Guild Wars 2

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Cause there is datamined shield with Glint theme?

As for the lack of utility skills, ask Roy why he kitten up revenant. Fail class. I was hyped for revenant now i see it as a joke profession.

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Because each legend seems to be linked to a spec, except for Invocation which is linked to legendary swapping and energy in general. So 5 core specs minus invocation equals 4. And a total of 5 legends were datamined thus people concluded that the elite spec would add the 5th legend. It’s not fool-proof or anything but it makes sense.

I must honestly say I’m disappointed. I hate to razz ArenaNet for content they haven’t even finished yet, but I was hype as all get-out for the Rev back when we got the first infodrop on them. Then things kept coming, and kept coming, and kept coming…and now the Revenant is looking so lackluster it hurts.

Blagh. Maybe they’ll recover it yet.

Seeing as there hasn’t even been release date announced yet, I don’t think we can decisively assume that everything (as in all the legends) is already in the current client data. Also is there a particular reason to assume that there won’t be more than 3 utility skills per legend?

Kitsune.1902:

Also is there a particular reason to assume that there won’t be more than 3 utility skills per legend?

Yes. Last poi about revenant and ventari legend that had olny 3 utilities. Whole poi was dedicated just for 1 legend, 1 wep and 1 traitline, if there was more than 3 utilities they would show it but they didnt cause there isnt more. Shameful..

Revenant, unfortunately, is going to be a class that doesn’t see significant variety until additional elite specializations are added.

Four baseline is enough to establish some basic roles (one support with Ventari, one tank/bruiser with Jalis, one condi with Mallyx, and one dps with Shiro), but Glint will only be able to truly complement certain ones (and certainly one or two better than the other two or three). They’ll need the future elite specialization legends to round them out. As is, Mallyx and Jalis really don’t have meaningful synergy, while Ventari is a sort of laughable half-complement to both of them.

At any rate, I’m still going to main it for the simple reason that I like the design of its lore, its animations, its weapons, its specializations, and its legends (except for the rather one-note Ventari and his dull specialization line).

Well, if that’s the case it does sound rather… streamlined.

That would be a shame, because the whole class is very heavily rooted in GW1, and GW1 had huge variety of choice you could make.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Revenant, unfortunately, is going to be a class that doesn’t see significant variety until additional elite specializations are added.

Four baseline is enough to establish some basic roles (one support with Ventari, one tank/bruiser with Jalis, one condi with Mallyx, and one dps with Shiro), but Glint will only be able to truly complement certain ones (and certainly one or two better than the other two or three). They’ll need the future elite specialization legends to round them out. As is, Mallyx and Jalis really don’t have meaningful synergy, while Ventari is a sort of laughable half-complement to both of them.

At any rate, I’m still going to main it for the simple reason that I like the design of its lore, its animations, its weapons, its specializations, and its legends (except for the rather one-note Ventari and his dull specialization line).

The thing about this 4 legend theory, is that if Glint== Shield, that inply that this legend is one hander based.

which basically leaves Revenant with no Ranged Damage focused legend for Hammer, which cant be wielded with Shield at same time.

No ranged damage legend. Thats shocking to me. Hammer to me doesn’t seem to fit Dwarf other than in lore. But Hammer for Revenant is ranged, not Melee. So its only connection is the lore to dwarf.

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Your point is what with those numbers? keep in mind each legend will have its own elite as well, where other classes currently have only 3 , the rev will thus have 4, not to mention you can use those utilities, elites and heals a LOT more often due to almost nonexistent cd, only limiter being the energy system, but still does allow for quite a lot of skill use compared to normal classes

GummiBear.2756:

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Your point is what with those numbers? keep in mind each legend will have its own elite as well, where other classes currently have only 3 , the rev will thus have 4, not to mention you can use those utilities, elites and heals a LOT more often due to almost nonexistent cd, only limiter being the energy system, but still does allow for quite a lot of skill use compared to normal classes

Compared to what? Engineer also no weapon switch. They have kit elite that they can use multiple times.

Knighthonor.4061:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Revenant, unfortunately, is going to be a class that doesn’t see significant variety until additional elite specializations are added.

Four baseline is enough to establish some basic roles (one support with Ventari, one tank/bruiser with Jalis, one condi with Mallyx, and one dps with Shiro), but Glint will only be able to truly complement certain ones (and certainly one or two better than the other two or three). They’ll need the future elite specialization legends to round them out. As is, Mallyx and Jalis really don’t have meaningful synergy, while Ventari is a sort of laughable half-complement to both of them.

At any rate, I’m still going to main it for the simple reason that I like the design of its lore, its animations, its weapons, its specializations, and its legends (except for the rather one-note Ventari and his dull specialization line).

The thing about this 4 legend theory, is that if Glint== Shield, that inply that this legend is one hander based.

which basically leaves Revenant with no Ranged Damage focused legend for Hammer, which cant be wielded with Shield at same time.

No ranged damage legend. Thats shocking to me. Hammer to me doesn’t seem to fit Dwarf other than in lore. But Hammer for Revenant is ranged, not Melee. So its only connection is the lore to dwarf.

People are thinking too hard into the one legend = one weapon set ideal.

Let’s take Ventari as an example. It’s a support legend, right? Its complementary weapon is the Staff, right? Well, let’s not ignore that Mace/Axe packs significant cc (and could be used for a condi support build) while Hammer provides an additional projectile destroying field that moves with you. Both round out your support role in ways that the staff doesn’t quite cover and creates new builds.

Jalis is a well-rounded legend focused around durability and support, with some damage thrown in. Though he is designed to complement the hammer (and certainly does), the staff will, if anything, be even more effective with his design.

Mallyx, as a condition-based legend, is the only true outlier. You’re pretty much locked into Mace/Axe. He really needs a complementary legend and another complementary weapon or two. The shield will at least provide another off-hand option, but we’ll have to see how Glint and Shiro work with him.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

People are thinking too hard into the one legend = one weapon set ideal.

