Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.

The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.

It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.

The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.

Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.

Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.

I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.

Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.

People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.

If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.

Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.

It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).

And that’s without using LFG.

I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.

It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.

Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Yeah, I see that too…when I’m on a map that isn’t currently working toward the meta. It happens because other players left a non-meta map for a meta map. Big surprise, right?

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.

The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.

It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.

The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.

Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.

Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.

I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.

Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.

People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.

If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.

Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.

It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).

And that’s without using LFG.

I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.

It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.

Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Yeah, I see that too…when I’m on a map that isn’t currently working toward the meta. It happens because other players left a non-meta map for a meta map. Big surprise, right?

Not a surprise to me. Maybe to Vayne, who never apparently sees an empty map unless a meta just ended.

Apolo.5942:

-Multiplayer based content for character development. AKA Hero points.
-Vertical Maps.
-Power Creeped Elite Classes.

I love the new hero points. I soloed them all on mesmer and didn’t realize there actually meant for groups until I got to that Mushroom King at TD.

I love the vertical maps. I especially love Tangled Depths.

I agree with you about the power creep.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.

The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.

It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.

The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.

Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.

Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.

I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.

Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.

People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.

If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.

Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.

It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).

And that’s without using LFG.

I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.

It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.

Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Yeah, I see that too…when I’m on a map that isn’t currently working toward the meta. It happens because other players left a non-meta map for a meta map. Big surprise, right?

Not a surprise to me. Maybe to Vayne, who never apparently sees an empty map unless a meta just ended.

I agree with you totally, myself and my entire Guild often see map closings, low population on HoT maps and have to change maps in the Guild Hall. What the heck is this all about?

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.

The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.

It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.

The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.

Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.

Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.

I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.

Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.

People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.

If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.

Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.

It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).

And that’s without using LFG.

I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.

It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.

Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Yeah, I see that too…when I’m on a map that isn’t currently working toward the meta. It happens because other players left a non-meta map for a meta map. Big surprise, right?

Not a surprise to me. Maybe to Vayne, who never apparently sees an empty map unless a meta just ended.

I agree with you totally, myself and my entire Guild often see map closings, low population on HoT maps and have to change maps in the Guild Hall. What the heck is this all about?

Say the game starts with a single map copy. New mega server shards are created when the first one gets partially full. This can happen multiple times, especially if people flock to the area for a meta event. So, you have a bunch of partially-filled shards. However, players want to succeed, so they taxi (use Join In) to one or more shards. This means you’ll see one or more shards close to the shard population cap. Those people had to be in a copy of that zone to “Join In.” That means they are leaving the other partially filled shards. Also, people who came for the meta but can’t get into a full map go elsewhere or log off. So, we see shards that seem empty, often to the point that the “close shard” routine starts up.

Apolo.5942:

-Multiplayer based content for character development. AKA Hero points.
-Vertical Maps.
-Power Creeped Elite Classes.

I agree that I would prefer many things from in HoT not be included in future content. Vertical maps and character progression that ever requires more than 1 character to gain are two of the big issues.

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You can. I was able to get all my elite specs without overly relying on others. And be honest, was core tyria really a multiplayer game? And maybe if you relying on others is so infuriating for you, an mmo might not be the best kind of game to play. Gw1 and various other RPGs like skyrim let you develop your character without ever needing to see another player. Demanding that everything should be soloable in an mmo is just silly

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.

The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.

It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.

The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.

Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.

Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.

I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.

Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.

People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.

If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.

Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.

It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).

And that’s without using LFG.

I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.

It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.

Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Yeah, I see that too…when I’m on a map that isn’t currently working toward the meta. It happens because other players left a non-meta map for a meta map. Big surprise, right?

Not a surprise to me. Maybe to Vayne, who never apparently sees an empty map unless a meta just ended.

Except that if you’re not working toward the meta, it doesn’t matter if a map closes. You’re not actually listening to what I"m saying.

On the rare occassions I’m after a meta in VB, AB and TD (DS is obviously different), it doesn’t matter if a map closes, because it doesnt’ affect what I"m doing. I have maps close in Timberline falls and Sparkfly fen while I’m out doing events, and so what? I go to the new map with a buff. What’s the big deal.

The same is true in HoT maps. That is, I play HoT maps pretty much exactly how I play core maps. The idea that you have to play them diffferently somehow is mostly in people’s heads.

There ARE differences, but maps closing is not one of them, unless you’re only there for the meta. And if you’re only there for the meta, you should be on an active map.

