Guild Wars 2

Intrigued by the living story currently, I decided to go through the Wiki and look at all past Scarlet-related events to see things we may not know, and looking at the Aetherpath for Twilight Arbor, it is very obvious Caithe has a -large- secret that we don’t know about, and that Caithe doesn’t want the world to know about either.

Dialogue from the dungeon:

-
Caithe: “I met Scarlet in the Grove, before she went on her academic pilgrimage. I was not overly impressed.”
Caithe: “Now she’s sent me a direct challenge. She claims to know things…things I wouldn’t want the world to know.” *
Caithe: "It doesn’t matter what she has on me, or thinks she has. I just want to find out how she’s acquiring these “secrets.”"
——
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “Ooh, is that Caithe sneaking around my facility? It must be—no one else could have gotten this far before being detected.”
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “You got my invitation! I was afraid you’d be all aloof and distant. You know, like you want people to think you are.”
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “But I know better. I know you. How nasty you fight, how you think…what you did. And what you did is soooo nasty.”
——
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “Ooh, and I just realized: I know something about you even Faolain doesn’t know.” *
Scarlet Briar Hologram: "Does that mean we’re dating? Should I start calling you “dearheart?”"
——
Scarlet Briar: “I’ll give the Nightmare Court your regards, Caithe. And won’t they love to hear about your little indiscretion?”
Scarlet Briar: “I knew you’d want to see the heart of my new facility, Caithe. So tell me: how do you like it?”
Scarlet Briar: “What do you think the Pale tree will say when she finds out what you did? Or does she already know?” *
——
Scarlet Briar: “I know a secret, I know a secret… Caithe’s secret, in fact. And soon, so will everybody else.”
Scarlet Briar: “Such lovely, juicy secrets, Caithe. It’s just not fair to keep them all to yourself.”
——
Scarlet Briar Hologram: “You found me? Good for you, Caithe! Not that it’ll do you any good. My secrets are still safe. Yours, however…”
-

On top of all that, it says this again on Caithe’s wiki page directly: "Caithe was invited to the Twilight Arbor by Scarlet Briar, who had struck up an alliance with the Nightmare Court. Scarlet claimed to have learned of some “nasty” indiscretion of Caithe’s that not even Faolain knew about, and threatened to reveal it to the world."

-
From the sounds of it, perhaps the Pale Tree may know as well (since her & Caithe are close), and she just might be keeping it from us too. Caithe may have delved too deep into something – being herself – and discovered a truth quite dire or life-changing. She may be keeping it from us for the better, or the worse. But I have a feeling it will be revealed soon seeing as we are probably going to speak to the Pale Tree herself (and may see Caithe) next LS update.

Does anyone have any ideas what this “secret” may be (based on -everything- else that is currently going on)? What is so important about it & how will it change things?

I don’t think there have been any clues since then. However a web story mentions Scarlet gaining some understanding of Pale Tree, Caithe, Faolin, and Malyck as part of her vision in Omadd’s machine. Caithe’s secret could just be Malyck, a Sylvari born from another tree, and Malyck could be introduced in the next update. This would lead the story in search of his tree beyond Dry Top. On the other hand the secret could be almost anything.

Malyck isn’t Caithe’s secret, but he may be related to it. Several people know about Malyck (the first Firstborn Trahearne, any player sylvari that chose that plot, Secondborn Amaranda and the Pale Tree, possibly anyone who Dreamed of Malyck seeing as several sylvari were exposed to him and their experience may have gone into the Dream?), not just Caithe. It’s not her secret to keep.

I agree, no mention of Caithe’s secret has been made since, although it might be related to the Spinal Blades Blueprint.

Backside reads: “Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”

The next release should start with a visit to the Pale Tree, although I doubt much of the discussion will be about Caithe. I wouldn’t be surprised if Caithe was there though.

From Scarlet’s dialogue we are led to believe Caithe’s secret:

• Is “nasty” in the words of Scarlet
• Would appeal to the Nightmare Court
• Is possibly a secret from even the Pale Tree and Faolain
• Is discoverable by Scarlet (assuming Scarlet wasn’t bluffing)
• Real and important enough that Caithe would risk invading an enemy base to find out what Scarlet knew and how she knew it. If she had no secret she wouldn’t have turned up.

