Guild Wars 2

- No contents for 10 months
- More than one year delay of Living Story
- Completely destruction of WvW by releasing the new maps and adding PvE contents to WvW
- Fractal is at its worst state ( Swamp of the Mist)
- Dungeons are non-existent because of rewards nerf
- False advertisement on Legendary Weapons

Almost every single popular streamers have quit GW2 to stream some other MMOs because there is simply nothing to do (docgotgame, chemsorly, nike, phantaram, mattvisual, ,…). Now even WoodenPotatoes is considering leaving the game.

They really need to fix their false advertising problem. People are never going to get their money’s worth for HoT now if they at all expected to have that legendary weapon content.

Sorry, but canceling content you advertised and then killed AFTER everyone paid for it and now will never get the content they paid for or even a refund is just all kinds of LAME.

the sad part is hot did indeed bring a lot of really great mechanics, ideas and features to gw2 – the 2 big problems that killed it, the new rules, and the marketing.

otherwise, if you step away from what they promised, don’t compare it to what they delivered….and just looked at it for what it is, 1 new character, a new way of travel with gliding, 4 large new areas with layers of levels to explore, tons of new stat combinations, new professions to add to your original characters…… Hot really has a lot to offer.

They promised a kitten and delivered a bunny, bunny’s are great – but they aren’t kittens and i’m sure most kitten lovers will be really upset by this. It doesn’t make the Bunny any less adorable! :p

So when I read about HoT, I don’t remember it saying that it would include all legendary weapons on release, but it would have some. Does anyone have a link to the legendary promises? I don’t want a paraphrase, but I wanted to see what it said.

Vayne.8563:

You playing less doesn’t make it a scam. It just makes it something you didn’t like.

It does when certain content was promised and was then paid for. Regardless whatever else has arrived on time, certain content was promised and advertised as being part of HoT, when any of the content that was a selling feature of said expansion is thrown away, that could be argued as a scam. People should not be asked to pay for content that isn’t fully realized or even off the drawing board that can change on a whim overnight.

I did not purchase HoT. I walked away from GW2 and Anet when they wanted money for an expansion that was filled with more promises than actual content. In checking back to see how it’s going, I do not regret my decision at all
I’ve since purchased a different MMO. Anet has tarnished their image for their next expansion already. Regardless what they do now, people will only remember the bad and cancelled content that was promised in a previously paid expansion.

Beldin.5498:

Halvorn.9831:

Loxias.2375:

It was a scam from the first hype and this game will never recover, quit kidding yourselves.

I spent nearly 4k hours in this game, truly entertained. I don’t know what you are talking about.

How many hours in HoT ? Personally i spent 7000 hours in game, but only 4-5 hours
in HoT … so thats why HoT was a scam .. and in the end it was only ok because i
played the game for free so long .. so paying 100€ for HoT was more or less a
present to ANet for the good days in GW2 before HoT.

Antinegative.4872:

No storyline is amazing enough that it will keep players coming back day after day, months after months to play the same quests

I agree with you, but even the HoT story was terrible, imo. HoT story content isn’t even in the same universe as “good” much less “amazing.”

I mean, SWTOR class stories are way, way better than the HoT story, and you had 8 of them that were all different, unlike the class stories here, which were unique for the first 8 or so instances and then all merged into the exact same story. Ugh.

Interesting… just 4-5 hours? Really? How can you judge the content after 4-5 hours???

I have spent hundreds of hours in HoT and “enjoyed it”. That’s the key, I had lots of fun exploring, playing the challenges, etc. I am now back in the old GW2 world using my new powers. All my toons are at 80 and I still have lots of fun. Now on the flip side of the coin, I would like to see new content in HoT and GW2 but calling HoT a flop is pushing it. Did they deceive us with the pre-HoT adverts? Yep… and that irritates me, but it did not remove the enjoyment I have playing GW2 and HoT :-)

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

You playing less doesn’t make it a scam. It just makes it something you didn’t like.

