Guild Wars 2

Harper.4173:

I understand the need for this gate – I do not understand why they “lied” and said that their raids will have no gates.

Please I am just curious, where did they say this and exactly what did they say… Some people have a tendency to misinterpret what they actually say.

It is clearly gated behind masteries but I don’t realy see it that way as Raid content is something to do after Story and to do story you need those masteries that you abvously need for the raid.

Edit: What I mean is that even if they didn’t gate it behind masteries they would still have lied as Raid content is gated by level wich you normally gain by doing Story and other content of the game.

Vayne.8563:

Beast Sos.1457:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

I’m actually perfectly fine with raids being locked behind masteries.
Ley line gliding from gliders, stealth detection from Nuhock, adrenaline shrooms from Itzel and at least exalted assistence from the Exalted line should be a requirement for raids. Otherwise most masteries would be pointless. Map completions don’t even require you to have them with all the portaling mesmers and portal to a friend.
I would be very happy if the masteries I worked for were useful and mandatory in the end game content.

That is pretty much the same kitten thing as a gear grind but with a different name. If this happens Gw2 wont be different than any other MMO out there with a gear treadmill.

Well no, because raids will give you the experience you need to level masteries too> If you don’t like open world content you’ll be able to level by doing raids.

I have no problem whatsoever with raid content being locked behind present mastery levels nor wings/mastery levels to be built on in the future, with one significant reservation/consideration.

Right now doing hero points and POI/ waypoints/Hero points (including those in starter zones and cities) give a comparable amount of XP to completing fractals.

To make this clear: An entire fractal XP similar to a single POI scaled to level 80 for mastery.

From my combat log:

XP: from fractal completion: 3200
XP: from wapoint: 3200
XP from POI: 2001
XP from Vista: 2001

I do a lot of fractals every day, and I’m sure other people out there do a lot more and know even better than I do how abysmal the xp is. If the xp for Raids is like this, this will be unfortunate. I have no problem exploring other areas of the game than those of my primary interest, and reward tracks that require some branching out are ok, I don’t mind that. Sinking my finite play time into content I don’t enjoy/doesn’t challenge me/has grown stale- whatever the reason is that I don’t enjoy it- in order to (buy/craft gear) unlock the content I do enjoy is tolerable up to a point, but there are limits.

What griiiiiiiiiind people :S? 3 Days of enjoying the content and i’m not even fan of PvE and i’m almost full.. People please stop exaggerating! TY..

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Harper.4173:

I understand the need for this gate – I do not understand why they “lied” and said that their raids will have no gates.

Please I am just curious, where did they say this and exactly what did they say… Some people have a tendency to misinterpret what they actually say.

It is clearly gated behind masteries but I don’t realy see it that way as Raid content is something to do after Story and to do story you need those masteries that you abvously need for the raid.

Edit: What I mean is that even if they didn’t gate it behind masteries they would still have lied as Raid content is gated by level wich you normally gain by doing Story and other content of the game.

Colin Johanson said "There won’t be an attunement system, either. As Johanson puts it, players should be able to simply “form up, play the raid, and have a great time.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/raids-are-coming-to-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

So yes – you can simply form up and raid without having gates in entering the raid – but they omitted to add that the gates will be inside the raid.

Notice how his statement ends with “play the raid and have a great time” – omitting to add that if you don’t have the required masteries your progress will be capped and you will be unable to progress.

The “great time” implies that once players enter the raid they can complete the raid since I believe having a “great time” in any form of MMO content also implies completing that content. I doubt it referred to the situation in which you progressed until you couldn’t anymore and had to quit – I don’t know how many would consider that a “great time”.

This is a classic example of lying by omission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission

The level gate – and that being a lie – I don’t really see it because as far as I remember HoT was specifically advertised as a post-level 80 expansion.

No…. It’s a grind. I’ve been playing a few hours each day since launch because that’s all the time I have to devote to guild wars. I’m at mastery rank 13, working on the second tier Itsel mastery trying to inch my way to poison immunity. I dread how long it’s going to take me to get tier 4-5 in each line as I fear that’s what Raids will be gated behind.

We gave A-net our money for raids and we want to play them when they are available, not 1-2 months after the fact.

