We said we didn't want the trinity
Hopefully, there will be enough of the players that waxed nostalgic about the joys of tanking or healing that a lot of groups will have options. There night be a big problem with PUG’s, though. One of the issues with PuG’s is wanting to fit something into one’s playtime. If healers/tanks are necessary or are deemed necessary, then there will be waiting, unless there are a kitten-load of them. If wait times are high, there will be some backlash.
As for me, I’d have no problems trying to play a healer, though I’ve never done so in this type of game. I’ve little interest in tanking. What I’m especially not interested in, though, is making and carrying 3-4 sets of gear. If, as I suspect, that turns out to be expected, I doubt I’ll be involved.
And this is exactly my biggest concern about this. I like GW2 because there is no hard trinity and making a group is as simple as clicking a few buttons. If groups will have to have a certain composition, GW2 will become the same generic MMO as most others.
You are speaking about team spirit, but at the end it’s still the same – someone is being forced into playing the healer.
all games force people into the game paradigm, it’s the nature of games. otherwise its just a sandbox and balance/difficulty is irrelevant anyway.
10 people raids require some strategy, that means, everybody must know what to do. Or else is going to be 10 people gangs… lol
I also believe the UI needs lots of changes, not only for the commanders.. But for all the required roles.
those who heal also need a versatile UI
(edited by Oyranos.9750)
You are speaking about team spirit, but at the end it’s still the same – someone is being forced into playing the healer.
all games force people into the game paradigm, it’s the nature of games. otherwise its just a sandbox and balance/difficulty is irrelevant anyway.
We’re speaking about a change to this paradigm 3 years after launch, however, when we can safely assume most people that still play are okay with no forced roles, and most people that were really into roles like healer and tank left long ago.
It’s not about forcing people into a certain paradigm. It’s about forcing people into a paradigm they dislike.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
or some post by A-Net dev specifically stated that the whole “zerker meta” is a result of an overall design flaw within the game.
the design flaw is that zerker builds can evade damage with skilled use of dodge roll, not lack of trinity
The ability to use well-timed dodges is only part of the issue. No targeted heal, and no aggro mechanic is another, which to many is an aspect of Anet’s soft trinity: Damage, Support, Control. Another poster claims that zerk stackers only faceroll and press skill one, while another wants DPS-ers to hybrid and support their parties with boons and outgoing control, as if they did not already do this.
The zerk/stack is presently the optimal way to run dungeons and fractals because of the way dungeons and fractals are designed. You want to support:heal/share boons/cleanse conditions but you don’t want to stack? Well… too bad, because your radius for sharing beneficial effects with your party members is 600m, with a few outliers like timewarp or healing spring.
Guardian virtues: 600 m.
Spotter: 600 m.
blast effects go out from the player’s location (and blast the nearest field in proximity to player position) 360 m – so in order to share might, darkness, condition cleanse, heals from water fields you need to be withing 360 m of your party member who is blasting, while being careful to drop your blinding and damaging fields that you don’t want blasted on the enemy but away from the field you DO want blasted.
If my party is all over the place, my engineer/guardian cannot protect them from projectiles with smoke screen/wall of reflect. Having the party in close quarters, in high damage gear, with protection and regeneration and the ability to have two people resurrecting and two people continuing damage and buffs if someone goes down is better than having two people doing a lot less damage to “support” (I still have not figured out how they are supposed to do this without stacking.) My party has a rotation of reflect and boons for high level fractals so that we can maximize our damage without dying.
I’m just pointing out here that players who run efficiently do NOT just stack and press skill 1- they have team builds that are set up to run efficiently and positioning that is set up that way BECAUSE of how the game is designed.
Aside from the things I mentioned above:
Have you ever tried to run a dungeon that requires breaking objects or doors with a dedicated tank/healer in the group or while running an all condition-dealing team? I have. It was not as bad in the group with 3 power builds but still took almost twice as long as normal, and in the group with all condition builds, it took longer to break down the doors in the ascalon fractal than all of the fights in the entire fractal put together. (Not to mention the boiling oil, arrow carts and ballistas.)
My group occasionally does experimental runs like this. Unless they change how objects are damaged: make all objects dealt the same amount of damage regardless of weapon/stats… probably by locking out all skills, or by giving the player a blowtorch, ram or other special object to use when destroying objects.
I don’t know if they’re really going to change the design enough to make much of a change in the way people play. From what I have seen and heard so far, I think probably not. If you’re interested in getting into dungeons and fractals but have a hard time with playing in berserker gear, I recommend trying these things to help make your circumstances easier:
Ask around your guild for like-minded players or find a guild that has them. Make your own LFG, and use gear with more toughness/vitality on it, then try slowly changing it out for berserker until you’re used to it. There is no shame in asking someone to teach you the content and letting them know that you don’t pick it up easily.
Finding a group that’s a good fit will make this kind of content fun. Playing in a progression oriented guild when you know you can’t keep up will not be fun for anyone involved. I play difficult content regularly with a casual, easy-going group of people, across multiple games- we have a lot of fun.
(edited by Dovienya.6597)
Tanking’s nothing new, even if it hasn’t been seen in a long time. Veteran players will probably remember “Anchor Guardians” as being the meta at one time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWfgaA_MJw0
And with healing, the prevalence of healing skills on all players make it so that you don’t necessarily need 1 dedicated healer, even if you can run a group where everyone runs with minimal healing/defense except for 1 player who focused on it entirely.
It’s like people think that Healing Power never existed before Druid. Do you guys realize that they’ve always had this stat that was for all intents and purposes completely useless? I mean, are all of you anti-trinityers that content with letting an entire stat like that remain useless, or would you, like a lot of us, rather see it utilized properly. I mean why even have the stat, then.
I don’t for a second believe that we are moving towards a trinity. I believe they are finally making builds that can utilize all of the different stats that have been available from the start. In this case Druid seems to stand above the rest in terms of using this stat.
This is a good thing as it is a step away from the zerk meta that so many seem to be desperately trying to keep.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s like people think that Healing Power never existed before Druid. Do you guys realize that they’ve always had this stat that was for all intents and purposes completely useless? I mean, are all of you anti-trinityers that content with letting an entire stat like that remain useless, or would you, like a lot of us, rather see it utilized properly. I mean why even have the stat, then.
I don’t for a second believe that we are moving towards a trinity. I believe they are finally making builds that can utilize all of the different stats that have been available from the start. In this case Druid seems to stand above the rest in terms of using this stat.
This is a good thing as it is a step away from the zerk meta that so many seem to be desperately trying to keep.
As I’ve said before, as long as a healer isn’t REQUIRED to beat a raid, then it is fine. If there needs to be a dedicated healer, then it is a complete fail.
As for the zerker meta, two thoughts.
First zerker is the highest skill cap build since there is no defense built into the stats. The problem is that ANET needs to fix “stack” areas so that people actually need to fight. All zerker teams wouldn’t be viable if they fixed that.
That leads to the second thought which is that a more varied comp is a good thing. I’d like to see some people run zerk, some run condi, some run nomad, etc. The trick is ensuring that a very specific group set up isn’t required to beat the raid.