Guild Wars 2

I think it fits fine in a fantasy game.
It’s just that in this case, it feels a bit forced. It’s far from subtle.

What does sexual orientation have to do with the fantasy genre?

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

What does sexual orientation have to do with the fantasy genre?

What does any kind of relationship have to do with the fantasy genre? Relationships are an important part of world building and creating compelling and relate-able characters – that’s what it has to do with the fantasy genre.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

What does sexual orientation have to do with the fantasy genre?

What does any kind of relationship have to do with the fantasy genre? Relationships are an important part of world building and creating compelling and relate-able characters – that’s what it has to do with the fantasy genre.

I’m mighty inclined to say people are opting for relationships to be optional, like in Dragonage/Baldur’s Gate etc etc

It’s more to do with how people approach this living story. Kinda like reading a book. There’s bound to be certain parts of it you don’t like even tho overall you love the story.

They kind of forced it upon us, by sitting through a five minute instance having them pick colors, names etc. It was rather irritating, when I could be doing more important things.

On a side note: I think it would be awesome, if Marjory died and Kasmeer goes off the deep end. That would be an amazing ending to the Living Story.

Eglesia.5049:

On a side note: I think it would be awesome, if Marjory died and Kasmeer goes off the deep end. That would be an amazing ending to the Living Story.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I’m pretty sure Ellen swings the other way. In the short story posted that showed Kasmeer’s arrival on Southsun it was sort of implied that she was attracted to Kasmeer. Either that or the writer really likes Kasmeer and let too much of that slip through in Ellen’s analysis of her.

(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Welcome_to_Paradise) <— Particularly paragraphs 7-10, but there are bits after that. Notably the way that Ellen almost addresses her as “My Lady”, but also the offering to be her personal body guard and the constant noticing of her appearance and demeanour. Or course you could chalk it up to Ellen being a very strong woman who is perhaps a little less “feminine” (I dislike that term though) because of her position as captain of the Lionguard/being raised by Magnus or whatever that story is (haven’t had time to read that because until just now didn’t know it existed….).

I was going to suggest that, but that’s just Ellen being polite to a noblewoman IMO. Addressing Kasmeer as “My Lady” would be a very common thing to do to noble women, at least in DR, and Ellen shows courtesy throughout our knowing her (except on the field where’s she’s crude and abrupt).

I wouldn’t put much into that. Not without other hints of interests in women.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I wouldn’t put much into that. Not without other hints of interests in women.

Can we take a disinterest of Lord Faren as a sign… No, I guess not otherwise like 98% of Tyria’s female population would be gay. I still think she might be, but I don’t think it’s something we are likely to see answered in game. I don’t think Ellen has the time for relationships and I kind of admire that she’s married to her work.

CharrGirl.7896:

Naranek.3467:

Thought I picked up a vibe from those two, despite limited play due to computer problems. Good for them, I think they’re cute together. So that means DON’T GO KILLING KASMEER! It’s like Personal Story all over again; entire time I’m running with the bomb tech from that nice Asura couple I’m thinking “yeah, he’s toast.”

Omg…you mean those 2 asura in one of the Orr missions? Yeah, actually with order mentor death this was the only other death that left me with a gaping jaw of disbelief when the little guy died. I remember there was real emotion and good writing there…

Yeah…we can stop killing good characters now. Hang in there Kasmeer! T-T

I actually thought “yeah, *she*’s toast.” Not sure why, but I found the non-combattant who’s protected by stealth magic and a combative hologram to be the one who dies… particularly when she’s placed away from me while the guy wasn’t.

So as the mission seemed to be coming to an end (the BEST of the three invasions into Cursed Shore storylines, IMO – it felt the most warlike and had the best cinematics of all the PS beyond the tutorials), I thought “oh, maybe this path doesn’t have someone die… After all the other path had 2 while the third had 1!” And then… he dies.

Zott, Tegwen, and the mentors (first time I played it, rip Tybalt) were the only deaths that affected me. All others were predictable to varying degrees or just uncaring.

