Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

(edited by Djinn.9245)

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

Being old, I can remember the old days of lots of stuff including computers and computer science. In the old days UI’s were heavily modal. Designers designed a path to each desired endpoint (screen you actually wanted to get to). If you wanted to get somewhere you followed the designer’s path.

People really didn’t like this because it’s not the way human’s work. It’s much more natural to put down one thing and pick up another rather than follow ten steps to get to the next task.

Games are similar. You can have play it your way or you can have play it the designers way where you follow tracks step-wise in order to get something you actually want. There are lots of problems with the mastery system. The problems start in that you need the results of system in order to play to get the results. What?

I think it can be simplified and said that play is too modal. It follows too much a game designer’s notion of what play looks like. The old Anet actually got this (play it your way), but something happened in the early months after release and they forgot everything they knew.

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Posted by: Lite Ning Strike.5203

Lite Ning Strike.5203

Djinn.9245 “Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better”

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.[/quote]

I agree with you 100% I hate the chase for Masteries in their current state, it takes the fun out of the game. I also dislike the vertical caves in HoT. A game should not be made so difficult you have to rely on Videos or Manuals to resolve.

And for the stupid mini games they insert and require us to do to obtain Mastery Points in ludicrous. I would prefer the Masteries to all be open world content obtainable and nothing gated behind events.

The First and Only Blaq Sheep

(edited by Lite Ning Strike.5203)

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

So, we have a problem with progression. We’ve noted that vertical progression goes nowhere and that’s why it’s called a treadmill. You get on and off at the same place. You can have horizontal progression with cosmetic goals, achievements, or something like skill progression which is what our mastery system is. It’s actually brilliant in that it’s a choice for horizontal and not vertical progression.

However, we’ve noted that, currently, it’s too modal. It follows too closely some designer’s notion of play. The first important question is what should drive the system. That is, you have something that makes some marker “progress” and that’s the question, what makes the system go.

I would say that the safest thing to make the system go would be something that happens naturally whenever we decide to play in whatever way we decide to play. We already have something that accumulates no matter what we do (besides the absence of chat XP). Yes, that’s it, it’s XP. I would argue if you want play it your way, XP has got to be what makes the system go.

Now, you have something that moves the progress bar and you just need to be able to set player goals flexibly.

Now, of course, there can be all kinds of goals that could require elements beyond XP (like location for instance). XP just makes the system go.

The question underlying all this is around a design choice. Is it valuable to value play it your way? If so, how do we make design decisions to create and support it.

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Posted by: particlepinata.9865

particlepinata.9865

I agree with you op. Hot was also not my cup of tea, too walled of, to restrictive, to much running in circles with events, too much repetitiveness etc. It felt like a train going in circles endlessly. Stuck in a maze.
The new Bloodstone Fen map is in my opinion one if not the best of the gw 2 maps. It offers great freedom in movement, exploring, events etc. It offers the freedom of the old maps (also with events) with the enhanced vertical design of the new maps, but now without walls/borders.
Finally, to certain regular posters over here i like to say: Respect others opinions. Does not matter if its your opinion or not. What’s the use of this forum if different opinions/feedback are not allowed?

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

Maybe someone can answer this but is there a correlation between how much %xp you gain during masteries and which level of mastery you’re trying to reach in a tier and does it matter in which zone you do events and such?

I gain between 1-3% on the xp bar per event currently and I can’t really see a clear pattern as to why it’s 1,2 or 3%.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I can only hope the next expansion expels the current mastery system. It is not fun at all..

I doubt it will happen. There aren’t enough people who don’t like it for it to change. They may change how you get mastery points for it, but they won’t change the system.

Yes, I would like to see gaining mastery points be more doable in some way. Like buying them or having them come with xp. I have no problem with the current xp requirements (although like others have said I would like them to be more logical if possible) but a lot of people (including me) are winding up not being able to progress in masteries simply because we ran into a brick wall with getting MPs. Platformer adventures are not why I play GW2. At one point I ran into an annoyance with the story, sure I could look up how to solve the problem but that would defeat the point of being surprised by it.

I’m pretty sure there are mastery points you can get that you’re simply ignoring or don’t realize you can get.

And we’ve always had stuff in the game like Tribulation Rift and the Great Wall in Diessa with hero points on top of them. They’re jumping puzzles you need to finish zones. The Vizier’s Tower too.

How did you get them? Well, I know a lot of people that just took a portal.

There are plenty of mastery points available that you can get if you want. You might need some help with some of them. But there are people in my guild who are casual as hell who have maxed out all their mastery points. And they didn’t get them through doing any adventures that were hard.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

Actually yes, they were put in the game to provide progression, because Anet has said they were put in the game. If they were going to force you to do everything, you wouldn’t be able to skip getting gold on most of the adventures. There’s be no extra points more than you needed. But as it stands now, there are plenty of extra points.

As an example, those who don’t raid, don’t need to raid to get the raid mastery points…because they’re just for raids and don’t affect any other area of the game.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Mastries are better than just leveling.

There. I said it.

Just gaining piles of XP is boring, as is having a boatload of “options” with no utility (I’m looking at you core game skill point challenges)

Masteries encourage doing a wide range of activities, specific activities, and actively drive you to achieve new and different things in order to progress, rather that making you rely on RNG drops for better gear or letting you simply farm the easiest, laziest path to progression.

