Guild Wars 2

With the coming of the magnificent expansion that Heart of Thorns is, I was truly excited. The new content is genuine fun! There are so, so many new things that can be done, although I won’t extend myself too much on the subject. This is not what I am here to talk about. Apart from the things to do, there are a -lot- of things to craft, and to gather materials for; the Guild Halls, the new recipes, and everything else! If you haven’t noticed, crafting also had some changes, with the addition of the patches for insignia crafting and making Cured Thick Leather Squares use more of the base material, to name a few. The market is currently going -crazy-.

Before Heart of Thorns kicked in with its humongous load of content, I found that Ascended Armor was a fun, additional challenge to do while I was playing the game. It was difficult to get, but not impossible. (I will be using Ascended Armor as my main example in here, but it can apply to other things as well). I didn’t think I would have to spend the majority of my game time focusing on efforts to get this in a descent amount of time.

I feel that, more and more, we are splitting the community in two distinct ends; The Casual Players and The Hardcore Players. I feel that there is no longer an in-between where we can still play casually due to busy lives and still enjoy end-game content. It is either you sit on your exotic loot and enjoy playing the actual game, or you farm your butt off in hope of gathering enough gold to sink it into the next piece of armor.

When I get on to play a video game, I get on to play it. Not to farm for countless hours in order to achieve very little progress towards an armor set. Everything is “Get a lot of stacks of a lot of mats and pray for the best”. I feel that these kind of gold sinks are -everywhere- now. Gold sinks should be for these overly dedicated people who should have something unique to show off for these countless hours of game time. Now, every above-exotic item is a gold sink. And that is painful. I love doing fractals. I am not saying I am the best, but it is something I find I am good at, and will eventually require my AR to be above what my accessories can provide me, and will come a time where I won’t be able to follow my usual play crew into higher levels of fractal. Same fear goes for the upcoming raids.

It might be time to rethink crafting more than just nudging a few things here and there to make brief obstacle to people whom already have gold and impossible for people who do not want to dedicate their few hours to farming. High-end, unique skins and items should be hard to get. However, the armor that is expected to be used for anyone wanting to try their hand at end-game content should not be that out of reach for people who want to experience the game to its fullest without investing 25+ hours a week in it.

I am not sure if I made myself clear, I am a wee bit tired. But, tl;dr:
The end-game content is becoming too much of a farmer-oriented expensive content that is not readily accessible to people whom want to enjoy it without having to spend countless hours to get to it. This game should be about enjoy its actual content while doing the intended goals, and not farming countless hours in hopes of having enough gold to buy the materials required to make this time-gated, account bound items that will be used for crafting. The changes made to make things harder to get are not affecting the people intended; the whole crafting process of the end-game ascended armor should be a time-gated, account bound process in my opinion. This way, no money is involved, everyone gets it at the same intended rate, and it feels much more fulfilling than having to farm mats over gold over mats over gold for hours.

I should be playing GuildWars 2, not FarmingWhileWatchingNetflix2.

Thank you.

While I agree with most of what you say, I do have some words of wisdom.

-Wait it out a bit, the economy might eventually stabilize a bit.
-Wait it out a bit, ArenaNet might realise something needs to be done to nudge the economy in the right direction.

That said, don’t stop speaking out, Arenanet needs to know what you think of this.

Thank you for your reply, Dengar! It is my feeling, as well. Unfortunately, there has been a couple let-downs lately, and I do think as you do; we must voice it! Hopefully, that will be sooner than later; I want to be ready for the raids.

I think you contradict yourself a little. If you are a casual player, most of the content was designed for you to play and is manageable easily in exotic gear.
Ascended gear, high level fractals and raids (at least the last wings) are designed as challenges for hardcore players, so not for you.

If you want to play this content, it will be harder for you as a casual to gain acces to it.
But you are in no way restricted from it, your access just takes longer to obtain.

I think once they start again with regular Living Story updates and festivals (5 weeks until WIntersday) you will have plenty of content to complete on your casual schedule.

anahiDelrey.7601:

Thank you for your reply, Dengar! It is my feeling, as well. Unfortunately, there has been a couple let-downs lately, and I do think as you do; we must voice it! Hopefully, that will be sooner than later; I want to be ready for the raids.

The first raid wings they will introduce dont need you to be in ascended gear.
And i would guess that by that time they introduce the final wings that need ascended gear, you will have enough drops of random ascended armor and weapon boxes from the first wings, wvw, pvp or lower level fractals, to have a full ascended built as you can change the stats on ascended gear for a cost that equals the cost of an exotic set.

Disagree. Casuals can be skillful players as well. They just don’t play as much as hardcore players. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed an honest shot at difficult content.

That’s the thing; not all people who play on casual schedules are “casual” players. I don’t log in to play and chase butterflies; I like the hard-core, challenging aspect of the game. Which should be accessible to anyone who wants to do it. Back in GuildWars(1), there were things called speed clears. If you had the skills, and a bit of money, you could gear properly for a reasonable cost and get into that challenging content. I like being challenged, but the only challenge we have with GuildWars2 right now is farming gold for hours. That is far from enjoyable. I have been playing since release, and life has made it that I have less hours to spend on the game. It doesn’t mean it should diminish my access to the challenging content I used to enjoy for the sole reason that I have less hours to consecrate to gold-farming in order to gold-sink for too-expensive armors.

anahiDelrey.7601:

That’s the thing; not all people who play on casual schedules are “casual” players. I don’t log in to play and chase butterflies; I like the hard-core, challenging aspect of the game. Which should be accessible to anyone who wants to do it. Back in GuildWars(1), there were things called speed clears. If you had the skills, and a bit of money, you could gear properly for a reasonable cost and get into that challenging content. I like being challenged, but the only challenge we have with GuildWars2 right now is farming gold for hours. That is far from enjoyable. I have been playing since release, and life has made it that I have less hours to spend on the game. It doesn’t mean it should diminish my access to the challenging content I used to enjoy for the sole reason that I have less hours to consecrate to gold-farming in order to gold-sink for too-expensive armors.

Well, if you are up for a challenge, playing content with less AR than suggested or undergeared seems to be just what you are looking for.