It does when certain content was promised and was then paid for. Regardless whatever else has arrived on time, certain content was promised and advertised as being part of HoT, when any of the content that was a selling feature of said expansion is thrown away, that could be argued as a scam. People should not be asked to pay for content that isn’t fully realized or even off the drawing board that can change on a whim overnight.

I did not purchase HoT. I walked away from GW2 and Anet when they wanted money for an expansion that was filled with more promises than actual content. In checking back to see how it’s going, I do not regret my decision at all
I’ve since purchased a different MMO. Anet has tarnished their image for their next expansion already. Regardless what they do now, people will only remember the bad and cancelled content that was promised in a previously paid expansion.

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

Put it another way. If I go and say to you if you lend me $10 I"ll pay you back and you lend it to me, and then after you lend it to me, my wife divorces me and cleans out my bank account, I might not end up paying you back. But I wasn’t scamming you.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

They can do it…. there are 3 new legendaries to prove it.

They can do it(legendary journey) but choose to work on next expansion at its expense.

Dashingsteel.3410:

They can do it…. there are 3 new legendaries to prove it.

Sure they can, at the expanse of other things. You have no clue what’s going on at Anet. Right now, Anet has made a decision to set aside indefinitely working on further legendaries to end the content drought sooner.

If you took a poll and asked the player base as a whole, not just the guys on reddit, how that would go down, I’m relatively sure most players would approve. Legendary weapons aren’t content for everyone.

Of course they could make the legendary weapons…at the expanse of further delaying content. It’s a bad trade off in my opinion. And it’s still not a scam.

Well their not doing it is at OUR expense….. After all we paid for an expansion that proudly hyped 16 new legendaries. 3 right after launch and others delivered in set intervals.

The 6 employees should have been yanked from the new expac……

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

I’m less concerned with their intentions and more concerned with their penchant for selling content they don’t later deliver.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m less concerned with their intentions and more concerned with their penchant for selling content they don’t later deliver.

It hasn’t really happened often in this game though. This current legendary system is probably the worst example of it.

I’m relatively sure the expansion underperformed. I believe Anet thought they would sell more copies. Keeping people busy making things isn’t going to work if more people don’t buy the expansion. So they look to see what will be further sell the expansion. It’s business, unfortunately.

I mean would I want legendary weapons in the game if making them would tank the game further? Probably not. What’s the point of legendary weapons if no one is playing to enjoy them.

The biggest problem Anet has right now, at this very moment, is the content drought. For most people legendary weapons aren’t going to solve that…in my opinion anyway.

I agree with Colin’s excuse for the cancelling of the legendary weapons (more developers on living world means more world content), but realistically all we got was that we lost a feature that was slated to be introduced with nothing palpable given in exchange.

I also think specializations were a Fail, they promised us more were to come, But they can’t even balance the ones they have. There are so many posts about the same things over and over, and they do nothing. Is it surprising so many people have left/ are leaving?Even their GM is leaving..now that takes the cake!

Esquilax.3491:

I agree with Colin’s excuse for the cancelling of the legendary weapons (more developers on living world means more world content), but realistically all we got was that we lost a feature that was slated to be introduced with nothing palpable given in exchange.

Yep, no reward for those of us that bought the game with that expectation. Just more lip service and not even a pittance of an apology or makegood… Only the unreasonable expectation to keep us all waiting for content we paid for while we get the middle finger every day we login called “New Gem Store Items Available!”

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

It’s simple, really. They gave us a list of things we were getting for our money. We paid our money for the list. They shortened the list after they pocketed our money. This isn’t right regardless of the reasoning. I’m not going to make excuses for a business where it is their business to accurately plan and produce something they can actually deliver. It’s called good planning and follow-through. Not knowing what you can actually do before you take the money is bad business no matter how you slice it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

I’m not confusing anything. Look, someone believes they can do something, it’s written in. An architect is bulding your house and he believes stuff can be done within budget and six months later he tells you it can’t. That’s not false advertising or a scam. There are a million examples from real life.

One would think that sometimes projects go overbudget and past deadlines.

Now SHOULD legendary weapons be finished. Absolutely. Do we know that legendary weapons are shelved instead of indefinitely delayed (a point I think Mike should address). No, we don’t.

