Guild Wars 2

The map is a mess. Full of dead ends, anything that looks close to you will inevitably be on an upper or lower level that requires coming from a completely unrelated location because only one route leads there, or necessitate knowing about some mushroom or updraft route to access the area, this route itself usually requiring heading to a seemingly completely unrelated area to get started. The minimap is rendered basically useless as there are too many overlapping levels, with too many paths that make unannounced level changes and too many routes that look to be going somewhere only to forcibly redirect due to a wall that is basically invisible on the minimap. Even the roads are almost useless, switching up and down and winding past each other such that what looked like it was the road to one place actually leads to a completely different place. The wallows help a little, but only a little as inevitably the place you need to be is between the wallows and can’t be accessed without running around to other far away points. The waypoints are too few and too far between, and many parts of the map require extensive foot travel from the nearest waypoint or wallow to reach, through often very infested grounds that can’t be safely traversed solo, not that there is any indication of this issue before you are half an hour in and just wiped and have to start all over. The whole mess is almost unnavicable without a guide or without spending unending hours memorizing the layout, completely defeating the purpose of having a map in the first place.

It gets very navigatable once you explore it a bit more and learn how interconnected everything is. The mini map even starts to make more sense.

It’s your own mind-map that is important, the mini map is basically more or less useless in the beginning.

Tangled Depths is a true explorers map; Just get out there (with a friend) and wander and soon enough you’ll learn your way around. It’s a nice map to duo in, and is nice to have such a place.

I think Tangled Depths, more than any other map in the game, rewards effort.

Tarn.1374:

It’s your own mind-map that is important, the mini map is basically more or less useless in the beginning.

Tangled Depths is a true explorers map; Just get out there (with a friend) and wander and soon enough you’ll learn your way around. It’s a nice map to duo in, and is nice to have such a place.

I think Tangled Depths, more than any other map in the game, rewards effort.

That’s how I feel about it. I love the HoT maps, TD especially. The exploration challenge on this map was impressive.

Tangled Depths is a challenge to learn. Even I had to take my time to learn my way around, and I usually memorize maps the moment I step on them, but once you understand the map it is much easier to get around and nicer layed out than any other map in this game. It is hands down my favourite map in the game.

Basically the map consists of the four major lanes (ogre, nuhoch, rata novus, scar) underground that connect to the ley line confluence in the south of the map. Above ground, there is a camp corresponding to each of the lanes, with a waypoint, a wallow that leads right down to the lane, and a path to alternately take you to the lane without the wallow.

Once you have got that basic map layout down and know your way around, everything else is close by one of the camps and/or lanes. Only a few points are really so much out of your way that you have to take a huge detour to get there.

If exploring the map on your own feels too much for you, I’m sure there are people around happy to lead you through the map and help you find your way. Just the other day, somebody in our guild chat asked about TD, and we ended up with a 6-man squad spending several hours exploring and enjoying the map, with a mix of players new to the map and veterans still stumbling about in places but having tons of fun .

They were thinking what a great map to explore. It is.

The map is very difficult to explore on your own, because you don’t know the paths, and the minimap doesn’t help a bit.

I suggest this to learn this map:
Don’t explore alone.
Instead, find a TD map with an “event train” on lfg and join the commander.

Ususally, these start right after a Chak Potentat meta event, because at this time all the event chains start from the beginning. The commander and his zerg will run through several events and event chains. He will run around half of the map and show you “unexpected” ways to get to locations. Keep an eye on him, he will jump occasionally some time to another location with waypoint or Nuhoch Wallow. Always follow him close.
You will get huge amounts of events, achievements, XP and loot. More than on most other map.

Ideally, at the end of the event train is the next Chak Potentat meta event, which you should participate as well. Look for maps that developed 4 commanders for the 4 lanes.

After a few days in an event train, you know your ways across the map! And the map begins to make some sense and some fun finally. This worked for me.