NayNay.7680:

No…. It’s a grind. I’ve been playing a few hours each day since launch because that’s all the time I have to devote to guild wars. I’m at mastery rank 13, working on the second tier Itsel mastery trying to inch my way to poison immunity. I dread how long it’s going to take me to get tier 4-5 in each line as I fear that’s what Raids will be gated behind.

We gave A-net our money for raids and we want to play them when they are available, not 1-2 months after the fact.

I doubt you’ll need Auric mining for raids, I doubt you’ll need Adren Mushroom for raids, I doubt you’ll need any of the champ fights for raids, I doubt you’ll need Chak Acid for raids (at least for the first wing).

Stop exaggerating requirements – you do not need to max masteries…

NayNay.7680:

No…. It’s a grind. I’ve been playing a few hours each day since launch because that’s all the time I have to devote to guild wars. I’m at mastery rank 13, working on the second tier Itsel mastery trying to inch my way to poison immunity. I dread how long it’s going to take me to get tier 4-5 in each line as I fear that’s what Raids will be gated behind.

We gave A-net our money for raids and we want to play them when they are available, not 1-2 months after the fact.

You can no longer just play and rank up masteries – with limited time you have to become efficient.
You musts use boosters – usually use them on a character you’ll only do the jungle with in order to maximize their efficiency – birthday boosters are the best.
My advice is this – do Tarir defense – it’ll give you around 80k xp in total.
Do hero challenges that spawn champions every day – there are 3 in verdant brink and 5 in Auric Basin ( 6 but one is hard to get to and requires leyline gliding) – each will give 26k xp. That’s an easy way to farm XP and map currency.

That’s all i got so far. The last 2 maps I haven’t really done.

Coulter.2315:

I doubt you’ll need Auric mining for raids, I doubt you’ll need Adren Mushroom for raids, I doubt you’ll need any of the champ fights for raids, I doubt you’ll need Chak Acid for raids (at least for the first wing).

Stop exaggerating requirements – you do not need to max masteries…

Oh?

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

I’m actually perfectly fine with raids being locked behind masteries.
Ley line gliding from gliders, stealth detection from Nuhock, adrenaline shrooms from Itzel and at least exalted assistence from the Exalted line should be a requirement for raids. Otherwise most masteries would be pointless. Map completions don’t even require you to have them with all the portaling mesmers and portal to a friend.
I would be very happy if the masteries I worked for were useful and mandatory in the end game content.

Ley line gliding rank 6, Nuhoch stealth rank 4, Adrenal mushrooms rank 6, Exalted assistance rank 3

It seems as though other players are making higher assumptions than I, so I can only assume the worst. That is all.

Yeah, this is crying about needing to play the expansion to play the raids. Just like the crying about needing to play the expansion to fully unlock the elites. Or the crying about needing to start the story to unlock the mastery system in core Tyria.

“I paid my money, why can’t I do everything right now.”

Raids are designed with Masteries in mind. Might be ANet should announce what mysteries are required for the first ring in advance so that people can prepare for it.

Man, this argument is just nuts to me. If you want to raid you must be of a certain mindset that enjoys doing pve content. If you’re playing GW2 you must be a person who likes GW2. What the heck is the problem with requiring you to prepare for the raid in a way that is natural and fluid just by doing their content which you paid to play in the first place?
I mean jeez, was it a “gate” to require you to get your characters to level 80 before you did certain dungeons? Why weren’t you complaining about that?
WTF kind of expansion would it be if there was literally no progression required at all? Im so glad none of you decided to go into game design.

Near.7439:

Man, this argument is just nuts to me. If you want to raid you must be of a certain mindset that enjoys doing pve content. If you’re playing GW2 you must be a person who likes GW2. What the heck is the problem with requiring you to prepare for the raid in a way that is natural and fluid just by doing their content which you paid to play in the first place?
I mean jeez, was it a “gate” to require you to get your characters to level 80 before you did certain dungeons? Why weren’t you complaining about that?
WTF kind of expansion would it be if there was literally no progression required at all? Im so glad none of you decided to go into game design.

What is the problem with being able to gain a reasonable amount of XP inside of raids?

