NSPride <3
What really disappoints me.
Do you know what ‘challenge’ means? You cant just use the word however you want.
Challenge:
1.
a call or summons to engage in any contest, as of skill, strength, etc.
2.
something that by its nature or character serves as a call to battle, contest, special effort, etc.:
Space exploration offers a challenge to humankind.
3.
a call to fight, as a battle, a duel, etc.
4.
a demand to explain, justify, etc.:
a challenge to the treasurer to itemize expenditures.
5.
difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged inWhat part of time gating and grinds meets the definition of ‘challenge’. Its like calling a grind to max lvl a ‘challenge’. Its not.
One of the worst aspects of mmos to me has always been ‘get to cap, thats when the fun begins’. GW2 was always different to me.
Now its not.
Have you taken the time to actually listen to the NPCs, look at the gorgeous environments, explore the area and do new events? You don’t need to grind you’ll get all you need by doing these things – just look at it as an experience instead of trying to race to some imaginary finish line.
I leveled up my characters in wvw. Id have to play for how long to simply unlock a new spec tree that I can use effectively? Now repeat for all my characters.
I have a job already.
And none of that is a ‘challenege’.
Ive never cared much for pve, but now its pretty much mandatory.
And exploration? You mean the thing that is now locked behind pointless grinds? You could run to orr if you wanted to at lvl 1 in the day. You could do all the jumping puzzles…. etc…
See I think thats your problem, you’ve literally grinded your way to level 80 with the Karma train and lost perspective on what the game is, you just want to not go back to that horrible Karma train (and I don’t blame you).
But seriously the new areas are great and engaing (the mob design is really good) and this is coming from someone who primarily PvPs. i’m sure you’ll find it fun if you give it a chance.
See I think thats your problem, you’ve literally grinded your way to level 80 with the Karma train and lost perspective on what the game is, you just want to not go back to that horrible Karma train (and I don’t blame you).
But seriously the new areas are great and engaing (the mob design is really good) and this is coming from someone who primarily PvPs. i’m sure you’ll find it fun if you give it a chance.
What karma train? Eotm? I set foot in that map once or twice and never looked back.
Most of my wvw was small scale. I didnt do what was the best xp, I did what was most fun. I defended and always preferred small groups or solo roaming.
I agree the new areas are really cool…… I would love to experience them with the elites…. I am not asking for them to be automatically unlocked. I am asking that the elite traitline and the elite utility cost the same as a normal profession traitline and normal profession utility. The points should also not have to be bought off of one huge upgrade wheel. Elite traitline should have its own upgrade wheel and the elite utilities should have their own upgrade wheel. This is only fair seeing that “elite” specs are not elite in comparison with regular professions.
Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem.
Just because you think you understand it doesn’t mean there is a problem.
Well there definite is a problem. The problem is that small groups of people always think their demographic is larger than it is in the overall scheme of things. Therefore they believe the changes they want made to the game make sense from a development perspective.
It’s like a small group of people who are so sure of their own desires, they think everyone must want them. It happens all the time in politics, in games, everywhere.
That’s the real problem here. Human nature.
WvW players who don’t want to engage in the rest of the game are only a very small percentage of the population…they simply don’t believe it.
The expansion is incredibly awesomely overwhelmingly fantastic.
What disappoints me is the number of posts on this forum, claiming exactly the opposite. These wonderful devs poured their heart and soul into this rich experience, and you’re all kittening on it because there is the slightest bit of challenge.
No one on here is asking “How do I do this?” It’s all “I can’t do this.”
Put your fingers to use learning how to rise to the challenge, instead of demonstrating your stereotypical Internet rage.
You might just find not only this game, but life, more enjoyable.
It’s too easy to follow the herd. There’s no value in being that kind of person.
Did you by any chance read that forum topic with somewhere near 2k responses? Players know how to do it, and that is what is disappointing them: you have to grind, period.
People want to play their elite specs, not grind for days/weeks/months on end on specs they have played for the last three years to unlock them.
Then play the kitten game. I’m already fully Berserkered out after two days of game time. It’s not hard if you’re not lazy. Stop whining and go play a single player game then.
I have played the game, been EOTM farming, 20 hours and only got 75 hero points, and guess what, it was a grind, I tried, and I mean tried to do the new PVE zone but after already hating PVE and then falling off the edge, and not knowing where anything is I rage left that zone.
Yes you have to learn the zone. You have to learn where to go. You gave up too fast. No one’s fault but yours.
Everyone is so used to following a star in other games to get a place to talk to an NPC to get a wall of text to follow an arrow to another star, they forgot how to explore, how to think, how to solve puzzles.
The new zone isn’t that hard to figure out and it doesnt’ take that long to figure out, but if you give up at the first sign of trouble, there’s not much I can tell you.
It’s much more fun to actually learn the zone.
You don’t understand, I DO NOT want to play that zone, I don’t do open world PVE, and that hasn’t changed. I do PVP, WVW and fractals almost exclusively. I hate map completion nonsense and don’t want to grind through it even once, and to do it for each character? That is nonsense.
