Guild Wars 2

Squash the forum bug

cranos.5913:

Vayne.8563:

Anet had to go back and redo parts of HoT because too many people wouldn’t go there on a bet. The redo helped. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t eventually have to do something to placate the masses about legendary armor as well.

IDK, we’ll see. Wouldn’t upset me at all. Heavy looks like a transformer, medium is confirmed trenchcoat and light probably the buttcape so I’m not interested at all.

This is the trend.
I won’t let this interrupt my playing. I will actually like seeing this armour in action.
(Maybe point out some Auto-bots in LA will be the new AFK activity!)
heh- but seriously…let us all wait until the pixels are dry on the art and release before the pitch forks come out please?
See y’all in game!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Blude.6812:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Cynova.7406:

Why only raids? If we can get legendary weps in a variety of regular pve content why not the legendary armor? Not everyone likes raids and a top tier of equipment shouldn’t be exclusive only to those who want to raid.

Will there be other options and ways to acquire legendary armor is this the only way?

Why do all Legendary weapons have to be tied to open world Pve content? And exclusive to people that play Pve?

Agree, but the solution should be that every type of legendary armor and weapons (and ascended and infusions) are available in both PvE and WvW not exclusive to one type of play. Nothing should be locked behind raids.

Why shouldn’t anything be locked behind raids? It takes the most effort in game for any Pve content nothing is stopping players from doing raids besides the players themselves, there is no hard gear requirement and so on.

They should have alternate legendary armor for each gamemode but I don’t see that happening anytime soon, given Anets Track record of ignoring most feedback on anything meaningful for WvW and so on.

I should have said locked behind one mode of play or another. Legendary completion of any type shouldn’t be restricted to a specific gamemode. Alternate armors for PvE and WvW and raids an great suggestion. Some may go for 1,2 or all of them. As you mentioned about Anet, I tend to agree, and don’t think they will be changing anything.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They should have alternate legendary armor for each gamemode but I don’t see that happening anytime soon, given Anets Track record of ignoring most feedback on anything meaningful for WvW and so on.

Or rather different avenues to go about crafting it in each game mode.

Just taking the insights requirement as an example:

• PvE could stay as is and require you to beat a boss to get insights.
• PvP could rely on tickets to buy parts that you upgrade through winning matches to create an equivalent. Something like a win streak of three matches.
• WvW could do the same with proofs as well buy an item require a task. Could be something like build up a structure, or capture tier 3 structure.

Eval.2371:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They should have alternate legendary armor for each gamemode but I don’t see that happening anytime soon, given Anets Track record of ignoring most feedback on anything meaningful for WvW and so on.

Or rather different avenues to go about crafting it in each game mode.

Just taking the insights requirement as an example:

• PvE could stay as is and require you to beat a boss to get insights.
• PvP could rely on tickets to buy parts that you upgrade through winning matches to create an equivalent. Something like a win streak of three matches.
• WvW could do the same with proofs as well buy an item require a task. Could be something like build up a structure, or capture tier 3 structure.

Yes, that would be ideal but sadly I doubt it will happen anytime soon

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I assume it’s because it clips on Revenants, Theifs, and Necros so that’s why it’s only available in Raids?

This made me laugh so hard. XD

It’s probably to get more folks raiding to justify the amount of time and effort the devs spent on the minority content called raids.

No it should stay raids. If they made it open world accessible they’d end up locked behind a super crafting and RNG event grind that nobody wants to do.

Raids are probably the first humane way of getting legendries this game has ever offered.

Crinn.7864:

No it should stay raids. If they made it open world accessible they’d end up locked behind a super crafting and RNG event grind that nobody wants to do.

Raids are probably the first humane way of getting legendries this game has ever offered.

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

thats just too kitten bad.

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

I haven’t seen that many complaints about differences between fractal and pvp backpack acquisition method.
Yes, some people would complain (because some people always complain), but that wouldn’t be all that common.

When in doubt, erring on the side of raids getting their version faster/cheaper (as long as the difference wouldn’t be massive) would be perfectly fine.

Astralporing.1957:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

I haven’t seen that many complaints about differences between fractal and pvp backpack acquisition method.
Yes, some people would complain (because some people always complain), but that wouldn’t be all that common.

When in doubt, erring on the side of raids getting their version faster/cheaper (as long as the difference wouldn’t be massive) would be perfectly fine.

Which is funny since the Fractal backpiece is guaranteed if you do the Fractals while the Pvp one was not.

sophiewhite.3149:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

thats just too kitten bad.

On the contrary, stuff like that is bad for the game, too. There’s really no good solution that’s going to satisfy everyone.

People who do epic stuff in the game reasonably expect epic rewards. But people who are dedicated to the game also expect epic rewards. It’s hard to accommodate all play styles. I do think ANet made a tactical mistake tying the first legendary gear to content they were certain would be rejected by many, but having made that decision… I think it would be a worse mistake to reverse it.

I would like to see them stop offering new thing in raids first (e.g. new infusions with auras, hard-to-find stats, etc) and find a way to spit out new content to PvE faster, even if it’s just stuff like Modus Sceleris (I think the cats-at-home hunt shows we’re ready for it now).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sophiewhite.3149:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

thats just too kitten bad.

On the contrary, stuff like that is bad for the game, too. There’s really no good solution that’s going to satisfy everyone.