As an example of the badness, I was trying to get to Ogre Camp to get the waypoint. I ended up in the waterway (not intentionally), and seeing a pool under the camp I figured I could just swim there. After swimming for 15 min, I got to a big pool under the camp. Loking for a way to the platform, I saw that it looked like I needed to jump along a series of crystals to the exit. Did that for another 5-10min. Then got the end and looked up to disver that I was in kitten with some tree branches leading up. Realizing that to even try to go up that would involve trying to walked along branches and make pixel precision jumps all the way up, something notorious for the “moves you so quickly to the side when you encounter a non-visible stop that you instantly fall off” issue, I left the map in disgust, having spent OVER HALF AN HOUR GETTING 0 LOOT TO GET TRAPPED IN A DEAD END. Not only is there a giant room that on the map screams “something is hear”, but the layout of the room continues to make you believe that something is there after you arrive for a significant period of time. That is just one example of the poor design that went into the map. A dead end should be obvious when you get there, not indicate by it’s design that if you just do X you will reach something that turns out to be another dead end.

Also, I am one of the people suffering from the random Code=7:11:3:191:101, which means my game will randomly decide to DC, then put me back at the start of the map when I reload, so the lack of WPs and navigability is a double insult to me. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Lost-connection/)

Boogiepop Void.6473:

The map is a mess. Full of dead ends, anything that looks close to you will inevitably be on an upper or lower level that requires coming from a completely unrelated location because only one route leads there, or necessitate knowing about some mushroom or updraft route to access the area, this route itself usually requiring heading to a seemingly completely unrelated area to get started. The minimap is rendered basically useless as there are too many overlapping levels, with too many paths that make unannounced level changes and too many routes that look to be going somewhere only to forcibly redirect due to a wall that is basically invisible on the minimap. Even the roads are almost useless, switching up and down and winding past each other such that what looked like it was the road to one place actually leads to a completely different place. The wallows help a little, but only a little as inevitably the place you need to be is between the wallows and can’t be accessed without running around to other far away points. The waypoints are too few and too far between, and many parts of the map require extensive foot travel from the nearest waypoint or wallow to reach, through often very infested grounds that can’t be safely traversed solo, not that there is any indication of this issue before you are half an hour in and just wiped and have to start all over. The whole mess is almost unnavigable without a guide or without spending unending hours memorizing the layout, completely defeating the purpose of having a map in the first place.

Absolutely, all of this.

Not that I mind the complexity, but I find it really, really irritating that the map doesn’t lend any sort of conveyance and that there are insufficient shortcuts for getting around.

And ANet’s “you can’t get there from here” design of the HoT maps is particularly evident in Tangled Depths. Again, complexity makes the map somewhat interesting, until it stops me from participating in events.

I’ll say this with every “I hate TD” thread:

ANet, the best QoL you can give for HoT maps right now is a set of custom map markers. If you can’t be bothered to have your maps display properly, then allow us in-game tools to be our own cartographers.

Yes, been there, had the same problem like you. Follow my “event train” advice the posting above you. Your experience will change radically.

Don’t walk around the map alone until you know the ways. There are many dead ends. They only come alive for a short time for the event that is supposed to happen there.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

As an example of the badness, I was trying to get to Ogre Camp to get the waypoint. I ended up in the waterway (not intentionally), and seeing a pool under the camp I figured I could just swim there. After swimming for 15 min, I got to a big pool under the camp. Loking for a way to the platform, I saw that it looked like I needed to jump along a series of crystals to the exit. Did that for another 5-10min. Then got the end and looked up to disver that I was in kitten with some tree branches leading up. Realizing that to even try to go up that would involve trying to walked along branches and make pixel precision jumps all the way up, something notorious for the “moves you so quickly to the side when you encounter a non-visible stop that you instantly fall off” issue, I left the map in disgust, having spent OVER HALF AN HOUR GETTING 0 LOOT TO GET TRAPPED IN A DEAD END. Not only is there a giant room that on the map screams “something is hear”, but the layout of the room continues to make you believe that something is there after you arrive for a significant period of time. That is just one example of the poor design that went into the map. A dead end should be obvious when you get there, not indicate by it’s design that if you just do X you will reach something that turns out to be another dead end.

Hate to tell you this, but there is something there. Thats the jumping puzzle in Tangled Depths – you get an achievement if you dance in the final room.

