Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

A wild Barefoot Medina appears!

Konig uses Capture on Barefoot Medina!

Stay with us and this forum! We want more love from you devs!

every time you do this, you scare them away.

you gotta weaken them with every encounter, until they’re too weak to resist your capture. just throwing balls at them like that won’t work.

hands spiked club you know what to do.

MatthewMedina.5419:

-snip-

<3 thanking you muchly.

Aelphais.3905:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham

So….

Does Braham like ham?

This is now currently relevant to the story of Tyria.

OP, I agree with you completely. It seems like anything they add to the living story is more for shock value than good plot. I’m happy that they are including non straight relationships, but I do think this relationship was motivated by the “Ooh, those two are hot” factor. Especially when Kasmeer suddenly got turned from an intelligent noble deftly deflecting Lord Faren’s advances like a true mesmer at Southsun Cove, into a ditzy airhead at Kessex Hills who goes “Oops! I’m actually naked…my clothes are an illusion! Tee hee!” Ugh.

Although Majory and Kasmeer’s relationship can be salacious at times, a genuine current of affection and concern seem to carry the relationship. I think there are two primary factors that play into the view of their relationship as nothing more than cheap pandering to horny teenagers.

First, there’s the fact that most (all?) of our knowledge of their relationship comes from the point of view of the “third wheel.” We don’t know how Majory and Kasmeer behave in private, only the show they put on in public (for all the gawkers in Kessex Hills). And in Kasmeer’s case, I think 90% of what she says is for show. She seems to have two goals: to shock and titilate her “audience” and to try to embarass Marjory. At least that’s how I read her more outlandish behavior.

Second, there’s the age old fantasy rule of “No Uggoes.” In the fantasy genre being unattractive means one of two things: you’re evil or being “the ugly one” is your character type. Hence, no one in fantasy in general, or GW2 in particular, is allowed to be unattractive. So even before the first piece of concept art, the Marjory/Kasmeer romance was doomed to be fan-fic fodder. There was simply no choice but to make them attractive because to do otherwise would be to break a fantasy rule more deeply held than “elfs in trees, dwarves under rocks.”

In short, I think the relationship is more than mere pandering but the accusation is sound—for reasons both in and out of the devs’ conscious control.

I just came here to inquire about Braham and the ham as well.

Thank you for stepping in and weighing in, Matthew. It’s good to know Anet is carefully observing conversations like this one. On a lot of forums, the thread would long since have been locked.

Braham and Logan slugging it out? Funny you should mention that…I heard a genuine note of concern in Rytlock’s voice when he admonished Rox to “be careful”. I’m thinking that he may not take too kindly to Braham’s interest in Rox.

I’m more interested in the Guardian fight. My money is on Braham.

I think Marjory has led a life where she will take what she can when she can if she feels the need. Doesn’t matter who with. Kasmeer I’m not convinced about. I’m pretty sure I didn’t know about her background before this Story. I think she has different relationship needs.

zenleto.6179:

I’m more interested in the Guardian fight. My money is on Braham.

(Loading appropriate Logan joke . . .)

“Braham would win because Logan would just run away to save the queen.”

There, now that’s done.

I think Marjory has led a life where she will take what she can when she can if she feels the need. Doesn’t matter who with. Kasmeer I’m not convinced about. I’m pretty sure I didn’t know about her background before this Story. I think she has different relationship needs.

Kasmeer is still not as tragic as my favorite mesmer lady from GW1. If we ever reach the same level as Gwen “the Goremonger” Thackeray for how much stuff a character has to endure, you then have no argument from me there was “too much” heaped on them for the sake of drama.

That said, I still want to find some extreme necromantic magic capable of bringing her back . . . mostly to watch the Black Citadel go nuts on hearing the news.

The Black Citadel may well go nuts, but what will Gwen do when she sees us humans trading, working, playing, and fighting alongside the Charr?

Tanith.5264:

The Black Citadel may well go nuts, but what will Gwen do when she sees us humans trading, working, playing, and fighting alongside the Charr?

The trailer was right. The world will burn.

Braham would definitely win a duel against Logan. At least Braham could last more than 15 seconds in fights against foes like the Molten bosses. Logan keels over after a few slaps from an Elite or Champion.

Zaxares.5419:

Braham would definitely win a duel against Logan. At least Braham could last more than 15 seconds in fights against foes like the Molten bosses. Logan keels over after a few slaps from an Elite or Champion.

Are you kidding? Logan would run circles around Braham.

