Guild Wars 2

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

Jerus.4350:

snip

Sure, except that every MMO I’ve played has ceased to satisfy me because of their focus. I believe that GW 2 has evolved to provide what the other MMOs don’t focus on. And sure it would be nice if Anet could provide everything, but I wouldn’t want to take away work from one thing to bring in something other games are doing fine.

I’m thinking Anet is trying to strengthen what makes this game different.

Ehh, EQ would (and still does I believe) put out about 12 open world zones with each expansion, this is where most people spend most of their time. In those they’ll have 1-3 group instances which only a handful get their own art, most are simply cutouts of the open world areas. Then on top they’ll have 1 raid per zone and a final raid zone only for raids, again most raids are done in instanced versions of the open world.

They put out a lot more content than GW2 (old graphics I’m sure are much cheaper/easier), but the point is they give a little bit of everything, and cut corners by doubling up on art.

Imagine if they took the Glint’s Lair zone and reworked it into a fractal/dungeon, no need for art time, big dip in resource costs. They could do the same with a cutout of the Maze portion of SW. I imagine they could have reworked all of Silverwastes into a Borderlands option for WvW as well, and maybe even found a portion to make a new PVP map out of.

This is the type of stuff I’d like to see. And GW2 is not the only game to have a focus on open world

It may not be the ONLY game to focus on the open world, but it’s surely the only themepark MMO that’s not centered on open world PvP combat that I’ve played. See I’m a PvE’er. I want a PvE MMO that focuses on the open world. I haven’t found many.

EQ isn’t focused on the open world. You can’t get max anything from the open world. The best gear isn’t from the open world. Eventually most people are funneled into dungeons and raiding. At least that’s how it was when I looked at it.

But who cares about best gear when the gear you can get accomplishes the goal just fine. In fact one of my big issues with the game was that getting raid geared trivialized the open world (which even as a raider was where I spent most of my time). Raid geared groups would pull half a zone and slaughter it just to keep entertained. And, it wasn’t “ohh they can get so many more rewards” it was more “man this is lame.”

I will say that the general player who were in open world hated my groups because as a raider we did lockdown half the open world. If we had multiple groups in the zone we basically locked it all down and they had no room to play. Again one of those issues with open world, but the stigma wasn’t as much about “kitten those raiders getting everything” as much as “this is pretty stupid that raiders don’t have their own zone to play in that’s fit for them.” Which they actually did for a few expansions until it became too much of a burden on the development.

I don’t meant to paint EQ as perfection, but Open World was where pretty much everyone spent most of their play time. Though as I said before, it wasn’t everyone’s focus, everybody loved different play types and kept playing for their particular preferences. That game also killed PVP by about 4 years in through poor choices and the refusal to split PVP and PVE skills/effects, a mistake I think this game is making as well but in reverse.

No one cares about the best gear if there are other ways to progression. Now I didn’t play EQ when it first came out, because I knew myself. I was working, had a family and couldn’t afford to addict myself to a game like that. So I passed it by.

By the time I started playing MMOs, WoW was the one people were playing but I’ve since tried many others.

In most games stats on gear IS progression. In most games that’s how you move your character forward. Most games didn’t downlevel you. Most games didn’t encourage you to go back to old zones. Most games didn’t give you a progression path that didn’t force you into instances. That’s just the way it is.

By the time I looked at EQ it was too dated to interest me, but EQ 2 was horrid. Guild Wars 2 is the first game to check most (but not all) of my boxes.

If I game were to come along to check more of my boxes, I’d be happy to play it…but I don’t see anything coming down the pike that particularly interests me.

I hear ya on enjoying GW2, many aspects of it satiate the desires I’ve had for games for a long time.

Most notably so as it not only pertains to this situation but solves one of the things I’ve seen as an issue in other games is it’s lack of “progression”

See, progression isn’t necessarily a positive thing. In EQ for instance progression simply helped trivialize content. Your tanks that were having to play well alongside their healers when first beating content would eventually do so easily by just being geared better.

I see that as a complete negative aspect. Encounters will naturally become easier as you perfect them, but to on top of that make them less challenging because of overgearing, well, that’s just double dipping on making content become boring.

So again, that’s why I never saw raid content in Open World as an issue of “omg he’s so powerful” as much as “well this sucks.”

GW2 absolved that issue with it’s avoidance of that gear treadmill.

To get back to what started this conversation though, my point was just that a focus on Open World content isn’t exclusive to GW2, it’s more that GW2 does a lot of awesome things, and those awesome things are what make it great. It doesn’t mean that it should bury different content aspects in favor of others though. It should strive to be that perfect MMO which it can be.