Do people rightly hate the idea of tying masteries to adventures? Yes. Adventures are a good idea (minigames) that was overused (too much of the mastry system is locked behind content that doesn’t use your character at all) but the Mastry system as a whole is FAR better than other methods of advancement we could have been forced in to.

  • There are enough mastry points you can skip the few you find seriously onerous.
  • You can not simply farm and complete your progression
  • SIX MONTHS past the release of HoT I’m still encouraged and rewarded for seeking out and completing new types of content
  • The core mastries required for navigation are quick and easy, but the extended mastries feel rewarding and useful when you level them.

I think Anet knows that Adventures were a flop. That’s why there’s no new adventure in Bloodstone Fen. However, the overall design of Bloodstone Fen proves how well the mastry design works. Should you walk in to bloodstone fen with not much in the way of gliding, it’s going to be rough. That’s on purpose. You’re walking in to an area above your progression status. This is a far better way to handle it than just one shotting you with mobs because you didn’t grind out enough XP for three more character levels, or trash your valuable Pre-HoT gear for some new dirt common stuff.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Guild Wars 2 has always had attrition mechanics. If you don’t believe it try leveling a new character in an area 10 levels above your level. Aggro becomes much greater. Things will cross much bigger areas to attack you. So you had to level first to get to the next area.

This isn’t much different. Can you run around without updraft use? Sure. But while you’re running around, you should be doing events and leveling it. It’s not that hard. It doesn’t take that long.

I think many people are trying their hardest to level masteries with the least amount of efficiency to try to prove some kind of point.

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Posted by: Squee Squashington.5189

Squee Squashington.5189

Horizontal progression is the illusion of progression, people who support it are a large part of the reason this game is not towering over others at its full potential.

That said, gaining experience for masteries was not what was most annoying, it was acquiring the points to be able to purchase each tier. Sure at first you’re able to unlock the early tiers just by playing through the expansion but eventually it becomes this grindy egg hunt, forcing you to play aspects that you really don’t care for. People justify it by saying, “Well you only have to do it once.”

This game was founded with the principle of “you can play the way you want” and it was said that this expansion was not going to be grindy..

Fool me twice..

Legendary Defender of Casuals

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

I’ll reiterate what I say in every “hot is too hard” thread.. more than happy to show anyone around, as are other people who are also in this thread.
As for Masteries.. they are what they are. You play the game, you get XP. You need Masteries to unlock the next level and then you need some more XP.
I can’t get XP for you but I’d be happy to help people get MPs where another person helping would be useful.

Beetle Feast for instance is a simple gold if all the mobs are dead. All the mobs are dead? How are you supposed to do that? Why do I say these things? You are casual and don’t spend 12 hours playing a game! Relax.. I’m saying I’ll go ahead killing stuff.. you just run round pressing 1.

Drone Racer – easy gold. But can be hard to get to, there are pocket raptors and stuff! I’ll show you where it is and even kill some raptors if required.

I’ll also add that watching it done (videos like dulfy) and having the map open on a separate device (phone, tablet, different tab) helps. Joining a guild helps. Asking for help in mapchat helps. Frustration is horrible and for things like MPs where you just need to do them once.. grit your teeth and get them done. Happy to help people do that.

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

Actually yes, they were put in the game to provide progression, because Anet has said they were put in the game. If they were going to force you to do everything, you wouldn’t be able to skip getting gold on most of the adventures. There’s be no extra points more than you needed. But as it stands now, there are plenty of extra points.

As an example, those who don’t raid, don’t need to raid to get the raid mastery points…because they’re just for raids and don’t affect any other area of the game.

There are no “extra points” – all points require playing specific types of content. I play GW2 for the RPG elements. I don’t want to play mini-games (Adventures). I play almost exclusively PvE, that is my chosen form of play. But to cap Masteries I must play other modes of play that I don’t enjoy. And if I don’t cap Masteries I get no more XP at all – ever.

I play games for enjoyment – why should I play modes that I don’t like? This is an on-rails gaming experience that I detest.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

Actually yes, they were put in the game to provide progression, because Anet has said they were put in the game. If they were going to force you to do everything, you wouldn’t be able to skip getting gold on most of the adventures. There’s be no extra points more than you needed. But as it stands now, there are plenty of extra points.

As an example, those who don’t raid, don’t need to raid to get the raid mastery points…because they’re just for raids and don’t affect any other area of the game.

There are no “extra points” – all points require playing specific types of content. I play GW2 for the RPG elements. I don’t want to play mini-games (Adventures). I play almost exclusively PvE, that is my chosen form of play. But to cap Masteries I must play other modes of play that I don’t enjoy. And if I don’t cap Masteries I get no more XP at all – ever.

I play games for enjoyment – why should I play modes that I don’t like? This is an on-rails gaming experience that I detest.

I like standing in Lion’s Arch. Therefore everything in the game to progress should be eligible by me standing in Lion’s Arch. Obviously an exaagerated example. There have always been things in this game you need to do certain things to get.

You do NOT need to any content unless you want those specific masteries. If you don’t, you don’t have to do that content.

For example, the story requires only a handful of mastery points. The experience to train those mastery points can be gotten from either dynamic events or killing mobs, or just doing adventures and taking your time, or raiding. All of those things will fill your experience bar. In theory if you wanted to get it just gathering, you could, It would just take a longer time.

There are further masteries that you don’t need, but you want. Those are fair game to “charge” more for.