ArenaNet needs to not kill for a nice long time – maybe two full arcs – and then kill off someone we have gotten to know well and long. Like… maybe Zojja. I’d suggest Trahearne or Logan but then you’d get this.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

Out of all the homosexual relationships listed before, I’m surprised that no one has even bothered to remember Tegwen and Carys. And then to add to the number of characters I liked that Anet has written out, Tegwen was killed off as well.

Not sure if that should be considered a spoiler or not…

Why all the character deaths? I sobbed when Tybalt died and then the deaths kept coming. Is killing any of the LS characters really necessary?

I don’t think Carys and Tegwen were a couple. It could be, of course, but it felt to me just like mentor and student.

They weren’t. They outright state that Tegwen’s like an older sister and teacher to Carys if you play the Act with Wisdom storyline. Bonus points if you do all steps with the two (sylvari Act with Wisdom; Priory helping them; bait the Eye of Zhaitan; do Vigil invasion into Cursed Shore). You get some special dialogue from Carys if you do at least the Act with Wisdom, bait the Eye, and Vigil’s invasion plan during The Source of Orr.

But yeah, they’re not lovers.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t think one or the other died. I only saw them on my human character in Orr, which made it seem like both made it out alive.

Though the journal mentions Tegwen dying if you do Through the Looking Glass (baiting the Eye of Zhaitan), she dies during the Vigil’s invasion plan into the Cursed Shore. She dies atop the Cathedral of Zephyres, in fact.

Nikku.3562:

Tegwen was probably the only character death that actually upset me. I didn’t even notice when Sieran died. I cheered when Tybalt died (seriously, people like him?). When Tegwen sacrificed herself I did /y TEGWEN, NOOOOOOO! She was only in the game for a short while, but her relationship (probably not Relationship though) with Carys was really well written, and Carys’ and Ballista Geargrind’s little eulogy to her was beautiful.

I still think of Tegwen whenever I’m wandering around the Grove.

Tegwen and Carys are actually some of the most active non-main story NPCs in the personal story (being in a total of… 9 story steps I think). Along with Snarl and Gallina from the Ash Legion/Vigil retaking Claw Island/fighting the Mouth of Zhaitan steps (whom enter a relationship at the end of the PS), and Kekt (Priory, Forging the Pact, and Priory’s invasion plan where he dies by a guy from early norn PS).

There’s a surprisingly large amount of NPCs from early story steps in Orr, but sadly you get a very small chance of figuring out which NPCs relate how. After my first character, I went out of my way to do Claw Island and Orr paths to get any old NPCs returning that I could.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

BrunoBRS.5178:

yeah, i saw her during the mirror mission, she made it out alive (that i recall), then i went with piloting an immortal megazord because honestly, why would you pick any of the other options? that’s one of the best missions in the game :P

so i’ll just pretend she lived through it :P

No, the best mission is the one following it with the Cauldron. Because using that thing against the Risen . . .

. . . mmmm, that was so satisfying

i fail to see how anything can be better than a golem-suit with a spammable instagib megalaser.

You can keep your golem and your cauldron. While using those were fun, I prefer the emotional experience the other two paths gave me. One being funny then sad (though I /facepalmed at the last bit when what’shisname from human tutorial sacrifices himself in a cinematic because why the hell would I not do anything to save him?), the other being epic then sad then REVENGE!

frostyraziel.1854:

I don’t want to be that guy, but please, anet, stop forcing this crap down our throats. Same-sex relationships are not something that fits a fantasy game. This helps in no way the lore that has already been damaged by the living story. I know you want to make the characters more compelling, but this will just make most people scratch their heads. At least keep it subtle.

Don’t even get me started on the multiracial things with Rox and Braham, because if it’s going in that direction, then this is just gross territory.

There are other ways to make us care about the characters without forcing this. GW2 living story really lacks good characters at the moment and this is not helping.