So what secret would fit that criteria?

Considering she’s not fallen to Nightmare I suspect she has a reason for doing something nasty. Also considering how sylvari heavy the plost seems to be, maybe Caithe killed Malyck.

The existence of another sylvari mother tree is a wild card for the sylvari. Caithe might consider Malyck and his people to be dangerous – killing him keeps the Nightmare Court from discovering him or his people in the immediate future. No-one would know why because we all think he’s searching for his mother tree (it also explains why no word has returned from him or his people in almost two years). Maybe Caithe didn’t think she could trust him and took him out (possibly even the rest of his people) to eliminate the risk. I doubt she’d go as far as to exterminate an entire group of sylvari (for all we know Malyck may have been a Firstborn from a younger sylvari mother tree with only seven other sylvari children to kill) but I could believe it if she thought the threat of Nightmare was too real (Caithe is a little extreme when it comes to the Nightmare Court).

Niamh (the Luminary for the sylvari born in the Cycle of Noon) once stopped Cadeyrn from killing unhatched krait offpsring because she argued they deserved a chance to change their ways and ‘All things have a right to grow’. Perhaps Caithe no longer things this way when it comes to the Nightmare Court and the threat Malyck’s tree might pose if the Nightmare Court were to find out about them.

Caithe has grey morals (as far as GW2 goes). During the White Stag personal story she kills a Nightmare Court member at the objection of the PC. She’s also of the Cycle of Night, so it’s not unusual for them to have secrets (but “nasty” secrets might be another story).

I think this topic is worth looking at again as a refresher, with the Pale Tree popping up in a little under two week’s time, we might see more from this very soon. The other question to ask is how would Scarlet discover the secret?

A very nasty secret would be that she purposely opened the way for the branded to kill Snaff to save Kralkatorric.

Another nasty secret would be that there is no real difference between the sources of dream and nightmare.

Your first proposal fits the criteria but lacks a motive. Why would Caithe want Kralkatorric to live or Snaff and Glint to die? I find it easier to believe that Logan (the guardian and a big part of a small elite team) was too important to the success of that mission. His absence alone is easily believable to result in failure for the rest of the group.

The second proposal (the source of Dream and Nightmare) does not fit the criteria.

Scarlet Briar Hologram: “But I know better. I know you. How nasty you fight, how you think…what you did. And what you did is soooo nasty.”

Scarlet Briar: “What do you think the Pale tree will say when she finds out what you did? Or does she already know?”

Scarlet Briar: “I’ll give the Nightmare Court your regards, Caithe. And won’t they love to hear about your little indiscretion?”

It’s very explicit that Caithe’s secret is specifically about her. Something she did. It’s not just something she knows, it’s something she has done, something that reflects on her.

It seems obtuse/abstract to me, but I did consider the possibility that Caithe was the one on the Zephyrite ship that killed the Zephyrites (one of the deceased was inferred to be an elite guard, Aerin is dangerous but is a crazy former trader skilled enough to kill an elite guard?). To be clear I don’t think what happened to Aerin or Scarlet happened to Caithe, but I could believe Caithe was on the Zephyrite ship and may have killed people in order to protect a secret. I’m also a believer in Occam’s Razor when it comes to lore discussions (among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected) so while I consider it a very weak possibility, I don’t favour it. The most likely explanation for why an elite guard was on the ship is simply that the Master of Peace’s backpack/secret needed protection, not so the writers could imply someone more skilled than Aerin killed someone on the ship.

Shiren.9532:

but I could believe Caithe was on the Zephyrite ship and may have killed people in order to protect a secret.

That is further helped along with the description of stab wounds. Aerin never uses a blade that we see. Of course, blades are common, so it only really serves to demonstrate a likely second conflict aboard the Zephyrite ship.