Let’s take Ventari as an example. It’s a support legend, right? Its complementary weapon is the Staff, right? Well, let’s not ignore that Mace/Axe packs significant cc (and could be used for a condi support build) while Hammer provides an additional projectile destroying field that moves with you. Both round out your support role in ways that the staff doesn’t quite cover and creates new builds.

Jalis is a well-rounded legend focused around durability and support, with some damage thrown in. Though he is designed to complement the hammer (and certainly does), the staff will, if anything, be even more effective with his design.

Mallyx, as a condition-based legend, is the only true outlier. You’re pretty much locked into Mace/Axe. He really needs a complementary legend and another complementary weapon or two. The shield will at least provide another off-hand option, but we’ll have to see how Glint and Shiro work with him.

I would actually look this from the other end. Revenant has only one weapon set available. So whichever weapon you pick, your two legends must be able to work together with those weapon skills. This would become even more pronounced if you have no choice regarding what skills come with each legend – in other words you can’t fine-tune the skill selection to work with your weapons.

In that kind of system, I can’t see why Revenant wouldn’t get two weapon sets to go with the two legends. Possibly so that the weapon and legend swaps would be tied together – e.g. when you swap a legend, your weapon will also automatically swap to the other slot.

Knighthonor.4061:

GummiBear.2756:

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Your point is what with those numbers? keep in mind each legend will have its own elite as well, where other classes currently have only 3 , the rev will thus have 4, not to mention you can use those utilities, elites and heals a LOT more often due to almost nonexistent cd, only limiter being the energy system, but still does allow for quite a lot of skill use compared to normal classes

Compared to what? Engineer also no weapon switch. They have kit elite that they can use multiple times.

Or elementalist with no weapon swap per se, but able to roll through 4 attunements and constantly spam weapon skills.

GummiBear.2756:

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Your point is what with those numbers? keep in mind each legend will have its own elite as well, where other classes currently have only 3 , the rev will thus have 4, not to mention you can use those utilities, elites and heals a LOT more often due to almost nonexistent cd, only limiter being the energy system, but still does allow for quite a lot of skill use compared to normal classes

1 extra elite is supposed to justify the lack of utility skills? Not to mention that in the end all classes will get 5 base elites for each type except engi as he has olny 4 types just like rev.

Heals a lot more at what cost? Subpar healing skills? Wasting 2 seconds to get something which other classes gets with one healing ability? Do you even know how much “we heal as one” trained strong is? 407hp/s+10sec regen on 16cd. With rune it even removes 1 condi from you and allies. Revenant is not even close.

Use elites more often..go ahead and cast these 3 second long rites. Best joke ever made.

Embrance the darkness? Sure a good skill to pop up from time to time to copy condi back but theres no reason to stay in this elite, it drains energy too fast for basically nothing but condi copy every 3 sec, you can get the same result by entering it in/out+resistance for everytime you do that. Badly designed as it promotes abuse over keeping it up (pulsing resistance would solve that..)

Energy Expulsion? I dont even want to talk how bad it is.

Lets also not forget that some skills are useless in solo settings like mallyx ability pain absord which you never use. And the most fun fact is that you cant even swap it. Shiro on the other hand may get shadowstepping – yeah so cool, too bad i want to stay away from enemy while using hammer, not get close which will render this ability useless and taking away a vulnerable slot off my utility skills.

Revenant is full of nonsense and badly designed. Outside of it animations and some lore connection to legends this class is a kitten joke. And thats all due to lack of utility skills to swap. Also where are the stunbreakers? Yeah in kitten. Now theres a possibility for them to get defiance bar in elite spec – which will end up mandatory 4ever in pvp settings for any rev that doesnt play with spamming roads Jalis. They had pretty good idea but it ended up executed poorly.

Knighthonor.4061:

GummiBear.2756:

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Your point is what with those numbers? keep in mind each legend will have its own elite as well, where other classes currently have only 3 , the rev will thus have 4, not to mention you can use those utilities, elites and heals a LOT more often due to almost nonexistent cd, only limiter being the energy system, but still does allow for quite a lot of skill use compared to normal classes

Compared to what? Engineer also no weapon switch. They have kit elite that they can use multiple times.

Hurray you managed to mention 1 of the 3 exceptions (engi (and even then only with certain skills(kits)), ele with their weapon skills via attunements as conjured weapons, and then thief with the initiative system on thief wep skills), out of the games current 8 classes… where what i said holds true for all the other 5 classes

Can we really call them exceptions when it’s nearly half of the professions in the game?

Knighthonor.4061:

Why do some of you assume Revenant is only getting 4 baseline legends instead of 5?

Each legend provides 3 utility skills.

3*4= 12 utility skills,
Vs
3*5= 15 utility skills.

Also elite spec could likely add an additional legend on top of the baseline legends.

Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx, Glint, Shiro

Kitsune.1902:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

People are thinking too hard into the one legend = one weapon set ideal.

Let’s take Ventari as an example. It’s a support legend, right? Its complementary weapon is the Staff, right? Well, let’s not ignore that Mace/Axe packs significant cc (and could be used for a condi support build) while Hammer provides an additional projectile destroying field that moves with you. Both round out your support role in ways that the staff doesn’t quite cover and creates new builds.

Jalis is a well-rounded legend focused around durability and support, with some damage thrown in. Though he is designed to complement the hammer (and certainly does), the staff will, if anything, be even more effective with his design.

Mallyx, as a condition-based legend, is the only true outlier. You’re pretty much locked into Mace/Axe. He really needs a complementary legend and another complementary weapon or two. The shield will at least provide another off-hand option, but we’ll have to see how Glint and Shiro work with him.

