Guild Wars 2

I’m honestly angry with how HoT’s story turned out and hopefully, if Arenanet goes with this theory that I found (credit goes to Leallax.1482/salad-commander on Tumblr for figuring out most of the theory while I added in a few more speculations), it can make up for it.

Major spoilers obviously. Tread carefully.

So here goes:

Mordremoth is not dead.

And here are some reasons why:

1. It felt too easy and too fast.
At multiple times, the game says that Mordremoth is easily more powerful than Zhaitan.Yet with Zhaitan, it took a huge army along with foiling Risen spies, gaining artifacts that repelled dragon corruption, destroying it’s food and minion supply and lots of planning that felt like months to finally finish him off. With Mordremoth, we just had to leave our destroyed army behind, saw two people die, brought Glint’s egg to Tarir, discovered that apparently all the elder dragons have a weakness and took a small group of adventurers across the jungle to somehow waltz into the dream and poke Mordremoth’s mind AKA a big tubby lizard to death with our weapons. That’s just it. And it felt like just 3 days that this all happened with no effort.

2.So many unanswered questions.
Leah Hoyer herself hinted that the ideals between the Mordrem Guard and the Nightmare Court would be explored in the HoT storyline (as said in the Mordrem Guard Point of Interest) yet it never was. They didn’t even explain the differences between the Dream, the Nightmare and Mordremoth. Why?
Also, what happened to Malyck and his tree? What happened to Taimi in Rata Novus? What happened with all those politicial problems involving Queen Jennah in Divinity’s Reach? What happened to the Pale Tree? What happened to Logan, Zojja, Kasmeer and Rox? Did they get out ok? Hell, we didn’t even get an ending cinematic of everyone celebrating. All we got at the "end’’ was the egg absorbing the released magic and a few strips of dialogue.

3.Too much foreshadowing.
All through the story, NPCs kept saying ‘’What if this is bait?" “Is this a trap?” "Does Mordremoth know we’re coming?" And guess what happens? Zero. No traps. No ambushes. Not one event happened where I felt like Mordy was actively and aggressively wanting to murder us. And to quote Canach(he says this if you’re sylvari in Prisoners of the Dragon): Mordremoth loves surprises.
It’s obvious that he’s planning something big.

4. No changes happened with the jungle.
Mordremoth is said to be the whole jungle. Yet when we finished attacking his mind, the jungle doesn’t decay into some swamp-like land or whatever. It remains exactly the same and full of life.
Not to mention the Mordrem still walk around the jungle and attack Verdant Brink at night like they usually do on a daily basis.

5. Mordremoth can take over any sylvari’s thoughts.
As told by the devs and Canach, Mordremoth has the ability to plant thoughts in sylvari’s heads. After you dealt with his mind, he could’ve just put the idea that he was dead into Canach’s brain.(And yours too, if you were sylvari.)

6. Mordremoth is supposed to be the elder dragon of the mind.
Not to mention he, along with the other elder dragons, is said to be 10000000000+ years old. Surely he has alot of tricks up his sleeve.

“Oh, but we fought Mordremoth’s physical form in Dragon’s Stand!”
No, we didn’t. The Mouth of Mordremoth is supposed to be an EXTENSION of the jungle dragon rather than the dragon himself. And Laranthir even yells “Commander!” during the fight. So it’s said to be that the PC participated in the fight along with dozens of other players. (Which brings up another question: Does the Pact have multiple commanders?)

“But if he isn’t dead, why did all that magic release?”
Because Trahearne was literally plugged into Mordremoth. So when we destroyed the Marshal, all the magic that was stored around and even inside him was opened and released.
(And here’s something interesting: the devs pointed out that minions of Mordremoth can be cloned. We even saw what looked like Trahearne getting multiplied in the City of Hope cinematic. What if maybe, just maybe….the Trahearne we brought down wasn’t the actual Trahearne but rather a clone of him? …..Let’s save that theory for another time.)

“Mordremoth just underestimated us!”
Wrong. Mordremoth knows that we were strong enough to kill Zhaitan. If he had underestimated us, then he wouldn’t have brought down the Pact fleet.

“But Arenanet never mentioned Mordremoth being alive in The Road to 2015!”
I’m guessing because they don’t want to give away spoilers.

TL;DR We haven’t heard the last of Mordremoth and he will be back. He just wanted the Pact to think that he was dead so they would leave him alone and not get in the way of his plans. And the end of Hearts and Minds, Mordy managed to trick us into thinking we killed him, but it costed him some of the magic he consumed.

If you have any opinions on this theory, please reply.

Well it kinda makes sense to me and it would be rly nice to have a plot twist where mordremoth is still alive and fight him in a raid or something.

Since Zaithan is still dead, even though we had dozens of speculations that say otherwise and the devs saying he won`t come back (but then again, it is the devs and it is a bit hard to trust them if we talk about story related things), i would say:
Mordremoth is dead.