I dont see where your problem is.

And I am not saying this type of content should be easy to get; but it would be great if the difficulty was not just another amount of gold.

I am currently working towards getting Yggdrassil, the druid speciality reward, and so far, all steps have felt rewarding. Reaching another milestone by playing the Beetles adventure mini-game was much more fulfilling than stacking gold coins. These armors shouls be obtainable through accomplishment; playing the Game, and not playing the TP game. Balance revolves way too much around the economy.

Hopefully this system shifts for the better soon!

Wanze.8410:

anahiDelrey.7601:

That’s the thing; not all people who play on casual schedules are “casual” players. I don’t log in to play and chase butterflies; I like the hard-core, challenging aspect of the game. Which should be accessible to anyone who wants to do it. Back in GuildWars(1), there were things called speed clears. If you had the skills, and a bit of money, you could gear properly for a reasonable cost and get into that challenging content. I like being challenged, but the only challenge we have with GuildWars2 right now is farming gold for hours. That is far from enjoyable. I have been playing since release, and life has made it that I have less hours to spend on the game. It doesn’t mean it should diminish my access to the challenging content I used to enjoy for the sole reason that I have less hours to consecrate to gold-farming in order to gold-sink for too-expensive armors.

Well, if you are up for a challenge, playing content with less AR than suggested or undergeared seems to be just what you are looking for.

I dont see where your problem is.

That’s very untrue; not having enough AR makes you a dead weight for your party; quite litterally.

I think OP concern is that Guild Wars 2 is turning into Gold Wars 2.

Players who really play the game and not touching the TP will not earn as much as those who plays the TP solely. Unless that player spend a ton of time grinding gold or exchanging gems for gold.

(had a fren who solely plays the TP delicately and can afford a legendary after 2 weeks, he do not play PvE at all and now he already quit the game)

The incentive for the player base who sincerely want to play the game for its lore, feeling accomplished for building a legendary or what nots are neglected because of the emphasis importance of gold. I believe this is so because this is Anet’s way of monetization outside of the cosmetics options(gem to gold exchange)

Personally, I feel that the game is becoming more of an economics game, looking at the direction of decisions made by Anet such as Night Fury, precursor crafting, etc. Yes, it is an MMORPG whereby trading is or can be a big thing for player base but still, the amount of gold sink into TP is getting a bit ridiculous when player can never enjoy the content without having enough gold.

Before people mention about drops is there for those who plays the game and will eventually get it. But how long does a player have to endure the RNG before he/she can succumbs to the TP (e.g. 1st gen legendary – precursor RNG drop) ?

anahiDelrey.7601:

Wanze.8410:

anahiDelrey.7601:

That’s the thing; not all people who play on casual schedules are “casual” players. I don’t log in to play and chase butterflies; I like the hard-core, challenging aspect of the game. Which should be accessible to anyone who wants to do it. Back in GuildWars(1), there were things called speed clears. If you had the skills, and a bit of money, you could gear properly for a reasonable cost and get into that challenging content. I like being challenged, but the only challenge we have with GuildWars2 right now is farming gold for hours. That is far from enjoyable. I have been playing since release, and life has made it that I have less hours to spend on the game. It doesn’t mean it should diminish my access to the challenging content I used to enjoy for the sole reason that I have less hours to consecrate to gold-farming in order to gold-sink for too-expensive armors.

Well, if you are up for a challenge, playing content with less AR than suggested or undergeared seems to be just what you are looking for.

I dont see where your problem is.

That’s very untrue; not having enough AR makes you a dead weight for your party; quite litterally.

You are just dead weight, if you dont know what you are doing. But as you consider yourself a skillful player, i dont think you will have any problems.
I am no dungeon or fractal runner and i dont consider myself a skillfull player, either.
My fractal level is 16 or so and I play since launch of GW2. I remember completing lvl 29 fractals last year with 10 AR and i didnt die more than my party members.

Again, once you reached level 50 fractals, you should have got some ascended armor or weapon boxes from drops, where you can choose your stats or change them via exotic inscriptions.

The first raid wings also dont require ascended gear and will probably reward you with some pieces long before you need more AR than you can slab on your trinkets.

This has nothing to do with the economy but with game design in general.
Please keep in mind that most of the loot you get only has value because other (hardcore) players with more gold funds than you desire it. If you take that away, you will get less gold your your loot and doesnt really progress you faster towards your goal.

The only way this could be remedied is by lowering the material requirements for ascended gear in general while maintaining the droprate of the mats, so you can personally farm the mats on your casual schedule. But this would devalue all the mats to the point that they will be no demand for them on the tp and they will be traded for vendor value +15%. While then the game might be balanced, so you can farm enough mats on a daily basis for your gear, everybody who play more than you, will farm more mats than he needs, greating oversupply.

If nobody has to pay gold anymore to buy common goods, all the currency in game will be used to purchase luxury items, which will rise in price steeply.

I dont know if useless common mats and super expensive luxury items represent a desireable economy.

nobleroar.2078:

Players who really play the game and not touching the TP will not earn as much as those who plays the TP solely. Unless that player spend a ton of time grinding gold or exchanging gems for gold.
Personally, I feel that the game is becoming more of an economics game, looking at the direction of decisions made by Anet such as Night Fury, precursor crafting, etc. Yes, it is an MMORPG whereby trading is or can be a big thing for player base but still, the amount of gold sink into TP is getting a bit ridiculous when player can never enjoy the content without having enough gold.

I play the game, and I am having fun while doing it by the way, but I do not play the TP. I have more gold then I know what to do with. So that blows that out of the water. I don’t “grind” I just play doing what part I feel like doing when I log in, and I log in pretty much every day. I don’t rush to do everything all at once either. Oh I have been playing for 3 yrs, ever since the beta and headstart.

nobleroar.2078:

I think OP concern is that Guild Wars 2 is turning into Gold Wars 2.

Players who really play the game and not touching the TP will not earn as much as those who plays the TP solely. Unless that player spend a ton of time grinding gold or exchanging gems for gold.