Not only is this post really homophobic sounding – especially since it’s wrong about homosexual relationships “not belonging” in a fantasy story (if heterosexual relationships fit, why can’t homosexual relationships fit?) – but it’s extremely rude IMO. It isn’t forcing no more than any other relationship would be, either. I now really wish this forum had downvote abilities.

Also, I think I’ve read that Rox admits that she had a mate in her previous warband and is still recovering from it in this update. So there’s nothing between Braham and Rox. Nor is there really any ever evidence of such. People take Braham’s mentions of friendships a bit too… well, I won’t insult their tastes even if I disagree.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think it fits fine in a fantasy game.
It’s just that in this case, it feels a bit forced. It’s far from subtle.

Why would it need to be subtle?

At least they aren’t making googly eyes at each other going “I wub u!” “No, I wub u!” “I wub u more!” “No, -I- wub u more!”

THAT to me is a ridiculous relationship, and the orientation doesn’t matter for jack.

I see no issue with their relationship, nor do I see any need for subtlety. Does Logan and Jennah have to be subtle to the readers? No? Then why should Kasmeer and Marjory? Why is lesbian relationships “fan service”? If anything of them was fan service, it was the ONE line after the Tower of Nightmares fell where Kasmeer said she was naked under an illusion. The rest of their relationship is nothing near fan service. It is storytelling. If you cannot tell the difference between them then I feel sorry for you.

And at this point I am getting tired of these complaints because of how asinine they are sounding as this goes on.

Eglesia.5049:

They kind of forced it upon us, by sitting through a five minute instance having them pick colors, names etc. It was rather irritating, when I could be doing more important things.

If you’re referring through the LA instance last update where the relationship was really shown to be there, it wasn’t forced since you could have left after talking to Ela. If you’re referring to this update… cannot comment, but from what I have heard the relationship is mentioned at the beginning by Rox and it’s not at all relevant to the remainder or the instance (aka the reason you had to “sit through five minutes”.

Eglesia.5049:

On a side note: I think it would be awesome, if Marjory died and Kasmeer goes off the deep end. That would be an amazing ending to the Living Story.

No. It would not be an amazing ending. It would be lame because it’s just ArenaNet singing the same note as throughout the Personal Story, and our hearts will become fully irrevocably jaded to ArenaNet’s characters and we will not care for them because “well they’ll just get killed off… oh look, I was right.”

the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…

BrunoBRS.5178:

the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…

Much better. I understand their desire to give players choices about what their character did, but if we had been able to do even half of the storylines for our race that we missed out on then it would all make more sense, have taken longer, and been a more fulfilling experience.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

BrunoBRS.5178:

the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…

Much better. I understand their desire to give players choices about what their character did, but if we had been able to do even half of the storylines for our race that we missed out on then it would all make more sense, have taken longer, and been a more fulfilling experience.

yeah, it’s kind of amusing just how much more structured the story feels if you actually play a sylvari. trahearne isn’t a random character they dump in, he’s a recurring character through your story, and that alone makes him far more bearable. it actually makes me wonder if the story wasn’t first written from a sylvari perspective >.>

BrunoBRS.5178:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

BrunoBRS.5178:

the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…

Much better. I understand their desire to give players choices about what their character did, but if we had been able to do even half of the storylines for our race that we missed out on then it would all make more sense, have taken longer, and been a more fulfilling experience.

yeah, it’s kind of amusing just how much more structured the story feels if you actually play a sylvari. trahearne isn’t a random character they dump in, he’s a recurring character through your story, and that alone makes him far more bearable. it actually makes me wonder if the story wasn’t first written from a sylvari perspective >.>

Ahh but open the Hero panel and go to the Personal Story tab. All the other races have intricate descriptions of each story mission – Sylvari quite often just have one or two sentences, sort of suggesting that theirs were done last and in a bit of a rush.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

BrunoBRS.5178:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

BrunoBRS.5178:

the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…

Much better. I understand their desire to give players choices about what their character did, but if we had been able to do even half of the storylines for our race that we missed out on then it would all make more sense, have taken longer, and been a more fulfilling experience.

yeah, it’s kind of amusing just how much more structured the story feels if you actually play a sylvari. trahearne isn’t a random character they dump in, he’s a recurring character through your story, and that alone makes him far more bearable. it actually makes me wonder if the story wasn’t first written from a sylvari perspective >.>

Ahh but open the Hero panel and go to the Personal Story tab. All the other races have intricate descriptions of each story mission – Sylvari quite often just have one or two sentences, sort of suggesting that theirs were done last and in a bit of a rush.