People who do epic stuff in the game reasonably expect epic rewards. But people who are dedicated to the game also expect epic rewards. It’s hard to accommodate all play styles. I do think ANet made a tactical mistake tying the first legendary gear to content they were certain would be rejected by many, but having made that decision… I think it would be a worse mistake to reverse it.

I would like to see them stop offering new thing in raids first (e.g. new infusions with auras, hard-to-find stats, etc) and find a way to spit out new content to PvE faster, even if it’s just stuff like Modus Sceleris (I think the cats-at-home hunt shows we’re ready for it now).

theyve been doing it all this time. with weapons and backpacks being legendary. wvw players complained constantly that they had to put in more work than someone who farmed sw to get the gold for a weapon. but hey thats just life.

They should open up Legendary rewards to all content modes, and YES, that includes Legendary weapons being opened up to more avenues. “WEell you have to open world to get Legendary Weapons” is no excuse to keep Legendary Armor exclusive to raids.

To answer the OP’s question, there is no good reason why Legendary Armor is currently tied to raids, and they should rectify that sooner rather than later.

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

sophiewhite.3149:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

thats just too kitten bad.

On the contrary, stuff like that is bad for the game, too. There’s really no good solution that’s going to satisfy everyone.

People who do epic stuff in the game reasonably expect epic rewards. But people who are dedicated to the game also expect epic rewards. It’s hard to accommodate all play styles. I do think ANet made a tactical mistake tying the first legendary gear to content they were certain would be rejected by many, but having made that decision… I think it would be a worse mistake to reverse it.

I would like to see them stop offering new thing in raids first (e.g. new infusions with auras, hard-to-find stats, etc) and find a way to spit out new content to PvE faster, even if it’s just stuff like Modus Sceleris (I think the cats-at-home hunt shows we’re ready for it now).

If people complaining where bad for the game, there would be no MMORPGs at all. No one is saying that raiders can’t have legendary armor, or get it through raiding.

But that’s clearly an long, drawn out expensive process. People who bought HoT have already been complaining about the small amount of armors and Anet themselves have talked about how long and how hard the process is to make new armor for every race, every gender. It’s hard work. It’s why there are so few armors in the game and one of the reasons Guild Wars 1 had so many more armors. One race, two genders and done. Much easier.

So here we have a set of armor the majority would never have. We were told that raids didn’t take away from other content because only five people worked on it. Here’s a super complex piece of armor I might never have. Most people won’t have it. But more work has gone into it.

In the mean time, how many people love/want the few sets released with HOT? I think I wear bladed on one character but that’s it.

It’s not like we’re flush with masses of new armor skins. One is behind PvP, one is behind WvW, which some people hate. And you have to PvP, WvW a long time to get those. Now one will be behind raids, but what about everyone else?

I’d rather see an armor set developed that more people can make use of but barring that, I’d like to see ways in more people can get this armor set.

Because it’s not like most people are satisified with the number of new armors (as opposed to outfits) entering the game.

Vayne.8563:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Deal with the idea that it’s not going to change and start doing raids. We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released. Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all. Other players have proven you can 6-man almost every boss with decent gear. All it requires is time and effort. You don’t have that? Tough luck, legendary armor is not for you. It’s the ultimate prestige item in GW2 and it’s not going to be handed like legendary weapon and backpiece candies. Freebie players like yourself will be glad to know lege armor wont be out for another 3-4 months. You have plenty of time to get required 150 LI. Gd Luck.

Anka.5086:

Vayne.8563:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Deal with the idea that it’s not going to change and start doing raids. We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released. Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all. Other players have proven you can 6-man almost every boss with decent gear. All it requires is time and effort. You don’t have that? Tough luck, legendary armor is not for you. It’s the ultimate prestige item in GW2 and it’s not going to be handed like legendary weapon and backpiece candies. Freebie players like yourself will be glad to know lege armor wont be out for another 3-4 months. You have plenty of time to get required 150 LI. Gd Luck.

We did see this topic alot, people just got tierd of being ignored.
Sure keep that skin raid only and dont release it untill you got 1 set for each game mode Wvw, spvp and open world pve aswell then.

Anka.5086:

Vayne.8563:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Deal with the idea that it’s not going to change and start doing raids. We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released. Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all. Other players have proven you can 6-man almost every boss with decent gear. All it requires is time and effort. You don’t have that? Tough luck, legendary armor is not for you. It’s the ultimate prestige item in GW2 and it’s not going to be handed like legendary weapon and backpiece candies. Freebie players like yourself will be glad to know lege armor wont be out for another 3-4 months. You have plenty of time to get required 150 LI. Gd Luck.

basically your saying according to arena nets thoughts on what raids should be that raids need to be buffed and become even more difficult. RAIDS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A MINORITY. which means this armor that they spent a ton of time on is supposed to only be owned by less than 10% of the population. gg anet.

Anka.5086:

Vayne.8563:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Deal with the idea that it’s not going to change and start doing raids. We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released. Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all. Other players have proven you can 6-man almost every boss with decent gear. All it requires is time and effort. You don’t have that? Tough luck, legendary armor is not for you. It’s the ultimate prestige item in GW2 and it’s not going to be handed like legendary weapon and backpiece candies. Freebie players like yourself will be glad to know lege armor wont be out for another 3-4 months. You have plenty of time to get required 150 LI. Gd Luck.

I’ve been talking about this topic long long before hte first raid ever entered the game. I complained about it before the first raid entered the game. And my feelings haven’t changed since then.