Do you know how many times in the past year maps have closed on my during a meta? Probably twice and both were a long time ago.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You can. I was able to get all my elite specs without overly relying on others. And be honest, was core tyria really a multiplayer game? And maybe if you relying on others is so infuriating for you, an mmo might not be the best kind of game to play. Gw1 and various other RPGs like skyrim let you develop your character without ever needing to see another player. Demanding that everything should be soloable in an mmo is just silly

You can get all your elite specs without relying on others. And in core Tyria, there are some hero points that are dastardly hard to get without relying on others. Unless you have a lot of stealth,. I’m not sure how anyone would get the hero point in the Temple of Balthazar in Straits. I tried it yesterday and solo, and even with a guildies help we couldn’t get it. Too many spawns. You have to take back the temple of Balthazar, which I know for a fact I can’t solo.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You can. I was able to get all my elite specs without overly relying on others. And be honest, was core tyria really a multiplayer game? And maybe if you relying on others is so infuriating for you, an mmo might not be the best kind of game to play. Gw1 and various other RPGs like skyrim let you develop your character without ever needing to see another player. Demanding that everything should be soloable in an mmo is just silly

If you look at the OP, we’re talking specifically about Hero Points in HoT maps. If you’re saying that you can solo every single HP in HoT, that’s wonderful for you but that is not the experience of a large number (my guess is “most”) players.

And I’m not sure why me wanting to control my character stat progress = me being infuriated, but please don’t try to pin extreme emotion on a factual statement of mine. If I have an emotion to express, I’ll say so. And I have never demanded that everything should be soloable either, so please also don’t put words in my mouth.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

You complained about character progression. After you have maxed your elite spec there is no more character progression to be gained from HP. Either this is about character progression or it isn’t. And besides, there are still more than 25 HP that are soloable in HoT. There are 36 HP in HoT maps, and there aren’t 11 of them that require more than 1 person to complete.

Besides, even if you can’t solo 25 HP in HoT, you can skip all of it with proofs of heroics in WvW.

Its fine if you want everything to be soloable, but don’t act like this is a matter of character progression, because its entirely possible to fully progress your character while playing solo.

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked. Beyond that there should be plenty of hero challenges that spawn champions. Why? Because that’s what I like. See? We can both have our way without demanding that the other person doesn’t get what they want. That was the magic of HoT for those who don’t like to exaggerate and that’s what I hope to see in the next expansion as well (perhaps with a few more solo challenges thrown in so we don’t have to fight about this forever).

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Its an alternative. You have the choice of making your espec fast by doing hot hero points. You can also do everything solo, which takes a little longer. Both cases are viable scenarios. You want the multiplayer scenario to disapear so everyone has to do the soloplayer scenario?

I don’t think every HP needs to be soloable. I think some HPs can be made for groups. This provided variety which every game needs. Some people can enjoy the harder stuff and some people can enjoy the easier stuff.

The real issue in my opinion is the elite spec. As long as everyone can get them on solo HPs and everyone should be able to do that), then I don’t see a problem. The other hero points lock you out of elite specialization weapon collections (cause you need zone complete) or HoT Legendaries.

I’m not sure why someone feels they need to solo everything for a HoT legendary, or a elite weapon specialization. There are other things a solo player can do (including joining a hero point run and just following along if that’s what they want).

AliamRationem.5172:

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked.

Let’s not forget that HC’s are also exploration content. Imo, exploration should be 100% soloable. It was in core, with a couple of points in Orr (pre-nerf Noose Road and Balthazar) presenting a serious challenge, but still doable.

In HoT, I can solo Golem, but not vampire. I can solo Arrowhead and Mushroom, but only on pet/clone classes. I can’t even find some of the HC’s before I get frustrated and go do something fun.

Ultimately, this turns into a debate over what should be group content and what shouldn’t. ANet has pushed group content down our throats. It seems like everything meaningful requires groups. This includes completed exploration (in HoT), collections, a lot of rewards. MMO’s are indeed social games, but they flourish when they offer robust options for the soloist. GW2 HoT is lacking in the latter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked.

Let’s not forget that HC’s are also exploration content. Imo, exploration should be 100% soloable. It was in core, with a couple of points in Orr (pre-nerf Noose Road and Balthazar) presenting a serious challenge, but still doable.

In HoT, I can solo Golem, but not vampire. I can solo Arrowhead and Mushroom, but only on pet/clone classes. I can’t even find some of the HC’s before I get frustrated and go do something fun.

Ultimately, this turns into a debate over what should be group content and what shouldn’t. ANet has pushed group content down our throats. It seems like everything meaningful requires groups. This includes completed exploration (in HoT), collections, a lot of rewards. MMO’s are indeed social games, but they flourish when they offer robust options for the soloist. GW2 HoT is lacking in the latter.

So how do you get the temple of balthazar HP without the temple being taken, in Straits of Devestation. I know I can’t solo that, certainly not on very profession. Nor can I take the temple solo.