Zaithan was also supposed to be this all powerfull being. He wasnt supposed to be stupid at all and in the end was.
Even though he was depicted otherwise (infiltrating, etc.)

So right now, if we kill an Elder Dragon, then we kill an elder dragon.

I even say, good thing we kill it, so we dont have to bother with them anymore. However that is based on one problem we have in Guild Wars: great ideas, medicore implementations

I wish for a more complex and broad approach and the LS did it to a degree, but with HoT they threw everything out of the window and reduced it to the minimum steps required to kill the elder dragon.

If this was (again) just part one of him, then I dont care, as they could have easily put other storylines in HoT. Storylines they have teased again and again.
They only put in their new creations, from which two are somehow related to old GW1 characters. Which is nice, but sadly doesnt go beyond being references.

I was quite satisfied by the story, overall much more better than first PS even if short (i expected that)

Anyway if they would put such plot twist I wouldn’t be disappointed at all!

You’re not the only one thinking this actually. I thought the same thing after completing the story and Dragon Stand. It was too easy and left me with the feeling there will be more to come.

Well for point number 4, it doesn’t change for the sake of other players, and replay value. You wouldn’t want the whole HoT content to be reduced to a swampland. They could have made the ending cinematic reflect that, but that would break immersion badly. But yeah, the whole campaign with Mordy was disappointing, was really hoping for something more, at the epicness scale of Zhaitan’s campaign at least.

I also believe Mordy is alive and well. They set up an obvious trap, got us to kill Saladkitten. I really think the story is only beginning with HoT. I could be wrong and it would be very disappointing, but I have a feeling well be seeing more Mordy and Trahearn. I mean it couldn’t of been this easy, when you realize you are literally standing on the elder dragon in all the zones. He is huge, and fighting him shouldn’t be so simple as attacking his mind. What happnes to all the magic he ate? I really really doubt the story will just continue like nothing happened, and we are searching for another elder dragon. Expect at least another season of Mordy.

The plot seemed extremely forced at the end, and I was not at all satisfied with the final confrontation.

Zhaitan’s death was spread over a massive personal story… we had to cut his resources and literally starve him to death. With Mordremoth, the dragon leads us straight to the one plot device that allows us to stab an avatar of his brain. boo.

The reason it was forced is that Mordy forced you to charge in. His spread was vast but weak, he had to lure in our forces and destroy them, but once he did, he knew that was it. Since he is fused with the jungle movement is kind of hard. So his plan when he sensed that you have become corrupted by lay line energy is to trick you into thinking you’ve won and subtly confuse you in the future to compromise the security of Tyria. You yourself become the “villain” and you have to work tirelessly in season 4 to make up for your mistake. With Trahearn gone, you now control the largest army in Tyria. Once you’ve rebuilt, I’m sure something will go even worse than having the whole forward army get obliterated. The rata novus research will indicate that the dragon is probably alive, but the pc won’t believe it right away. (Due to Mordy subtly influencing your thoughts)

If I’m wrong, then this was a weird ending, but I still can’t believe that, it would make almost no sense. I mean just look at Scarlet, everyone when she was around thought she was some random sicko. Everyone was like: “Scarlet did it because she is CRAZY”. But they were building a much bigger plot. I’m sure we’ll find this is leading u to something big.

Loboling.5293:

The reason it was forced is that Mordy forced you to charge in. His spread was vast but weak, he had to lure in our forces and destroy them, but once he did, he knew that was it. Since he is fused with the jungle movement is kind of hard. So his plan when he sensed that you have become corrupted by lay line energy is to trick you into thinking you’ve won and subtly confuse you in the future to compromise the security of Tyria. You yourself become the “villain” and you have to work tirelessly in season 4 to make up for your mistake. With Trahearn gone, you now control the largest army in Tyria. Once you’ve rebuilt, I’m sure something will go even worse than having the whole forward army get obliterated. The rata novus research will indicate that the dragon is probably alive, but the pc won’t believe it right away. (Due to Mordy subtly influencing your thoughts)

If I’m wrong, then this was a weird ending, but I still can’t believe that, it would make almost no sense. I mean just look at Scarlet, everyone when she was around thought she was some random sicko. Everyone was like: “Scarlet did it because she is CRAZY”. But they were building a much bigger plot. I’m sure we’ll find this is leading u to something big.

Well, she went coockoo for cocopops.
She had an external force, that caused it and the devil on her shoulder, but she went crazy.
Crazy in terms of doing something a normal person wouldnt do.

The one behind the curtain could have been mordremoth or someone else (still not 100% confirmed).

For the ending of Mordremoth however… meh, to be honest. With so many loose plotthreads I bet this one will bite the dust as well.
His dead is just one big X on the checklist.