But by contrast, the writing of the actual story arcs is much more polished than that of the charr or norn.

In my opinion, it is more important for a person to be recognized for who they are rather than for what gender they are.

I think no fantasy game should be without same sex relationships, actually. Relationships are a reflection of what happens in reality. I don’t want only part of that reality, I want it all. Too many companies feel they need to surrender to homophobia, because they fear it doesn’t sell. I think that is gutless, but more importantly, the relationships in those games become downright shallow.

Kasmeer and Marjory’s story is arguably the greatest strength in Anets living story altogether; they’re the only ones that make it shine.

Sex sells. Putting a male gay relationship in the game would be less popular. Its that simple.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Also, I think I’ve read that Rox admits that she had a mate in her previous warband and is still recovering from it in this update. So there’s nothing between Braham and Rox. Nor is there really any ever evidence of such. People take Braham’s mentions of friendships a bit too… well, I won’t insult their tastes even if I disagree.

I think they are more like a new warband together, although she’d probably never admit it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

At least they aren’t making googly eyes at each other going “I wub u!” “No, I wub u!” “I wub u more!” “No, -I- wub u more!”

Actually, that’s exactly what the scene in the bar with the curtains, and the scene at the beach (which people are photobombing) felt like.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If anything of them was fan service, it was the ONE line after the Tower of Nightmares fell where Kasmeer said she was naked under an illusion. The rest of their relationship is nothing near fan service. It is storytelling. If you cannot tell the difference between them then I feel sorry for you.

To be honest, that one line is exactly what has sort of put a stain on the portrayal of this relationship for me. And I’m glad you acknowledge it as such too.

As a side note, if they killed off Logan, I think the rejoicing would be a lot louder than that.

Exosferatu.2961:

In my opinion, it is more important for a person to be recognized for who they are rather than for what gender they are.

Exactly. The characters themselves should be the powerhouses that drive the story, not the “relationships”. That’s secondary in GW2’s case. The world is imperiled by creatures who wish to destroy everyone regardless of their “relationships”. The Elder Dragons don’t care.

However, Buttercup brings up an excellent point. However we feel about Marjory and Kasmeer’s “relationship”, we can’t deny that they’re two of the strongest characters to come along since launch. Taimi looks to be very interesting (I haven’t fully checked out the new content pertaining to her), and we’re only just now beginning to get a little depth from Scarlet.

If Anet’s made any mistakes here, it’s that they should have introduced Scarlet’s torment sooner. By now so many players are fed up with her that they don’t really care about her true motivations.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

At least they aren’t making googly eyes at each other going “I wub u!” “No, I wub u!” “I wub u more!” “No, -I- wub u more!”

Actually, that’s exactly what the scene in the bar with the curtains, and the scene at the beach (which people are photobombing) felt like.

Really? To me it felt like Kasmeer trying to be silly and cheer Marjory up.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

At least they aren’t making googly eyes at each other going “I wub u!” “No, I wub u!” “I wub u more!” “No, -I- wub u more!”

Actually, that’s exactly what the scene in the bar with the curtains, and the scene at the beach (which people are photobombing) felt like.

Really? To me it felt like Kasmeer trying to be silly and cheer Marjory up.

Except I actually think she would put up curtains and will be looking for Black ones in the Dead End after we beat Scarlet lol. Wouldn’t that make a good first housing item? Black Curtains. A nice little nod to lore nerds

MatthewMedina.5419:

I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I personally would say that this release and the last are proof that it already has gotten much better

MatthewMedina.5419:

Tanith.5264:

If Anet’s made any mistakes here, it’s that they should have introduced Scarlet’s torment sooner. By now so many players are fed up with her that they don’t really care about her true motivations.

