Guild Wars 2

Roy you’ve absolutely made my day here. As a passionate Ranger I can honestly say, thank you Sir. -tips hat-

Logged in to say TY ANET !

My ranger is very happy to not see her pet die from aoes anymore. And this change opens so many build options that were not possible in pve (except open world) ! Especially against fractal/raid bosses.

@Anchoku : if you really want a minion to die, switch the skill to something else.

edit : my ranger right now

I’m sorry but the moment i’ve seen the article i could think of only 1 thing:

All necro’s, rangers, some ele’s and hopefully mesmers included in the video

better late than never……this is GREAT news for pve.
my ranger thanks you.

As a person whose only level 80s are a Mesmer and a Ranger, I can’t thank you enough for this change. Will make a huge difference to my play experience.

Warning to Devs:

Do not implement this in WvW. I spend 90% of my time in WvW, and this would be a terrible change. Yes, certain trait lines are not viable in WvW, but not every trait line is, regardless of if it’s a pet class or not. Some traits are designed for WvW, some aren’t. But here’s the big concern: statistical damage reduction.

What do I mean by this? If you have 5 players standing in an AoE circle, then all the players will take 100% of the damage. Now, lets say those 5 players are pet classes and each has 4 pets out, standing in an AoE cirlcle. Those players now have 80% damage reduction due to the statistical chance of them getting hit. This would make it the most powerful class of classes in the game.

Untill this issue is addressed, pets shouldn’t be buffed for WvW.

Thanks for implementing this for PvE

I thought this was a systemic change. Not just a PVE change.

So in other words for PVP and WVW nothing was done. The viability of minions in PVP is just as much an issue as in pve. Pets run through fire over and over.

Maybe a less dramatic shift like 50% damage reduction?

But now this will serve to discourage new pvpers who mostly pve. They will come in and wonder why their pet dies literally 95% faster in pvp vs pve.

Makes me Wonder.

Raid Bosses prioritize targets with Highest Toughness
Bear Pet Tanking, anyone?
Immortal Bear pet Tanking, anyone?

Donari.5237:

Sounds like this will fix the mesmer issue with that one boss in Hidden Arcana (the one where you get a shield by killing the right color mini mob so you can enter the death zone to dps the boss).

I just did this boss today with my messar, but I not notice a problem, or do you mean by the fact, my illusions could not harm it due to dieing in the field right away.. Because of that, I mostly focus on the other attacks.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We felt like minions were in a good place for PvP so we didn’t want to change them there for now. Thus, the interaction between players and minions in PvP combat will remain the same.

Hi Roy, I know I already posted my feedback but I just wanted to add one more thing. In essence, I disagree that pets are ok in pvp. reason? well, it’s not ok for pets to die to RANDOM damage. someone killing the pet should be at least a little bit skill-based, i.e. it should at least require the enemy to target the pet. have a look at this:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Imo, if they were to implement a damage reduction for pets using the Mistlock Instability:Playing Favorites mechanic, then pets would be in a good place for both PvP and WvW.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Yes, certain trait lines are not viable in WvW, but not every trait line is, regardless of if it’s a pet class or not. Some traits are designed for WvW, some aren’t.

There’s kind of an entire class that’s so reliant on its pets that you can’t just not use them. Sure, engineers can just not use turrets, or necros can just not use minions.
Go ahead and try a mesmer out in the zerg, though. After you’ve finished banging your head against your desk and swap back to a more sane class, come back here. I’ll be waiting :P

Spurnshadow.3678:

But here’s the big concern: statistical damage reduction.

What do I mean by this? If you have 5 players standing in an AoE circle, then all the players will take 100% of the damage. Now, lets say those 5 players are pet classes and each has 4 pets out, standing in an AoE cirlcle. Those players now have 80% damage reduction due to the statistical chance of them getting hit. This would make it the most powerful class of classes in the game.

Untill this issue is addressed, pets shouldn’t be buffed for WvW.

Buffs/boons/healing already prioritize players over pets. Wouldn’t it be simple enough to do the same for damage?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Diovid.9506:

Just to clarify: Is this just for raids or for all PvE?

All of PvE, any creature attacks.

I love you, I really really love you! As a Ranger, Mes, Necro, I love you.
Ima make you some cookies I love you so much right now

Tragic Positive.9356:

Makes me Wonder.

Raid Bosses prioritize targets with Highest Toughness
Bear Pet Tanking, anyone?
Immortal Bear pet Tanking, anyone?

Minions that are targeted take full damage.

Could you not make minions invulnerable when the player is dodging.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Makes me Wonder.

Raid Bosses prioritize targets with Highest Toughness
Bear Pet Tanking, anyone?
Immortal Bear pet Tanking, anyone?

