Guild Wars 2

“When we wrote the original combat blog post, a lot of people assumed we didn’t want the trinity. It wasn’t an anti-trinity, it was more of a case of “this is how we want to do this type of combat and we want these roles and we want them to be flexible.” not “Hey, we don’t want people supporting!” and so, we want to design creatures that make you want to use Immobilize or design creatures that make you want to use Portal if we can. We have so many tools in our combat system that we want players to think about when they use them.” – Jon Peters

https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/building-a-better-balance-the-future-of-pve-as-far-as-we-know/

Do you guys want a trinity? Do you want the LFG be full of people say “GLF Support!” Since I’m not seeing a discussion, I might as well make it.

no the ideal here in GW2 is great IMO

every toon can do any role if they want at any time and its up to the indivdual player to survive instead of a dedicated healer or a tank keeping the aggro off of them

Don’t care. As long as it has a healthbar and we can all heal ourselves I’ll be “GLF DPS”.

That statement is bull!!!

Anybody that was around during the Defiance addition would tell you this as well. Defiance was added to basically make control pretty much useless in PvE!!!

That quote in the OP is so much bull.

I been waiting two years to get the trinity popping and get away from this DPZzzzz combat system and actually have group roles at reward more than just damage.

I actually like playing support and control more than DPZzzzz

Damage is the most boring role, in my opinion. But vanilla GW2 basically made all other roles useless. Stack+DPZzzzzz is the meta and how things are done, for a reason….

I don’t like developers that bull around. Come honest, Anet. I can respect honesty.

You don’t see a discussion because it’s not needed. They DESIGNED the game to not have a “trinity”. If you want “trinity” play, there are plenty of games to oblige you.

The quote isn’t bull. It’s outdated. They had to do something to end the ability of a Zerg to perma-stun lock a World Boss…..THAT’s VERY boring! The change to Stability in the works should prove they WANT control to be a part of each players kitten nal.

runeblade.7514:

“When we wrote the original combat blog post, a lot of people assumed we didn’t want the trinity. It wasn’t an anti-trinity, it was more of a case of “this is how we want to do this type of combat and we want these roles and we want them to be flexible.” not “Hey, we don’t want people supporting!” and so, we want to design creatures that make you want to use Immobilize or design creatures that make you want to use Portal if we can. We have so many tools in our combat system that we want players to think about when they use them.” – Jon Peters

https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/building-a-better-balance-the-future-of-pve-as-far-as-we-know/

Do you guys want a trinity? Do you want the LFG be full of people say “GLF Support!” Since I’m not seeing a discussion, I might as well make it.

When I played WoW, I was a healer and loved it. That game revolved around a trinity. You literally could not do dungeons and raids your level without exact types of classes. However, implementing a trinity in GW2 would be kitten greater than any other for the combat system. Aside from that, there are no skills that target allies, so they would have to completely revamp every class to make up for this.

Some people seem to have selective reading.

the trinity is: might, fury, vulnerability and professions that are easily able to do at least one on a regular basis.

If you did a dungeon or other content with perma fury and might you will see a difference and that difference is just to big.

I would limit fury to 5s. Might and vulnerabilty to 5 stacks. With that the game would be a bit more fair.

runeblade.7514:

“When we wrote the original combat blog post, a lot of people assumed we didn’t want the trinity. It wasn’t an anti-trinity, it was more of a case of “this is how we want to do this type of combat and we want these roles and we want them to be flexible.” not “Hey, we don’t want people supporting!” and so, we want to design creatures that make you want to use Immobilize or design creatures that make you want to use Portal if we can. We have so many tools in our combat system that we want players to think about when they use them.” – Jon Peters

https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/building-a-better-balance-the-future-of-pve-as-far-as-we-know/

Do you guys want a trinity? Do you want the LFG be full of people say “GLF Support!” Since I’m not seeing a discussion, I might as well make it.