Beast Sos.1457:

I beg you guys, please dont lock raids behind masteries.

Thanks. <3

You KNOW they’ve been talking about masteries to penetrate special armor and avoid special attacks (raid damage) since masteries were first described.

There was never any doubt raids were going to be mastery gated. None.

Dovienya.6597:

Near.7439:

Man, this argument is just nuts to me. If you want to raid you must be of a certain mindset that enjoys doing pve content. If you’re playing GW2 you must be a person who likes GW2. What the heck is the problem with requiring you to prepare for the raid in a way that is natural and fluid just by doing their content which you paid to play in the first place?
I mean jeez, was it a “gate” to require you to get your characters to level 80 before you did certain dungeons? Why weren’t you complaining about that?
WTF kind of expansion would it be if there was literally no progression required at all? Im so glad none of you decided to go into game design.

What is the problem with being able to gain a reasonable amount of XP inside of raids?

When did I say that was a problem? What I am saying is you should go into a raid with as much preparation as possible and if you encounter a mastery gate, maybe you should go do some more low level pve until you’re actually ready for the big leagues. This is called progression buddy. Get used to it cause that’s what you paid for when you bought an MMORPG. There is always a process to furthering your character.

… masteries are supposed to be the replacement or parallel of lvling after lvl 80, so your character can still have progression and continue to grow, developing new skills and abilities without those abilities rendering previous content unplayable due to the fact that your new level makes those zones too easy and as such not as enjoyable or worth while.

That being said, for masteries to work as intended, they must be usable in new content zones but not the old. New abilities thst help you overcome new challenges. If you didn’t need them in the new content, what would be the point of having them???? You had to lvl up to 80 before you could play lvl 80 content right? Well now you have to lvl up masteries before you can play post lvl 80 content. In that regard this is no different than any other game.

…I do however wish they weren’t so grundy though..

Near.7439:

Man, this argument is just nuts to me. If you want to raid you must be of a certain mindset that enjoys doing pve content. If you’re playing GW2 you must be a person who likes GW2. What the heck is the problem with requiring you to prepare for the raid in a way that is natural and fluid just by doing their content which you paid to play in the first place?
I mean jeez, was it a “gate” to require you to get your characters to level 80 before you did certain dungeons? Why weren’t you complaining about that?
WTF kind of expansion would it be if there was literally no progression required at all? Im so glad none of you decided to go into game design.

Mate – you’re not getting it.
I enjoy GW2 – but I enjoy GW2’s instanced content the most.
I do not enjoy most events in the open world and would rather not have to grind out xp via those events in order to be able to do Raids ( which are instanced content that I do enjoy).

Sadly I cannot level up masteries in WvW or other areas of the game that I enjoy – I have to farm events in the jungle – which I dislike. Both the events and the overall jungle maps ( with the exception of Auric Basin).

Another issue is that they could at least tell us which masteries will be required and what level will be required in each so I don’t have to guess and potentially level up one that I don’t need.

Because honestly – outside of the fact that a lot of necessary materials for legendary crafting are gated behind some of these masteries I couldn’t care less about “mastering the jungle” as it currently works.

Near.7439:

Dovienya.6597:

Near.7439:

Man, this argument is just nuts to me. If you want to raid you must be of a certain mindset that enjoys doing pve content. If you’re playing GW2 you must be a person who likes GW2. What the heck is the problem with requiring you to prepare for the raid in a way that is natural and fluid just by doing their content which you paid to play in the first place?
I mean jeez, was it a “gate” to require you to get your characters to level 80 before you did certain dungeons? Why weren’t you complaining about that?
WTF kind of expansion would it be if there was literally no progression required at all? Im so glad none of you decided to go into game design.

What is the problem with being able to gain a reasonable amount of XP inside of raids?

When did I say that was a problem? What I am saying is you should go into a raid with as much preparation as possible and if you encounter a mastery gate, maybe you should go do some more low level pve until you’re actually ready for the big leagues. This is called progression buddy. Get used to it cause that’s what you paid for when you bought an MMORPG. There is always a process to furthering your character.

