more focused grind instead of just grind and they delivered. Now players complain that the grind they asked for is there?
I am not talking about ways of getting legendary weapons. I actually got one in the old way by playing less than an hour a day on average, and I don’t really have comments on different ways of getting legendary weapons.
The topic was about Legendary Weapons requiring a grind but oh well if it’s not the new legendary weapon system that is a grind then what is? The mastery system is the problem?
No, the problem is we all want everything right-the-hell-now. And then we get bored when we do get everything and want more.
The problem, gentle reader, is that we’re our own worst enemy.
1/10. If that is really all you understood of the posts and threads, then you should really work on your reading comprehension skills. Or are simply a troll who loves to generalise or simply lumps everyone together.
people keep comparing the mastery system to classics like castlevania, metroid, zelda. Its not analagous at all. Those games were based around exploration and finding things in order to progress, and get access to new areas.
Part of it is like that (finding the mastery points) so all that’s left is to see how much experience is needed to progress a mastery once you get the point in the world.
Not sure. What keeps people doing Arah path 4 now, long time after they did it and proven to themselves? It’s not the rewards, for sure.
And if they won’t keep running it? Well, it would mean is that the content would not be fun enough to repeat it. And likely shouldn’t have ben developed in the first place.
People are running Arah P4 to help others get their Dungeon Master, to learn how to do it as fast as possible and to sell spots for gold. “Fun” is not enough to keep content running forever but rewards are. It’s funny how you say if some content isn’t run often it means it’s not fun and shouldn’t have been developed in the first place. I say the opposite, if content isn’t being run it means it doesn’t have enough rewards for the effort needed to run it.
It’s the same with the most often run content, do you honestly believe that Silverwastes chest farming is the most fun content in the game? Because it’s one of the most run parts of the game and since all a specific type of content needs to be run is being “fun” according to you, then it must be the most fun content in the entire game. In a similar way, before they put an account cap to dungeon tokens, obviously CoF P1 was the most fun content in the game because it was being run 24/7 daily. See what happened after they added the cap? It’s not being run as often as it used to.
So no your logic doesn’t make any sense at all. Content is being run on the long run if it’s fun AND if it’s rewarding for the effort needed.
It’s funny how you say if some content isn’t run often it means it’s not fun and shouldn’t have been developed in the first place. I say the opposite, if content isn’t being run it means it doesn’t have enough rewards for the effort needed to run it.
I would say that the correct answer can be one, both, or somewhere in between. It’s impossible to tell exactly without directly polling people. Metrics will never give you the correct answer.
Yes, if you take Content A and bump the reward level, then more people will do it. Does that mean they’re having fun though? As you note, plenty of people champ farm and SW farm, and yet general opinion is that these activities are what people would prefer to be doing. And likewise, people do abandon content they enjoy if the reward isn’t worth the effort.
So the answer to content that isn’t being played is not necessarily to change the content itself, nor is it automatically to just throw more loot at it. If people are claiming that a certain type of content must have a super special unique reward, however, then that is a serious red flag.
Content should never require exceptional rewards to justify itself, all that should be required is a level of reward equivalent to the time spent in the content, so that other areas do not offer more reward. So long as a given content type is roughly equivalent to the best alternatives, that should always be plenty. If ti is not plenty, then that indicates that people don’t really want to do that thing, and require a bribe, in which case, that content should be either ovarhauled to make it more fun, or abandoned so that resources can be spent elsewhere. Additional bribery would be counterproductive.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Content should never require exceptional rewards to justify itself, all that should be required is a level of reward equivalent to the time spent in the content, so that other areas do not offer more reward.
Yet we don’t have that in the game, clear examples if you compare Arah P4 and SW chest farm. And given their latest announcement of nerfing dungeon rewards they are not going to “fix” this problem, at least as far as dungeons are concerned. All hope is that future content will have better balanced rewards.
Yet we don’t have that in the game, clear examples if you compare Arah P4 and SW chest farm.
I’m not saying we do. We certainly should. I’;m just saying, the solution is not typically “throw more loot at it.” Some activities currently have more loot than they should, others clearly don’t have enough, or they rely on unique rewards that become useless once earned. They should definitely do a loot balancing pass at some point.
And given their latest announcement of nerfing dungeon rewards they are not going to “fix” this problem, at least as far as dungeons are concerned.
My assumption is that they believe that most people are tired of dungeons in their current state, but are still doing them because the loot is decent. Since they want to focus on other dungeon-like activities, they want to remove any outside encouragement to do them. I feel like the current level of reward in dungeons was not “fair,” it was “Fair+incentive,” they wanted players to do dungeons so they bumped the rewards to a more attractive level. To some degree it worked, but I don’t think to the level that they felt it was worth expanding the existing dungeons, so they just removed that bonus.
But good news! The dungeons all still have those unique, specific rewards, so that’s all the reason anyone would ever need to run dungeons, no need for boring, generic rewards at all.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
My assumption is that they believe that most people are tired of dungeons in their current state, but are still doing them because the loot is decent.
I think they just want to promote HoT more. Fractals will have the Fractal Mastery (only available in HoT maybe?) and Raids will also require HoT to access. Those who like instanced based content will be more persuaded to buy HoT to play the game type they like the most.
The reason they gave for nerfing the dungeon rewards was because it was too much rewarding and many players agree that the direct gold income from dungeons is indeed great, while in SW you don’t generate gold, but materials to sell, so that’s not a big problem for economy. But if that was the case, they would’ve added new material rewards in dungeons instead of the gold, keeping the end result the same, but they won’t, it’s only an excuse.
Much like how they nerfed Aura skills on Elementalists and then added new ones for the Tempest, how they nerfed Thief endurance regen in Acrobatics, then added exactly that in the Daredevil traits/skills and the list goes on. Instead of putting more rewards (or better skills) in their new content, they nerf the old one, so the new one looks more impressive. I can’t say I agree with that tactic.
Actually unique rewards are the reason dungeons will always have some people doing them, maybe not us but a newer generation of GW2 players who want the skins, or maybe people that need the tokens for their generation 1 legendary. The content is by no means made irrelevant by a gold nerf, just made irrelevant for farming day in day out for gold.
If this content would not have these skins with tokens, then is would be dead content, right now however, because it has skins locked behind them, it stays relevant, and it will stay relevant to some degree for the rest of the duration of GW2’s lifespan, because it has actual incentives to go there, maybe not specificly to you, but to some players.
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
If this content would not have these skins with tokens, then is would be dead content, right now however, because it has skins locked behind them, it stays relevant, and it will stay relevant to some degree for the rest of the duration of GW2’s lifespan, because it has actual incentives to go there, maybe not specificly to you, but to some players.
True enough, I’m just not sure I see that as a virtue. Yeah, people might still grind out dungeons for the tokens until they get all the various things, but is that really a positive thing? I think that when dungeons stop being the “meta” activity, they should fill two roles, either 1. You do them once each path to experience each, or as many times as it takes for you to stop enjoying the experience itself, or 2. they provide a level of generic loot that makes them worth running if you want to, but gives you no reason to run them if you do not.
I do not believe that players should be given particular reason to grind them out for any length of time longer than “because I’m having fun,” the instant someone stops enjoying it they should be able to drop everything and never come back, without abandoning any specific rewards in the process.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
It’s the same with the most often run content, do you honestly believe that Silverwastes chest farming is the most fun content in the game?
Of course not. Yes, there are things that are run for rewards, even if they are not fun. Not sure why would you advocate to make more of those, not less.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November