The set a certain roadmap based on expectations of how long things would take, how well the game would do. I think Anet had to put a LOT more resources into fixing HOT than they expected to, so of course that changes their ability to deliver.

What real companies do is make decisions that suck sometimes, whether it’s layoffs or pay freezes, or cutting costs. And yeah it sucks.

But if you think this game is doing amazingly well right now, I’d have to disagree. I absolutely believe they expected to be able to do the legendaries faster and cheaper than they turned out.

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

I’m not confusing anything. Look, someone believes they can do something, it’s written in. An architect is bulding your house and he believes stuff can be done within budget and six months later he tells you it can’t. That’s not false advertising or a scam. There are a million examples from real life.

One would think that sometimes projects go overbudget and past deadlines.

Now SHOULD legendary weapons be finished. Absolutely. Do we know that legendary weapons are shelved instead of indefinitely delayed (a point I think Mike should address). No, we don’t.

The set a certain roadmap based on expectations of how long things would take, how well the game would do. I think Anet had to put a LOT more resources into fixing HOT than they expected to, so of course that changes their ability to deliver.

What real companies do is make decisions that suck sometimes, whether it’s layoffs or pay freezes, or cutting costs. And yeah it sucks.

But if you think this game is doing amazingly well right now, I’d have to disagree. I absolutely believe they expected to be able to do the legendaries faster and cheaper than they turned out.

My take on it is, a company years in the business advertised a product and they listed the price and the items that will be in that product. After purchase, they say they have taken all of the people off the crafting of one of the items and the crafting of it is suspended indefinitely.

Now, when are they going to restart the crafting of this item that has already been paid for?
1) before the next expansion? The people were pulled off of crafting the item to work on content leading up to the next expansion. It’s not likely at all they will be put back on any time before it. Not if it took them months to get one item done and the project has been sitting for X months so that all momentum has been lost,
2) right after the expansion? That’s when they are extremely busy fixing bugs and working on more items paid for with that expansion. It’s not likely at all that they will be put back on at that time. Those people will all have post expansion projects to do.
3) months after the expansion? Well, you mean like the time now but after that expansion? If they don’t have the manpower now to do open world content, it’s not likely they’ll have it then. Again, those people have all their new projects so it’s not likely.

So when? When realistically will they start recrafting this item that was bought and paid for but not yet delivered?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

I’m not confusing anything. Look, someone believes they can do something, it’s written in. An architect is bulding your house and he believes stuff can be done within budget and six months later he tells you it can’t. That’s not false advertising or a scam. There are a million examples from real life.

One would think that sometimes projects go overbudget and past deadlines.

Now SHOULD legendary weapons be finished. Absolutely. Do we know that legendary weapons are shelved instead of indefinitely delayed (a point I think Mike should address). No, we don’t.

The set a certain roadmap based on expectations of how long things would take, how well the game would do. I think Anet had to put a LOT more resources into fixing HOT than they expected to, so of course that changes their ability to deliver.

What real companies do is make decisions that suck sometimes, whether it’s layoffs or pay freezes, or cutting costs. And yeah it sucks.

But if you think this game is doing amazingly well right now, I’d have to disagree. I absolutely believe they expected to be able to do the legendaries faster and cheaper than they turned out.

My take on it is, a company years in the business advertised a product and they listed the price and the items that will be in that product. After purchase, they say they have taken all of the people off the crafting of one of the items and the crafting of it is suspended indefinitely.

Now, when are they going to restart the crafting of this item that has already been paid for?
1) before the next expansion? The people were pulled off of crafting the item to work on content leading up to the next expansion. It’s not likely at all they will be put back on any time before it. Not if it took them months to get one item done and the project has been sitting for X months so that all momentum has been lost,
2) right after the expansion? That’s when they are extremely busy fixing bugs and working on more items paid for with that expansion. It’s not likely at all that they will be put back on at that time. Those people will all have post expansion projects to do.
3) months after the expansion? Well, you mean like the time now but after that expansion? If they don’t have the manpower now to do open world content, it’s not likely they’ll have it then. Again, those people have all their new projects so it’s not likely.