Anka.5086:

We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released.

You haven’t been reading forums much then. Those topics are pretty much a constant since even before HoT launched.

Anka.5086

Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all

I completely agree with the first part of the statement – "Anyone can do raids’ – this is ANet’s official position regarding this aspect. Still, I remember you that having the Legendary armor is not tied with trying the raid, but actually defeating it. And in this way we are going to:

The second part: " it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all" is completely FALSE. Because ANet designed the encounters and the bosses in such a way that only a small portion (of the community) will be able to defeat it

So, ANet is saying that they made the Raids possible to be completed only by a very few. You states that everybody can beat the raid (and very easy). Who is wrong?

My conclusion is: I paid for a product and I cannot find a way to work in order to achieve something – why? ANet denies me this (believe me or not, I’m not a part of that small portion).

Next time I will be more careful – if in the next XPac I will find even one single details I cannot touch, I won’t waste my money on it.

Cristalyan.5728:

Anka.5086

Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all

I completely agree with the first part of the statement – "Anyone can do raids’ – this is ANet’s official position regarding this aspect. Still, I remember you that having the Legendary armor is not tied with trying the raid, but actually defeating it. And in this way we are going to:

The second part: " it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all" is completely FALSE. Because ANet designed the encounters and the bosses in such a way that only a small portion (of the community) will be able to defeat it

So, ANet is saying that they made the Raids possible to be completed only by a very few. You states that everybody can beat the raid (and very easy). Who is wrong?

My conclusion is: I paid for a product and I cannot find a way to work in order to achieve something – why? ANet denies me this (believe me or not, I’m not a part of that small portion).

Next time I will be more careful – if in the next XPac I will find even one single details I cannot touch, I won’t waste my money on it.

You realize its only a few of the bosses that are “actually difficult”…right? Say Matthias/Xera/KC are some of the more “lntensive” bosses that require careful attention to mechanics and working together. Bosses like Sabetha/VG/Gorse/Sloth are arguably hard, but not insanely difficult. And hell if you want a cake boss? Try Escort….I literally took 7 players from my guild (a few who only had experience on trying VG a couple of times and NEVER killed it, and others who have never touched a raid), and we managed to beat it in 4 tries. Hell some of them didn’t have the “most optimal” gear or anything, but they were dedicated and wanted to try. Now I’m taking them every week to learn mechanics on other bosses and if they don’t beat it, well they don’t care. THEY ARE LEARNING. We did a Slothasor last week (first time on it), and we managed to get him down to 20% after about 2 hours of work and rotations. ITS NOT THAT DIFFICULT IF YOU TRY. Eventually I’m sure they will be able to beat the bosses too. If its “too hard” to kill a boss for you, maybe you should keep trying and learning, rather than give up so quickly.

Edit: I feel I should also mention within this post I’m sorry if it seems like I’m trying to make you seem like a bad player or anything, I’m sure you have your reasons. However I’m just trying to point out that some raid bosses are definitely easy to work with if you take the time to learn it.

Deadlypixel.8734

If its “too hard” to kill a boss for you, maybe you should keep trying and learning, rather than give up so quickly.
Edit: I feel I should also mention within this post I’m sorry if it seems like I’m trying to make you seem like a bad player or anything, I’m sure you have your reasons.

Don’t worry about this:-)) I already admitted I’m not part of that small portion of the community successfully completing the raids. But, I must admit, what made me very reluctant in this matter is not my skill or my ability to improve it – if necessary – but ANet statements regarding the raids being designed only for few. I considered this as a non politically correct attitude – because when talking about sells, ANet took the money from all

Still, the subject of this debate is not if the raids are easy or not and not even if some bosses are doable or not, but: “Why does Lege armor have to be tied to Raids?”

By splitting the hair in four, we are trying to understand here (bringing opinions and arguments to support the position) if this is an expected result for ANet – that means the option to tie the Armor with the Raid brings positive results – or this discontent attitude of the players is an unexpected consequence.

We are trying here to understand how the decision to design content only for a small portion of the community and to support this decision with official statements can help the game. And how this can help the game?

We have here:
1. The Legendary armor is tied with the Raids.
2. We designed the raids with the idea that only a small portion of the playerbase to be able to complete it.

From 1 and 2 the conclusion is: The Legendary armor is only for a small part of the community. But to be sure that the mistake made with the Legendary Weapons will not occur again, (that means too many “scrubs” can craft one today) this time we not only make things harder. This time we make sure it is as indented – by design. Not for all – because this is the way we designed the Raid :-))

Maybe I’m too stupid, but I cannot find any positive result of this action.

Cristalyan.5728:

Don’t worry about this:-)) I already admitted I’m not part of that small portion of the community successfully completing the raids. But, I must admit, what made me very reluctant in this matter is not my skill or my ability to improve it – if necessary – but ANet statements regarding the raids being designed only for few. I considered this as a non politically correct attitude – because when talking about sells, ANet took the money from all

Still, the subject of this debate is not if the raids are easy or not and not even if some bosses are doable or not, but: “Why does Lege armor have to be tied to Raids?”

Maybe I’m too stupid, but I cannot find any positive result of this action.

I can agree with your statement here. Being designed for a small portion then tying the legendary armor behind it is a strange goal indeed. Who knows the real reason behind it other than the term most people have come to agree on being “A show of success” or whatever you want to label it as.