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I’m glad to hear that.

frostyraziel.1854:

I don’t want to be that guy, but please, anet, stop forcing this crap down our throats. Same-sex relationships are not something that fits a fantasy game. This helps in no way the lore that has already been damaged by the living story. I know you want to make the characters more compelling, but this will just make most people scratch their heads. At least keep it subtle.

Don’t even get me started on the multiracial things with Rox and Braham, because if it’s going in that direction, then this is just gross territory.

There are other ways to make us care about the characters without forcing this. GW2 living story really lacks good characters at the moment and this is not helping.

Given that my favorite fantasy author is Robert Jordan, I would vehemently disagree with that assessment. Anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, quite a few, in fact.

Also, what would be “gross” about Rox and Braham? The fact that they are different species? So are humans and Norn, but I don’t think anyone would deny that Norn are attractive (in fact there’s at least one thread about how Norn women are too pretty). If you were to say that a Norn-human relationship is fine but not a Norn-charr one, it would mean giving physical qualities primacy over emotional ones; basically that no matter how much they may or may not click, one doesn’t think the other looks good enough, so no luck.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Tanith.5264:

If Anet’s made any mistakes here, it’s that they should have introduced Scarlet’s torment sooner. By now so many players are fed up with her that they don’t really care about her true motivations.

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

well if the recent releases are anything to go by, color me excited.

Naranek.3467:

Given that my favorite fantasy author is Robert Jordan, I would vehemently disagree with that assessment. Anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, quite a few, in fact.

You forgot Mercedes Lackey (Vanyel) . . . and there’s Lois McMasters Bujold where it’s really not a problem (even if that’s science fiction). And then there’s J.K. Rowling, where it was there and never actually impacted the story negatively. It took the author stepping in and going “yes, he’s not into girls” to make it known.

But Anne McCaffrey . . . umm, not a good example. Not at all. I like some of her work but there are some author opinions there I really don’t want to get into.

Also, what would be “gross” about Rox and Braham? The fact that they are different species? So are humans and Norn, but I don’t think anyone would deny that Norn are attractive (in fact there’s at least one thread about how Norn women are too pretty). If you were to say that a Norn-human relationship is fine but not a Norn-charr one, it would mean giving physical qualities primacy over emotional ones; basically that no matter how much they may or may not click, one doesn’t think the other looks good enough, so no luck.

Norn-Human marriage happened before, well into the time of the Great Destroyer. Look up “Bear Club for Men” in the GW1 wiki. (It is also entertainingly hilarious.)

It was brought up, by the way – cross-species relationships cannot produce offspring.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Tanith.5264:

If Anet’s made any mistakes here, it’s that they should have introduced Scarlet’s torment sooner. By now so many players are fed up with her that they don’t really care about her true motivations.

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

Good to hear, I have noticed improvements as the releases go by.

Narcemus.1348:

MatthewMedina.5419:

I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I personally would say that this release and the last are proof that it already has gotten much better

It really did. Considering the uproar of the player base when they didn’t feel important enough, I had to laugh when reading Marjorys letter. “I can’t emphasize enough what of an important rule you played revealing Scarlets plans” well played, Anet

MatthewMedina.5419:

Tanith.5264:

If Anet’s made any mistakes here, it’s that they should have introduced Scarlet’s torment sooner. By now so many players are fed up with her that they don’t really care about her true motivations.

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

Your delivery has improved amazingly over the last two updates as well as the story elements.
I am very exited to see how it goes forward.

Good job, you guys are on the right track, especially with the inclusion of the player character

Romo.3709:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

heartbreaking seeing your mentor die for absolutely no reason…run into their deaths just for the sake of making the scene more dramatic

Honestly I believe that Sieran is the only one who was used to push a “dramatic” agenda. The other twos' actions were completely believable – ESPECIALLY given their dialogue.