I would actually look this from the other end. Revenant has only one weapon set available. So whichever weapon you pick, your two legends must be able to work together with those weapon skills. This would become even more pronounced if you have no choice regarding what skills come with each legend – in other words you can’t fine-tune the skill selection to work with your weapons.

In that kind of system, I can’t see why Revenant wouldn’t get two weapon sets to go with the two legends. Possibly so that the weapon and legend swaps would be tied together – e.g. when you swap a legend, your weapon will also automatically swap to the other slot..

Invention comes from limitations. Whereas, with two weapon sets, the player would generally pick the two weapons that complement their respective legends, the one-set limitation means that one’s choice of weapon is important. Your playstyle is more than just the one legend and the one weapon. The thing about the Revenant, more than any other class, is forming a cohesive style of varying goals and perhaps even clashing ideals. The weapon is effectively the part that holds your character together, defines you, and becomes a choice to either emphasize a particular legend’s style or compromise between them.

I for one approve of this. It will make the Revenant more interesting in the long run.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Invention comes from limitations. Whereas, with two weapon sets, the player would generally pick the two weapons that complement their respective legends, the one-set limitation means that one’s choice of weapon is important. Your playstyle is more than just the one legend and the one weapon. The thing about the Revenant, more than any other class, is forming a cohesive style of varying goals and perhaps even clashing ideals. The weapon is effectively the part that holds your character together, defines you, and becomes a choice to either emphasize a particular legend’s style or compromise between them.

I for one approve of this. It will make the Revenant more interesting in the long run.

This I can’t agree with at all. No matter how you dress it up, having two legends and only one weapon (set) means that one set will have to be used with both legends. You can’t pick and choose your weapon skills, and current assumption is neither can you the skills of the legends. There are too few possible combinations to get ‘inventive’.

The only result I can see is, you either pick your weapon to use with one legend, and favor that one – and pick the other legend to be the least bad option.. or you pick two legends you want to use, and try to find the weapon set that’s least bad for the worst of the legends to match. Or you pick the weapon you want to use, and the two legends that best match it.

In any of the cases, you’ll have to compromise – sometimes heavily – with a system that already lacks in options (again, based on the current assumptions regarding how revenant works). If you want to get creative with class, having two weapon sets would in no way limit you from this. On the contrary, it would offer better opportunity for it. For example, you could make one legend + weapon a solid ‘all rounder’, and then get more situational or inventive with the other pair. Or you could create some 2×2 combination to mix and match in unusual way.

Though even then, if the skills are really ‘hard coded’ into the legends, it would just make the whole class crippled in the current game system.. so I honestly still fail to believe that’s the case. I’d rather think that much of the class is still unfinished, and/or they simply don’t want to give all the information of it out just yet.

The way it’s presented now, I simply can’t see it working. There’s often skills that you are simply expected to bring in many/most situations. Guardian with wall of reflection. Mesmer with portal. Warrior with banners. I’m positive that revenant will not be exception in this. The difference is that in case of revenant a single skill would define your legend – and under current assumptions your whole utility side of skills. That just.. wouldn’t work. Yes – you have two legends to pick, but that doesn’t make the situation much better.

The versatility of the class comes from being able to create your build. The revenant, as presented, is just a collection of pre-made builds. I suppose if it’s targeted for new players to be a ‘friendly introduction to otherwise too complex system’, then there’s a point to that kind of classs. But.. well. That’s not something I’d be expecting. Certainly it would go along with the whole trend of streamlining though.

Frankly, to me the new class is what I’m expecting the most from the expansion. Not to say that everything else is unimportant – just that it’s what brings the most to my table. IF it turned out to be a class I had no interest in playing, to me personally it would make the expansion itself uninteresting.

It fits the pattern of the fifth core traitline being linked to the profession mechanic. Just like how the first four Elementalist traitlines are linked to the four elements, but a fifth is linked to attunement mechanic itself. Or like how the Necromancer has a fifth core traitline based on the death shroud while the other four are based around utility skill types.

Makes sense that the Revenant will have a fifth core traitline that is different from the legends. You can only switch between two legends during battle, which makes taking a third legend traitline kinda redundant. I like the idea of picking two legend traitlines for battle but picking a universal traitline that remains active all the time and gives the Revenant some stability or cohesion while switching between legendary stances.

I hope that this non-legend traitline will have universal utility skills that can be swapped in place of a legend’s utility skill, so there will be some further build variation. If the weapon skills aren’t linked to the legends and revolve around drawing from mist energy, it would be nice to have some utility skills that do the same. Kinda like how the Elementalist can have Arcane Utility skills which aren’t linked to an element.

Far as I can think offhand, all classes have a traitline that’s connected to their ‘unique class mechanic’. Well they did show revenant in that early video that still had the old trait system – and at that point there were only three traitlines. They said at that point there will be more weapons and traits – and that it’s just the first look at the class. In that sense, like I said before, there’s no reason to assume the class is fully complete even now. It’s a ‘work in progress’ until it’s released.

Also, what comes to elementalist, that class has several skills that work somewhat differently depending on what attunement you are in.

Kitsune.1902:

Far as I can think offhand, all classes have a traitline that’s connected to their ‘unique class mechanic’.

Except for the Revenant, if you look at it a certain way.

I actually predict that the Revenant may end up particularly underpowered because of one simple fact. Every other profession has a unique attribute that they have now been given half of as a baseline and had the other half of rolled into already decent minor traits. The Revenant doesn’t have that. No energy pool bonuses, energy regen bonuses, invoke cooldown reduction or any other such bonuses for equipping the Invocation line. And then it’s also pretty silly that the second Invocation minor does nothing but make the first minor half decent (sort of like the Ranger Marksmanship minors).

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Kitsune.1902:

Far as I can think offhand, all classes have a traitline that’s connected to their ‘unique class mechanic’.