yes i want the trinity

i’m bored to care only about dps, and some reflect skills… i’ve played others mmo, and i miss to help ppl with their life, i miss to tank boss or mobs in some way when dps need to be more safer for do this jobs, i miss the range attack…

i miss what it feels to do a instanced content, an kittene, doing your best for keep the party alive, i miss the endscore table when you will see the healers, the dps score… and i’m bored to see (and lf) meta zerk blablabla…

in other games i can do dps, i can do the healer and i can tank, in this game i can only do dps with some little utility for helping party, when the biggest focus is on dps, and the community, is on speedrun, skip everything…

i had more fun with other games, so i really hope to see some content who need trinity…

and dont tell me “go to play this game” etc etc, because i like gw2 and i wanna play it, i’d like to see this game allowing you to play what you want, and dont start with the story about u can do all contents in nomad etc etc, because i dont wanna do a content in 40 min if i can do that in 10, i’d just like to have OPTIONS, to play in a OPTIMAL way with the current system or with the trinity system, so everyone will be happy… play what u want w/o waste your time doing AC in full nomad in 50 hours, when u can do that in 40min with zerk….

multi purpose is the way imho

Knighthonor.4061:

That quote in the OP is so much bull.

I been waiting two years to get the trinity popping and get away from this DPZzzzz combat system and actually have group roles at reward more than just damage.

I actually like playing support and control more than DPZzzzz

Have to agree. This revising history thing just isn’t on.

Quite apart from they actually said, there’s what they actually did. GW2 definitely doesn’t favour players performing in different roles. It doesn’t even favour players utilitising different kinds of DPS. It’s direct damage or bust.

I’m very glad that they’re rethinking this. It’s one of the few major criticisms I’d make of the game.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

Guild Wars 2 has always had a soft trinity. Joining pug wannabe speedclear parties is not a good way to judge the effectiveness of it, because those parties are most of the time actually not efficient, as well as using outdated tactics.

Lian, you’re not going to get you cake and eat it too. It’s gonna be either/or. You can literally play the game now and a soft tank or soft healer. You should find those of like minds and play the content with them. You’ll have a good time, I’m pretty sure about that. Just stay away from the LFG ZERKER posts and everyone will have a good time… But of course, you can play how you want and that’s the trade off. DPS = Less Time. Don’t like it? Tough cookies.

If they leave their current model that Lazaar has pointed out and go to a traditional trinity game I’ll be taking my money and self to other games…

runeblade.7514:

Do you guys want a trinity?

I’m sure two thirds of those answering this topic have read “trinity” as having a healer and a WoW-like tank. Not the GW2-based trinity the article was talking about.

Brother Grimm.5176:

The quote isn’t bull. It’s outdated.

It’s from an interview released yesterday.

thefantasticg.3984:

Lian, you’re not going to get you cake and eat it too. It’s gonna be either/or. You can literally play the game now and a soft tank or soft healer. You should find those of like minds and play the content with them. You’ll have a good time, I’m pretty sure about that. Just stay away from the LFG ZERKER posts and everyone will have a good time… But of course, you can play how you want and that’s the trade off. DPS = Less Time. Don’t like it? Tough cookies.

If they leave their current model that Lazaar has pointed out and go to a traditional trinity game I’ll be taking my money and self to other games…

my point is not to destroy actual model, i understand you and other are in love with it, i’m proposing to do other content with the trinity model, so everyone can play content he want… isnt funny play as a trinity party with the current model, spending more time for finish it
i wanna have a different cakes to eat, for dps lover and for trinity lover, so everyone will be happy

Lazaar.9123:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

Guild Wars 2 has always had a soft trinity. Joining pug wannabe speedclear parties is not a good way to judge the effectiveness of it, because those parties are most of the time actually not efficient, as well as using outdated tactics.

Congratulations. That has to be the most outrageous thing I’ve read in these forums.

Caeledh.5437:

Lazaar.9123:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

Guild Wars 2 has always had a soft trinity. Joining pug wannabe speedclear parties is not a good way to judge the effectiveness of it, because those parties are most of the time actually not efficient, as well as using outdated tactics.

Congratulations. That has to be the most outrageous thing I’ve read in these forums.

What, because it’s true? Proper dungeon parties build for team synergy, that is the thing ArenaNet wants players to do. Everyone plays more than one role.

I can’t wait to see “GLF X role (DPS/Healer/Tank/CC/Suport) X class X mastery point link X gear stat or kick” and “GLFM X class (no X build or kick)”.
This is not sarcasm, wanna see every LFG user have a toxic behaviour regarding builds and trinity roles.

When people say Trinity they often mean a WoWesque deal. Where you’re group must comply with certain build or it is simply unable to do the content.

That would very much go against the design behind GW2, and despite what some people nearly begging for a trinity think, will destroy build diversity.