My reply to your statement (while being your statement and most would assume directly towards you considering I stated YOU alot xD) is more meant to be a general to anybody who comes with the mindset that it IS too hard and they don’t want to put forth any effort whatsoever. Because while a good amount of you inside this post are coming forward trying to discover the source or reason….I know there’s a few that just want it to be open because they want it to be easy. They don’t want to do Raids because they don’t feel the need to work so hard for it.

I just don’t like people who expect things to just be “handed off” to them or anything like that. While I hope maybe one day, even if its not “Raid legendary Armor”, that casual PVE players/PvP/WvW players may have alternate ways of getting a “different” set of this “legendary armor” or such. I’d still expect this "alternate’ way to be incredibly time consuming and/or difficult, because as I stated, I don’t like things just being “handed out” (no offense to anyone). I’d also want a separate set just to show that "hey, these guys with the raid ones (even while a few amount), took dedication and work in the raids to earn this. While anyone with the “alternate set”, people can still look up to saying “Man they spent so much work and effort to get that its amazing” kind of situation.

Because yes, the old legendary weapons while before were “cool” ways to show off….who knew if somebody actually did the map completion/work to earn it…or if they just “paid” there way to gold to buy it :L (again no offense to anyone who just “buys” a legendary, its cool, you do you. I will admit I have purchased a legendary just because I was too lazy to grind that one out after crafting 2 HoT ones xD)

Anyway point being: Legendary Armor being tied to Raids kind of sucks for those who either A.) Can’t raid or B.) Don’t have the time/skill to do it….but at the same time its meant to show great achievement, which is why I do hope there may be something cool coming for other game modes after the current Legendary Armor is completed, so people can show off their achievements in ways outside of Raids.

Edit: Sorry again for the Edit, I just realized after I posted I’m sorry if parts of this seem jumbled or if I like stated something more than once…I’m reviewing these forums for lulz while I work so I’m kinda off/on when typing these….and easily forget what I’ve said xD Just saying.

I’m willing to go as far as to admit that perhaps ANET should have designed a separate Lege armor for players that they knew wouldn’t be interested in raids. But we’re well passed that point. If they make current raid Lege Armor available to players outside raids it’s not going to be fair to raid players. I started doing raids on the basis of Lege armor can only be acquired by playing raids as it was announced by ANET before HoT release. I put time and effort to get required 150LI, and because it’s limited to raids a lot of people like me concluded it as the ultimate prestige item in GW2.
If you’re going to ask for Lege armor than it would be best to ask for new Lege armor that can be acquired outside raids. You can bet raid players will fight back tooth and nail to prevent any concessions on raid Lege armor. Don’t forget most forum topics are always filled with raid players so you know we have the ability to be loud.

Anka.5086:

Vayne.8563:

Crinn.7864:

Vayne.8563:

I"m not saying it shouldn’t be a component of raids. I’m saying there should be an alternate route besides raids. The raid component wouldn’t have to change at all.

If there was another route to get them, people from all sides would be in here kittening about how “other route” has it easier and how Anet is clearly personally discriminating against them.

As opposed to now when Anet will devote months of resources to something a minority would have. Someone is always going to complain. I’m complaining right now. It doesn’t make me right. It doesn’t make Anet do it.

The question is which group is larger and which, according to Anet has the most valid complaint. Saying we shouldn’t ask for something because another group my complain is pretty much a pointless exercise, because right now, there’s a group that’s complaining.

Deal with the idea that it’s not going to change and start doing raids. We didn’t see any of these topics up until Lege heavy armor trailer was released. Anyone can do raids, it’s not difficult to defeat any of the boss at all. Other players have proven you can 6-man almost every boss with decent gear. All it requires is time and effort. You don’t have that? Tough luck, legendary armor is not for you. It’s the ultimate prestige item in GW2 and it’s not going to be handed like legendary weapon and backpiece candies. Freebie players like yourself will be glad to know lege armor wont be out for another 3-4 months. You have plenty of time to get required 150 LI. Gd Luck.

“The ultimate prestige item.”

Which requires time but not skill. Which anyone can do. The content can be beaten by teams down 4 players. Getting it is, “not difficult at all.”

So, not prestigious at all (according to your description) then.

And this topic has been discussed at length, repeatedly, since before (and since) the official announcement of raids, legendary armor, etc.

There really is no prestige to legendary armor….. After all you can pay gold for raid paths…. How is that different from paying gold for a legendary weapon?

Dashingsteel.3410:

There really is no prestige to legendary armor….. After all you can pay gold for raid paths…. How is that different from paying gold for a legendary weapon?

I mean if you want to pay ~20,000 gold for 6 pieces of armor, be my guest. (Not including any/all other materials needed to craft it, thats just for the 150 LI itself, calculated with “rough” boss prices I’ve seen the past few weeks). There’s no real way to stop this unfortunately. They can make items and such account bound all they want, but you can’t stop someone from “buying” an event.

Astralporing.1957:

I haven’t seen that many complaints about differences between fractal and pvp backpack acquisition method.

That’s because they look different and therefore carry different prestige. If the PvP and Fractal back pieces looked the same, then there would (rightfully) be a lot of complaints about it. The same is true of legendary armor. If they add, hypothetically, a set of legendary armor that one can acquire in WvW, but looks different than the raid set, then no one from the raiding community will mind. I hope they do add more varied acquisition methods for different legendaries of the same type to different game modes! I still want my WvW back piece, and I still want my PvP weapon!