(had a fren who solely plays the TP delicately and can afford a legendary after 2 weeks, he do not play PvE at all and now he already quit the game)

The incentive for the player base who sincerely want to play the game for its lore, feeling accomplished for building a legendary or what nots are neglected because of the emphasis importance of gold. I believe this is so because this is Anet’s way of monetization outside of the cosmetics options(gem to gold exchange)

Personally, I feel that the game is becoming more of an economics game, looking at the direction of decisions made by Anet such as Night Fury, precursor crafting, etc. Yes, it is an MMORPG whereby trading is or can be a big thing for player base but still, the amount of gold sink into TP is getting a bit ridiculous when player can never enjoy the content without having enough gold.

Before people mention about drops is there for those who plays the game and will eventually get it. But how long does a player have to endure the RNG before he/she can succumbs to the TP (e.g. 1st gen legendary – precursor RNG drop) ?

The only difference between me as a trader and the player who complains about me earning more gold through the trading post is that i list my items for a higher value on the tp and therefore get more gold in return.
If Average Joe sell his item to my buy order and I relist it undercutting by 1c, i make a profit. The same profit, that he could have gotten, would he have listed it for the same amount as me in the first place.

If he gets a endless bat tonic from one of the first t&t bags he opened this halloween and sells it for 50g to me, he could have listed it for 100g or 400g and it would have sold at the same time as mine would have sold.

What the difference between a trader that lists his wares for 300% over current market value and a farmer, who lists his wares for 300% of the current market value?

Actually the farmer/player, who earns the item has an advantage over the trader because he has dips on putting the first value on the item.

If he chooses to sell it for low value, its his choice and he has no right to complain, if someone else puts a higher value on it and another one agrees to that value in the future and pays it.

The economy isnt the problem, its your own personal choice that creates your own personal problem.

Wanze.8410:

nobleroar.2078:

I think OP concern is that Guild Wars 2 is turning into Gold Wars 2.

Players who really play the game and not touching the TP will not earn as much as those who plays the TP solely. Unless that player spend a ton of time grinding gold or exchanging gems for gold.

(had a fren who solely plays the TP delicately and can afford a legendary after 2 weeks, he do not play PvE at all and now he already quit the game)

The incentive for the player base who sincerely want to play the game for its lore, feeling accomplished for building a legendary or what nots are neglected because of the emphasis importance of gold. I believe this is so because this is Anet’s way of monetization outside of the cosmetics options(gem to gold exchange)

Personally, I feel that the game is becoming more of an economics game, looking at the direction of decisions made by Anet such as Night Fury, precursor crafting, etc. Yes, it is an MMORPG whereby trading is or can be a big thing for player base but still, the amount of gold sink into TP is getting a bit ridiculous when player can never enjoy the content without having enough gold.

Before people mention about drops is there for those who plays the game and will eventually get it. But how long does a player have to endure the RNG before he/she can succumbs to the TP (e.g. 1st gen legendary – precursor RNG drop) ?

The only difference between me as a trader and the player who complains about me earning more gold through the trading post is that i list my items for a higher value on the tp and therefore get more gold in return.
If Average Joe sell his item to my buy order and I relist it undercutting by 1c, i make a profit. The same profit, that he could have gotten, would he have listed it for the same amount as me in the first place.

If he gets a endless bat tonic from one of the first t&t bags he opened this halloween and sells it for 50g to me, he could have listed it for 100g or 400g and it would have sold at the same time as mine would have sold.

What the difference between a trader that lists his wares for 300% over current market value and a farmer, who lists his wares for 300% of the current market value?

Actually the farmer/player, who earns the item has an advantage over the trader because he has dips on putting the first value on the item.

If he chooses to sell it for low value, its his choice and he has no right to complain, if someone else puts a higher value on it and another one agrees to that value in the future and pays it.

The economy isnt the problem, its your own personal choice that creates your own personal problem.

FYI, no one is interested in pseudo economywhatever and no one is complaining you earning more gold or whatsoever, player base like you exist and there is no denying to it. There is also no denying that OTHER player bases exist as well. Balancing an MMORPG is tough and OP, etc are merely addressing their opinions here.

The existence of an economy is not a problem neither do I even mention or even finding it a problem.

The problem is how the economy impact has over player base and I am just primarily pointing out what OP concern might lies.

Ps. keep your beer chilled.

I think you are totally missing the point. The game should have more avenues than gold farming and economy play.

anahiDelrey.7601:

I think you are totally missing the point. The game should have more avenues than gold farming and economy play.

They’ve tried that multiple times. Every time they do that there are 1000 threads here complaining that Anet is “forcing” them into content, and “locking them out” of ever obtaining that particular thing.

So Anet makes the rewards tradable.

Then people complain that the item is too expensive. Of course they aren’t willing to do the work to get the item in the first place, so I don’t really see why they should be able to afford it.

It’s just an endless loop. The people who actually want/deserve something will earn/work for it, while everyone else will just whine that they don’t have it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It’s just an endless loop. The people who actually want/deserve something will earn/work for it, while everyone else will just whine that they don’t have it.

So, according to this statement, I do not deserve an item because I do not have the same hours to invest as a minority of player? I am currently working towards it, and Ascended Armor was already a lengthy process as it was, they have simply made it longer.

Basically, the people that they are aiming to hinder with making things “hard” to get will still get them; let’s face it, a 50 gold difference is not much to people whom have lots and lots of hours to dedicate to a game. But, what it really is doing, is making this much more out of reach of people who are actually able to get said items, but at the same time enjoy the game. I want to be rewarded for playing something difficult in a game. I do not want to have to plan out farming and make Ascended Armor my main focus, to a point where my whole play time consists of hopping from a lucrative spot to the other in order to maximize my gold income.

We are starting to see some of these things, which bring population to areas that were once barren prior to Heart of Thorns, because people actually like and want to do these scavenger hunts, that feel much less like the “I have a second job at home which consists of farming gold” pattern we were seeming to fall into. It is much more fun to run from a collection milestone to the other than constently farm the same things for ours in order to afford enough material for your time gated pieces.