@Vayne – So you don’t actually have to take the Cathedral of Glorious Victory to be able to gain that HP. I did it when the Pact didn’t hold that temple on a ranger just 2 days ago. All you have to do is rush up the steps to the statue, fight the few enemies at it, and then commune with it. This is definitely much easier to do on a class with movement skills, but should be easily doable on any class.

After completing all of Orr in the past 2 days on that ranger, the only HP that required me to take a temple was a statue of melandru in Cursed Shore that required you to take the Grenth temple. Everything else could be done if you didn’t hold the temples, but holding them definitely made it easier.

I must admit that I was dismayed when first playing VB. The verticality and the rather strong (=read: not stupid, rooted, soaking up all your dmg dummies) mobs did put me off. But that was not because HoT was too hard, but actually because core GW2 is much too easy. Under a retrospect, I had the most fun after having fully understood maps like VB and even TD. DS was pretty lame in comparison. Perhaps the maps in the next expac should be all like DS as I seldom read rants about that map design, only about the meta. I think most people’s problem is that they don’t want to adapt to the new content, but instead expect the new maps to play exactly like all Core Tyria. While that is a legit desire, it does not necessarily mean that not fulfilling your personal desire and meeting your expectations makes HoT a “bad” expac.

Think of earlier: the game was released and that was it. There were bugs, design flaws and whatnot. But the players worked their ways around, as there would be no patch coming. Nowadays, everybody seems to think that the game should be designed to meet their expectations, forgetting that the game was designed by people who have their own image of “good” content. If you don’t like something, you go into a forum, cry about it and expect a whole company to change their entire game only to fit your personal preference, totally ignoring that developing and designing a game with financial success in mind is to meet the broad majority of expectations, not every single one.

No offense, but when there used to be a game that I totally couldn’t stand, I just quit playing it and moved on to more fun stuff. With the plethora of games out there, this should actually be no problem, right? But at the moment, everybody seems to think that ANet’s game has to adapt to their wishes instead of them adapting to the new content. Back in the ol’ days, we used to call that “challenging” and would feel proud if finally overcoming that piece of the game. But not anymore, it seems.

Perhaps if ANet made HoT refundable, the players that don’t like it could just sell it and be on their way…? As it is now, you buy it and if you don’t like it, you are stuck, having spent some precious bucks on a game you are unlikely to enjoy. So basically, my advice would be to make the next expac with a playable demo so customers have the chance to see what awaits them before ultimately buying the expac.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked.

Let’s not forget that HC’s are also exploration content. Imo, exploration should be 100% soloable. It was in core, with a couple of points in Orr (pre-nerf Noose Road and Balthazar) presenting a serious challenge, but still doable.

In HoT, I can solo Golem, but not vampire. I can solo Arrowhead and Mushroom, but only on pet/clone classes. I can’t even find some of the HC’s before I get frustrated and go do something fun.

Ultimately, this turns into a debate over what should be group content and what shouldn’t. ANet has pushed group content down our throats. It seems like everything meaningful requires groups. This includes completed exploration (in HoT), collections, a lot of rewards. MMO’s are indeed social games, but they flourish when they offer robust options for the soloist. GW2 HoT is lacking in the latter.

So how do you get the temple of balthazar HP without the temple being taken, in Straits of Devestation. I know I can’t solo that, certainly not on very profession. Nor can I take the temple solo.

What OriOri said. I burn down the Vet Acolyte while watching out for the Plague Carriers it summons. The rest is just mopping up.

I’ve got at least 6 characters (different professions) who’ve soloed that point. My other characters mostly got lucky and found the temple open. I’ve only ever done the chain once. I usually don’t have that much time in one sitting.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked.

Let’s not forget that HC’s are also exploration content. Imo, exploration should be 100% soloable. It was in core, with a couple of points in Orr (pre-nerf Noose Road and Balthazar) presenting a serious challenge, but still doable.

In HoT, I can solo Golem, but not vampire. I can solo Arrowhead and Mushroom, but only on pet/clone classes. I can’t even find some of the HC’s before I get frustrated and go do something fun.

Ultimately, this turns into a debate over what should be group content and what shouldn’t. ANet has pushed group content down our throats. It seems like everything meaningful requires groups. This includes completed exploration (in HoT), collections, a lot of rewards. MMO’s are indeed social games, but they flourish when they offer robust options for the soloist. GW2 HoT is lacking in the latter.

Is it a debate over what should or should not be solo content? Because it sure sounds like you’re asking for only solo content in the next expansion. Map complete? Solo. Collections? Solo. HCs? Solo. What is left that should not be solo content in your estimation?

I’m fine with some of the “character development” (ie: hero points) being group based. Especially since if I really can’t get any help (looking at you Mushroom Queen), I can go grab some of the scrolls from wvw and get it that way. However, my preference is less than 50%. There are plenty of other things that the ‘group content’ tag can be applied to.