But looking at HoT masteries, I really only see needing gliding, updraft use, bouncing mushrooms, exalted lore, nuhoch stuff up through wallows and ancient magic. I’m counting 10 points you pretty much “need”.

It’s very very easy to get 10 easy points. It barely requires any effort at all. Almost no effort if you choose the easiest points. I mean one point you get anyway just for doing the personal story that unlocks masteries, so you need another 9 more. Several of those are just communes in the open world. You can reach at least three of them with just basic gliding, which you already have the point for.

This commentary about having to play all these things I don’t want to is just people looking for an excuse to complain.

You only have to play them if you want a very specific reward, like unlimited gliding. Do you need it to play the game? Nope, you don’t. But if you want it, you can get it.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

Actually yes, they were put in the game to provide progression, because Anet has said they were put in the game. If they were going to force you to do everything, you wouldn’t be able to skip getting gold on most of the adventures. There’s be no extra points more than you needed. But as it stands now, there are plenty of extra points.

As an example, those who don’t raid, don’t need to raid to get the raid mastery points…because they’re just for raids and don’t affect any other area of the game.

There are no “extra points” – all points require playing specific types of content. I play GW2 for the RPG elements. I don’t want to play mini-games (Adventures). I play almost exclusively PvE, that is my chosen form of play. But to cap Masteries I must play other modes of play that I don’t enjoy. And if I don’t cap Masteries I get no more XP at all – ever.

I play games for enjoyment – why should I play modes that I don’t like? This is an on-rails gaming experience that I detest.

I like standing in Lion’s Arch. Therefore everything in the game to progress should be eligible by me standing in Lion’s Arch.

I will never again bother to respond to any of your posts. Please refrain from responding to mine in the future.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Because we didn’t want vertical progression and this is a form of horizontal progression. It’s a tried to true thing that has worked in other games, and though you may not like it, some people do. And some don’t know if they like it or not because they don’t really think about it deeply.

You take away progression from an MMO and you lose a percentage of the playerbase. But this fan base is dead set against vertical progression or at least a very verbal segment of it is (including me). This was the compromise.

Masteries were not necessary to give progression, they were chosen. And their form of implementation by forcing players to do all play modes whether they enjoy them or not (or don’t get many Masteries) is a terrible decision. Giving players choice of how they want to spend their entertainment time is always better.

Actually yes, they were put in the game to provide progression, because Anet has said they were put in the game. If they were going to force you to do everything, you wouldn’t be able to skip getting gold on most of the adventures. There’s be no extra points more than you needed. But as it stands now, there are plenty of extra points.

As an example, those who don’t raid, don’t need to raid to get the raid mastery points…because they’re just for raids and don’t affect any other area of the game.

There are no “extra points” – all points require playing specific types of content. I play GW2 for the RPG elements. I don’t want to play mini-games (Adventures). I play almost exclusively PvE, that is my chosen form of play. But to cap Masteries I must play other modes of play that I don’t enjoy. And if I don’t cap Masteries I get no more XP at all – ever.

I play games for enjoyment – why should I play modes that I don’t like? This is an on-rails gaming experience that I detest.

I like standing in Lion’s Arch. Therefore everything in the game to progress should be eligible by me standing in Lion’s Arch.

I will never again bother to respond to any of your posts. Please refrain from responding to mine in the future.

As much as I’d like to accomodate you, I seriously doubt I’ll remember your name long enough to not respond in the future.

As I said, I deliberately exaagerated that to make a point, but the core point of my post is still correct. You need about 10 mastery points in HOT and you don’t have to do specific content to get any of those.

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

Until last week I was pretty comfortable with not maxing the masteries. I have all that I need to play the game. Then the XP bar change was made. Even though I don’t really need those extra spirit shards I now feel to be wasting XP, even though I was already wasting XP before the change. It’s compounded by those new event rewards that give a whole chunk of XP instantly.

I actually like the mastery system but I dislike mini-games and now I’m feeling pressure to go and do them. So I have not lost anything but it feels like I have!

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Until last week I was pretty comfortable with not maxing the masteries. I have all that I need to play the game. Then the XP bar change was made. Even though I don’t really need those extra spirit shards I now feel to be wasting XP, even though I was already wasting XP before the change. It’s compounded by those new event rewards that give a whole chunk of XP instantly.

I actually like the mastery system but I dislike mini-games and now I’m feeling pressure to go and do them. So I have not lost anything but it feels like I have!

You may not need those Spirit Shards now, but what if they add things you can buy with them that you actually want? Then you might wish that you had been getting them instead of just losing the XP.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Until last week I was pretty comfortable with not maxing the masteries. I have all that I need to play the game. Then the XP bar change was made. Even though I don’t really need those extra spirit shards I now feel to be wasting XP, even though I was already wasting XP before the change. It’s compounded by those new event rewards that give a whole chunk of XP instantly.

I actually like the mastery system but I dislike mini-games and now I’m feeling pressure to go and do them. So I have not lost anything but it feels like I have!

I agree with you on this. I think it’s a mistake to make people do certain games to get their spirit shards. But keep in mind, even if you do the minigames, it won’t matter if you don’t kill a raid boss too.

There should be a way to toggle experience to a track that gives you spirit shards instead of leveling masteries. That would solve the problem.

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

From what people have said it’s fairly easy to get the raid boss kill you need to unlock the mastery and then you just need some Xp and MPs like with any track.
I haven’t done it and it may well be that my idea of fairly easy and theirs (and yours) differs wildly but I’m pretty sure at this point it’s another suck it up and get it done exercise, who knows I may love the raid experience.