And pertaining to casual players doing casual content, why did they nerf the gold reward from dungeons? That feels like cheap move which will render these instances much less populated than they should be. You do not shift focus in-game by bringing things down; you bring interesting things up with its own advantage.

Wanze.8410:

But this would devalue all the mats to the point that they will be no demand for them on the tp and they will be traded for vendor value +15%.

It’s actually vendor value +17,65%. This is of course not really relevant and I fully agree with what you were saying. It just hurt my eyes a little and I couldn’t resist but to correct it.

anahiDelrey.7601:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It’s just an endless loop. The people who actually want/deserve something will earn/work for it, while everyone else will just whine that they don’t have it.

So, according to this statement, I do not deserve an item because I do not have the same hours to invest as a minority of player? I am currently working towards it, and Ascended Armor was already a lengthy process as it was, they have simply made it longer.

Basically, the people that they are aiming to hinder with making things “hard” to get will still get them; let’s face it, a 50 gold difference is not much to people whom have lots and lots of hours to dedicate to a game. But, what it really is doing, is making this much more out of reach of people who are actually able to get said items, but at the same time enjoy the game. I want to be rewarded for playing something difficult in a game. I do not want to have to plan out farming and make Ascended Armor my main focus, to a point where my whole play time consists of hopping from a lucrative spot to the other in order to maximize my gold income.

We are starting to see some of these things, which bring population to areas that were once barren prior to Heart of Thorns, because people actually like and want to do these scavenger hunts, that feel much less like the “I have a second job at home which consists of farming gold” pattern we were seeming to fall into. It is much more fun to run from a collection milestone to the other than constently farm the same things for ours in order to afford enough material for your time gated pieces.

And pertaining to casual players doing casual content, why did they nerf the gold reward from dungeons? That feels like cheap move which will render these instances much less populated than they should be. You do not shift focus in-game by bringing things down; you bring interesting things up with its own advantage.

Not sure how it is longer. Ascended (light) armor is ~150g cheaper now than it was before HoT. Additionally there are now numerous achievements that grant ascended trinkets.

nobleroar.2078:

Wanze.8410:

nobleroar.2078:

I think OP concern is that Guild Wars 2 is turning into Gold Wars 2.

Players who really play the game and not touching the TP will not earn as much as those who plays the TP solely. Unless that player spend a ton of time grinding gold or exchanging gems for gold.

(had a fren who solely plays the TP delicately and can afford a legendary after 2 weeks, he do not play PvE at all and now he already quit the game)

The incentive for the player base who sincerely want to play the game for its lore, feeling accomplished for building a legendary or what nots are neglected because of the emphasis importance of gold. I believe this is so because this is Anet’s way of monetization outside of the cosmetics options(gem to gold exchange)

Personally, I feel that the game is becoming more of an economics game, looking at the direction of decisions made by Anet such as Night Fury, precursor crafting, etc. Yes, it is an MMORPG whereby trading is or can be a big thing for player base but still, the amount of gold sink into TP is getting a bit ridiculous when player can never enjoy the content without having enough gold.

Before people mention about drops is there for those who plays the game and will eventually get it. But how long does a player have to endure the RNG before he/she can succumbs to the TP (e.g. 1st gen legendary – precursor RNG drop) ?

The only difference between me as a trader and the player who complains about me earning more gold through the trading post is that i list my items for a higher value on the tp and therefore get more gold in return.
If Average Joe sell his item to my buy order and I relist it undercutting by 1c, i make a profit. The same profit, that he could have gotten, would he have listed it for the same amount as me in the first place.

If he gets a endless bat tonic from one of the first t&t bags he opened this halloween and sells it for 50g to me, he could have listed it for 100g or 400g and it would have sold at the same time as mine would have sold.

What the difference between a trader that lists his wares for 300% over current market value and a farmer, who lists his wares for 300% of the current market value?

Actually the farmer/player, who earns the item has an advantage over the trader because he has dips on putting the first value on the item.

If he chooses to sell it for low value, its his choice and he has no right to complain, if someone else puts a higher value on it and another one agrees to that value in the future and pays it.

The economy isnt the problem, its your own personal choice that creates your own personal problem.

FYI, no one is interested in pseudo economywhatever and no one is complaining you earning more gold or whatsoever, player base like you exist and there is no denying to it. There is also no denying that OTHER player bases exist as well. Balancing an MMORPG is tough and OP, etc are merely addressing their opinions here.

The existence of an economy is not a problem neither do I even mention or even finding it a problem.

The problem is how the economy impact has over player base and I am just primarily pointing out what OP concern might lies.

Ps. keep your beer chilled.

An MMO is about interacting with other players, trading with them is just that and Anet sees the trading post as an integral part of the game, they stated that many times.

If interacting with other players in various ways is not your cup of tea, maybe try solo rpgs.

Dengar.1785:

Disagree. Casuals can be skillful players as well. They just don’t play as much as hardcore players. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed an honest shot at difficult content.

This is exactly where I stand tbh

it’s rather obvious that anet is effectively bankrupting the player base. the actions are twofold(at least).

1) nerfing rewards for doing content…see here dungeons but also a devaluing of what is dropped in open world content (we shouldn’t discuss pvp because pvp’ers have always been paupers). simply put the mats and items that players aquire are worth less than they were before and the new ones, as well as many of the old, are channeled into never ending sinks (pre cursors being only the most notable).

2) they have put all loot on the gemstore. how does this impoverish the playerbase? simply put your gold(what little of it you have) is now effectively worthless. there may be an item or two on a wishlist but by and large the desirable items on tp are effectively out of reach of most players-making gold worthless.

if the game dropped numerous armor sets and weapon skins(as a paid expansion should) players would have a tremendous number of options for purchase…as it stands the veteran player has probably bought 90% of the skins they desire off the trading post-and there is nothing more in the pipeline.

why would they do this? a rather obvious push towards making all gear purchases thru the gem store. at the same time gem conversion via gold is frankly impossible(as everyone is broke)..time to whip out the credit card.

it really does feel sleazy and cheap particularly for a new expansion. they throttled the excitement and opportunity to delight a content starved player base..and instead spent their time designing systems to promote gem store sales (i’m not anti-gem store but i am against everything new being on the gem store).

notes-i do find it odd that they nerfed dungeons (content) and the traders are having a field day. wanze said he made 500 gold in one day-one wonders why they haven’t cracked down on the traders? a transaction limit should be rather easy to implement-the outliers will stand out from normal players.

