Guild Wars 2

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

There is no such thing as a universally-appealing romance.

I don’t know I think we could all get behind an ooze romance.

SirMoogie.9263:

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

There is no such thing as a universally-appealing romance.

I don’t know I think we could all get behind an ooze romance.

Asura are the cutest thing ever, so if you get two asura together, who could hate it?

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

It’s never regarded as pushing a “social agenda” when it’s a straight romance.

No, then it’s simply called “shipper agenda”. I imagine gaming studios are pressured by them as well, though they may not be as aggressive. I’ve seen the impact they can have on other forms of entertainment, and it’s never good.

However, for the time being I’m content to simply sit back and enjoy the game, and see what happens next. We know that Anet is quietly monitoring this thread and the others like it, so hopefully they’ll make some awesome choices (like the one that gave us Taimi) with character and storytelling going forward.

SirMoogie.9263:

I don’t know I think we could all get behind an ooze romance.

That… that would be horrific. The noises alone would keep me up at night (and not in a good way).

Tanith.5264:

No, then it’s simply called “shipper agenda”. I imagine gaming studios are pressured by them as well, though they may not be as aggressive. I’ve seen the impact they can have on other forms of entertainment, and it’s never good.

I’ve genuinely never heard that term before. I’m not doubting it exists, though.

It’s just that with the hundreds of novels and games, hundreds of films I’ve seen, thousands of straight romances simply seem to elicit little-to-no condemnation for their presence. They may be condemned for being done badly (see: Star Wars: Episode II), but I’ve not once seen them accused of pandering to the straights, or shoehorning in a social agenda by their inclusion. It’s just… par for the course.

Hrmn… to be honest, I had similar thoughts when I first saw the cinematic in Scarlet’s Drill thing. It seemed sweet and all, but my literal thoughts were, in order:

“Another lesbian relationship?”
Followed by:
“Kind of wish they’d at least push Logan and Jennah’s, a neat Living Story concept with be the crowning of a new King of Kryta at the least.”

What I like about Kasmeer and Majory’s little relationship is that it wasn’t really a key part of the story. It was there to be enjoyed, to have a touching little moment with character’s we’ve known for some time. It’s not as big as Caithe and Faolin or Jennah and Logan.

Sure, I wouldn’t mind seeing a two-male relationship at some point that isn’t Sylvari. However, I’d -hate- to see two male characters added JUST for that. Kasmeer and Majory had bigger roles in the story.

Also, if Anet needs a male homosexual writer, sign me up. I have lots of ideas for interesting Living Story content. None of which is really based in homosexuality anyways, but still.

THANK YOU. How can privileged people be so kittening stingy? It’s nasty and petty and small minded. The one of THREE WHOLE GAMES I can think of that has consistent female authority figures and prominent gay relationships, and people can’t handle that? Think of all the times I have to sit there and swallow another straight romance, because it’s the only thing available and I want to experience the romance aspects of a game. Think of all the girls and women playing this game and many others who want to see themselves reflected in a positive light, instead of as an ornament, or the manipulative one, or the damsel in distress? After EONS of being in power relative to everyone else, straight cis men can’t give over a little? I’m sorry for being so heated but after DAYS of reading that kind of commentary, my heart hurts. Why must we always content ourselves with scraps? You don’t feel empowered straight white cis guy? Really? How much media oriented specifically to you do you need before you feel happy and important enough? And it’s so blithe too because you know somewhere inside that the protests of people who don’t have your advantages will only ever get so much attention, that you can freely toss our hurt and concerns and needs to the side with little to no impact on your life or your enjoyment of SERIOUSLY ALL THE MEDIA that strokes your balls daily.

Ugh.

Are you kidding me? Literally every other game ever is full of male-dominant power fantasies. It still isn’t enough for you, though? Like when there’s finally a game that has many female characters (but also still many male ones) in positions of power and authority, then uh oh, can’t be letting the world not completely revolve around men for once.

I know this word sets off a lot of alarms in people’s heads, but sheesh, talk about not recognizing your privilege. If “too much feminism” means “men and women are more or less equals in this game” then I’m a proud feminist. Bring on more feminism, anet.

Speaking of, why does the idea of women “bossing you around” upset you so, but men bossing you around doesn’t? Women shouldn’t be allowed to outrank you? You always have to be dominant over them? Please.

If you want “male empowerment,” all you have to do is go and play literally any other game.

As for Marjory/Kasmeer, well, let’s just say that most of these discussions wouldn’t even be happening if it weren’t between two women. Just because they’re both attractive women doesn’t mean they’re “fan-service” or “forced,” sheesh. Couples occur in real life, I dunno why some people are so afraid of seeing romance in their games. Particularly healthy, non-abusive romances. Just because caithe and faolain are troubled and emo doesn’t make it better or more realistic writing.