Fortunately we don’t have to worry about it. GW2 has a “trinity”. Dps, Support, Control. However no one is locked into one role. You can, and are expected, to combine a bit of all of these roles. But DPS is the primairy role, everyone is suppose to chip in on the damage front.
Anything more WoW like where specific builds are enforced will, simply put, not even work in GW2. With enforced I mean enforced by the game, not random players in LFG.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

I can’t wait to see “GLF X role (DPS/Healer/Tank/CC/Suport) X class X mastery point link X gear stat or kick” and “GLFM X class (no X build or kick)”.
This is not sarcasm, wanna see every LFG user have a toxic behaviour regarding builds and trinity roles.

and what do u care? u already have your speedrun party…. leave it and try to join the ACTUAL lfg, “meta zerk build” “10k+ AP” “no necro” “ele war guard only” etc etc, then you will join it and then wipe because they dont know how to play it….
this is not sarcam, open the lfg try to pug instead play with your friends…. and after 3 years of this, tell me what is toxic regarding your full dps zerk corner meta roles

Arenanet gave it a good try and I gave a chance to their approach, but at this point I think it’s clear that the PvE gameplay of other MMOs that use some form of trinity is better. They removed the “LFtank/healer” spamming but they did it at the expense of their players who prefer to play defense/support. It was not a good move.

Instead of banning roles they should allow you to play what you want (defense, offense, support, whatever suit you.) and do their best to make all playstyles reasonably useful and desirable.

No. On the contrary. I’d rather have people get away from it as much as possible.

In fact, the current stat system is too much like the ones in trinity games. Being able to go all out in defense or offense.

Instead being able to go all out offensive, it’ll be better if there was 3 forms of damage, 3 forms of defense, and you could only get enough stat points to get one maxed and one half maxed.

For example:

• A, B, C types of damage.
• 1, 2, 3 types of defense.

Each type of damage would be great against one other type of defense, average against a second, very bad against a third. For example, like this:

• 1> A=2 >3
• 2> B=3 >1
• 3> C=1 >2

In this example, if you had A maxed and and B half maxed for damage, and 2 maxed and 3 half maxed for defense, you’ll have trouble against someone who had 1 maxed and 2 half maxed for defense and B maxed and A half maxed for offense. You would want to rotate with a friend better matched against that.

Currently, Power, precision and thoughness work as basically the same thing: direct damage vs direct damage reduction. So to have what we say we’ll have to put ferocity and precision into one that give it a counter that works great against precision but badly against power, and change vitality to work great against condition damage but badly against other, instead being something that works against everything a little.

Of course, this will never happen because it’ll be waaay too much of a change. But I would have preferred that over the trinity role stat system we have now.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on rewarded healing/control in WvW/PvE open world events. I couldn’t care less about dungeons/fotm content though, let the zerks have that.

Lian Olsam.9541:

and dont start with the story about u can do all contents in nomad etc etc, because i dont wanna do a content in 40 min if i can do that in 10, i’d just like to have OPTIONS, to play in a OPTIMAL way with the current system or with the trinity system, so everyone will be happy… play what u want w/o waste your time doing AC in full nomad in 50 hours, when u can do that in 40min with zerk….

multi purpose is the way imho

Im sorry to break it for you but if you want to play in the most optimal way there will never be any options, there always will only be ONE optimal way, no matter what the devs want

GummiBear.2756:

Lian Olsam.9541:

and dont start with the story about u can do all contents in nomad etc etc, because i dont wanna do a content in 40 min if i can do that in 10, i’d just like to have OPTIONS, to play in a OPTIMAL way with the current system or with the trinity system, so everyone will be happy… play what u want w/o waste your time doing AC in full nomad in 50 hours, when u can do that in 40min with zerk….

multi purpose is the way imho

Im sorry to break it for you but if you want to play in the most optimal way there will never be any options, there always will only be ONE optimal way, no matter what the devs want

Hate to break it to both of you the devs said play how you want, not that all those players would finish at the same time.