I play games for their content, to do things that entertain me. I see gear treadmills, or even complex “trait acquisitions” and all forms of progression as nothing more than a nuisance that I must overcome to sink my teeth into the meat of the game which is it’s content. That’s why when I look at GW2 I can’t help but feel disappointed in that so many aspects are as perfect as I’ve seen, but the meat of it is dry, bland and scarce.

And, lastly to add, I still see EQ as superior to all other gen1 MMOs (WoW/EQ2 included in that) in that it’s content was so much more developed and intricate. The dev team there was great, reacting to growing metas with content to counter them and change things up. Really some brilliant people there.

PS. I realize I have a lot of food/eating related metaphores, eating dinner right now, just put me in the mood

I still maintain that a focus on the open world is exclusive to Guild Wars 2, at least in the sense of a modern MMO. Other MMOs may have an open world, but they don’t focus on it. Rift is another example of a game that has an open world, but it was just a way to get people into raids and dungeons. The more time and energy that a game company puts into dungeons and raids, the worse it is for people who don’t care about that stuff. But it’s not just the time invested.

Hard, competitive PvP and raiding and dungeon speed running all over something in common. They bring a group of people to MMOs that play competitively, instead of cooperatively. Most games doesn’t have truly cooperative PvE. Guild Wars 2 does. Even that has changed a bit, since some of the harder events that have come out pressure some players to yell at other players who are afk, not as good, don’t know what to do, don’t listen in map chat or whatever. I find these things make the game less fun to play. Not the people who are bad at the game but the drama that goes on when a good player feels the need to berate people they see as not pulling their weight. It takes the game down a notch for me. So the whole dungeon thing isn’t just let’s have everything. Because I’m not interested in everything. There are plenty of games that do have dungeons and center around them. I believe the success of this game is going to be focusing on what other games aren’t providing.

As for progression being a good or bad thing, you’re thinking of progression in any one way. I consider story progression progression as well. If I’m progressing through a story that’s progression too. So the type of progression I crave is not stat or power progression. But I still want to see myself moving forward somehow.

Most MMOs, in order to progress the stories, you have to play the dungeons and eventually raid. Not all but all the ones I’ve tried…and I’ve tried plenty.

I’m seeing emphasis on group content for the HOTS release. Now what that actually means, I have no idea.

I’m buying anyways. I’ve played since headstart and have only payed $60, and a couple of gemstore purchases. That great price has lasted me for 2+ years and many more to come. I’ll gladly support them.

Progression in the sense you speak of is simply content. I’m all for it.

But a game without challenge isn’t really a game, it’s more of an interactive movie. You get to make choices but in the end its’ just to see stuff not to actually do stuff.

I hear ya on Open world drama, IMO the most toxic element of this game is the Open World berating that I see. In dungeons it’s more of an attempt to segregate themselves from eachother to play with those more of like mind. In Open World it’s pure hate. In dungeons people post LFGs with notes of what they want, people kick those who don’t fit those criteria, I don’t see a problem with that at all. People have the right to try to play with those they want to. But, Open world is designed such that you play with anyone and everyone. When the hate spikes up there it’s nothing but disappointing to me, as “dude deal with the situation, stop blaming others because you can’t overcome the situation” but that’s one of those issues with open world. The challenge becomes trying to fill a map with likeminded individuals who don’t suck the fun out of things. And it’s not really possible.

Challenge is what games are about. Every game has certain levels of mastery, and the better you get the more successful you are. A few exclusions revolve around simple Luck based games, but most games have a level of expertise in them. Even Poker which is highly Luck based has a very high level of mastery where you have some people who are able to consistently win against less experienced opponents.

I’d look at ANets claims of “challenging group content” even they realize the desire of people and that it needs to remain a goal in development. The question is whether they’ll be able to follow through on such promises without delving into instanced content. We’ve already seen the Wyvren encounter and how it seems to limit the amount of players inside, That’s because of the ease in developing content with a limit on the size, it renders the benefits of zergs null.

I don’t consider myself an Elistist snob, but I do like a challenge. I don’t go into map chat and contribute to the toxicity I just lose interest when I’m held down by players who simply don’t care about the outcome.

I want some challenging content that I can go play with friends and enjoy. I feel that’s what multiplayer games are about. I don’t think that’s wrong. If a game was able to come up with a way to have open world provide that I’d claim it was the greatest design ever, overcoming a feat that has been failed for the last 15+ years. I just don’t have much faith in it being done as I’ve yet to see it or hear ideas on how it can be done.