He said if the pet has aggro the damage they take isn’t reduced.

To do that, we made it so that unless a minion is specifically targeted by a creature, they will be dealt drastically reduced damage and condition duration from attacks.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Makes me Wonder.

Raid Bosses prioritize targets with Highest Toughness
Bear Pet Tanking, anyone?
Immortal Bear pet Tanking, anyone?

Minions that are targeted take full damage.

Oh, sorry, missed that by accident. I didn’t say anything at all.

If it works like that, how do world bosses target?

Do they target specific enemies like normal NPCs or they are like some scripted object that throw AoEs around?

For anyone suggesting this should be applied to WvW, then what damage reduction would you propose?

If they did something like 95% to make pets survive zerg vs zerg battles, then would pets become too hard to stop in small group / solo fights? – especially with like Necros and Mesmers putting out a lot of minions.
(Plus the potential meta exploit of bringing lots of pets with the zerg to soak up AoE, since they would now live long enough to actually soak up a significant amount.)

But if it’s toned down to keep those other problems from happening, would it still be enough to make pets noticeably more survivable during zerg vs zerg?

There might not actually be a single damage reduction value that would make sense across WvW. It might need to scale per the number of opposing players in the area. But I doubt A.Net would even try to implement something like that…

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Blackarps.1974:

When you say that they are remaining the same for PvP, does that mean WvW too? Please say yes.

This is only for creature attacks against player minions. Player attacks against minions keeps the same functionality as it has right now. This is for everywhere.

That makes it sound like it will apply for any NPC AoE attacks in WvW. I dunno if that’s an issue – just a matter of clarification.

But preemptively thinking about a potential issue: If Player A’s pet hits Player B’s pet with an untargetted attack/AoE, does it count as a creature attack and get reduced damage or a player attack and work normally?

This is pretty amazing news. I play PvP/WvW about 95% of the time. Looks like I might actually be setting out to do some PvE stuff when this hits.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Warning to Devs:

Do not implement this in WvW. I spend 90% of my time in WvW, and this would be a terrible change. Yes, certain trait lines are not viable in WvW, but not every trait line is, regardless of if it’s a pet class or not. Some traits are designed for WvW, some aren’t. But here’s the big concern: statistical damage reduction.

What do I mean by this? If you have 5 players standing in an AoE circle, then all the players will take 100% of the damage. Now, lets say those 5 players are pet classes and each has 4 pets out, standing in an AoE cirlcle. Those players now have 80% damage reduction due to the statistical chance of them getting hit. This would make it the most powerful class of classes in the game.

Untill this issue is addressed, pets shouldn’t be buffed for WvW.

Thanks for implementing this for PvE

Easy fix: Pets in AoE circles always get hit (at reduced damage) and pets do not count toward the 5 target maximum affected by the AoE.

I started playing the game super-causally again, and I don’t know when you guys did it, but the improved Necromancer minion AI has made playing a minion build amazingly fun for the first time since launch. They are incredibly responsive in their targeting and re-targeting, and I’ve not seen one instance of them just sitting around watching while I fight. This is just icing on the cake. Thank you!

Finally, minions working as intended as a wall of skeletons.

There would need to be some fine tuning for WvW but, the problem is Anet made a class that relies on it’s pet, there is no option to not use this pet and be on par with the rest of the classes. Now that they seem to be taking steps to correct issues such as this, it’s high time they paid attention to more than PvE. How is your pet getting insta gibbed in PvE any worse then your pet getting insta gibbed in WvW, you’re still missing your class mechanic in the Rangers situation, regardless of what Mode you’re playing.

As far as using pets or minions to soak up damage, just make it so damage prioritizes players first, if there is a lack of players then it prioritizes whatever is in the area, you know kinda like the same code that makes boons prioritize … gasp … players first.

Thank you, Roy, for this change!

Roy, will this affect mesmer’s Continuum Rift in PvE as well? It was dying immediately to AoE so this would help a lot.

TY anet! now please improve minions AI if possible and we will be completely happy!

omg, yes. My mesmer loves you <3 <3 Finally we are good again!

Akyl.8647:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Akyl.8647:

I am worried does this change also include World Vs World. Although I am not a WvW player I can only imagine the consequences if this effect applied to WvW. I can only imagine firestorm hitting minnions doing no damage. Over 100 people using MM necro/reaper and just swarming and winning fights because aoe counts 5 people and ignores the rest.

Um. The second part of your post? The “because aoe counts 5 people and ignores the rest” part? That’s how it is right now. Do you see “over 100 people using MM necro/reaper and just swarming and winning fights” right now? No?
That’s because there is a LOT more aoe abilities in this game than there are minion abilities. Not protecting minions against that aoe death just leaves minions where they are right now: useless in WvW.