The Queen would use her amazing mesmeric powers to summon Logan over to launder the royal gowns and Braham would win by default.

Elbegast.6970:

Zaxares.5419:

Braham would definitely win a duel against Logan. At least Braham could last more than 15 seconds in fights against foes like the Molten bosses. Logan keels over after a few slaps from an Elite or Champion.

Are you kidding? Logan would run circles around Braham.

We never seem to run out of Logan running away jokes, do we?

Rajani Isa.6294:

Elbegast.6970:

Zaxares.5419:

Braham would definitely win a duel against Logan. At least Braham could last more than 15 seconds in fights against foes like the Molten bosses. Logan keels over after a few slaps from an Elite or Champion.

Are you kidding? Logan would run circles around Braham.

We never seem to run out of Logan running away jokes, do we?

I asked Logan how many there were, but he ran away before I got an answer.

How many Logan running away jokes are there?

One…. The rest are all true stories.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tanith.5264:

The Black Citadel may well go nuts, but what will Gwen do when she sees us humans trading, working, playing, and fighting alongside the Charr?

The trailer was right. The world will burn.

i wonder if forcing her and pyre into my party are the reason i always felt she was kind of useless, even on a meta PvE mesmer build…

WTB Kas & Jory mini holding hands ^^

Aaah, I’m kinda hoping Anet would eventually release some backstory on how these 2 actually hooked up. I saw some interesting digs in the twitter posts and certainly would like to have more of it.

The addition of their conversation may not add much to the main story, but it adds to their character, that we may know what inspired them and what drove them into taking such actions, which eventually roll into the main story as their personalities are built up.

As a person who enjoys digging up info and reading stuff, I’m a bit disappointed that Kasmeer don’t have her own backstory on a blogpost (and honestly, this kinda scares me and having me worried for her, having already grow fond of this coupling).

From my point of view, their relationship isn’t as obvious and isn’t really in your face sort. Bear in mind that girls flirt with each other tho not sexually attracted to each other, and the level of teasing is WAAAY more than these two.

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

Aaah, I’m kinda hoping Anet would eventually release some backstory on how these 2 actually hooked up. I saw some interesting digs in the twitter posts and certainly would like to have more of it.

The addition of their conversation may not add much to the main story, but it adds to their character, that we may know what inspired them and what drove them into taking such actions, which eventually roll into the main story as their personalities are built up.

As a person who enjoys digging up info and reading stuff, I’m a bit disappointed that Kasmeer don’t have her own backstory on a blogpost (and honestly, this kinda scares me and having me worried for her, having already grow fond of this coupling).

From my point of view, their relationship isn’t as obvious and isn’t really in your face sort. Bear in mind that girls flirt with each other tho not sexually attracted to each other, and the level of teasing is WAAAY more than these two.

you got kasmeer’s backstory AND how she met marjory in this patch. why would you need it repeated in a blog post?

BrunoBRS.5178:

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

Aaah, I’m kinda hoping Anet would eventually release some backstory on how these 2 actually hooked up. I saw some interesting digs in the twitter posts and certainly would like to have more of it.

The addition of their conversation may not add much to the main story, but it adds to their character, that we may know what inspired them and what drove them into taking such actions, which eventually roll into the main story as their personalities are built up.

As a person who enjoys digging up info and reading stuff, I’m a bit disappointed that Kasmeer don’t have her own backstory on a blogpost (and honestly, this kinda scares me and having me worried for her, having already grow fond of this coupling).

From my point of view, their relationship isn’t as obvious and isn’t really in your face sort. Bear in mind that girls flirt with each other tho not sexually attracted to each other, and the level of teasing is WAAAY more than these two.

you got kasmeer’s backstory AND how she met marjory in this patch. why would you need it repeated in a blog post?

I did said that I enjoyed digging and looking for info. And sides, it can also be asked why didn’t it get a blogpost then like some of the cast. It’s probably a harmless decision made in storytelling, and readers just come up with all sorts of wild theories about it, :P

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there.

Braham could beat the snot out of Logan without breaking a sweat.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there.

Isn’t Logan a warrior? Also, Braham could beat the snot out of Logan without breaking a sweat.

no, logan’s a guardian. he loves his bubbles.

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

BrunoBRS.5178:

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

Aaah, I’m kinda hoping Anet would eventually release some backstory on how these 2 actually hooked up. I saw some interesting digs in the twitter posts and certainly would like to have more of it.

The addition of their conversation may not add much to the main story, but it adds to their character, that we may know what inspired them and what drove them into taking such actions, which eventually roll into the main story as their personalities are built up.