Rauderi.8706:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

The map is a mess. Full of dead ends, anything that looks close to you will inevitably be on an upper or lower level that requires coming from a completely unrelated location because only one route leads there, or necessitate knowing about some mushroom or updraft route to access the area, this route itself usually requiring heading to a seemingly completely unrelated area to get started. The minimap is rendered basically useless as there are too many overlapping levels, with too many paths that make unannounced level changes and too many routes that look to be going somewhere only to forcibly redirect due to a wall that is basically invisible on the minimap. Even the roads are almost useless, switching up and down and winding past each other such that what looked like it was the road to one place actually leads to a completely different place. The wallows help a little, but only a little as inevitably the place you need to be is between the wallows and can’t be accessed without running around to other far away points. The waypoints are too few and too far between, and many parts of the map require extensive foot travel from the nearest waypoint or wallow to reach, through often very infested grounds that can’t be safely traversed solo, not that there is any indication of this issue before you are half an hour in and just wiped and have to start all over. The whole mess is almost unnavigable without a guide or without spending unending hours memorizing the layout, completely defeating the purpose of having a map in the first place.

Absolutely, all of this.

Not that I mind the complexity, but I find it really, really irritating that the map doesn’t lend any sort of conveyance and that there are insufficient shortcuts for getting around.

And ANet’s “you can’t get there from here” design of the HoT maps is particularly evident in Tangled Depths. Again, complexity makes the map somewhat interesting, until it stops me from participating in events.

I’ll say this with every “I hate TD” thread:

ANet, the best QoL you can give for HoT maps right now is a set of custom map markers. If you can’t be bothered to have your maps display properly, then allow us in-game tools to be our own cartographers.

Play the map a bit more. With WP’s, wallows, and knowledge of how interconnected the map is, you can get to practically anywhere without much effort. There are some locations that are a little out of the way but you only really go there for map completion.

If you can still write this, then clearly your hand and body are not yet tangled enough! Return to map and get more tangled!

I ran into that map just so I could try the adventure Daily a few days ago. And, boy oh boy did the mini-map and main map prove completely useless. Got into an enemy-infested underground path that did not follow the path that was clearly shown on the map. The map didn’t even fade out and show the real path I was actually on underground. If anything, the maps being tweaked to reflect the multiple layers in HoT zones would make exploring them a whole lot easier. The mini-map has zero issue showing multiple layers in the core Tyria maps! So…what happened?

I think another issue for exploring the HoT maps is the paths that are clogged with mobs. In AB, I once got chased for whole minutes by these rolling spiky lizards that shot rocks at me, and they kept chasing me even at the point where ANY other enemy in the ENTIRE game would give up. WTH?

I’ll admit that the area looks neat but I really didn’t care for it. I much more prefer Auric Basin.
It also doesn’t help that I have a tendency of getting lost in caves and that place is like one giant cave. Sign cutting got me completely lost at the end when I first did it, I kept going the wrong way or being above the level or below the level I wanted. Literally everything trying to kill me during it didn’t help either.
So I guess you can say that I avoid that place unless I want a meta kill lol. They sure chose the right name for it though, tangled it is.

It exists as a map for those of us who do like intricate, explorable maps. Yeah it’s tough to navigate, but to me the only real drawback is that it needs more on it. It feels dangerous, it feels like an adventure and some of the masteries involve some cool spelunking through cave systems, but it still needs more events and content in it. Too much emphasis was put on the meta.

I still get lost, but I like having a map I can fight against. It also became a lot easier when I got my Nuhoch Wallows mastery done.

Great design imo

Not a fan of openworld mazes……. Please, Anet, no more maps like this unless you can improve your minimap system.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Not a fan of openworld mazes……. Please, Anet, no more maps like this unless you can improve your minimap system.

It’s all I really ask.

I have to agree with the op this is a mess. It is a bit tiring also to be the third snakes and ladders map. Just boring content. Just like Dry Top jumping everywhere as stupid.

They were thinking “Our map servers could really use a break, let’s see how low we can make the population on this one.”

Tarn.1374:

It’s your own mind-map that is important, the mini map is basically more or less useless in the beginning.

