Guild Wars 2

Plus, Ohonis proposition is basically what the gold currency currently is. It does everything he proposes, while also setting out a progression track for it. And the traders of tokens is nothing more than players in my opinion.

Of course that does give the people who are able an advantage, much like the medical degree person over the janitor. Just to use Ohonis example.

As I’ve explained, gold could have served that function, if the game were designed for it at launch, but ANet have allowed the gold economy to go too far out of control for it to serve that function in its current form. Ditto Karma.

I don’t see Fractals as the same as Raids, for example Fractals require half the amount of players, less organization and less coordination than what Raids should require.

Same. . . thing. It’s instanced group content. It’s a dungeon with a few more players.

I’d rather they start with “similar” content, than going for something completely different.

Then what would be the point? So that people who like Raids can also do Fractals (which they also like) and get double the rewards? Where does that leave people who don’t like Vanilla OR French Vanilla?

If/when they actually release alternatives I wouldn’t expect them to release everything at once, it might take some time, start with more familiar settings and move on.

If they’re going to release alternatives, then maybe they wouldn’t release more than one at a time, but the first they should release should be intended for people as far from “those who like to raid” as possible, otherwise it’s just a waste of time, continuing to cater to the same pool of players. Start from either end, and then, if there’s reason for it, start filling in the middle.

Ohoni.6057:

Same. . . thing. It’s instanced group content. It’s a dungeon with a few more players.

And? Does that mean that players who play Fractals will also play Raids? I don’t think so. It’s like saying that players who run Arah will also run CM. Although for many players it’s true, I should tell you that there are quite a few players who are invested/interested in running only a very specific dungeon, or a just few of them, and don’t care at all about the others. How did you say it? They enjoy one dungeon more than the others. Same with Fractals and Raids, someone who is enjoying Fractals won’t automatically enjoy Raids.

Also, just because Fractals and Raids are similar, both being instanced group content, doesn’t mean they do not need the same rewards as any other type of content. If you want to add the Raid rewards in jumping puzzles, why not Fractals too? Why exclude fractals? Why dismiss the Fractal (and only fractal) runners?

And? Does that mean that players who play Fractals will also play Raids?

Definitely. 90% at minimum.

Now, by that I mean “players that want to do Fractals.” Players that want to do Fractals, also want to do raids, 100% of them (within a reasonable pedantic margin of error). There are other players who don’t particularly want to do Fractals but feel compelled to do so by various loot and dailies and whatnot, and they might do Fractals and not also do raids, but to attach the “alternative” rewards to Fractals is just adding insult to injury, like providing an easier way to get Legendary weapons, but only the underwater ones.

Also, just because Fractals and Raids are similar, both being instanced group content, doesn’t mean they do not need the same rewards as any other type of content. If you want to add the Raid rewards in jumping puzzles, why not Fractals too? Why exclude fractals? Why dismiss the Fractal (and only fractal) runners?

Look, as I said, if they want to expand it to dozens of different varieties, then that’s fine, I’d totally support that and Fractals can be one of them. But think of each activity as a bubble in a complex Venn diagram, in which they overlap based on how many players do both activities. Raids and Fractals have a very close, if not total overlap. If you’re going to find an alternative to raiding to reward, you want to base it off the bubbles that have the least overlap with raiding, so that the most people that are excluded from the raid option would benefit from the alternative.

So first they need to make it something nothing at all like Raiding, and then they can move inwards. Fractals should be one of the very last activities covered, after the other alternatives have had their fix.

Ohoni.6057:

And? Does that mean that players who play Fractals will also play Raids?

Definitely. 90% at minimum.

There are a lot of players who are still doing dungeon runs and not running fractals at all. There are other players who only run fractals and not dungeons. There are players who run only specific dungeons and ignore the others completely. There are also those who only run lower level fractals and never reached any level above 30.

It’s like saying that if someone likes roaming in WvW they will also like following big blobs around, like saying if someone likes Deathmatch, they will also like Stronghold in PVP, or like saying someone who likes running random jumping puzzles will enjoy Not So Secret, or someone who likes infantile mode in SAB will also enjoy Tribulation Mode. Or someone who likes the 1vs1 battles in the Gauntlet will find Liadri enjoyable, or if you like killing the Claw of Jormag, you will also like Triple Trobule, or or or, millions of examples. All of them same type of gameplay, but different content, applies to different players.