As for the idea you may suddenly need spirit shards.. well maybe you will. And then maybe you’ll have to kill a raid boss. Or there will be a track. /shrug Or maybe you won’t. There’s far too much hysteria about stuff people don’t want to do.

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

From what people have said it’s fairly easy to get the raid boss kill you need to unlock the mastery and then you just need some Xp and MPs like with any track.
I haven’t done it and it may well be that my idea of fairly easy and theirs (and yours) differs wildly but I’m pretty sure at this point it’s another suck it up and get it done exercise, who knows I may love the raid experience.

As for the idea you may suddenly need spirit shards.. well maybe you will. And then maybe you’ll have to kill a raid boss. Or there will be a track. /shrug Or maybe you won’t. There’s far too much hysteria about stuff people don’t want to do.

Not sure if I’d call it hysteria but there is one part in that reaction I do understand. An MMO tends to have to cater to a wider range of players to be viable. People like different things and have different goals within a given MMO. So it’s good that a game can offer various types of activities. So far, nothing strange going on.

What makes this a little different is that your experience bar is replaced by the mastery bar at level 80 unless you completed all masteries. That means that game elements that you do not enjoy or wish to stay away from now actually infringe on your general xp bar.

The point that something is easy is actually besides the point. Some people just wanna do their thing and not worry about grouping up with people and all that. Sure, there are workarounds like paid runs and stuff but it shouldn’t be necessary.

I know people who really hate pvp for example. If they had put masteries in that you had to go do so pvp for, these people would freak out. They just don’t even wanna go near there but in this scenario they would have to if they want their normal xp bar back. And so it is with the raid example.

For me personally it’s not an issue because I’ll just go there and get it over with, but I do have some understanding towards people who want to completely stay away from it. It’s not about getting some special reward, it’s about getting a core element of the game, called the xp bar that people want back. I see no reason why a toggle option shouldn’t be implemented.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Reiterating something since it was deleted…

I’m at mastery level 170, which means I’ve maxed every single mastery in the game.

Here is a list of adventures I didn’t get gold or silver on:

Shooting Gallery
A Fungus Among Us
Sanctum Scramble
Scrap Field Rifle Test

Here is a list of adventures I didn’t get gold on, but did get Silver on:

Tendril Torchers
Flying Circus
Bugs in the Branches
Fallen Masks
The Floor is Lava
The Ley-line Run
Haywire Punchomatic
Beetle Feast

In addition I only got 2 masteries from raids, even though 11 more are available.

The mastery system is meant to be a long term goal but the stuff you need to play isn’t hard to get. And you can get all of it without doing a good portion of the adventures at all. You can certainly do it without getting gold on most of them.

Just thought I’d clarify this since some people don’t seem to realize this.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

We’re talking about a toggle between the Masteries and regular XP gain. So instead of being stuck with all XP going to Masteries even when we have no Mastery Points to use, we can toggle back to gaining regular XP.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

Okay but, in each of those cases, you have to level each character seperately. HoT, on the other hand, you level your masteries one single time and you’re done. Once you unlock gliding on one character, all your characters have gliding.

Nor is HoT particularly linear. While you don’t have the options to have five starter zones, you don’t have to level each character differently.

I played HoT a lot like I played the core worlds. Even from the first waypoint in HoT, there are two directions you can go, leading to two different outposts, with two different event chains.

Some people just level their masteries via raids. Some people play open world stuff. If you have a lot of characters, you can even level by doing the story over and over again. Adventures give a ton of experience.

If you’re seeing HoT as linear, I assure you it’s not. It’s like anything else, you have to run through zones to get to the next zone, but even taht’s not 100%. For example if you have the AB guild hall, you can get into AB without ever setting foot into VB.

In hindsight, you are somewhat correct. With experience it’s easy to see the paths and options HoT presented to a fresh player, despite how limited they were. However this was all but drowned by a tidal wave of negative reinforcement for trying to do anything BUT those couple of options, either by constantly pointing to the mastery page in the most obnoxious fashion or outright killing the player with no warning and then pointing to the mastery page anyways.

HoT stopped being about things I could do and became about everything i couldn’t do and the mastery system wasn’t about unlocking cool abilities to open up the world, but about removing unnecessary barriers to actually playing the game. Luckilly once completed, those masteries stay on my account forever and I never have to bother with it ever again, which is one of the only reasons I sat through it.

I understand your complaint, but I kinda have to disagree with your reasoning. See, much of the effort in getting masteries is quite organic; you need to level to get experience, so that experience was going to a mastery, just one you select to level first; then you needed to get mastery points, which many of them in the beginning could be found all over the map in the same way that hero points were.

So really, I don’t see the problem. The one complaint I have is that at the later levels it starts getting harder to get the mastery points.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I really like this idea, and I hope they do it. The only single downside I can see is people not realizing they have the wrong one toggled and so they’re thinking they’re working on a mastery and they’re actually just getting spirit shards. That’s bound to annoy people. What they would need to do is make the mastery bar look drastically different from the XP bar, because it’s easy to not notice that bar at this point in time.

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

We’re talking about a toggle between the Masteries and regular XP gain. So instead of being stuck with all XP going to Masteries even when we have no Mastery Points to use, we can toggle back to gaining regular XP.

But you can’t get regular XP, you are maxed out.

