Guild Wars 2

The forum is broken again. It’s broken so many times, Hollywood made a movie about it.

Selected quotes from the movie: Guild Wars 2. The Thread that ate the Forum

Hudson: [after the forum crashes] That’s great, this is really kitten great, man. Now, what the kitten are we supposed to do? We’re in some pretty kitten now, man.
Hicks: [Grabs him by the shirt] Are you finished?
Newt: Guess we’re not gonna make any more posts, are we?
Ripley: I’m sorry, Newt.
Newt: Don’t be sorry, it wasn’t your fault.
Hudson: That’s it, man. Guild Wars 2 is over, man. Game over, what the kitten are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?

Ripley: How long after the forum is declared completely broken can we expect a fix?
Hicks: [pause] Seventeen years.
Hudson: Seventeen years? Hey man, I don’t wanna rain on your parade, but we’re not gonna last seventeen hours! Those posts are gonna come in here just like they did before. And they’re gonna come in here…
Ripley: Hudson!

Vasquez: [after barely surviving the Forum surprise failure] Okay. We have several forum coders on hand. I say we go back in there and recode the whole kitten mess.
Hicks: It’s worth the try, but we don’t know if that’s gonna affect it.
Hudson: Let’s just bug out and call it even, man! What are we even talking about this for?
Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire forum from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Burke: Hold on a second. This forum has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
Ripley: They can bill me.
Burke: Okay, I know this is an emotional moment for all of us. I know that. But let’s not make snap judgments, please. This is clearly an important forum we’re dealing with and I don’t think that you or I, or anybody, has the right to arbitrarily terminate it.
Ripley: Wrong.
Vasquez: Yeah, watch us.

Justine.6351:

So people would be opposed to flying creatures attacking them and trying to drive them out of the sky to a falling death? Honestly I would expect this in HoT. Maybe I am wrong.

As for smashing 1-5 and taking forever to kill stuff underwater type comments. Maybe get a decent weapon for underwater? Maybe learn what underwater skills even do? Mesmer, warrior, ranger are the 3 classes I’ve had any practice underwater with and they kill pretty fast but I generally run glass stats so I don’t know how some of the softer hitting classes like guardian would feel like in say knights gear or worse, clerics.

Most of the professions are great underwater (necros are insane there, so are engies/mesmers, and the rest are more than capable i think). But people just dont seem to like it, like for ex. the aquatic ruins fractal is practically faster than doing swamp, but people will sit there for 20 minutes rerolling until they get swamp just to avoid it.

Its not without its bugs/annoyances, but i still find it fun even though theres like no content worth doing underwater once you have map completion. Maybe people will like gliding enough that the expansion after this one will have more of it

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Kravick.4906:

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

That’s actually not true.

Kinda, they also removed underwater map from pvp if you dont remember.

I love underwater combat but not a fan of flying. If i wanted to fly i would play World of Warplanes.

People are such babies about underwater combat. If you’ve got exotic weapons and a level 80 aquabreather (I’m amazed by how many people even in my own guild don’t bother with this!), it’s just fine. A little rough if you’re a thief or an elementalist, maybe, but everything else works great underwater.

They do need to fix that charge attack sharks do so it doesn’t hit an entire body length ahead of the shark’s model, though. Only hitbox in the game buggier than the charging teragriffs.

Quite simply people don’t like being forced onto yet another weapon that they don’t use on land, and that is what underwater does. Nobody knows the underwater skills, it’s just press all the buttons and hope something dies. There is to few content to really learn you to play underwater.

Fox.3469:

Quite simply people don’t like being forced onto yet another weapon that they don’t use on land, and that is what underwater does. Nobody knows the underwater skills, it’s just press all the buttons and hope something dies. There is to few content to really learn you to play underwater.

Smh…

Underwater was fun but had severe limitations on how you can run your build. You only had max 2 weapon choices and tons of utility choices are disabled underwater.

Essentially underwater combat isn’t fleshed out. I enjoy being underwater, myself.

Gliding adds a strategy and thought process to the game that underwater doesn’t. I have X number of seconds, what can I get to. It’s more like a puzzle. Underwater stuff doesn’t really give you that.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

People are such babies about underwater combat. If you’ve got exotic weapons and a level 80 aquabreather (I’m amazed by how many people even in my own guild don’t bother with this!), it’s just fine. A little rough if you’re a thief or an elementalist, maybe, but everything else works great underwater.

They do need to fix that charge attack sharks do so it doesn’t hit an entire body length ahead of the shark’s model, though. Only hitbox in the game buggier than the charging teragriffs.

Ele is actually very strong underwater too if you go into water attunement and use it correctly. :p

Speaking with an underwater legendary and exotic berserker waterbreather as an Engineer, I can say I laugh in the face of underwater content but it’s certainly no where near as fun as land.

Underwater combat and exploration are fine as concepts and dare I say it, in gw2, but the problem is that they haven’t yet created challenging and interesting content involving the underwater zones. A future expansion focusing on underwater zones has the potential to further push the mmo genre. It’s risky but I believe there is room for innovation and GW2 is capable of making that push.

