Guild Wars 2

I wanted to make this post to see exacly what people are fearing for buying the expansion before/when HoT releases. And what would sway them to do otherwise.

This is my list;

-Fear of not enough ‘fun to do’ content. Where mostly youll just grind events with no interesting unique ways to play, just allot of “kill X mobs event with zergs”

-Fear of raids not being fun enough to do, after having seen some streamers raid, The content looks challenging, but it feels like the combat system isnt being used at all, just ‘steps’ to complete content and then press autoattack and burst button. (this might be wrong if i just happened to have seen the wrong streamer tho. And it might generally be too early to tell.)

-Fear of generally speaking stalemates of months with no events like we’ve had untill now untill HoT releases. And most of the content is cleared very quickly like the core game is.

-My main proffesion Elementalist seeing heavy nerfs around the board whilst not getting a sword elite spec (Yes this is also on the list because i hate warhorn as a weapon, the aesthetic, the way its used/has been used in the past. And the tempest being a support aswell as its predecesor)

-P2W. Asin people who own the core game are actually all just playing a free trial, untill they upgrade to HoT. Where elite specs are stronger in PvP(chronomancers shatter build is a good example). Objectives in WvW are super important but cant be used by core game owners. In general feeling weaker then the rest because you didnt buy the expansion.

What would make me buy the expansion.

-Seeing raids are worthwhile, not just cleaving but actuall requirments of individual skill and mastery of the proffesion you are currently playing (Like being forced to bring allot X class for a raid because he needs to clear something on his own, idk something like it. lol). Not just do X at Y time with the entire group at the same time.

-Reducing the Zerg aspect of the expansion. I personally feel zerg content doesnt really immerse me at all, running like a train over everything very goal orientated. It gives me the feeling im forced to play to be the fastest very technical. Doesnt feel like im actually playing the character in the world of Tyria.

-News about Elite specs being added frequently after the innitial launch

-Diversity in elite specs vs core specs. I dont mind buying the expansion, but if im going to be forced to play elite specs everywhere from the challenging group content to PvP because its more effective, gating me into something i might not enjoy to play, then thats a dealbreaker for me.

-Frequent balance patches! Yes! This has been on the top of my list for quite some time. Everytime something good happens in a balance patch i purchase some gems to encourage it. Im afraid i wont really make the income graphs change by myself. But atleast i feel good about giving my money to where hard work was due!

What has been announced so far doesn’t seem like enough content to justify kitten expansion. I didn’t even pay that much for the base game, which had way more to do.

If the price was a bit lower I’d buy it, or if there was more actual content announced.

It is less content than any other AAA MMO expansion.
AAA MMO expansions cost 40$.

50$ for less content than 40$ normally gets me? No thank you.

It also doesn’t hurt that the class additions have been pretty disappointing.

DragonHunter traps are awful. Everything about tempest is awful. Celestial Avatar is so far away from what I think of (and what was previewed) when I think of Ranger or Druids that its just heartbreaking, and now in group situations I’m likely going to get harassed for not using it. Its a giant thematic change for the worse and it looks like it belongs on Guardians. Ascended gear is now mandatory for raids.

Yeah, whole bunch of not good.

On the upside, the new WvW map is free and they supposedly are going to start caring about WvW. I won’t believe it till i see it, but its uplifting none the less.

Like a fool, I bought it. From what I’ve seen so far, I wish I had waited.

I’ve been playing MMO’s since 2005. In my opinion player trends have become more cautious after several games failed shortly after launch, unpopular game changes, and an uptick in micro management throughout the industry which turns many players off. This is not a GW2 issue your witnessing. Its just consumers becoming naturally weary after a long history of let downs.

They are waiting to see, as I wish I would have done. But I had just purchased the game before the new changes were implemented and loved it…So far I’m seeing it get further and further away from what I liked about GW2 in all honesty.

Cos Black Desert beta is out in 9 days.
I would rather invest my money in another “new and unique” game, instead of one that im playing atm and dissapoints me regularly.

Because wildstar is f2p and in wow i no longer pay for a sub because i farm enough gold every month to buy a wow tokken and dont pay real money to play.

I would have preordered by now, but the secret world was half price this past week and I could not resist.

I’ll get it on or just before launch, because guild halls and legendary mastery. I think my wife will wait until the price is reduced before the holiday sales.