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: Gwilym.4257

Gwilym.4257

Horizontal progression is the illusion of progression, people who support it are a large part of the reason this game is not towering over others at its full potential.

That said, gaining experience for masteries was not what was most annoying, it was acquiring the points to be able to purchase each tier. Sure at first you’re able to unlock the early tiers just by playing through the expansion but eventually it becomes this grindy egg hunt, forcing you to play aspects that you really don’t care for. People justify it by saying, “Well you only have to do it once.”

This game was founded with the principle of “you can play the way you want” and it was said that this expansion was not going to be grindy..

Fool me twice..

Character progression is a given in MMO’s and must occur. So, there’s the choice between horizontal and vertical progression. It’s actually VP that’s the illusion and let me run that down for you with an example. In WoW, when I started, I had ~15k HP. Several expansions later I had 500k HP. Now, you must be thinking, you had become a God. You must now one-shot everything and never die. Nope. Everything was the same at 500k HP. Mobs took just as long to kill and I died just as quickly. You see, in the meantime all the other players had treaded the mill to 500k HP and all the mobs I was fighting had become 500k HP. The only thing that happened was that I rode a very long, very grindy treadmill to get to where I already was. It’s actually VP that provides the illusion of progression.

Horizontal, otoh, provides something lasting. Let’s take a skill like gliding. Once I have gained the skill, through horizontal progression, I have something that I didn’t have before and something that will never be taken away from me. That’s the basic rundown on progression. VP provides an illusion of progression, HP provides actual progression.

That said, in order to have play it your way, horizontal progression must occur as a result of playing the game. Two months ago I had 9 mastery points. In the last two months I have completed 3 ascended sets of armor (light, medium, and heavy) and several weapons. I have killed innumerable bosses and advanced 5-6 characters on their way to map completion, etc. I have played the game everyday…my way. And, I have the same 9 mastery points I started with.

Basically, horizontal progression simply isn’t happening for me and that’s the failure of Anet’s implementation of it. It is possible to have a horizontal progression system that goes nowhere if a players playstyle doesn’t match a developers notion of play. My basic principle is that reward should come from playing the game. It shouldn’t be possible to play the game religiously and not move the bar of horizontal progression.

(edited by Gwilym.4257)

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Ahh I see your confusion.

Here’s the thing. Before masteries when you were level 80 you would still gain xp and each time you would complete a level you wouldn’t gain a new level of course but you would gain spirit shards.

Then masteries came in and instead of gaining spirit shards you gain xp for masteries instead. The trick is this. You won’t get your normal xp bar back until you’ve completed ALL of the masteries and if you have no interest in getting all the masteries, your xp bar is basically blocked from gaining any xp towards these spirit shards.

What people are asking for is a way to go back to gaining xp for spirit shards without having to complete all the masteries they don’t care to get. So my idea is to let people toggle not only between masteries but also select a non-mastery option if that makes sense.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

(edited by Gehenna.3625)

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

if i have to level a mastery just to get trough a story piece it’s a design flaw, it’s as if they force you to do stuff against your will just so you “might” like it at the time you finally made it.
i can understand the glider part, you need to “master” gliding to be able to do certain maneuvers.
however, the rylek’s can speak english just like everybody else and now i have to understand their language by getting XP, i barely talk to them and now i have to talk to them just because of….what reason?

a story should work like a book, if you need to learn a language you never heard of just because that one single chapter happens to be in that language you will not sell this book.
the story in the book is like an experience in it self, you enjoy every single piece of lore and cliffhanger.

i want a story that doesn’t depend on masteries, when that happens masteries becomes more a progress for character instead of story.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Ahh I see your confusion.

Here’s the thing. Before masteries when you were level 80 you would still gain xp and each time you would complete a level you wouldn’t gain a new level of course but you would gain spirit shards.

Then masteries came in and instead of gaining spirit shards you gain xp for masteries instead. The trick is this. You won’t get your normal xp bar back until you’ve completed ALL of the masteries and if you have no interest in getting all the masteries, your xp bar is basically blocked from gaining any xp towards these spirit shards.

What people are asking for is a way to go back to gaining xp for spirit shards without having to complete all the masteries they don’t care to get. So my idea is to let people toggle not only between masteries but also select a non-mastery option if that makes sense.

Actually, before Masteries, one did not gain Spirit Shards for ‘dinging’ a level after 80. The period between the change to Traits and the release of HoT, a player gained nothing whatsoever for leveling past L80. What we did get several months prior to the release of HoT and pre-Trait change was a Skill Point. Skill Points, as you know, were either used for Skill/Trait acquisition or spent for Mystic Forge materials (as Spirit Shards are now). Also, during the period between the Trait change and the release of HoT, we could acquire Spirit Shards through Champion Bags/Boxes, loot drops, exchanging Tomes of Knowledge, Dailies, etc. We have never before received a Spirit Shard for leveling.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Ahh I see your confusion.

Here’s the thing. Before masteries when you were level 80 you would still gain xp and each time you would complete a level you wouldn’t gain a new level of course but you would gain spirit shards.

Then masteries came in and instead of gaining spirit shards you gain xp for masteries instead. The trick is this. You won’t get your normal xp bar back until you’ve completed ALL of the masteries and if you have no interest in getting all the masteries, your xp bar is basically blocked from gaining any xp towards these spirit shards.