So “Fractal runners”, as a general term, won’t necessarily move on to Raids, at least not for a very long time, much like how Dungeon runners didn’t move to Fractals right away. It’s different content, although similar. Yes Raids will apply more to Fractal runners, but not all Fractal runners will like them all the same, at least not 90% of them.

Fractals != Raids

maddoctor.2738:

. Unique rewards were always supposed to be skins anyway and never more powerful items.

^This.

I don’t mind “grind” or long term reward mechanics. It really is an inevitable consequence of the genre in that you have to cater to this type of player as much as those that choose to not play this way. I respect that even if game play wise I personally abhor it and choose not to take part in work simulation in a video game.

To each their own.

My biggest issue is rewarding players that choose to take part with more in-game power and statistical gear based advantage than those that choose not to, or even simply don’t have the option or luxury of such timesink.

It’s my biggest bone to pick and why I’m holding off on purchase of HoT till the dust settles. Have your flashy skin or title showing your “uber-awesomeness!!!”…could not care less. Be more powerful in-game because you have the luxury of playing for 30+ hours a week while I might be lucky to squeeze in 10 due to outside commitments.

No thanks.

Guild Wars was the game you played if that wasn’t your thing.

fireflyry.7023:

maddoctor.2738:

. Unique rewards were always supposed to be skins anyway and never more powerful items.

^This.

I don’t mind “grind” or long term reward mechanics. It really is an inevitable consequence of the genre in that you have to cater to this type of player as much as those that choose to not play this way. I respect that even if game play wise I personally abhor it and choose not to take part in work simulation in a video game.

To each their own.

My biggest issue is rewarding players that choose to take part with more in-game power and statistical gear based advantage than those that choose not to, or even simply don’t have the option or luxury of such timesink.

It’s my biggest bone to pick and why I’m holding off on purchase of HoT till the dust settles. Have your flashy skin or title showing your “uber-awesomeness!!!”…could not care less. Be more powerful in-game because you have the luxury of playing for 30+ hours a week while I might be lucky to squeeze in 10 due to outside commitments.

No thanks.

Guild Wars was the game you played if that wasn’t your thing.

Yes, agree…especially with the “Guild Wars was the game you played if that wasn’t your thing”
It used to be, but it is no more.

Serophous.9085:

sPvP – remember raids get a week lockout, how can that apply to sPvP? If you put it on a track, people can just constantly play to keep grabbing it, faster than someone doing a raid. Not to mention, you would be rewarded legendary armor for losing technically if its based on a reward track. Not very fair to the raiders who lose and just get nothing.

Just follow an example of an already done future content, and allow obtaining it alongside the same path as pvp legendary backpacks (so, from league rewards).

Serophous.9085:

PvE – I thought raiding was PvE..but ok…a thread complaining about grind, wants to throw up a suggestion to add grind for legendary in PvE. Make it random from boss drops won’t cut it, people will complain, collect XXXX items, people will yell about grinding, not to mention “I already have my legendary gear and just keep getting more and more XX tokens! Anet, create a sink for them!” Plus, again, the rate would have to be close to the aquisition rate a Raider would get.

The most obvious pve equivalent would be a legendary precursor collection.

Serophous.9085:

Fractals – tokens? (see PvE). higher level fractals? “WTS Fractal lv XX for legendary gear you only get once a week for 100g!” and then the reports: “I sent my gold and was kicked! Didn’t get my legendary gear!”

…so? You think you won’t see those for raids?

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

velmeister.4187:

It also seemed that the main objective of the designers was to slow down players from obtaining these desired items rather than to create a satisfying feeling of achievement.

I honestly believe the entire mastery system is a layer of grind and on top of that grind, now we have map and fractal grind, and on top of that WvW grind, and it does not end there, sPvP grind for shards of glory.

…adding layers of grind to create pseudo-content?

Agree totally. This is one of the reasons I am turning away from this game more and more. It was a lot more enjoyable to play at launch then now. Now we have to grind to be able to do a grind to be able to play the way we like. Oh and to top it off here’s some more grind, 200 hero points in your face bish.

Also this is not me bashing on GW2. I really love the combat in this game, the class mechanics and the visuals, and I wish I could say this is a great game that allows you to play the way you wish, but truth is it doesn’t. Sure, it’s better than some other korean grind games I wouldn’t even want to touch, but ArenaNet has long abandoned the no grind statement, and I don’t wish to support this kind of game.