This is exactly the problem – Raids are supposed to be for skilled players – and naturally should encourage less skilled players to go back to other content and improve before coming back if they can’t progress – but the gate that makes you fail and go back should be skill not an arbitrary counter saying : you have not grinded out enough events – please proceed back.

The problem with what you describe is that it doesn’t matter how good or skilled or knowledgeable you are with the game – until you’ve spent X amount of time grinding out the jungle you cannot do Raids.

The whole reason people flocked to the GW2 franchise is that there was rarely a huge gate on player progression – you could do most things without having to grind for a long time in order to be able to access parts of the game.

That’s why people didn’t want more gear grind added. That’s why people didn’t want a higher level cap.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

… masteries are supposed to be the replacement or parallel of lvling after lvl 80, so your character can still have progression and continue to grow, developing new skills and abilities without those abilities rendering previous content unplayable due to the fact that your new level makes those zones too easy and as such not as enjoyable or worth while.

That being said, for masteries to work as intended, they must be usable in new content zones but not the old. New abilities thst help you overcome new challenges. If you didn’t need them in the new content, what would be the point of having them???? You had to lvl up to 80 before you could play lvl 80 content right? Well now you have to lvl up masteries before you can play post lvl 80 content. In that regard this is no different than any other game.

…I do however wish they weren’t so grundy though..

I agree with you – but there’s a problem here.

In the core game I could level up doing a variety of different things.
I could do some Events or hearts to level up ( hearts – where you didn’t need 12391 other people to complete and get the xp) but I could also do a dungeon or two and get xp, I could WvW and get XP, and with the latest changes to PvP rewards you can do PvP and get tomes to level up.

What am I getting at? I had variety and thus leveling up was not boring.

Let’s look at how I can level up masteries in HoT – I can grind events. That’s it – really.
No instances, no WvW, no PvP – grind events or go home.

That’s the problem with mastery gating – you have to level up something that isn’t fun to level up.

Raids are supposed to be out in like a week right? Has Anet even announced a release date or what mastery’s we will need to progress through the raids?? Seems strange to me that they havent released this info…

if out of 4 zones you can’t find ANYTHING you enjoy doing, what makes you think you are going to enjoy raids

while I do agree that end game content should be hard, the mastery grind is ridiculous. I’ve been playing about 4-5 days a week and about 1-2 hours a day since HOT launch. I have only gained 5 lvl total of the maguma masteries. 1 lvl for each itzel, exalted, nuhoch, and 2 lvl for gliding to use updraft…

I am one of those players who like to dip their toes in every play mode of the game. with all of these masteries grind, I don’t even have time to get to fractal yet, maybe 2 fractals since HOT. They should let us gain mastery exp in pvp too that would encourage people to play pvp more.

Shoe.5821:

if out of 4 zones you can’t find ANYTHING you enjoy doing, what makes you think you are going to enjoy raids

Because for some people, anything but the absolute best equipment with handpicked friends, an alway available entrance and a raid that is so hard that it challenges them but still so accessible and fluid that it produces adrenalin in masses while it takes place at the best place is not acceptable.

I don´t know if that is a spoiled brat behaviour or a strong competitive streak. But I know that is like asking for a round peg to fit into a square hole, or asking the Niagara Falls to turn yellow after you went to the toilet in front of it. I pitty Anet in their from the start futile attempt to please this crowd, but it was something they basically asked for on their own and so probably deserve all the flack this is bound to produce.^^

Oh lord.

People they said you can do raids without masteries.

It’s just going to be infinitely harder you don’t have masteries. The gate is therefore optional, either you want to suffer or you want to succeed.

MarshMellow.8560:

Before you complain please consider how much better raid will/could be because of masteries. Eg. Updrafts escape from trailer, speed mushrooms to help with vale Guardian. I also predict adrenal mushrooms or nuhoch alchemy for one of the bosses. I actually suspect there will be alot of adrenal mushrooms. Masteries can effectively double raid mechanic. It is also a supplement for people without ascended gear. I would much rather take someone into my group who has adrenal mastery than ascended armour.

Someone might be ahead of me, but there were adrenal shrooms in the vale guardian area.

We’ll likely see much more of that, ‘easing’ difficulty with masteries.