Edit: This post really looks like an NSA document.

i think we can stop using spoiler tags now that everyone can access it. we can DEFINITELY stop using spoiler tags for freaking mid-level personal story instances :P

I really don’t like the Marjory + Kasmeer pairing. The fact that vocally Marjory sounds much older than Kasmeer, Marjory is Kasmeer’s employer, Kasmeer was in a desperate/vulnerable position when she came to Marjory, etc. It kind of seems like Marjory is taking advantage and that Kasmeer’s not really in a good emotional position (loss of father & home) to be making relationship decisions. (And yes, I’m probably adding a lot more depth to this than there actually is.) I would feel the same way if they’d made the Marjory character male, in fact, I think it would be a lot more obvious if that were the case.

Needless to say, I’m not feeling any great love here.

Miroe.2054:

Narcemus.1348:

MatthewMedina.5419:

I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I personally would say that this release and the last are proof that it already has gotten much better

It really did. Considering the uproar of the player base when they didn’t feel important enough, I had to laugh when reading Marjorys letter. “I can’t emphasize enough what of an important rule you played revealing Scarlets plans” well played, Anet

I felt so important being told I was wrong every time I selected the “incorrect” conclusion during the Scarlet instance. I knew what the “approved” answer would be before selecting (they were all leading answers) but I selected the other ones to see what would happen. The player involvement in the whole thing was just token involvement and after being corrected the whole way through the instance it was condescending to be told I was helpful.

Even the things we actually did were credited to NPCs. Ellen Kiel’s report on Thaumanova mentions discoveries about Scarlet’s involvement. I know I was in the Thaumanova fractal, I only saw Kiel interrogating Dessa. In that instance, why am I bothering to read Kiel’s report when my characters was the one actually in the instance?

The problem here is the difference being told something as opposed to showing it.

Shiren.9532:

Miroe.2054:

Narcemus.1348:

MatthewMedina.5419:

I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

I personally would say that this release and the last are proof that it already has gotten much better

It really did. Considering the uproar of the player base when they didn’t feel important enough, I had to laugh when reading Marjorys letter. “I can’t emphasize enough what of an important rule you played revealing Scarlets plans” well played, Anet

I felt so important being told I was wrong every time I selected the “incorrect” conclusion during the Scarlet instance. I knew what the “approved” answer would be before selecting (they were all leading answers) but I selected the other ones to see what would happen. The player involvement in the whole thing was just token involvement and after being corrected the whole way through the instance it was condescending to be told I was helpful.

Even the things we actually did were credited to NPCs. Ellen Kiel’s report on Thaumanova mentions discoveries about Scarlet’s involvement. I know I was in the Thaumanova fractal, I only saw Kiel interrogating Dessa. In that instance, why am I bothering to read Kiel’s report when my characters was the one actually in the instance?

The problem here is the difference being told something as opposed to showing it.

the characters aren’t giving your character those choices. the dialogue options are akin to your thoughts. so they don’t know the answer, you say something wrong, they correct you, then you say something right, and they’re enlightened.

and my character actually went as far as correcting the NPCs on what happened in twilight arbor. i liked it. i mean, short of introducing text recognition into the game, clicking the right dialogue choice is what we have.

As long as there is some actual story behind it I dont care
If it changes to sex and lies only…well…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUBiOOx0Pxw
:-D :-P

Scarlet’s going to die at the end of the Living story, just like everyone wants. However, we’re going to find out either that she was trying to prevent an even greater evil from spawning, and we stopped her, or she’ll succeed at spawning a greater evil, and we kill her just after she accomplishes it. And thus, Scarlet has more of an impact on the in game world than we have, despite us killing Zaithan.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i mean, short of introducing text recognition into the game, clicking the right dialogue choice is what we have.

In the Personal Story there is no “wrong” or “right” choice. You choose and it’s what happens. I understand the Living World has to have only one option because we all share it, but when that’s the case, being told I’m wrong and then being thanked in the end for figuring it out (by the people telling me I’m wrong), that feels like token involvement to me, especially when very little of the instance recognises that my character was present for all of those events.