I feel either way the living story content Arenanet has put forth since launch is worth the expansion money. I know Anet is creative and the developers have a lot of passion for this game even if Heart of Thorns seems that it does not contain enough content to be “expansion worthy” I know there are still newer living stories and events to follow. I’m not saying I agree with every choice they make all I’m saying is that they continue to impress me so we should all wait and see.

I’ve been a gamer long enough I don’t pre-order anything. I don’t do betas either and that’s usually the only real selling point of pre-orders.

Pre-ordering is usually pretty anti-consumer. I have no proble buying the finished product once reviews are out and it’s clear that the content (amount as well as quality) justifies the higher than average price tag but for now; why would I buy something that I don’t have all the information about?

After games like watch_dogs, unity, dragon age 3 and many others people should really know by now how ridiculous the concept of preordering the digital copy of a game is.
Holding the beta ransom isn’t going to help either – would have loved to test out berserker but $$$ is more important than letting players with years of experience playtest new content/classes it seems.

Raven.9603:

It is less content than any other AAA MMO expansion.
AAA MMO expansions cost 40$.

50$ for less content than 40$ normally gets me? No thank you.

I don’t understand why anytime people try to compare costs they never use the full context.

Other AAA games also usually have a sub fee, which is almost always $12-15. So yea GW2 has ahigher upfront cost, but You never have to pay for anything again after that.

I bought the game for $50 3 years ago and have maybe spent $30 in the game store since. If I had been playing a more traditional MMO then my expenses would have been hundreds of dollars.

Make your point if you must, but don’t leave out context to skew an argument.

Was in the first Beta test and didn’t like what I saw, plus the cost.

But Shadey, you have to pay xxxx and pay a monthly fee from other mmo’s. (see this argument a lot)

Look I don’t care what other people do with their hard earned money on other mmo’s that is their business, but it seemed to me that monthly fees were the biggest con ever! I f I was going to be asked to pay monthly, I would NOT be playing—-period!

But, but, you are supporting anet by buying it.

Look I have played every day since launch. It was a blast. I payed for that entertainment and in return myself, like countless others have supported GW2, by helping others and being part of the GW2 experience. An MMO is after all, nothing without its players.

To put it into context, I have played ALL of GW1, and purchased/played ALL of the associated expansions, which were fantastic for the time

However, my customer loyalty only goes so far, and to be perfectly honest has been stretched mightily thin on occasion over the past three years. So I guess Im saying, when it comes out, I may, or may not buy it, I’m really on the fence at the moment. But what will not change my mind is any rhetoric or petty arguments to change it.

I want a boxed copy

1. Balance patches are not often enough
2. Balance team is biased
3. Many class weapon/trait issues are ignored for ages and never get solved

With above its hard to justify putting more money into this game

4. New elite specs are anti consumer seeing how they are stronger (instead of being on par) than core specs making this P2W.
5. Elite spec for my class is widely acknowledged by community(and me) as unimaginative, boring and contradicting core class mechanics.(Guess which one it is)
6. Still feel screwed by anet bundling core game into expansion.

Q:“Why havnt you bought HoT yet?”

A: Because I won’t buy it at all.
Raids…cough cough. Masteries levels…specializations…what is more, the trailer mention of new infusions.
Everything sounds like timesink, not content.

In all honesty, after that thing happened with manifesto…there were very few chances I’d throw other money in gw2.
And this chance has been used in the wrongest way.
I’ll still give a look at the news and follow what happens for some months after launch, but except for the impossibile case that: full set ascended become easily available (days) for anyone with any kind of gameplay (not just crafting), masteries can be maxed out in hours and there is no grindy requirements for completing raids, in addition to my skill, a whole afternoon/evening at home and my party’s…my ssd won’t see gw2 again.

The easiest reason why I didn’t preorder the game is because there’s no preorder bonus As for buying it after release, there’s two main reasons I’m going to hold off.

1. There’s to many other good games out there today + new ones coming out soon. It’s difficult to spend time in GW2 when there’s just so much great variety out there.

2. Using living story as a historic metric, any new release from Anet is met with huge popularity. With popularity comes overly populated areas and lag. The Modrem Invasion event not long ago was absolutely crazy. There was no enjoyment, it was just a grunt rush to tag mobs before they melted. I played the event once and never returned. I fully expect HoT to be similar upon release, so it makes sense to wait a few months to let the hype die down before playing and actually enjoying the content.