[quote=3724617;Dubbleyew.1029:]

What people don’t or do not want to realize is the concept of heteronormativity. Hetero stuff is assumed to be the default, the correct way to do things, the natural way people exist. Therefore people don’t notice straight relationships the same way because they’re just assumed. It’s a symptom of privilege that every single gay relationship sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is that enough hetero relationships for ya? Did ya notice the introduction of Rox’s deceased mate? There are hetero relationships around, people just don’t look for them apparently…

I tried to get a few of my friends back to GW2 by showing them that the Elder Dragons are again the focus of the game. Too bad Anet put the lesbian scene at the worst time, and now none of my friends can take the game seriously.

frostyraziel.1854:

I tried to get a few of my friends back to GW2 by showing them that the Elder Dragons are again the focus of the game. Too bad Anet put the lesbian scene at the worst time, and now none of my friends can take the game seriously.

And that’s the issue of revealing these kinds of things. I mean, let’s be honest, the kiss revealing the relationship wasn’t -necessary-. It was added, and if we’re being honest, it was likely added just for the sake of being added. I’m not unhappy that it was added, but often times I think that those kinds of fun facts should be kept to novels or interviews with the writers. It doesn’t necessarily have a place in the story.

I really don’t see all the issues people have with the kiss.

If you had a relationship with someone, and you thought that your partner was dead, would you not kiss him/her/it when he/she/it turns out to be alive? I don’t know about you, but I would say that is a very realistic and logical reaction.

But I suppose gay couples aren’t allowed to show love?

lordkrall.7241:

I really don’t see all the issues people have with the kiss.

If you had a relationship with someone, and you thought that your partner was dead, would you not kiss him/her/it when he/she/it turns out to be alive? I don’t know about you, but I would say that is a very realistic and logical reaction.

But I suppose gay couples aren’t allowed to show love?

I would have loved it if Marjory brought Kasmeer’s head on her chest.

It would have still shown they are in love, it would have been less expected and would have been more tied to the kind of relationship they have (they are in love, but Marjory is like a motherly figure for Kasmeer)

redslion.9675:

lordkrall.7241:

I really don’t see all the issues people have with the kiss.

If you had a relationship with someone, and you thought that your partner was dead, would you not kiss him/her/it when he/she/it turns out to be alive? I don’t know about you, but I would say that is a very realistic and logical reaction.

But I suppose gay couples aren’t allowed to show love?

I would have loved it if Marjory brought Kasmeer’s head on her chest.

It would have still shown they are in love, it would have been less expected and would have been more tied to the kind of relationship they have (they are in love, but Marjory is like a motherly figure for Kasmeer)

I actually like that Marjory was the one needed protecting this time, it showed that Kasmeer isn’t just a damsel to be protected by her.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Asura are the cutest thing ever, so if you get two asura together, who could hate it?

I could, I would, and I already hate it enough to be plotting ruining that wedding.

Vexander.9850:

frostyraziel.1854:

I tried to get a few of my friends back to GW2 by showing them that the Elder Dragons are again the focus of the game. Too bad Anet put the lesbian scene at the worst time, and now none of my friends can take the game seriously.

And that’s the issue of revealing these kinds of things. I mean, let’s be honest, the kiss revealing the relationship wasn’t -necessary-. It was added, and if we’re being honest, it was likely added just for the sake of being added. I’m not unhappy that it was added, but often times I think that those kinds of fun facts should be kept to novels or interviews with the writers. It doesn’t necessarily have a place in the story.

It was added because it’s a poor relationship where they won’t show affection when one of them nearly dies. It was added because it was a natural extension of their character relationship (never mind their sexual one).

I know if my best friend (eight years now, most of my adult life) almost died in my presence and wound up coming back like that? I’d certainly at least hug him and cry . . .

Can we please stop assuming the characters cannot be permitted to behave like actual emotional beings, just because we don’t like what happens? I mean, for all we gripe about Logan and his convoluted stuff . . . that’s part of being a person. All of it is understandable for a person to do, including that thing with Rytlock. I don’t like it, I think it’s immature, but . . . I know people who were exactly like that when their friendship dissolved. To the point one of them moved across town for no other reason than to never bump into the other in the grocery store.

lordkrall.7241:

I really don’t see all the issues people have with the kiss.

If you had a relationship with someone, and you thought that your partner was dead, would you not kiss him/her/it when he/she/it turns out to be alive? I don’t know about you, but I would say that is a very realistic and logical reaction.

But I suppose gay couples aren’t allowed to show love?

Speaking as a gay person, if I had a relationship with someone and thought they were dead, I would not kiss them when it turns out they’re alive. I would immediately get them somewhere safe so their injuries can be properly treated, and then in privacy share my emotions of gratitude and relief with them. As it is, Kasmeer played into the over-emotional woman trope and in my opinion, that’s disappointing.