“LFM Raid, only players with max masteries/ascended or legendary gear/combat boosters only!”

Wildstar did the same thing and look how that turned out.

History proves that listening and catering to hardcores only is finacially a really really really bad idea but I guess no one over at NCsoft learned that lesson.

pho.9412:

while I do agree that end game content should be hard, the mastery grind is ridiculous. I’ve been playing about 4-5 days a week and about 1-2 hours a day since HOT launch. I have only gained 5 lvl total of the maguma masteries. 1 lvl for each itzel, exalted, nuhoch, and 2 lvl for gliding to use updraft…

You HAVE to spend cash on heroic boosters or exp gains are so low it’s as bad as any of the worst f2ps out there….using these boosts is literally like turning on a light switch from little exp to lots just by using those. Sadly it seems no one is concerned about this new f2p direction they are going where cash shop items were never really needed and now they are. This game is no longer simply a b2p MMO no more, it’s getting more and more cash shop centric and this is only the beginning.

fixit.7189:

“LFM Raid, only players with max masteries/ascended or legendary gear/combat boosters only!”

Wildstar did the same thing and look how that turned out.

History proves that listening and catering to hardcores only is finacially a really really really bad idea but I guess no one over at NCsoft learned that lesson.

pho.9412:

while I do agree that end game content should be hard, the mastery grind is ridiculous. I’ve been playing about 4-5 days a week and about 1-2 hours a day since HOT launch. I have only gained 5 lvl total of the maguma masteries. 1 lvl for each itzel, exalted, nuhoch, and 2 lvl for gliding to use updraft…

You HAVE to spend cash on heroic boosters or exp gains are so low it’s as bad as any of the worst f2ps out there….using these boosts is literally like turning on a light switch from little exp to lots just by using those. Sadly it seems no one is concerned about this new f2p direction they are going where cash shop items were never really needed and now they are. This game is no longer simply a b2p MMO no more, it’s getting more and more cash shop centric and this is only the beginning.

Except if you’re a long time player you don’t have to spend anything – birthday boosters are a great way of leveling up and you get them for just being a long time player.
Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

Palador.2170:

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

While i agree there’s something wrong, it’s also equally wrong for players to want to do the hardest content in the game with no forethought or effort.

Again, people seem to still be missing the bigger picture though. Masteries are optional, they have stated this time and time again. They will help make your encounters smoother, but ultimately if you are good enough at the game you can in theory forget they even exist.

Learn to farm the jungle lmao!

Learn to kill the exact same 24 or so vet spiders with heroic boosters you mean.

Don’t worry, those will more than likely get nerfed soon.

Palador.2170:

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

How many times can I escort the same pact soldiers doing the same open world even for a small amount of XP in order to get the masteries I need ( which Anet gated behind XP) so I can have fun.

You know what would be really fun? Unlimited gliding.
You know what isn’t fun? Having only the jungle to play in to get all that XP and unlock it. The jungle is completely Open World – and that might be fun sometimes but not always.

With the core game you could level as you want – PvP, WvW, instanced content and open world were there – in HoT all you have are open world events.

It doesn’t set off any red flag for me because if I were playing just “for fun” I would probably never unlock gliding final tier.
Plus – I’m not the one who made the system what it is.

TexZero.7910:

Palador.2170:

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

While i agree there’s something wrong, it’s also equally wrong for players to want to do the hardest content in the game with no forethought or effort.

Again, people seem to still be missing the bigger picture though. Masteries are optional, they have stated this time and time again. They will help make your encounters smoother, but ultimately if you are good enough at the game you can in theory forget they even exist.

Except that’s just an assumption – given how much they’ve pushed for HoT and to get people to play it I expect that the gates will be really really hard.
While theoretically you could do it without the masteries – in practice I think you’re going to 100% need them.

fixit.7189:

Learn to farm the jungle lmao!

Learn to kill the exact same 24 or so vet spiders with heroic boosters you mean.

Don’t worry, those will more than likely get nerfed soon.

I haven’t even done that one – but I might.
Do you know why? because the jungle isn’t fun and it offers very little variety.