So when? When realistically will they start recrafting this item that was bought and paid for but not yet delivered?

Not really part of the conversation. If’ it’s not doable right now, it’s not doable right now, PERIOD. Situations change in business all the time. That’s a fact. I’ve been involved in too many businesses. Maybe that’s why I expect stuff to change without warning, particularly with an MMO.

Does it look great for the company? Of course not. But if the company is struggling they do what they have to, no matter what they said. Do you think this company isn’t struggling at this time?

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

I’m not confusing anything. Look, someone believes they can do something, it’s written in. An architect is bulding your house and he believes stuff can be done within budget and six months later he tells you it can’t. That’s not false advertising or a scam. There are a million examples from real life.

One would think that sometimes projects go overbudget and past deadlines.

Now SHOULD legendary weapons be finished. Absolutely. Do we know that legendary weapons are shelved instead of indefinitely delayed (a point I think Mike should address). No, we don’t.

The set a certain roadmap based on expectations of how long things would take, how well the game would do. I think Anet had to put a LOT more resources into fixing HOT than they expected to, so of course that changes their ability to deliver.

What real companies do is make decisions that suck sometimes, whether it’s layoffs or pay freezes, or cutting costs. And yeah it sucks.

But if you think this game is doing amazingly well right now, I’d have to disagree. I absolutely believe they expected to be able to do the legendaries faster and cheaper than they turned out.

My take on it is, a company years in the business advertised a product and they listed the price and the items that will be in that product. After purchase, they say they have taken all of the people off the crafting of one of the items and the crafting of it is suspended indefinitely.

Now, when are they going to restart the crafting of this item that has already been paid for?
1) before the next expansion? The people were pulled off of crafting the item to work on content leading up to the next expansion. It’s not likely at all they will be put back on any time before it. Not if it took them months to get one item done and the project has been sitting for X months so that all momentum has been lost,
2) right after the expansion? That’s when they are extremely busy fixing bugs and working on more items paid for with that expansion. It’s not likely at all that they will be put back on at that time. Those people will all have post expansion projects to do.
3) months after the expansion? Well, you mean like the time now but after that expansion? If they don’t have the manpower now to do open world content, it’s not likely they’ll have it then. Again, those people have all their new projects so it’s not likely.

So when? When realistically will they start recrafting this item that was bought and paid for but not yet delivered?

Not really part of the conversation. If’ it’s not doable right now, it’s not doable right now, PERIOD. Situations change in business all the time. That’s a fact. I’ve been involved in too many businesses. Maybe that’s why I expect stuff to change without warning, particularly with an MMO.

Does it look great for the company? Of course not. But if the company is struggling they do what they have to, no matter what they said. Do you think this company isn’t struggling at this time?

You’re seeing it from the side of the struggling business, (If they are struggling, they haven’t told us that. That’s only an inference).

I’m seeing it from the side of a customer who bought something from a business and now has been told that the business has stopped work on part of my purchase and they’ve not told me when it’s going to restart. As a customer I feel that it is a reasonable expectation of a business that isn’t providing an item bought and paid for that they can tell me when I can expect to see the item they’ve stopped working on, or they give some sort refund/discount for items bought but not provided

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

A restaurant advertises a certain dish. For various reasons, months later, they can’t do that dish anymore. Doesn’t matter the reasons. That’s not a scam. Unless you can prove when Anet announced it they had no intention of doing it. Then it would be a scam.

This is called kitten happens. People need to learn the difference.

No, no. This is not the same thing. If a restaurant advertised a certain dish, then I ordered and paid for said dish and then they only brought me half of it and told me I could have the rest in 6 months, maybe if they don’t change their minds by then.
That would be the same thing.

Or if you went into a restaurant and ordered chicken. That’s it. Just chicken and the condition was you had to pay for it up front and they would make it however they felt like and you had to eat it, even if it was some way you didn’t like.

Point being, Anet should have prepared the exac, advertised exactly what was in it and charged for it. Not make promises and/or wishy washy statements about whats to come and expect people to pay for it and be happy with whatever they get.