Admittedly, I was not a huge fan of the verticality in the maps at first. It made me think of KC (from Factions) on steroids, and I dreaded it. However, then, like now, once I learned my way around, it wasn’t quite as awful as I thought it’d be. I’d expect we’ll continue to see layered maps, and I’m ok with that.

As for power creep.. it’s going to happen. We saw it in GW1, we’ve seen it in GW2. We can only pray they get better at balancing in a swifter fashion.

I’m sure some of what I’m about to list is already mentioned, but if I read the whole thread and try to keep track of what is and isn’t mentioned, I’m going to wind up making too much of a mess of my own post. So, apologies for any repeating I’m about to do.

One kind of map.
Some people like the more open maps of the main world, some like the more vertical maps of HoT. Some like normal events, some like the zone-wide metas. You can’t please everyone entirely, but if you put in only one kind of map, you’re sure to disappoint some of us entirely. Yes, a mix means that everyone will have at least one map they don’t enjoy, but nobody will have to face an entire expansion like that.

A new currency for every map.
I wish I could say ANet has learned their lesson on this one, but it’s pretty clear that they really haven’t. Most maps in HoT and LS3 have their own currency. Stop it. (Yes, I’m counting Bloodstone Shards, Petrified Wood, ect. as a currency, because that’s one way to use them.)

A new type/level of Hero Points.
I’m sure ANet has already realized that some of us have characters that have gained plenty of hero points, but not spent them. The idea is that when the next expansion comes out, we’ll be done or nearly done with getting any elite specs that come with it. Don’t try to counter this by making them require special Expansion 2 Hero Points, or 800 Points (earned 20 at a time in expansion HP challenges). And don’t make the new elite require filling out the old elite, either. It’s not fun, don’t do it.

Overly confusing maps.
There’s a difference between complex and confusing. Complex can be good. Confusing is not. Better marked main paths, elevation changes, and well placed reliable waypoints are important.

Group Hero Point Challenges
Group challenges are fine, in fact I love the idea. Making them Hero Challenges is bad, though. Hero Challenges should be solo activities, so we can advance ourselves at our own speed. Put in the triggered group challenges as their own thing. And make them Points of Interest, so people trying to gather others for the event can call out the location on the map. (People that don’t know where “Bat” or “Spider” is will not go to help you when you call.)

One Shot Masteries.
If we go through the trouble of earning a mastery, it should be useful throughout the expansion and maybe beyond. Gliding is an example of a good mastery line. Exalted Lore is an example of a terrible mastery line because it’s of real use in one zone only. (Parts of it also make no sense for the story, but I can grudgingly forgive that.)

Raids.
Yes, I think raids were a bad idea, but I accept that more are coming. But they should NOT come as part of the next expansion. You’re still a long way from delivering on what was promised as the end reward for the HoT raids. Let’s not do that again. Raids need to be their own thing, separated from the timing of the expansion.

Lack of Dungeons.
Seems funny after what I just said about raids, I know, but there it is. The expansion should have a couple of them. Maybe not Story +3 Exploration paths, but there should be some. I would prefer if they could be soloed and adjust up for groups, but be more friendly for groups. Think of them as side stories contained within a large instance, that people can revisit as they wish. Just don’t go nuts on the rewards, nobody should feel “forced” to do them.

And…. that’s it for now, I guess.

That’s a pretty good list. I will say that about the new currencies for each map, in games its a way to make sure that players can’t get all of the new rewards on Day 1 of an expansion by saving up gold. And I agree with that, I think players should have to work for rewards. However, I also think ANet dropped the bomb with HoT and having 4 map specific currencies and having reclaimed metal plates and chakk eggs. With an expansion, all of the new maps will be released at once, so it should have a singular currency in my opinion. This way people still have to play through the expansion content to get rewards, but aren’t forced onto any specific map in the expansion just for currency.

For the HP issue, I 100% agree with you on this one. Personally my favorite way of addressing this would be to just give us 2 new elite specs per class. This would mean you would need at least 500 HP to max both of them, which would force you to do HP in the new expac to finish unlocking your elite specs.

Palador.2170:

A new currency for every map.
I wish I could say ANet has learned their lesson on this one, but it’s pretty clear that they really haven’t. Most maps in HoT and LS3 have their own currency. Stop it. (Yes, I’m counting Bloodstone Shards, Petrified Wood, ect. as a currency, because that’s one way to use them.)