I’ll also add the Gay/Lesbian characters I have always enjoyed are the ones I never would have realized are Gay/Lesbian. I like learning that characters I’ve enjoyed have those orientations/lifestyles from other material, whether its Word of God (Dumbledore is Gay) or something as simple as a novel with the setting of an MMO. If Kasmeer and Marjory had been revealed to us in a novel, or a short story, I’d honestly like that better. A game isn’t the best medium to portray a story in. Things have to be kept short, concise, and fast so that players can play the game rather than watching a movie or reading a book.

To be frank, I never would have figured Kasmeer and Marjory were a couple. They always seemed more like sisters to me. It was an interesting surprise. Not unpleasant, but the medium it was given to us in wasn’t ideal.

AFAIK, there is no law in Kryta against gay or lesbian relationships. None of the 6 gods said anything about that neither. Lyssa is pretty much in a lesbian relationship with herself. :P

No one in the game said anything against these relationships. When Marjory and Kasmeer kissed, Rox and Braham couldn’t care less.

All signs indicates that homosexual relationships are wildly accepted in Kryta.

Cantha maybe a different story. They may include that Asian ultra-conservative culture in that area.

CHIPS.6018:

AFAIK, there is no law in Kryta against gay or lesbian relationships. None of the 6 gods said anything about that neither. Lyssa is pretty much in a lesbian relationship with herself. :P

Cantha maybe a different story.

I doubt such a law exists in Cantha, they worship the same Six Gods as the rest of Humanity. I don’t think the Norn care, the Charr probably have homosexual relationships based on the closeness of Warbands, and we know the Sylvari don’t even have gender roles in their society. I don’t like to think of the Asura in any way when it comes to romance, orientation, or anything sexual, but I doubt they care much either.

Vexander.9850:

CHIPS.6018:

AFAIK, there is no law in Kryta against gay or lesbian relationships. None of the 6 gods said anything about that neither. Lyssa is pretty much in a lesbian relationship with herself. :P

Cantha maybe a different story.

I doubt such a law exists in Cantha, they worship the same Six Gods as the rest of Humanity. I don’t think the Norn care, the Charr probably have homosexual relationships based on the closeness of Warbands, and we know the Sylvari don’t even have gender roles in their society. I don’t like to think of the Asura in any way when it comes to romance, orientation, or anything sexual, but I doubt they care much either.

Maybe the Tengu’s will care. :P

CHIPS.6018:

Vexander.9850:

CHIPS.6018:

AFAIK, there is no law in Kryta against gay or lesbian relationships. None of the 6 gods said anything about that neither. Lyssa is pretty much in a lesbian relationship with herself. :P

Cantha maybe a different story.

I doubt such a law exists in Cantha, they worship the same Six Gods as the rest of Humanity. I don’t think the Norn care, the Charr probably have homosexual relationships based on the closeness of Warbands, and we know the Sylvari don’t even have gender roles in their society. I don’t like to think of the Asura in any way when it comes to romance, orientation, or anything sexual, but I doubt they care much either.

Maybe the Tengu’s will care. :P

They’re not playable, so I don’t care about them. Granted I know they were almost the sixth playable race, but I’m honestly glad they weren’t. I’d rather see a more interesting race be made playable before the Tengu.

Vexander.9850:

often times I think that those kinds of fun facts should be kept to novels or interviews with the writers. It doesn’t necessarily have a place in the story.

So homosexuality belongs out of sight, should be placed in… lets say… a closet of sorts?

Yeah. I guess my opinion in this regards can be best expressed in bad 80s music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3G-X4K1DcM

I have very mixed feelings about the “kiss-scene”. On the one hand I applaud them for having the guts and the maturity to have these two characters kiss clearly in a scene.

But on the other hand it feels a bit forced and heavy handed. As if the writers are saying: Look at us, we’re showing two girls kiss! Because!

I think the intention is good, but the problem is that they’re still not treating a same sex relationship as normal. It’s like they’ve swung to the other end of the spectrum, and are too focused on it them selves. Just treat it like a normal relationship, why is that so hard? You don’t need to show them kiss explicitly in a close up, just to be edgy. It felt forced.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I have very mixed feelings about the “kiss-scene”. On the one hand I applaud them for having the guts and the maturity to have these two characters kiss clearly in a scene.

But on the other hand it feels a bit forced and heavy handed. As if the writers are saying: Look at us, we’re showing two girls kiss! Because!

We had this talk before. It doesn’t come off to me as “heehee lookit the lesbians!” it comes off as two characters who actually have grown into the part rather than it getting put in at the last minute for ratings. I’ve seen that tactic used badly before (Law & Order).

It’s been somewhat forming since I notices Kasmeer hanging around Marjory before Tower of Nightmares. And some intense, dangerous experiences have rather tempered it forward some.

I swear it comes off more as someone kissing a loved one in relief they’re alive and true affection rather than anything more exploitative. Especially given what we heard about Kasmeer’s issues with loved ones disappearing from her life in the past.

I think the intention is good, but the problem is that they’re still not treating a same sex relationship as normal.

Yes. They. Are.