We have no information about Caithe being on the ship. Trader Aerin talked about that the place (zephyrite ships) is not known to the dream before they started. It reduces the possibility that Caithe is there. The elite guard on the ship was the only one which showed traces of explosions while all other were killed by dagger and Aerin used exclusive explosives in the encounter.

My first guess is just a guess, but in the fight it was pretty obvious that Caithe didn’t hold the line for even just one second with her fighting skills. Further is she interested to form destiny’s edge from the beginning and she tries to get them together again and has a fine position, because there is no anger at her for suddenly sucking in her enormous fighting skills.

The second guess is, I try to find a reason that she stayed with the Pale Tree and doesn’t really deny the nightmare while knowing more. She knows more than Faolain and stays with the Pale Tree, because it doesn’t matter if you are nightmare or dream. You follow the same bigger objective (and the bad guys help to get/keep the good guys in line).

Scarlet and Aerin both got released from the dream and saw/heared a problem that we just cannot reenact.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

We have no information about Caithe being on the ship.

That doesn’t bother me. If Caithe was on the ship and wanted that to remain secret you wouldn’t know she was there. She’s a thief, stealth is her thing. My issue with her being on the ship is primarily that I have no reason to believe she was there aside from thinking up secrets she might have related to the story currently going on.

Trader Aerin talked about that the place (zephyrite ships) is not known to the dream before they started. It reduces the possibility that Caithe is there.

To be clear, the Zephyrites and their sanctum was unknown to the sylvari when the Zephyrites first visited last year. Obviously sylvari knew about the ship and had boarded the sanctum since then (by the time the Zephyrites returned) because, if nothing else, the players did last year. There was also a sylvari NPC called a Zephyrite on the ship when it returned this time. I don’t remember if it was there last time or if he joined the same visit Aerin joined but he was there.

Maybe something about Snaff’s death or perhaps even Glint’s death. Maybe the Pale Tree told Caithe that if they tried they would die but she just brushed it off.

The Caithe on the Zeph. ship is a good hypothesis, but the new Twilight Arbor path had been released quite a while before the Zephyrite crash. And Scarlet seems to be talking in past tense when she tells Caithe she knows what she “did”. Doesn’t this pose an issue?

Also Shiren your first idea about her possibly killing Malyck is actually a really good theory, never thought of that!

On the part of wanting to kill Snaff or Glint, I don’t think she did that. I agree with Shiren that I don’t really see a motive. Besides, she is the only one that wanted the team to get back together in the game, and she stuck to it. She may have acted a bit careless (? can’t find the right word, she didn’t give much thought to what had just happened) at the end of the book after what happened to Snaff, saying they need to keep going, but that is just who she generally is. On point, resilient and driven. Cappi’s point would be the only one I could see happening with this aspect of the story.

Honestly I think her secret is either about Malyck, or something related to the Nightmare Court.

Caithe’s secret is that she is actually Queen Jennah. Logan’s been… barking up the wrong tree all along! X_X

I think Caithe might have become soudless per request of the pale tree so that the pale tree can have a little knight that can do all the secret things that pale tree sees that “need” to be done, but dont want the other sylvari to find out through the dream. (or, she just doesnt reveal any of that to anyone in the dream, ‘if she can control it like that’)

I have a feeling that her secret is that she killed Malyk when he left to go find his tree.
Think about it.
Malyk is not in the grove, or anywhere in game, which makes sense because in the personal story when you last see him, he says he is leaving to find where he came from.

But now that we have gone west, what do we find? an entire town that has only seen 1 sylvari before, Scarlet, and then we also find an entire tribe of Centaurs who don’t even know what sylvari are, let alone have seen one before (as a sylvari character, the chieftain of the centaurs asks you if you’re a nature spirit, and you have to explain to him what the sylvari are)
I don’t think Malyk ever made it out that far west, I think Caithe snuffed him out per request of the pale tree because of fear of what they might find.
Scarlet could have found out because i think around this time she was working out of her base in prosperity.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Caithe: "It doesn’t matter what she has on me, or thinks she has. I just want to find out how she’s acquiring these “secrets.”"

