Guild Wars 2

Oh geez …. I only started the game a week ago and even I’m not that kitten by this news. I have a ton more to do than you do.

I read this and the only thing I can think is ‘Are they seriously complaining because they have to play the game?’. Seriously, you get 10 HP per challenge in the xpac. 10 freaking points. So you have to do 40, I could do that in a day easy and will prolly have it done by Sunday.

The sky isn’t falling so just wait and see for yourself before complaining.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

DeceiverX.8361:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nike.2631:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

Because it would be morally wrong to have new maps and new skills at the same time.

Hmmm. I could have sworn that when the game first started I had to unlock the weapon skills then the utility skills then the traits by playing to level 80 and getting skill points, for each and every single char I made.

Could be wrong of course, but that’s what I remember.

Just you. When I played the game at the start, players finished weapon skills by level 3 of a particular set if starting fresh via mob kills, and also received all traits by level 60, there were no level requirements by tier, and all of these were based solely on level instead of any kind of content-gating.

I.E., you had the last 20 levels to enjoy a full build and start working on gear for endgame rather than reaching 80 and just learning about the game or not getting to enjoy the content you’ve just completed to create a build to complete better.

In other words, yes I did have to level without any tomes or writs or by fast leveling in eotm. I had to get to level 60 to unlock everything by playing the game and it me hours and hours to get to level 60 just by map completion and events, and there wasn’t any way to fast track it.

I guess my memory isn’t so faulty after all.

but you dint have to beat all dungeons nor all skill point challenges to unlock all of your traits and skills heck you dint even had to do the game’s story quest line

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Yes, asking the game to hand over char progression just by logging in to their level 80 is asking for it to be given to them on a silver platter.

/sigh
Sure whatever. Not really but lets agree to disagree.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

Yeah, whenever I hear someone say stuff like that, I imagine it as, “I’m blindly protecting the Devs, because I’m scared they’ll get angry, and not give me game no more.”

IchbinVol.5407:

Coulter.2315:

dom.2748:

Coulter.2315:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Incorrect, Colin literally said you need to unlock all the core stuff to unlock the elite spec.

Ah righto.

Yeah, this is WHY ppl are angry. A 3 year vet, with map completion, is forced to farm more to get something they should already have access to.

Well you say that but say you started a Ritualist in Cantha it didn’t come with all skills unlocked. I don’t think this complaint of “we should have it” makes any sense – where do people get the expectation from? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a MMO where you start with everything unlocked for a new class. GW2 players have been spoiled by Tomes but I do not think that being spoiled and demanding you continue to be spoiled is a good mental state to foster.

Swagger.1459:

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

I’ve seen this complaint quite a lot.
I have an honest question: Where have they said how many Proofs of Heroics you’ll gain from each WvW rank?
I’ve seen a hell of a lot of people assume it’s just one. And they all seem to be saying it like it’s fact and simply making the same complaint you have, but I can’t find it. For all we know it’s five or ten per rank. Or three per rank and ten on every level multipliable by five or something.

Enitzu.1874:

Oh geez …. I only started the game a week ago and even I’m not that kitten by this news. I have a ton more to do than you do.

I read this and the only thing I can think is ‘Are they seriously complaining because they have to play the game?’. Seriously, you get 10 HP per challenge in the xpac. 10 freaking points. So you have to do 40, I could do that in a day easy and will prolly have it done by Sunday.

The sky isn’t falling so just wait and see for yourself before complaining.

You didnt spam the same content for months/years at a time, like we did. We did the time already, we just want our new specs. We’re sick of our old specs, and want to do the new stuff, with new skills.

Everything is fresh to you, so of course you don’t care.

arkealia.2713:

So you want elite spec unlocked right away?

Yes.

arkealia.2713:

With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

No.

arkealia.2713:

I don’t even remember anyone crying at GW2 release because they didn’t have all their skills and weapons unlocked right away.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the new Maguuma zones are pitched at level 80 characters? However they are also the only zones where you can effectively gain the hero points to get your traits and skills to the point that they should be on a level 80 character. So, in order to complete the level 80 content (without leeching), you need to do so with your current spec and then switch to your elite when you have sufficient points to be productive. So that’s not unlike levelling one character in order to play another in content you’ve already completed … and that’s just odd.

arkealia.2713:

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

I don’t even remember anyone crying at GW2 release because they didn’t have all their skills and weapons unlocked right away.

