Guild Wars 2

Random.4691:

I don’t agree, people are getting to the point of ridiculous with their RELEASE THEM NOW threads, I’m willing to bet they see a major increase in sales right before next beta weekend, provided they aren’t a complete failure of a specialization.

and that is why i have not bought HoT yet because i doubt druid will be a finished spec with the way the current Release BWE dates are going + the current bugs on rangers lingering magic will make any Support/boon skill/trait the druid brings no increase correctly or apply the incorrect amount of boon duration or not even apply the boons to allies .

if the Druid release is a Staff that buffs the pet to Monsterous levels while applying Support in trade of the rangers personal damage to increase that said support i’ll be over the moon and buy HoT , since it’ll give us the Group support and improved pets we need and are lacking right now.

all this talk about aspects i just see as new Utiltiy skills that act like gw1 Preperations apply the aspect would kinda alter Weapon skills or certain effects while under the aspect (if we even get aspects this would be linked to utility slots then Traits which improve the Support/CC of staff weapon.)

but if its bugged to high heaven , my money is staying in my pocket untill further notice xd i’d expect a Alpa version of Druid to be Bugged a lot not a Beta version nor a Final Release version.

scerevisiae.1972:

The main problem is not that druid and forge are the last specs to be revealed. The issue here is that they will only get one BWE to provide feedback to fix any possible issues and there is no time to change much until launch. I doubt that even all of the already tested specs will release in a good state, especially the dragonhunter and the tempest, which were available from the first beta weekend.

This does not bode well for the druid and the forge, as they need to be in a good state from the start or they won’t be fixed by release. I believe that there should have been a much larger beta test for the elite specs, but the time for that has passed. It would be a shame if rangers got the short end of the stick once again, so I really hope that the druid is worthwhile.

You are smoking crack if you think Tempest is in a good state. 90%+ of the ele community hates it.

Agree though it would be totally unfair if both druid and forge weren’t revealed by BWE3. It’s kind of unfair that other specs have already had 2 weekends of play/refinement.

Re-read my statement, I said that I doubt that tempest and DH will be released in a good state. This means that I believe they will be bad at launch.

@Zenos

That’s kinda my point about this situation. Do you really think in 1 BWE we will be able to test the entirety of both specs and have the team balance it to be on par with the other specializations who had 2+ BWE to be balanced?

I am not doubting their ability to balance but everything takes time and feedback, we aren’t given that for these 2 specializations.

Development is like cooking chicken; it’s done when it’s done.

You can eat under cooked chicken, but it’s probably not going to go that well for you.

I can see both sides:
1. More feedback by releasing it early will allow Anet to develop the traits based on player feedback.

2. Releasing the traits in a less than acceptable state may cause backlash and damage perception. You can slap the “BETA” tag all you want but there will be an impact.

Given the delay, I hope Anet is just trying to take their time and make sure to put their best foot forward. (though given Anets loose use of the term balance, I’m not sure how much faith I hold in it)

Gav.1425:

Development is like cooking chicken; it’s done when it’s done.

You can eat under cooked chicken, but it’s probably not going to go that well for you.

Forum seems like we are getting beef for dinner more likely.

When it comes to druid there are 2 possibilities.
- Since it was the first to be announced, anet has been working from the beginning of announcement till now. Hence it will be the most polished, last to be revealed completely and only need minimal testing.
- As usual ranger has been given the shovel on the face again. Just look at the amounts of bugs and amount of problematic useless pets the profession has till this point. Ranger can hope for Glyphs+Aspects to save them. The reality check is druid will probably come with Glyphs+Aspects+existingRangersnpetsbugs+Newdruidbugs.

Introducing elite spec and everything is fine. However profession favoritism in this game has always been a dilemma that has rarely been addressed. I somehow doubt classes like Necro, Rangers and Thief along with their elite spec will be popular on their brand new high end challenging group content aka raid. Majority of 10men will probably involves guard, ele and warrior, perhaps throw in bit of engi and mesmer too, just like everything else in this game.