Except for the Revenant, if you look at it a certain way.

I actually predict that the Revenant may end up particularly underpowered because of one simple fact. Every other profession has a unique attribute that they have now been given half of as a baseline and had the other half of rolled into already decent minor traits. The Revenant doesn’t have that. No energy pool bonuses, energy regen bonuses, invoke cooldown reduction or any other such bonuses for equipping the Invocation line. And then it’s also pretty silly that the second Invocation minor does nothing but make the first minor half decent (sort of like the Ranger Marksmanship minors).

I find it extremely unlikely that they’d make a profession with one less traitline than the rest. That’s such an integral part of the game. I’d find it much more likely that they are still in process of finalizing the class mechanics, and a traitline that affects the base mechanic itself would have to come last – because you have to balance it against every other aspect of the class.

Similar argument could be made at the standard set of skills per legend – the way the legends swap the utility set of skills in the bar is a new concept. It might use the baseline of all the ‘morph’ items, but it only affects utility skills, and in the videos earlier it had the small arrow things for skill selection, so it’s not exactly same. It’s not impossible for it to be another aspect of class that’s unfinished – though I wouldn’t exactly count on that.

glehmann.9586:

Can we really call them exceptions when it’s nearly half of the professions in the game?

I think you need to retake math, it is far closer to 25% than 50%, and then that is not even taking into account that some of the exceptions stray further from the norm than the others, thief likely the ones that strays least away, whether engi or ele strays the furthest can be argued, and for engi even depend on your skill setup

Am I missing something?

Do we actually know that Glint will be an Elite Spec? I didn’t think so, I rather assumed that Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx, Shiro and Glint would represent the 5 core specialisation lines of the Revenant. Isn’t it conceivable that a sixth legend will be brought to the table when they finally get on with announcing the elite specialisations?

will revenants be able to use racial skills?

Sarie.1630:

Am I missing something?

Do we actually know that Glint will be an Elite Spec? I didn’t think so, I rather assumed that Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx, Shiro and Glint would represent the 5 core specialisation lines of the Revenant. Isn’t it conceivable that a sixth legend will be brought to the table when they finally get on with announcing the elite specialisations?

Unlikely. It would make sense to build it similar to elementalist, where there are four elements and four traitlines which each represent an element, plus fifth traitline basically representing the class mechanic and general utility. And then of course the sixth for elite.

Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx and Shiro would be similar to elementalist’s elements, and could each be more or less tied to a traitline, with fifth as of yet unknown traitline for representing energy management and general utility.. and the elite would be Glint in that case. If you consider the figures represented in legends – Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx and Shiro – all certainly important figures. But Glint is on class of it’s own when compared to the other four, and would be very good representative for elite legend.

The ‘easy way’ would then be to pick two legends, use their traitlines plus the ‘energy management’ traitline, and pick a weapon set that fits best for whatever legend you expect to get the most use out of.

Getefix.9150:

will revenants be able to use racial skills?

That’s surprisingly good question. The answer should be trivial, but at the moment isn’t. I really believe revenants will be able to swap their skills, even if the set per legend would be more limited than the pool of all skills of other professions. And in that case it would be natural that they could use racial skills. On the other hand the more common view seems to be that their skills are locked in place based on the legends – so.. yeah, that would count out the racial skills. That’s pretty interesting point.

Kitsune.1902:

Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx and Shiro would be similar to elementalist’s elements, and could each be more or less tied to a traitline, with fifth as of yet unknown traitline for representing energy management and general utility

We do kind of know that the Legends will cover all possible mechanics in the game.
Jalis is very tanky, Ventari is heal/support, Mallyx represents condition damage.
Shiro would most likely represent direct damage.
Maybe Glint will be something special. Or did I miss something?

Kitsune.1902:

Sarie.1630:

Am I missing something?

Do we actually know that Glint will be an Elite Spec? I didn’t think so, I rather assumed that Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx, Shiro and Glint would represent the 5 core specialisation lines of the Revenant. Isn’t it conceivable that a sixth legend will be brought to the table when they finally get on with announcing the elite specialisations?

Unlikely. It would make sense to build it similar to elementalist, where there are four elements and four traitlines which each represent an element, plus fifth traitline basically representing the class mechanic and general utility. And then of course the sixth for elite.

Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx and Shiro would be similar to elementalist’s elements, and could each be more or less tied to a traitline, with fifth as of yet unknown traitline for representing energy management and general utility.. and the elite would be Glint in that case. If you consider the figures represented in legends – Ventari, Jalis, Mallyx and Shiro – all certainly important figures. But Glint is on class of it’s own when compared to the other four, and would be very good representative for elite legend.

The ‘fifth’ traitline is not unknown (as I said above).

Mallyx = Corruption
Jalis = Retribution
Ventari = Salvation
Shiro = the unrevealed traitline
The energy/legend swapping line = Invocation

Kitsune.1902:

Getefix.9150:

will revenants be able to use racial skills?

That’s surprisingly good question. The answer should be trivial, but at the moment isn’t. I really believe revenants will be able to swap their skills, even if the set per legend would be more limited than the pool of all skills of other professions. And in that case it would be natural that they could use racial skills. On the other hand the more common view seems to be that their skills are locked in place based on the legends – so.. yeah, that would count out the racial skills. That’s pretty interesting point.

We already know that Revenants are able to move around their utility skills. In fact I think remember Anet saying Revenants can use racial skills but don’t quote me on that.

Tbh when i look at invocation line i dont see anything interesing there. Other than creating healing orbs and insta swap it doesnt have anything to offer in my opinion unless you do dungeons for extra 10% on fury.

Its a first traitline that doesnt support class mechanic in fact. Theres nothing that even reduces recharge on swap lol. I wont even consider that line when crafting a build. Most likely i will end up with jalis, shiro and glint line with shiro/glint as legends.