Likely a change we won’t see. The constant changes of currency are there to extend play time for those who build entirely too much currency of one type. I wish they had stopped at the Unbound Magic for all 3 zones, but then it would pretty much lead to Bitterfrost never getting played. (It was not a good map for doing stuff. :\)

A new type/level of Hero Points.
I’m sure ANet has already realized that some of us have characters that have gained plenty of hero points, but not spent them. The idea is that when the next expansion comes out, we’ll be done or nearly done with getting any elite specs that come with it. Don’t try to counter this by making them require special Expansion 2 Hero Points, or 800 Points (earned 20 at a time in expansion HP challenges). And don’t make the new elite require filling out the old elite, either. It’s not fun, don’t do it.

Agreed. I’m not holding my breath that there won’t be point inflation, but I think the community was pretty clear before that we wanted the elite spec for doing the content, not as a reward for it.

Overly confusing maps.
There’s a difference between complex and confusing. Complex can be good. Confusing is not. Better marked main paths, elevation changes, and well placed reliable waypoints are important.

Amen to that. I’m really hoping ANet gives us some awesome mapping tools to do our own exploring with. Tangled Depths would be so much more tolerable that way.

Group Hero Point Challenges
Group challenges are fine, in fact I love the idea. Making them Hero Challenges is bad, though. Hero Challenges should be solo activities, so we can advance ourselves at our own speed. Put in the triggered group challenges as their own thing. And make them Points of Interest, so people trying to gather others for the event can call out the location on the map. (People that don’t know where “Bat” or “Spider” is will not go to help you when you call.)

This. And I’ll echo what I said earlier, because someone else brought up Queen Mushroom:
If it’s an awkward location to reach, out of the way of normal travel, either make it veteran/elite/commune.
If it’s in a well-traveled, identifiable area, I’m actually okay with champions/group events. I usually have no trouble finding folks for arrowhead or mushroom king.

One Shot Masteries.
If we go through the trouble of earning a mastery, it should be useful throughout the expansion and maybe beyond. Gliding is an example of a good mastery line. Exalted Lore is an example of a terrible mastery line because it’s of real use in one zone only. (Parts of it also make no sense for the story, but I can grudgingly forgive that.)

Poison Mastery. Not only was it a missed opportunity for substituting Stealth Mastery at Axemaster, it’s generally a useless ability that merely permits you to go into some parts of zones. It could have been so much more, but it’s really just there to clear a roadblock (of instant death, gg ANet). I really don’t want to see another one of those, unless I can use it to look smugly at a boss or five and gloat “Haha, your skill didn’t work on me!” It’s a petty feeling, but kind of important.

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so? Well, I say that enough of them should be solo content to allow players who prefer it that way to get their elite spec unlocked.

Let’s not forget that HC’s are also exploration content. Imo, exploration should be 100% soloable. It was in core, with a couple of points in Orr (pre-nerf Noose Road and Balthazar) presenting a serious challenge, but still doable.

In HoT, I can solo Golem, but not vampire. I can solo Arrowhead and Mushroom, but only on pet/clone classes. I can’t even find some of the HC’s before I get frustrated and go do something fun.

Ultimately, this turns into a debate over what should be group content and what shouldn’t. ANet has pushed group content down our throats. It seems like everything meaningful requires groups. This includes completed exploration (in HoT), collections, a lot of rewards. MMO’s are indeed social games, but they flourish when they offer robust options for the soloist. GW2 HoT is lacking in the latter.

So how do you get the temple of balthazar HP without the temple being taken, in Straits of Devestation. I know I can’t solo that, certainly not on very profession. Nor can I take the temple solo.

What OriOri said. I burn down the Vet Acolyte while watching out for the Plague Carriers it summons. The rest is just mopping up.

I’ve got at least 6 characters (different professions) who’ve soloed that point. My other characters mostly got lucky and found the temple open. I’ve only ever done the chain once. I usually don’t have that much time in one sitting.

And I can solo many HoT HPs, but I guarantee you most of the game’s population can’t solo all the Orr ones. Most of the Orr ones, but not all of them.

You can do it. I can solo most of the HoT ones. But there are definitely points in Orr some of the population can’t solo. SO what’s the difference.

I soloed the tengu HP on a necro in AB the other day, but that doesn’t make that HP soloable to everyone.

People say every HP should be soloable. Soloable to whom? How many? What percentage? Where do you draw that line? Where does Anet draw that line.

There’s a danger in making the game soloable because that line means different things to different people. I know some HPs in Orr aren’t soloable to people because I have people in my guild who can’t solo them.

Maybe those people have the same complaints about Orr you do about HoT. Should Anet listen to them as well?

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

I am a firm believer in a mix of group and solo content, including HPs…but thats a solid point. Group content on old maps could be a problem. This is a balancing act that needs to be taken into consideration for future content releases.

Perhaps group HP should be reworked as part of ew expansion/content releases?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.