Sirendor.1394:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

Yep. They’re rare because people don’t stick with them. They play for a while, get their stuff early then go to the forums where they complain about nothing to do and leave.

So that leaves games with grind. Don’t blame the game for giving people what they really want, not what they say they want. Devs see what holds people year after year versus what loses people quickly and they know what to put in their game.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Sirendor.1394:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

Yep. They’re rare because people don’t stick with them. They play for a while, get their stuff early then go to the forums where they complain about nothing to do and leave.

So that leaves games with grind. Don’t blame the game for giving people what they really want, not what they say they want. Devs see what holds people year after year versus what loses people quickly and they know what to put in their game.

Sounds more addiction than fun

Kevan.8912:

Sounds more addiction than fun

More like abusive relationship.

Im out of the game for a few months and maybe im wrong but…inst legendaries stats equals to ascended? Of course still requires some grind to get them but it is away easier. Legendaries in my opnion need to be hard to get, and on GW2 they are harmless right? They are cool but dont impact the game too much…Again i can be wrong here

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Sirendor.1394:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

Yep. They’re rare because people don’t stick with them. They play for a while, get their stuff early then go to the forums where they complain about nothing to do and leave.

So that leaves games with grind. Don’t blame the game for giving people what they really want, not what they say they want. Devs see what holds people year after year versus what loses people quickly and they know what to put in their game.

People are kind of missing the point.

It’s not the “grind” mechanic or players who dig that at fault. I don’t think anyone is arguing that.

It’s the change in the reward given and effect it now has in a franchise where previously the mechanic had minimal, if any, effect on a player getting to max level with max stats and skill access quickly and relatively easily in comparison to other games in the genre.

This game kept grinders happy with titles and skins to show off, casuals were happy in that this had no bearing on their access to content or the game-play restrictions a power-tier based hierarchical structure can bring.

There are a lot of players who are still doing dungeon runs and not running fractals at all.

Sure, but dungeons are another shade removed. Fractals are just raids for a game without actual raiding. I didn’t say that all dungeon people wanted to raid, or Fractal.

So “Fractal runners”, as a general term, won’t necessarily move on to Raids, at least not for a very long time, much like how Dungeon runners didn’t move to Fractals right away. It’s different content, although similar. Yes Raids will apply more to Fractal runners, but not all Fractal runners will like them all the same, at least not 90% of them.

I disagree. But could you at least address the main point I was making, that even you seem to agree that Raids and Fractals are the most similar things to each other, so if you’re going to make an alternative path to Raids, it would not be helpful to start with the next closest thing?

How did I know that you were going to nitpick on one detail rather than address the core topic?

Ohoni.6057:

I disagree. But could you at least address the main point I was making, that even you seem to agree that Raids and Fractals are the most similar things to each other, so if you’re going to make an alternative path to Raids, it would not be helpful to start with the next closest thing?

I already addressed that point. More similar = easier to balance. Radically different = harder to balance. So it makes sense to first add alternative paths in content that at least has a similar way of rewarding people. And even Fractals might be a bad idea in that case since we don’t know how specifically we will get the items in question, tokens, RNG, whatever. It’s funny how they didn’t say anything on this topic on their “countdown” blog posts.

I already addressed that point. More similar = easier to balance. Radically different = harder to balance.

Possibly true, but also irrelevant to the entire point of the process, which is to provide genuine alternatives to players that are poorly served by the original system. You don’t provide charity to upper-middle-class neighborhoods.

Player shouldn’t be able to earn legendary precursor from doing open world contents at all. Those are mindless press 1 activities.

Grinding is spending 2 years going from 1-50 in DAoC. This is not a grind.

If we’re talking about an unnecessary grind how about people like me that meticulously did world completion to level a class that felt awkward only to look forward to more grind to unlock the elite spec you were shooting for because you will only have half of the class you want to play made available; I didn’t want to play half a Reaper this Friday I wanted to play as a full Reaper.

Grinding is spending 2 years going from 1-50 in DAoC. This is not a grind.

Both are grind, the former example is just more grind.

Legendary armor is equal to ascended in stats. Choosing to participate or not in raids means little.

BaconofPigs.1683:

Player shouldn’t be able to earn legendary precursor from doing open world contents at all. Those are mindless press 1 activities.

You mean you disagree with the newly coming precursor collections?

Astralporing.1957:

BaconofPigs.1683:

Player shouldn’t be able to earn legendary precursor from doing open world contents at all. Those are mindless press 1 activities.