As usual, keep expectation low. I’m not hyped at all when it comes to HoT, even after all these betas.

Random.4691:

sunset.3056:

I find that a horrible marketing decision (if it’s true), I wouldn’t be sure they’d get more people buying the game than leaving it with specs that aren’t fully designed. But what am I saying, it’s all about the Benjamin’s right?

Exactly, in the end it is all about the Benjamin, they are a business and people seem to forget that. It’s doesn’t have to be morally correct, I don’t even necessarily agree with it but from a marketing stand point it works.

I could use the drug addict example but that might be a bit overboard.

When people want something really bad, they might get upset if you make them wait but when it is finally released to them, they buy it up blindly. How many people blindly bought the xpac ? I think some people are giving far to much credit to the typical consumer.

Yes, they need to make money. They make more money if people are happy and enjoying the game and feeling fulfilled because of good communication with ANet, the developers. If you are enjoying something, you spend your money on it. Marketing is the devil too imo.

You cannot use the addict example in this case, because no dealer in their right mind would not sell to an addict if the product and money are there on the table. How does the dealer benefit from not selling immediately? Anyone who buys HoT was always going to buy it.

The smarter option would have been to release all the profession specs 1st, that way people who liked them would immediately buy HoT, after you have their money, it doesn’t matter if they like everything else.

Seriously, who of you that have not already, would have bought the xpac immediately if Druid was revealed 1st and it was amazing?

It’s not released because its not ready to be.

Kodama.6453:

Gav.1425:

Development is like cooking chicken; it’s done when it’s done.

You can eat under cooked chicken, but it’s probably not going to go that well for you.

Forum seems like we are getting beef for dinner more likely.

I guess this is supposed to be funny but I am trying to keep my thread constructive. So try to add to the conversation rather than being condescending to your fellow gamers. Thanks.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Random.4691:

sunset.3056:

I find that a horrible marketing decision (if it’s true), I wouldn’t be sure they’d get more people buying the game than leaving it with specs that aren’t fully designed. But what am I saying, it’s all about the Benjamin’s right?

Exactly, in the end it is all about the Benjamin, they are a business and people seem to forget that. It’s doesn’t have to be morally correct, I don’t even necessarily agree with it but from a marketing stand point it works.

I could use the drug addict example but that might be a bit overboard.

When people want something really bad, they might get upset if you make them wait but when it is finally released to them, they buy it up blindly. How many people blindly bought the xpac ? I think some people are giving far to much credit to the typical consumer.

Yes, they need to make money. They make more money if people are happy and enjoying the game and feeling fulfilled because of good communication with ANet, the developers. If you are enjoying something, you spend your money on it. Marketing is the devil too imo.

You cannot use the addict example in this case, because no dealer in their right mind would not sell to an addict if the product and money are there on the table. How does the dealer benefit from not selling immediately? Anyone who buys HoT was always going to buy it.

The smarter option would have been to release all the profession specs 1st, that way people who liked them would immediately buy HoT, after you have their money, it doesn’t matter if they like everything else.

Seriously, who of you that have not already, would have bought the xpac immediately if Druid was revealed 1st and it was amazing?

It’s not released because its not ready to be.

My $50 is worth less tomorrow than it is today.

You can argue that some of the other specs were not ready to be revealed and felt rushed (my opinion of course). My prime example is the Tempest which even the animations do not seem finished for some races. (ex: Charr overcharges)

I agree with your release schedule- I think there would be much less disappointment with communication than what it currently is.

Ultimately its a double edged sword. The final two elite specialization haven’t even been announced to the point where their skills and utilities can be looked at. There is only a handful of weeks left before the release of HoT and Anet could be backing themselves into a corner if they aren’t careful.

I’ve played way too many MMOs to know, that what the devs feel is super clean and polished on there end, I’m looking at you Dragon Hunter; is nothing till its put on the chopping block and actually played by the people that are going to be playing it.

Each weekend that goes by, is less testing for Druid and Forge, which can cause one of two problems: The specializations aren’t polished enough, so the expansion release gets pushed back. Or the specializations get released unpolished and they try to fix it as they go. Neither is a very good option for their reputations, let alone marketing.