Kevan.8912:

Q:“Why havnt you bought HoT yet?”

A: Because I won’t buy it at all.
Raids…cough cough. Masteries levels…specializations…what is more, the trailer mention of new infusions.
Everything sounds like timesink, not content.

In all honesty, after that thing happened with manifesto…there were very few chances I’d throw other money in gw2.
And this chance has been used in the wrongest way.
I’ll still give a look at the news and follow what happens for some months after launch, but except for the impossibile case that: full set ascended become easily available (days) for anyone with any kind of gameplay (not just crafting), masteries can be maxed out in hours and there is no grindy requirements for completing raids, in addition to my skill, a whole afternoon/evening at home and my party’s…my ssd won’t see gw2 again.

You have been very active on the forums for someone uninterested in playing the game.

Four maps.

FOUR MAPS.

I don’t care if they’re replayable and content-dense. FOUR. MAPS.

Also, a dramatically low number of new skills. After 3 years of waiting, they give us a whopping 6 utility skills and, like, 2 to 8 weapon skills per profession. Any new content is gonna get dull super fast since the core gameplay (your skillbar) will be nearly identical.

1. Because I no longer believe in paying to test content for ANet.
2. Because I no longer believe ANet — which offered a lot of the core game to my play-style — wants to offer content I’m interested in.
3. Because of my nine characters, two are Eles; I dislike the warhorn play-style; and Overcharge sounds and looks like a mechanic that will not support my preferred ways to play the class.
4. Because Druid and Dragon-Hunter scratch itches I don’t have.
5. Because Reaper uses slow attacks in a quasi-action game.
6. Because the other four Elite specs are not sufficient value by themselves to justify the price.
7. Because HoT as a season pass has yet to demonstrate any value, and won’t until the nature of LWS3 becomes apparent.
8. Because I preferred the core zones to DT and SW, and do not yet know if HoT zones are cut/pastes with minor mods of DT/SW-style play.

I’ll buy it when it’s 20-30$ because that’s what it’s worth with so little content

Bean Muncher.5197:

Four maps.

FOUR MAPS.

I don’t care if they’re replayable and content-dense. FOUR. MAPS.

Also, a dramatically low number of new skills. After 3 years of waiting, they give us a whopping 6 utility skills and, like, 2 to 8 weapon skills per profession. Any new content is gonna get dull super fast since the core gameplay (your skillbar) will be nearly identical.

This expansion hasn’t been in development for 3 years. They initially had no plans to actually do a traditional expansion.

I’d be surprised its been in development for even one full year

I haven’t pre-purchased HoT yet. I have been playing mmos for a while and when I was younger ludonarrative dissonance never bothered me because I didn’t respect mmo worlds as a world and many older mmos made an effort to avoid ludonarrative dissonance. Now that I am mumble mumble years old, I can’t not notice ludonarrative dissonance. My most commonly played mmo lately has been EVE. I don’t mind paying.

Imo, GW2 has a very high level of ludonarrative dissonance. I would pre-purchase HoT if I had confidence that the LW would increase narrative resonance. There is room in my home instance for Tyrian refugees, room for an interactive NPC economy, room for RPG elements, room for something else besides a wardrobe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative

Kormeg.2469:

You have been very active on the forums for someone uninterested in playing the game.

Probably because the forum is much, much more fun than the game itself
It’s my right as a possessor of the game.
In fact, I logged a pair of times in the last.. 9,10months?
And I never said I’m not interested in the game: I’m not interested in playing THIS game, because of what it has become and is going to

Bean Muncher.5197:

Four maps.

FOUR MAPS.

I don’t care if they’re replayable and content-dense. FOUR. MAPS.

Also, a dramatically low number of new skills. After 3 years of waiting, they give us a whopping 6 utility skills and, like, 2 to 8 weapon skills per profession. Any new content is gonna get dull super fast since the core gameplay (your skillbar) will be nearly identical.

what you get 6 utility skills with what profession?

I would say alittle over a year for this expansion yea. Some stuff might have been worked on to go in as living story but get bunced up into expansion instead.