Caithe seems to underestimate what Scarlet knows, or thinks she knows. This seems to imply that Caithe considers her real secret safe, and beyond knowing for anyone.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar Hologram: “You got my invitation! I was afraid you’d be all aloof and distant. You know, like you want people to think you are.”

This implies that Scarlet thinks Caithe is just putting up an act. But is it true? Is the real Caithe far more devious and clever?

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar Hologram: “But I know better. I know you. How nasty you fight, how you think…what you did. And what you did is soooo nasty.”

This implies that Caithe used a nasty or foul tactic. Something that most ordinary Sylvari would find quite reprehensible.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar Hologram: “Ooh, and I just realized: I know something about you even Faolain doesn’t know.” *

It’s interesting that this secret is apparently so intimate, that not even Faolain could know it.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar: “I’ll give the Nightmare Court your regards, Caithe. And won’t they love to hear about your little indiscretion?”

Apparently the Nightmare Court would approve of what she did, or find it very entertaining. This implies that perhaps she committed an act of severe cruelty.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar: “What do you think the Pale tree will say when she finds out what you did? Or does she already know?” *

How would the Pale Tree know, or not-know her secret?
But perhaps most interesting, is that Caithe seems just as surprised that Scarlet would know her secret. Which begs the question how she found out. Did she learn it from Mordremoth? Or did she see it in the machine, or in her nightmares?

It is possible that perhaps Caithe knew that Snaff would die, long before he actually did. It could also be that she is some how directly responsible for his death, or someone else’s death.

Okay, I’m kind of loving the ‘Caithe killed Malyck’ theory. It makes a scary amount of sense. We know she’s willing to kill a defenseless person if she considers them a threat, and we know that she could consider Malyck a threat. After all, if Malyck found his people, he would probably set up a diplomatic relationship with our Pale Tree, revealing his existence to the Nightmare Court. And Caithe’s entire goal in that Personal Story step was keeping the existence of a second Pale Tree a secret. Caithe summed up the reason well:

“If the Nightmare Court finds out, they won’t have to worry about the future of the sylvari. They can burn down the Pale Tree and… start over.”

Chills.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Scarlet Briar Hologram: “But I know better. I know you. How nasty you fight, how you think…what you did. And what you did is soooo nasty.”

This line… I just can’t read them with a straight face. xD

“Your dirty-dirty girl!”

I don’t really buy the Malyck theory. If Caithe was going to off him to prevent his secret from getting out, why wouldn’t she have done it then and there? It was already pointed out that she doesn’t have any qualms in kill taking care of business in front of the PC. So then why the facade in letting him go? His reason for leaving was not only to get away from the Nightmare Court and keep them from discovering his secret, but also to discover if there is another tree with another sylvari culture. If so, he’d bring their aid to the dreamers and help fight the dragons. So she helps this guy, sets this all up, then changes her mind and shanks him while he’s climbing over a vine? I don’t buy it.

I get the feeling that it’s something in her past, something older than the point in time where the game starts. Scarlet was already a cuckoo clock by that point, so it’s doubtful she had much contact with Caithe while devising her mad schemes. The part about even Faolain not knowing, and just realizing that fact, implies that one would assume Faolain knows this information. Presumedly because of the time Caithe and Faolain spent together and knowing they were lovers, which was about 20 years ago when the race first woke. Once you break up, you stop getting details about every little thing your ex is doing. (Though to be fair, Faolain was a stalker for some time after…)

Yeah, I’m not seeing it. I get that she’s a stern and callous character who will do whatever is necessary. She doesn’t strike me someone who would jump to that extreme to protect a secret. Given how dedicated she was to Destiny’s Edge, reforming it, she’s not stupid enough to jump to such a drastic measure like that. So I think it has to do with something else that has taken place.