Are you sure you really want to play and enjoy the game?

Edit: I can understand the frustration for wvw players

No. With game design there is a balance between what aspects of a game you give to the player at the beginning or though tutorial levels. Things that are core utility to making the game new, fun and overall novel that are a functional part of the game you give to the player very early on. The ability to unlock all weapon skills for your class is a good example of this. A player in the core game does have to work to unlock weapon skills on a new character but it takes very little effort because this is a core mechanic of the game. it’s not content or a reward they are trying to achieve.

The new Elite Specializations are a core aspect of HoT that give it value. It’s a modification to the functional aspect of the game that make it feel new and exciting. To force a player to make it though 50%+ of the HoT content in order to be able to have enough traits unlocked to create an effective build devalues the game. We already have masteries, adventures and legendaries that give us grind-hungry MMO PvE players enough to feed on. They should not have made it so a player has to work that kittenly to get to a functional aspect of the game. It should feel completely new right away and Elite Specs were the pathway to accomplishing that. The Elite Spec unique skins, mods etc.. could be a progression that takes a player a long time, but as it stands we are looking at 200 her points being required just to get the trait paths unlocked to make a competitive build. For a player starting with 0 hero points that means grinding though the hero challenges in core game on alt or waiting until your 50% though Heart of Torns to have them. That’s horrible design.

First of all, I have 8 lvl 80’s.. I know plenty about having alts. Not bothered.

Second, Many of my alts have next to nothing unlocked in maps, because 90% of my time is spent in WvW or EoTM. Haven’t done a dungeon in 2 1/2 years.

So…..you were saying?

Hell, I am ecstatic that we finally get SOMETHING as progression doing WvW. I’d rather run 10 days of WvW to get what I need than an hour in a dungeon to get the same thing. That’s my personal preference.

I do have map completion on two of my characters. It took me about 3-5 days of playing to do that on each of them…depending on how much play time I had.

40 heart quests is what we are basically talking about, right? By my reckoning, that adds up to about 15 hours at a VERY casual pace.

If you think that is a “grind”, that’s pathetic.

Rezzet.3614:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

DeceiverX.8361:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nike.2631:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

Because it would be morally wrong to have new maps and new skills at the same time.

Hmmm. I could have sworn that when the game first started I had to unlock the weapon skills then the utility skills then the traits by playing to level 80 and getting skill points, for each and every single char I made.

Could be wrong of course, but that’s what I remember.

Just you. When I played the game at the start, players finished weapon skills by level 3 of a particular set if starting fresh via mob kills, and also received all traits by level 60, there were no level requirements by tier, and all of these were based solely on level instead of any kind of content-gating.

I.E., you had the last 20 levels to enjoy a full build and start working on gear for endgame rather than reaching 80 and just learning about the game or not getting to enjoy the content you’ve just completed to create a build to complete better.

In other words, yes I did have to level without any tomes or writs or by fast leveling in eotm. I had to get to level 60 to unlock everything by playing the game and it me hours and hours to get to level 60 just by map completion and events, and there wasn’t any way to fast track it.

I guess my memory isn’t so faulty after all.

but you dint have to beat all dungeons nor all skill point challenges to unlock all of your traits and skills heck you dint even had to do the game’s story quest line

Ok. Character progression isn’t achieved by an identical route between the two. /shrug. Not sure that it could be or that it would even be desired.

The funniest thing is the type of people that make forum threads like this one are the same people that will complain to anet that they finished all the expac in a week.

Im glad it takes alot of HP for specs. At least it will increase my playtime and value for money.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Grind is not “time consuming”. Grind is not “playing through the game’s content multiple times.”

Grind in the context of video games refers to the repetitious act of repeating the same singular activity over and over.

Doing 40 different hero challenges? Not grind.