Zenatsu.2930:

I’ll buy it when it’s 20-30$ because that’s what it’s worth with so little content

and then pay 200 gems for each living story you have missed good luck with that

The expansion itself has very little to do with the fact that I do not want to give any money to them ever again.

I don’t care for their direction though, all the gating of things and this progression whatever that is. I don’t like it.

Traced.3495:

The expansion itself has very little to do with the fact that I do not want to give any money to them ever again.

I don’t care for their direction though, all the gating of things and this progression whatever that is. I don’t like it.

Can you elaborate your point further? Apart from raids, which really aren’t gated, what are you referring to?

Because, in my opinion, nothing about HoT revealed to date is worth spending money on.

Kormeg.2469:

Traced.3495:

The expansion itself has very little to do with the fact that I do not want to give any money to them ever again.

I don’t care for their direction though, all the gating of things and this progression whatever that is. I don’t like it.

Can you elaborate your point further? Apart from raids, which really aren’t gated, what are you referring to?

I don’t particularly know too many details, happened I today read that masteries require a story quest, which in my books is gating (quest type). And while my thoughts about the game and expansion are what they are this got me even more down.
Then, I haven’t forgotten the NPE which added level gating to things that used not to have it and completely expect this to be the style of the game in the future. Just different kind of gates to everything.

Traced.3495:

Kormeg.2469:

Traced.3495:

The expansion itself has very little to do with the fact that I do not want to give any money to them ever again.

I don’t care for their direction though, all the gating of things and this progression whatever that is. I don’t like it.

Can you elaborate your point further? Apart from raids, which really aren’t gated, what are you referring to?

I don’t particularly know too many details, happened I today read that masteries require a story quest, which in my books is gating (quest type). And while my thoughts about the game and expansion are what they are this got me even more down.
Then, I haven’t forgotten the NPE which added level gating to things that used not to have it and completely expect this to be the style of the game in the future. Just different kind of gates to everything.

Well if you consider story quests to be gating, then would you think the same about the entire leveling process? Even before the NPE?

It’s fine if you just aren’t interested int he expansion, but it seems like the fact that you have to do anything to get something else is being termed as a gate lately, at which point the word loses meaning because almost everything is gated when thought about as broadly as that.

Sorry if it seems like I’m singling you out, but the last couple weeks on the forums i’ve just seen so many comments on how things are gated, like they weren’t before, and don’t exist in every other game ever.

I’m waiting to see the new skins, both armor and weapons. If they suck then there is really no point in the content.

Kormeg.2469:

Kevan.8912:

Q:“Why havnt you bought HoT yet?”

A: Because I won’t buy it at all. edit

You have been very active on the forums for someone uninterested in playing the game.

Lets assume you’re genuinely interested in others’ opinions and not just trolling with quotes:
nobody said that there is not “gates” in other games.
In fact, an eternal carrot-on-a-stick is the most common behavior that mmorpg show….the caplevel-new BiS/stats-raiding cycle, in the order we prefer.
but that new gates in here are not welcome.
Ok, it’s not a new tier gear or cap level, they say. meh?
Still it’s not what many mean for horizontal progression.

Ascended/FOTM/grind to BiS had already caused a lot of troubles..so just to cool down the flames. and keep the kitten manifesto alive and healthy..
they could just make ascended easier to obtain and make raids a mere matter of skills, not farming another parameter…and they would have avoided all this mess.

Nope. Instead, they add fuel to the fire with raids and gating through BOTH ascended and masteries. bullseye!
So anet’s position about gw2 and future becomes evident: they’ve irreversibly taken a path that a part (don’t know if a major or a “vocal” small population of whining casuals like me, but definitely I’m not the only to think this) of the original players don’t like.

Everything has its price.
I understand that it’s a matter of money and audience and devs will do what they think it’s convenient, but at this point it’s hard to continue to cater so different kinds of users with opposite expectations.
However, I don’t care so much about market trends, I’m a customer and feel “betrayed” once more…it’s obvious that I’m here to make them all know it. It’s..umh..was MY game, too.

For me it is mostly because of the price. It seems expensive for an expansion/the amount of content we get. The story sounds good, and I am waiting to see how much new story content we get.

Also, I play ele, and the tempest does not look very good, so that is a major drawback. I am not sure if they will improve tempest before release or not.