GummiBear.2756:

Lian Olsam.9541:

and dont start with the story about u can do all contents in nomad etc etc, because i dont wanna do a content in 40 min if i can do that in 10, i’d just like to have OPTIONS, to play in a OPTIMAL way with the current system or with the trinity system, so everyone will be happy… play what u want w/o waste your time doing AC in full nomad in 50 hours, when u can do that in 40min with zerk….

multi purpose is the way imho

Im sorry to break it for you but if you want to play in the most optimal way there will never be any options, there always will only be ONE optimal way, no matter what the devs want

that’s why i suggest to have different content!!
i dont say tho change content we already have, its too expensive,i suggesting to to new istanced content (raids, new dungeon, fotm) with the other way, so player can keep play this model or if they want cant join the new model with the new content

more options is the way, play what u want with optimal solutions, different content, different strategy, not ever the same “stack and max dps” then skip mobs etc etc…

i think expansion is the good moment for adding big things w/o revolutioning all content we have, new area, new content, just change the rule inside this new things, make it different, and give the opportunity to ppl to play what they r looking for since release…. if someone dont like some new content is FREE to dont play, for example i hate the farming maps like drytop and silverwaste, i dont wanna farm, i wanna challenging istanced content, so i avoid this content for play others

For me, I don’t want the trinity. Zerker is bad enough for me but it’s good cause you just need to do dmg, less restriction to what utilities to bring and what weapon to use. To me it’s just like equip zerk, get in, get out of dungeon and do spvp or wvw .

Trinity is just gonna bring that to the next level.

I think we’re looking at this the wrong way. Pretty much the idea is
Either Trinity or Not.
I think the goal of GW2 combat is being open to choice. So they is why you don’t need a tank, or a healer so people are open to play what class they want or what style they want. But the issue is there is only one type of build at high levels. DPS. Whatever increases you and your groups DPS is the most useful one. And the question is: “Why is that?” And the answer is because all fights are the same. Taking a bosses HP from full→0 and while that is the norm i think the key is changing that to changing the way the meta is played.

You can’t just make the content harder to force people away from zerkers because the way the game is played it’ll just make it to where people of only a certain skill can play, and it’ll narrow down the amount of classes that are viable and force people to learn exploits in the system to get though (underwater mossman i’m looking at you!)

So the way i think they should do it is making new types of fights.

Introducing Reinforced Tusk!!!
-High HP
-Has a buff “Tough Hide” Has 10 stacks, keeping the Tusk below 50% HP will slowly remove stacks of tough hide and above 50% will cause him to slowly generate stacks back to 10. Though the lower his HP the quicker his stacks drop.
-But killing reinforced Tusk before his stacks are gone causes him to explode for wide AoE dmg and to rest and come back to life with full HP and 10 stacks again
(The Key to this fight is balance. Getting this mob below 50% won’t be a problem but restraining yourself from attacking him to death and balancing How much damage to deal next to keeping yourself up will be Key)

*NEXT Sludge Symbiotic!!!!"
-Pluses a low amount of poison damage.
-At every 10% of HP Loss it goes invlun for a few seconds and releases 4 victims that each pulse crippling conditions.
(Since this boss (or mob) Goes invlun it keeps it from just being spiked down. And the low poison damage as well makes this fight much more about survival than dps, meaning that specing into some condi removal and healing OR bringing along someone who can deal with that is much more useful than just running all DPS)

http://youtu.be/xUjrrc5aj2k?t=30m11s

Interesting tidbit about taunt, it should ease peoples minds about it. Also a lot of interesting information before that time about development of challenging content.

Lian Olsam.9541:

and what do u care? u already have your speedrun party…. leave it and try to join the ACTUAL lfg, “meta zerk build” “10k+ AP” “no necro” “ele war guard only” etc etc, then you will join it and then wipe because they dont know how to play it….
this is not sarcam, open the lfg try to pug instead play with your friends…. and after 3 years of this, tell me what is toxic regarding your full dps zerk corner meta roles

And? Those builds are not obligatory, you don’t have to join those parties. Trinity forces people into specifics builds, right now you can play whatever and however you want.

Lian Olsam.9541:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

I can’t wait to see “GLF X role (DPS/Healer/Tank/CC/Suport) X class X mastery point link X gear stat or kick” and “GLFM X class (no X build or kick)”.
This is not sarcasm, wanna see every LFG user have a toxic behaviour regarding builds and trinity roles.

and what do u care? u already have your speedrun party…. leave it and try to join the ACTUAL lfg, “meta zerk build” “10k+ AP” “no necro” “ele war guard only” etc etc, then you will join it and then wipe because they dont know how to play it….
this is not sarcam, open the lfg try to pug instead play with your friends…. and after 3 years of this, tell me what is toxic regarding your full dps zerk corner meta roles

That’s why I’m happy, I have a speedrun party and will enjoy evey tear of those LFG users that wipe on every encounter.
As someone said, if Trinity will happen OR any “requiered build to complete X”, it will be much worse than just “equip zerk and finish dungeon”.