Tangled Depths is a true explorers map; Just get out there (with a friend) and wander and soon enough you’ll learn your way around. It’s a nice map to duo in, and is nice to have such a place.

I think Tangled Depths, more than any other map in the game, rewards effort.

This.

The only fault TD has is that the map doesn’t differentiate between levels well enough – you can see the top three levels all together on the map. It should be more like Verdant Brink’s canopy level is from the rest – not only a clearly different look, but also different names and different fog sectors to uncover.

I like TD. Yea, it does take awhile and some patience to get to know your way around….heck, I still get lost sometimes. But it is a well done and challenging map, imo.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tarn.1374:

It’s your own mind-map that is important, the mini map is basically more or less useless in the beginning.

Tangled Depths is a true explorers map; Just get out there (with a friend) and wander and soon enough you’ll learn your way around. It’s a nice map to duo in, and is nice to have such a place.

I think Tangled Depths, more than any other map in the game, rewards effort.

This.

The only fault TD has is that the map doesn’t differentiate between levels well enough – you can see the top three levels all together on the map. It should be more like Verdant Brink’s canopy level is from the rest – not only a clearly different look, but also different names and different fog sectors to uncover.

This would probably help me navigate that map more than anything else. I have all, or all but one, WP unlocked and have used all the wallows and stuff but I still can’t reliably find my way into any of the lanes unless I port to the ley line confluence WP and then go back up the lane I want to be in. And getting to Vistas, POI, or HP? I might as well forget about those

Boogiepop Void.6473:

As an example of the badness, I was trying to get to Ogre Camp to get the waypoint. I ended up in the waterway (not intentionally), and seeing a pool under the camp I figured I could just swim there. After swimming for 15 min, I got to a big pool under the camp. Loking for a way to the platform, I saw that it looked like I needed to jump along a series of crystals to the exit. Did that for another 5-10min. Then got the end and looked up to disver that I was in kitten with some tree branches leading up. Realizing that to even try to go up that would involve trying to walked along branches and make pixel precision jumps all the way up, something notorious for the “moves you so quickly to the side when you encounter a non-visible stop that you instantly fall off” issue, I left the map in disgust, having spent OVER HALF AN HOUR GETTING 0 LOOT TO GET TRAPPED IN A DEAD END. Not only is there a giant room that on the map screams “something is hear”, but the layout of the room continues to make you believe that something is there after you arrive for a significant period of time. That is just one example of the poor design that went into the map. A dead end should be obvious when you get there, not indicate by it’s design that if you just do X you will reach something that turns out to be another dead end.

Also, I am one of the people suffering from the random Code=7:11:3:191:101, which means my game will randomly decide to DC, then put me back at the start of the map when I reload, so the lack of WPs and navigability is a double insult to me. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Lost-connection/)

It’s just your unfamiliarity with the map. You can actually jump an updraft chain near the Order of Whispers camp waypoint, up into the great tree (this is the same way you access the nearby HP up high on the ledge) and literally glide right down into Ogre camp WP in a matter of seconds.

This is typical of TD. There are generally multiple paths to any particular point on the map. If it’s taking you more than a few minutes to get anywhere you probably aren’t taking the shortest route.

But that’s why it’s a true exploration challenge. The map is actually very well designed – provided you understand it! You can get around very quickly once you do.

I tried to contact you in game several weeks ago to ask if you’d like a hand navigating TD, but you didn’t respond. I assume you aren’t looking for help, but the offer stands. I’d be happy to show you around some time and explain some of the routes that might make your life easier.

Last night in game, for some reason I ended up on a character that hadn’t been to TD before but needed some of the hero challenges for their elite spec that I hadn’t unlocked yet. Shortly after entering the map, I stumbled upon another player that was venting their frustration about not finding things on the map, so we teamed up and explored together, me showing the way to the more obscure challenges and vistas.

After about an hour of the two of us duo-ing challenges all over the place (except for the mushroom queen … that one single-handedly wiped the floor with us ) not only had we picked up a good bit of exploration points but I felt that the other person was a lot more comfortable with moving around the map, too.

So if you are still fighting to learn the map and are on EU, feel free to message me if you see me online. I have a bunch of characters still waiting to explore the map, and it’s much more enjoyable if you aren’t stumbling around alone .