As a person who enjoys digging up info and reading stuff, I’m a bit disappointed that Kasmeer don’t have her own backstory on a blogpost (and honestly, this kinda scares me and having me worried for her, having already grow fond of this coupling).

From my point of view, their relationship isn’t as obvious and isn’t really in your face sort. Bear in mind that girls flirt with each other tho not sexually attracted to each other, and the level of teasing is WAAAY more than these two.

you got kasmeer’s backstory AND how she met marjory in this patch. why would you need it repeated in a blog post?

I did said that I enjoyed digging and looking for info. And sides, it can also be asked why didn’t it get a blogpost then like some of the cast. It’s probably a harmless decision made in storytelling, and readers just come up with all sorts of wild theories about it, :P

because the rest of the cast didn’t get their stories in-game, a decision almost universally disliked.

now that the writing team can just script these dialogues, it’s much easier to get this kind of stuff in-game while the content designers can worry about, well, content.

BrunoBRS.5178:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there.

Isn’t Logan a warrior? Also, Braham could beat the snot out of Logan without breaking a sweat.

no, logan’s a guardian. he loves his bubbles.

Haha, I checked the wiki right before you replied, and edited my post. I’ve been thinking he’s a warrior for two years. This is going to take time to adjust.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

BrunoBRS.5178:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there.

Isn’t Logan a warrior? Also, Braham could beat the snot out of Logan without breaking a sweat.

no, logan’s a guardian. he loves his bubbles.

Haha, I checked the wiki right before you replied, and edited my post. I’ve been thinking he’s a warrior for two years. This is going to take time to adjust.

not editing my post. THE INTERNET NEVER FORGETS.

you shall forever live in the shame of not having known the profession of a videogame character!

Abaia.1365:

Second, there’s the age old fantasy rule of “No Uggoes.” In the fantasy genre being unattractive means one of two things: you’re evil or being “the ugly one” is your character type. Hence, no one in fantasy in general, or GW2 in particular, is allowed to be unattractive.

Do you pay attention to the chatter from the other NPCs around you? I know they aren’t Iconics or Biconics (Triconics? Side-conics?) but we got to see a Quaggan love story play out during the whole Tower of Nightmares saga.

True, they weren’t the main draw, but I smiled, and laughed, and cried a little watching them interact with each other (see sig). And was totally jazzed watching Peneloopee hitting on Bloomanoo at the end of the Tower saga, and seeing them together in Lion's Arch in the after-the-marionnete instance.

So yeah, there are heterosexual “normal” relationships in game. Maybe you have to pay attention a little to see them, but whatever. I sure hope the devs will let us be there when they announce the eggs! And I also hope that Peneloopee and Bloomanoo help defeat Scarlett in some small way, and get a little payback for the Quaggans.

Aelphais.3905:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham

So….

Does Braham like ham?

Confirmed: Ham is OP on Guardians.
He’ll use Bramahamehameha on Scarlet in the game, mark my words.

Atlas.9704:

Confirmed: Ham is OP on Guardians.
He’ll use Bramahamehameha on Scarlet in the game, mark my words.

As long as it takes longer than ten episodes to charge, we’re good here.

Lesbian romance got you down?

Know what we need more of?

Terravos.4059:

Lesbian romance got you down?

Know what we need more of?

On that note!

Logan Thackeray and Queen Jennah, may I introduce Ser Jorah Mormont and Khaleesi Daenerys Targaryen. . . . (Spelling may not be accurate, I apologize)

We know that for silvary gender is kind of irrelevant. They like who they like, and that’s it.

For humans it’s just part of what they are as a species. Some will like males, some will like females, some will not care much about it, some won’t have interest in love or sex at all. They are a very variable race.

For asura it seems rather plausible. They are the ones that came up with anatomical engineering, after all. For them gender probably doesn’t matter much, and they don’t even have gender a lot of gender dymorphism. If a male wants to have kids with another male, one of them can just get engineered to be female for a while, or even permanently if they get comfortable with it. They’ll just stick together if that benefits both, and split when their partner no longer shares interests with them.

I doubt charr would have much of that, since their race doesn’t shine much when it comes to romantic love. They have less couples and rely more in fahrars and warbands as a social structure. For them camaraderie is above love. That’s why Rytlock couln’t forgive Logan. It was hard for him to understand that.