Rising Dusk.2408:

Astralporing.1957:

I haven’t seen that many complaints about differences between fractal and pvp backpack acquisition method.

That’s because they look different and therefore carry different prestige. If the PvP and Fractal back pieces looked the same, then there would (rightfully) be a lot of complaints about it. The same is true of legendary armor. If they add, hypothetically, a set of legendary armor that one can acquire in WvW, but looks different than the raid set, then no one from the raiding community will mind. I hope they do add more varied acquisition methods for different legendaries of the same type to different game modes! I still want my WvW back piece, and I still want my PvP weapon!

I wholeheartedly agree. I also made the exact same point in my previous comments that raiding community will not care if PvP players get separate Lege armor.
The question we should be asking is; Why aren’t they asking for a separate Lege armor that can be obtained outside raids?

When lege precursors were released in almost all forums pretty much majority of non-raid players were saying that they were glad Lege precursor looked bad because now they don’t have to do raids as they don’t really like it. I dare say most likely 90% of them changed their mind after watching Lege heavy armor trailer video. Most raiding community stuck with ANET’s promise to design good looking Lege armor because we knew they have talented devs and they will eventually deliver. We did raids every week for the past 10months without ever getting a glimpse at Lege armor design. Now you expect raiding community to let it go and allow non-raid players to obtain this without going through any of the hassle we did week-in, week-out. No freaking way!

Let me answer that question myself; they’re not asking for a separate Lege armor because they don’t have any guarantee it’s going to be to their liking. Tough luck, it means you have one option; You should start doing raids. Oh, you don’t like raids? Well then lege armor ain’t for you. Move on freebie players. There is nothing to see here.

Anka.5086:

The question we should be asking is; Why aren’t they asking for a separate Lege armor that can be obtained outside raids?

And what, wait 2-3 years for Anet to make it? Thank you, i’ll pass…

Anka.5086:

Let me answer that question myself; they’re not asking for a separate Lege armor because they don’t have any guarantee it’s going to be to their liking.

No. I am not asking for separate Legendary Armor because i doubt Anet would ever do one, and i am certain that even if they did, it would take years. I mean, just look as long this one is in development already.

They should have started working on several sets at the same time. That would have avoided the whole problem (or at least most of it). Unfortunately they didn’t, and now we have to live with the consequences.

Or maybe you’d be willing to wait for Raid armor till the sets for other contents will be developed?

I mean people sell raid runs all the time, so people who don’t actually raid can get legendary armor. This is one of the arguments. Therefore, how is it prestige. You can’t look at the armor and know that someone wasn’t carried through raids.

If the stuff you need from raids would be sellable on the trading post, that would be better, because the game would handle the transaction instead of having to trust your gold to a guild you may or may not know.

At the end of the day though, it can’t be a prestige item if people can buy runs, so there’s no real point in locking it behind raids.

Raiders can’t have it both ways. If it’s a prestige item for the elite, then runs invalidate it anyway. And if raiding is so easy anyone can do it, then it’s not a prestige item in the first place, thus another path to getting the armor is viable.

Vayne.8563:

I mean people sell raid runs all the time, so people who don’t actually raid can get legendary armor. This is one of the arguments. Therefore, how is it prestige. You can’t look at the armor and know that someone wasn’t carried through raids.

If the stuff you need from raids would be sellable on the trading post, that would be better, because the game would handle the transaction instead of having to trust your gold to a guild you may or may not know.

At the end of the day though, it can’t be a prestige item if people can buy runs, so there’s no real point in locking it behind raids.

Raiders can’t have it both ways. If it’s a prestige item for the elite, then runs invalidate it anyway. And if raiding is so easy anyone can do it, then it’s not a prestige item in the first place, thus another path to getting the armor is viable.

If they did that then it’d become even easier to fake LIs since that’s one of the main components.

Astralporing.1957:

Anka.5086:

The question we should be asking is; Why aren’t they asking for a separate Lege armor that can be obtained outside raids?

And what, wait 2-3 years for Anet to make it? Thank you, i’ll pass…

Anka.5086:

Let me answer that question myself; they’re not asking for a separate Lege armor because they don’t have any guarantee it’s going to be to their liking.

No. I am not asking for separate Legendary Armor because i doubt Anet would ever do one, and i am certain that even if they did, it would take years. I mean, just look as long this one is in development already.

They should have started working on several sets at the same time. That would have avoided the whole problem (or at least most of it). Unfortunately they didn’t, and now we have to live with the consequences.

Or maybe you’d be willing to wait for Raid armor till the sets for other contents will be developed?

As raiding community we already did wait for 1 year by the time they actually get released it will be probably be around 1,5 years. If you want Lege armor so badly and you dont care about lege armor representing prestige; why are you so impatient to get it together with the raiding community? Mind you, the only reason it took this long for lege armor was nothing short of bad resource management. From what we understand they didn’t even start on designing legendary armor up until 5-6 months ago. If we look at ANET’s new legendary weapon release time span. It takes them about 4 month to design 1 Legendary weapon. I’m pretty sure next set of legendary armor will probably take less than 6 months.
It still doesn’t justify alienating an entire raiding community just because some players are either too lazy or don’t like doing raids so therefore we should do everything in our power to make them happy. I don’t think it works that way. I like PvP Lege backpiece but I don’t like playing PvP. Do you think it will be fair on PvP players if i get that item outside of PvP? That item will no longer be regarded as prestigious item for PvP and justifiably it will be unfair on players who got that item for representing PvP prestige.