After your initial outrage try to learn it, explore and get lost in it. I’m sure in no time you’ll learn to appreciate it.

Tangled depths map completion is the pain. Going from one side of map to the other once you have all way points is pretty easy. Always run for the big tree in the middle of the map on your first time characters. Then use the wallows to port around the map unlock waypoints.

Randulf.7614:

It exists as a map for those of us who do like intricate, explorable maps. Yeah it’s tough to navigate, but to me the only real drawback is that it needs more on it. It feels dangerous, it feels like an adventure and some of the masteries involve some cool spelunking through cave systems, but it still needs more events and content in it. Too much emphasis was put on the meta.

I still get lost, but I like having a map I can fight against. It also became a lot easier when I got my Nuhoch Wallows mastery done.

Great design imo

(To the sentence I bolded in up there) What about those of us who are still working on the HoT LS and will need to find our way around and through TD in order to continue the story? TD should have been made accessible to everyone, not just meant for people who like these types of challenges/can actually wrap their heads around it.

Moyayuki.3619:

Randulf.7614:

It exists as a map for those of us who do like intricate, explorable maps. Yeah it’s tough to navigate, but to me the only real drawback is that it needs more on it. It feels dangerous, it feels like an adventure and some of the masteries involve some cool spelunking through cave systems, but it still needs more events and content in it. Too much emphasis was put on the meta.

I still get lost, but I like having a map I can fight against. It also became a lot easier when I got my Nuhoch Wallows mastery done.

Great design imo

(To the sentence I bolded in up there) What about those of us who are still working on the HoT LS and will need to find our way around and through TD in order to continue the story? TD should have been made accessible to everyone, not just meant for people who like these types of challenges/can actually wrap their heads around it.

It is accessible to everyone. There are quest markers which for the most part do their job. It worked well for me my first time through.

Moyayuki.3619:

Randulf.7614:

It exists as a map for those of us who do like intricate, explorable maps. Yeah it’s tough to navigate, but to me the only real drawback is that it needs more on it. It feels dangerous, it feels like an adventure and some of the masteries involve some cool spelunking through cave systems, but it still needs more events and content in it. Too much emphasis was put on the meta.

I still get lost, but I like having a map I can fight against. It also became a lot easier when I got my Nuhoch Wallows mastery done.

Great design imo

(To the sentence I bolded in up there) What about those of us who are still working on the HoT LS and will need to find our way around and through TD in order to continue the story? TD should have been made accessible to everyone, not just meant for people who like these types of challenges/can actually wrap their heads around it.

Well, you could look up a guide and then never come back if you hate it so much. Should you have to? Maybe not. But it seems a minor inconvenience to players like myself, who love TD and would like to see more maps like it.

I already posted how I dislike this map. Then thought rather then just complain what suggestion. Since the NPC and others had to already be here they must have explored some to get where they are before just stumbling across them. If ANET is going to do rep then how about a map rep where you can buy or earn map clarity. Since we all have multi toons and since you will have explored with a main hand down the WP and things like that but leave the hero points and other dribble as stuff you have to do. Some of us old timers have a hard enough time remembering where we left are teeth when we get up in the morning let alone how to get to a WP!

Rasimir.6239:

Basically the map consists of the four major lanes (ogre, nuhoch, rata novus, scar) underground that connect to the ley line confluence in the south of the map. Above ground, there is a camp corresponding to each of the lanes, with a waypoint, a wallow that leads right down to the lane, and a path to alternately take you to the lane without the wallow.

Wow Rasimir, that has actually clarified it for me, it’s more logical than I realised lol… maybe it just takes someone to give a staightforward overview sometimes! For all my running round like a headless chicken, I genuinely hadn’t realised the map was that simple Feel a bit of an idiot now, lol

In comparison to how good Verdant Brink is it’s quite clear that less energy and time went into developing the other maps.

Expansion would have been amazing if it would have been released with Silverwaste and Dry Top map + Living story content for these maps and a few dungeons, then Verdant Brink would have been the climax of quality in the middle of the expansion.