Vix.6730:

No. More. Dungeons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpR6LhBhW4 @4:15

Q. When will we get more dungeon and fractals, any kind of dungeon related changes? Another question is hard mode for dungeons or the setting of difficulty?

A.

• Hard Mode is something they’re staying away from at that point.
• Looked at ideas to improve longevity of dungeons.
• TA was a serious amount of work, another rework like that is not something they want to commit to.
• Fractals are a more flexible system that will hopefully allow them to add smaller chunks of content without the amount of work it takes to redo a dungeon.
• Want to make smaller changes to dungeons rather than larger ones.

(22/08/2014)

Where in there does it say they’re never going to add more dungeons?

Focus on open world may be unique to GW2 but it sure is too much focus. There is literally nothing in open world that would force you to utilize any other skills apart from auto attack. (I’m aware of the fact that TT and Tequatl need the occasional reflect, but i see so many mesmers/guardians ignore that, that it just serves to prove the point.)

That is not challenging, and if open world right now is challenging for people and anet creates new encounters based on that, then the future “challenging group content” will be abysmal.

I understand that we need this kind of stuff to keep the crowd happy but the game has a really great combat system and some of us want to actually use it.

I came back to GW2 after a 2 year break because I was getting a hankering for MMOs again. I went to PAX and played their FF14 Hardmode Shiva Challenge and I totally loved it. I remembered I love fighting big bosses with changing mechanics in a moderate sized group.

I left before fractals were a thing but they’re what I’ve been doing mostly. I’d love to see more of these (small “dungeons”) but with more challenging fights. And I don’t mean harder hitting but mechanics wise. Everyone hates Cliffside Fractal but it’s honestly my favorite one because of the teamwork needed.

People have mentioned in this thread that they want raids akin to other MMOs; that’s fine but I don’t want fights based around the old “Tank and Spank” format the Trinity provided.

serenke.4806:

Focus on open world may be unique to GW2 but it sure is too much focus. There is literally nothing in open world that would force you to utilize any other skills apart from auto attack. (I’m aware of the fact that TT and Tequatl need the occasional reflect, but i see so many mesmers/guardians ignore that, that it just serves to prove the point.)

That is not challenging, and if open world right now is challenging for people and anet creates new encounters based on that, then the future “challenging group content” will be abysmal.

I understand that we need this kind of stuff to keep the crowd happy but the game has a really great combat system and some of us want to actually use it.

Teq and TT were steps in the right direction for challenging content. Groups that consistently run TT aka TTS fail all the time. It’s not a guaranteed win. Could it be harder? Of course but that’s what ANET is looking to bring in the expac. “Raid-like” content in the open world that challenges players more than what they’ve done. I’m not expecting anything awesome or perfect but ANET has learned from those encounters.

Sorin.4310:

Killface.1896:

Its a expansion ofc we get dungeons

That’s the exact same way i felt when i read his comment.

Einlanzer.1627:

I don’t think it’s acceptable to not maintain dungeon content in an MMORPG. TYou cannot get the same type of immersion from open world content that you get in dungeon content, end of story. They need to hire some people to work on it and get it right.

That’s complete nonsense.

EQ and DAoC were more immersive than 99% of modern MMORPGs, including GW2 and WoW.

Neither of them had instanced dungeons in their early years, and when they were added, it reduced immersion, rather than increasing it.

So the only “end of story” is that you are wrong, and demonstrably so.

Sorry Jerus, but I can’t say that every game is about challenge, or challenge is what makes a game. You can play house as a kid and that’s a game, and it’s not about challenge. You can play a game of catch and that’s not challenging either. Some people play games to relax. In fact, just about every sport, as challenging as it is, also have people that play that sport just for fun.

I wonder how many people play Baseball competitive, as compared to how many people go and hit a ball around. They’re both games, but not everyone plays them competitively.

Many people play games to relax.

Vayne.8563:

Sorry Jerus, but I can’t say that every game is about challenge, or challenge is what makes a game. You can play house as a kid and that’s a game, and it’s not about challenge. You can play a game of catch and that’s not challenging either. Some people play games to relax. In fact, just about every sport, as challenging as it is, also have people that play that sport just for fun.

I wonder how many people play Baseball competitive, as compared to how many people go and hit a ball around. They’re both games, but not everyone plays them competitively.

Many people play games to relax.