I think he’s dead. Honestly, I thin ArenaNet is realizing that creating a story around 6 magical all powerful elder dragons and only having enough resources and manpower to release one expansion (and two LS seasons) in a 3 year timespan is gonna mean we won’t be rid of all of them for at least another ten years. This means they cannot take the story anywhere else because people will wonder, okay what about the dragons? Are we just going to do x story and pretend the elder dragons are taking a break? I excpect more rushed kills in the future because I’m sure they understand that releasing another 4 expansions in which we kill a dragon isn’t going to get really old really fast.

I think he’s dead, basically for the same reason Verificus says. I say the same thing anytime someone thinks Zhaitan is still alive: We have too much work still to do with the other dragons to think about going backwards.

I don’t think the other dragons will get quite the same dragged-out build-up as Modremoth, because Scarlet’s story winded and turned a very long way before getting to the point. I don’t think they’ll go on that long leading into the next dragon, both because they learned some narrative lessons from Season 1, and because they have the groundwork laid for the next expansion. (Business model, mastery system, elite specs, etc.)

There’s a chance that Modremoth and Zhaitan will appear “alive” in some form or other “at the end,” if the Elder Dragons are part of some grand conspiracy tied up with the fabric of the world, but for narrative purposes, I think they’re dead. I’m okay with that, and ready to move on to fighting something other than Modrem for a while.

I think this is interesting but I want to break down your points because there are a few false assumptions here and there.

AESOkami.1072:

1. It felt too easy and too fast.
At multiple times, the game says that Mordremoth is easily more powerful than Zhaitan.Yet with Zhaitan, it took a huge army along with foiling Risen spies, gaining artifacts that repelled dragon corruption, destroying it’s food and minion supply and lots of planning that felt like months to finally finish him off. With Mordremoth, we just had to leave our destroyed army behind, saw two people die, brought Glint’s egg to Tarir, discovered that apparently all the elder dragons have a weakness and took a small group of adventurers across the jungle to somehow waltz into the dream and poke Mordremoth’s mind AKA a big tubby lizard to death with our weapons. That’s just it. And it felt like just 3 days that this all happened with no effort.
————
“Oh, but we fought Mordremoth’s physical form in Dragon’s Stand!”
No, we didn’t. The Mouth of Mordremoth is supposed to be an EXTENSION of the jungle dragon rather than the dragon himself. And Laranthir even yells “Commander!” during the fight. So it’s said to be that the PC participated in the fight along with dozens of other players. (Which brings up another question: Does the Pact have multiple commanders?)

The personal story and the events that take place in the real maps take place woven around each other. Mordy was busy with the “Mouth of Mordremoth” event in Dragon’s Stand and was hellbent on consuming ley-line energy and killing the army of pact specialists who pushed through its defenses. It’s fairly clear that the Mouth is Mordy’s physical body (seems silly to try to argue otherwise because it doesn’t say it’s an extension anywhere), but since its mind can reside outside of this body, it can constantly regrow the Mouth. The attack on Mordy on its mind is similar to Snaff’s attempt at controlling Kralkatorrik and that fight did not require an entire army.

2.So many unanswered questions.
Leah Hoyer herself hinted that the ideals between the Mordrem Guard and the Nightmare Court would be explored in the HoT storyline (as said in the Mordrem Guard Point of Interest) yet it never was. They didn’t even explain the differences between the Dream, the Nightmare and Mordremoth. Why?
Also, what happened to Malyck and his tree? What happened to Taimi in Rata Novus? What happened with all those politicial problems involving Queen Jennah in Divinity’s Reach? What happened to the Pale Tree? What happened to Logan, Zojja, Kasmeer and Rox? Did they get out ok? Hell, we didn’t even get an ending cinematic of everyone celebrating. All we got at the "end’’ was the egg absorbing the released magic and a few strips of dialogue.

I think the purpose of the unanswered questions is to give the Raid and Living World Season 3 some story elements to play with.

3.Too much foreshadowing.
All through the story, NPCs kept saying ‘’What if this is bait?" “Is this a trap?” "Does Mordremoth know we’re coming?" And guess what happens? Zero. No traps. No ambushes. Not one event happened where I felt like Mordy was actively and aggressively wanting to murder us. And to quote Canach(he says this if you’re sylvari in Prisoners of the Dragon): Mordremoth loves surprises.
It’s obvious that he’s planning something big.

I think Mordy tried and failed.

4. No changes happened with the jungle.
Mordremoth is said to be the whole jungle. Yet when we finished attacking his mind, the jungle doesn’t decay into some swamp-like land or whatever. It remains exactly the same and full of life.
Not to mention the Mordrem still walk around the jungle and attack Verdant Brink at night like they usually do on a daily basis.

Post-Zhaitan’s death Tequatl still rises and attacks, and the Risen are still in control of Orr. Simply put: these maps take place before Zhaitan’s and Mordy’s deaths.