Okay then. A politician makes a promise. He says I’m going to get this law passes. At the time he makes the promise the senate is republican. Then he gets into office but at the same time, the congress is no longer republican and he can’t pass the law. It’s not fraud. It’s changing circumstance.

Do you have any evidence that when those legendaries were announced, Anet had no intention of delivering them?

Not the same either, unless it was your hard earned money that bought that politician and his promises.

You’re confusing a product bought and paid for but only partially delivered with a restaurant changing its menu (before you buy something) and a politician trying to get elected. Those are awful analogies.

I’m not confusing anything. Look, someone believes they can do something, it’s written in. An architect is bulding your house and he believes stuff can be done within budget and six months later he tells you it can’t. That’s not false advertising or a scam. There are a million examples from real life.

One would think that sometimes projects go overbudget and past deadlines.

Now SHOULD legendary weapons be finished. Absolutely. Do we know that legendary weapons are shelved instead of indefinitely delayed (a point I think Mike should address). No, we don’t.

The set a certain roadmap based on expectations of how long things would take, how well the game would do. I think Anet had to put a LOT more resources into fixing HOT than they expected to, so of course that changes their ability to deliver.

What real companies do is make decisions that suck sometimes, whether it’s layoffs or pay freezes, or cutting costs. And yeah it sucks.

But if you think this game is doing amazingly well right now, I’d have to disagree. I absolutely believe they expected to be able to do the legendaries faster and cheaper than they turned out.

My take on it is, a company years in the business advertised a product and they listed the price and the items that will be in that product. After purchase, they say they have taken all of the people off the crafting of one of the items and the crafting of it is suspended indefinitely.

Now, when are they going to restart the crafting of this item that has already been paid for?
1) before the next expansion? The people were pulled off of crafting the item to work on content leading up to the next expansion. It’s not likely at all they will be put back on any time before it. Not if it took them months to get one item done and the project has been sitting for X months so that all momentum has been lost,
2) right after the expansion? That’s when they are extremely busy fixing bugs and working on more items paid for with that expansion. It’s not likely at all that they will be put back on at that time. Those people will all have post expansion projects to do.
3) months after the expansion? Well, you mean like the time now but after that expansion? If they don’t have the manpower now to do open world content, it’s not likely they’ll have it then. Again, those people have all their new projects so it’s not likely.

So when? When realistically will they start recrafting this item that was bought and paid for but not yet delivered?

Not really part of the conversation. If’ it’s not doable right now, it’s not doable right now, PERIOD. Situations change in business all the time. That’s a fact. I’ve been involved in too many businesses. Maybe that’s why I expect stuff to change without warning, particularly with an MMO.

Does it look great for the company? Of course not. But if the company is struggling they do what they have to, no matter what they said. Do you think this company isn’t struggling at this time?

You’re seeing it from the side of the struggling business, (If they are struggling, they haven’t told us that. That’s only an inference).

I’m seeing it from the side of a customer who bought something from a business and now has been told that the business has stopped work on part of my purchase and they’ve not told me when it’s going to restart. As a customer I feel that it is a reasonable expectation of a business that isn’t providing an item bought and paid for that they can tell me when I can expect to see the item they’ve stopped working on, or they give some sort refund/discount for items bought but not provided

No I’m seeing is from a consumers point of view. Anet doesn’t have ONE single responsibility. They’re not JUST responsible for providing legendary weapons. They’re responsible for providing a playable game that retains players or there wont’ be a game and all the legendary weapons in the world won’t do me a bit of good.

So that said, if they have to put off legendaries to fix the game, yeah, I’m all for that. Because that is part of their responsibility.

They already lost me as a customer like 2 months ago, but I’m always interested to see if they’ll ever get back on track. At the moment it doesn’t seem so.

The real problem was the price tag of the expansion. You just can’t sell 20$ worth of unbalanced and unfinished content for 50$, then say you’re going to make it up with extra content and updates in the future, and then backoff on that promise.