What happened here is the same as you getting “The Big Kiss” in a movie between two people of different genders. With moderately less fanfare (no swelling music in the soundtrack, no orbiting camera and slow clap…).

Few patches ago they were “negotiating”. The kiss is their “seal on the contract”. So, yes, the kiss scene was necessary.

CharrGirl.7896:

redslion.9675:

lordkrall.7241:

I really don’t see all the issues people have with the kiss.

If you had a relationship with someone, and you thought that your partner was dead, would you not kiss him/her/it when he/she/it turns out to be alive? I don’t know about you, but I would say that is a very realistic and logical reaction.

But I suppose gay couples aren’t allowed to show love?

I would have loved it if Marjory brought Kasmeer’s head on her chest.

It would have still shown they are in love, it would have been less expected and would have been more tied to the kind of relationship they have (they are in love, but Marjory is like a motherly figure for Kasmeer)

I actually like that Marjory was the one needed protecting this time, it showed that Kasmeer isn’t just a damsel to be protected by her.

Sure, but Kasmeer is still the “young one”. Even if she’s the protector this time, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t see Marjory as a bigger sister anymore.

In general romances in this game might be “concept-based”, more than character-based (characters in an MMO might not have enoug developement, or it might become hard to find… by making a romance theme based, you can make something interesting while being recognizable, making also foundation for future developement).

Example: Jennah/Logan relationship seems like an odd version of courtly love. Logan is completely devoted to his lady as a soldier and as a man, but we never know how much this comes from loyalty, affection or magic boundaries. Which makes it pretty dark too.

CharrGirl.7896:

I actually like that Marjory was the one needed protecting this time, it showed that Kasmeer isn’t just a damsel to be protected by her.

I really liked that, too. Really liked it. They didn’t take away Kasmeer’s very emotional and nervous personality in order to make her brave and forward; she retaliated in spite of her fear.

People often throw around the term “strong female character” and, by it, they mean female characters who are cold and fierce and don’t show any significant emotion in the face of danger, as if it’s weakness to do otherwise. Marjory might fall into the standard “strong female character” bracket as she’s very emotionally tough, independent and can hold her own, but while Kasmeer has been shown to be quite clingy and emotional and got upset and panicky in that scene, she still managed to kick kitten and do what needed to be done.

It is not entirely related to their romance, but one thing Anet is very good at is diversity of female characters – which is not that hard to achieve when you have more than a token handful of them in a cast, but even that’s progressive in its own right.

CureForLiving.5360:

Vexander.9850:

often times I think that those kinds of fun facts should be kept to novels or interviews with the writers. It doesn’t necessarily have a place in the story.

So homosexuality belongs out of sight, should be placed in… lets say… a closet of sorts?

Yeah. I guess my opinion in this regards can be best expressed in bad 80s music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3G-X4K1DcM

Way to take my words out of context. Am I the only homosexual who’s trying to see the other side of the fence and look at the whole event in an unbiased and calm manner to see if there -are- any problems at all? I voiced my opinion. Hate it if you want, or stop halfway through reading to get angry and post a snarky reply. In case you’re that angry that someone could voice a dissenting opinion though and don’t feel like going back to read, I’ll repost why I feel that way below.

A video game is not a great medium for a Story. Players want to -play- a game, not watch a movie, or read a book. Because of this, content such as cut scenes and forced dialogue has to be kept short, so as not to interrupt the flow of gameplay. You can’t really get into the meat of a story because of this. A novel, a short story, etc… provides a much better medium. I would rather have read one about Marjory and Kasmeer than just had a simple scene that, contextually speaking, didn’t need to happen.

Yes, I said it didn’t need to happen. If you take that scene away, it changes -nothing- about the instance dungeon and the story. It has no impact on it. Marjory and Rox are both still injured, Scarlet is still dead, the Elder Dragon still gets woken up, and the drill still explodes.

That kiss would have been -much- more appropriate in another cut scene after the fact, showing our heroes celebrating in a tavern somewhere, or at the refugee camps.

Vexander.9850:

A video game is not a great medium for a Story. Players want to -play- a game, not watch a movie, or read a book. Because of this, content such as cut scenes and forced dialogue has to be kept short, so as not to interrupt the flow of gameplay. You can’t really get into the meat of a story because of this. A novel, a short story, etc… provides a much better medium. I would rather have read one about Marjory and Kasmeer than just had a simple scene that, contextually speaking, didn’t need to happen.

Plenty of games still tell a decent story regardless of this, and now you’re moving to defining what’s appropriate for game development as well as appropriate for how much affection should be shown.

You are not really making me want to agree with your views, here. Yes some games should throw in the towel with trying to tell an awesome story, and some games don’t need an epic novel of story crammed into it . . . we don’t need 1000 pages of script to tell us why Pac-Man exists, or why Mega Man is still fighting Dr Wily.

But consider this – if it weren’t for script and story? “Portal” would have been forgotten as a weird little puzzle game-mod.