Doing 40 different hero challenges on multiple characters? Not grind.

Doing the same singular hero challenge over and over? Grind.

Doing the same singular event in hopes of getting that RNG drop called Sam? Grind.

Please people, get your dictionaries out and know what the words you are using actually mean!

By this logic farming keys from the level 10 story isn’t a grind as it is done on different characters.

Vihar.5780:

40 heart quests is what we are basically talking about, right? By my reckoning, that adds up to about 15 hours at a VERY casual pace.

They’re not even heart quests, they’re Hero Points. The old Skill Points. Some are “beat this one enemy in a fight”, others are just “reach and interact with this thing”.

Healix.5819:

Knighthonor.4061:

How many Hero Points are in the new HoT zones?

40 hero challenges and they give 10 hero points each for a total of 400, which is how many points you need to fully unlock an elite spec.

If you have world completion already, you’re halfway through the elite spec. Considering elite specs include other stuff to unlock however, you’ll likely only need 10 or so hero challenge within HoT to fully unlock all skills and traits.

Well they did say 200 to unlock all skills and traits. The characters i wanted the ES on i got to 170 anyway. So 3 HP challenges to go in HoT.

You don’t need any of that stuff to do raids. If you do raids and feel the need for better gears/skills, you spend some time to earn those gears/skills.
That’s kinda how these games work, isn’kitten

Zania.8461:

I came to GW2 because I didn’t have to grind and only major timesinks were optional and did not impact character progression.

I honestly struggle to see why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. I can only assume they are quite new to the franchise and just don’t get it.

Zypher.7609:

Menadena.7482:

Zypher.7609:

GG for buying a game that required you to.. wait for it… play the game.

Maybe because (drumroll) this was sold as a ‘play your own way’ game and good for casual players, like RPers?

I dislike when people take the ‘play your own way’ to mean develop a game where I do nothing and get everything. Because that is how you want to ‘play’ the game. This is not what ‘play your own way’ means. So please stop using it like that.

I am not. I prefer to explore at random. That means if I complete a map it was pure chance. Some people hate that style but, hey, I can not understand the mindset of HAVING to get every vista to complete a map either, especially since the only real reward is a star next to your name plus a title for completing everything in the core game. Sure our rewards are different, as little as the difference is, but that is my choice.

For HOT I bought the game so I could do the same but with new mechanics. Now I am told I need to grind content I do not care about rushing around in to be able to explore it with the mechanics I paid $100 to get.

IchbinVol.5407:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

Yeah, whenever I hear someone say stuff like that, I imagine it as, “I’m blindly protecting the Devs, because I’m scared they’ll get angry, and not give me game no more.”

Because your expectations are not realistic. You knew you would have to unlock the elite line. They did not say how but they said it would have to be unlocked. They gave in on the core unlock at 80 after numerous complaints by people who had already unlocked it and would have to unlock again. That was reasonable, but to expect that the game would immediately unlock the Elite spec is like buying an expansion in a game such as WoW and complaining that your char doesn’t get those 10 extra levels at log on.

That’s the way it’s set up here. You have to progress your char to get the core then progress it again to get the elite.

I’ve said this in another thread, but I’ll reiterate here.

I think we need to stop looking at the “400” number and look at the assorted comments that have been made:

• 60 points to start using our elite
• should have all traits and skills unlocked right around the 200 point mark
• Skills and traits will unlock first (function over frill)

Personally, I’m thinking we need the standard 145 points for a spec/trait line unlock (60 + 85 respectively) plus the base 60 to get started, puts us at 205 points for the elite spec itself. That leaves 195 points for the unique skins and other fluff, which we can do at our leisure later on. Granted it’s just speculation based on the comments made, but if this is how it works out, it’s not terrible. Anyone that has map completion will essentially be set. People that have absolutely no HP need 21 maguuma challenges (or 20 + 5 core). WvWers need like 100-ish ranks (this might be the worst option for point acquisition, not sure how long typical wvw rank acquisition takes. i get 2 per hour in eotm usually. But, I digress. ).This seems relatively acceptable, in terms of effort required to unlock the elite functionality.

atlrising.5134:

Notice now how it blew up in their faces so they are being super silent and have nothing to say?