You mean you disagree with the newly coming precursor collections?

Well the new precursor collections DO require instanced content to be finished too so someone “just” playing in the open world won’t be able to get them.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

BaconofPigs.1683:

Player shouldn’t be able to earn legendary precursor from doing open world contents at all. Those are mindless press 1 activities.

You mean you disagree with the newly coming precursor collections?

Well the new precursor collections DO require instanced content to be finished too so someone “just” playing in the open world won’t be able to get them.

Not sure about that. Yes, they might require going into specific instanced content, and perhaps killing some specific opponents (and not necessarily even one of main bosses), but i haven’t seen yet anything that would require finishing said content. Might have missed something, of course.
Even then, they are still primarily open world PvE aspected, and from what i have seen, none of the “instanced” requirements were actually hard – they were there more as an exploration and thematic options. Something on the level of mawdrey’s fractal requirement, nothing more.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

If we’re talking about an unnecessary grind how about people like me that meticulously did world completion to level a class that felt awkward only to look forward to more grind to unlock the elite spec you were shooting for because you will only have half of the class you want to play made available; I didn’t want to play half a Reaper this Friday I wanted to play as a full Reaper.

I want to be 20 years younger and twice as rich, but we don’t always get what we want. You can unlock the greatsword with 60 points. That’s the start of the reaper. Hell I’ll have the track half done by the time the game launches, because I have over 200 hero points ready to go on my necro.

Since you don’t know now how much more you’d need to get all the skills and traits, you’re at the very least complaining prematurely.

Astralporing.1957:

Not sure about that. Yes, they might require going into specific instanced content, and perhaps killing some specific opponents (and not necessarily even one of main bosses), but i haven’t seen yet anything that would require finishing said content. Might have missed something, of course.
Even then, they are still primarily open world PvE aspected, and from what i have seen, none of the “instanced” requirements were actually hard – they were there more as an exploration and thematic options. Something on the level of mawdrey’s fractal requirement, nothing more.

The greatest example of a boss kill required that they announced is finishing Cliffside Fractal to bow at the Colossus in the end. There will probably be more requirements like this, requiring to finish specific Fractals to proceed with the collection. And even the Open World requirements contain some not so easy ones, like finishing the Temple of Grenth event chain (can always be challenging). Overall the collections appear to be spread around the entire game, including all content types, which is a good thing.

Stark.1350:

You have zero idea what grinding is.

The majority of the players don’t know what it is.
But hey there’s word they could use, no matter what it means, just use it

“Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks.”
even if one enjoys repeting things, it’s still grind.
even if there are many ways to achieve something (not the case of legs, as you re forced to do many things for long hours, even if you don t like it. nor ascended, as you re forced to craft it, drop is largely infficient, almost impossible) but grind is MUCH more time-convenient so that simply playing as you like will give the same result but in unreasonable time, that is still grind.

the truth, imho?
very few people enjoy grind.
simply they know is it the only way that allows people to “win” just wasting more time than the others who can’t afford it/ can do it but spread ingame hours in more time/ absolutely don t want to grind especially for bis.
a competition about time, instead of skill.
and just try to defend their statusquo.

gw used to be a game where what made the difference between me with 15h/week and another 50hrs/week was skins and titles – ingame skill doesn t need stats. and if it s true that there is a time/learning/performance curve, needs much less time.
or it can take forever if one simply is not good at something. that s how things go.
but grind..grind is just grind. and anybody (but only them) who agree and can afford to login these long hours will have his reward.

Kevan.8912:

…

You took the Wikipedia article out of its context. Original Grinding was not just repetitive tasks, it was singular, you did one thing all the time for what you wanted to get. There were no alternatives, no different other methods, no flexibility other than kill this particularly named mob for a very rare drop for hours or take this item and walk with a speed debuff for 15 minutes to the repeatable quest turn-in vendor.

The absolute worst part of Grinding was that it was monotonous and not-engaging. There was ZERO enjoyment in it, but if you wanted something special or worse, something REQUIRED for other content in the game, you HAD TO DO IT.

So when you say things like GW2 is too grindy, I cannot understand. There are almost nil instances where you had to do one task to reach an objective in this MMO. Everything is nicely wrapped into different things, you progress at your own speed however you wish. And once again, there’s no pressure on you as a player to keep up with everyone else, there’s no true vertical progression where you will fall behind on if you skip a few weeks of the game. I can’t think of another MMO that has done such a good job on not letting players fall behind on content.