What people are asking for is a way to go back to gaining xp for spirit shards without having to complete all the masteries they don’t care to get. So my idea is to let people toggle not only between masteries but also select a non-mastery option if that makes sense.

Actually, before Masteries, one did not gain Spirit Shards for ‘dinging’ a level after 80. The period between the change to Traits and the release of HoT, a player gained nothing whatsoever for leveling past L80. What we did get several months prior to the release of HoT and pre-Trait change was a Skill Point. Skill Points, as you know, were either used for Skill/Trait acquisition or spent for Mystic Forge materials (as Spirit Shards are now). Also, during the period between the Trait change and the release of HoT, we could acquire Spirit Shards through Champion Bags/Boxes, loot drops, exchanging Tomes of Knowledge, Dailies, etc. We have never before received a Spirit Shard for leveling.

Although you may be historically correct, it doesn’t really make a difference. Currently there is an issue where people get stuck on their xp bar if they don’t complete the masteries. Whatever reward you got when for dinging on the normal xp bar is rather beside the point…the point is of course that you don’t get this reward anymore, whichever it is, if you don’t complete the masteries. That’s the focus point here I think. I just quoted what I saw in other threads but it wasn’t the focus of the point.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Ahh I see your confusion.

Here’s the thing. Before masteries when you were level 80 you would still gain xp and each time you would complete a level you wouldn’t gain a new level of course but you would gain spirit shards.

Then masteries came in and instead of gaining spirit shards you gain xp for masteries instead. The trick is this. You won’t get your normal xp bar back until you’ve completed ALL of the masteries and if you have no interest in getting all the masteries, your xp bar is basically blocked from gaining any xp towards these spirit shards.

What people are asking for is a way to go back to gaining xp for spirit shards without having to complete all the masteries they don’t care to get. So my idea is to let people toggle not only between masteries but also select a non-mastery option if that makes sense.

Actually, before Masteries, one did not gain Spirit Shards for ‘dinging’ a level after 80. The period between the change to Traits and the release of HoT, a player gained nothing whatsoever for leveling past L80. What we did get several months prior to the release of HoT and pre-Trait change was a Skill Point. Skill Points, as you know, were either used for Skill/Trait acquisition or spent for Mystic Forge materials (as Spirit Shards are now). Also, during the period between the Trait change and the release of HoT, we could acquire Spirit Shards through Champion Bags/Boxes, loot drops, exchanging Tomes of Knowledge, Dailies, etc. We have never before received a Spirit Shard for leveling.

Although you may be historically correct, it doesn’t really make a difference. Currently there is an issue where people get stuck on their xp bar if they don’t complete the masteries. Whatever reward you got when for dinging on the normal xp bar is rather beside the point…the point is of course that you don’t get this reward anymore, whichever it is, if you don’t complete the masteries. That’s the focus point here I think. I just quoted what I saw in other threads but it wasn’t the focus of the point.

Yes, the current system is that after capping all Masteries you WILL get Spirit Shards for leveling. So the question is why people have to wait until Masteries are capped. If I don’t intend to pursue any further Mastery Points because I don’t prefer to play the content they are in, why am I banned from ever again receiving anything from my XP gains?

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

The solution can’t be just a toggle to disable the bar surely. Just because you can’t see the lack of masteries and waste of Xp doesn’t mean they’re not happening. Is that what people would really want? Out of sight, out of mind?

That’s also not what I suggested. For me a toggle can go both ways, so also toggle it back on depending on what you want to gain xp for.

I agree that is the definition of a toggle. There currently aren’t any things to gain XP for except Masteries. I’m clearly missing the point and I don’t doubt you know what you want and I’m pretty sure I could get behind it. I just don’t know what it is.
Toggle so it shows what Mastery track you are working on?

Ahh I see your confusion.

Here’s the thing. Before masteries when you were level 80 you would still gain xp and each time you would complete a level you wouldn’t gain a new level of course but you would gain spirit shards.

Then masteries came in and instead of gaining spirit shards you gain xp for masteries instead. The trick is this. You won’t get your normal xp bar back until you’ve completed ALL of the masteries and if you have no interest in getting all the masteries, your xp bar is basically blocked from gaining any xp towards these spirit shards.

What people are asking for is a way to go back to gaining xp for spirit shards without having to complete all the masteries they don’t care to get. So my idea is to let people toggle not only between masteries but also select a non-mastery option if that makes sense.

Actually, before Masteries, one did not gain Spirit Shards for ‘dinging’ a level after 80. The period between the change to Traits and the release of HoT, a player gained nothing whatsoever for leveling past L80. What we did get several months prior to the release of HoT and pre-Trait change was a Skill Point. Skill Points, as you know, were either used for Skill/Trait acquisition or spent for Mystic Forge materials (as Spirit Shards are now). Also, during the period between the Trait change and the release of HoT, we could acquire Spirit Shards through Champion Bags/Boxes, loot drops, exchanging Tomes of Knowledge, Dailies, etc. We have never before received a Spirit Shard for leveling.

Although you may be historically correct, it doesn’t really make a difference. Currently there is an issue where people get stuck on their xp bar if they don’t complete the masteries. Whatever reward you got when for dinging on the normal xp bar is rather beside the point…the point is of course that you don’t get this reward anymore, whichever it is, if you don’t complete the masteries. That’s the focus point here I think. I just quoted what I saw in other threads but it wasn’t the focus of the point.