Why don’t you just do WvW for your hero points then?
And end up with my first spec next year at this time? It’s around 200 level ups per character… now multiplied by 10 puts me at 2k wvw rank ups for full specialization unlocks. That is a problem.
Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem.
Just because you think you understand it doesn’t mean there is a problem.
Well there definite is a problem. The problem is that small groups of people always think their demographic is larger than it is in the overall scheme of things. Therefore they believe the changes they want made to the game make sense from a development perspective.
It’s like a small group of people who are so sure of their own desires, they think everyone must want them. It happens all the time in politics, in games, everywhere.
That’s the real problem here. Human nature.
WvW players who don’t want to engage in the rest of the game are only a very small percentage of the population…they simply don’t believe it.
They werent penalised for it before. Now they are.
I don’t understand why people are upset either, I got my elite spec fully unlocked early Sunday and didn’t start playing until late Friday evening and had all the Masteries required for story on Saturday.
Its literally opening weekend and people are saying because they didn’t get something instantly its suddenly a “grind.” Everything I did to get my Masteries and Elite Spec was new content – no repetition of events or areas – just exploring and the Story.
The expansion is beautiful, the mobs are fun to fight, the maps are huge with so mmany hidden fun bits, the meta events are well designed and the story was pretty good too. Clearly a lot of work has gone into it and people are too busy obsessing over not having access to a GM trait instantly that they are missing the fun.
If this is how people react to all the work put in I hate to imagine how the devs are feeling – because it isn’t a fair representation of what we got… Mob mentality or just too much hand holding in the past? And people who say “you only are having fun because you played the game more” are basicly saying “you have fun the more you play” (‘less is more’ only works for makeup).
Oh look, another one who thinks the problem is that people didn’t get insta access to elite specs. Seriously can you read the complaints before posting first?
Virtually every complaint I have read regarding elite spec cost of 400 pts is complaining about the steepness of it and the need for it to be reduced, NOT ELIMINATED but reduced so that people can obtain then in reasonable time (especially those of us, and there are many, who dont PVE)
hell i even threw in some napkin maths 4 or 5 posts above yours to give some idea of the issue and still you couldn’t understand it…..
Yes, but you’re ignoring the fast that many MANY people have world complete and those people already have over 200 points. I was halfway to my elite specialization on five characters.
If they lowered the cost significantly I’d have had it in a day. And that’s bad for the game, not good for the game.
Because there needs to be some feeling of progression. It’s one of the biggest complaints about this game prior to the patch.
Anet doesn’t make decisions about a few people. They make decisions about the game as a whole.
I’m not sure if you’re actually serious when you say letting people play (not having elite specs locked behind an absurd grind) the way they want to play is bad for the game. Because that used to be Anets motto.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.
That is what Vayne seems to think.
Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.
It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.
But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.
I’m okay with that.
It’s not a problem for Vayne, so it shouldn’t be a problem for others.
When a change is made to this game that I don’t like, I try to look at the overall picture, because it’s NEVER just about me. I don’t complain about what I don’t like if I can see the reason things have been done. Many changes have inconvenienced me. I see why they were done and I move on.
There are many people who already have over 200 skill points on their characters. The game needed both account and character progression. Masteries are account progression,. elite specializtaions are charater progression.
You don’t have to like it, but it’s unlikely to change, because they’re more benefit to the game by leaving it this way than changing it.
I’m not saying it’s about me. You are.
Except now the fact that there are legitimate problems it seems to be “JUST about you” many players are left in the dust and its just unacceptable and most suggestions are very reasonable. People don’t want a grind, that isn’t what this game is about and it should not be about.
You got me wrong, mate. I have MORE characters than you. 31 80s. I simply see why the decision was made. It’s NOT all about me.
So who is it about then, since the design must not have been about players like me, and if its not about players on the other end of the spectrum like you, WHO EXACTLY is this expansion catered towards. It definitely isn’t the casual playerbase of GW2, it isn’t the WvW crowd, it isn’t even about many in PVE who wanted to play the new specs through the new area.
That leaves A-net and the hardcore grinding group. If those are the people this game is about then it’s not the great game that it had been before release.
And yes it should be somewhat about me, seeing as I paid money for it.
You’re simplifying the situation. Let’s say you LOVE loud music and live in an aparttment building. Is it reasonable to let you play loud music, if everyone else gets inconvenience? What about if only 70% of the people were inconvenienced?
That’s the issue here. Most people don’t even know about traits or specs. Most people log in, kill some stuff and log off. That’s most people. Most players don’t follow a meta. Most players probably don’t know the 4 down skill rezzes you.
So most players are less likely to be inconvenienced by this anyway. The people in your group are WvWers who don’t like anything but WvW. This isn’t a huge group of people. We’ve been told by the devs it’s a small group. We know that.