Probably has more to do with the fact that few of the non-HoT maps persist long enough after the meta for it to be an issue. Sparkfly’s meta only takes place 6x/day and on most days, there’s no special reason to remain. In contrast, there all sorts of reasons lots of people will remain in HoT maps for hours.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

AliamRationem.5172:

Is it a debate over what should or should not be solo content? Because it sure sounds like you’re asking for only solo content in the next expansion. Map complete? Solo. Collections? Solo. HCs? Solo. What is left that should not be solo content in your estimation?

No, I don’t ask that collections be solo play. Since map completion requires HC’s, then yeah, I think they should all be soloable by the average player. [That’s also a response to Vayne.]

What’s not solo play for average players? Raids, dungeons, fractals, most HoT champions, most if not all group events, all map metas, collections, most of WvW and most of sPvP. In HoT, solo play means mini-games, some DE’s, gathering and some of the exploration objectives. So, yeah, HoT looks heavily weighted toward group play. All I’m asking is that HC’s not be group events because I’d like a goal (map complete) that means I’m not married to taxiing and the meta timers. If that’s too much to ask… if everything significant has to be group play, then this is no longer the game for me.

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

So you want HP to be nerfed because not everyone can solo them? How is this fair to the better players who want challenging solo content?

Looking forward to the reddit thread when Anet announces that the legendaries we paid for with HoT will be released in the next expansion, which will also be the same ridiculous price.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

Well, I am in maps all the time that are running HP trains. I also enjoy running them myself or just helping out if someone asks. Beyond that, I enjoy most challenges that involve combat and take a little effort. That’s what I like.

Like I’ve said many times already, I have no problem with making enough solo challenges available to allow players like yourself who don’t enjoy that type of gameplay to bypass it in order to unlock their elite specialization. HoT could have used a few more solo challenges to facilitate that.

My problem with your position is that you would like to see ALL hero challenges tailored to your preferences and none of them tailored to mine. It would remove an aspect of HoT that I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of.

I like the champion hero challenges, the complex exploration, and organized metas. It’s far more interesting to me than core Tyria-style gameplay. And again, as I’ve said before, I’m fine with them producing maps that are “flat”, with easy/no meta, and solo content the way they have been with LS3 maps. But I’m not interested in an expansion that only features those type of maps. I want to see more like TD and VB. That’s what I like.

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

So you want HP to be nerfed because not everyone can solo them? How is this fair to the better players who want challenging solo content?

First of all, this thread is about the next expansion. I am not asking for anything to be nerfed. Second, this game started with me being able to gain HP for my character on my own. If anything is not fair, it is forcing me to get other player help in order to gain points for my character. Group events for loot are fine. Leave my character stats to me.

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

Well, I am in maps all the time that are running HP trains.

Are they only announced in a special channel? Because I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a HP train in HoT.

AliamRationem.5172:

I also enjoy running them myself or just helping out if someone asks. Beyond that, I enjoy most challenges that involve combat and take a little effort. That’s what I like.

Like I’ve said many times already, I have no problem with making enough solo challenges available to allow players like yourself who don’t enjoy that type of gameplay to bypass it in order to unlock their elite specialization. HoT could have used a few more solo challenges to facilitate that.

My problem with your position is that you would like to see ALL hero challenges tailored to your preferences and none of them tailored to mine. It would remove an aspect of HoT that I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of.

As someone else already pointed out, MOST content in HoT is group content. Making one more type of content solo-able in the next expansion hardly tilts the balance away from group content.

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

So you want HP to be nerfed because not everyone can solo them? How is this fair to the better players who want challenging solo content?

First of all, this thread is about the next expansion. I am not asking for anything to be nerfed. Second, this game started with me being able to gain HP for my character on my own. If anything is not fair, it is forcing me to get other player help in order to gain points for my character. Group events for loot are fine. Leave my character stats to me.

If we’re being honest, the game still allows you to gain HPs for your character on your own.

- Verdant Brink has 8 solo hero challenges, and 3 group hero challenges.

- Auric Basin has 3 solo challenges, and 8 champion hero challenges.

- Tangled Depths has 4 solo, 7 group challenges.

- There are 7 solo hero challenges in DS, however to complete them all you will need to participate in the meta which is a group event all the way through.

So, if we’re taking the strictest possible interpretation you can only get 150 hero points in HoT completely 100% solo with no skill or group prerequisite involved. However, realistically without asking for any help you can get 220 including Dragon’s Stand, plus another gimme after completing the Tarir meta in AB for a total of 230 points.

It’s definitely more difficult than soloing or asking for help on a few champion hero challenges, as you need to unlock some masteries you otherwise wouldn’t and explore most of HoT to reach them all. But really, would it make sense any other way? Avoiding the more difficult challenges comes with its own cost in time/effort elsewhere.