Vesuvius.9874:

Caithe’s secret is that she is actually Queen Jennah. Logan’s been… barking up the wrong tree all along! X_X

that made me laugh so hard i cried a little

OK here are a few of my theories:
I don’t believe that Caithe’s secret is attacking the the zephyr ship it just does not work in the time line however I do think that she may be tied to them. I think a few theories are possible contenders for the “secret.” Scarlet could have possibly known of glints child and be hiding it from the world to protect it even though its the child of a dragon that fought with the heroes it is still a dragon and there are a lot of people that hate dragons right now she could very well be protecting it and keeping it moving place to place via the zephers would be a good plan. the only thing that holds this theory back is that this is something that Faolain was supposed to not even know which (in my mind) suggests that that means this “secret” occurred back when they were still together.

Another thought is that Caithe could be murdering the soundless while I think the Malyck theory is working along the same path of thought I think its the wrong group thats being kiled. if Caithe does know how good ol Mordy affects the soundless she could be murdering soundless that she suspects of corruption as a countermeasure we all know she is ruthless to her enemies and wont hesitate to kill those that threaten the grove if she can kill the nightmare court she can kill possible “future Scarlets.” Again this suffers from the Faolain timeline problem as well as the fact till up to now the writing in GW2 is rather campy and while they don’t shy away from death and murder certainly turning one of the original DE heroes into a mass murderer does seem a little dark and extreme for them.

My last and least likely theory is that somehow Caithe has made contact with our thorny friend and and has turned traitor. Of this I have no proof the only clue is the knife wounds found on the guards at the crash site, maybe Caithe was helping whats-his-face escape and catch up to the master. Like I said I find this HIGHLY unlikely as Anet loves to leave clues about future events and this one has too few clues to be considered possible.

From what I learned, Scarlet is insane, so her ramblings may mean nothing.

Just going to throw this out there and maybe Caithe has encountered Mordremoth before we “knew” of his existence. It could also be that during Caithe’s encounter with Mordremoth she became his champion (whether voluntarily or otherwise [if it was voluntary it would make sense as to why it would be “nasty”]). It could be something that Scarlet saw in Omadd’s machine as we are not sure if what we saw and she saw are the same thing. Then, perhaps, the Pale Tree is actually unaware of it.

I don’t know if that is something worth discussing or not but figured I would toss it out there.

Fuiltech.6438:

Just going to throw this out there and maybe Caithe has encountered Mordremoth before we “knew” of his existence. It could also be that during Caithe’s encounter with Mordremoth she became his champion (whether voluntarily or otherwise [if it was voluntary it would make sense as to why it would be “nasty”]). It could be something that Scarlet saw in Omadd’s machine as we are not sure if what we saw and she saw are the same thing. Then, perhaps, the Pale Tree is actually unaware of it.

I don’t know if that is something worth discussing or not but figured I would toss it out there.

everything scarlet saw in the machine is detailed in one of the blogs Anet posted about half a year ago, if not more.
She didnt see caithe becoming mordy’s champ, plus that would be silly considering Scarlet herself was a pawn of mordy in the first place.

Spoilers for The Dragons Reach Pt. 2 below!

I think I should bring back this thread in regards to what happened at the Summit meeting instance.

At the beginning, you see and can talk to Caithe after her very long & quiet absence.

After the meeting gets sabotaged by Mordremoth… She is absolutely nowhere to be seen. Which is odd considering she is probably one of the most loyal sylvari to her mother (as far as we know).

Later when you talk to Trahearne, he suggests the possibility that someone may have ‘lured’ the dragon to the meeting, because it was just so well timed. Could this have been her secret..? Or a small part of what’s to come?

Thoughts?

Been thinking since the first time I played that that Caithe went off and killed Malyck. I hope she didn’t, I’m pretty fond of him, and sylvari keep dropping like flies.

Johnny Boi.4980:

Spoilers for The Dragons Reach Pt. 2 below!

---

I think I should bring back this thread in regards to what happened at the Summit meeting instance.

At the beginning, you see and can talk to Caithe after her very long & quiet absence.

After the meeting gets sabotaged by Mordremoth… She is absolutely nowhere to be seen. Which is odd considering she is probably one of the most loyal sylvari to her mother (as far as we know).

Later when you talk to Trahearne, he suggests the possibility that someone may have ‘lured’ the dragon to the meeting, because it was just so well timed. Could this have been her secret..? Or a small part of what’s to come?