……At the time of your post it was about 5:30 AM in their timezone…….Not saying we will see more posting, but I don’t read forums when I am asleep either.

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

the biggest low blow is having to pay for content you wont get , because as far as i know we have to pay for the expansion+game as they are bundled but we have the game and we wont get an extra account to give away , you cant honestly tell me 1 or 2 character slots are gonna be compensation enough for it .

Vihar.5780:

I’ve been in games for some time now, many years. I know that no matter WHAT Anet did with the expansion, there would be a lot of complaining, particularly from PVE’rs.

[snip]

Well, that exactly points out why: 90% of the content seems to advertise teamplay: WvW, raids, guildquests. But as a solo PvE player I would like to do things when I am in the mood for it, at ease, taking as much time as I like. That way it would take years before I would gain enough hero points. And I know what I’m talking about. Same happened with the dailies, which slowed down my progress achievements dramatically while skipping fractals, WvW and boss hunts. Of course, everything needs to be earned, but why not simply by exploring the environment and slaying monsters?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I don’t understand the forums.

Previously: Everything is too easy! We have nothing to do! Give us something, anything to do!

Now: OMG! You want us to do stuff??? This is uncalled for! Way too much to do!

Poor Devs.

I have never, even once, complained about “nothing to do.” Ever.

I do not like grinding for core mechanics. Grind may be “something to do”, but it is not fun. Fun is exploring and adventuring.

Make skill points like masteries, account-wide. I’ll work for them once, then enjoy various aspects of different classes without senseless grind.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Vihar.5780:

40 heart quests is what we are basically talking about, right? By my reckoning, that adds up to about 15 hours at a VERY casual pace.

They’re not even heart quests, they’re Hero Points. The old Skill Points. Some are “beat this one enemy in a fight”, others are just “reach and interact with this thing”.

Wow.

This makes all the crying even more pathetic.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’ve said this in another thread, but I’ll reiterate here.

I think we need to stop looking at the “400” number and look at the assorted comments that have been made:

• 60 points to start using our elite
• should have all traits and skills unlocked right around the 200 point mark
• Skills and traits will unlock first (function over frill)

Personally, I’m thinking we need the standard 145 points for a spec/trait line unlock (60 + 85 respectively) plus the base 60 to get started, puts us at 205 points for the elite spec itself. That leaves 195 points for the unique skins and other fluff, which we can do at our leisure later on. Granted it’s just speculation based on the comments made, but if this is how it works out, it’s not terrible. Anyone that has map completion will essentially be set. People that have absolutely no HP need 21 maguuma challenges (or 20 + 5 core). WvWers need like 100-ish ranks (this might be the worst option for point acquisition, not sure how long typical wvw rank acquisition takes. i get 2 per hour in eotm usually. But, I digress. ).This seems relatively acceptable, in terms of effort required to unlock the elite functionality.

^

The sanest person on this thread. ^^

I doubt that unlocking the elite spec is going to be near as hard as people are fearing. If you already have hero points done then those will go towards unlock. A fair portion of the unlock may be going towards cosmetic fluff. It’s quite likely that the majority of people can unlock it at minumum just at login and others will be able to unlock the basic part at login or shortly after. The rest will be grinding for cosmetics.

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

No. That was in regards to core specializations before they made it so you only needed to be level 80 to have everything.

Again, they have stopped responding because it blew up in their face. I feel so bad for those who have to work with the customer end of this game because there are devs behind the scenes that have no clue what the player wants.

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Hmm if the points are the same for elite als basic traits and utilities and you can leave out base traits taking elite first. Then a reset and redistripution would be a good solution. Making new characters to get elite faster is a bit ridiculous.

Wolfric.9380:

Hmm if the points are the same for elite als basic traits and utilities and you can leave out base traits taking elite first. Then a reset and redistripution would be a good solution. Making new characters to get elite faster is a bit ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the elites don’t unlock until you buy all the base/core tracks. So all the points you get through level 80 go directly to that. I was hoping it wouldn’t work that way, so I could save points from unwanted trait/skill lines to invest in elites, but alas, they decided against it.