Vayne.8563:

I mean people sell raid runs all the time, so people who don’t actually raid can get legendary armor. This is one of the arguments. Therefore, how is it prestige. You can’t look at the armor and know that someone wasn’t carried through raids.

At the end of the day though, it can’t be a prestige item if people can buy runs, so there’s no real point in locking it behind raids.

You don’t sound like a player who raids. But regardless of that did you look at the price for each boss? 150g/LI per boss. Good luck farming 30,000 gold. If you can generate that much gold than you deserve Lege armor and it will be a good prestige for accomplishing that goal. I doubt 90% GW2 players can generate anywhere near that amount. Jesus! I encourage you to read few books on logical reasoning.

Vayne.8563:

If the stuff you need from raids would be sellable on the trading post, that would be better, because the game would handle the transaction instead of having to trust your gold to a guild you may or may not know.

Nope, again my dear lazy GW2 player. You either work for this ultimate prestige item by playing raids or you will never get it. Just because you have gold or money doesn’t make you a unique flower. Alternatively, you can pass your account to mr. lee from next door. I’m sure you know what i mean.

Vayne.8563:

And if raiding is so easy anyone can do it, then it’s not a prestige item in the first place, thus another path to getting the armor is viable.

The part which makes Lege armor unique is you don’t just go around and craft items. You have to show your skill in raids every week and work towards a goal. Cooperate with team mates to achieve a common goal. Overcome obstacles in unique raid fights. Getting Lege armor is like shouting to everyone in Lions arch that you’re a successful veteran raid player. It’s the same story with PvP League. Lot of players can still get to high ranking by taking advantage of match making. But that doesn’t make other high ranking players in PvP league less prestigious. When I see a player in Lions arch with Lege or Diamon tag I immediately think ‘He must be a good player in PvP’‘. Or even PvP Legendary backpiece.
This Lege armor will be our prestige as raiders. And I repeat; RAIDING IS FAIRLY EASY! I organise successful raids every week on my own since day 1 of raids with pug players. The only challenging part about any PvE content is that initial time period for players to get used to high skill requirement. Once you’re over that barrier the overall skill difficulty never changes. It stays at that level. The problem with players like yourself is you either don’t have the time to do raids to overcome that skill barrier or you’re hardcore PvP and you don’t like PvE content. I also don’t like PvP but I like PvP Lege backpiece. You don’t see me going around in subforums asking for PvP Lege backpiece to be avalaible in PvE content. Because I know it’s a prestige item for good PvP players. Keep in mind that I have Lege PvE backpiece I dont even use it because I don’t like how it looks.

@Anka

When you have close to my AP you can call me lazy. Not enjoying certain content doesn’t make you lazy. Insisting I invest quite a bit of time doing content I don’t enjoy is simply ridiculous for a game company to do.

I came to this game speciifically because raids didn’t exist. I’m not lazy. Nor do I pay to do things I don’t enjoy. Maybe you do. Maybe you go to restaurants you don’t enjoy and order expensive meals. Why would I do that? Why would anyone do that?

So for years, I’ve been able to get top tier rewards. I’ve made 12 legendary weapons. I have three full sets of ascended armor. I have a boatload of ascended weapons and jewelry. I have 32 alts that are level 80. So much for lazy.

It’s so easy to use words like lazy, but this has nothing to do with lazy.

Let’s pretend I hate, really hate map completion. I could do ten points of interest and a couple of waypoints/vistas a day, and eventually at some point, just doing a bit here and a bit there, I can complete the map. Raids aren’t like this.

Raids require some degree of dedication and frustration. I don’t always have time to work at everything all at one time. I have trouble schedule a time where I KNOW I can be somewhere, because I care full time for a disabled person.

Content I can solo or even dungeon or Fractal content doesnt’ require the same kind of dedication in time as a raid. I don’t have to die repeatedly for hours on end until I kill bosses. This is a different ask.

The game has changed from something I’ve been able to put time into and accomplish to something you have to coordinate with 10 other people to accomplish.

I’m glad you think this is okay but I don’t. I’m not lazy if I don’t want to raid, I simply don’t want to invest dedicated play time into something I ultimately find annoying.

Sorry if you can’t see a difference.

And yes I make and sell legendaries I can afford to buy raids.

@Vayne

I apologise for using that word and for some of the inconsiderate things I said. You’re right, this game did change significantly since HoT. Some would say for better, I’m in that group. I suppose ANET should have thought more about casual players like yourself when they designed HoT content. Since in the very beginning their market strategy was to appeal to more casual MMO players. And raid content does require lot of time and effort in the beginning for players to attain necessary experience before they can start doing raids under 2-3hrs. I hope they will soon design a separate Lege armor that’s not hidden behind contents like raids.
Hit me up in game. If you want to do any raids I will be more than happy to add you to my raid run.

Anka.5086:

@Vayne

I apologise for using that word and for some of the inconsiderate things I said. You’re right, this game did change significantly since HoT. Some would say for better, I’m in that group. I suppose ANET should have thought more about casual players like yourself when they designed HoT content. Since in the very beginning their market strategy was to appeal to more casual MMO players. And raid content does require lot of time and effort in the beginning for players to attain necessary experience before they can start doing raids under 2-3hrs. I hope they will soon design a separate Lege armor that’s not hidden behind contents like raids.
Hit me up in game. If you want to do any raids I will be more than happy to add you to my raid run.