Yes, the current system is that after capping all Masteries you WILL get Spirit Shards for leveling. So the question is why people have to wait until Masteries are capped. If I don’t intend to pursue any further Mastery Points because I don’t prefer to play the content they are in, why am I banned from ever again receiving anything from my XP gains?

That’s the 6,000,000 karma question. Along with: when anet were sitting around discussing this, did no one ask that question?

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Posted by: yamay.8075

yamay.8075

I returned to the game after a couple of years of break and there are a few things that bother me about the mastery system, which I’m not going to list here as they’ve already been mentioned.

I just can’t help but wonder, though…what if we only needed mastery points OR filling the exp bar to master a given mastery? I am horrible at jumping puzzles and timed events, but I don’t mind doing the pve grind. I’d totally just do events all night long instead of falling to my death over and over again just for a single mastery point (yes I fail at gliding). Also, am I correct in assuming that the mastery points are finite? I wish they’d implement a daily system where you can farm a mastery point or two each day doing a type of game mode we enjoy.

Another thing I’d want to see is the ability to skip masteries you are not interested in. For example, I don’t want stealth gliding but I want the one after that. Basic mastery being mandatory is fine, though, but after that it should be player choice, imho. Just keep the cost higher for more advanced training, but give us choice depending on how we want to play the expansion areas.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I returned to the game after a couple of years of break and there are a few things that bother me about the mastery system, which I’m not going to list here as they’ve already been mentioned.

I just can’t help but wonder, though…what if we only needed mastery points OR filling the exp bar to master a given mastery? I am horrible at jumping puzzles and timed events, but I don’t mind doing the pve grind. I’d totally just do events all night long instead of falling to my death over and over again just for a single mastery point (yes I fail at gliding). Also, am I correct in assuming that the mastery points are finite? I wish they’d implement a daily system where you can farm a mastery point or two each day doing a type of game mode we enjoy.

Another thing I’d want to see is the ability to skip masteries you are not interested in. For example, I don’t want stealth gliding but I want the one after that. Basic mastery being mandatory is fine, though, but after that it should be player choice, imho. Just keep the cost higher for more advanced training, but give us choice depending on how we want to play the expansion areas.

Why not just enlist a friendly mesmer for help? I help people get stuff they have trouble getting quite frequently. I have a mesmer, I enjoy jumping so why not?

It’ll save you time and frustration. It’s a win for everyone.

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Posted by: Redfeather.6401

Redfeather.6401

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

What’s the next expansion going to be like? Masteries that require 5 million xp? And that xp can only be earned in 2 zones? I worry for this game’s future.

BTW, I was motivated to get the stealth mastery because in bloodstone fen I was getting killed by gliding way too much. Before I quit, I went to bloodstone fen to use the stealth gliding. It barely helps and I died twice to homing rocks and quit in frustration.

(edited by Redfeather.6401)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

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Posted by: Redfeather.6401

Redfeather.6401

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind. I was also struggling to find events I could complete. I died many times trying to do certain events before giving up. I should have used lfg to find an xp train or something. I just wanted to explore on my own and enjoy stuff, and it backfired.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind.

That’s definitely it. Boosters all stack. Many of them are free or cheap. There are a number of ways you can increase experience gain. In events with lots of adds, make sure you have a weapon that pierces or does AOE damage as well so you tag the maximum number of enemies.

The XP boosters, if you have any, don’t just give you kill XP bonus. they give you 50% bonus on events as well.

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Posted by: Redfeather.6401

Redfeather.6401

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind.

That’s definitely it. Boosters all stack. Many of them are free or cheap. There are a number of ways you can increase experience gain. In events with lots of adds, make sure you have a weapon that pierces or does AOE damage as well so you tag the maximum number of enemies.

The XP boosters, if you have any, don’t just give you kill XP bonus. they give you 50% bonus on events as well.

Would the events give stacked xp bonuses too? I would like to try and continue gliding masteries next weekend and it would probably help if the xp from events could be stacked to be double or more. :O

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind.

That’s definitely it. Boosters all stack. Many of them are free or cheap. There are a number of ways you can increase experience gain. In events with lots of adds, make sure you have a weapon that pierces or does AOE damage as well so you tag the maximum number of enemies.

The XP boosters, if you have any, don’t just give you kill XP bonus. they give you 50% bonus on events as well.

Would the events give stacked xp bonuses too? I would like to try and continue gliding masteries next weekend and it would probably help if the xp from events could be stacked to be double or more. :O

I think the most you can get on events is 50%. But what you can do it get to VB right at the beginning of day. Or even the beginning if night if you want. Do the night events and then follow the event chain, any of htem really, from the beginning. YOu’ll get like 9 events in a row plus kills.

If you’re on a US server, I’d be happy to show you how I do it.

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Redfeather.6401

Redfeather.6401

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind.

That’s definitely it. Boosters all stack. Many of them are free or cheap. There are a number of ways you can increase experience gain. In events with lots of adds, make sure you have a weapon that pierces or does AOE damage as well so you tag the maximum number of enemies.

The XP boosters, if you have any, don’t just give you kill XP bonus. they give you 50% bonus on events as well.

Would the events give stacked xp bonuses too? I would like to try and continue gliding masteries next weekend and it would probably help if the xp from events could be stacked to be double or more. :O

I think the most you can get on events is 50%. But what you can do it get to VB right at the beginning of day. Or even the beginning if night if you want. Do the night events and then follow the event chain, any of htem really, from the beginning. YOu’ll get like 9 events in a row plus kills.