Having said that, I think there should have been more solo challenges available so that motivated players who wish to avoid group challenges entirely could have done so. As it stands, realistically they can. But it’s a bit like scraping the barrel to get every last solo hero point in HoT.

I support the idea of having a better balance in the next expansion. Perhaps if we need 25 hero challenges to complete our specialization as it was in HoT, there should be 50 challenges available instead of 40. And instead of 22 solo/18 group we could have an even split of 25 of each. More content for everyone that way. I don’t think having a bunch of extra communes would put the developers through too much additional hardship, and it would obviously mean a lot to many players.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content

The progression of MY CHARACTER (stats) should not depend on other people. In core Tyria I can do Hero Points all by myself, etc.

You need only 25 HP from HoT maps to complete your spec, down to as few as 7-8 if you map complete core tyria. So its not as if you can’t finish your elite spec solo, its entirely possible.

Who said anything about only getting HP to complete my spec? And what about new players who prefer to get their spec entirely in HoT? Every HP should be soloable. I’m not against group events, just against group events for HP.

Why should every HP be solo-able? Because you say so?.

How about because there are fewer and fewer people in the HoT maps and there will be even less when they come out with the new Story episode and eventually the new Expansion?

There are? How could you tell? It’s megaserver. The meta events are still getting completed at all hours of the day and here you are telling me that you can’t get one or two extra people to show up for an HP? I’m having no such issues. So, no. Not buying it. There is no reason that all HPs need to be solo content. Some of us prefer a challenge and we also like to help others with group challenges. That doesn’t need to go away.

I am in maps all the time where people are asking for help on HCs. And if I am nearby or in the mood to help people I can go there and a good 80% of the time either no one joins us or 1 person joins us. There are a few HCs I can do with 2 other people but not most of the time. I’m glad if you can do all the HCs with 1 other person. You can probably solo them. But that is not the case with most of the people I encounter. We usually end up dead.

Well, I am in maps all the time that are running HP trains.

Are they only announced in a special channel? Because I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a HP train in HoT.

AliamRationem.5172:

I also enjoy running them myself or just helping out if someone asks. Beyond that, I enjoy most challenges that involve combat and take a little effort. That’s what I like.

Like I’ve said many times already, I have no problem with making enough solo challenges available to allow players like yourself who don’t enjoy that type of gameplay to bypass it in order to unlock their elite specialization. HoT could have used a few more solo challenges to facilitate that.

My problem with your position is that you would like to see ALL hero challenges tailored to your preferences and none of them tailored to mine. It would remove an aspect of HoT that I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of.

As someone else already pointed out, MOST content in HoT is group content. Making one more type of content solo-able in the next expansion hardly tilts the balance away from group content.

You’re being disingenuous. One “type” of content cannot just be written off as inconsequential. In the case of HoT, you’re referring to at least 17 hero point challenges and the resulting gameplay that players like myself enjoy.

As I said, I enjoy running HP trains. I enjoy attempting to solo champion hero challenges. Regardless of your concept of balance, it removes an aspect of gameplay that many of us enjoy simply so that you can have it your way.

As my previous post indicates, this is unnecessary. The next expansion could provide sufficient solo content to allow you to play the way you want to play without removing the gameplay that I enjoy.

AliamRationem.5172:

You’re being disingenuous. One “type” of content cannot just be written off as inconsequential. In the case of HoT, you’re referring to at least 17 hero point challenges and the resulting gameplay that players like myself enjoy.

As I said, I enjoy running HP trains. I enjoy attempting to solo champion hero challenges. Regardless of your concept of balance, it removes an aspect of gameplay that many of us enjoy simply so that you can have it your way.

As my previous post indicates, this is unnecessary. The next expansion could provide sufficient solo content to allow you to play the way you want to play without removing the gameplay that I enjoy.

How does this work in core?

• Players who want to solo champions can solo champions. Most maps beyond the 1-25 range have about as many as there are champion HC’s in HoT maps.
• Players who want to solo exploration can solo exploration.
• Instead of HC trains, there were champ trains.
• There’s no conflict. Both “sides” get what they want.

How does this work in HoT?

• Players who want to solo champions can solo champions.
• Players who want to solo exploration cannot, unless they can also solo champions.
• Instead of champ trains, there are HC trains.
• One “side” or the other has to lose out.

How could it work in the next XPac?

• Put in enough champions on the map as regular events.
• Either: drop HC’s as a component for map completion; or drop champions from HC’s.
• Make some of the champ events part of rewarding zone content. This would allow for trains. Make the other champs drop 1-2 champ bags — less rewarding than the other champs, but if you’re in it for harder content, the rewards should not matter.
• No conflict between solo explorers not capable of soloing champs and people wanting trains or solo challenge.

What could go wrong?