Norn are probably another race with not much of that. They are more individualistic and less romantic. They tend to “nest” in homestead to have kids, then some stay to take care of them and some go about their business. They don’t need to cuddle and nestle to keep warm as much as other races, they could sleep outside in the snow and be fine. Courting for them is more about finding someone strong to make strong norn babies romantic relationships.

But for tengu it would be rather believeable. They are more similar to humans in personality as a race than charr or norn. They value families and partners a lot. It would not be strange at all for a couple of male tengu to take care of a female tengu’s kids after she’s killed by destroyers or something like that.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Put a straight relationship in a game and nobody bats an eye.

Put a lesbian relationship in a game and everybody loses their minds!

More like “with lesbian relationships they squee, with a gay one they screech”.

I haven’t seen many of male homosexual relationships in games.

In GW2 there’s a silvary male couple in the living story, but for the other races, there’s only hints between females for asura and humans. But not males.

In other games you don’t see much of that. When male homosexuals appear in video games, they are usually single characters, and often either evil or untrustworthy, or comic relief.

MithranArkanere.8957:

In other games you don’t see much of that. When male homosexuals appear in video games, they are usually single characters, and often either evil or untrustworthy, or comic relief.

. . . what about that guy in Mass Effect 3?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

MithranArkanere.8957:

In other games you don’t see much of that. When male homosexuals appear in video games, they are usually single characters, and often either evil or untrustworthy, or comic relief.

. . . what about that guy in Mass Effect 3?

Bioware has a tradition of portraying LGBT characters in a fairly positive and welcoming light, and it’s one thing I have a lot of respect for them for. Most studios will skirt around the issue, or just leave LGBT characters out altogether, for fear of courting controversy, but Bioware often tackles things head-on. I believe they were the first company to make an RPG with a gay love interest (Jade Empire), but it mostly flew under the radar.

Zaxares.5419:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

MithranArkanere.8957:

In other games you don’t see much of that. When male homosexuals appear in video games, they are usually single characters, and often either evil or untrustworthy, or comic relief.

. . . what about that guy in Mass Effect 3?

Bioware has a tradition of portraying LGBT characters in a fairly positive and welcoming light, and it’s one thing I have a lot of respect for them for. Most studios will skirt around the issue, or just leave LGBT characters out altogether, for fear of courting controversy, but Bioware often tackles things head-on. I believe they were the first company to make an RPG with a gay love interest (Jade Empire), but it mostly flew under the radar.

Jade Empire or the gay love interest? Because the game flew under the radar for me and it took Mr. Shamus Young to get my attention about it.

Also, I would respect Bioware a lot more but their storytelling chops haven’t been too impressive lately on the macro level of the story. Minor characters and plots are fine, but the whole story isn’t as good. Ditto for Bethesda, though to be honest I recall Morrowind having as many story issues with things as people like to attribute to Oblivion or Skyrim (Good Gods Cassius from House Hlaau . . .)

I think the last really good story I enjoyed as far as RPGs go was Ys Seven, Pokemon Black/White, or Final Fantasy 12.

Hey, a fellow TwentySided reader!

And yeah, I meant Jade Empire. It was never really that popular (a shame, really), but it’s got quite a dedicated fanbase.

Bioware stories tend to be fairly clichéd, with some minor twists here and there, but on the whole, they’re fairly predictable. (In fact, I think players have gotten so used to the classic “Hero saves the world, all is well” ending from Bioware games that when we DIDN’T get it in ME3, we lost our kitten. XD We buy their games FOR those kinds of endings.)

However, where Bioware excels is in character development. They have a real knack for getting you to form emotional attachments to their characters.

Zaxares.5419:

However, where Bioware excels is in character development. They have a real knack for getting you to form emotional attachments to their characters.

I may be mistaken, but wasn’t Bioware “Black Isle Studios” once? Or people from it came to make Bioware? Because this statement reminded me of Baldur’s Gate and how that game had some interesting character moments.

Though I also remember it deeply thanks to Viconia, Jaheera, Saverok, and Khalid.

No, Bioware and BIS were separate developers, although they collaborated quite a bit on their early games using Bioware’s Infinity engine. Some BIS employees may have eventually joined Bioware, but I’m not sure about that.

And Aerie will always hold a special place in my heart. <3

wow and there I always though Black Isle became Bioware in another incarnation
O.O
Ahh I was confusing it with Obsidian

as for Aerie- I hated her with a passion :P
I used to call her Aerie faerie

Minsc on the other hand will always be my man- I even called my Raven pet Boo

moronwmachinegun.3815:

Abaia.1365:

Second, there’s the age old fantasy rule of “No Uggoes.” In the fantasy genre being unattractive means one of two things: you’re evil or being “the ugly one” is your character type. Hence, no one in fantasy in general, or GW2 in particular, is allowed to be unattractive.

