Guild Wars 2

Dear ANet:

What word from Cantha? Survivors make their way to Ascalon and Kryta. What word?

What exactly do you mean with “what word”?

If you mean if we will go there, apparently not soon as for what I know the publisher prefers to get rid of it for now (something about not wanting asian typical representations or stereotypes, not sure of the details), I think it was even the reason behind the Canthan District in Divinity’s Reach being replaced by a big giant hole.

Lokheit.7943:

What exactly do you mean with “what word”?

If you mean if we will go there, apparently not soon as for what I know the publisher prefers to get rid of it for now (something about not wanting asian typical representations or stereotypes, not sure of the details), I think it was even the reason behind the Canthan District in Divinity’s Reach being replaced by a big giant hole.

For the question, other than a few (half?)dead sailors, we have no information on Cantha.

And I cringe every time someone bring up that “Ridding of Cantha” topic. No publisher is ever going to write off a huge portion of their game like that. There is a big difference between “not wanting Asian stereotypes and representations” and outright banning Cantha, because they are afraid of the former. The different being good writing.

The probably didn’t want to bring Cantha in right from the beginning, for the same reasons they didn’t bring in Elona. It doesn’t make sense lore wise, and like any MMO; they want to stretch their production, story, and expansions over years.

As for the Great Collapse, it gave them an excuse to redo that area again (possibly transferring that style over to a future Canthan expansion as well), and they can give possibly foreshadowing into Cantha too. In-game reasons for the collapse are said to be “hasty construction”. Kaineng City suffers from something similar.

After the Jade Wind, the city had to expand basically overnight to take in the refugees. It expanded so much, it takes up a very good portion of Cantha itself. After awhile, I can see portions of that city falling into disrepair and possibly collapsing like the district did. It seemed to be starting already judging by some of the areas in Factions.

Now add a couple of centuries of that, possibly angry assimilated Luxons and Kurzicks, a nation of xenophobia, the Ministry of Purity, some political intrigue by way of the Emperor, and a dash of Elder Dragons, you can get a really good expansion.

Plus, we could possibly see some Ministry of Purity vs. Elder Dragon and their corruption.

Quikmix.2518:

Dear ANet:

What word from Cantha? Survivors make their way to Ascalon and Kryta. What word?

Survivors making their way to Ascalon and Kryta? When? Where?

Erukk.1408:

Lokheit.7943:

What exactly do you mean with “what word”?

If you mean if we will go there, apparently not soon as for what I know the publisher prefers to get rid of it for now (something about not wanting asian typical representations or stereotypes, not sure of the details), I think it was even the reason behind the Canthan District in Divinity’s Reach being replaced by a big giant hole.

For the question, other than a few (half?)dead sailors, we have no information on Cantha.

And I cringe every time someone bring up that “Ridding of Cantha” topic. No publisher is ever going to write off a huge portion of their game like that. There is a big difference between “not wanting Asian stereotypes and representations” and outright banning Cantha, because they are afraid of the former. The different being good writing.

The probably didn’t want to bring Cantha in right from the beginning, for the same reasons they didn’t bring in Elona. It doesn’t make sense lore wise, and like any MMO; they want to stretch their production, story, and expansions over years.

As for the Great Collapse, it gave them an excuse to redo that area again (possibly transferring that style over to a future Canthan expansion as well), and they can give possibly foreshadowing into Cantha too. In-game reasons for the collapse are said to be “hasty construction”. Kaineng City suffers from something similar.

After the Jade Wind, the city had to expand basically overnight to take in the refugees. It expanded so much, it takes up a very good portion of Cantha itself. After awhile, I can see portions of that city falling into disrepair and possibly collapsing like the district did. It seemed to be starting already judging by some of the areas in Factions.

Now add a couple of centuries of that, possibly angry assimilated Luxons and Kurzicks, a nation of xenophobia, the Ministry of Purity, some political intrigue by way of the Emperor, and a dash of Elder Dragons, you can get a really good expansion.

Plus, we could possibly see some Ministry of Purity vs. Elder Dragon and their corruption.

I was just reading about this in the wiki. It’s a shame they had to scrap the Canthan district and repace it with a big hole.

Lokheit.7943:

What exactly do you mean with “what word”?

If you mean if we will go there, apparently not soon as for what I know the publisher prefers to get rid of it for now (something about not wanting asian typical representations or stereotypes, not sure of the details), I think it was even the reason behind the Canthan District in Divinity’s Reach being replaced by a big giant hole.

Nothing was ever said about Cantha. Just the Canthan District – and the reason was that it got too much negative feedback from the asian markets. It’s not the publishers wanting to get rid of it – it’s them wanting to ensure it’s not viewed negatively.