They need to be released soon for testing, or Anet better hope they got it right the first time.

I’m still holding off on buying HoT until I see how badly they’ve handled Druid.

I’m afraid because it seems like these 2 last elite specs could be the hardest to balance right. We don’t have any other information than the datamined, if these are true it seems like ranger will get an aspect switching mechanic with glyphes and forge is maybe getting minions.

The aspect switching seems to lead to a massive diversity for the elite spec, which is hard to balance right. And the minions are in danger to be too weak compared to other elite specs. Just look at other minion type builds. They aren’t doing well in any game mode.

I really hope this isn’t a thing and that we will get some well balanced elite specs revealed, so the less time to improve it doesn’t matter.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Random.4691:

sunset.3056:

I find that a horrible marketing decision (if it’s true), I wouldn’t be sure they’d get more people buying the game than leaving it with specs that aren’t fully designed. But what am I saying, it’s all about the Benjamin’s right?

Exactly, in the end it is all about the Benjamin, they are a business and people seem to forget that. It’s doesn’t have to be morally correct, I don’t even necessarily agree with it but from a marketing stand point it works.

I could use the drug addict example but that might be a bit overboard.

When people want something really bad, they might get upset if you make them wait but when it is finally released to them, they buy it up blindly. How many people blindly bought the xpac ? I think some people are giving far to much credit to the typical consumer.

Yes, they need to make money. They make more money if people are happy and enjoying the game and feeling fulfilled because of good communication with ANet, the developers. If you are enjoying something, you spend your money on it. Marketing is the devil too imo.

You cannot use the addict example in this case, because no dealer in their right mind would not sell to an addict if the product and money are there on the table. How does the dealer benefit from not selling immediately? Anyone who buys HoT was always going to buy it.

The smarter option would have been to release all the profession specs 1st, that way people who liked them would immediately buy HoT, after you have their money, it doesn’t matter if they like everything else.

Seriously, who of you that have not already, would have bought the xpac immediately if Druid was revealed 1st and it was amazing?

It’s not released because its not ready to be.

Your focusing on the wrong part of the example.

The number of people that already blindly purchased the xpac is a good indication of how any more will forgive and forget as soon as it is announced. For every one of you being vocal saying you may not buy it there is no doubt 2-3 people that will buy it.

I’m not even saying waiting is the right thing to do, but you’re all so blinded for wanting to know what these two classes consist of that you’re ignoring that. That’s the point.

Would I have liked them to release them all first (provided they are in a playable mode) of course I would have. I’m waiting to see both Druid and Forge eagerly, but that doesn’t mean the marketing plan (if that is indeed what they are doing) won’t work.

My prediction is, they announce one or both classes:
1) Some will be smart enough to realize they have 1 weekend to test and give feedback but will buy it anyways.
2) Others will completely forget and will be so excited that the wait is over that they will not only throw their money at Anet, they will thank them for revealing them.
3) Finally there will be those that either quietly or vocally move one to greener pastures.

Guess which one will be the Majority.

Given the amount of tuning that the other elite specs have needed to get up to a reasonable shape it just seems odd that Druid and Forge are being given so little time for iteration and improvement. At this point it’s not even the big things I’m worried about. Daredevil went into testing with dodges that rooted you to the ground for a second before letting you dodge. How did something that basic not get picked up before we got to try it?

There is no way that Druid and Forge will be anywhere near the same level as the other elite specs when HoT launches. Not in regards to polish or even basic profession mechanics that will need serious time to work the kinks out of. We’re somehow going to get all this done in the one remaining BWE and six weeks until HoT launches when both elite specs haven’t even had their official reveal yet.

When It’s Ready was an on the nose lie. The preset deadline is rapidly approaching, the expansion content isn’t ready and both Rangers and Engineers are going to eat the consequences of apparently being low priority professions. How can anyone look at this situation and not be disappointed by it?