Yes, I said it didn’t need to happen. If you take that scene away, it changes -nothing- about the instance dungeon and the story. It has no impact on it. Marjory and Rox are both still injured, Scarlet is still dead, the Elder Dragon still gets woken up, and the drill still explodes.

And if you take away “I love you.” “I know.” from Empire Strikes Back it doesn’t change anything of the movie’s ending act at all. But it does show character development and thus is just as important.

Taking away character development because it doesn’t change how the details of the story work weakens the story overall.

That kiss would have been -much- more appropriate in another cut scene after the fact, showing our heroes celebrating in a tavern somewhere, or at the refugee camps.

You’re not exactly wrong, but you’re not exactly right either. It’s appropriate, sure. But there’s not much wrong with the circumstances the two share the kiss this time. It’s after the known danger of Scarlet has been done, and it wasn’t a long thing at all to be unbelievable.

Vexander.9850:

CureForLiving.5360:

Vexander.9850:

often times I think that those kinds of fun facts should be kept to novels or interviews with the writers. It doesn’t necessarily have a place in the story.

So homosexuality belongs out of sight, should be placed in… lets say… a closet of sorts?

Yeah. I guess my opinion in this regards can be best expressed in bad 80s music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3G-X4K1DcM

Way to take my words out of context. Am I the only homosexual who’s trying to see the other side of the fence and look at the whole event in an unbiased and calm manner to see if there -are- any problems at all? I voiced my opinion. Hate it if you want, or stop halfway through reading to get angry and post a snarky reply. In case you’re that angry that someone could voice a dissenting opinion though and don’t feel like going back to read, I’ll repost why I feel that way below.

A video game is not a great medium for a Story. Players want to -play- a game, not watch a movie, or read a book. Because of this, content such as cut scenes and forced dialogue has to be kept short, so as not to interrupt the flow of gameplay. You can’t really get into the meat of a story because of this. A novel, a short story, etc… provides a much better medium. I would rather have read one about Marjory and Kasmeer than just had a simple scene that, contextually speaking, didn’t need to happen.

Yes, I said it didn’t need to happen. If you take that scene away, it changes -nothing- about the instance dungeon and the story. It has no impact on it. Marjory and Rox are both still injured, Scarlet is still dead, the Elder Dragon still gets woken up, and the drill still explodes.

That kiss would have been -much- more appropriate in another cut scene after the fact, showing our heroes celebrating in a tavern somewhere, or at the refugee camps.

A video game is the best medium for a story. I don’t want to play my games, I want to experience them. A game isnt a great game unless you can experience it, and sort of feel the moment.

The kiss helped to get the feeling of how glad Kasmeer was that Marjory was alive after thinking Scarlet just killed her. Maybe it didn’t need to be a kiss, a hug would have got the point across, or even tone of voice, but the scene isnt ruined because two women kissed.

I can’t think of a hetero relationship in game you don’t have to dig through minor NPC dialogue to find. I’m rooting for one. I’d like to see this couple have children and grow old together.
The only pairings I know of are:
Logan and Jenna, which to read the book I highly doubted Jenna’s intentions because it sounded more like mind control to me. Convenient to have a Seraph thrall protect you.
Eir and the Dolyak Shaman
The two quaggan Peneloopee and Bloomanoo – Frankly the only couple I’m hopeful for.
Adoption in Tyria would be interesting if Kas and Jory follow that same route.
Rox and Braham would have been an interesting one too. There’s no cross-race pairing.
I just don’t want the game to go the way of Glee or Desperate Housewives. Everyone unconvincingly came out in those shows.

Sylvari hetero pairings:
1. Morrigu and Leurent
Tiachren and Ysvelta
Gairwen and Evart
4. Variella and Hanar
Lintoina and Garrett
Leanuit and Santach
Erisdae and her partner
A citizen and his love in Ronan’s Bower
Two sylvari citizens in the Garden of Night

Non-sylvari same-sex pairings:
2. Marjory and Kasmeer
3. Linnea and a female player character
4. Fronis and her mate
Saldis and her girlfriend
Wjerd and Fibharr
Exiffa and her partner