Inb4 “Sorry we need only one revenant kick this one”.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Lian Olsam.9541:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

I can’t wait to see “GLF X role (DPS/Healer/Tank/CC/Suport) X class X mastery point link X gear stat or kick” and “GLFM X class (no X build or kick)”.
This is not sarcasm, wanna see every LFG user have a toxic behaviour regarding builds and trinity roles.

and what do u care? u already have your speedrun party…. leave it and try to join the ACTUAL lfg, “meta zerk build” “10k+ AP” “no necro” “ele war guard only” etc etc, then you will join it and then wipe because they dont know how to play it….
this is not sarcam, open the lfg try to pug instead play with your friends…. and after 3 years of this, tell me what is toxic regarding your full dps zerk corner meta roles

That’s why I’m happy, I have a speedrun party and will enjoy evey tear of those LFG users that wipe on every encounter.
As someone said, if Trinity will happen OR any “requiered build to complete X”, it will be much worse than just “equip zerk and finish dungeon”.

Inb4 “Sorry we need only one revenant kick this one”.

i dont think will be any difference in LFG tool, i’m using it since they release it, you dont (i’m happy you have your party), how can u talk about something u dont use?

I do use it eventually, but I make sure I pick builds and gear I desire for my parties. That won’t change if trinity is introduced (we both know that). I’m underlining the possible worse state of pickup groups and LFG parties after more defined roles are made requiered.

• Example of me using LFG today : Need War, Ele, Thief link berzerker gear. I filter by class, then by gear.

• Supposed me using LFG if a soft/hard/anything trinity is introduced : Need X build X class X gear, Y build Y class Y gear, Z build Z class Z gear. I filter by Class, Utility, Traits and Gear. Having the right gear is not enough now and class Z is not wanted if it uses gear X.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

I do use it eventually, but I make sure I pick builds and gear I desire for my parties. That won’t change if trinity is introduced (we both know that). I’m underlining the possible worse state of pickup groups and LFG parties after more defined roles are made requiered.

• Example of me using LFG today : Need War, Ele, Thief link berzerker gear. I filter by class, then by gear.

• Supposed me using LFG if a soft/hard/anything trinity is introduced : Need X build X class X gear, Y build Y class Y gear, Z build Z class Z gear. I filter by Class, Utility, Traits and Gear. Having the right gear is not enough now and class Z is not wanted if it uses gear X.

• Example of me using LFG today : Need War, Ele, Thief link berzerker gear. I filter by class, then by gear

i do tha same lfg because of meta, but is unfair with necros or ppl wanna play differently, its “racist” kick or avoid ppl wanna play differently, and u will exclude them from the entire instanced pve game
the example from the “future” lfg if trinity or more supportive build will be came up is
lf one healer one CC one condi one dps…. i dont care if they r necro, engi, war or ele, i just need a role, so EVERYONE can play it, and you dont exclude necros or other not optimal classes, because every classes have some optimal build, and if u allow them to be optimal for content u can enjoy it, maybe a mesmer will be not the tank ofc, but he can play, necro will never be the dps, but will be a really awesome condi-dps

onestly i’m start to think this “new” way will be better than the actual… i’m “lucky” because my main was ele and war (now i play all classes) but i know ppl lefted some classes because they didnt have the possibility to do dungeon, w/o being kicked… i’ve tryed myself joing a “normal” lfg with no requisite, with my necro and i’ve be kicked just because of him in 3 seconds… they even asked me if i can switch character, i have all, so i could..

now gw2 is 10€, try to buy it and lvl a necro (for example), and try to join pug w/o play some meta classes and w/o be known by miku and tell me if u have fun…

Knowing people they will just kick tank mesmers and pick a tank guardian instead if it is more tanky/better. If the necro can’t be the DPS as you said, people will pick an elementalist instead, what if necro wants to play DPS? It will just pidgeonhole people into set Class/Build combos instead of an unique Gear set. (And anyways, necro is a whole problem on its own :‘( )
Kind people like you are already accepting everyone in their parties but I am speaking of everyone else who doesn’t.