Ganathar.4956:

scerevisiae.1972:

The main problem is not that druid and forge are the last specs to be revealed. The issue here is that they will only get one BWE to provide feedback to fix any possible issues and there is no time to change much until launch. I doubt that even all of the already tested specs will release in a good state, especially the dragonhunter and the tempest, which were available from the first beta weekend.

This does not bode well for the druid and the forge, as they need to be in a good state from the start or they won’t be fixed by release. I believe that there should have been a much larger beta test for the elite specs, but the time for that has passed. It would be a shame if rangers got the short end of the stick once again, so I really hope that the druid is worthwhile.

You are smoking crack if you think Tempest is in a good state. 90%+ of the ele community hates it.

Agree though it would be totally unfair if both druid and forge weren’t revealed by BWE3. It’s kind of unfair that other specs have already had 2 weekends of play/refinement.

Re-read my statement, I said that I doubt that tempest and DH will be released in a good state. This means that I believe they will be bad at launch.

Yep i see that now, my apologies.

Seeinf as there’s only 2 profs left, maybe they’re skipping the teaser as it’d be too obvious now and instead will surprise us by just showing forge/druid? Would certainly be unfair if they weren’t in BWE3….

xarallei.4279:

Only one beta weekend to give feedback and our core profession is still bug ridden. Eles might be upset over tempest, but ele is strong and will always have a place at least. Ranger is still a red headed step child. It needs to come out of the gate in HoT very strongly and it must make a good impression or else it we will have to face “looking for raid, no druids/rangers”.

The Fact that Eir is a Redhead makes your Point even stronger.

They have only 1 shot at “first impressions”.

They will show it when it’s ready.

-Engineer main

Tapioca.9062:

When It’s Ready was an on the nose lie. The preset deadline is rapidly approaching, the expansion content isn’t ready and both Rangers and Engineers are going to eat the consequences of apparently being low priority professions. How can anyone look at this situation and not be disappointed by it?

And what stops them from fixing them in the first 2 months after release still? Nothing.

Killyox.3950:

Tapioca.9062:

When It’s Ready was an on the nose lie. The preset deadline is rapidly approaching, the expansion content isn’t ready and both Rangers and Engineers are going to eat the consequences of apparently being low priority professions. How can anyone look at this situation and not be disappointed by it?

And what stops them from fixing them in the first 2 months after release still? Nothing.

If they have to fix it two months after release, it was, by definition, released before it was ready. There’s also the issue that once the expansion is live there will be other things that need to be focussed on. Anet’s MO is not to fix. It’s to sweep things under the rug and then work on something new.

Beyond even that, your statement is simply an apologist stance for Anet’s poor development schedule. You’re tacitly admitting that the Druid and Forge won’t be in a playable state at launch and time past launch will need to be spent tuning and iterating to get them into a place where they’re ready. This could have been avoided if Anet had prepared enough time for thorough testing and iteration for all the elite specialisations or waiting until They Were Ready before setting a release date. However, it is plain to see that they picked the release date, said they’d release when it was ready and then, once again, Rangers and Engineers got a raw deal.

Killyox.3950:

Tapioca.9062:

When It’s Ready was an on the nose lie. The preset deadline is rapidly approaching, the expansion content isn’t ready and both Rangers and Engineers are going to eat the consequences of apparently being low priority professions. How can anyone look at this situation and not be disappointed by it?

And what stops them from fixing them in the first 2 months after release still? Nothing.

In theory, nothing. In practice, looking at their past history of ranger bug fixes…

That said, and as a ranger main, i find it more funny than anything at that point.

I try to remain optimistic for those that are more jaded. I’ll hold on to hope that Forge and Druid will be awesome and have a minimal amount of bugs.

Lokicore.4027:

Ultimately its a double edged sword. The final two elite specialization haven’t even been announced to the point where their skills and utilities can be looked at. There is only a handful of weeks left before the release of HoT and Anet could be backing themselves into a corner if they aren’t careful.

I’ve played way too many MMOs to know, that what the devs feel is super clean and polished on there end, I’m looking at you Dragon Hunter; is nothing till its put on the chopping block and actually played by the people that are going to be playing it.