Kitsune.1902:

Getefix.9150:

will revenants be able to use racial skills?

That’s surprisingly good question. The answer should be trivial, but at the moment isn’t. I really believe revenants will be able to swap their skills, even if the set per legend would be more limited than the pool of all skills of other professions. And in that case it would be natural that they could use racial skills. On the other hand the more common view seems to be that their skills are locked in place based on the legends – so.. yeah, that would count out the racial skills. That’s pretty interesting point.

In the last beta at least, they could not (where playing other classes in same beta the racials were there), ofc it was an old build and all, but still the fact that it was even implemented in a beta with no access to them is a bit worrying to me

This is a bit old since it’s from Pre-PAX, if anyone has some more recent comments from anet about it, feel free to point at them:
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35785&storypage=3

Our final question for Peters involved the Revenant’s heal, utility and elite skills. Channeling legends will change these skills, but each legend in the demo only had the specific five skills with no additional skill options. Peters said that for now this is how it works, but that he can’t rule anything out. He explained that it depends on playing it more and getting a feel for the class now that they have a couple of legends in a really good place. When you start to play more, you can get a sense of whether it needs more customization there or not. Peters said that it is their responsibility now to really dive in and play it to see if enough customization is there or not, and to address it either way.

Peters commented that there is a lot of merit to both; having no customization has allowed them to create a lot of synergy between the skills, something that they wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise. So if they do go in and change it, they need to be careful as Peters said that the synergy currently feels really good. On the other hand, having options helps make you feel more in control of your character and its customization. This is another area where they will be looking at player feedback to help determine which course of action they take.

I’m one of those people who wants to ‘feel more in control of your character’, and so if it stays like this, it’ll simply kill the class for me. But, that’s just me. I’ve always liked all kinds of customizing options, and fiddling with them to fine-tune the ‘experience’.

Since this is really the ‘make it or break it’ for me, would be great if anyone can link into more recent official word about this – if such exists.

Diovid.9506:

The ‘fifth’ traitline is not unknown (as I said above).

Mallyx = Corruption
Jalis = Retribution
Ventari = Salvation
Shiro = the unrevealed traitline
The energy/legend swapping line = Invocation

We already know that Revenants are able to move around their utility skills. In fact I think remember Anet saying Revenants can use racial skills but don’t quote me on that.

About fifth trait line – that’s good then, I had missed it – thanks for pointing it out. What comes to skills, I didn’t really mean ‘moving the three existing skills around the bar’, but rather actually having a larger pool of skills that you can swap into the bar instead of the ‘standard’ skills – e.g. the way other classes do it. Racial skills would create at least a bit of variety, but not enough in my opinion, and they aren’t really part of the class itself.

Kitsune.1902:

This is a bit old since it’s from Pre-PAX, if anyone has some more recent comments from anet about it, feel free to point at them:
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35785&storypage=3

Our final question for Peters involved the Revenant’s heal, utility and elite skills. Channeling legends will change these skills, but each legend in the demo only had the specific five skills with no additional skill options. Peters said that for now this is how it works, but that he can’t rule anything out. He explained that it depends on playing it more and getting a feel for the class now that they have a couple of legends in a really good place. When you start to play more, you can get a sense of whether it needs more customization there or not. Peters said that it is their responsibility now to really dive in and play it to see if enough customization is there or not, and to address it either way.

Peters commented that there is a lot of merit to both; having no customization has allowed them to create a lot of synergy between the skills, something that they wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise. So if they do go in and change it, they need to be careful as Peters said that the synergy currently feels really good. On the other hand, having options helps make you feel more in control of your character and its customization. This is another area where they will be looking at player feedback to help determine which course of action they take.

I’m one of those people who wants to ‘feel more in control of your character’, and so if it stays like this, it’ll simply kill the class for me. But, that’s just me. I’ve always liked all kinds of customizing options, and fiddling with them to fine-tune the ‘experience’.

Since this is really the ‘make it or break it’ for me, would be great if anyone can link into more recent official word about this – if such exists.

Diovid.9506:

The ‘fifth’ traitline is not unknown (as I said above).

Mallyx = Corruption
Jalis = Retribution
Ventari = Salvation
Shiro = the unrevealed traitline
The energy/legend swapping line = Invocation

We already know that Revenants are able to move around their utility skills. In fact I think remember Anet saying Revenants can use racial skills but don’t quote me on that.

About fifth trait line – that’s good then, I had missed it – thanks for pointing it out. What comes to skills, I didn’t really mean ‘moving the three existing skills around the bar’, but rather actually having a larger pool of skills that you can swap into the bar instead of the ‘standard’ skills – e.g. the way other classes do it. Racial skills would create at least a bit of variety, but not enough in my opinion, and they aren’t really part of the class itself.

I assume they will make the Revenant, more trait heavy vs skill heavy in terms of customization. Because if not, it will be an disaster in the long run.

Kitsune.1902:

Our final question for Peters involved the Revenant’s heal, utility and elite skills. Channeling legends will change these skills, but each legend in the demo only had the specific five skills with no additional skill options. Peters said that for now this is how it works, but that he can’t rule anything out. He explained that it depends on playing it more and getting a feel for the class now that they have a couple of legends in a really good place. When you start to play more, you can get a sense of whether it needs more customization there or not. Peters said that it is their responsibility now to really dive in and play it to see if enough customization is there or not, and to address it either way.

Peters commented that there is a lot of merit to both; having no customization has allowed them to create a lot of synergy between the skills, something that they wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise. So if they do go in and change it, they need to be careful as Peters said that the synergy currently feels really good. On the other hand, having options helps make you feel more in control of your character and its customization. This is another area where they will be looking at player feedback to help determine which course of action they take.