Some people don’t realize this since they don’t talk much about it but…..

GW2 is one of the most Pay 2 Win games in MMORPG history…

How many other MMORPGs like GW2 literally say “input your credit card info and you can purchase straight up gold which directly means you can buy 99% of the rewards in this game”…..

That being said, Anet has made EVERY economic change/strategy with GEMSTORE in mind…

You think they want to benefit players lol? why do you think they stopped dungs from giving out gold?

because they want players to BUY GOLD WITH THEIR CREDIT CARD.
They DONT want you to farm it.

Anet won’t admit it obviously , but you are blind if you honestly believe anet prefers players to farm instead of buy with real $$…

This has been a long con played by the economy team….you take time to inflate the hell out of everything, look at how outrageous the prices are… you need hundreds and thousands of gold to buy the nice rewards now days…..

anet INTENTIONALLY let things get this bad because this is their behind the curtain goals… to get more players BUYING GOLD instead of farming…..

Let the prices get crazy high which they have been, now nerf the hell out of acquiring gold and add enough gold sinks to where gold becomes scarce and now , some of the newer players will be leaning towards opening their wallets to buy gold…

That was their plan imo….unless you have been farming and playing for years on a regular basis and have 1000+ gold supply, you are going to be screwed… aka new players are now screwed when it come to farming gold compared to veterans who had a stockpile of gold…

GW2 has one of the worst reward / economic systems in all of MMORPG and its all because of 1 thing: the gemstore.
Every economic change is designed with gemstore being the priority….anets goal is for you to open up your wallets…period.

Selkirk.4218:

it’s rather obvious that anet is effectively bankrupting the player base. the actions are twofold(at least).

1) nerfing rewards for doing content…see here dungeons but also a devaluing of what is dropped in open world content (we shouldn’t discuss pvp because pvp’ers have always been paupers). simply put the mats and items that players aquire are worth less than they were before and the new ones, as well as many of the old, are channeled into never ending sinks (pre cursors being only the most notable).

2) they have put all loot on the gemstore. how does this impoverish the playerbase? simply put your gold(what little of it you have) is now effectively worthless. there may be an item or two on a wishlist but by and large the desirable items are effectively out of reach of most players-making gold worthless.

if the game dropped numerous armor sets and weapon skins(as a paid expansion should) players would have a tremendous number of options for purchase…as it stands the veteran player has probably bought 90% of the skins they desire off the trading post-and there is nothing more in the pipeline.

why would they do this? a rather obvious push towards making all gear purchases thru the gem store. at the same time gem conversion via gold is frankly impossible(as everyone is broke)..time to whip out the credit card.

it really does feel sleazy and cheap particularly for a new expansion. they throttled the excitement and opportunity to delight a content starved player base..and instead spent their time designing systems to promote gem store sales (i’m not anti-gem store but i am against everything new being on the gem store).

notes-i do find it odd that they nerfed dungeons (content) and the traders are having a field day. wanze said he made 500 gold in one day-one wonders why they haven’t cracked down on the traders? a transaction limit should be rather easy to implement-the outliers will stand out from normal players.

Anet introduced plenty of new rewards that are easily obtainable in game, 2 new halloween armor skins (excluding nightfury), 4 new weapon skins, 3 new minis, craftable 2012 halloween weapons lost 50% value too.

Nevermind all the new rewards obtainable with HoT.
Gold income wasnt nerfed, it was taken from a fair few (dungeon runners) and it got spread around the player base, there is absolutely no indication, that less gold is entering the economy, which has nothing to do with credit cards, the gem exchange or traders like me because those dont generate gold and never have.

My profits come from other players who value their loot less than i do and then complain that they dont get enough.

what a noble fellow. his actions affect no one and he just amasses gold for the sake of it. but let’s assume not everyone is as kind and humble as wanze. what if some of the trading post flippers were gold sellers?

what if they were making tremendous amounts of money off of ridiculous trades (flax seeds) and selling that gold to a now impoverished player base. wouldn’t it make sense to get rid of the traders?

the dungeon runner who was told he is too rich has to now tolerate lectures from the tp flippers…more than a few eyes are rolling.

as to the new expansion and player rewards…wanze if you think 2 armor sets in a paid expansion is plenty-i don’t what to say to you. a shameless apologist? a fool? who knows and frankly who cares.

players know hot has next to nothing on the skin side. the expac not only has no loot but we now have less gold to purchase what little there actually is.

SkiTz.4590:

Some people don’t realize this since they don’t talk much about it but…..

GW2 is one of the most Pay 2 Win games in MMORPG history…

How many other MMORPGs like GW2 literally say “input your credit card info and you can purchase straight up gold which directly means you can buy 99% of the rewards in this game”…..

That being said, Anet has made EVERY economic change/strategy with GEMSTORE in mind…

You think they want to benefit players lol? why do you think they stopped dungs from giving out gold?

because they want players to BUY GOLD WITH THEIR CREDIT CARD.
They DONT want you to farm it.

Anet won’t admit it obviously , but you are blind if you honestly believe anet prefers players to farm instead of buy with real $$…

This has been a long con played by the economy team….you take time to inflate the hell out of everything, look at how outrageous the prices are… you need hundreds and thousands of gold to buy the nice rewards now days…..

anet INTENTIONALLY let things get this bad because this is their behind the curtain goals… to get more players BUYING GOLD instead of farming…..

Let the prices get crazy high which they have been, now nerf the hell out of acquiring gold and add enough gold sinks to where gold becomes scarce and now , some of the newer players will be leaning towards opening their wallets to buy gold…

That was their plan imo….unless you have been farming and playing for years on a regular basis and have 1000+ gold supply, you are going to be screwed… aka new players are now screwed when it come to farming gold compared to veterans who had a stockpile of gold…

GW2 has one of the worst reward / economic systems in all of MMORPG and its all because of 1 thing: the gemstore.
Every economic change is designed with gemstore being the priority….anets goal is for you to open up your wallets…period.