Each weekend that goes by, is less testing for Druid and Forge, which can cause one of two problems: The specializations aren’t polished enough, so the expansion release gets pushed back. Or the specializations get released unpolished and they try to fix it as they go. Neither is a very good option for their reputations, let alone marketing.

They need to be released soon for testing, or Anet better hope they got it right the first time.

Totally agree with you on this. I think they need at least TWO more betas to make things even. I have been waiting for the ranger like others. I do like my other characters but ranger has always been the first that I make and go back to. Ranger need a serious overhaul and balance to keep up with some the other professions. There just seems to be no time left for the feedback that will be needed, unless the Druid comes out so spectacular to begin with that we are blown away. Yes our pets are loved, and we need them not to die on us within seconds of combat, or some new abilities and hopefully New exotic pets from HoT areas….image having some of those things we have to fight over there… Some should be a challenge to get, like it GW1 with the Black moa. We should also be able to put them away and have them stay that way until needed in some instances, or flag them like in GW1 to staying a certain spot and fight. I know there is a utility skill for that, but you waste other utilities that you desperately need to use that. That should not be so. There is a long wish list for Rangers.
Like many I was really disappointed in the Tempest. I hope Arnet can address these issues for us as time goes on. I know we all want the release, but i really feel they are working out to work out the bugs and give us a good game. Maybe a Ranger-lover dev is working on our Ranger stuff and we can expect great things I hope so. Maybe like being able to craft your pet Armor!!! how cool is that.

counter question:

does it really matter when or if they even have a prestige class for Ranger at all?

The problems with ranger and engineer are way bigger than 1 trait line and a few utility skills could ever fix.

Druid by itself is not going to fix Spirits, which are terrible but if brought up to the level of Warrior Banners or Rev Facets would bring us into GWEN. It’s not going to fix the lack of utility on traps, its not going to fix trooper runes not working on shouts or fix the fact that most of our shouts are pointless garbage and one of them just gives us the control over our pet we should’ve always had anyway. It’s not going to fix the fact that our best DPS weapon removes our ability to control our character, that shortbow is still 900 range with 3 bad skills and a primary positional requirement or that axe auto is randomly a power based attack.

The only positive change druid might bring is removing the handicap that pets are to rangers within a dungeon, raid or zerg (aka instantly deadpet game modes); but even that is a long shot, and by doing that, then Druid becomes a mandatory specline for those game modes because it bandaids a massive problem rather than actually fixing it for the core class.

So again, who really cares what the druid brings?

Raven.9603:

counter question:

does it really matter when or if they even have a prestige class for Ranger at all?

The problems with ranger and engineer are way bigger than 1 trait line and a few utility skills could ever fix.

Druid by itself is not going to fix Spirits, which are terrible but if brought up to the level of Warrior Banners or Rev Facets would bring us into GWEN. It’s not going to fix the lack of utility on traps, its not going to fix trooper runes not working on shouts or fix the fact that most of our shouts are pointless garbage and one of them just gives us the control over our pet we should’ve always had anyway. It’s not going to fix the fact that our best DPS weapon removes our ability to control our character.

The only positive change druid might bring is removing the handicap that pets are to rangers within a dungeon, raid or zerg (aka instantly deadpet game modes); but even that is a long shot, and by doing that, then Druid becomes a mandatory specline for those game modes because it bandaids a massive problem rather than actually fixing it for the core class.

So again, who really cares what the druid brings?

• “Fix Spirits”: Are they buggy or do you just not like them? I don’t use Spirits, but it seems to me that all of the rage concerning Spirits is that you have to place them strategically now, since they don’t mindlessly follow you around anymore.
• “Lack of Utility on Traps”: Do traps no longer provide combo fields? Do they no longer inflict conditions and crowd control? Or are you just upset that you can’t throw them like grenades anymore? Once again, it makes you place things strategically, rather than “IMMA THROW A TRAP AT YOU!!!11!1!”
• The Rune of the Trooper thing is a bug that needs to be fixed.