Non-sylvari hetero pairings:
1. Jennah and Logan
Kazz and Doxa
Tonn and Ceera
Ralena and Vassar
Snarl and Galina
2. Eir and Borje
Braham and Ottilia
Ottilia and Ebbe
Rox and Nonus
Peneloopee and Bloomanoo
Merri and Fel
Lyrica and Ewan
Lyrica and Oswald
Oswald and Zola
Oswald and Henrietta
Oswald and Estrella
Oswald and 4 other women
Fenn and Maisie
Rufus and his wife
Faren and Jasmina
Minister and Lady Wi
Deborah and Beirne
Elli and Zott
Senna and her partner
Caudecus and his wife
Doern and his wife
Forgal and his wife
Citizen that Faren hits on and her husband
Bartender in “Desperate Medicine” and his wife
Uptown Johnny and a female player character
3. Dwayna and Malchor
Cassie and Mepi
Wrelk and Broga
Jaden and Aaron
Remi and Trundle
Famke and Wjerd (unconfirmed)
Pier and Esmet
Levvi and Blingg
Harlow and Dotta
Kalle and Aldis
Eda and her husband
Myr and her husband
Kimber and her husband
Webb and his wife
Gareth and his wife
Traveling noble and her husband
Kevach and a female player character
Linnea and a male player character
4. Eir and Krennak (his dialogue suggests they had something)
Yngvi and Brynhildr
Aggren and Marcela
Gwen and Keiran
Althea and Rurik
Via and Feros
Knut and Gaerta
Bandito and Seraphette
Lord and Lady Marduke
Nellie and Caden
Dugh and Amaybel
Jorge and Bethsha
Diah and Jeb
Russ and Cicely
Welkin and Alicia
Gunther and Ine
Cobiah and Isaye
Tessa and Logan
Citizen in Rurikton and Tessa
Weyandt and at least 4 of the 12-ish people he married, if not all of them
Eliza and her husband
Arlo and his wife
Kol and his “woman”
Lyasa and her husband
Watchful Moon and his wife
Vollym and his wife
Dessa and her boyfriend
Brother-in-law of the citizen in District Promenade and his wife
Citizen who talks to the Priest of Lyssa in DR and the woman he loves
Noble in Ossan Quarter and his wife
Enthusiastically married couple in Ascalon Settlement
Refugee steadholder and her mate (unknown gender but they had children)
Guard formerly of Blue Ice Shining and his/her mate (unknown genders but they had children)

Wow, that’s a lot of digging into NPC dialogue. I find myself saying Who to most of them though. And showing the bias for lesbian same-sex couples too.
I’ll list the ones I’ve encountered and remember, believed to be a couple, and their current status.
Tonn and Ceera – Tonn dead
Ralena and Vassar – both dead, enemies to the player
Braham and Ottilia – Ottilia’s a maneater
Rox and Nonus – Nonus dead
Merri and Fel – Cute couple, completely avoidable in Personal story

Matt H.6142:

Wow, that’s a lot of digging into NPC dialogue. I find myself saying Who to most of them though. And showing the bias for lesbian same-sex couples too.
I’ll list the ones I’ve encountered and remember, believed to be a couple, and their current status.
Tonn and Ceera – Tonn dead

Ceera is also dead, don’t you remember, she was killed by risen on the beach while running away from you.
Also that is completely avoidable in the PS too, you don’t need to meet them.

People sees what they want to see clearly.
Sad that some parts of the world still haven’t evolved enough to stop seeing homosexuality as an issue.

I also just have to say I think Kasmeer is the best character in the game so far. Team Kasmeer!

Vexander.9850:

Yes, I said it didn’t need to happen. If you take that scene away, it changes -nothing- about the instance dungeon and the story. It has no impact on it. Marjory and Rox are both still injured, Scarlet is still dead, the Elder Dragon still gets woken up, and the drill still explodes.

No it is important as it shows the process of the relationship. Something they’ve been working on for months. Why can’t GW2 have sub-plots occurring along with the main-plot? Why can’t a single event progress multiple plot lines? Why can’t we defeat Scarlet and see the progression Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship? I don’t see you complaining about how Rox and Brahams relationships was also progressed during the same event.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes. They. Are.

What happened here is the same as you getting “The Big Kiss” in a movie between two people of different genders. With moderately less fanfare (no swelling music in the soundtrack, no orbiting camera and slow clap…).

I respectfully disagree. It felt to me like they were going for “the money shot”. As if everything had been leading up to that kiss. It was almost as if the writers felt the need to prove that they really are a romantic couple, and that yes, they’re not afraid to show it.

That’s why to me it felt forced and heavy handed. I don’t mind their decision to include it, and I think the intention is good. But it seems to me that the writers are still struggling with how to handle the concept of homosexual relationships in a videogame.

When ever videogame writers tackle these sorts of topics, it often feel like they are struggling to find a sheet of paper, and then knock over the vial of ink by accident.

Vexander.9850:

Speaking as a gay person, if I had a relationship with someone and thought they were dead, I would not kiss them when it turns out they’re alive. I would immediately get them somewhere safe so their injuries can be properly treated, and then in privacy share my emotions of gratitude and relief with them. As it is, Kasmeer played into the over-emotional woman trope and in my opinion, that’s disappointing.

Extremely well said and other than the fact that I am straight, I couldn’t agree more. Had my wife been in a near fatal accident, my first reaction (and I’d guess most peoples first reaction) would not be to tongue them. This happens in movies a lot too (usually between straight couples) and it’s just plain silly.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes. They. Are.

What happened here is the same as you getting “The Big Kiss” in a movie between two people of different genders. With moderately less fanfare (no swelling music in the soundtrack, no orbiting camera and slow clap…).