• If there is too much time between champ respawns, trains might gravitate to the less rewarding champs to fill the time. Upping the tempo on timers might fix this. ANet could also make the champ events start on demand the way HC’s do. That way someone who wanted to could kill one solo while the train was elsewhere without impacting the train. If they took the latter approach, they wouldn’t even need to have champs with lesser rewards.
• Players who profess to want challenge might decide to ignore the less-rewarding champs. That’s certainly what happened in core once the SW launched. Champ bags looked less enticing. If that were to happen, ANet will have wasted development time. Still, that’s often the case with harder content. It has limited longevity.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

You’re being disingenuous. One “type” of content cannot just be written off as inconsequential. In the case of HoT, you’re referring to at least 17 hero point challenges and the resulting gameplay that players like myself enjoy.

As I said, I enjoy running HP trains. I enjoy attempting to solo champion hero challenges. Regardless of your concept of balance, it removes an aspect of gameplay that many of us enjoy simply so that you can have it your way.

As my previous post indicates, this is unnecessary. The next expansion could provide sufficient solo content to allow you to play the way you want to play without removing the gameplay that I enjoy.

How does this work in core?

• Players who want to solo champions can solo champions. Most maps beyond the 1-25 range have about as many as there are champion HC’s in HoT maps.
• Players who want to solo exploration can solo exploration.
• Instead of HC trains, there were champ trains.
• There’s no conflict. Both “sides” get what they want.

How does this work in HoT?

• Players who want to solo champions can solo champions.
• Players who want to solo exploration cannot, unless they can also solo champions.
• Instead of champ trains, there are HC trains.
• One “side” or the other has to lose out.

How could it work in the next XPac?

• Put in enough champions on the map as regular events.
• Either: drop HC’s as a component for map completion; or drop champions from HC’s.
• Make some of the champ events part of rewarding zone content. This would allow for trains. Make the other champs drop 1-2 champ bags — less rewarding than the other champs, but if you’re in it for harder content, the rewards should not matter.
• No conflict between solo explorers not capable of soloing champs and people wanting trains or solo challenge.

What could go wrong?

• If there is too much time between champ respawns, trains might gravitate to the less rewarding champs to fill the time. Upping the tempo on timers might fix this. ANet could also make the champ events start on demand the way HC’s do. That way someone who wanted to could kill one solo while the train was elsewhere without impacting the train. If they took the latter approach, they wouldn’t even need to have champs with lesser rewards.
• Players who profess to want challenge might decide to ignore the less-rewarding champs. That’s certainly what happened in core once the SW launched. Champ bags looked less enticing. If that were to happen, ANet will have wasted development time. Still, that’s often the case with harder content. It has limited longevity.

Works for me. I prefer HoT to core Tyria maps in most every way (layouts, challenge, meta events), but I liked Orr, SW, and Southsun well enough. But given that when HoT had champion spawns like this players complained, I doubt we’re going to come to consensus on this.

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Works for me. I prefer HoT to core Tyria maps in most every way (layouts, challenge, meta events), but I liked Orr, SW, and Southsun well enough. But given that when HoT had champion spawns like this players complained, I doubt we’re going to come to consensus on this.

On further reflection, HoT HC trains are once-a-day for rewards, though you can kill the champs as as many times as you want. It was probably done that way because of the animosity over people killing champs out of sequence and because ANet preferred people do something besides the champ train. In order to preserve the HoT version, on demand champs would only reward 1/day. If the rewards were attractive enough, you’d probably see trains most times in the day.

Sometimes it just isn’t possible to give everyone what they want. I don’t think this needs to be one of those times.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Works for me. I prefer HoT to core Tyria maps in most every way (layouts, challenge, meta events), but I liked Orr, SW, and Southsun well enough. But given that when HoT had champion spawns like this players complained, I doubt we’re going to come to consensus on this.

On further reflection, HoT HC trains are once-a-day for rewards, though you can kill the champs as as many times as you want. It was probably done that way because of the animosity over people killing champs out of sequence and because ANet preferred people do something besides the champ train. In order to preserve the HoT version, on demand champs would only reward 1/day. If the rewards were attractive enough, you’d probably see trains most times in the day.

Sometimes it just isn’t possible to give everyone what they want. I don’t think this needs to be one of those times.

In general this game has a real problem with rewards. I mean, they let AB multimap go for this long (Finally doing something about it! Thanks! But why did it take you so long!?). The problem with champ trains is you don’t have a reason to do them beyond a stupid loot bag? Why bother? You can get more loot in HoT by just walking around looting the chests that appear after the event cycle.

I hope they do a better job of not only balancing rewards, but giving us a reason beyond the rewards themselves to participate in content. Hero Points at least give you a good reason each time you run a character through.