If I want to level up in the jungle I can do the following:

1.Open world events
2.Open world events
3.Open world events

Do you see a pattern? Yes there are 3 maps and different events but ultimately I doubt everyone feels like open world events every day. Especially since the open world is filled with players that have no clue and mess up events like nobody’s business.

you might as well say

1 play the game
2 play the game
3 play the game

for all the relation one open world event can have with another open world event

it covers everything from escorting that one soldier to Tequatl

Harper.4173:

TexZero.7910:

Palador.2170:

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

While i agree there’s something wrong, it’s also equally wrong for players to want to do the hardest content in the game with no forethought or effort.

Again, people seem to still be missing the bigger picture though. Masteries are optional, they have stated this time and time again. They will help make your encounters smoother, but ultimately if you are good enough at the game you can in theory forget they even exist.

Except that’s just an assumption – given how much they’ve pushed for HoT and to get people to play it I expect that the gates will be really really hard.
While theoretically you could do it without the masteries – in practice I think you’re going to 100% need them.

It’s not much of an assumption. Colin has been on record saying as much during pretty much every Q&A he’s done on raids.

Here’s the clip from PAX Prime incase you missed it where he says it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4

Now yes some fights make use of masteries, but is that really a shock ? Raids are meant for those that enjoy challenges part of that means putting the time and effort into getting masteries to complete the content.

Shoe.5821:

you might as well say

1 play the game
2 play the game
3 play the game

for all the relation one open world event can have with another open world event

it covers everything from escorting that one soldier to Tequatl

You’re not getting it – play the game yes.
But the game has many facets – open world events are only one.

Plus – open world events all play out exactly the same way – tag stuff while a dozen other players tag stuff around you. It gets old fast.

TexZero.7910:

Harper.4173:

TexZero.7910:

Palador.2170:

Harper.4173:

Also – you need to learn how to “farm” the jungle for XP – not just play it.

Do you realize what a horrible statement that is?

I’m not saying you’re wrong. (Far from it, actually.) But this is a game. It’s supposed to be fun. When your best advice for making progress is to stop playing and start working, doesn’t that set off any red flags for you?

While i agree there’s something wrong, it’s also equally wrong for players to want to do the hardest content in the game with no forethought or effort.

Again, people seem to still be missing the bigger picture though. Masteries are optional, they have stated this time and time again. They will help make your encounters smoother, but ultimately if you are good enough at the game you can in theory forget they even exist.

Except that’s just an assumption – given how much they’ve pushed for HoT and to get people to play it I expect that the gates will be really really hard.
While theoretically you could do it without the masteries – in practice I think you’re going to 100% need them.

It’s not much of an assumption. Colin has been on record saying as much during pretty much every Q&A he’s done on raids.

Here’s the clip from PAX Prime incase you missed it where he says it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4

Now yes some fights make use of masteries, but is that really a shock ? Raids are meant for those that enjoy challenges part of that means putting the time and effort into getting masteries to complete the content.

Colin and others have said many things during the development of GW2 and a significant number of times what they’ve said has been false or ended up being completely different.
You should know this if you’ve been with the game.

And while I do enjoy challenge – I want skill based challenge not: how much time can you sink into the jungle’s events?.

Just finished all my masteries, rank 161 So I’m ready for the raids

I think they gave us enough time (you still have time until the raids actually come) to get at least the basic masteries if not all just by playing the game.

I see so many people rage how masteries are a grind. How people who do CoF p1 and spider farm and all other mob related things are braindead sort of players who didn’t do anything in HoT maps other than farm mobs. You actually realize that you basically need to do almost EVERYTHING in the new zones to reach rank 161 like I did? There are not that many mastery points to spare after you are done.

I did almost all HoT map related achievements (except Chak Gerent ones, Shooter Gallery Gold, Haywire Punch-o-Matic Gold, Tarir 100 times and a few ones in VB). So in the end I played the game the way I like. I love doing achievements, and by doing them (most are related to long event chains) I got pretty far into the masteries.

Just play the game, don’t chase the carrot. You can’t say that you feel forced to play other content that you don’t like in order to play the raids. Well guess what, raids are End Game for PvE. In order to get masteries you have to do PvE (shocking right?). So yeah I’m perfectly fine if they put some high end masteries as a necessity in raids.