Because as many have pointed out Underwater combat wasn’t very good at launch and it has only gotten progressively worse and more broken as time goes on

Zhaneel.9208:

Underwater combat and exploration are fine as concepts and dare I say it, in gw2, but the problem is that they haven’t yet created challenging and interesting content involving the underwater zones. A future expansion focusing on underwater zones has the potential to further push the mmo genre. It’s risky but I believe there is room for innovation and GW2 is capable of making that push.

No thanks.

I’d rather anet focus on land…. underwater has no push into MMO genre lol…

That would be suicide if anet focused an xpansion on underwater crap.

Theres plenty of innovation they can do on land where its much better to create content…. underwater is completely irrelevant and a waste of resources, which is why anet has pretty much all but abandoned underwater crap

SkiTz.4590:

Zhaneel.9208:

Underwater combat and exploration are fine as concepts and dare I say it, in gw2, but the problem is that they haven’t yet created challenging and interesting content involving the underwater zones. A future expansion focusing on underwater zones has the potential to further push the mmo genre. It’s risky but I believe there is room for innovation and GW2 is capable of making that push.

No thanks.

I’d rather anet focus on land…. underwater has no push into MMO genre lol…

That would be suicide if anet focused an xpansion on underwater crap.

Theres plenty of innovation they can do on land where its much better to create content…. underwater is completely irrelevant and a waste of resources, which is why anet has pretty much all but abandoned underwater crap

Then you might as well quit now, because there will be no choice but to go underwater when it’s time to fight the Deep Sea Dragon…and it does have it’s place in MMO’s, if people knew how to handle the spatial 3D realm. It’s not that hard, I’ve seen people complain they can’t judge distance, location, etc.,…well then, I imagine those same people can’t drive very well either, since they can’t judge distance, location or any other spatial places around them. It’s simple, pick a landmark, and use that as your measuring stick…it works on land, air and underwater…but you need to unwrap your mind from around a 2D space and think in 3D, which is quite simple.

Zaklex.6308:

SkiTz.4590:

Zhaneel.9208:

Underwater combat and exploration are fine as concepts and dare I say it, in gw2, but the problem is that they haven’t yet created challenging and interesting content involving the underwater zones. A future expansion focusing on underwater zones has the potential to further push the mmo genre. It’s risky but I believe there is room for innovation and GW2 is capable of making that push.

No thanks.

I’d rather anet focus on land…. underwater has no push into MMO genre lol…

That would be suicide if anet focused an xpansion on underwater crap.

Theres plenty of innovation they can do on land where its much better to create content…. underwater is completely irrelevant and a waste of resources, which is why anet has pretty much all but abandoned underwater crap

Then you might as well quit now, because there will be no choice but to go underwater when it’s time to fight the Deep Sea Dragon…and it does have it’s place in MMO’s, if people knew how to handle the spatial 3D realm. It’s not that hard, I’ve seen people complain they can’t judge distance, location, etc.,…well then, I imagine those same people can’t drive very well either, since they can’t judge distance, location or any other spatial places around them. It’s simple, pick a landmark, and use that as your measuring stick…it works on land, air and underwater…but you need to unwrap your mind from around a 2D space and think in 3D, which is quite simple.

No thanks, I’ll quit when anet actually says “we will be focusing on underwater stuff now”… until than, all your underwater theory is pointless…. its not even remotely close to coming live to GW2 anytime soon.

I actually like underwater stuff, it adds a feeling of mystery and enchantment that there’s all kinds of stuff to see there too, like ruins and coral and all that. Hey, I like exploring. :p

Usually in online RPG’s I’ve seen underwater combat be exactly like land combat but with added kind-of-swimming, here it actually feels completely different, like it should!

Underwater takes people out of their comfort zone. Especially people who rely on cookie cutter builds who can’t adapt.

Personally I’m as happy underwater as out of it.

This thread boils down to “This is my opinion and that is your opinion. My opinion is better”. You think gliding is the same as underwater, that’s great! Other people prefer gliding because underwater combat is generally unbalanced. There is no need to scoff at their valid responses an act like your opinion is superior. Most pointless thread I’ve seen in awhile.

SkiTz.4590:

Zhaneel.9208:

Underwater combat and exploration are fine as concepts and dare I say it, in gw2, but the problem is that they haven’t yet created challenging and interesting content involving the underwater zones. A future expansion focusing on underwater zones has the potential to further push the mmo genre. It’s risky but I believe there is room for innovation and GW2 is capable of making that push.

No thanks.

I’d rather anet focus on land…. underwater has no push into MMO genre lol…

That would be suicide if anet focused an xpansion on underwater crap.

Theres plenty of innovation they can do on land where its much better to create content…. underwater is completely irrelevant and a waste of resources, which is why anet has pretty much all but abandoned underwater crap

This is the kind of backwards thinking that creators should ignore. You can’t innovate if you don’t try and simply giving up on underwater content pretty much proves you’d not be very creative with other means of world expansion and exploration but also willingly waste resources on an idea you’re too timid to follow through with.

There’s plenty of ways to expand on underwater content, both combat and exploration wise. Put in more stuff like undercurrents, tides, whirlpools, underwater caverns, waves and other things to make water exploration more dynamic. Depth gauges, light variation, submarines and more.