Huge issues like broken WvW have remained unfixed for 6 months, the WvW overhaul has supposedly been in the work for over a year yet they tell us to lower our expectations and that it will come out in tiny updates. I was part of that community and we were all getting bored to death even in Tier 1. We wasted so much money transferring servers just to find a place where WvW didn’t suck.

PvP balance is simply broken since the new trait system and it’s never going to get fixed because it is being handled by people who do not understand how the initial balance worked with stats being tied to trait lines.

The new professions, like Tempest, aren’t fun and the design quality is really questionable, there is no synergy or combos between the skills because you have to camp attunements. The special effects look rushed.

They promised so much to justify the high price tag, they even promised bigger Guild Halls arenas for GvG when people told them they looked too small. Meanwhile they couldn’t even get to program a scoreboard and I would bet anything that this promise will never be realized. So many broken promises and inflated price tag will never create an happy customer.

And I’m not even talking here about the lack of rewards and how the game turned into a grind fest.

Been having fun catching up on Ps4 games.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

As a long time gamer, I’d like to fix that for you:
The most important thing is the entertainment value, which is a combination of reward, story, combat, social system, customization, progression, and more.

Agree with your other points but here’s seconding the entertainment observation because it’s amazing how often both devs and gamers seem to forget it (to their peril).

If people are not having fun they will move on to other things. And as you and the OP mention, it is the sum of a number of things but one thing I’ve learned for me: after many years of gaming, arbitrary content gates are definitely not fun. They smack of devs rationing out meager content or a lack of imagination or both. That said, I am hopeful things will change for the better in the coming months and in the meantime, I am much happy playing GW2 since I decided to ignore the HoT zones.

Xillllix.3485:

And I’m not even talking here about the lack of rewards and how the game turned into a grind fest.

Been having fun catching up on Ps4 games.

I hate to say it, but I’ve been playing games again that I left to come play this one. And the overall feeling when I go back is, “Wow, I used to think this game was grindy, but now it doesn’t feel that way anymore!” lol Sad.

For me, GW2 has ended up being the grindiest MMO I’ve ever played. I still like a lot of aspects of it, but the grind has been hard for me to get around. HoT didn’t really help with this, either.

You know… “False” advertisement for legendary weapons was the the first time they did “false” advertisement. cough cough manifesto.

But yeah, let’s write this one off again as “nothing is set in stone”!

:D

Zero Day.2594:

You know… “False” advertisement for legendary weapons was the the first time they did “false” advertisement. cough cough manifesto.

But yeah, let’s write this one off again as “nothing is set in stone”!

:D

It amuses me every time someone complains about the manifesto after all these years.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Zero Day.2594:

You know… “False” advertisement for legendary weapons was the the first time they did “false” advertisement. cough cough manifesto.

But yeah, let’s write this one off again as “nothing is set in stone”!

:D

It amuses me every time someone complains about the manifesto after all these years.

Well, Mark O’Brien himself invoked the manifesto in this last statement about cancelling Legendaries. So it’s fair game to complain about it.

If woodenpotatoes leaves then I’m out. If someone so passionate for the game and it’s lore decides to quit then that’s a pretty big sign the game’s going downhill.

well, hot does seem to have everyone’s kitten in a bunch! O.o

I’m just scared that ANET will announce the next expansion pack and include some other half baked new way to level. “Ok, guys, we realize masteries were a fail. Let’s try some new thing”

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Zero Day.2594:

You know… “False” advertisement for legendary weapons was the the first time they did “false” advertisement. cough cough manifesto.

But yeah, let’s write this one off again as “nothing is set in stone”!

:D

It amuses me every time someone complains about the manifesto after all these years.

Same will be said about the legendaries, give it time.

At this point, leveling and new gear might actually give people something to do.

Giving me more pointless masteries to grind isn’t going to cut it for me, though.

Ellieanna.5027:

So when I read about HoT, I don’t remember it saying that it would include all legendary weapons on release, but it would have some. Does anyone have a link to the legendary promises? I don’t want a paraphrase, but I wanted to see what it said.