I am sincerely worried that aoe attacks will no longer prioritize players and go straight to minions in a large scale battle. Do you like your firestorm to be completely negated when you target a zerg attacking a door? Maybe get some or worst case scenario 0 damage on rams since there may be mersmer, necro, and ranger pets by the gate?. Does that sound like good gameplay?. This is a pressing issue I understand fully PVE it is absolutely fantastic change but then when you start seeing the application in WvW will this functionality stick in WvW or will we get a separate balance patch for it?

Spurnshadow.3678:

Warning to Devs:

Do not implement this in WvW. I spend 90% of my time in WvW, and this would be a terrible change. Yes, certain trait lines are not viable in WvW, but not every trait line is, regardless of if it’s a pet class or not. Some traits are designed for WvW, some aren’t. But here’s the big concern: statistical damage reduction.

this is most definitely a concern. but there is a variety of simple solutions for rangers. (FYI, ranger isn’t a spec. it’s an entire profession, ok?)

for example, they could allow us to stow our pets and keep them stowed whilst in combat. no bonus required, it just allows us to activate the pet as needed without it getting mowed down in the moving zergs. once the pet is summoned, he has to stay out for x amount of seconds before we can swap. he will likely die, and that’s fine. but at least we have more control this way.

the other option, that the poster above me mentioned is to simply change the code and make pets/ai/minions not contribute to the 5 target cap limit. but the former option is probably a lot easier to implement and would make WvW rangers ecstatic.

Akyl.8647:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Akyl.8647:

I am worried does this change also include World Vs World. Although I am not a WvW player I can only imagine the consequences if this effect applied to WvW. I can only imagine firestorm hitting minnions doing no damage. Over 100 people using MM necro/reaper and just swarming and winning fights because aoe counts 5 people and ignores the rest.

Um. The second part of your post? The “because aoe counts 5 people and ignores the rest” part? That’s how it is right now. Do you see “over 100 people using MM necro/reaper and just swarming and winning fights” right now? No?
That’s because there is a LOT more aoe abilities in this game than there are minion abilities. Not protecting minions against that aoe death just leaves minions where they are right now: useless in WvW.

I am sincerely worried that aoe attacks will no longer prioritize players and go straight to minions in a large scale battle. Do you like your firestorm to be completely negated when you target a zerg attacking a door? Maybe get some or worst case scenario 0 damage on rams since there may be mersmer, necro, and ranger pets by the gate?. Does that sound like good gameplay?. This is a pressing issue I understand fully PVE it is absolutely fantastic change but then when you start seeing the application in WvW will this functionality stick in WvW or will we get a separate balance patch for it?

See my response to spurnshadow: they can change this priority to be players-first, we know this because that’s how buffs/boons work.

Additionally, why would you be worried that they would “no longer” prioritize players? Do they prioritize players now? Is there any indication that they would change that?

Thanks so much for this change. It’s an amazing change for pve rangers.

Zenith.7301:

Roy, will this affect mesmer’s Continuum Rift in PvE as well? It was dying immediately to AoE so this would help a lot.

ooh…really good question. hope that wasn’t overlooked

So how is the damage going to be applied during the damage split to phantasmal defender and bulwark gyro? Reduced to 5% after the split, kept at the full 50%, something else?

Durring BWE3 Function Gyro (I’m assuming that it counts as a minion), died instantly to Wyverns fire fields. Will we see Function Gyro survive out there in the new system? Also Turrets… do they count as minions, considering that they are structures?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Safari Tank.6238:

Just to clarify, you mention minions, spirits, and turrets, but this does NOT include Ranger pets, correct?

Ranger pets are included.

This is great.

Anchoku.8142:

What if I want my minions to die?

The PvE change to reduce AoE wiping of minions is generally good, though an alternative I selfishly prefer is to have cast time and respawn cool down cut.

Then you can slot them out because it is a wasted slot.

TJgalon.5012:

Donari.5237:

Sounds like this will fix the mesmer issue with that one boss in Hidden Arcana (the one where you get a shield by killing the right color mini mob so you can enter the death zone to dps the boss).

I just did this boss today with my messar, but I not notice a problem, or do you mean by the fact, my illusions could not harm it due to dieing in the field right away.. Because of that, I mostly focus on the other attacks.

That’s exactly what I mean. It’s not impossible with a mesmer, I soloed it with one on my second or third run through without tweaking my build (I’ve done all the chapters with Thief/Guardian/Mesmer to have a variety of options for achievements), though it certainly took a lot longer than with other professions. But believe me, the forums were on fire for a while with mesmers kvetching about that one fight since most of their damage came from their minions and the minions died in a fraction of a second.