I respectfully disagree. It felt to me like they were going for “the money shot”. As if everything had been leading up to that kiss. It was almost as if the writers felt the need to prove that they really are a romantic couple, and that yes, they’re not afraid to show it.

That’s why to me it felt forced and heavy handed. I don’t mind their decision to include it, and I think the intention is good. But it seems to me that the writers are still struggling with how to handle the concept of homosexual relationships in a videogame.

When ever videogame writers tackle these sorts of topics, it often feel like they are struggling to find a sheet of paper, and then knock over the vial of ink by accident.

Well kiss didn’t make me to dislike them any more or less than I already do. Although Kas’ eyes freaked me out a bit.

Considering pvp developement might be nonexistant because of living story.

We pvpers got sacrificed for that stupid kiss! Q_Q

CureForLiving.5360:

Vexander.9850:

Yes, I said it didn’t need to happen. If you take that scene away, it changes -nothing- about the instance dungeon and the story. It has no impact on it. Marjory and Rox are both still injured, Scarlet is still dead, the Elder Dragon still gets woken up, and the drill still explodes.

No it is important as it shows the process of the relationship. Something they’ve been working on for months. Why can’t GW2 have sub-plots occurring along with the main-plot? Why can’t a single event progress multiple plot lines? Why can’t we defeat Scarlet and see the progression Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship? I don’t see you complaining about how Rox and Brahams relationships was also progressed during the same event.

Again, in -my opinion- (so feel free to discard it), it was neither the time nor the place for the relationship sub-plot to be advanced, and it made Kasmeer seem like a blatant, negative-gender stereotype trope. That’s what I don’t like about it. I’d much rather their relationship had its own cutscene elsewhere to progress it, rather than getting cut short and forced somewhere it didn’t feel natural. As for Rox and Braham, I don’t see how their relationship advanced there. They were -already- very loyal friends to one another, had already shown a willingness to give up their own pursuits for the other. That just re-affirmed their existing relationship and gave it context to the situation.

Vexander.9850:

Again, in -my opinion- (so feel free to discard it), it was neither the time nor the place for the relationship sub-plot to be advanced, and it made Kasmeer seem like a blatant, negative-gender stereotype trope. That’s what I don’t like about it. I’d much rather their relationship had its own cutscene elsewhere to progress it, rather than getting cut short and forced somewhere it didn’t feel natural.

This is how it felt to me as well. It really was a sort of “I’m ready for my big giant lesbian kiss now mister director. Cue closeup!” -kind of moment. It felt really ham-fisted. As if the whole purpose of the scene was not just to advance the romantic sub plot, but to have a lesbian kiss in there just at the last second.

Advancing a romantic sub plot is good. Having a lesbian kiss scene for the sake of having a lesbian kiss scene, is bad. I feel videogames quite often venture into this well-intentioned but poorly executed portrayal of same-sex relationships.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Vexander.9850:

Again, in -my opinion- (so feel free to discard it), it was neither the time nor the place for the relationship sub-plot to be advanced, and it made Kasmeer seem like a blatant, negative-gender stereotype trope. That’s what I don’t like about it. I’d much rather their relationship had its own cutscene elsewhere to progress it, rather than getting cut short and forced somewhere it didn’t feel natural.

This is how it felt to me as well. It really was a sort of “I’m ready for my big giant lesbian kiss now mister director. Cue closeup!” -kind of moment. It felt really ham-fisted. As if the whole purpose of the scene was not just to advance the romantic sub plot, but to have a lesbian kiss in there just at the last second.

Advancing a romantic sub plot is good. Having a lesbian kiss scene for the sake of having a lesbian kiss scene, is bad. I feel videogames quite often venture into this well-intentioned but poorly executed portrayal of same-sex relationships.

I’d honestly have rather had the scene somewhere more appropriate. Whether they’re celebrating in Divinity’s Reach, standing beside the Queen as she gives a speech to the city of Scarlet’s Fall, or if its among the refugee camps outside of Lion’s Arch. It was a touching scene, and a nice addition to their relationship. It just didn’t feel like the right time or place, and as a result, it felt like a cop out to their relationship.

None of ya’ll would be raging for this long if it was a hetero couple kiss. Nuff said.

CharrGirl.7896:

None of ya’ll would be raging for this long if it was a hetero couple kiss. Nuff said.

I would. I hate kisses in media.

redslion.9675:

CharrGirl.7896:

None of ya’ll would be raging for this long if it was a hetero couple kiss. Nuff said.

I would. I hate kisses in media.

Then close your eyes and shield your senses from the despicable act of kissing and pretend it doesn’t happen :P

CharrGirl.7896:

redslion.9675:

CharrGirl.7896:

None of ya’ll would be raging for this long if it was a hetero couple kiss. Nuff said.

I would. I hate kisses in media.

Then close your eyes and shield your senses from the despicable act of kissing and pretend it doesn’t happen :P

That’s exactly what I do.

In fact I wasn’t raging at this, I was only saying I find both annoying.