Here is the first link. You need to scroll down to the legendary weapons part
https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

And here is another link
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

Both talk about adding 16 new legendary weapons to the game.

It was all going to boil down to “Go grind 30 Deldrimor steel ingots, some spiritwood planks and a metric ton of Amalgalated gems, go immersion!” anyway. That they would leave dungeons completely out of these journeys and replace them with countless grinds was and still is a massive letdown.

Butter.3024:

- Fractal is at its worst state ( Swamp of the Mist)

i dispute this one, there are areas fractals could improve for sure (like incentivising away from swamp meta) BUT i never had interest in them before they switched to only needing 1 per run, plus the legendary journeys encourage you to do different ones

Sidizen.9048:

If woodenpotatoes leaves then I’m out. If someone so passionate for the game and it’s lore decides to quit then that’s a pretty big sign the game’s going downhill.

When I quit, that will be the sign and I won’t be doing that any time soon.

The ironic part is if they didn’t label it an expansion, but downloaded content for Living World, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. Said it before and will say it again, “People had no idea how much Living World kept casuals interested. A sudden content drought isn’t going to go well after seeing new content every two weeks to two months.”

But no, people had to have their ‘expansion’. It won’t hurt interest, they told us. And here we are. . . .

Sidizen.9048:

If woodenpotatoes leaves then I’m out. If someone so passionate for the game and it’s lore decides to quit then that’s a pretty big sign the game’s going downhill.

Agreed.

Please don’t speak on behalf of everyone as I have no interest in rewards.

The PvP/WvW combat system is THE ONLY reason I still play GW2 after 7k hours.

Butter.3024:

- Completely destruction of WvW by releasing the new maps and adding PvE contents to WvW

I am genuinely beginning to believe WvW players have no idea what “PVE” even means, and just use it to mean “thing I don’t like”.

- Fractal is at its worst state ( Swamp of the Mist)

Unless you’re one of the people who gets mad that other players are Doing Fractals Wrong, fractals are the best and most rewarding they’ve ever been (not that this says very much). It’s really, really nice to only have to do Cliffside occasionally instead of 90% of the time like I used to.

Actually… HoT failed because of depending on existing customer kludges to make the game playable.

The expansion was/is highly dependent on a server system that was broken and dependent on a player workaround, and instead of fixing that first… ANET released a group dependent expansion and still, to this day, expect players to use a broken LFG system to get to populated maps which they discover by being ridiculed for not knowing on the forum or chat channel.

That is the most unbelievable failure of game mechanic implementation I’ve ever seen in a MMO.

Antinegative.4872:

Right after the initial release of HoT, initial sentiment is that there is a lack of content, some being incomplete. However, people held onto hope as they waited for the coming future releases to fill out what’s missing. Instead, it seems like more and more stuff is getting delayed or outright gutted instead.

First, there were only 4 new zones in a expansion, and one of which is badly balanced and is little played. The rest 3 zones features only major meta events instead of small quests such as hearts that are all geared toward getting components for the coming legendarie weapons. Then you have the 2 newly raid zones, whose rewards are heavily direct toward collecting parts for the coming legendary armors. There was also 0 new dungeons in the expansion, and the only dungeons revamped are fractals, whose ultimate reward is the legendary backpack Ad Infinitum.

But right now, Ad Infinitum is not in the game, nor is mentioned when will be released. Legendary armor doesn’t seem anywhere close to being introduced, and you just outright cancelled the majority of the rest of the legendary weapons. So what you have now in the expansion is a heavily revamped dungeon that promises no end item, a new feature called raid whose rewards doesn’t exist(and by the look of things, might possibly not exist at all), and 3 major zones where people grinded endlessly for items that are never gonna happen.

As a long time MMO player, I’d like to remind you the most important thing in a RPG game is not the story, not the combat, not the social system, it’s the reward. The game needs everything mentioned above to be a good game, but you should get your priorities straight. No storyline is amazing enough that it will keep players coming back day after day, months after months to play the same quests, and no combat system is great enough for players to hack away at the same old monsters for hundreds, some times thousands of hours over and over. Everyone keeps playing the same content again and again because we are all chasing that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow(whether we ever get to it is another story, but at least we are all trying). So seriously, stop making dumb moves, please. Jesus.