5. Mordremoth can take over any sylvari’s thoughts.
As told by the devs and Canach, Mordremoth has the ability to plant thoughts in sylvari’s heads. After you dealt with his mind, he could’ve just put the idea that he was dead into Canach’s brain.(And yours too, if you were sylvari.)

The sylvari player character is shown continuously fighting against Mordy’s influence. A sylvari can differentiate between their own thoughts and Mordy’s thoughts, unless they don’t want to.

6. Mordremoth is supposed to be the elder dragon of the mind.
Not to mention he, along with the other elder dragons, is said to be 10000000000+ years old. Surely he has alot of tricks up his sleeve.

Destiny’s Edge was close to killing Kralkatorrik and we already killed Zhaitan. Clearly the Elder Dragons aren’t used to the level of resistance that modern Tyria is putting out against them.

“But if he isn’t dead, why did all that magic release?”
Because Trahearne was literally plugged into Mordremoth. So when we destroyed the Marshal, all the magic that was stored around and even inside him was opened and released.
(And here’s something interesting: the devs pointed out that minions of Mordremoth can be cloned. We even saw what looked like Trahearne getting multiplied in the City of Hope cinematic. What if maybe, just maybe….the Trahearne we brought down wasn’t the actual Trahearne but rather a clone of him? …..Let’s save that theory for another time.)

That was clearly Mordy’s life and magical energy being released after its death. Although it wasn’t shown during the personal story, Zhaitan released something similar due to Tequatl becoming more powerful after its death. And in The All cinematic it shows Zhaitan’s energy seeping throughout the world in a similar manner.

“Mordremoth just underestimated us!”
Wrong. Mordremoth knows that we were strong enough to kill Zhaitan. If he had underestimated us, then he wouldn’t have brought down the Pact fleet.

“But Arenanet never mentioned Mordremoth being alive in The Road to 2015!”
I’m guessing because they don’t want to give away spoilers.

TL;DR We haven’t heard the last of Mordremoth and he will be back. He just wanted the Pact to think that he was dead so they would leave him alone and not get in the way of his plans. And the end of Hearts and Minds, Mordy managed to trick us into thinking we killed him, but it costed him some of the magic he consumed.

If you have any opinions on this theory, please reply.

And Zhaitan probably knew about the efforts against Kralkatorrik and how they almost succeeded. Didn’t change the fact that we still took down Zhaitan. I’m guessing the attack against the Pact fleet took a lot of effort because we don’t see that level of attack from Mordy again.

Loboling.5293:

I mean just look at Scarlet, everyone when she was around thought she was some random sicko. Everyone was like: “Scarlet did it because she is CRAZY”. But they were building a much bigger plot. I’m sure we’ll find this is leading u to something big.

This bugs me a lot about the GW2 story. For every one mystery ArenaNet, after years of teasing, finally solve…they introduce far more.

So we met the big bad and we’re supposed to think we defeated him. Maybe we did. Who knows?

Malyck wasn’t explained.
Nightmare Court was hardly spoken of.
What have the Mursaat got to do with the Exalted? Enchanted Armours? Floaty creatures? I’m not buying that there’s zero connection.
Who is the Mysterious Stranger from the Living Story?
Who is E?

…is E the Mysterious Stranger from the Living Story?

Did the Consortium really fund the Tower of Nightmares, and Scarlet’s invasions?
Why did the Consortium do this?

The list of things we’d all like answers to grows and grows. Like a Blighting Tree.

The story did feel short to me, and it really felt like other things could have been explored. Nightmare Court’s relationship with Mordremoth and Malyck in particular. Maybe these will be incorporated into the story of the Raids, or into the eventual Living Story releases. To me, it just feels like it should have been here already.

Possible thread to keep Mordremoth alive could be inside Canach. If you take him with you to fight Mordremoth he ends up fighting a corrupted verison of himself. Once defeated the rift does not absorb the corrupted Canach but instead pull the 2 of them together molding the 2 into one. Canach then sates that he has/will master himself but for all we know Mordremoth could have just planted a corrupted seed into Conoch much like he did with Thrahearne.

Could be a nice thread they could use to pull at our heart strings later as Canach is becoming well liked by many of the community unlike Thrahearne.

Why not? If Mordremoth isn’t really dead, I would have fun on further fights. Maybe I was a lucky one, because I hadn’t have any bugs during the whole story. Storywise I would really like to sea what happens after the fight. At the moment the End of the story is very unsatisfying, I want to know how the Tyria reacts on this “victory” and the big losses. In the first personal story you see a party and fireworks everywhere. At the End of the new story Caithe and Canach has said it’s quiet now in their mind, before that, Mordremoth has almost broken your character’s mind (if played sylvari). This part was one of my favourite aspect of the story. As an example in Lord of the Rings, Sauron didn’t died in great battle in the second age, but everybody believed that he came back at the end of the third age. So there is still a missing Malyck and his tree, Mordremoth could spread his seeds in them too like he did on trahearne. And there was a special Mordrem in the video at the very beginning before you enter the new zones, neither I haven’t seen him in the story until now nor I know what he is.