Though, it won’t be so bad if the cosmetic parts of the track were left to the end. I’m hoping the devs were at least that sensible. >.>

BrotherBelial.3094:

I agree with you, I understand where people are coming from, I really do. But, I do think people are forgetting that this has all been put in so people, oh I don’t know, have things to do in HoT. Why is with people wanting to put in the smallest amount of effort possible when it comes to games.

If they wanted us to have things to do, they could do something original like give us more maps, story to go with said maps, up the crafting to 500 for all professions, revamp the dungeons so they’re not the sad affair they are now, put in more fractal islands istead of making us grind the same one we’ve had already. And if they really really wanted us to have some stuff to do AND impress everybody at the same time, they’d revamp underwater combat to a state that’s both playable and fun and leave us all speachless with that amazing huge underground lake that’s illuminated by various minions of mordremoth and it’s choke full of stuff to see and experience. Instead they’ll have us grind four maps to the point where the word maguuma will cause vomit to some of us…

BrotherBelial.3094:

People complained for years the game was too easy. ANet ramps up the difficulty, people they say it’s too hard because they are getting one shoted in zurker gear.

Not the same people. Many many ppl were perfectly happy with the difficulty setting. People join in the forum noise when they’re not happy, when they are, they’re in game enjoying themselves. So as one crowd got satisfied (the make it harder folk), the previously satisfied crowd (was fine as it was folk) joined the forum noise to express their newly found dissatisfaction. Really, is it so hard to understand that? “People” aren’t a hive mind, there’s no collective anywhere. So “people” did this or that means absolutely nothing cause each time it’s -different- people.

BrotherBelial.3094:

But I will say this, part of me thinks that this was done so ANet had more time to balance the new specs. But that’s just my tinfoil hat wearing part of me.

This was done, all of it, to obfuscate the fact that this isn’t an expansion, but a big feature pack with some living story and a couple of features thrown in. Cause had they made this thing any less grindy than it already is, we’d be done with it in 2 weeks.

Let’s hope the next expansion (if the game doesn’t die off in the meanwhile) comes relatively soon and it’s a proper one…

Just a flesh wound.3589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’ve said this in another thread, but I’ll reiterate here.

I think we need to stop looking at the “400” number and look at the assorted comments that have been made:

• 60 points to start using our elite
• should have all traits and skills unlocked right around the 200 point mark
• Skills and traits will unlock first (function over frill)

Personally, I’m thinking we need the standard 145 points for a spec/trait line unlock (60 + 85 respectively) plus the base 60 to get started, puts us at 205 points for the elite spec itself. That leaves 195 points for the unique skins and other fluff, which we can do at our leisure later on. Granted it’s just speculation based on the comments made, but if this is how it works out, it’s not terrible. Anyone that has map completion will essentially be set. People that have absolutely no HP need 21 maguuma challenges (or 20 + 5 core). WvWers need like 100-ish ranks (this might be the worst option for point acquisition, not sure how long typical wvw rank acquisition takes. i get 2 per hour in eotm usually. But, I digress. ).This seems relatively acceptable, in terms of effort required to unlock the elite functionality.

^

The sanest person on this thread. ^^

I doubt that unlocking the elite spec is going to be near as hard as people are fearing. If you already have hero points done then those will go towards unlock. A fair portion of the unlock may be going towards cosmetic fluff. It’s quite likely that the majority of people can unlock it at minumum just at login and others will be able to unlock the basic part at login or shortly after. The rest will be grinding for cosmetics.

Lol to be fair, when I first saw the “it takes 400” comments, I did have to sit down for a minute. It took me a bit to step back and look at the assorted comments objectively.

Rauderi.8706:

Wolfric.9380:

Hmm if the points are the same for elite als basic traits and utilities and you can leave out base traits taking elite first. Then a reset and redistripution would be a good solution. Making new characters to get elite faster is a bit ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the elites don’t unlock until you buy all the base/core tracks. So all the points you get through level 80 go directly to that. I was hoping it wouldn’t work that way, so I could save points from unwanted trait/skill lines to invest in elites, but alas, they decided against it.