So it’ll be interesting to try that fight with the change in place. If nothing else, it will be a very controlled environment to test the change.

Are.1326:

Durring BWE3 Function Gyro (I’m assuming that it counts as a minion), died instantly to Wyverns fire fields. Will we see Function Gyro survive out there in the new system? Also Turrets… do they count as minions, considering that they are structures?

Concerning turrets, they already answered this somewhere, can’t recall exactly where, but yes it count as well.

Question
What about player minions attacking other player minions. For example my drake uses tailswipe targeted at the enemy ranger, but manages to hit his pet as well. Will the dmg be reduced?

Welcome news, indeed. When the Druid elite was announced as a dedicated healer, it seemed totally illogical to me, that the only class who is required to have a pet (minion) which was responsible for a large percentage of the ranger’s DPS, would need to keep the pet alive as well as 9 other players. Now I’ll be able to concentrate more on my group in a raid, and less on my pets. Thank you Anet!

How will this work for things like the Illusionary Defender or the Shambling Horror. Let’s say you take 2,000 damage. The shambling horror would then take 1,000 damage. However, because it is not the target of the attack would it then instead take 50 damage? Or would it still take 1,000 damage? What if a monster targets you and hits you for 2,000 and cleaves your shambling horror for 2,000 damage? Does your shambling horror take 1,000 from half of you + 100 damage from the cleave or does it take 150 damage?

Also, how do things like Svanir/Cheiftan work in sPvP? Technically, this is PvP so would your minions take regular damage? Or would this be a case of “Everything else” and such the minions take reduced damage from cleave against these two enemies? This is relevant because stronghold and foefire also have enemy AI which can cleave through minions.

@ Simplicity

Damage transfers in this game do what Ive heard called “True Damage” In other rpg games. Namely its damage that ignores any form of mitigation. For example if a ranger casts protect me his pet starts taking 100% of the damage he would have taken BEFORE any damage mitigation effect is taken into account. That includes bark skin for example which would have reduced the dmg the pet takes by 50%. Protection as well does not protect the pet from this damage as far as I can tell after 3 years of running shouts.

So the defender and horror you mentioned will still take full damage from the transfer. They just wont ALSO take x amount of extra damage that attack just happened to throw there way.

I.E. They won’t get double tapped.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to give them a base “dodge” chance? Or would that be too much RNG?

SirDerp.3520:

Wouldn’t it make more sense to give them a base “dodge” chance? Or would that be too much RNG?

That would be pretty rng and largely ineffective. It doesn’t matter if it auto dodges 9 attacks if the 10th one shots it. I have seen other games try it before. It ultimately made the pet users paranoid constantly watching there pets health wondering when there going to have to ressumon it because they honestly don’t know whether or not they need to pull it back.

Question:

Does this include minion vs minion interaction? Since both are essentially npc’s.

Excellent news indeed!

I just wanted to follow-up that I hope this never gets implemented in PvP environments. There are countless times where in a team fight you position yourself to cleave multiple minions or turrets or whatever down, and to have that damage reduced simply because you can only select one of them is awful. If minions are too weak in PvP/WvW, there should be traits that buff them up so that they can be useful.

For PvE, though, this is absolutely great. Thanks for this update.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I just wanted to follow-up that I hope this never gets implemented in PvP environments. There are countless times where in a team fight you position yourself to cleave multiple minions or turrets or whatever down, and to have that damage reduced simply because you can only select one of them is awful. If minions are too weak in PvP/WvW, there should be traits that buff them up so that they can be useful.

For PvE, though, this is absolutely great. Thanks for this update.

Honestly? If pet builds don’t get this in pvp/wvw or atleast a weaker version of it. Then we need atleast the health boost that we get in PvE. At the VERY least. I can’t tell you how many times ive seen my pet just get slaughtered by accidental burn damage. To put it simply. if I wasn’t runnning trooper runes on my shout build for PvP and WvW. Id probably treat my pet the same way alot of other rangers to do. A cc bot whos only purpose is to pop taunt weakness and blind and not as an actual weapon. Im fine with my pet being killable. But it should die to purposeful intent. NOT accidental kitten all that neither party had any control over.

Any particular reason ya’ll went for a flat % damage reduction instead of giving minions .75 second distortion on evade? Rangers already give protection to pets on evade, coding-wise that sounds easy enough to extend.

SongOfDestruction.2984:

Any particular reason ya’ll went for a flat % damage reduction instead of giving minions .75 second distortion on evade? Rangers already give protection to pets on evade, coding-wise that sounds easy enough to extend.

If you have to use your evades to keep your pet alive, then that just creates a different problem.