Take off the tinfoil hat please.

GW2 has EASILY the most efficient and functional MMO economy out there. Do you know what actual inflation looks like? Go scope what things cost in WoW now compared to three years ago. FF14 has absurd inflation and a horribly inefficient marketplace tied to each individual server, this is not a coincidence.

No offense Wanze, but thats terrible logic.

Tell, how did gold get spread around more???

Can you say with a straight face that its easier to make gold for a new player now compared to before??? You do realize dungeons were the best source of actual gold for new players…

LESS gold IS ENTERING the game now, thats a fact since they nerfed the biggest gold printing area (dungs) and added gold sinks as well (like the nightfury crap).

this is done for one reason and one reason ONLY: to get more players (specifically, new players) buying gold from the gemstore.

An MMO is about interacting with other players, trading with them is just that and Anet sees the trading post as an integral part of the game, they stated that many times.

If interacting with other players in various ways is not your cup of tea, maybe try solo rpgs.

do you even read ? -face palm-

You can say that trading is fun for you. It is okay because who am I to judge.
I can say that dungeon is fun for me. It is okay because who are you to judge.

Nvr did I mentioned anything about economy being bad nor did I say interaction is not my cup of tea but I will say maybe you can try economic focus games.

anyway, if it is Anet’s decision to make gw2 a TP-gold centric game whereby players will be wielding legendary greatsword of TP despite the wonderful lore, graphics, I can and I will walk away from Gw2. #justSaying

SkiTz.4590:

No offense Wanze, but thats terrible logic.

Tell, how did gold get spread around more???

Can you say with a straight face that its easier to make gold for a new player now compared to before??? You do realize dungeons were the best source of actual gold for new players…

LESS gold IS ENTERING the game now, thats a fact since they nerfed the biggest gold printing area (dungs) and added gold sinks as well (like the nightfury crap).

this is done for one reason and one reason ONLY: to get more players (specifically, new players) buying gold from the gemstore.

Its much easier to make gold running around HoT than it was before for a new player. You can sell items on the TP to the rich veterans who value their time more than their gold.

You need an Econ 101 lesson I think.

DisplacedTitan is correct, since the launch of HOT ive made about 80 gold, now i could make more if i put in more time but i wont.

displacedTitan.6897:

SkiTz.4590:

Some people don’t realize this since they don’t talk much about it but…..

GW2 is one of the most Pay 2 Win games in MMORPG history…

How many other MMORPGs like GW2 literally say “input your credit card info and you can purchase straight up gold which directly means you can buy 99% of the rewards in this game”…..

That being said, Anet has made EVERY economic change/strategy with GEMSTORE in mind…

You think they want to benefit players lol? why do you think they stopped dungs from giving out gold?

because they want players to BUY GOLD WITH THEIR CREDIT CARD.
They DONT want you to farm it.

Anet won’t admit it obviously , but you are blind if you honestly believe anet prefers players to farm instead of buy with real $$…

This has been a long con played by the economy team….you take time to inflate the hell out of everything, look at how outrageous the prices are… you need hundreds and thousands of gold to buy the nice rewards now days…..

anet INTENTIONALLY let things get this bad because this is their behind the curtain goals… to get more players BUYING GOLD instead of farming…..

Let the prices get crazy high which they have been, now nerf the hell out of acquiring gold and add enough gold sinks to where gold becomes scarce and now , some of the newer players will be leaning towards opening their wallets to buy gold…

That was their plan imo….unless you have been farming and playing for years on a regular basis and have 1000+ gold supply, you are going to be screwed… aka new players are now screwed when it come to farming gold compared to veterans who had a stockpile of gold…

GW2 has one of the worst reward / economic systems in all of MMORPG and its all because of 1 thing: the gemstore.
Every economic change is designed with gemstore being the priority….anets goal is for you to open up your wallets…period.

Take off the tinfoil hat please.

GW2 has EASILY the most efficient and functional MMO economy out there. Do you know what actual inflation looks like? Go scope what things cost in WoW now compared to three years ago. FF14 has absurd inflation and a horribly inefficient marketplace tied to each individual server, this is not a coincidence.

Take off the whiteknight shield.

GW2 is terrible economically. You don’t have this high of an inflation rate on a yearly basis without negligence from anet….They could have EASILY had counter-measures if they wanted to stop these outrageous prices (precursors into the 1000+ gold range now lol)

TP flippers and players since beta don’t have to worry since their wealth has been amassed already…. but for a new player? have fun farming hundreds of hours in one spot just to get ONE of the new armor skin sets…..you either farm for weeks or buy it from the gemstore….thats what this economy is now. There’s HARDLY ANY achievement based rewards (they need more things like Lumi armor that were acquirable without massive wealth…..)

Anet WANTS new players to open up their wallets to buy gold…. why the hell else would they bother making these recent economic changes which are CLEARLY MAKING IT HARDER for players who recently joined gw2 to make wealth….

Dante.1763:

DisplacedTitan is correct, since the launch of HOT ive made about 80 gold, now i could make more if i put in more time but i wont.

Did you LOOT/VENDOR 80g or did you SELL ITEMS AT TP for 80g?

The two things are completely different.

Galandil.9641:

Dante.1763:

DisplacedTitan is correct, since the launch of HOT ive made about 80 gold, now i could make more if i put in more time but i wont.

Did you LOOT/VENDOR 80g or did you SELL ITEMS AT TP for 80g?

The two things are completely different.

Little bit of both, probably 2-10g from the merchant selling all the sigils and such ive gotten, and the rest from the TP.

Wanze.8410:

anahiDelrey.7601:

Thank you for your reply, Dengar! It is my feeling, as well. Unfortunately, there has been a couple let-downs lately, and I do think as you do; we must voice it! Hopefully, that will be sooner than later; I want to be ready for the raids.

The first raid wings they will introduce dont need you to be in ascended gear.
And i would guess that by that time they introduce the final wings that need ascended gear, you will have enough drops of random ascended armor and weapon boxes from the first wings, wvw, pvp or lower level fractals, to have a full ascended built as you can change the stats on ascended gear for a cost that equals the cost of an exotic set.