If you’re on a US server, I’d be happy to show you how I do it.

I’m going to log in and add you as a friend.
Don’t worry as I won’t hold you to helping me out. I won’t be playing for real until the weekend and it might be busy enough to figure it out on my own. But I really appreciate your advice and helping me to get better at completing these masteries!

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Also, am I correct in assuming that the mastery points are finite? I wish they’d implement a daily system where you can farm a mastery point or two each day doing a type of game mode we enjoy.

Another thing I’d want to see is the ability to skip masteries you are not interested in. For example, I don’t want stealth gliding but I want the one after that. Basic mastery being mandatory is fine, though, but after that it should be player choice, imho. Just keep the cost higher for more advanced training, but give us choice depending on how we want to play the expansion areas.

Yes, Mastery Points are finite which forces you to play in modes you don’t prefer if you want to get a fair number of Mastery Lines. Getting Mastery Points by doing something we enjoy – that would be great. Anet has gone from being my #1 choice of MMO because of the many CHOICES I had in game play to the most on-rails MMO I have ever played. I am only still here because of my time investment and inertia. And those are quickly wearing off.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Yesterday I decided to get my stealth glider mastery from 34% to completion. It took me all day!
I wandered HoT zones struggling to find events for the xp. I was so bummed out after a couple of hours that I asked in map chat what to do, and people said tarir meta event. So I farmed that. It took a while and got so repetitive that the second I got the stealth glider mastery I quit. Does the average person actually enjoy this type of game-play?

I have no idea why it took you that long to max it. In almost any HoT zone, I can max a mastery in an hour or two, from scratch.

Are you using any kinds of boosters, food, utiltiies, guild buffs, birthday boosters, celebration boosters?

Maybe that’s it. I wasn’t using boosters of any kind. I was also struggling to find events I could complete. I died many times trying to do certain events before giving up. I should have used lfg to find an xp train or something. I just wanted to explore on my own and enjoy stuff, and it backfired.

Yes, this is another problem with the HoT maps. In the pre-HoT maps, you can wander around and level your character as you like. In HoT the mobs are very deadly to the casual, solo player. And good luck soloing events.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

Yes, the current system is that after capping all Masteries you WILL get Spirit Shards for leveling. So the question is why people have to wait until Masteries are capped. If I don’t intend to pursue any further Mastery Points because I don’t prefer to play the content they are in, why am I banned from ever again receiving anything from my XP gains?

yeah that’s the core of the issue for some people. I all honestly, I think it’s something that I can imagine being an oversight. I am not sure if Anet expected many people not to want to complete them and the one shard per level isn’t a huge reward. They’ll have to decide whether this issue warrants a change or if they are happy with how it works currently. Personally I don’t see an issue with people getting an extra toggle option but there could be reasons that Anet want to keep it the way it is. I guess time will tell.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

Why I hated HoT and the mastery system.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Yes, the current system is that after capping all Masteries you WILL get Spirit Shards for leveling. So the question is why people have to wait until Masteries are capped. If I don’t intend to pursue any further Mastery Points because I don’t prefer to play the content they are in, why am I banned from ever again receiving anything from my XP gains?

yeah that’s the core of the issue for some people. I all honestly, I think it’s something that I can imagine being an oversight. I am not sure if Anet expected many people not to want to complete them and the one shard per level isn’t a huge reward. They’ll have to decide whether this issue warrants a change or if they are happy with how it works currently. Personally I don’t see an issue with people getting an extra toggle option but there could be reasons that Anet want to keep it the way it is. I guess time will tell.

Its not even a matter of “not wanting to complete” Masteries. I’d love to have all the perks of capped Masteries, but I play games to have fun. Too many Mastery Points are locked behind content that I don’t find fun so I’m not going to do it. I have gained almost all MP that I can without resorting to stuff that I don’t find fun. If it is a choice between doing things I don’t find fun or not getting more MP, I won’t get more MP. It makes zero sense to me to play a game for entertainment and then do things I don’t enjoy in that game.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

I returned to the game after a couple of years of break and there are a few things that bother me about the mastery system, which I’m not going to list here as they’ve already been mentioned.

I just can’t help but wonder, though…what if we only needed mastery points OR filling the exp bar to master a given mastery? I am horrible at jumping puzzles and timed events, but I don’t mind doing the pve grind. I’d totally just do events all night long instead of falling to my death over and over again just for a single mastery point (yes I fail at gliding). Also, am I correct in assuming that the mastery points are finite? I wish they’d implement a daily system where you can farm a mastery point or two each day doing a type of game mode we enjoy.

Another thing I’d want to see is the ability to skip masteries you are not interested in. For example, I don’t want stealth gliding but I want the one after that. Basic mastery being mandatory is fine, though, but after that it should be player choice, imho. Just keep the cost higher for more advanced training, but give us choice depending on how we want to play the expansion areas.

So much this. Mastering something involves training (although given the world it is understandable that magic, ie the MP, is another path). Why should it involve BOTH training and magic? Give us a choice – those that prefer achieves get what they want and those that turn white at the list and want to bash mobs on the head instead also win.

Right now I have my ‘must get’ list (pact cmdr at max, gliding-5 and level 2 on everything else in HOT). Next up is the new one in LS3 and my ‘nice to have’ list (a few select HOT ones). Everything else I am not interested in. I can see where, oh, poison resistance, would come in handy but the risk/reward ratio does not justify it.