Now people SAY they don’t like grind, but people also say they want stuff to work for. Which group does Anet support. What about people who say they don’t like grind and leave the game because they’re nothing to do? Plenty of those.
There’s far more going on here than you and me.
So its fine if you inconvenience my play style, when I have offered suggestions in other posts on how to fix the problem of the hero point grind for people that don’t want to do the PVE?
It’s like your arguing against yourself and proving yourself wrong every time you try to debate with someone.
The thing is, we want to play elite specs, no we don’t need them on a silver platter, but we need to enjoy getting them, its a game after all. And seeing as both of the options a devoid of enjoyment for many players and must be repeated multiple times, this inconveniences a larger number of players than you and the foolish nay sayers can comprehend.
You’re demonstrating stereotypical white knight rhetoric……
Whaaat? He doesn’t play a guardian.
That said, this happens every time there is an update to the game. I’m sad to see that it has turned into such a battle, which spills out into the non-GW2 community and makes us all look bad. ALL of us.
2,000+ message threads by people who get into circle arguments doesn’t make the thread right.
Go bloody play, and come back to me about grind when you’ve cross the 7000 hour line.
done.
That said, this happens every time there is an update to the game. I’m sad to see that it has turned into such a battle, which spills out into the non-GW2 community and makes us all look bad. ALL of us.
2,000+ message threads by people who get into circle arguments doesn’t make the thread right.
Go bloody play, and come back to me about grind when you’ve cross the 7000 hour line.
done.
The thing is this, GW2 may not be grindy but alot of players really really want Elite Spec’s and that is why they bought HoT. They wanted to experience the world with their new spec as if it where a new class and I can understand this but it is not a new class it is a new Level Cap increase but in a better way. Some starts to Grind EOTM to get the full Elite Spec so they can play with it on the new maps and some just thinks that farming HP’s in EOTM is faster and more entertaining then playing the usuall PvE content (Now I am not saying anything about those who actually plays WvW for WvW enjoyment, those just as PvE’ers will get their HP while enjoying the game).
GW2: HoT is no more farm/grind than GW2 Core is and I play and enjoy the PvE content together with my guild and we havent even gone through Verdant Brink yet and I already have all needed Masteries to get to all HP’s in VB, I havent farmed or Grinded I have just explored the maps and done Event’s and followed the event chains. I use boosters though becouse I have over 80 of them in my bank and finnaly I have a use for them. I am playing a Scrapper at 65.5% and it is a blast.
I hope something will be done about this but I hope not to much becouse I like to progress my scrapper and not just unlock it all in one go.
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Serious question here: Anet got rid of guard killers and defense against guards in WvW because it was unfair to people who were just starting in WvW. Will there be an unfair advantage in WvW when people who play more hours are able to get their Elite Specializations before others?
I played the week-end, all week-end (maybe a total of 12 hours) and never did I end up repeating events over and over. I still haven’t made it to the last zone, but I’m on my way. I figure that by the time I get there, I’ll have unlocked what I need for the next part of the personal story. I even made a mistake and trained a mastery I didn’t want to level 2 before gliding. I was a little frustrated, but I’m already almost done gliding level 2.
My daredevil is only a short while away from getting the new dodges, and I can’t wait. I hate to say this, but if you don’t like the game that’s that, but I felt this expansion was a breath of fresh air for this game. I really am enjoying it.
This reminds me of people who considered leveling to 80 as a grind, if though I never once grinded and only did activities I love and have multiple 80s. (mostly though pvp fun) This game is so anti-grind, but it allows those who love to grind the option. In two months, I’ll have progressed as far as someone who grinded like a mad man for a week. But they will hit a plateau way ahead of me, but they won’t be any stronger than me. The game is still casual, but the enemies and challenges are more complex and interesting. I went back to the old zones and was having a lot of fun rolling over enemies. Honestly, now this game offers many playstyles, its great. HoT is for a challenge like an old rpg. If you don’t enjoy RPG’s then you probably won’t like this expansion. It reminds a bit of portal to be honest.
A few last things, as I wanted to point out some frustrations so far:
-Some classes still are lacking in many ways (underutilized utility skills and traits)
-The new action camera is too buggy to make good use of
-There should be an alternative to waypoints in these zones. It doesn’t make sense to have a lot of waypoints with Mordremoth lingering. So realistically, it would be fun to have another transport system. I enjoy gliding and bouncing mushrooms, but when I want to cross a map, they should’ve added something interesting using the lore of one of the newly encountered races. It just feels weird to use waypoints here, and then make them sparse.
-Lastly, pact soldiers carrying supplies shouldn’t die if they reach a supply camp that has been overrun. I get the idea, but as the pc, we have rallied whole armies to fight, and we couldn’t keep one soldier from dying of exhaustion. It seems out of place. Give us the option to carry survivors with our glider and rescue them.
My 2 cents.
I hope people are enjoying the expansion as much as I am. I was surprised that I wasn’t disappointed by this expac, since my hopes were so high. It has been great fun for me.