Though, it won’t be so bad if the cosmetic parts of the track were left to the end. I’m hoping the devs were at least that sensible. >.>

Yeah. That was my plan too until I saw Colin’s post.

atlrising.5134:

Again, they have stopped responding because it blew up in their face. I feel so bad for those who have to work with the customer end of this game because there are devs behind the scenes that have no clue what the player wants.

Actually curious now, what time zone are you? Its now 7:42 AM. Some of them might be there, but the ones that manage the customer and various teams are probably on there way in. And then there will be time for people to summarize a night’s worth of responses, check on critical issues with the builds that are currently running and such and then discuss with team members from there. I am not saying I am happy with how the information was relaid and that a more expansion blog posting wouldn’t have been better and include more core details but forum goers really don’t encourage dev’s to make more postings since if your not super careful you will excite someone either way. I don’t doubt that this thread doesn’t have enough hits already to have their attention so will expect to see more about this today in one form or another, but maybe let them make a cup of coffee first and catch up?

Nausicca.6038:

When Colin put his gun on my head to force me buying the xpac, he never said I had to play the game to unlock stuff.
I just want instant gratification. I don’t want to work in a videogame. Give meh the new legendaries now. Yes, before the launch. And I want an “instawin” skill.
And oh I want to use all the masteries at the same time, with all the stats in the game. When I’ll raid, I want to be able to click 1 and oneshot the last boss, who will drop me a full set of legendary armor, not the BS precursor.
Colin, plz, do it. Or I’ll quit ( but still play but ya know I’m a forum warrior, I have my pride).
No $$$ for you ever ANet. Nah.

Brb, diaper is full.

Yes, because thats exactly what everyone’s saying… Here, lets do you:

“I don’t like other people’s opinions! I make wuv wuv to Colin’s picture evwy night, before bed. How dare anyone say anything bad to Anet! These people, and their idea of whats “fun”. Fun is what my lord and master Colin, tells me is fun! Fun is grinding tokens 4 dayz, only to need MOAR tokens after that! Hahahahaa, I’m so happy! HAAHAHAHAHA……"

…

It would help to get a general, or detailed if available, breakdown on where the points total to the 400 mark. Talking with various people in game last night and a lot of them are fine with working towards cosmetic ends as long as the core abilities and mechanics are in place earlier in that 400 mark so that they can effectively play the class sooner rather than later. The other point that would potentially help people understand more is a sample of how many HP are in the first map that people encounter so that they could gauge more of what to expect. I like the goals to work towards but can get their excitement on wanting to be able to play the new elites through the new content as well. Will have to see what today holds.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

• should have all traits and skills unlocked right around the 200 point mark

This is just plain wrong.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

Tim.6450:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

• should have all traits and skills unlocked right around the 200 point mark

This is just plain wrong.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

Alright so I didn’t remember that one correctly. Doesn’t kill the theory completely.

It could well be set up to be front loaded in that the easiest things to get are the traits and skills. The part that requires the most points could be the cosmetic items and runes. This setup is actually how they have most of the game set up. You get the core skills and traits before you reach 80, way before level 80 for parts of it. But to make your char look good and get cosmetics is the grindy part. I have a feeling that most of the people who play the game can get the important parts unlocked at launch with the full unlock optional.

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

No they stated no such thing. Data mined is worthless until it is in the game. They have said this many, many times.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It could well be set up to be front loaded in that the easiest things to get are the traits and skills. The part that requires the most points could be the cosmetic items and runes. This setup is actually how they have most of the game set up. You get the core skills and traits before you reach 80, way before level 80 for parts of it. But to make your char look good and get cosmetics is the grindy part. I have a feeling that most of the people who play the game can get the important parts unlocked at launch with the full unlock optional.