I’ve played the story with my female Sylvari, and there are many open questions left. Well, unlike other players my prime interest lies here on Canach. I would like to know what will happen with him. My character like his company and I was worried about him. I didn’t know him from the living story season 1, so I didn’t have any opinion on him. Sometimes it seems that they are flirting and caring each other. But I suppose that isn’t Anet’s intention, I blame the language barrier. It would be a new experience in my 8 years mmorpg time, that a hero has a npc companion. But according to the new death rate in this game, I expect rather an execution of him.

Hes dead, lets go get the next one please!

Do a big final send off to Traeherne(even you dont like him, hes the pact marshal, that alone should be enough) And then we go slay another of these big beasties!

I have to agree with “I See no Tommorow” and “Verifucis”

I think the problem is that the PS doesn’t make you do zone meta events. If you consider the timeline for the story where you go into Dragon’s Stand through the personal story, do the meta, then continue to the story, it makes sense and makes Mord seem more formidable, but since ANet doesn’t want to force the storyline to make you do zone map stuff, it seems like we just swiftly ran in there and killed him.

And Mord is dead, he’s dead. His energy exploded in three directions and something absorbed some of it.

The big question that hangs, ever since Zhaitan is whether or not the dragons can be replaced. Can something absorb their power and take their place.

hardy.7469:

I think the problem is that the PS doesn’t make you do zone meta events. If you consider the timeline for the story where you go into Dragon’s Stand through the personal story, do the meta, then continue to the story, it makes sense and makes Mord seem more formidable, but since ANet doesn’t want to force the storyline to make you do zone map stuff, it seems like we just swiftly ran in there and killed him.

And Mord is dead, he’s dead. His energy exploded in three directions and something absorbed some of it.

The big question that hangs, ever since Zhaitan is whether or not the dragons can be replaced. Can something absorb their power and take their place.

We’ve known that since LS2. Ogden said in no uncertain terms that Glint was well on her way to succeeding Kralkatorrik. It’s the entire reason the egg is so important.

This is going to be the new “We didn’t kill Zhaitan” isn’t it

Something not talked about a lot is that the Sylvari were made by Mordy. Given that case and that they focused so heavily and played such an important role in destroying Zaitan, we should conclude that Mordy wanted to destroy Zaitan. If this is the case, it is logical to assume that there is only so much magic in Tyria and the dragons are competing for it. Did Mordy do all this, just to be destroyed. Maybe there was another power at work. Maybe the exalted are servants of another dragon, and they tricked you and helped you destroy Mordy. If that is the case, I feel we’ll end up in a strange and repetitive story. I would much rather Mordy having a greater plan. When I fell off a cliff and died in the jungle and fell onto the weirdest ground I’ve ever seen, only to learn that it was Mordy, I realized this dragon would not be easy to kill. If it was this easy, I’d be disappointed. We shall probably find out more sometime next year. I’m guessing season 4 comes out in january sometime.

Redenaz.8631:

There’s a chance that Modremoth and Zhaitan will appear “alive” in some form or other “at the end,” if the Elder Dragons are part of some grand conspiracy tied up with the fabric of the world, but for narrative purposes, I think they’re dead. I’m okay with that, and ready to move on to fighting something other than Modrem for a while.

This is probably what will happen. If you notice, when Mordy dies, he screams “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?” From the way it sounded, it wasn’t a scream that he can’t believe you killed him, but rather a scream of what will happen BECAUSE you killed him. Recalling a cutscene back in the Season 2 Living Story, we saw the Eternal Alchemy and all the dragons seemed to be linked to it, with Mordy even looking at us through it. We’re messing with the natural order here in some way, and it probably won’t end well for Tyria.

Look, it is probably time I said it….

….

I am Mordremoth.

I hope Mordemoth is really dead. I liked it as a villain and enjoyed the storyline, but it came to an end. I think having a “Nope, gotcha!” about the progress we made would be kind of frustrating, and would call into question anything our characters achieved because we would know the writers might casually undo it at some later point.

I also don’t want to endlessly fight the same elder dragon. I’d rather move on to new opponents and new stories. Mordremoth got basically two seasons of living story and an expansion. As I said, I enjoyed all of it… but at this point I’m ready to move on to another story.

Completely agree with OP. I’ve said before Mordremoth dying on day 2 of “Heart of Thorns” Is like if Arthas was killed on day 2 of Wrath of the Lich King. If we actually did beat Mordremoth the writers really need to think about ways to make it much more convincing. Mordremoth had so many ways to easily prevent what happened so if it wasn’t a trap/plan that’s just some bad writing.