One of the problems with HoT was that starting from Verdant Brink afterwards every map just got less interesting with no multiplayer instanced content at all beside unplayable raids.

Xillllix.3485:

In comparison to how good Verdant Brink is it’s quite clear that less energy and time went into developing the other maps.

Expansion would have been amazing if it would have been released with Silverwaste and Dry Top map + Living story content for these maps and a few dungeons, then Verdant Brink would have been the climax of quality in the middle of the expansion.

One of the problems with HoT was that starting from Verdant Brink afterwards every map just got less interesting with no multiplayer instanced content at all beside unplayable raids.

I don’t buy this at all. Quite a few people find TD to be their favorite map and it’s obvious a ton of work went into it from anyone who spent time there.

In fact, you can’t possibly make a map like TD without spending a huge amount of time on it. It’s very well thought out. There are short cuts you can take to get around, that you have to find and learn but it’s clear they’re intentional and part of the design.

This isn’t a case of VB got more work. This is a case of too many players want maps that don’t make you think.

Yes, I agree with Vayne. I am not looking to play a maze game. I don’t want to have to memorize maps because the minimaps are useless. I prefer maps that are visually stunning and interesting because of the interesting architecture, encounters and npcs you interact with.

I want to think about the people, interesting places, events in the game not scrambling around in to dead ends because the minimaps are misleading. I hope flat maps make a comeback in the next expansion.

This map was a nightmare to me at first as well, but then I discovered you could drop down even further from the underground camp- the one near the zone entry- into the lane right by the chak stronghold. Once I knew that it was easy to get to the ley line hub, and from there you can access any part of the map you really want to. Granted I’ve still not done full map completion, as I hate map completion as a rule, but general navigation became dramatically easier.

Onlysaneman.9612:

This map was a nightmare to me at first as well, but then I discovered you could drop down even further from the underground camp- the one near the zone entry- into the karka lane. Once I knew that it was easy to get to the ley line hub, and from there you can access any part of the map you really want to. Granted I’ve still not done full map completion, as I hate map completion as a rule, but general navigation became dramatically easier.

Actually, in typical TD fashion there’s a better way!

The water tunnels will take you all over the map provided you (or someone with you) has exalted markings. But it’s the slowest path to take, generally.

From Order of Whispers WP, find the nearby tree with kitten in it. Take the updraft chain on the other side to the great tree. On the other side of the great tree you can glide down into Ogre WP.

From Ogre WP there’s a wallow that will take you into Ogre lane. Head west to reach Dragon’s Passage WP. Head east to reach Leyline confluence WP. Continue east from Leyline confluence and you’ll reach SCAR camp WP. Head north up Rata Novus lane, take the tunnel east into Rata Novus and the WP there. Use Nuhoch lane and the wallow there to reach Teku Nuhoch WP, which has wallows leading all over the place.

Honestly, as far as the meta event cycle goes, that’s about all you’d need to do navigation-wise to participate. Most of the “maze” portions of the map (like that mess of caverns in the southwest) actually don’t have any of the events. They all take place near the camps (WPs) and the boss meta happens in the leyline confluence area, which is every bit as straightforward as any core Tyria map.

Map exploration would require you to delve into the “maze”. The events don’t run there, but many POIs, HPs, and MPs are hidden there.

You can get to the center of the map in about 2 minutes by dropping down the waterfall near the start of the map and ending up in nuhoch lane.

VB is far worse. You start without gliding, updrafts, or jumping mushrooms. There are more elevation changes on VB than TD.

AliamRationem.5172:

Onlysaneman.9612:

This map was a nightmare to me at first as well, but then I discovered you could drop down even further from the underground camp- the one near the zone entry- into the karka lane. Once I knew that it was easy to get to the ley line hub, and from there you can access any part of the map you really want to. Granted I’ve still not done full map completion, as I hate map completion as a rule, but general navigation became dramatically easier.

Actually, in typical TD fashion there’s a better way!

The water tunnels will take you all over the map provided you (or someone with you) has exalted markings. But it’s the slowest path to take, generally.

From Order of Whispers WP, find the nearby tree with kitten in it. Take the updraft chain on the other side to the great tree. On the other side of the great tree you can glide down into Ogre WP.