Thoughts?

She was nowhere to be seen because you killed the Modrem she was attacking first, so she left. If you left her Modrem alive and dealt with the ones attacking the other npcs, she would have been there till the very end.

At the end of Edge of Destiny, Caithe is gathering the shards of crystal blood of Glint and Kralkatorrik. I think it’s an interesting note that hasn’t been mentioned.

Anyway, I think Caithe’s secret is that she found, together with Faolain, something about Mordremoth. Faolain fled to nightmare for safety, and Caithe to the dream and the Pale Tree. The Nightmare Court doesn’t trust the Pale Tree as the defense against Mordremoth because, should it fall, they would be unprotected, so they turn into nightmare (which isn’t Mordremoth-related). Only the Soundless are weak to Mordremoth.

Whatever it is, I’m sure it’s related to Mordremoth and Caithe’s travels.

How about another view of this. We were told that Scarlet was able to find out secrets, specifically Caithe’s secret but others as well, and it was never revealed how. Caithe tried to find out but seemingly got nowhere. We now get another secret, this leader’s summit, that was known by Mordemoth (I think it was too big a secret to hide but if the story says it is important then it is going to be important).

Perhaps there is a method of finding information that is unique to Mordremoth and he shared that with Scarlet. I like the idea of Mordemoth having cute little flowers everywhere that are all eavesdropping for him, but it could be more elaborate such as sensing along ley lines or delving for knowledge within the dream.

Xyvol.1265:

I don’t really buy the Malyck theory. If Caithe was going to off him to prevent his secret from getting out, why wouldn’t she have done it then and there? It was already pointed out that she doesn’t have any qualms in kill taking care of business in front of the PC. So then why the facade in letting him go? His reason for leaving was not only to get away from the Nightmare Court and keep them from discovering his secret, but also to discover if there is another tree with another sylvari culture. If so, he’d bring their aid to the dreamers and help fight the dragons. So she helps this guy, sets this all up, then changes her mind and shanks him while he’s climbing over a vine? I don’t buy it.

I get the feeling that it’s something in her past, something older than the point in time where the game starts. Scarlet was already a cuckoo clock by that point, so it’s doubtful she had much contact with Caithe while devising her mad schemes. The part about even Faolain not knowing, and just realizing that fact, implies that one would assume Faolain knows this information. Presumedly because of the time Caithe and Faolain spent together and knowing they were lovers, which was about 20 years ago when the race first woke. Once you break up, you stop getting details about every little thing your ex is doing. (Though to be fair, Faolain was a stalker for some time after…)

Maybe Caithe’s secret is her fanfiction account where she wrote all the CaithexFaolain fanfics to satisfy her longing.

Caithe’s secret?

I’m going to go with Murphy’s Oil Soap for that polished wood look. Also because things just seem to keep going wrong around her.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Living-World-S2E6-Tangled-Paths-SPOILERS/first#post4573681 In my post here I talk about what I think her secret is, didn’t feel like copy pasting the postXD

if caith is “under the influince”
perhaps its in a similar way to scarlet/searra in that at first it seemed like she had “epsiodes” when she changed to scarlet then it gradually became worse
what if caiths been trying to fight of the mental corruption

well its only one line, but its showing Caithe.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/535477616426643456

I think she wants to harness power of this dragon

skullmount.1758:

well its only one line, but its showing Caithe.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/535477616426643456

Something missing… ah. There we go.

She’s clearly trying to do something she thinks is good (I don’t think she would have said “no time to explain” if she was just evil, and I don’t think that Arenanet’s writers are going to make any of their main NPC heroes a bad guy).
What if she wants to use the egg to, somehow, fight the Nightmare, but in a non violent way for once ? For a Dreamer, I think Nightmare Courtiers could be seen as suffering : they’re corrupted by the Nightmare, and that’s why they turn evil. What if she found a way to cure it, somehow ?
I don’t see which pain could it be, if it isn’t about the NC.
Plus… there’s Nightmare chests in the Silverwastes, now, I doubt Arenanet named them that way for no reason.