ofc you should play your class with theyr optimal build (like now) but u have more options, some classes have less option than other like the poor necro but elementalist, guard and war for example can play healer, dps, tank and cc
if u wanna play pure dps, and u have the necro maybe you should switch classes (really easy in gw2 for no grind or multiple equip tier), but if u wanna play necro you can choose to play condi or tanky with so u can play your class!! now u cant
unfortunately i’m not accepting everyone like you, when i write the LFG i will lf berserker meta, because like you i dont wanna lose my time, and wipe, but i just hope in a better “meta” allowing player to play all classes with different purpose… i’m tired to do everytime the same stuff, i enjoy in other games to play same content differently, once as dps, once as healer etc etc, it will change alot the gameplay

You want people to have difrent builds but conkitten Necro never being able to DPS.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

You want people to have difrent builds but conkitten Necro never being able to DPS.

its just a different topic, i’d like to see the necro able to do dps, he just need another weapon with a burst an a autoattack with cleave, but this is not about trinity topic

I don’t know if its the lack of trinity but the fights in GW2 just aren’t that fun or interesting.

Perhaps, Holan, you’re playing the wrong class then? I find fights much more interesting and fun using sword ranger or sword/dagger or d/d thief than I do other classes+weapons.

I want trinity lite. In which it allows you to put together a team of trinity in order to help play that way if you choose to instead of this we should all be burst glass cannons or worse burst only guardians and warriors and now the revenant (because you know what’s coming next right? We’ll see dungeon runs of only guards warriors and revenants and no other class out there because those three have the higher armor and the higher health pools and they’ll all remain zerker if they do nothing!)

If you want to play control/suport/tank come and play wvw. We need you!

That’s funny I always thought trinity games were really boring. I like bringing the deeps then picking fools up off the floor when they missed a dodge and dropping a big time block and counter just as everyone is downed and they get rallies as you bust down the boss. Purely a personal preference but my preference is Guild Wars 2 Combat.

Lazaar.9123:

What, because it’s true? Proper dungeon parties build for team synergy, that is the thing ArenaNet wants players to do. Everyone plays more than one role.

Nothing but lies.

Caeledh.5437:

Lazaar.9123:

What, because it’s true? Proper dungeon parties build for team synergy, that is the thing ArenaNet wants players to do. Everyone plays more than one role.

Nothing but lies.

You say lies but provide no proof to the contrary…

thefantasticg.3984:

You say lies but provide no proof to the contrary…

The proof is in the game. It shouldn’t need to be spelled out. These claims are positively ludicrous.

Right now at this very moment there are multiple threads on the first page of this forum complaining about the lack of diversity in GW2’s pve. Zerk this, zerk that. What about poor old condition damage? Make non-DPS roles viable. Etc. etc.

The vast majority of dungeon runs are zerk runs. The vast majority of players wear zerk gear. The most expensive crafting mats are zerk ones. The game design specifically favours DPS and specifically zerk by the way it deals with condition stacking. GW2 explicitly set out to do away with the trinity – as the OP points out – and they succeeded.

These are facts.

Facts… I do not think that word means what you think it means.

So, you have the statical data from Anet that states for FACT that the “vast majority” of players wear zerk gear? No? Then I guess you don’t know this for a fact you are just guessing.

So you have the statistical data from Anet that states for FACT that that the “vast majority” of dungeon runs are done by players using zerker gear/builds? No? Then I guess you don’t this for a fact you are just guessing.

What is fact is that there are multiple threads on the first page of this forum complaining about there being one set of optimal stats for PVE. All gear/builds are viable. There is simply no content that anyone is locked out of because of gear/builds.

thefantasticg.3984:

So, you have the statical data from Anet that states for FACT that the “vast majority” of players wear zerk gear? No? Then I guess you don’t know this for a fact you are just guessing.

I notice you didn’t question the pricing of zerk crafting mats. Because that is an easily verifiable fact for anyone.

Do you understand the incredibly basic notion of supply and demand? Things people want more cost more? Zerk crafting mats are more expensive than others because more people wear that gear.

Oh dear.

thefantasticg.3984:

So you have the statistical data from Anet that states for FACT that that the “vast majority” of dungeon runs are done by players using zerker gear/builds? No? Then I guess you don’t this for a fact you are just guessing.

No I’m not just guessing. I play the game. I run dungeons. At any given time in the lfg tool the vast majority of dungeon runs are listed as zerk runs. Even the ones not listed as such usually are too – which is easy enough to tell by the way mobs melt under a zerker onslaught.