Or another comparison. Imaging if Sauron died in the first chapter of LotR. Or if Voldemort died in the first book of Harry Potter. What would you expect from the rest of the series? If Mordremoth is actually gone I will be extremely disappointed.

what anoyed me most was how cliffhanger the ending was: thrahearne dead, jungle dying, Glint egg shining.

puff, back to open world, i was like “wait, thats it?” seriusly?. i sure kitten hope arenanet has some kind of epilogue waiting for us soon, because that was just too imcomplete.

it was like if you were throw directly into open world after Zaithan fell into the abyss, or being sent back into open world right after Scarlet´s End cinematic.

no epilogue, no thanks message from a important npc at our mail, no nothing, we are just mean to accept what we saw at the end and leave it like that

AESOkami.1072:

1. It felt too easy and too fast.

You’re forgetting the massive battle happening directly above you by the reconstituted Pact forces. I’ll admit that I also wasn’t aware of this, since I didn’t do any of the meta event stuff in that zone, I was just pushing forward with the story by then. Someone mentions it extremely briefly, and in passing, that Mordremoth is being distracted by the army attacking him far above you. That’s the meta event, a full blown battle against Mordremoth’s physical body, or at least some representation of it. So the whole Pact is involved while you sneak in the back door.

Also, Mordremoth doesn’t need eyes because he’s basically everywhere, and he doesn’t need mouths because he has a Leyline node feeding straight into him.

2.So many unanswered questions.

Expect to get most of these answered in LS3

3.Too much foreshadowing.

Mordremoth is not nearly so subtle as all that from everything I’ve seen so far. He’s not a chess player, he’s just got a ton of minions. The Sylvari situation was a nice trick, but once that card was played he really didn’t have anything left over.

4. No changes happened with the jungle.

You mean like how Orr has completely cleared of undead since the fall of Zhaitan? Oh wait, that didn’t happen, because the game wouldn’t work if that were the case.

5. Mordremoth can take over any sylvari’s thoughts.

That’s not actually how it works. If you played a Sylvari you would understand that he’s just a very strong presence, and if you let yourself go he dominates you. Interestingly enough this is very similar to how the Nightmare works because apparently if you like Nightmare in you never escape. It’s also how Jormag works, if you make a deal with him and let him in you become his puppet.

6. Mordremoth is supposed to be the elder dragon of the mind.

Where did this come from? Mordremoth is the nature dragon. It just turns out that his mind is his weak point.

“Oh, but we fought Mordremoth’s physical form in Dragon’s Stand!”

Like I said, this was a distraction.

“But if he isn’t dead, why did all that magic release?”

So, the magic released, not because he died, but instead because he died? That’s all I got out of that.

We saw precisely how cloning works, and also that Mordremoth had no capacity, nor inclination for independent thought. If Trehearne had been a clone it would have been obvious. You make this claim that Mordremoth is somehow smart, but he’s more conceited then smart. He doesn’t do anything clever, he just makes power plays.

“Mordremoth just underestimated us!”

Actually Mordremoth knows that the Pact killed Zhaitan, and the first thing he does is eliminate the Pact as a serious threat. He has no reason to assume it was one specific individual who actually did all the work because that’s not, technically, how it went down. It is very likely, and consistent with how he acts through his minions, that he does not consider any one individual to be that big of a threat until it’s already too late.

Personally, I never saw Zhaitan’s corpse. I say him fall off a sky scraper into the fog, but I honestly have no reason to suspect that physical damage is any kind of legitimate inhibition to an undead elder dragon. The Priory collected his tail, which was shot off of him, but where’s the rest? I’ve never really been convinced Zhaitan is dead, so it’s easy to question this. We’ll just have to wait and see, but personally I think it’s going in a different direction than you’ve laid out.

Terrible story, so forced and contrived. We go to an Asura city where they research the elder dragons and learnt they all have a weakness …. no really, sounds more like we asked some fortune teller by the beach.
Then we go into his mind almost unopposed as Traherne can magically and very conventionally make a portal just before he is fully transformed. That was good timing ….

Mizzrym.1326:

Terrible story, so forced and contrived. We go to an Asura city where they research the elder dragons and learnt they all have a weakness …. no really, sounds more like we asked some fortune teller by the beach.
Then we go into his mind almost unopposed as Traherne can magically and very conventionally make a portal just before he is fully transformed. That was good timing ….

Not to mention that we can for some reason be stronger than Mordremoth in the dream he created out of nowhere. Plus we know how to use rifts to suck in blighted copies (really what is this?) and make them our allies. It doesn’t make sense in so many ways and if it wasn’t part of Mordremoth’s plan it honestly makes no sense at all.

It felt like they planned to make a great story but then were forced to get to an quick end. I mean the whole story was more like “let’s rescue our friends” and in the next moment you just kill mordremoth. Sorry that was such a miserable jump in the story and it ruined it. So many things were missing and it was rather short. I guess they will continue it with the living story.