They could create 2 extra skills that has “synergy” and arent useless depending on situations like x weapon or solo settings. They could just create 1 skill for stunbreak and condi clean there for example mallyx;

Stunbreak skill – Shout demonic roar to create demonic dust around you to fear enemies and break stun.

2 sec aoe fear, 240 radius, 50 energy cost, 8sec of self inflicted poison. Give it a short casttime and some black/purple fog effect around you so people can dodge the fear part.

Condi cleanse skill – Call powers of Mallyx to consume conditions and harm your body. Each consumed condition will take a small portion of your health

40 energy cost, 3 conditions cleansed. Lose 300 hp per removed condition

Something along these lines would be more than cool and fix current issues with rev.

Knighthonor.4061:

I assume they will make the Revenant, more trait heavy vs skill heavy in terms of customization. Because if not, it will be an disaster in the long run.

I can’t see how that would work, really. If anything my feel is it’s less customizable through traits than some other classes, if (like I’ve understood) the four traitlines are somewhat tied to the four legends. It would funnel people to taking the two specific traitlines that match the two legends they pick (regardless of if one of the two was elite or not), and then use the … what was it, invocation? traitline as the third one. That would mean little choice regarding the traitlines themself, and since you can’t have control over skills, you don’t seek for various combinations of trait & skill, but simply which options out of your 3×3 picks best fit the fixed skills you are given.

But, it’s possible I’m wrong with this assumption.

I was… surprised at how lame the rev felt to me, I’ll admit. What I found weird is the combination of appalling damage, slow casting times and extremely clunky animations – mace 2 and 3, what the hell? my char didn’t leap, it tried to fly… spasming while in the air like a monstrous bird with one wing. Whatever, let’s not even talk about the axe port freaking my camera out… /shrug
I doubt even Shiro can fix it.

For me it seems like they are on the right track compared to the other classes. For example, when you think of the other classes, you get customization in the ability to swap weapons in combat on the fly. So (aside from Ele) you choose which 5 weapon skills to swap between, and you don’t get to pick and choose those skills.

Same with Rev, but reverse. You are now swapping out your heal, three utilities, and elite. Your weapon is locked in place, however, you can switch it out in between combat or a match, just like the utility skills for most other classes.

The difference of course comes into play that you cannot mix and match weapon skill attacks like you can utility skills for other classes.

So it seems to me… Anet could easily fix this issue by allowing us to use DIFFERENT skills for weapons. >.>. How cool would that be? Like, you could turn mace and axe into more tanky based attacks. You could have swords be power based, for Shiro friendly synergy, or condi based for Mal synergy.

Yeah, it’s probably too late in development to implement and balance, but come on, it would be cool. They would be the class that uses the Mists and Legends to customize their weapon fighting style. Sort of like “Sure, Shiro obviously used swords that way… But THIS is how he would use a STAFF!”

^Wont happen. Too many animations to recycle and fit for each weapon. Howered weapon skills could be modified similiar to ele glyph but based on legend instead.

Hammer lose it damage but gain instead conditions in mallyx, for example hammer 1 bleeding, hammer 2 burning etc. But i dont think they willing to do this at all otherwise they would implement it already.

The way they originally designed Staff made it seem like a better fit for Dwarf legend than the Hammer did. But that was revamped to make Ranged Hammer the Dwarf weapon.
That seem very weird to me, unless they plan to make the Revenant trait Specializations adjust ALL WEAPONS to fit the compliment Legend.

That would make the most sense, due to the way the legend system works.

So Mallyx for example and its corresponding specialization should provide ALL WEAPONs with conditions to be applied to enemies.

Same for Staff and Centari specialization and legend. It should provide support to ALL WEAPONS and not just STAFF.

that’s the only way this legend-to-weapon thing will actually work. Otherwise players will be stuck with in many cases, a weapon that doesn’t fit the legends equipped for it.

Like a Staff Rev, with Mallyx/Shiro as their legend. Now what?

ON TOPIC:
If Glint really is Rev’s Elite spec, and they getting Shield (WHICH MESMER ALSO GOT FOR ELITE SPEC WEAPOM),
Than that means they didn’t even give Revenant a RANGED DAMAGE DEALING LEGEND to fit in with Revy Hammer ranged DPS…….

Something wrong there, when Hammer’s specialization is the DEFENSIVE SPECIALIZATION and not a RANGED SPECIALIZATION/LEGEND …..

Glint elite skill is a ranged burst attack, so here that. It might have other ranged abilities as well. Problem with hammer is that you cant kite with this weapon at all unless Shiro will gain ground targeted shadowstep like shortbow 5 on a thief. But from the sound of rev and their mobility in one of the interviews most likely shadowstep will be target based as hes supposed to be slow outside of combat like guard.

Meanwhile i pray for +25% move speed in power line or..lets say i will have to speak to someone

skowcia.8257:

Glint elite skill is a ranged burst attack, so here that. It might have other ranged abilities as well. Problem with hammer is that you cant kite with this weapon at all unless Shiro will gain ground targeted shadowstep like shortbow 5 on a thief. But from the sound of rev and their mobility in one of the interviews most likely shadowstep will be target based as hes supposed to be slow outside of combat like guard.

Meanwhile i pray for +25% move speed in power line or..lets say i will have to speak to someone

But going off the rumor theorycrafting, Glint Elite Spec will be centered around SHIELD as its weapon of choice instead of Hammer which is their only range weapon so far.

Knighthonor.4061:

skowcia.8257:

Glint elite skill is a ranged burst attack, so here that. It might have other ranged abilities as well. Problem with hammer is that you cant kite with this weapon at all unless Shiro will gain ground targeted shadowstep like shortbow 5 on a thief. But from the sound of rev and their mobility in one of the interviews most likely shadowstep will be target based as hes supposed to be slow outside of combat like guard.