So no, this game isn’t a grind. If this game was a grind, Heart quests wouldn’t have many tasks to do, just one, and there would be more of them to split the hearts out, and there would be kill only quests, fetch this stick quests, etc. If this game was a grind, there would be much rarer drop rates than now with any kind of gear, Precursor drops would be almost mythical and certain precursors would ONLY have a chance to drop from very FEW mobs which would be camped everyday. Even with the shared loot system, getting a tag would be a hell of a challenge, oh and the mob would spawn every hour or so…

There is no Grind unless it repeats ONE task and the task is NOT-ENGAGING. If there are other ways to work on something, it is not a grind, its a goal.

Dynamis currency…

Fortunately for me there are enough fun things to do in GW2 that I can ignore the ones that aren’t.

So, just like I did with old legendaries, I look at the requirements for HOT legendaries and simply say, “nope.”

I won’t have legendaries, because the grind to get them is not what I consider fun. But I’m OK with that, and happy to let people who do want that sort of thing to have at it.

Selwynn.2758:

Fortunately for me there are enough fun things to do in GW2 that I can ignore the ones that aren’t.

So, just like I did with old legendaries, I look at the requirements for HOT legendaries and simply say, “nope.”

I won’t have legendaries, because the grind to get them is not what I consider fun. But I’m OK with that, and happy to let people who do want that sort of thing to have at it.

Although I am sorry to hear that you don’t like the path towards Legendaries, it is very refreshing to hear someone not complain since yes, there will be quite a lot of other content that can deliver fruitful rewards for those invested into it.

I sincerely hope there is plenty of worthy skins from HoT we can all appreciate and participate in.

Selwynn.2758:

Fortunately for me there are enough fun things to do in GW2 that I can ignore the ones that aren’t.

So, just like I did with old legendaries, I look at the requirements for HOT legendaries and simply say, “nope.”

I won’t have legendaries, because the grind to get them is not what I consider fun. But I’m OK with that, and happy to let people who do want that sort of thing to have at it.

Nicely put and I’m much the same. I’d be in to them if they actually meant something and were implemented decently. I’m just not into playing a work simulator and it’s great they can be largely ignored.

As a player who is into RP and highly themed characters I don’t really like any of the skins either, would be nice to see more variation of choice and more subtle design. SO wish they would do this. I don’t really want to look like I’ve just been to a bad 90s rave party and there are really way to few options available imo.

Would also be cool if they had more varied ways of obtaining them with skins representing this so you could show/knew on sight the players journey. Say 1 for sPvP, 1 for WvW, 1 for PvE, 1 for fractals, 1 for Raids, crafting, even 1 for open world PvE etc, etc of each weapon type. That would friggin rock and I’d definitely be after a few then.

Personally atm I lump them in with GWAMM as it’s pretty much the new GWAMM anyway. Might as well get a “I <3 Grind” T-shirt with both and I’m happy to avoid that.

Kevan.8912:

gw used to be a game where what made the difference between me with 15h/week and another 50hrs/week was skins and titles – ingame skill doesn t need stats.

So true.

You took the Wikipedia article out of its context. Original Grinding was not just repetitive tasks, it was singular, you did one thing all the time for what you wanted to get. There were no alternatives, no different other methods, no flexibility other than kill this particularly named mob for a very rare drop for hours or take this item and walk with a speed debuff for 15 minutes to the repeatable quest turn-in vendor.

The absolute worst part of Grinding was that it was monotonous and not-engaging. There was ZERO enjoyment in it, but if you wanted something special or worse, something REQUIRED for other content in the game, you HAD TO DO IT.

So, like raiding?

Ohoni.6057:

You took the Wikipedia article out of its context. Original Grinding was not just repetitive tasks, it was singular, you did one thing all the time for what you wanted to get. There were no alternatives, no different other methods, no flexibility other than kill this particularly named mob for a very rare drop for hours or take this item and walk with a speed debuff for 15 minutes to the repeatable quest turn-in vendor.

The absolute worst part of Grinding was that it was monotonous and not-engaging. There was ZERO enjoyment in it, but if you wanted something special or worse, something REQUIRED for other content in the game, you HAD TO DO IT.

So, like raiding?

Nope. Raiding engages you always.

Nope. Raiding engages you always.

Nope, that’s entirely subjective.