That way they will limit the raids to people who actually did HoT maps, went through the learning curve of it, got a bit better skilled. Cause let’s be honest, the vanilla open world didn’t require any skill in order to play, HoT maps do, at least to some degree, and I’d rather have players in raids who actually went through HoT maps and did a lot in them, then those players who didn’t even bother cause it was too hard for them. You may call that eliteism or whatever, but I don’t care. I’d gladly welcome that when it comes to the raids. Doing dungeons with newbies for a few hours (yes that can happen), but doing raids which are made to be hard with newbies will turn into a nightmare, will make people angry and some may even turn toxic.

They said from the start that casual players will not be able to do raids, that they are made for above average skilled players. And by including masteries into raids means they can make some very fun mechanics that require good timing and a whole lot of fun.

So if you still haven’t wrapped your head around all that, and will continue to complain how raids are too hard (before people find out the most optimal way to do the encounters) and how much locked behind masteries they are and now you have to ‘grind’…. all I can say to you is “Would you like some cheese with that whine?”.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Masteries are the entire progression system for this expansion. Of course they will be used in raids. That being said they are soft requirements not hard walls, at least what we have seen so far.

Vale guardian had speed boost mushrooms all around the fight, yet even after 1 BWE people beat him without access to that mastery at all. So having them would have made the fight easier, yet it was not required.

I doubt there will be any hard gates in raids that are past lvl 2 mastery in a line. Most of them just don’t lend themselves to gates. High level frogs gain you nothing, either does high level exalted. The only high level mastery that might be useful in raids is ley-line gliding.

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you. The higher tiers I could understand, but if you are complaining about needing poison lore or updrafts, then you aren’t going to beat the raid anyway so just don’t worry about it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This whole thread is ridiculous. Masteries are the entire progression system for this expansion. Of course they will be used in raids. That being said they are soft requirements not hard walls, at least what we have seen so far.

Vale guardian had speed boost mushrooms all around the fight, yet even after 1 BWE people beat him without access to that mastery at all. So having them would have made the fight easier, yet it was not required.

I doubt there will be any hard gates in raids that are past lvl 2 mastery in a line. Most of them just don’t lend themselves to gates. High level frogs gain you nothing, either does high level exalted. The only high level mastery that might be useful in raids is ley-line gliding.

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you. The higher tiers I could understand, but if you are complaining about needing poison lore or updrafts, then you aren’t going to beat the raid anyway so just don’t worry about it.

If you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery, it means you don’t like mindless grind or exploiting something to get the exp in the HoT maps- there is no correlation between being able to grind out mindless exp and being able to beat a decent raid instance.

Plus – open world events all play out exactly the same way – tag stuff while a dozen other players tag stuff around you. It gets old fast.

:|

do you even have heart of thorns?

if you were talking about Orr, sure….

edit: not trying to be a kitten, but the events are really varied in HoT and tend towards being pretty objective based over ‘kill a lot of stuff’ ala Orr. A lot of the time tagging is literally pointless! Compare Dragon’s Stand to… ALL the Orr Temples, really.

Notsoperky.2348:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This whole thread is ridiculous. Masteries are the entire progression system for this expansion. Of course they will be used in raids. That being said they are soft requirements not hard walls, at least what we have seen so far.

Vale guardian had speed boost mushrooms all around the fight, yet even after 1 BWE people beat him without access to that mastery at all. So having them would have made the fight easier, yet it was not required.

I doubt there will be any hard gates in raids that are past lvl 2 mastery in a line. Most of them just don’t lend themselves to gates. High level frogs gain you nothing, either does high level exalted. The only high level mastery that might be useful in raids is ley-line gliding.

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you. The higher tiers I could understand, but if you are complaining about needing poison lore or updrafts, then you aren’t going to beat the raid anyway so just don’t worry about it.

If you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery, it means you don’t like mindless grind or exploiting something to get the exp in the HoT maps- there is no correlation between being able to grind out mindless exp and being able to beat a decent raid instance.