I’ve been away from GW2 for several months but started playing again because I thought “It’s the finale of season 1… I have to see what they do with it”. So after the battle against Scarlet I got into the instance with characters that I had no idea who were :P And then they spend AGES on character developing dialogue that I didn’t care about (It’s worth mentioning that I rarely play games for the story. Especially MMOs. I have never finished my personal story in GW2 and I usually skip all the cutscenes, unless they provide useful info on the task ahead.), so I wanted to skip the cutscenes, but I couldn’t. That surprised me. I have hardly ever been in a cutscene in GW2 that I couldn’t skip. And then when the last cutscene came, I COULD skip it, even though it was the ONLY cutscene in the instance that was important to the story line, its art style was gorgeous compared to any other cutscene ingame, and the revelation/cliff hanger in the end was what I was there for. It seemed like I was being forced to watch the dialogue. And since I haven’t really felt forced to watch any cutscene in the whole game (maybe it’s because I haven’t encountered many cutscenes? Maybe it’s perfectly normal? Feel free to tell me I’m wrong, ‘cause I would like to be wrong) I got the feeling that Anet really didn’t want me to miss out on the “outrageous kissing scene”.
And don’t give me the “You wouldn’t care if it was a heterosexual couple”, ‘cause yes, I would. I don’t care for other characters’ personal development, when my own character doesn’t really have a personality at all. I also thought that Rox and Braham was talking way too much for my taste. And I don’t know any of the characters well enough to be interested in their romantic relationships.
I searched the forums for information on these characters, because I was hoping that they didn’t just throw a random lesbian scene in for the hell of it. And it seems that they didn’t, which is awesome. I don’t care about the kiss and I wouldn’t care about anyone else’s kiss (I haven’t ever before seen a cutscene where the characters’ relations are so important, so I was thinking that it was odd that this lesbian couple was suddenly so important and in that light it seemed forced, BUT I haven’t seen most of the game’s cutscenes (I assume) so I could easily have missed a lot of other romantic scenes) – I just want to be able to skip those kitten ed cutscenes Especially when it apparently is going to take me 117 tries to get the “Nowhere To Hide” achievement…

And just to make it clear: I DO realize that character development and story is extremely important for many other players, so I’m not saying that the relationship shouldn’t be there. And I’m not saying that the kiss shouldn’t be there. But the fact that I couldn’t skip like usually and then could skip the very important ending, just confuses me. And above are just the thoughts that I had about it when I was in the instance :P

@Elskov You’re right, most cutscenes are skippable. I believe the reason that one wasn’t was because it was not, technically speaking, a cutscene. Someone with more knowledge of this kind of thing can feel free to correct me, but what I believe was going on was a scripted interaction with unique animations happening within the instance, just with an uncontrollable camera. You couldn’t skip it because that event was part of what was actually happening there, rather than a cutaway to something else, like the concept art bit at the end. It wasn’t because of the content, the character development or the kiss, but just the format that the devs chose to go with.

Aaron, that would make sense It still bugs me, though, since I will be going in for the achievement so many times xD

Seriously, some of you people need to grow up. All this outrage over a homosexual relationship, and a kiss, is totally uncalled for. Are we in the dark ages?
How dares a story in a game represent developed characters of the same sex that hold affection toward each other! Even worse, how dares one person kiss the other in relief after finding out they are not dead? Unbelievable I say! Gather the mob, prepare the dunking stool! (Yes, that was sarcasm if it didn’t register).

Also, a kiss = sex? Really? I am sorry but that is totally out of line. The kiss scene in question had no sexual innuendos whatsoever. No fondling, no tongue play, no nothing. It was a genuine kiss of relief. Anyone saying it was sexual in any way clearly has no idea of what a “sexual” kiss looks like.

If a kiss bothers you so much, please, by all means, stop watching television, reading books, browsing the internet, playing games, and even going out of your room. That way you are safe from that blasphemous act.

One more thing, what’s with all the Kasmeer whitewash? Why are some of you people trying to force your own views of how she should act based on whats a stereotype and what is not? We are all different, and some people do infact act like her. I know a person in real life who is extremely similar to her. There are many ways of being “strong”. To me, she comes across as a brave character that is trying her best to be the most she can be, while remaining faithful to who she is – and that is a truly admirable trait, one that most people in real life lack. By all means, debate her character on these boards, that’s what they are for – but trying to force your own views down everyone’s throats of how “females should act” or how “she should be” is simply bigotry on your parts. Be above the pettiness.

The simple fact that mods have not locked this hatefilled charade of homophobia is disturbing to say the least.

I find it seriously hard to believe the people claiming “Had I thought my lover dead and suddenly they woke, my first reaction would be to get them to safety.” I call bullkitten on that. The first thing you’re going to experience is Love and Relief, not Logic. Heck, even Rox and Braham weren’t scrambling for the exit at that time and neither of them were going through the same thing as Kasmeer.

the only problem I had with their kiss, was that it looked oddly animated.