Shiren.9532:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i mean, short of introducing text recognition into the game, clicking the right dialogue choice is what we have.

In the Personal Story there is no “wrong” or “right” choice. You choose and it’s what happens. I understand the Living World has to have only one option because we all share it, but when that’s the case, being told I’m wrong and then being thanked in the end for figuring it out (by the people telling me I’m wrong), that feels like token involvement to me, especially when very little of the instance recognises that my character was present for all of those events.

well first, the personal story’s only real choices branched the story into a thousand mini-nodes that harmed more than did good.

for the sake of concise storytelling and keeping all players on the same page, the living story is linear.

i understand that you want more choice, but that instance was not the right place for it. the alternative is what, you get it wrong and then game over? just think of it as skipping the game over screen and jumping back into the gameplay when you get something wrong. and of course she thanked you. you got it right eventually.

Found a very interesting article. A long one, but worth the read.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/28/flameseeker-chronicles-the-greatest-guild-wars-2-love-story-eve/

Hello! Expanding on the topic of this thread I would like to ask someone from the devs’ lore designers team to comment why the Sylvari race is generally presented as homosexual!

I astutely believe that every person’s bedroom business is their own, and one should not, in anyway, be humiliated or offended for the fact of having an unconventional orientation. On the other hand, I never understood the necessity to share these very private matters with the whole wide world! What is the motivation behind (goal to) this?

Now I really like the game, the stories, etc. I’d like to explore all charachters, races and storylines but I can’t! I can’t play a Sylvari because most general story arcs imply that characters around me lift each other’s togas! I can’t watch dialogues in Twilight Arbor! I am scared of Trahearne and skip all his dialogue speeches, and for all i know his next Wild Hunt could be after my poor giant Norn’s buttocks!

So is there really any need to put these topics up in a game? Should hetero- or kitten - or dendra- or any other sexual relations influence anyone’s gaming experience, and impede a person’s capability to experience content?

Thank you for answering these rhetorical questions!

iFruit.6190:

Hello! Expanding on the topic of this thread I would like to ask someone from the devs’ lore designers team to comment why the Sylvari race is generally presented as homosexual!

They aren’t. Homosexual would imply they are only interested in same sex partners. Sylvari would be best described as pansexual in that the gender of a potential partner does not influence them.

Sylvari are pansexual. They love others for their character and their personality, not for what their genitalia looks like. In some cases this leads to heterosexual pairings, and in some cases this leads to homosexual pairings. We do not have enough data points to say whether or not either is more prevalent than the other.

In any case, you can rest assured that Sylvari, unless they’re Nightmare Court (in which case you’d be in much deeper trouble), would never force their attentions or desires on you if it was unwelcome, so your fears are unwarranted. To be honest, it sounds like you’re panicking over a non-existent threat.

Sex and love are, and have always been, part of the memorable stories and relationships throughout human history. To remove them altogether would be to do a disservice to storywriters and to what makes life such an exciting place to be.

iFruit.6190:

Hello! Expanding on the topic of this thread I would like to ask someone from the devs’ lore designers team to comment why the Sylvari race is generally presented as homosexual!

I astutely believe that every person’s bedroom business is their own, and one should not, in anyway, be humiliated or offended for the fact of having an unconventional orientation. On the other hand, I never understood the necessity to share these very private matters with the whole wide world! What is the motivation behind (goal to) this?

Now I really like the game, the stories, etc. I’d like to explore all charachters, races and storylines but I can’t! I can’t play a Sylvari because most general story arcs imply that characters around me lift each other’s togas! I can’t watch dialogues in Twilight Arbor! I am scared of Trahearne and skip all his dialogue speeches, and for all i know his next Wild Hunt could be after my poor giant Norn’s buttocks!

So is there really any need to put these topics up in a game? Should hetero- or kitten – or dendra- or any other sexual relations influence anyone’s gaming experience, and impede a person’s capability to experience content?

Thank you for answering these rhetorical questions!