Exp is thrown at you constantly in HoT. I haven’t done a single xp grind in HoT yet I have 6/6/3/4 so far. Heck, one completed DS map gains you 1,500,000xp. Using boosters you can get that up to 3,000,000xp. The only way you don’t have 4th tier masteries is if you simply aren’t playing the game.

Sicarius.4639:

Attunement, interesting.

Are you trying to equate the XP grind for Masteries with WOW’s old and abandoned Attunement system?

Beast Sos.1457:

Tironas.7053:

In any other game you would have to RNG grind dungeons for gear so you should be thankful that we can grind our masteries in any of the 3 zones instead of a handful of not very rewarding dungeons.

At least when I grind in this I am getting money and materials.

Same kitten different name. You just fell for it.

If the mastery system is a hard gate for raids then its no different then any other MMO out there. A big part of GW2 is accessibility, that is the reason many of us play. Those of us who dont have time to grind for hours to get the required masteries cant raid then? Sure put a couple requirements like gliding or mushroom jumping. But to go and put poison immunity or that other bull kitten is just another treadmill but with a different name.

Pretty much HOT has made GW2 like other MMOs, the PvE crowd won. THe fact WvW enhancement were left out at the expansion release is clear enough what Anet wants to focus on. There will be more masteries to be level up as they add more raid contents.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you. The higher tiers I could understand, but if you are complaining about needing poison lore or updrafts, then you aren’t going to beat the raid anyway so just don’t worry about it.

Or because you don’t find spider grinding fun.

Kraggy.4169:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you. The higher tiers I could understand, but if you are complaining about needing poison lore or updrafts, then you aren’t going to beat the raid anyway so just don’t worry about it.

Or because you don’t find spider grinding fun.

Or you want “everything now!!” with little to no effort.
Didn’t have to grind spiders to reach 100+ mastery, some of us just play the game.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Honestly if you don’t have at least 4th tier mastery of every line by the time raids launch then raids aren’t designed for you.

Awww I thought raids were about skills and group coordination, not pve mindless grinding…

Harper.4173:

I understand the need for this gate – I do not understand why they “lied” and said that their raids will have no gates.

They do not lied.
Raids “dungeon” without jumping shroom, gliding and updrafts would be flat and miss a lot of fun and mechanism richness.
Just imagine your guild mates and you gliding over lava and hot air updrafts chasing a wyvern!

Raziel.4216:

Or you want “everything now!!” with little to no effort.
Didn’t have to grind spiders to reach 100+ mastery, some of us just play the game.

I’d laugh hard if ANet would allow every player to attempt raids. Pretty sure lvl1 masteries would perform the same way, if not better than current lvl 161 mindless grinders.
Grinding =/= skills.
And mindless farming doesn’t requiere any effort. Man, you can watch netflix while doing this. Where’s the effort exactly?

It’s just content gating. Something I though I would never see in GW2. If I want content gating, I’ll go back to FF14, where instanced pve is 10 times better than here.

Nausicca.6038:

Raziel.4216:

Or you want “everything now!!” with little to no effort.
Didn’t have to grind spiders to reach 100+ mastery, some of us just play the game.

I’d laugh hard if ANet would allow every player to attempt raids. Pretty sure lvl1 masteries would perform the same way, if not better than current lvl 161 mindless grinders.
Grinding =/= skills.
And mindless farming doesn’t requiere any effort. Man, you can watch netflix while doing this. Where’s the effort exactly?

It’s just content gating. Something I though I would never see in GW2. If I want content gating, I’ll go back to FF14, where instanced pve is 10 times better than here.

Like I said, I didn’t have to grind anything to reach high mastery levels. Masteries are only a grind if you make them one, the “everything now!” mindset is your problem, not Arenanet’s.
This whole “high mastery requires grinding!” argument is full of BS, it’s a mere excuse to get another nerf.
Using masteries in raids would give Anet a lot of freedom & new mechanics for bosses, take one of my favorite bosses as an example: the patriarch, he requires constant use of updrafts to kill, if Anet goes “oh well we’re excluding those poor people without masteries” and removes the mechanic he’d be just another high HP sponge.
Anet clearly said that raids are NOT for everyone, so go back to FF14 and whine there, we’ll keep our new mechanics in raids.