I’ve been a strong supporter of HoT in general. I have one HoT legendary already. I’ve completed every single collection in HoT. I own every single tonic and mini from HoT vendors. And I frequently take new players through HoT content, because I find it fun.

The coordination of 10 people, the fact that I live in Australia and often play off hours, the amount of latency I get, and the schedule of a person who can’t keep a regular schedule really works against me raiding regularly.

I really appreciate the offer and I"ll add you when in game. Being around when you raid might be challenging for me.

Anka.5086:

It takes them about 4 month to design 1 Legendary weapon. I’m pretty sure next set of legendary armor will probably take less than 6 months.

They have already mentioned many times how they can design many whole weapon sets in the time it takes them to make a single set of armor. And how making even a normal non-animated and non-glowy armor set can take close to a year. Lege is definitely not a normal set, and takes the problems that make designing normal armor a slow process to a nth degree.

Anka.5086:

It still doesn’t justify alienating an entire raiding community

What, and alienating every non-raider is perfectly fine? I definitely feel alienated right now. In a game that once was designed for players like me.

Anka.5086:

I like PvP Lege backpiece but I don’t like playing PvP. Do you think it will be fair on PvP players if i get that item outside of PvP?

Considering that many PvP players do not consider that backpack to be a prestigious item anyway, and would gladly get rid of “PvE noobs” out of their matches…

Anka.5086:

That item will no longer be regarded as prestigious item for PvP and justifiably it will be unfair on players who got that item for representing PvP prestige.

As i said, it’s not that prestigious even now. And as for the other point… well, i do have it already, and yet i wouldn’t care if another alternative to obtain it got introduced. (besides, let’s wait for the next seasonal year, and the reveal of new method to get it. For all we know we might end up with it being obtainable through another reward track).

Astralporing.1957:

What, and alienating every non-raider is perfectly fine? I definitely feel alienated right now. In a game that once was designed for players like me.

It still is designed for the common player.

You’ve just chosen willingly or otherwise not to do this content. Unless you’re somehow saying the common player is too inept to do basic problem solving or moving or listening, or heck just putting finger to keyboard in general.

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

What, and alienating every non-raider is perfectly fine? I definitely feel alienated right now. In a game that once was designed for players like me.

It still is designed for the common player.

You’ve just chosen willingly or otherwise not to do this content. Unless you’re somehow saying the common player is too inept to do basic problem solving or moving or listening, or heck just putting finger to keyboard in general.

It is not. Raids were advertised with “Buckets of tears”, I read that with my on eyes when they were announced. Some joker in higher management probably looked at stagnating numbers and convinced the other higher ups that raids were needed instead of a game for the casual player with open world updates and dungeons to get some share of the raid group. Something does not have to be difficult to be interesting, it can have an intersting background for that example. But this requires imagination, so it is of course harder to make.

Just because you are good at something you like does not mean that everyone can or wants to do it like you. Plenty of people do things they love but suck doing it, it´s just having a hobby. Most people probably have relatives or are guilty themselves of playing a sport or something like chess despite being overweight, lazy or unsuited for it and still having a blast while doing it.

If you want to be a professional in your hobby, good for you. I personally see no need to be a pro in one of my hobbies and train intensively for it.

TexZero.7910

You’ve just chosen willingly or otherwise not to do this content. Unless you’re somehow saying the common player is too inept to do basic problem solving or moving or listening, or heck just putting finger to keyboard in general.

Well, according to ANet statements, the raids are not for the common player. The raids are designed for only a small portion of the community. Don’t forget this not only a single second. If you can do raids that does not mean everybody can do it.

As a side note.
HoT failed to deliver almost everything it advertises before sale: A full set of legendary weapons – failed. Raids – well, after one year from launch we still wait for the raid to be completed – another failure. Legendary Armors in HoT !! Buy it for Legendary Armors!! After one year we have rumors that maybe in less than 6 months we will have the armors – another failure until now. The examples can continue.

And now the funny part comes: By speaking again and again about the ANet statement that raids are designed to be completed by only a small portion of the community, in fact I defend here the only aspect where HoT meets the declarations :-)). I defend it against the rants of some players stating that the raids are so easy that everybody can complete one. Or 150. If this vocal minority is right, that means the only aspect of HoT respecting the initial promises is a failure too. Turning HoT in a 100% failure.

I’m a little bit worried – I don’t want a White Knight label because of my efforts (only in this debate) to defend HoT.

Cristalyan.5728:

TexZero.7910

You’ve just chosen willingly or otherwise not to do this content. Unless you’re somehow saying the common player is too inept to do basic problem solving or moving or listening, or heck just putting finger to keyboard in general.

Well, according to ANet statements, the raids are not for the common player. The raids are designed for only a small portion of the community. Don’t forget this not only a single second. If you can do raids that does not mean everybody can do it.

As a side note.
HoT failed to deliver almost everything it advertises before sale: A full set of legendary weapons – failed. Raids – well, after one year from launch we still wait for the raid to be completed – another failure. Legendary Armors in HoT !! Buy it for Legendary Armors!! After one year we have rumors that maybe in less than 6 months we will have the armors – another failure until now. The examples can continue.