Meanwhile i pray for +25% move speed in power line or..lets say i will have to speak to someone

But going off the rumor theorycrafting, Glint Elite Spec will be centered around SHIELD as its weapon of choice instead of Hammer which is their only range weapon so far.

I believe Glint may be ranged or hybrid at least. You can say the same about Jalis after all. Jalis is centered around hammer as it weapon choice and yet his utilities are melee oriented. What stop them from creating Glint as a ranged legend to fill up the weakness of revenant – lack of ranged attacks?

Also dont forget shield abilities
http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg
Shield 4 – 900 range.

The single weapon set actually brings in another problem. Elite spec is apparently supposed to be one thing that represents the character’s advancement ‘beyond level 80’. I’d imagine in most cases you’d want to use it. This spec comes with it’s own weapon (regardless of if it’s a shield or something else). Thus using elite spec would lock you into one specific trait line, one specific weapon (although you could still pick your other weapon if elite weapon isn’t 2-h weapon) and in case of revenant, one specific skillset.

Assuming again that you’d in most cases want to pick second traitling based on your other legend, and invocation as third traitline, your actual choices (if you want to take advantage of elite spec) would be limited to:

• 1 legend (with 5 skills, and which also defines the one remaining traitline)
• 1 weapon (assuming the elite weapon is 1-h weapon, like shield)

And of course the assignment of the 3×3 traits themself. However given the limited scope of other options, I think in most cases the traits won’t offer much true variety – because given the other options pretty much set in stone, the trait that best plays together with them is often fairly obvious one. Even with classes that actually can assign their skills freely, I find people now make pretty similar selections for their traits.

We already know that elite spec with offhand weapons will provide addiotional mechanic. In case of rev it most likely an f2 skill. For that alone you want to pick up it.

It doesnt matter if it come with new type of utility skills or new weapon cause from what we seen so far in revealed elite specs, youre not forced to use them. You mostly pick up elite spec for different playstyle and changed class mechanic so it doesnt lock you in anything at all.

Ps. Invocation is terrible. In case of power build i will go personally for Jalis/Shiro/Glint lines. So right here you can trait for another legend other than Glint. Thats said..why you woulndt use such amazing legend as Glint combined with Shiro?

skowcia.8257:

Knighthonor.4061:

skowcia.8257:

Glint elite skill is a ranged burst attack, so here that. It might have other ranged abilities as well. Problem with hammer is that you cant kite with this weapon at all unless Shiro will gain ground targeted shadowstep like shortbow 5 on a thief. But from the sound of rev and their mobility in one of the interviews most likely shadowstep will be target based as hes supposed to be slow outside of combat like guard.

Meanwhile i pray for +25% move speed in power line or..lets say i will have to speak to someone

But going off the rumor theorycrafting, Glint Elite Spec will be centered around SHIELD as its weapon of choice instead of Hammer which is their only range weapon so far.

I believe Glint may be ranged or hybrid at least. You can say the same about Jalis after all. Jalis is centered around hammer as it weapon choice and yet his utilities are melee oriented. What stop them from creating Glint as a ranged legend to fill up the weakness of revenant – lack of ranged attacks?

Also dont forget shield abilities
http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg
Shield 4 – 900 range.

Shield is a one hander weapon. plus we dont have weapon swap, so that means no Shield/Hammer combo like a Warrior/Guardian.
But I see your point. Glint could have ranged skills. Seem like Glint is built around Signets right now.

Lets hope Anet does something good there. Because like I said before

Hammer and Jaris Dwarf Legend connection is STUPID, and only done from a lore perspective, which is very different from gameplay.

Range Weapon needs a Range Legend combo, not Dwarf melee legend combo.

That to me show that Revy’s lead developers not thinking deeply about all these areas of the Revenant.

All elite specs are supposed to alter/enhance the basic class mechanic, yes. Virtues for guardian, shatters for mesmer, shroud for necromancer. The new traits, skills and weapons are supposed to work together with that altered mechanic/playstyle.

Of course you are not absolutely forced to do anything. I’m looking at this more from the design perspective. The elite weapon is meant to work in combination with elite traitline. And elite traitline itself is designed to be the ‘next step’ after level 80. For classes with two weapon sets it’s less limiting. For those with one (engi, ele, rev), if they want to use the weapon that’s designed to work with the elite spec (and it’s associated playstyle) they have to give their only weapon set to it.

For revenant that’s designed to work with premade skillsets, it limits their already limited options even further. I’m not going to argue whether invocation is good or bad. I’m again looking at it from design side: supposedly each legend is going to support a different playstyle (tank, support, dps, condi etc). Traitlines likewise are supposed to cator for different playstyles, or ‘roles’.

While it’s true that nothing absolutely forces you to pick – say – support traitline with support legend, it’s still the kind of direction the mechanics of the class itself push towards. Ironically, it’s true that if the ‘generic’ traitline (invocation) really is bad, it essentially may gives ‘more’ choices, because then the actual ‘second choice’ might not be quite so clear.

Knighthonor.4061:

skowcia.8257:

Knighthonor.4061:

skowcia.8257:

Glint elite skill is a ranged burst attack, so here that. It might have other ranged abilities as well. Problem with hammer is that you cant kite with this weapon at all unless Shiro will gain ground targeted shadowstep like shortbow 5 on a thief. But from the sound of rev and their mobility in one of the interviews most likely shadowstep will be target based as hes supposed to be slow outside of combat like guard.

Meanwhile i pray for +25% move speed in power line or..lets say i will have to speak to someone

But going off the rumor theorycrafting, Glint Elite Spec will be centered around SHIELD as its weapon of choice instead of Hammer which is their only range weapon so far.

I believe Glint may be ranged or hybrid at least. You can say the same about Jalis after all. Jalis is centered around hammer as it weapon choice and yet his utilities are melee oriented. What stop them from creating Glint as a ranged legend to fill up the weakness of revenant – lack of ranged attacks?