More to the point, 95% of people who run dungeons (not fractals) regularly do not run them for challenge or for fun (in the usual sense).

They run them for profit of a very straightforward in-game financial nature.

So putting in more content which will see most people use it solely for getting cash money whilst taking the M out of MMO? Perhaps not a good priority for a game which helped put the M back into MMO when many games were moving away from it.

It also seems like a pretty small percentage of the population actually does dungeons regularly. I don’t have figures and I’m not sure how one would obtain them, but anecdotally, it sure seems that way.

(Fractals are distinct from dungeons and more people who run those do run them for challenge or to get things other than cash money or stuff that can be sold for cash money – but I think they’re more likely to be added to, as well)

EDIT – Additionally, on top of taking the M out of MMO, dungeons encourage the exclusion of a lot of players, because most regular dungeon runners are speed-running for cash. Which is fine, in and of itself, but obviously has a strong exclusionary effect on other players who want to do those dungeons, but who either aren’t geared enough, or not skilled enough, or don’t want to speed run. I’m not suggesting changing anything, but if new dungeons got used the same way – as speedy ways of gaining cash for a small elite of players who exclude the larger casual group of players, well, does that help ArenaNet? Does that help GW2? No. The people who want that can keep doing it, but there’s no logical reason to create more content like that.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vix.6730:

No. More. Dungeons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpR6LhBhW4 @4:15

Q. When will we get more dungeon and fractals, any kind of dungeon related changes? Another question is hard mode for dungeons or the setting of difficulty?

A.

• Hard Mode is something they’re staying away from at that point.
• Looked at ideas to improve longevity of dungeons.
• TA was a serious amount of work, another rework like that is not something they want to commit to.
• Fractals are a more flexible system that will hopefully allow them to add smaller chunks of content without the amount of work it takes to redo a dungeon.
• Want to make smaller changes to dungeons rather than larger ones.

(22/08/2014)

Where in there does it say they’re never going to add more dungeons?

There is also the fact that they quite publically fired their entire dungeon team, which is why most people assume they won’t ever introduce new dungeons. There was a very involved and active dungeon team that brought us Molten Facility and Aetherblade (Not the TA one) Dungeons. They butted heads pretty badly with the higher ups and they ended up all getting let go.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vix.6730:

No. More. Dungeons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpR6LhBhW4 @4:15

Q. When will we get more dungeon and fractals, any kind of dungeon related changes? Another question is hard mode for dungeons or the setting of difficulty?

A.

• Hard Mode is something they’re staying away from at that point.
• Looked at ideas to improve longevity of dungeons.
• TA was a serious amount of work, another rework like that is not something they want to commit to.
• Fractals are a more flexible system that will hopefully allow them to add smaller chunks of content without the amount of work it takes to redo a dungeon.
• Want to make smaller changes to dungeons rather than larger ones.

(22/08/2014)

Where in there does it say they’re never going to add more dungeons?

There is also the fact that they quite publically fired their entire dungeon team, which is why most people assume they won’t ever introduce new dungeons. There was a very involved and active dungeon team that brought us Molten Facility and Aetherblade (Not the TA one) Dungeons. They butted heads pretty badly with the higher ups and they ended up all getting let go.

I thought that it was only Robert that left and the team was disbanded and distributed into the Living Story teams?

TheDaiBish.9735:

I thought that it was only Robert that left and the team was disbanded and distributed into the Living Story teams?

That’s my understanding, but maybe Zudet has more people who left. It kind of sounds like one of those overblown MMO rumours, though – i.e. key person leaves so supposedly the entire team leaves, as if they were some kind of military unit. Which is pretty much the opposite of how most dev houses work.

I hope there are no new dungeons in HoT. It’s way too much work for Anet just to give us a new pretty textures for ’zerker corner-stacking. Just increase/decrease your screen brightness and/or gamma and do the old dungeons – you now have the same result as you would with a new dungeon.

I would effing love dungeons that scaled from 1 to 5 people, or even more. Only have 2 people? No problem! (I’m talking about running the dungeon normally, I realize there are some people who can duo a number of dungeons in GW2, that’s not what I’m talking about here)

none.9681:

It’s way too much work for Anet just to give us a new pretty textures for ’zerker corner-stacking.

Matter of design.

I think that we will get new dungs bcuz:
a) new legendaries
b) new legendaries will be connected with mordremoth in some way I think? (at least I hope they will have lore behind them)
c) legendaries need dungeon tokens
d) why mordremoth related legendary weapon should use CoE tokens to craft it?