I run WvWvW (usually roaming, but sometimes in zergs) on a Zerker (+some vit) Marksmanship/Survival/BeastMastery Ranger most of the time, with the occasional dungeon, SW, or World Boss train thrown in for good measure. I never have pet insta-death problems. In fact, the only times I find my pet “worthless” is when I am on a wall in WvWvW (I’ll take it for ~1,800 range from the high-ground, btw). In that case, I switch to Bear/Cat so I can have additional condi cleanse and might on demand (I usually use Bird/Bird for swiftness in combat and low cds on F2 or Dog/Dog for crowd control).

See, you actually have a fair amount of pet control in this game. Could there be more? Of course! But you should very, very rarely be in a situation where your pet instantly dies. If it happens to you frequently, then it’s probably a learn to play issue.

Btw: Here’s WoodenPotatoes completely wrecking people in WvWvW on a condi trapper build. https://youtu.be/dDYH__25snI

C’mom people, this is a live game. They could pretty much release the expansions without allowing us test any specialization, and adjust/fix it after based on feedback.

Being there “Before” to have more time for feedback don’t change anything, tempest is the prove of it.

So much condescension and implying that we just need to use “strategy now”. Really not necessary.

MattyP.6954:

• “Fix Spirits”: Are they buggy or do you just not like them? I don’t use Spirits, but it seems to me that all of the rage concerning Spirits is that you have to place them strategically now, since they don’t mindlessly follow you around anymore.

Spirits have active and passive effects. If you place them close enough to use their active in a fight, they will die. As a bonus, GM trait no longer has on death active effects for spirits. In pretty much any dungeon boss fight, they will die unless placed far from the group and even then, the boss often targets and kills them. This might be just a huge annoyance in dungeons where fights our short, but in raids its going to be the difference between 80% uptime and 20% uptime. Spirit GM trait that increases the health of spirits does not do so to a degree that alleviates the weakling spirits dying all the time, and for a GM trait 1sec of 1 might per 3seconds is pretty stupid. What is the point of a spirit that stands still and provide swiftness? How do these compare to facets and banners which can move with the fight, but cant be killed?

MattyP.6954:

• “Lack of Utility on Traps”: Do traps no longer provide combo fields? Do they no longer inflict conditions and crowd control? Or are you just upset that you can’t throw them like grenades anymore? Once again, it makes you place things strategically, rather than “IMMA THROW A TRAP AT YOU!!!11!1!”

…

Btw: Here’s WoodenPotatoes completely wrecking people in WvWvW on a condi trapper build. https://youtu.be/dDYH__25snI

Pretty much any condition build can wreck people in wvw because application is way out of pace with clears and condi food is broken, so its basically a free win on anyone not using -condi duration food. With Dire gear, the skill floor to succeed as a condi class of any type in wvw is very, very low. Combine that constant state of cheese with the new burn stacking + entange, and its GG. How is “placing traps at your feet” any more strategic than having the option of where to place them? How are traps themselves competitive with not running a utility that provides immunity, stunbreak or condi clear? Would traps be worth using at all if Runes of the Trapper didnt exist?

MattyP.6954:

I run WvWvW (usually roaming, but sometimes in zergs) on a Zerker (+some vit) Marksmanship/Survival/BeastMastery Ranger most of the time, with the occasional dungeon, SW, or World Boss train thrown in for good measure. I never have pet insta-death problems. In fact, the only times I find my pet “worthless” is when I am on a wall in WvWvW (I’ll take it for ~1,800 range from the high-ground, btw). In that case, I switch to Bear/Cat so I can have additional condi cleanse and might on demand (I usually use Bird/Bird for swiftness in combat and low cds on F2 or Dog/Dog for crowd control).

You sometimes zerg, sometimes dungeon, and you have never had a pet insta die due to another zergs aoe, or a dungeon bosses dodge-this-or-die mechanic? I have a hard time believing this, but I suppose we each have our own experiences and sometimes they differ. Pet survivability in dungeons and WvW is one of the biggest Ranger complaints in the community.