To me it really looked like devs were forced to come to a quick end there because of release or so. Terrible decision if that’s the case.

… the twist is, for all their evil the Elder Dragons are actually the anti-heroes of the piece. They’re sucking up the magic to prevent something even worse from waking: the Elder Gods! And as we kill the dragons we’re getting closer to the day when mighty Cthulhu shall rise from his eternal slumber and consume us all! Iaaa! Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!

Ok this is my opinion but i would like to give my 2 cents on 2 aspects, then that would make 4 cents no? Anyways!

Elder dragons in general:
They are known to be forces of nature becoming active on a regular cycle, they wake, feed destroy then goes back to sleep again.
Since (for what i get from the lore and the compromise for the sake of gameplay) we killed Zaithan the events of Orr and the undeads are still present on the map because we did kill Zaithan for that cycle but we cant completely erase it from reality so in the end i wouldnt be surprised to see him rise once again when the new cycle begins but for now its body is gone, its magic, the part that we cant erase is still running on battery power COULD explain why we still chop undeads today. This general fact would apply on every single elder dragon.

Mordremoth:
Dragon of the mind, this statement just feels stupid and i will tell you why. My main character is a warrior Charr yielding Volcanus and pretty much focus on chopping things up, if i had to go against the force of nature representing the “mind and intellect” well there is a great chance i will be under qualified… Also if Mordremoth is the dragon of the mind then why attack him where he is the strongest, without a plan and hope it will work?

Now if you told me Mordremoth was the physical dragon, the apex in fitness and physical form, consuming magic to expand its mass and grasp over the land instead of using it to reanimate corpses or use apocalyptic storms to waste everything, well i would totally dig that.
Since the beginning the more we cut the more it regrows and despite everything we tried nothing seems to really affects the roots all over Tyria, because of that then “lets hack his hivemind” because on the physical part of thing were not doing too good.
Another thing i noted and i can make sense with simple common sense, Mord is trying to set a mind control over the Sylvaries, not because it is its strong suit but for the complete opposite. The pale tree is a hive mind on its own and since Moredmoth weakness would be his own intellect, it makes complete sense to impress everyone by showing that you can remotely control your direct competition and thus bluffing your greatest weakness into your greatest strength.

They were on the right path but they way they did it just feels wrong and out of sense, a small tweak over the elements or word play would have made a world of difference.

You know that the original plot for GW2 was angels and demons ascending/emerging to judge living beings? I would not be surprised if this is what happens when all Elder Dragons will die, we’re murdering nature after all.

Amineo.8951:

You know that the original plot for GW2 was angels and demons ascending/emerging to judge living beings? I would not be surprised if this is what happens when all Elder Dragons will die, we’re murdering nature after all.

That sounds more like Diablo 3.

Actually I don’t recall any of that nonsense when we killed Zhaitan.

Root in place…spam 1…ignore AOE poison…win…wait for living world.

To kill Mordy completely, we would have to burn the entire Maguuma.

I thought the magic entering the egg was a sign that the egg was corrupted, and would become mordremoths get out of jail free card, which would be one of the primary reasons he wanted it in the first place.

If you pay attention it states that he is was distracted with a battle elsewhere. That battle is a battle on Dragon’s Stand. I would recommend playing the Dragon’s Stand event for the full effect.

Megane.2103:

I thought the magic entering the egg was a sign that the egg was corrupted, and would become mordremoths get out of jail free card, which would be one of the primary reasons he wanted it in the first place.

Prediction: Glints egg is absorbing all the magic from all the deaths of the elder dragons and when it gets all 6 it will hatch.

I spent the whole time thinking “why doesn’t he just collapse the vines around us?” is he that ignorant of our location? I guess the line about him being focused on the pact forces kind of excuses that. When you’re so large it’s hard to pay attention to smaller details.

Short answer : If Mordremoth isnt the ultimate Raid Boss for this Expansion until a new Set of Raids comes out iam VERY dissapointed.

He may not be dead in the physical sense.

In the story it was suggested we just burn down the whole jungle and every place he is at.
But that idea is rejected as mord is so many places & too large.

However since we only fought his mind in the dream he could just be brain dead or comatose.

Thus his body is likely still alive & his minions are still around, they just aren’t getting any new orders from Mord himself.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

He may not be dead in the physical sense.

In the story it was suggested we just burn down the whole jungle and every place he is at.
But that idea is rejected as mord is so many places & too large.

However since we only fought his mind in the dream he could just be brain dead or comatose.

Thus his body is likely still alive & his minions are still around, they just aren’t getting any new orders from Mord himself.

We fight his physical body at the end of the Dragon’s Stand meta event. At the end of the fight it tries to escape before seizing and slumping over dead. He’s probably more dead than Zhaitan considering we bomb him, blow up his brain, and a chunk of the magic he ate is absorbed by the egg.