My only issue with underwater content is that they haven’t blended it more seamlessly to the rest of the world. And the problem is many hecklers will shoot down any attempts to expand underwater content, even if it’s alright.

I personally love underwater contents (especially how it’s designed in the fractal level). There’s a good base, but it’s not polished right now.
As people say, the problem is balance.

Basically, the builds we choose for normal combats are transfered directly to underwater content, but it’s not compatible. Same for the skills.

What would be great, would be to add a totally independant trait and skill system specifically for underwater content. Everytime our character jump into the water, we automatically switch from on land trait system/skills to underwater build.
Would even be cool if we had a totally new independant equipment system too.

All this would make up for a good underwater expansion.

I for one couldn’t care less about gliding and would love more real underwater content.

Kravick.4906:

No one likes underwater combat in this game because its horribly, horribly unbalanced. Every single balance pass we’ve had in this game has completely ignored underwater skills. As a result, you have some classes that can basically blow through it without blinking, and other classes who are woefully underpowered.

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

You’re forgetting the legendary aquaman patch rangers got shortly after launch. But yes, underwater combat (in general) is bad and developers should feel bad about including it in their games.

I don’t mind underwater combat being slower than on land, because water is kind of thicker than air. A weapon isn’t going to move anywhere near as fast as a weapon on land does. The problems I have with it is the same as others have stated. Its not fully fleshed out and it is horribly balanced.

In addition to fixing the balance problems, Anet needs to make every skill usable underwater, and should also have what TabooTrinket mentioned, a separate system of traits and skills specifically for underwater content. New skills don’t necessarily need to be created, but every existing skills needs to be convertible to underwater use in some way.

Using the Ranger for example, they can’t use traps and some survival skills underwater because they depend on having a solid surface for the animation and depend on the surface for the skill coverage. The simple solution would be to change the animation. Entangle, instead of generating entangling vines at the enemy locations could instead generate masses of entangling seaweed. Muddy Terrain could generate a spherical area of muddy water around the Ranger and either have the same effects as on land or have different ones just for underwater. Traps could work like an invisible underwater mine, and when a player or enemy comes in contact with the trap, it generates a spherical area with whatever effect the original trap had.

Since there is likely a future expansion that is going to be nothing but underwater combat (there is a deep sea dragon afterall), and we know how, if anything, motivated, Anet is about distinguishing themselves from other MMO developers by being different, its only a matter of time before they actually do something about this awful mess. The only thing I’m worried about is that, that expansion could be years away, and until then, underwater is going to continued to be ignored and neglected (kind of like how Rangers and Engineers feel now on any terrain.)

I am excited for both, I love water combat personally. Some proffs absolutely could be improved underwater, some like ranger, necro, mesmer and engie are absolutely amazing underwater.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be water in the bottom of the map we saw in beta. If you fell below the poison field and looked up the waterfalls look exactly like they do when they hit the air water interface in a normal map. Could just be a graphics thing in beta, but if not it will be interesting to see what they change combat wise for the expansion release.

Because it’s horribly unbalanced, not fully implemented (some utilities are simply blocked out / missing gear options for aqua-breathers) & confusing since distances are almost impossible to guestimate, making it impossible to properly position yourself to all times IN A GAME WHICH COMBAT SYSTEM IS DESIGNED AROUND POSITIONING.

I mean, it would be kinda easy to make underwater combat viable:

- Introduce proper gear choices for aqua-breathers.
As far as I know they actually working on it, adding exotic & ascended aqua-breathers, available for fractal relics.

- Split our trait-interface in 2 parts, allowing us to trait for land & underwater combat separately.
The most important point on the list since some utilities are blocked off. You definitively need the ability to trait for your normal land-mode as much as your limited, and therefore different, underwater mode.

- Rebalance all underwater utilities / weaponskills / Downstate-skills
Some classes have a way too easy time in underwater combat, while others are completely useless. If they want their underwater portion of the game to shine, they need to revisit their balancing pretty intensively.

One thing can never be fixed, tho:
The missing depth perception. The only way to lessen the issue at least is to make sure that PvE encounters are never too punishing on the positioning part. And that will make any PvE encounter “too easy” by default.

Underwater:
- Slow, too slow
- no balance between classes, less dmg, even with zerker
- Camera, control, overview in a 3D combat is kittening bad
- Kraits…
- needs to accelerate when starting to move
- some mobs have too much life(fracs)
- I hate underwater in general
- Everything is blue lol

Gliding:
- Fast and fun
- no combat
- shortcuts using gliding
- take no dmg when jumping down a cliff and use the gliding before landing
- feeling of flying/gliding is better than swimming
- max speed at the beginning
- same control as in land, with no 3D, cause no control of going up and down
- better exploration
- clear view
- skins for gliding
- less obstacle

hopefully there will be an udnerwater expansion like a lost city of atlantis or sorts

Why did they disable so many skills for underwater? For example, the Necro utility skills minions can be underwater, but the elite minion can’t. The same for the ele elite skills that have a minion. Why is that even in game? The reason why they did certain things is baffling.