Don´t punch me with a dictionary please, but in my perception something that is monotonous is an event, an action or a move that you do over and over again.
A monotonous action is for example to put barbie dolls into boxes. It is so monotonous that it is done by robots, who would surely be frustrated too if they could.

So a raid is not monotonous if you do it one time. Maybe it is not monotonous if you do it 10 times. But it surely will get monotonous if you do it for the 50th time. As raids require practice to succeed they are bound to become monotonous, especially if you hit a brick wall for a longer time.
If it engaging or not makes no real difference. Try listening to Beethovens 9th symphony for 10 hours straight and you will find it monotonous to listen it again the next day, despite it being an acclaimed masterpiece.
And I have to agree with Ohoni on the idea that engaging is really subjective and can quickly turn into frustration after some attempts. I already know that I will be frustrated with raids very quickly, but Anet leaves me no choice if I want a versatile armor.

I think people have to consider that Legendary tier items are forever best in slot items, so it makes sense for Arenanet to create a long term method to actually obtain them. I don’t like a lot of the grind there is outside of that, but the Legendary grind is one I can deal with because of that stipulation that the items are going to be best in slot until the game ends, unless they go back on that but I don’t feel like they would at this point.

It’d be nice if getting the precursor itself was done through a rewarding quest chain, or through some of the harder game content, rather than relying on random drops or farming the gold for one. But that’d be the main thing I feel would make the legendary process a lot less grind/RNG and at least somewhat more rewarding in the long run.

But eh, I have Sunrise and I worked for a while on it. I didn’t mind that grind so much, it wasn’t as bad as people made it out to be (I bought Dawn off the TP after selling exotics and the like — it all adds up over time). There aren’t any legendaries I’m wanting terribly at the moment, but it’s one of those things you just go all in for for a period of time and hope for the best. (I made mine in probably three months, and that wasn’t just straight grinding either, I did what I liked in the game and sold the spoils from it).

Ohoni.6057:

Nope. Raiding engages you always.

Nope, that’s entirely subjective.

As always, this community never fails to amaze me.

Jesus.

BaconofPigs.1683:

Player shouldn’t be able to earn legendary precursor from doing open world contents at all. Those are mindless press 1 activities.

Players like you should never be allowed to participate in decision-making tasks. Raids become easily as mindless once they become farm status and/or “boring” (which is highly subjective) before that point is reached.

Ohoni.6057:

Nope. Raiding engages you always.

Nope, that’s entirely subjective.

It’s not. Rather it can’t be if the Raid is designed to be difficult and offer a serious prospect of deaths/wiping. By design Raids are engaging, they cannot be a grind.

Grinding doesn’t. You kill 100 enemies and you know something isn’t going to happen, no suddenly new and difficult attacks will result from these mobs. It’s to the point where it numbs you completely.

As for whether or not Raids will turn into a grind after say the 10th/50th/100th time running through the encounters, that won’t happen. But what you can say is if the raid starts becoming boring. That depends entirely on how fluid and fun each encounter is. There are sound cases where some bosses are just more entertaining to do than others, which never really dry up. Others can feel like a chore, but you know you rather just get through it once and play committed to not messing up your assignment.

But no, by design Raids will never be a grind.

Decides to toast some marshmallows while being entertained

You’re complaining about precursor crafting?! Seriously?? Even a bit of grinding is better than the system we had before.

Obligatory shameless bump.

But, will you please reconsider unlocking equivalent amount of masteries experience for central tyria for ppl who already have mastery points available? That means if someone has 1 mastery point for Tyria. let that person have 1 level to train on any line. rest let him/her grind it.

Fir example, I have 56 mastery points. And that’s 3 years of playing. Now, you are asking me to replay the same content to use these mastery points. Ain’t that plain ridiculous?

It’s not. Rather it can’t be if the Raid is designed to be difficult and offer a serious prospect of deaths/wiping. By design Raids are engaging, they cannot be a grind.

Nope, entirely subjective. Oh, they can require your attention, certainly, one mistake and you fail, that’s possible, but that is not player engagement if the player does not actually enjoy that sort of activity. Player engagement is when they actually ENJOY what they are doing, when they actually want to be there. If a player is just going through the motions to get past the content, no matter how precise those motions may be, he is not engaged in that task.

A-Net is tricking people into thinking this expansion is worth 50$. It’s just a shameless grind and a broken promise on their part. No grind philosophy my kitten .

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2tjxe8/pax_announcement_wordforword_transcription_of/