Personally, I think the Tower of Nightmares would make a great dungeon.

Neox.3497:

We need instanced content. But not dungeons, we need raids. And actually I would qualify most world bosses as raid bosses but they are far too easy and the fact that randoms can ruin these for you (by upscaling/interacting with wrong objects) makes “challenging” world bosses no fun.

No. “You” need raids.

“We” don’t.

Seven years of WoW and an active real life make raids a no-go for me. And the recent failure of raid-focused games indicates I’m not alone.

Not that I’m against other people playing raids, so long as ANet doesn’t kitten the rest of the game to add raid content.

But “we” don’t “need” raids.

That said,

Draknar.5748:

I would effing love dungeons that scaled from 1 to 5 people, or even more. Only have 2 people? No problem! (I’m talking about running the dungeon normally, I realize there are some people who can duo a number of dungeons in GW2, that’s not what I’m talking about here)

Scaling, please!

I’d love to 2-3 man some of the dungeons with friends and family.
Or even solo (without the limited scope that can be scaled now.)

If they can make Arah soloable, please do the other dungeons as well.

Dungeons failed I expect fractals and open PvE.

I really do think instanced content either being dungeons or raids are necessary in GW2. The open world is not strong enough on its own.

This was an interesting discussion. I only want to add a suggestion that was implied earlier in the thread. We need open world content where groups are required not only to beat bosses but also to navigate the zone.

I’d rather not buy it if there’s no instanced content at all.

I mean if we go there… it’s not even Guild Wars anymore. It’s just some cash shop game that throws out a lot of updates for marketing’s sake… but all the gameplay will be gone.

nopoet.2960:

This was an interesting discussion. I only want to add a suggestion that was implied earlier in the thread. We need open world content where groups are required not only to beat bosses but also to navigate the zone.

Yes, a very important point. If the zones can just be skipped or soloed, it would defeat the whole purpose. I yearn for a whole zone with a Nightmare Tower flavour so badly. I don’t want to get too excited but I believe that’s what is in store for HoT.

Sytherek.7689:

Neox.3497:

We need instanced content. But not dungeons, we need raids. And actually I would qualify most world bosses as raid bosses but they are far too easy and the fact that randoms can ruin these for you (by upscaling/interacting with wrong objects) makes “challenging” world bosses no fun.

No. “You” need raids.

“We” don’t.

Seven years of WoW and an active real life make raids a no-go for me. And the recent failure of raid-focused games indicates I’m not alone.

Not that I’m against other people playing raids, so long as ANet doesn’t kitten the rest of the game to add raid content.

But “we” don’t “need” raids.

That said,

You didn’t even read my whole text.

That said.

Jerus.4350:

In Open World it’s pure hate. In dungeons people post LFGs with notes of what they want, people kick those who don’t fit those criteria, I don’t see a problem with that at all. People have the right to try to play with those they want to. But, Open world is designed such that you play with anyone and everyone. When the hate spikes up there it’s nothing but disappointing to me, as “dude deal with the situation, stop blaming others because you can’t overcome the situation” but that’s one of those issues with open world. The challenge becomes trying to fill a map with likeminded individuals who don’t suck the fun out of things. And it’s not really possible.

I take it you base this on whatever pug maps you hop into and have never been in a map organized by a specific guild? Because it definitely IS possible to fill a map with likeminded individuals, and people do it all the time. The only reason it isnt done more is that wurm is basically the only boss you need to do it on since VW and teq are easy enough to do with pugs (not exactly a bad thing, since even a handful of uncooperative players wont ruin the map for everyone, but it would be nice if VW was a little harder).

Same thing with dungeons. Join random groups and some of them will be filled with hateful trolls that yell at anyone not playing a warrior (warrior best dps111!), and some will be regular people that just want to play the game.

But seeing how the game is way more designed for open world content (see the 9000 threads about “How to fix the zerker meta” every day), and that way, way more people do it then dungeons (mostly guessing here), and that the devs are already giving info about world bosses, i wouldnt bet my money on any dungeons anytime soon.

Besides the solution to “open world content is too easy and pug friendly” shouldnt be to spend more time on dungeons (because this world totally needs another wow clone), it should be to do events right. And they better find a way to do it after 3 years, because otherwise this is going to be one boring xpac after like the first week.

Sizer.5632:

I take it you base this on whatever pug maps you hop into and have never been in a map organized by a specific guild? Because it definitely IS possible to fill a map with likeminded individuals, and people do it all the time.