From Ogre WP there’s a wallow that will take you into Ogre lane. Head west to reach Dragon’s Passage WP. Head east to reach Leyline confluence WP. Continue east from Leyline confluence and you’ll reach SCAR camp WP. Head north up Rata Novus lane, take the tunnel east into Rata Novus and the WP there. Use Nuhoch lane and the wallow there to reach Teku Nuhoch WP, which has wallows leading all over the place.

Honestly, as far as the meta event cycle goes, that’s about all you’d need to do navigation-wise to participate. Most of the “maze” portions of the map (like that mess of caverns in the southwest) actually don’t have any of the events. They all take place near the camps (WPs) and the boss meta happens in the leyline confluence area, which is every bit as straightforward as any core Tyria map.

Map exploration would require you to delve into the “maze”. The events don’t run there, but many POIs, HPs, and MPs are hidden there.

I wasn’t talking about the water tunnels- if you follow the waterfall into the caverns right below near the start- further down from the camp where the mushroom emperor often attacks- it’ll drop you right into one of the lanes, a straight line from the hub.

Can you clarify what you mean by “karka lane” given the lack of karka in the map? Also given that the four lanes are Ogre, Nuhoch, SCAR, and Rata Novus? I think you mean the chak area northwest of Nuhoch lane.

I ask mostly because people already confused by the map will be further confused by looking for anything that could be a karka lane.

What were they thinking? I think they wanted to expand the exploration behind Silverwastes. Upper and lower levels. How well did that work? Well . . . that’s a matter of opinion.

It’s almost like they intended it to be a real jungle, full of all sorts of things what will turn you around, get you lost, and quite possibly kill you. Who’d have thought?

Yeah, who’d have thought that Anet wanted to demonstrate how crappy their minimap system is???? I would think that they would want to emphasize the strengths of their system not the weaknesses of their game system.

Donari.5237:

Can you clarify what you mean by “karka lane” given the lack of karka in the map? Also given that the four lanes are Ogre, Nuhoch, SCAR, and Rata Novus? I think you mean the chak area northwest of Nuhoch lane.

I ask mostly because people already confused by the map will be further confused by looking for anything that could be a karka lane.

I took it to mean the bottom level water tunnels (Karka are those sea creature things, right?), which can be used to reach the chak stronghold at the end of Nuhoch lane (among other areas). Of course, you’re much better off just using the wallow to Nuhoch lane at Teku Nuhoch WP and then taking the nearby wallow straight into the chak Stronghold.

Don’t have Teku Nuhoch yet? Starting at Order of Whispers WP, find the nearby wallow to the south to the undergrowth connector (it’s on open ground and in plain sight so you can just walk over to it). You’ll find yourself in a cave. Continue upward along the passage and you’ll find a wallow (you can see it marked on the map just east of your position) very close by that goes straight to Teku Nuhoch.

Teku Nuhoch WP has wallows next to it that lead to Leyline passage (Rata Novus/Nuhoch lanes) and Nuhoch lane.

As mentioned previously, starting from Order of Whispers WP you can take an updraft (head southeast from the camp, under the big tree and keeping the mordrem to your left as you pass under, then directly ahead across the stream is a rock you can climb to glide over to the hole in the tree and the updraft chain on the other side) over the great tree to Ogre WP. You can then take the nearby wallow to Ogre lane. Head west for Dragon’s passage WP or east for Leyline confluence WP. From Leyline confluence taking either of the two eastward paths (SCAR lane or the one to the south of it) will take you to SCAR camp WP.

I’ve just explained how you can reach every single WP in TD. You barely touch the maze at all to do this. That doesn’t get you every objective on the map, but if you want to know how to get around quickly just follow these directions to snag every WP on the map easily.

Give it a chance, guys. There’s a method to the madness. Map completion, HPs, and MPs are hidden as part of the exploration challenge. But the event cycles are conveniently located near WPs, wallows, and take place mostly out in the open in easy-to-reach places.

If exploration isn’t your thing? Just hit up the guide on dulfy.net. It’s a video with maps, so it should be pretty easy to follow. Once you have the objectives you want, you can just stick to the straightforward portions of the map where the events take place and use wallows to get everywhere you want to be in no time. That’s the magic of TD! Great design!