PetboyJoshua.3108:

I don’t see which pain could it be, if it isn’t about the NC.

The Pale Tree is still in recovery, so there’s that.

Otherwise, maybe the egg is in pain? Or it inflicts pain on those that carry it? Or she suspects the PC is corrupted and Mordremoth would torment them mentally into bringing it the egg?

Or something related to the Nightmare court, of course.

A thought that popped into my head with the possibility of the egg being in pain- it’s been a point of speculation for a while around here whether Glint’s offspring would be minions of Kralkatorrik or not. What if it’s not an either/or sort of thing? What if there’s some sort of internal conflict, corrupted nature versus magical ‘nurture’? It’s a bit out there, and it seems unlikely given it’s a complication that wouldn’t add to the story… but then again, the last year we’ve been hearing a lot about the mental nature of dragon corruption and the presumed struggle of Ceara and possiblye Aerin against it…

Before her death, Glint had a vision foretelling her demise at the hands/claws of her previous master, but she also saw a possibility for her rising again. So, before Kralk’s arrival at her lair, she sought out Caithe’s help and compatible mind to implant her katra in, and thus the secrets begin…

While the Master of Peace and the Zephyrites had the best intention for the egg, best intentions is not what Tyria is in need of in the battle against the Elder Dragons. Sacrificing must be made for all of us to survive..

j/k. If only though right?

It’s possible (probable?) that the vision our character has received from the Pale tree is in fact a Wyld hunt. One that Caithe might have received too, or at least knows about it.

I know this makes more sense with your character being a Sylvari, but it could work for every race as we were undeniably linked to Caithe first Wyld hunt. She might just have a better understanding of the vision and want to guard us from some sort of painful situation that will occur.

At the very least, I’m really doubtful that she is corrupted by Mordremoth.

From the teaser image from todays POI it looks like Caithe might be (still?) working with Faolin. I don’t really remember what Faolin looked like, but it might be her on the right.
i.imgur.com/Wmnj26Q.jpg

My theory is this:
- Caithe killed malyck as he was looking for his tree
- Caithe found the second tree
- Caithe made contact with the second tree and is now working on his/her (not sure of tree’s gender) behalf
- Either that tree wanted the egg, or Caithe believed it would somehow benefit the tree so she stole it.

What if Caithe’s secret is that she found out that the nightmare is indeed Modremoth’s corruption and the reason Caithe stole the egg was to study it to find out how the Forgotton cleansed Glint’s corruption so she can cleanse Faolin’s corruption?

skullmount.1758:

From the teaser image from todays POI it looks like Caithe might be (still?) working with Faolin. I don’t really remember what Faolin looked like, but it might be her on the right.
i.imgur.com/Wmnj26Q.jpg

As I pointed out in the other thread, I don’t think this is a modern version of Caithe and Faolain. It might be a past image of them.

• The right sylvari matches Faolain’s appearance, but the cloths differ (though similar/same color scheme).
• The left sylvari has Caithe’s color scheme, and weapons, but different armor and hair.
• They’re inside the Inner Inquest Complex in Metrica Province (that square structure in the center is rather unique and is continuously used as a prison in both PS and open world), but seem to be confronting a non-Inquest asura and golem (no Inquest uses that model for the asura, and the golem is not the standard black/red); so it’s possible to be pre-Inquest-occupation (if such ever was).
• Caithe in the past didn’t have reed stalkings by description (none in EoD, though the novel was pre-redesign), so unless she lost them it is more likely she gained them via the typical sylvari “emotional state alters appearance” rule that Canach and Ceara underwent.

But the issue I see is that Faolain’s appearance doesn’t match EoD’s description – which was basically a dark verion of Caithe; where her skin was light green, Faolain’s was darker and more barklike (as it is now); where Caithe’s hair, eyes, and fingernails were white/whitish, Faolain’s were black/blackish; but otherwise they were very similar in appearance. This always threw me off with her in-game appearance, but I knocked it off to Faolain’s appearance altering from the Nightmare and the poison she withdrew from Caithe during EoD, which made her arm rot a little. And the emotional distressed caused by being dejected in favor of her friends and fighting the dragons could easily alter her appearance.