But that isn’t consumer friendly at all.
It’s no fun having to wait for someone to find a potentially emtpy map and when someone found one to tell 100 people to join the map by creating and joining taxis and to hide just to see that the last 15 players can’t join or that the map isn’t empty at all because random people are there or even because another organization jumped on that map.
It’s simply impractical and anet should add a system that makes this easier. And once they did that there can be even more harder world bosses.

Depends on the elite specs tbh. I enjoy fractals a lot and would love a new dungeon that lives up to the same difficulty level, but I doubt we’ll see any instanced group content in HoT. However I also enjoy WvW quite a bit, so if there are enough interesting gameplay changes with how the classes work, I’d buy it.

Currently that’s still a no though. I don’t play mesmer a lot and guardian/necro specs had some interesting bits to them but not enough for me to actually spend money on it.

Dungeons are horrible in this game and offer no challenge whatsoever. There is no synergy between party members, other than a simple combo system and group-wide buffs/heals that aren’t engaging.

Running past/invising through the majority of the dungeon only to occasionally stop and stack tightly in a corner while spamming your abilities on cooldown is what the average dungeon-runner can expect to do in this game.

Sizer.5632:

Jerus.4350:

In Open World it’s pure hate. In dungeons people post LFGs with notes of what they want, people kick those who don’t fit those criteria, I don’t see a problem with that at all. People have the right to try to play with those they want to. But, Open world is designed such that you play with anyone and everyone. When the hate spikes up there it’s nothing but disappointing to me, as “dude deal with the situation, stop blaming others because you can’t overcome the situation” but that’s one of those issues with open world. The challenge becomes trying to fill a map with likeminded individuals who don’t suck the fun out of things. And it’s not really possible.

I take it you base this on whatever pug maps you hop into and have never been in a map organized by a specific guild? Because it definitely IS possible to fill a map with likeminded individuals, and people do it all the time. The only reason it isnt done more is that wurm is basically the only boss you need to do it on since VW and teq are easy enough to do with pugs (not exactly a bad thing, since even a handful of uncooperative players wont ruin the map for everyone, but it would be nice if VW was a little harder).

Same thing with dungeons. Join random groups and some of them will be filled with hateful trolls that yell at anyone not playing a warrior (warrior best dps111!), and some will be regular people that just want to play the game.

But seeing how the game is way more designed for open world content (see the 9000 threads about “How to fix the zerker meta” every day), and that way, way more people do it then dungeons (mostly guessing here), and that the devs are already giving info about world bosses, i wouldnt bet my money on any dungeons anytime soon.

Besides the solution to “open world content is too easy and pug friendly” shouldnt be to spend more time on dungeons (because this world totally needs another wow clone), it should be to do events right. And they better find a way to do it after 3 years, because otherwise this is going to be one boring xpac after like the first week.

Ohh I’ve manipulated the Megaservers quite a bit, we did it a LOT during CP. But it’s annoying and takes time.

If they can make it smoother, I think they can pull off the “challenging group content” with lower cap “megaserver zones” for these encounters, but it’s really just pseudo-instancing, but it does feel more natural.

I will say it’s not a matter of finding a way to do it after “3 years” but more about the entire genre finding a way to do it after 15+ years. The devs have quite a task to conquer. It’s something that’s eluded every other game I’ve ever played.

Leodon.1564:

Dungeons are horrible in this game and offer no challenge whatsoever. There is no synergy between party members, other than a simple combo system and group-wide buffs/heals that aren’t engaging.

Running past/invising through the majority of the dungeon only to occasionally stop and stack tightly in a corner while spamming your abilities on cooldown is what the average dungeon-runner can expect to do in this game.

Right on the nail, sir.

I stopped playing dungeons years ago because they really weren’t fun as played by the majority of the game’s population. Speed runs bore me, and it takes forever to find a non-speed 5-man group in LFG.

I’m disappointed. In beta/early days, I really wanted dungeons to be fun.

Make them scale, and I can play them with whatever friends and family are available, in non-speed-run mode.

Einlanzer.1627:

I don’t think it’s acceptable to not maintain dungeon content in an MMORPG. TYou cannot get the same type of immersion from open world content that you get in dungeon content, end of story. They need to hire some people to work on it and get it right.

See I dont think going out of your way to maintain a low use instance with poor rewards that takes a huge amount of development time should ever take presidents over other content.

Edit: that is unless they change dungeons from the way they currently are and make them something fun to run. I don’t mind doing them with a guild team but the skip content speed run stack in the corner only serra on class welcome meta is stupid.