Also dont forget shield abilities
http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg
Shield 4 – 900 range.

Shield is a one hander weapon. plus we dont have weapon swap, so that means no Shield/Hammer combo like a Warrior/Guardian.
But I see your point. Glint could have ranged skills. Seem like Glint is built around Signets right now.

Lets hope Anet does something good there. Because like I said before

Hammer and Jaris Dwarf Legend connection is STUPID, and only done from a lore perspective, which is very different from gameplay.

Range Weapon needs a Range Legend combo, not Dwarf melee legend combo.

That to me show that Revy’s lead developers not thinking deeply about all these areas of the Revenant.

They very well might not have revealed all the weapons for revenant yet, so there’s that. It’s possible that revenant’s elite will be more integrated into the class than the rest, because it was designed together with the class itself – unlike other elites that came about years after the classes themself. For other classes, there was plenty of time to ‘playtest’ them, see how they handle, and identify what they miss. For revenant, the elite is rolled into the base design.

[&Bz9qAAA=]
[&B1RuAAA=]
[&BwNpAAA=]
[&B4ZsAAA=] <Glint.
[&B5l3AAA=] <i assume thats war utility skill, if its trait tho then rip revenant without any stunbreaks. Legit

Trololol. It also confirms olny 4 base legends. 12 utility skills hype. Btw http://imgur.com/a/8Bk6u

skowcia.8257:

[&Bz9qAAA=]
[&B1RuAAA=]
[&BwNpAAA=]
[&B4ZsAAA=] <Glint.
[&B5l3AAA=] <i assume thats war utility skill, if its trait tho then rip revenant without any stunbreaks. Legit

Trololol. It also confirms olny 4 base legends. 12 utility skills hype. Btw http://imgur.com/a/8Bk6u

I don’t see that confirming anything except that we can’t yet say for sure how many legends there will be. Two of the links refer to – I presume – traits, that have different effects depending on – again I presume – what legend you have active, similar to elementalist attunements.

Two of the four legends listed don’t even have icons yet. That tells me – if nothing else – that legends are not fully implemented in current data yet. Further, we’re assuming there are at minimum Ventari, Shiro, Jalis, Mallyx and Glint.. and it’s safe bet that all of them – including elite – will have representation in those traits. So that also suggests to me that those traits are not yet finalized to include all legends. Of course it’s entirely possible there’s going to be 4+1 at launch – I’d even say it’s probable.

Either way I don’t see a problem with having 4+1 legends. The problem I see is the inability to pick your skills.

Now I know that most of the ‘random’ combinations of skills from other classes are not very useful. But if you think of the plain number of possibilities – I’ll take sylvari ranger as an example, since that’s what I play as a main.

Including racial skills, you have:
(I’ll assume 1 elite spec healing skill, 3 elite utility and 1 elite ‘elite’ skill)
5+1 healing skills
22+3 utility skills
6+1 elite skills
The number of all possible combinations is..
6 × 25 × 24 x 23 × 7 = 579,600 possible combinations.

For revenant the same number would be..
4+1 legends

5 × 4 = 20 possible combinations.

That, is my problem.

The interview I linked earlier said they wanted the opportunity to make skills synergize strongly. Like skowcia.8257 mentioned earlier, I can’t see how that prevents them from adding more options. They could easily create three skill sets for all legends, and work them out same way the traits are right now.

E.g. make two full synergized lineups of heal + 3xutility + elite, for each legend. Then make third full lineup of ‘individual’ skills that have some important utilities. Those skills could even be cross-legend, so they could include some utilities (like the mentioned condi handling or stun break) that might be situationally needed for any of the legends.

How these choices would be offered, is another question. They could be simply given same way all other classes get skills – a pool of skills where you can pick anything applicable to your bar (of course from different pool of skills per each legend). Or they could be given in slightly more limited scope, similar to how traits work – e.g. each utility slot of each legend would have 3 options you could pick from. Two of them would be planned for synergy (e.g. option 1 on each utility would synergy between eachother, option 2 would have different synergy with all option 2 skills, and option 3 would be more ‘general’ utility skill).

Personally I’d prefer just having a free choice of all available skills.

My problem is lower number of utility skills compared to old classes. Why on the earth rev has olny 12 utility skills and 15 with elite spec when old classes got 20+4 from elite? That makes absolutely 0 sense. On top of that basically 0 stunbreakers..

Racial skills are not something i care about tho.

skowcia.8257:

My problem is lower number of utility skills compared to old classes. Why on the earth rev has olny 12 utility skills and 15 with elite spec when old classes got 20+4 from elite? That makes absolutely 0 sense. On top of that basically 0 stunbreakers..

Racial skills are not something i care about tho.

I guess that’s basically the same thing, really – e.g. “Why does each legend only have 1 + 3 + 1 skills available?”. I’d like each legend to have a larger pool of skills available, from which they could pick a lineup. Simply making a couple more legends wouldn’t fix the problem of versatility – e.g. if you go into situation where you absolutely must have a stun break, or condi removal, or temporary invulnerability, or reflection, or evasion skill – or any number of other specific utilities… why does your entire skill lineup (for legend) have to be decided by that single requirement.

And, like I’ve pointed earlier.. it’s guaranteed that there will be some utility(s) that revenant is expected to bring to party. The ‘Jalis Road’ comes to mind as a possible one. For other classes it just means you’d need to swap one utility to provide it. Warrior banner. Guardian reflection. Mesmer portal. Whatever. For revenant it would mean you’re obliged to play a particular legend.. and thus select half of your entire skillset just to bring that one utility. Worst case there will be two ‘mandatory’ utilities from two separate legends.

Of course larger pool wouldn’t entirely fix this issue – you’d still have to pick a legend to satisfy the requirement.. but at least you’d have some flexibility within that legend.