Do you pay attention to the chatter from the other NPCs around you? I know they aren’t Iconics or Biconics (Triconics? Side-conics?) but we got to see a Quaggan love story play out during the whole Tower of Nightmares saga.

True, they weren’t the main draw, but I smiled, and laughed, and cried a little watching them interact with each other (see sig). And was totally jazzed watching Peneloopee hitting on Bloomanoo at the end of the Tower saga, and seeing them together in Lion's Arch in the after-the-marionnete instance.

So yeah, there are heterosexual “normal” relationships in game. Maybe you have to pay attention a little to see them, but whatever. I sure hope the devs will let us be there when they announce the eggs! And I also hope that Peneloopee and Bloomanoo help defeat Scarlett in some small way, and get a little payback for the Quaggans.

I love Peneloopee! Though she did sound quite a lot like Chucky from Rugrats…though oddly it fit perfectly. I "awww"ed so much and just stood around at that camp for hours listening to her affected by the toxin and then her with Bloomanoo. So awesome. That was some of the best voicing and scripting I’ve ever witnessed…and it was unexpected and caught me completely by surprise.

I have also noticed that nobody has mentioned Cymbel and Nia at Cymbel’s Rescue in Fields of Ruin. I know they are both sylvari and the known behaviors of sylvari apply, but I’ve just not seen anyone actually refer to them as examples of same gender relationships in the game, regardless of species. I used to go there and just hang out and protect the area as there are several events there of defending them and also helping Nia rescue Cymbel’s hounds that had been taken from her.

MithranArkanere.8957:

In other games you don’t see much of that. When male homosexuals appear in video games, they are usually single characters, and often either evil or untrustworthy, or comic relief.

There aren’t a huge number of gay or lesbian characters in any computer games, and especially not in the MMO genre.

In fact, out of all the MMOs I have played over the past 8 or 9 years I can think of only two other same sex relationships that are shown or at least implied in game.
- Moose and Andy (The Secret World)
- Montgomery de la Roche and Arun Singh (The Secret World)
Note, both are male couples. That game doesn’t have any female couples that I can recall.

And given that Caithe and Faolain are not only exes, but also Sylvari, a non-human race that doesn’t distinguish between genders when it comes to relationships that makes Kas and Jory the sole lesbian relationship shown in any MMO anywhere (that I’m aware of anyway).

Which makes the OP’s complaint of Another Lesbian Relationship null and void seeing as there are no others to speak of.

Oh and yes I am aware that on SWTOR’s “Gay Planet” your republic female characters can flirt with and kiss a female NPC but only under the watchful and approving gaze of her father which I personally find a bit creepy. And it isn’t a relationship just a once off in a quest.

I just hope what has been created so far isn’t ruined because they feel the need to kill off one of the two woman (or have one of them cheat with Logan or any number of other cliched storylines that seems to get trotted out whenever there is a lesbian couple involved because the writers can’t think of anything to do with them).

MatthewMedina.5419:

Regarding trimming stories of all but the “relevant details”: I would say that many of us on the dev team would actually agree with the idea that how two characters relate to one another, regardless of whether that interaction has direct bearing on the direction of the main plot-line, can and should be considered relevant. Such breadth of character traits may advance a side-plot, or no plot at all and can be used to simply establish a personality type or a behavior which informs a character’s actions as they progress through the narrative.

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there. And if it advances a plot, great…if not, it’s still part of the landscape of those characters, and that’s really important to us, and something that I would say we are more than eager and willing to explore.

Does it have to be mutually exclusive? Why can’t Marjory be a member of the Order of the Whispers specifically tasked with investigating Scarlet? Suddenly she has a solid reason for turning up when Scarlet is around and she also represents her order’s presence in the story (instead of the story ignoring or marginalising them). The story would be stronger if the core cast carried some of that weight. Rather than being random heroes plucked out of their respective races and turning up for the sake of turning up, we could have characters that represent different organisations that should be represented in the story (and currently aren’t or are sidelined to give the spotlight to the core cast). If Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, and Braham were all taken out of the story tomorrow, would it have a big impact on the story? A lot of players are having trouble following the story, other players think it’s just flat out bad. I believe part of that problem falls on the decision to make so much of the story about characters that, while they are interesting on their own, they replace characters that should be present and parts of the story that should be told.