That’s funny. I don’t remember any bedroom activity in the sylvari personal story and I’ve played through most of the arcs as they’re my favourite race. I’m curious: could you not play human because of Logan’s “implied” relationship with Jenna? Did you avoid Flame and Frost because Braham is Eir’s son, which “implies” that she had a heterosexual partner at some point? Or do relationships only count as belonging in private when they’re “unconventional”?

What actually happens in the sylvari arcs is this: sylvari are actually pansexual (which means gender is irrelevant to them), so there are some relationships between males and females. There are some between male/male partners. There are some between two females. There are some referenced relationships between sylvari and their deceased partners. None of these, at any point, throw bedroom activity in your face, unless that is the connection you personally make when you think of a romantic relationship.

Character interactions and relationships, whether platonic, romantic, positive, negative, between different genders or different species, do not belong ‘in private’ – they are the storytelling force that makes any invented world, no matter how technically interesting, compelling. They add the human element that makes us care about the people in a world, which is incredibly important if you want us to also care about the enemies threatening them.

MatthewMedina.5419:

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

When me and my guildies entered the Dead End Bar for this Living Story, our guild leader commented: “Wow, we are actually being treated as the main character again”.

You can pass that along to the writing team.

iFruit.6190:

Hello! Expanding on the topic of this thread I would like to ask someone from the devs’ lore designers team to comment why the Sylvari race is generally presented as homosexual!

I astutely believe that every person’s bedroom business is their own, and one should not, in anyway, be humiliated or offended for the fact of having an unconventional orientation. On the other hand, I never understood the necessity to share these very private matters with the whole wide world! What is the motivation behind (goal to) this?

It is my opinion that video games as a medium are currently mingling in what could be called a sort of culture war. Homosexuality has made great strides, and become largely accepted in the past few years, but there are still many mediums that are struggling with it. You can see this in the portrayal of homosexual stereotypes in sitcoms.

Video games are also trying to put their stamp on it all, often forcibly so. This is why we’ve recently seen a lot of homosexual couples in videogames, like for example in Dragon Age and Mass Effect. But videogames are a bit of a clunky narrative driven medium. The writing often isn’t that good, and a lot of the writer’s good intentions can often come off as a bit forced and unnatural. The idea behind it is good, but I can see how some gamers may feel that they are getting their noses rubbed in it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

MatthewMedina.5419:

The past year of Living World has been a massive learning curve for us for many reasons, and there have been some areas like this where we agree that there is room for improvement. We’re committed to taking the lessons that we’ve learned over this year and applying them to how we author content and deliver story moving forward, and I’m confident that our storytelling in this format will get better and better as a result!

When me and my guildies entered the Dead End Bar for this Living Story, our guild leader commented: “Wow, we are actually being treated as the main character again”.

You can pas that along to the writing team.

I finally sat down last night and did the two “Dead End” instances and I have to say I was very, very impressed with the presentation. Makes me excited for the next chapter in the story!

Tanith.5264:

I finally sat down last night and did the two “Dead End” instances and I have to say I was very, very impressed with the presentation. Makes me excited for the next chapter in the story!

I concur. This feels like the first time in GW2 that I actually feel like I’m the main character. And I liked being able to choose my conclusions from the available evidence. It’s a clever way to get all the players up to speed on all the clues, while allowing the player to do some puzzling herself.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Tanith.5264:

I finally sat down last night and did the two “Dead End” instances and I have to say I was very, very impressed with the presentation. Makes me excited for the next chapter in the story!

I concur. This feels like the first time in GW2 that I actually feel like I’m the main character. And I liked being able to choose my conclusions from the available evidence. It’s a clever way to get all the players up to speed on all the clues, while allowing the player to do some puzzling herself.

It also gave xp and money, which you should get (in a better and nicer way like here) for doing the story and not champ chains in queensdale!

Emiko.3217:

I’m not the only one who’s noticed there’s something going on between Rox and Braham, even though it’s supposed to be only friendship. Can’t help to think there are some deeper, underlining feelings towards each other.

o.o
I thought I was the only one