Anyone else who runs dungeons would know the same. And I’m positive ArenaNet has those statistics. Not that they’re likely to share them.

thefantasticg.3984:

What is fact is that there are multiple threads on the first page of this forum complaining about there being one set of optimal stats for PVE. All gear/builds are viable. There is simply no content that anyone is locked out of because of gear/builds.

Ooops – you left out roles! Which GW2 doesn’t really support and which is the focus of this thread. And has been of many others. Maybe you forgot them because GW2 doesn’t really have them.

General PvE is easy enough that you can get away with anything. But some gear and builds have significant disadvantages in any kind of group content. Just because something is minimally functional doesn’t mean it isn’t broken.

I didn’t address the crafting materials because like your other claims based on your own preception, and not actual data, that proves nothing. All it means is that the crafting materials for crafting zerk items is higher. That’s it. Correlation does not mean causation. Oh dear… Have you looked to see whatelse is required by those materials to craft? Perhaps that’s what driving up the cost? Of course you haven’t.

I hate to break it to you, kiddo, but without hard statistical data from Anet to back you up, you can be positive in claiming all you want from your experience in game that the vast majority runs zerker, but it’s just a claim and not, indeed, fact.

And, I’ll repeat myself for you since I’m such a nice guy: ALL GEARS/BUILDS IS VIABLE. THERE IS NO CONTENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN TYPE OF GEAR/BUILD FOR.

EDIT: Oh, and just incase you didn’t know, you don’t have to run zerker. You don’t have to play with people that run zerker. You don’t even have to play this game. And just because you think there are significant disadvantages doesn’t mean there actually are…

thefantasticg.3984:

I didn’t address the crafting materials because like your other claims based on your own preception, and not actual data, that proves nothing.

The cost of crafting materials isn’t a “perception”. There is hard data. Open the exchange. Look in the wiki. Visit one of the websites which tracks material costs.

thefantasticg.3984:

All it means is that the crafting materials for crafting zerk items is higher.

So you admit it’s not a perception? It is a fact? That’s something at least.

thefantasticg.3984:

Correlation does not mean causation.

Honestly not trying to be mean here but you’ve badly misused this form of argument. Correlation – which is a specific statistical test – isn’t even a part of this discussion so couldn’t have been used to misinterpret causation.

I’ll give you an example.

Someone collects data on ice cream sales at the beach. They do some statistical tests and find a positive correlation with drownings, i.e. the more ice creams sold on any given day the more likely it is someone drowns.

The error of inferring causation from correlation would be to conclude that ice creams cause drowning. The unmeasured factor of course would be temperature. The hotter it is the more people you would have visiting the beach. That would contribute to both higher ice cream sales and more drownings.

thefantasticg.3984:

Have you looked to see whatelse is required by those materials to craft? Perhaps that’s what driving up the cost? Of course you haven’t.

Have you? Since you’re trying to argue against it have you looked and can provide even a single alternate cause of the higher cost? You haven’t and you can’t.

The obviously reasonable conclusion – especially when taken in consideration with other facts like the immense popularity of zerker dungeon runs, the lower viability of condition damage and GW2’s lack of support for roles in combat – is these materials are more expensive because more people wear zerker gear.

Caeledh.5437:

thefantasticg.3984:

Have you looked to see whatelse is required by those materials to craft? Perhaps that’s what driving up the cost? Of course you haven’t.

Have you? Since you’re trying to argue against it have you looked and can provide even a single alternate cause of the higher cost? You haven’t and you can’t..

I don’t have to. The burden of proof is on you. It’s on you to bring the proof since you stated these things as facts… which you still haven’t done that the “vast majority” of dungeon runs are done by people running full zerker gear/builds and or that the “vast majority” of players in PVE are, in fact, running zerker gear/builds. If it was I that stated these things as facts it would be on me to provide undeniable proof that this was indeed a fact and not just a claim I was making to try to defend my point.

You, sir, still lack solid evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the “vast majority” of PVE players run zerker gear/builds and you lack solid evidence that “vast majority” of dungeon runs are done by zerker gear/builds.

What you, sir, are doing are making claims (and somehow magically turn them into facts) with NO DATA whatsoever to back up your silly claims.

I eargerly await your evidence that does turn your claims into facts.

By the way, what number consitutes “vast majority” of players? 1,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? Does this “vast majority” include the Chinese market? Also, what number qualifies as the “vast majority” of dungeon runs? Do you know how many total dungeon runs have been done since release so that you have a number to go off of to claim “vast majority”?