I love TD found my way around it quite quickly but yeah, the maps could do with some work.

AliamRationem.5172:

Donari.5237:

Can you clarify what you mean by “karka lane” given the lack of karka in the map? Also given that the four lanes are Ogre, Nuhoch, SCAR, and Rata Novus? I think you mean the chak area northwest of Nuhoch lane.

I ask mostly because people already confused by the map will be further confused by looking for anything that could be a karka lane.

I took it to mean the bottom level water tunnels (Karka are those sea creature things, right?), which can be used to reach the chak stronghold at the end of Nuhoch lane (among other areas).

Nope. Karka are the shell creatures that inhabit Southsun Isle and like to roll over people. They can travel by water, it’s how they attacked LA at their first appearance, but it seems unlikely there are any tunnels connecting the LA bay area to the depths of Maguuma.

Those experienced with the TD map such as yourself can make educated guesses as to what the poster meant by “karka lane” but newcomers will be confused, and if they ask where to find the karka lane in Map they may not get very helpful responses.

Donari.5237:

Can you clarify what you mean by “karka lane” given the lack of karka in the map? Also given that the four lanes are Ogre, Nuhoch, SCAR, and Rata Novus? I think you mean the chak area northwest of Nuhoch lane.

I ask mostly because people already confused by the map will be further confused by looking for anything that could be a karka lane.

Aaaand this is why I shouldn’t post when short on sleep. Sorry! I meant the lane leading right up to the chak stronghold. Don’t know why I kept calling them karka.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

The map is a mess. Full of dead ends, anything that looks close to you will inevitably be on an upper or lower level that requires coming from a completely unrelated location because only one route leads there, or necessitate knowing about some mushroom or updraft route to access the area, this route itself usually requiring heading to a seemingly completely unrelated area to get started. The minimap is rendered basically useless as there are too many overlapping levels, with too many paths that make unannounced level changes and too many routes that look to be going somewhere only to forcibly redirect due to a wall that is basically invisible on the minimap. Even the roads are almost useless, switching up and down and winding past each other such that what looked like it was the road to one place actually leads to a completely different place. The wallows help a little, but only a little as inevitably the place you need to be is between the wallows and can’t be accessed without running around to other far away points. The waypoints are too few and too far between, and many parts of the map require extensive foot travel from the nearest waypoint or wallow to reach, through often very infested grounds that can’t be safely traversed solo, not that there is any indication of this issue before you are half an hour in and just wiped and have to start all over. The whole mess is almost unnavicable without a guide or without spending unending hours memorizing the layout, completely defeating the purpose of having a map in the first place.

A complicated multidimensional map is only a ‘mess’ in your mental map until you make an effort to get to know it, then you get rewarded. The other end of the spectrum is a flat zone with no complications. GW2 has dozens if zones that satisfy the latter, diversity is good, i.e maps that offer different styles of game play that evolves as your skill grows is a good thing.

lets put it into perspective, GW2 offers:

28 or so ’flat zones.
a couple maps that focuses on meta events
3 new zones that are a mixture of layered and meta driven.
1 zone that is almost dedicated exclusively to large groups (dragon)

Whats better, choice with ^^ or 30x zones that are 1 dimensional and simple to learn?

I, for one, do not have a good sense of direction and find the zone frustrating. I have given up on pure exploring(which I have always liked)as a result.
Following groups around has gotten me most of the zone points. The levels just don’t make much sense to me, I can’t “see” them as others do.
Thanks to all for the tips and there are always on line videos.

I would say once you get used to it it’s better, the thing is, I got map completion on my main account when HOT hit, now I’m working on my alt account. You tend to take some of the TD spots for granted after awhile, like visit once and forget.

This weekend on my alt, I went hunting for two mastery points that I knew were close together and got lost, I have 162 mastery on my main and 20 on my alt…imagine my suprise when I started failing out of the sky in VB.

Seriously though, TD gets easier after a week of wandering and of course alot easier once you get all the masteries, but yeah alot of areas you’ll rarely visit again once you get them once.