And now the funny part comes: By speaking again and again about the ANet statement that raids are designed to be completed by only a small portion of the community, in fact I defend here the only aspect where HoT meets the declarations :-)). I defend it against the rants of some players stating that the raids are so easy that everybody can complete one. Or 150. If this vocal minority is right, that means the only aspect of HoT respecting the initial promises is a failure too. Turning HoT in a 100% failure.

I’m a little bit worried – I don’t want a White Knight label because of my efforts (only in this debate) to defend HoT.

Actually the examples can’t continue. The list of what it said it provided and provided is far longer than the list of what it doesn’t provide.

It promised one raid wing and that one raid wing was delivered. Legendary Weapons (the full set) and armor it has not delivered on, but it did deliver the mastery system, 9 specializations, a new profession, two guild halls, and the living story has started again. It also gave us new zones, new story and new metas.

Saying it didn’t deliver all of what it promised it true. But it certainly did deliver most of what it promised.

As for raids, it delivered what was promised and those raids were well received.

I just wish Anet would actually tell us how many people by percentage actually raid.

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

What, and alienating every non-raider is perfectly fine? I definitely feel alienated right now. In a game that once was designed for players like me.

It still is designed for the common player.

On the contrary, by the official dev statements it is not.

Vayne.8563:

Insisting I invest quite a bit of time doing content I don’t enjoy is simply ridiculous for a game company to do.

This right here is the problem in a nutshell. No one is forcing you to do this content, it’s completely optional. You won’t gain anything that you can’t simply acquire in the game right now other than a cosmetic skin.

Now the problem isn’t with you or anyone else with this mentality. It’s Anet’s fault that this mentality became a normal state of the game.
For several years Anet has designed it so that you can pretty much get anything you like in the game as long as you put a little effort. This was same with the difficulty that was measured by dungeons and to some later extent fractals.

Then Anet did something drastic. They changed all this in HoT with a loud boom. Rather than doing a smooth transition to this new gameplay they had in mind, they just dropped a huge bomb on the community and expected it to change over a week.

Now we suddenly had Raids, rewards that wasn’t acquirable by everyone and so on. So now we have two different ways conflicting with each other. The mentality that they burned into us for several years with a gameplay that goes completely against that.

Now the solution is easier said than done. The community as a whole needs to simply adapt to the new path Anet has chosen. Many has already done this but many hasn’t either.
All the content is there, nothing is locked (assuming you have full game obviously). Just change your mentality that if you don’t like doing certain content, that you won’t get its rewards and that’s perfectly fine. You don’t need to do it. The rewards are not something you need and can progress just fine in the game without it. Especially when the main reward is just something cosmetic.

Guild Wars 2 has always been about ‘Do what you enjoy doing’. It’s as simple as that. Play what you enjoy playing. Everything you need to do to get the best gear is there in many optional ways as it is.

Blackwyn.8127:

Vayne.8563:

Insisting I invest quite a bit of time doing content I don’t enjoy is simply ridiculous for a game company to do.

This right here is the problem in a nutshell. No one is forcing you to do this content, it’s completely optional. You won’t gain anything that you can’t simply acquire in the game right now other than a cosmetic skin.

Now the problem isn’t with you or anyone else with this mentality. It’s Anet’s fault that this mentality became a normal state of the game.
For several years Anet has designed it so that you can pretty much get anything you like in the game as long as you put a little effort. This was same with the difficulty that was measured by dungeons and to some later extent fractals.

Then Anet did something drastic. They changed all this in HoT with a loud boom. Rather than doing a smooth transition to this new gameplay they had in mind, they just dropped a huge bomb on the community and expected it to change over a week.

Now we suddenly had Raids, rewards that wasn’t acquirable by everyone and so on. So now we have two different ways conflicting with each other. The mentality that they burned into us for several years with a gameplay that goes completely against that.

Now the solution is easier said than done. The community as a whole needs to simply adapt to the new path Anet has chosen. Many has already done this but many hasn’t either.
All the content is there, nothing is locked (assuming you have full game obviously). Just change your mentality that if you don’t like doing certain content, that you won’t get its rewards and that’s perfectly fine. You don’t need to do it. The rewards are not something you need and can progress just fine in the game without it. Especially when the main reward is just something cosmetic.

Guild Wars 2 has always been about ‘Do what you enjoy doing’. It’s as simple as that. Play what you enjoy playing. Everything you need to do to get the best gear is there in many optional ways as it is.

Ok I see lets tell arena net to take the legendary armor out of the raid rewards then since all you seem to want is a skin they can slap that together easier so they will be happy.
This new legendary that transforms should be put on hold untill all game modes get their own versions.
You will be happy with that right?

Edit
3 expansions later and we are still waiting for legendary armors, that would be funny

Blackwyn.8127:

Guild Wars 2 has always been about ‘Do what you enjoy doing’. It’s as simple as that. Play what you enjoy playing.

Exclusive rewards that are there to entice people to play the content to get them, even if they do not enjoy said content, say that this isn’t as simple as you make it.

Blackwyn.8127:

Now the solution is easier said than done. The community as a whole needs to simply adapt to the new path Anet has chosen.

As you mentioned, it’s something you can say easily, but not something that actually happens. Make too big a change, and the community, instead of adapting, just leaves. Remember SWG NGE case? All the community needed to do then for the game to stay strong was to adapt to the changes. Ufortunately for Sony, community didn’t think it was a good solution.