MithranArkanere.8957:

More like “with lesbian relationships they squee, with a gay one they screech”.

The cry for more homosexual relationships in pretty much everything is so strong that even in media without them, the fans will find one, probably many :P The shipping urge overcomes all.

In a lot of cases where the fans will be saying “It’s so obvious!”, it usually isn’t except to tumblr frequenters maybe, or people hypersensitive to purported “agendas”. Minus fan speculation and talk outside of the game and based purely on presentation in-game, I don’t honestly feel it’s as super obvious as everyone makes out – especially if you have any experience with very close, affectionate friendship.

If it is heading that way, I certainly don’t have a problem with it and I’m all for encouraging diversity in storytelling. I’ve seen people saying it’s been confirmed by devs but haven’t actually seen a source on that? At the end of the day, people saying it’s irrelevant to the plot probably wouldn’t kick up a fuss if Jory was a dude, because straight romance is shoehorned into a hell of a lot of things that would be better off without it, but few complain because it’s so common and expected. Put a straight relationship in a story and it’s traditional. Put a non-straight relationship in and it’s “political”, as though homosexuality is nothing more than the latest debate in the house of parliament instead of day to day life for swathes of the population.

The supporting characters are the only things in the whole Scarlet debacle that I can bring myself to care about, so to see a lot of character and character relationship development going on as an anchor to it all appeals to me a lot more than cardboard cutout supervillains doing their best team rocket impression every couple of weeks.

Basically, keep doing your thing with Jory and Kasmeer, Anet! They’re charming, whatever the nature of their relationship is or will be.

Shiren.9532:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Regarding trimming stories of all but the “relevant details”: I would say that many of us on the dev team would actually agree with the idea that how two characters relate to one another, regardless of whether that interaction has direct bearing on the direction of the main plot-line, can and should be considered relevant. Such breadth of character traits may advance a side-plot, or no plot at all and can be used to simply establish a personality type or a behavior which informs a character’s actions as they progress through the narrative.

Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there. And if it advances a plot, great…if not, it’s still part of the landscape of those characters, and that’s really important to us, and something that I would say we are more than eager and willing to explore.

Does it have to be mutually exclusive? Why can’t Marjory be a member of the Order of the Whispers specifically tasked with investigating Scarlet? Suddenly she has a solid reason for turning up when Scarlet is around and she also represents her order’s presence in the story (instead of the story ignoring or marginalising them). The story would be stronger if the core cast carried some of that weight. Rather than being random heroes plucked out of their respective races and turning up for the sake of turning up, we could have characters that represent different organisations that should be represented in the story (and currently aren’t or are sidelined to give the spotlight to the core cast). If Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, and Braham were all taken out of the story tomorrow, would it have a big impact on the story? A lot of players are having trouble following the story, other players think it’s just flat out bad. I believe part of that problem falls on the decision to make so much of the story about characters that, while they are interesting on their own, they replace characters that should be present and parts of the story that should be told.

they don’t seem to have any worse reason than the player characters do. in fact, Rox is the Black Citadel’s envoy tasked with dealing with the threat, Braham is her norn buddy that tags along because a) he wants revenge and b) he’s a norn, it’s an adventure, of course he’ll tag along. meanwhile, marjory has been hired (though i don’t remember if they ever say by who) around the nightmare alliance’s introduction to deal directly with scarlet, and kas is her underling/assistant/girlfriend.

seem like they have good enough reasons to me. it’s not like the orders aren’t involved either.

back on the topic of the OP, I am starting to get tired with the gay/lesbian stuff popping up everywhere. I mean, I am ok with it, I may disagree with it, but I wont hate them for it. Its just that I don’t want to have to see it. I would like to hear about it very little, if at all. almost every game has a gay/lesbian character in it, and its part of the main story so its unavoidable. its just getting annoying to me personally

MrPersons.1560:

back on the topic of the OP, I am starting to get tired with the gay/lesbian stuff popping up everywhere. I mean, I am ok with it, I may disagree with it, but I wont hate them for it. Its just that I don’t want to have to see it. I would like to hear about it very little, if at all. almost every game has a gay/lesbian character in it, and its part of the main story so its unavoidable. its just getting annoying to me personally

a whopping two times as far as the main story goes, with one or two other cases.

yeeeeaaaah… i can’t side with you. even if your post wasn’t homophobic.

BrunoBRS.5178:

a whopping two times as far as the main story goes, with one or two other cases.

yeeeeaaaah… i can’t side with you. even if your post wasn’t homophobic.

I don’t mean in only this game either, I mean in games in general.