I would disagree with the reward part there. I guess it’s different for everyone but I find the story and combat to be much more important than the reward. If its not fun to play then I’m not playing it regardless of what the reward is.

While the expansion was disappointing in a number of ways, I wouldn’t say it’s falling apart.

As a long time MMO player, I’d like to remind you the most important thing in a RPG game is not the story, not the combat, not the social system, it’s the reward.

Important, yes, but most important? That’s subjective. I would also consider the process of getting the reward to be as important as well, and if people consider it fun enough to be worth doing.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Butter.3024:

- Completely destruction of WvW by releasing the new maps and adding PvE contents to WvW

I am genuinely beginning to believe WvW players have no idea what “PVE” even means, and just use it to mean “thing I don’t like”.

- Fractal is at its worst state ( Swamp of the Mist)

Unless you’re one of the people who gets mad that other players are Doing Fractals Wrong, fractals are the best and most rewarding they’ve ever been (not that this says very much). It’s really, really nice to only have to do Cliffside occasionally instead of 90% of the time like I used to.

WvW players know full well what PvE means. WvW players did not ask for keep/tower lords to get AI and mechanics and they did not ask for an event in the middle of the map where you have to kill mobs to power up the cannon. Which I might add was only removed because of a problem with Guild Missions (pve).

For 3 years there was no way to acquire armour or weapons stats outside of a select few from the WvW vendor and even so for 3 years WvW players were reluctant to buy WvW armour/weapons because they could not be salvaged to get your runes/sigils back. For 3 years players had to do dungeons (pve) to get the stats they wanted and even to this day ascended armour can not be gotten through WvW. The new stats introduced in HoT well guess what, WvW players can’t get them through WvW either. Want legendary weapons well guess what….want legendary back item well guess what…

Maybe play the game mode then comment about wvw players complaining about pve.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Butter.3024:

- Completely destruction of WvW by releasing the new maps and adding PvE contents to WvW

I am genuinely beginning to believe WvW players have no idea what “PVE” even means, and just use it to mean “thing I don’t like”.

- Fractal is at its worst state ( Swamp of the Mist)

Unless you’re one of the people who gets mad that other players are Doing Fractals Wrong, fractals are the best and most rewarding they’ve ever been (not that this says very much). It’s really, really nice to only have to do Cliffside occasionally instead of 90% of the time like I used to.

1) The maps are too big, it’s just too hard for people to find and fight each other so the only thing you end up doing is fighting npc. That’s what he mean that just too much PvE. The only thing you do in those map is PvE. Now the problem in my opinion is more about the size and complexity of movement of those maps that pushed players out of them, making them PvE maps. The PvE side is a sideffect, not really the cause.

2) Now you gonna have to defend your position. You complain that you used to do cliffside 90%. I guess that mean that you used to play Swap, something, cliffside on most occasion right? And now it’s Swamp, Swamp, Swamp. What is the improvement?

The thing is, the older fractal had their issues and instead of fixing those issues, they created other problem.

- The gold reward is better, yup they got it right. They also have about the same ascended reward in level 51+ than it used to be at level 50. But we used to be able to get ascended reward in level 40, 30 and 20 in decent droprate. Which we don’t have anymore in level under 51.

- We used to have about 20 different instability. Some were good, some were bad. We now have less than 10 instability and they kept the worst one. The instability that you can’t counter, that are random or remove some mechanics out of the game.

- There is no reason to do anything else than triple swamp and there is no reason to do higher level than 80 outside of achievements.

- They added difficulty by increasing the defense of mobs, while keeping their damage stable or nerfing it. Making fight longer, not more challenging.

We can argue all day if pre-hot were better than post-hot fractal. For me, pre-hot were way better, for you they are better. The fact is, they didn’t improve them, they can modify them. The just changed the way they worked and it’s better for some people and worst for other (and so far it seem that more people prefer pre-hot and post hot, but I could be wrong).