When I was fighting the Mouth it suddenly occurred to me where I had seen this fight before. By no means am I implying the devs copied it, there really is no relationship in that sense, but rather the concept appeared identical.
At the end of the Wheel of Time series the main enemy had been cornered. The Hero of the story was on the verge of destroying it when they were tricked into believing the death of the enemy would leave the world in some sort of limbo, utterly in absence of evil, but without any way to sense what is good. This was accomplished during a mind-game the Antagonist and Protagonist played with each other. Ultimately the Antagonist convinced the Protagonist not to kill them because “the world needed them” (paraphrasing).

It would be likely that some gazillion year old god would have some ideas what mortals do with their fifty years of productive life and attempts to counter various antagonisms. “Her-her… the mortals are trying to be clever again. Look, this one even has a 220 IQ. Too bad it has to struggle to push the rest toward even realizing I’m a threat. There’s what? Half a billion of these little things this time? That’s 55,000,000 IQ points all between them. I’ve got 100,000,000,000,000 years experience… Excuse me a moment… HAAAA- CHEW!!” extinction event!

So, Scarlet, a mere living form and a puppet, a minion, makes a war that last for 1 or 2 years in real time, and this Elder so Powerful dragon, the real deal, the Big Boss, just struggle for a week? Seriously I need more of Mordremoth, we deserve this or the whole Heart of Thorns tittle lose all the sense. Maybe too early to complain? The time will tell then….I was having fun with the story, is a shame that “ended” this way.

MeNDoX.8031:

So, Scarlet, a mere living form and a puppet, a minion, makes a war that last for 1 or 2 years in real time, and this Elder so Powerful dragon, the real deal, the Big Boss, just struggle for a week? Seriously I need more of Mordremoth, we deserve this or the whole Heart of Thorns tittle lose all the sense. Maybe too early to complain? The time will tell then….I was having fun with the story, is a shame that “ended” this way.

Actually, the “fight” with Mordremoth took months if you follow the LS from the events that leads to Dry Top, at the start of Mordrem attacks, the tendrils invasions on other regions, waypoints destroyeds, and so on…

When the commander (you, me and everyone else) and his group made their way to find the Dragon, it was inevitable that an end wouldn’t happen, like the path on to lvl 0 to 80 then fighting Zaithan, unless Anet have something for us like Mordy still living, i think in future living stories, more secondary enemies will emerge, like Scarlet… even tied to Mordremoth.

Hows your repackaged DLC going.

You probably need to realize that Mordy probably used a lot of ley-line energy to take down the Pact Fleet. Do you really think he didn’t use any energy at all? It’s like you having unlimited ammo and taking down the enemy without reloading. If that was the case, Mordy would have taken down Rata Sum and Divinity Reach without any issue as Mordy would be able to spawn hordes and hordes of Mordrem to overwhelm any army.
And from Sylvari players, it seem Mordy is continuously calling out to those Sylvari that did not get corrupted by the call. Do you really think that call does not use energy? Again, unlimited ammo situation again. And again, if that was the case, Mordy could just use it’s full power and continuously call out to all those Sylvari and continuously wear them down without any issues.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Redenaz.8631:

There’s a chance that Modremoth and Zhaitan will appear “alive” in some form or other “at the end,” if the Elder Dragons are part of some grand conspiracy tied up with the fabric of the world, but for narrative purposes, I think they’re dead. I’m okay with that, and ready to move on to fighting something other than Modrem for a while.

This is probably what will happen. If you notice, when Mordy dies, he screams “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?” From the way it sounded, it wasn’t a scream that he can’t believe you killed him, but rather a scream of what will happen BECAUSE you killed him. Recalling a cutscene back in the Season 2 Living Story, we saw the Eternal Alchemy and all the dragons seemed to be linked to it, with Mordy even looking at us through it. We’re messing with the natural order here in some way, and it probably won’t end well for Tyria.

If anet pulls a shadow of the colossus on us I will be most impressed.

Still, I felt like the story was incredibly rushed. When it ended, I was left wondering if there would be some kind of M. Night Shyamalan style twist that would keep the story going. But all we got was a cutscene with a cliffhanger ending.

you’re putting WAY too much thought into this. I’m willing to bet that anet just rushed the story because of some stupid reason, and added too many fragmented plot points and lore inconsistencies.

What about how every dragon has a weakness? we starved zhaitan to the ground, destroyed his army production site, and cooked him alive by firing LAVA at him after CUTTING HIS TAIL OFF.

And then there’s kralky: snaff forcibly grounded him via mind control, which let plenty of people wail on him. At least until logan happened.

Now, i’m no expert. But being the victim of such a severe guerrilla-tactic attack and then was shot at by lava, or being attacked by a group of people while being rendered completely immobile isn’t exactly a specific weakness unique to a single dragon.