Sounds like Alexander Normal and Alexander Savage in Final Fantasy XIV. Normal you really only need the bare minimum endgame gear equipped (think Exotic) while for Savage you need the best stuff available (think Ascended). Normal mode drops some of the best stuff available to help you get geared out for Savage.

If they’re going by that model, with the first wings of the Raids having high ascended equipment drop rates, then I really won’t have a problem with the raids coming, and it’ll help people gear out so we don’t have to do the annoying ascended crafting grind. If not, I think we should send a few Mordrem to Anet to see how fast they’ll change their minds. ;p

@Skitz

Here is a definition of inflation for you since you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

Inflation is defined as a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services. It is measured as an annual percentage increase. As inflation rises, every dollar you own buys a smaller percentage of a good or service.

Notice how it says GENERAL LEVEL, as in, not precursors which you cherry pick as a luxury good to hold up as inflation.

gw2spidy.com

Please use this site to prove how silly you are arguing about inflation. Feel free to check prices on commonly used items, you know, the ones that make armor and weapons to play the game with and not the luxury skin market you want to use as an example.

Econ 101, please sign up for it.

Dante.1763:

Little bit of both, probably 2-10g from the merchant selling all the sigils and such ive gotten, and the rest from the TP.

And that’s exactly what OP is saying.

If we get the best case scenario of your case, let’s say that you got 10g from vendoring/looting coing, and the rest, 70g, from TP.

That means that, from those 70g, you actually removed from the game around 12.35g.

So the net effect of your playing netted a -2.35g regarding the overall money in the economy of the game.

If we take instead 5g for vendoring and 75g from TP, the situation is worse ofc. It’s a -13.23g net.

Precursors and some ascended mats going up doesn’t qualify as general inflation.
Please read a bit on a subject before you talk about it.

+1 they need to make dark energy drop from ascended rings and increase ascended drops in fractals, or they can go get money from their hardcore junkies

I’m not sure what people are talking about I’m making more gold than I ever did in HoT.

I used to constantly hover below 10-20g, now I can actually build up to 30g, spend it, and build up to 30g again. Doing the same things I always did.

Question, any of you dungeon farmers, have you EVER tried doing fractals?

You people have strange logic.

displacedTitan.6897:

@Skitz

Here is a definition of inflation for you since you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

Inflation is defined as a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services. It is measured as an annual percentage increase. As inflation rises, every dollar you own buys a smaller percentage of a good or service.

Notice how it says GENERAL LEVEL, as in, not precursors which you cherry pick as a luxury good to hold up as inflation.

gw2spidy.com

Please use this site to prove how silly you are arguing about inflation. Feel free to check prices on commonly used items, you know, the ones that make armor and weapons to play the game with and not the luxury skin market you want to use as an example.

Econ 101, please sign up for it.

That doesn’t change the fact wealth has been made harder to acquire now….it hurts recent/new players BIG TIME….and now its going to be a major turn off to see how much these recent/new players are going to have to grind just to get a peice of the pie….

also, LUXURY GOODS are what most players are going to work towards…ya not all players are looking for precursors but look at all the gemstore skins (which is the goal for many players)….those prices are stupid as well..

I understand inflation just fine….what I don’t understand is why anet’s economic philsophy is getting more and more and more gemstore focused instead of keeping a balance….you think a lot of these players (who don’t have 1000+ saved in gold) are happy seeing the items they want going up to ridiculous prices WHILE the gold acquiring methods go down???

Dengar.1785:

I’m not sure what people are talking about I’m making more gold than I ever did in HoT.

I used to constantly hover below 10-20g, now I can actually build up to 30g, spend it, and build up to 30g again. Doing the same things I always did.

Question, any of you dungeon farmers, have you EVER tried doing fractals?

You people have strange logic.

lol I don’t know what others are talking about anymore.

fyi, I do fractals. \o/

Anyhow, I believe the issue is that the economy instead of bring people together seems to create a disparity amongst 2 different groups of player base as mentioned by OP.

Anet need to look at their player eco balance and definitely having a strong sense of what they want in their game can totally avoid threads like this or if they really want all types of player base, they got some serious work to go through.

Well, the economy is kind of unstable. The introduction of new materials as well as new things to craft (using both old AND new materials) increases demand for everything. Once the hardcore players have what they need, I expect the prices to drop a fair bit. Although I’m not sure how far they’ll drop.

displacedTitan.6897:

@Skitz

Here is a definition of inflation for you since you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

Inflation is defined as a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services. It is measured as an annual percentage increase. As inflation rises, every dollar you own buys a smaller percentage of a good or service.

Notice how it says GENERAL LEVEL, as in, not precursors which you cherry pick as a luxury good to hold up as inflation.

gw2spidy.com

Please use this site to prove how silly you are arguing about inflation. Feel free to check prices on commonly used items, you know, the ones that make armor and weapons to play the game with and not the luxury skin market you want to use as an example.

Econ 101, please sign up for it.

Oh, how I love the spouted half truths just trying to prove one’s own point.

Now tell me, mr econ 101, WHY inflation or deflation happens? Does it have any correlation to the overall amount of money available in a (closed, as is GW2 case) market? Or is it just correlated to the amount of goods available in the same market, with money bearing no influence over it?

If you have a basic knowledge of economy, as you say you have, you know perfectly well that the answer is the former.

What you don’t get is this:

- Prices on the TP for the same item are correlated to the demand/offer equilibrium point AND the overall money available to all players in the market.
- Prices of items bought at vendors are fixed, decided by Anet.
- Availability of money is decided by Anet, which acts as a central bank.

It’s safe to assume that a huge chunk of money injected in the game’s economy came from farming dungeons before the gold reward nerf. Now, that amount has been gutted by a huge margin. That means that, over time, the overall availability of money for players will decrease.

This in turn will create deflation, with prices of the most traded items on the TP lowering. Which would be okay, if not for the fact that some other items needed to craft luxury items, which are the final goal of this game, retain their vendor fixed price. So their relative cost will actually increase.