Kormeg.2469:

Well if you consider story quests to be gating, then would you think the same about the entire leveling process? Even before the NPE?

On the character mechanics and map accessibility department I considered GW2 acceptable in the start, even if it could’ve been slightly better. I don’t like the generic MMORPG experience with unlock quests or level requirements for game mechanics, GW2 had none of the first and half-decently minimal amount of the second. Once in reply to speculation of the trait or maybe NPE details being there from the start I made a post something like: I would’ve known to never love this game.
The gating (term I learned recently, I just called them restrictions before) is so jarring when things were taken away. Overall, current direction is not what I thought this game would ever be.

Last bit which reminds me: Oh does HoT ever look like a bundle of tacked on mechanics. Ow my sense of consistency.

This all would belong to another thread and I fear I have not much interest being the game direction is what it is. I really just wanted to tell anet, in case they even remotely care, that I don’t want to ever give them any money again. How would they know otherwise.

There are so many people writing stuff like “The content isn’t worth the price.”
I wonder how are you measuring this. Are you looking at all the announced things and put numbers on them? I can’t get it.

Raqanar.3648:

There are so many people writing stuff like “The content isn’t worth the price.”
I wonder how are you measuring this. Are you looking at all the announced things and put numbers on them? I can’t get it.

Are you really saying people shouldnt be able to judge the value of the product 20 days before it is released, based on all the information that the company released?

What are they supposed to do, buy everything and then return it later?

I’ve already bought the expansion.

I’m posting because I am having a lot of difficulty convincing friends to do the same.

As a friend said just last evening, “I played Dark Age of Camelot all the way to ToA (Trials of Atlantis). You know what I liked about it? Level 50 remained the maximum level from release to the very present day. That’s 14 years of good solid gameplay. Each expansion was about content. It was about exploring vast worlds as large or ever larger than the original game. Player Crafted armor was how you got your armor, from Legendary Crafters and not Legendary Armor only found in an instance. You’re not selling me that this new content can be anything good. All you’re telling me is Guild Wars 2 is swinging into World of Warcraft territory with armor ceilings locking players out of content and content we’ll not be able to play because it was only made for those players who have it own their schedule to play this game. The master levels are just more levels tacked onto an already excessively high level cap. I want to be able to explore the world, camp a few creatures like Knights used to be in Darkness Falls. I want to walk out into a forest full of Ironwood trees not realizing they are aggressive mobs.”

He went on like this for some time. He wasn’t pleased with the new player experience because it lead to his wife coming to hate the game just as she was getting into it. I think the bottom line is that, for most people the “you’re locked out of content until…” model for making games is just dead. Everyone’s lived through it if you’ve played an MMO and it’s really just an excuse to keep someone playing. Ironically it seems to have the opposite effect. I can’t count how many times girl friends won’t join an MMO at all simply because of the hours and hours and hours they’d have to dump into the leveling process before they reach any sort of content.

I think what players are looking for now is more exploration, more Zelda style content, more vistas and exploration and generally more abilities that sync with using their “brain thing” instead of "press a button, any button, and eventually ‘win’ will happen.

If all of this seems bias and doesn’t really match up with what Guild Wars 2 is I wholly agree, but MMOs have always been abusive of players’ time. They’re designers are usually willing to blow off a huge portion of their subscribers to favor some rare few they’ve christened as the fair haired child. I think lately, with the economy so bad in real life, people really can’t tolerate wasting their time. Either something delivers on the content they are into or they’re just not even going to spare the time to be convinced they’ve not got the whole picture.

phys.7689:

Raqanar.3648:

There are so many people writing stuff like “The content isn’t worth the price.”
I wonder how are you measuring this. Are you looking at all the announced things and put numbers on them? I can’t get it.

Are you really saying people shouldnt be able to judge the value of the product 20 days before it is released, based on all the information that the company released?

What are they supposed to do, buy everything and then return it later?

No, I was just wondering about how they are measuring what is worth 54€ and what’s not. I can’t. That’s way too abstract. I couldn’t say what the core game was delivering what was worth more than the AddOn is delivering now. There are meaningful and much needed (!) additions to every aspect of the game. What more can you expect from an expansion for a game? I agree with you if you dislike some of the new features. But if you like all of them and just saying “It isn’t enough” I don’t understand you. You can’t deliver content in an expansion in the way you delivered in a game which were developed for about 5 years. And the price is standard in the industry right now for expansion packs.