I am hoping this is the approach they took, and based on the comment of ‘function over frill’, that would make sense.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It could well be set up to be front loaded in that the easiest things to get are the traits and skills. The part that requires the most points could be the cosmetic items and runes. This setup is actually how they have most of the game set up. You get the core skills and traits before you reach 80, way before level 80 for parts of it. But to make your char look good and get cosmetics is the grindy part. I have a feeling that most of the people who play the game can get the important parts unlocked at launch with the full unlock optional.

Read my previous post on this thread, the bolded part will explain it. Most likely you will still have some grandmasters (if not all) and an elite to do.

TheGrimm.5624:

It would help to get a general, or detailed if available, breakdown on where the points total to the 400 mark. Talking with various people in game last night and a lot of them are fine with working towards cosmetic ends as long as the core abilities and mechanics are in place earlier in that 400 mark so that they can effectively play the class sooner rather than later. The other point that would potentially help people understand more is a sample of how many HP are in the first map that people encounter so that they could gauge more of what to expect. I like the goals to work towards but can get their excitement on wanting to be able to play the new elites through the new content as well. Will have to see what today holds.

Exactly this. If there’s one question the devs should answer, it’s this one.

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

No they stated no such thing. Data mined is worthless until it is in the game. They have said this many, many times.

Should also point out that datamining from a month ago put us at 250 HP for the elite spec, which is more than the currently acquirable 214. Which already refutes Menadena’s statement.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I am hoping this is the approach they took, and based on the comment of ‘function over frill’, that would make sense.

I think I saw a picture of a the daredevil line where the minor adept trait was on the 3rd place so don’t expect much logic.

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

I think you are incorrect on this, as mentioned above. Again, I’m not absolutely certain, but I cannot recall anything where they said that elite specs could be 100% unlocked – I think data miners said that, not anet.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I don’t understand the forums.

Previously: Everything is too easy! We have nothing to do! Give us something, anything to do!

Now: OMG! You want us to do stuff??? This is uncalled for! Way too much to do!

Poor Devs.

You don’t understand. People do want things to do. Those things are masteries, fractals, raids, WvW, and PvP leagues. That’s key.

What a lot of people don’t want is a kitten character that needs grinding to be unlocked. The worst part is FORCING people to unlock all other traitlines first before getting the elite spec. Why should someone unlock traitlines they don’t want?

It would have been much better for ANET to refund all hero points and allow people to spec however they wanted very similar to the way WvW works.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Pezz.4758:

they are different people is it that hard to understand?

im fairly new to the game, ive never made a too easy post or anything.
im just a little disappointed that i wont get to experience nearly 50% of the new maps without the spec i basically stayed around the game to get into.

im sorry i didnt mean to offend anyone im just saying how i feel.
and that is disappointed.

You have to play the expansion’s content in order to unlock the expansion’s mechanics. Is that too hard to understand?

Sirendor.1394:

Well.. the devs misunderstood.

-> Players: “Too easy”

• Easy = not hard
• Players: “Hard = challenging!”
• Devs “Hard = timeconsuming!”
• But: timeconsuming =/= hard!
• Timeconsuming = grindy
  -> Players: “Too much grind”

gavyne.6847:

You do know how to read right? I clearly stated hero points, and you do have to grind hero points for each and every character you want to unlock elite specs for. Masteries aside.

Grind is not “time consuming”. Grind is not “playing through the game’s content multiple times.”

Grind in the context of video games refers to the repetitious act of repeating the same singular activity over and over.

Doing 40 different hero challenges? Not grind.

Doing 40 different hero challenges on multiple characters? Not grind.

Doing the same singular hero challenge over and over? Grind.

Doing the same singular event in hopes of getting that RNG drop called Sam? Grind.

Please people, get your dictionaries out and know what the words you are using actually mean!

There there pats shoulder

In the context of a video game like GW2… making the game timeconsuming (but easy) is the same as making it grindy. The game is timeconsuming in the fact that it requires you to repeat easy actions countless times (= grindy).

I didn’t want to include all hidden premisses, thought it was clear to everyone? But yeah I wouldn’t mind doing different content each time, but repeating hero challenges PER character is obviously grindy in the sense that it’s timeconsuming, and timeconsuming in the sense that it’s grindy.