I’m hoping for witnessing first interactions between sylvari and asura, and this somehow ties into why Caithe stole the egg (finally bringing in the “sylvari are untrusting of asura” concept that was established as pre-release lore but never seen in-game akin to most of the supposed hate between humans and charr, perhaps? And tying this into why Caithe stole the egg – to keep it from asuran knowledge, as they would oh so desireably want to experiment on it, even non-Inquest (and the Inquest would want to no doubt control it)).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

A thought that popped into my head with the possibility of the egg being in pain- it’s been a point of speculation for a while around here whether Glint’s offspring would be minions of Kralkatorrik or not. What if it’s not an either/or sort of thing? What if there’s some sort of internal conflict, corrupted nature versus magical ‘nurture’? It’s a bit out there, and it seems unlikely given it’s a complication that wouldn’t add to the story… but then again, the last year we’ve been hearing a lot about the mental nature of dragon corruption and the presumed struggle of Ceara and possiblye Aerin against it…

If those nightmare pods mean anything I’m guessing they mean that the egg is having nightmares. We’ve nothing to suggest the pods come from Mordremoth itself and they won’t have come from the Master of Peace, or Caithe, or anyone else. If that’s the case then it suggests this baby dragon could have a connection to the dream. It also opens up the possibility that Mordremoth can mentally ‘corrupt’ other dragons and that opens up possibilities about what the Shadow of the Dragon might once have been.

I wouldn’t be so sure the Nightmare Pods don’t come from Mordy. Those chests are very leafy, and the Mordrem Lurcher in the story instance version of the maze has the lime green glow that matches the glow of the Toxic Alliance – further hinting at a tie to Mordremoth and the Tower of Nightmares; and from the Tower of Nightmares, to the Nightmare of the Dream (which the Shadow of the Dragon also ties to very directly, being (one of many?) source(s) of the Nightmare).

Mordremoth seems to tie into nightmare somehow but I don’t think it as simple as creating it when he likes. There also doesn’t seem any reason to grow nightmare creatures that have some protection through the dream when Mordy can create plenty of mordrem he can directly control.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Complex":http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inner_Inquest_Complex in Metrica Province (that square structure in the center is rather unique and is continuously used as a prison in both PS and open world), but seem to be confronting a non-Inquest asura and golem (no Inquest uses that model for the asura, and the golem is not the standard black/red); so it’s possible to be pre-Inquest-occupation (if such ever was).

Is it possible that there is where the Asura made experiments on Malomedies? Maybe Caithe made some deal with the Asuras and that is why they didn’t seek revenge for the experiments which eventually lead Cadeyrn to found the Nightmare Court.

@Stooperdale: The Nightmare doesn’t create, but twists things tied to the Dream (and not) – always plants (the Nightmare Court do use spiders and jaguars and wurms, but this is more akin to abusive teaching).

Nothing says that those twisted by the Nightmare have protection from the Elder Dragons, in all honesty. We’ve never encountered any NC in Season 2 yet, or interacting with dragon minions – close we know is that they still view (non-Mordrem at least) dragon minions and the Elder Dragons as enemies still.

@Underdark: If that’s of the past, then yes, possibly.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

(the Nightmare Court do use spiders and jaguars and wurms, but this is more akin to abusive teaching).

Depends on how seriously you want to take the skin difference between Nightmare spiders and all the other spiders in the region, and the spider tamer’s comment that “once turned, even I can’t restore a spider.” Not much to go on, but a case can be made that there’s more than animal cruelty happening there.

While the common Nightmare Spiders are leaf-looking (using the Forest Spider skin), in Twilight Arbor we see all kinds of spiders which are very much not leaf-looking and very much animal (including among them the cave spider model and the black widow spider). Same goes for the jaguars. Wurms are questionable due to their very planty-appearance and being called Nightmare Vines in certain places, but the spiders and jaguars do not share this.