You ever see someone drinking San Pellegrino? It’s basically seltzer that comes in a tiny green bottle for like $10. I just don’t value it enough to spend $10 on some sparkling water. I’d rather fill my canteen at the sink. I’m not saying it’s bad, just not worth it for me.

Raqanar.3648:

No, I was just wondering about how they are measuring what is worth 54€ and what’s not. I can’t. That’s way too abstract. I couldn’t say what the core game was delivering what was worth more than the AddOn is delivering now. There are meaningful and much needed (!) additions to every aspect of the game. What more can you expect from an expansion for a game? I agree with you if you dislike some of the new features. But if you like all of them and just saying “It isn’t enough” I don’t understand you. You can’t deliver content in an expansion in the way you delivered in a game which were developed for about 5 years. And the price is standard in the industry right now for expansion packs.

I am measuring it by what I get in other games for that cost. Most full games are $60 (some are less), and they are charging $50 for the GW2 expansion, which seems like a lot for only an expansion. I may still get it after it comes out if it looks good and has a lot of content, but that, along with not being excited about the tempest, is why I haven’t gotten it yet.

Don’t care about beta.

That’s it. If you don’t care about beta you can wait until whenever they announce early access for pre-purchace, if they are going to do that. Maybe a week to a week and a half before so you can get your vet slot.

keep in mind you are paying for future updates too that could be for 3 next years, not just things that have been announced and available on day 1.

Cuz payment authorization failed for some reason. ;x

the cost was always going to be higher than MMOs with sub fees

since charging for subs and expansions both is a huge ripoff

peopl’ll pay $150+60 to play an MMO for a year, but balk at at kitten expansion to gw2.

edit – why is " $ 5 0 " censored? lol

Batdogi.7142:

I’ve been a gamer long enough I don’t pre-order anything. I don’t do betas either and that’s usually the only real selling point of pre-orders.

I feel exactly the same way. I’ve been burnt from pre-ordering rubbish I wish I hadn’t in the past. I’m too long in the tooth to blindly rush into anything any more without seeing exactly what’s on offer.

Also I don’t like ruining the effect of a new game/expansion by trying it out in the beta. I want to experience it when it is finish and complete.

NTDK.4897:

keep in mind you are paying for future updates too that could be for 3 next years, not just things that have been announced and available on day 1.

it could also be in one year,
and they could add no new content but story based content
take a look at the last year

you basically only got silverwastes and new story missions since oct 23 last year

I bought it cause I had a little extra $ and I’m banking on the fact that the updates they do as time goes on will make it worth it in the long-term. Plus, I just think it’ll be kinda fun to be in on the ground floor for once, which is something I almost never do with games.

I imagine there’ll be a lot of bugs at first, but it comes with the territory. I don’t blame anyone who is holding off. If it wasn’t for the little extra $ I had to burn, I’d be doing the same as you… waiting for price to go down way after.

Time will tell what the expansion is worth in gameplay. It’s a hard thing to estimate and depends a lot on how you feel about new features and such, like the masteries. If that sort of thing doesn’t interest you, then that’s a chunk of the expansion content right out of the gate that wouldn’t count in “making it worth the money.”

One thing I’m curious about is whether the raids are actually going to induce any sort of competitive scene, or if they will just be aggrandized dungeons… farmed into oblivion with little challenge. I mean, if it does induce a competitive scene, that could add a whole other dimension to this game’s community.

Because the expansion is basically an overpriced DLC with poor Quality Control.

Really. The few pieces of content we have seen were massively bugged; not only that, but the bugs are actually increasing as we get closer to release. Wasn’t it supposed to be the other way around? Yet here we are, with something so small as mob difficulty being bugged in the entire beta map.

NTDK.4897:

keep in mind you are paying for future updates too that could be for 3 next years, not just things that have been announced and available on day 1.

Funny. When ArenaNet says they will do something and then don’t do it, people scream “it wasn’t a promise, just something they said they would do but didn’t! It wasn’t their fault!”.

And then people turn around and say, “Buy the very overpriced DLC because ArenaNet promised it will come with a vague amount of new content over a vague period of time! It’s definitely worth it!”.

Right. Completely logical.