Moreover, since legendaries are luxury items, they will deflate their prices less than common items, due to scarce availability, which is the case even in the real world.

In the end, the poorer segment of players population will have two choices:

- Play more than before in order to get one of those luxury items.
- Get the money they need from the Gem Shop.

There’s a third one of course: stop playing the game.

displacedTitan.6897:

Econ 101, please sign up for it.

If only people who talked about anything economic related actually required this. Or the experience equivalent of it.

Gets rather sad to read all the armchair economist posts. I enjoy when John Smith steps in to set things straight, it is a shame he is busy. I am sure he could have a full time job just commenting on some of the absurdities that gets posted.

Galandil.9641:

In the end, the poorer segment of players population will have two choices:

- Play more than before in order to get one of those luxury items.
- Get the money they need from the Gem Shop.

There’s a third one of course: stop playing the game.

You had such good points before you stated this. By your own logic a deflation will start to happen in the market, that means the the items that new players are finding will start to be ‘valued’ more. This will help new players bringing the overall worth of each thing they find being more than had this happened. If liquid gold is removed from the economy like what happened with dungeons. The wealth between players will start to be traded between each other. This is a good thing because the value goes back to the ‘item’ rather than the piece of coin you getting running X dungeons a day.

Also stop saying people need to pay with a credit card to get their wealth. It makes you look like a childish whiner that does not understand what the gem system actually does.

talking about real world economic ‘principles’ (not an exact science btw) while discussing digital items is ludicrous. there certainly is an economy and that economy is built on driving gem store sales/gold buying.

but even this ‘economy’ changes rather dramatically at the drop of a hat based on needs for cash-and the need to drive players into certain areas(core areas not profitable anymore..hey buy hot! ). none of this is based on ‘economics’.

to pretend the gw2 ‘economy’ is based on rational rw economics is patently absurd.

notes-take the new dyes for instance…the white one is listing at around 100g. this price is artificial. if the dyes dropped in game (what an idea!) the price would be a fraction of this.

on it’s best day the gw2 economy works like some sort of mutant stock market (with traders as speculators)..to pretend it’s a functioning player driven economy is frankly lying.

Wanze.8410:

An MMO is about interacting with other players, trading with them is just that and Anet sees the trading post as an integral part of the game, they stated that many times.

If interacting with other players in various ways is not your cup of tea, maybe try solo rpgs.

I’m sorry but, an in-game window (The Trading Post) is ANYTHING but an interaction between player. It’s a system player can play with to get gold for their items, or get richer through dedicated market flipping. Sadly, everything revolves around it if you want to get something, now.

Getting together, in a group, accomplishing different steps to completing another component of a nice reward, is interaction.

Zypher.7609:

You had such good points before you stated this. By your own logic a deflation will start to happen in the market, that means the the items that new players are finding will start to be ‘valued’ more. This will help new players bringing the overall worth of each thing they find being more than had this happened. If liquid gold is removed from the economy like what happened with dungeons. The wealth between players will start to be traded between each other. This is a good thing because the value goes back to the ‘item’ rather than the piece of coin you getting running X dungeons a day.

Also stop saying people need to pay with a credit card to get their wealth. It makes you look like a childish whiner that does not understand what the gem system actually does.

First of all, it’s not childish, it’s childish to say the contrary. The only TWO means to get gold in GW2 are those: playing and converting gems on the shop.

Furthermore, it’s childish to offend your interlocutor as you just did, but luckily for you I’m too old to waste time on such stupid skirmishes, just because you don’t agree with my conclusion you should propose a counter-argument, not offend, the latter it’s what people do when they lack the former. And it’s not a great display of brightness.

Going back on topic, since you said yourself that you agree with my previous points, it’s clear that, if before we had to spend X to get a luxury item, and since you agree that luxury items will almost retain their current prices (or deflate, but way less than mundane items), that quantity X will remain the same, but the time required to get that money in game will increase.

And increasing the required time, some players will compensate that amount of time with buying from the gem shop. The relative quantity of money got from the shop instead from playing will be ofc a personal matter. But it can’t be denied that this move of gutting the most important generator of liquidity in game (dungeon runs) it’s done exactly for this purpose. And Anet it’s not here to let us have fun, their main interest is to make a profit.

In hindsight, probably the choice of focusing on Living Stories and trying to make profit on the shop instead of firing sooner a paid-for expansion was a bad idea.

Time will tell, if you want we can check out again in some months, and see if there has been a deflation for common items, while luxury items retained their prices. I’d bet on this, I’ll be happy to be disproved.

Selkirk.4218:

talking about real world economic ‘principles’ (not an exact science btw) while discussing digital items is ludicrous. there certainly is an economy and that economy is built on driving gem store sales/gold buying.

but even this ‘economy’ changes rather dramatically at the drop of a hat based on needs for cash-and the need to drive players into certain areas(core areas not profitable anymore..hey buy hot! ). none of this is based on ‘economics’.

to pretend the gw2 ‘economy’ is based on rational rw economics is patently absurd.

notes-take the new dyes for instance…the white one is listing at around 100g. this price is artificial. if the dyes dropped in game (what an idea!) the price would be a fraction of this.

on it’s best day the gw2 economy works like some sort of mutant stock market (with traders as speculators)..to pretend it’s a functioning player driven economy is frankly lying.

Your tinfoil hat needs to come off.

You are starting with your premise that this whole game is designed to make you purchase gems and convert to gold which is quite laughable considering the other conversion (gold to gems) gets used far more often. Go look at the graph for the conversion rates if you think that isn’t true. ANet is literally accomplishing the opposite of what you claim is their goal. Far more people choose to NOT pay real world money for gems and instead convert in game currency. 100% pure fail on your argument.

Lets look at those new dyes you bring up. The 100g price is absolutely the opposite of artificial, an artificial price would be if ANet put it on a vendor and made it cost 100g and you couldn’t trade it at all. That would decouple it completely from supply/demand cycles. INSTEAD you can gamble on them with gems OR buy them at 100g which is what THE MARKET decided that gamble is worth.

How is this hard to understand?