As Erukk said, the Great Collapse gave them time to redesign it. I’m expecting the Great Collapse to be “repaired” in the foreseeable future as probably Togo District or some such (it’s hard to imagine memorable leaders in Canthan history, since 90% of those we know are only mentioned in An Empire Divided – and of those we see mentioned in game, it’s just Angsiyan who was killed by Shiro, Kisu, and Usoku – Kisu became a lamo after Togo’s death and Usoku is hated by every Canthan who went to Tyria, while Angsiyan… good luck with that as a district name lol).

Erukk.1408:

After the Jade Wind, the city had to expand basically overnight to take in the refugees. It expanded so much, it takes up a very good portion of Cantha itself. After awhile, I can see portions of that city falling into disrepair and possibly collapsing like the district did. It seemed to be starting already judging by some of the areas in Factions.

Now add a couple of centuries of that, possibly angry assimilated Luxons and Kurzicks, a nation of xenophobia, the Ministry of Purity, some political intrigue by way of the Emperor, and a dash of Elder Dragons, you can get a really good expansion.

Plus, we could possibly see some Ministry of Purity vs. Elder Dragon and their corruption.

Kaineng City was having construction issues well before Factions. It’s background lore that the city was basically a series of shacks built upon shacks when it was greatly expanded – and now the lower shacks are being crushed. Outside Kaineng Center there’s a part where a whole plaza is tilting over – that’s such a situation – and the slums exist because of this. And the typical response of the Celestial Ministry is “just build MORE houses on top!” (brilliant, right?). They even had a small ministry (probably part of the Ministry of Earth, as housing was in their department iirc), which focused on structural integrity – you can guess how efficient they are with their job.

As for Elder Dragons in Cantha – no please. Unless it’s singular, we got enough Elder Dragons. The only Elder Dragon I can see dealing with Cantha will be some unknown seventh dragon related to Kuunavang. Even the deep sea dragon unlikely has much influence on them, given how it’s in the deepest portions of the ocean where the krait once lived (or that’s where it woke at least – and its only recently that the karka are moving out, and they’re also from the ocean depths so its likely still down there) – and we never heard of Krait between travels of Tyria and Cantha (so it’s likely northeast of Cantha/southeast of Tyria/Elona, or northwest/southwest respectively).

And I would expect, unless the emperor succeeding Usoku revokes his actions like most historical Canthan emperors do (it seems to be a trend in Canthan history for emperors to revoke their father’s actions as emperor), that the Celestial Ministry will be removed and replaced with the Ministry of Purity – which would thus simply be called “the Ministry”. That’s my hope at least, since I’m tired of dealing with the uselessly corrupt Celestial Ministry that prevents anything from being done except filling their own coffers.

Gandarel.5091:

Survivors making their way to Ascalon and Kryta? When? Where?

Ascalon, no; Kryta – after Usoku exiled folks.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Gandarel.5091:

Survivors making their way to Ascalon and Kryta? When? Where?

Ascalon, no; Kryta – after Usoku exiled folks.

I know, but the one who asked stated that, and also that they are arriving atm roo.

@Konig
However, Ebonhawke has some Canthan meals.

A dev did tell that How many of them wanted to recreate Cantha, they just weren’t allowed to make it by NCSoft West

Gandarel.5091:

I know, but the one who asked stated that, and also that they are arriving atm roo.

Gandarel.5091:

However, Ebonhawke has some Canthan meals.

The OP’s wording’s weird, if you couldn’t tell. And those meals are explicitly stated to be imported – and only so thanks to the cease-fire allowing a better trade. It’s also why they have Krytan, norn, and Elonian meals.

wouw.5837:

A dev did tell that How many of them wanted to recreate Cantha, they just weren’t allowed to make it by NCSoft West

Source please, because I’ve seen no dev mention on Cantha other than a statement of how one particular dev (forgot who though) wish they could have GW2’s engine for Factions, as that would have made the maze city of Kaineng much more friendlier.

Saogai.9105:

Hi guys, I am new to GW2. I would like to say that its been awesome and I really enjoyed exploring the game. I used to play some GW1 way back and remembered Cantha and would be interested in seeing it again. I say this as an ethnic Chinese person (who is not born in China however). I think the reason that the Chinese and Korean market had a bad reception to the Cantha district in Divinity Reach wasn’t that they mixed Chinese and Korean architecture as seem to be understood in this forum. (The fact is Korean architecture is heavily influenced by China’s thousand of years imperial domination. – I say this without being chauvinistic, just as Western architecture is very much derived/ influenced from its Greco-Roman root through the Roman Empire.) Even a Chinese person would have difficulty in telling that a temple complex is Korean based on first glance. In addition having travel somewhat extensively in China, there are variations and distinctive differences in architecture in different regions of China. (For example, northern Chinese architecture is often more grand in scope, while the south is often more ornate, in addition to many localized styles in different region. You will even see a blend of Chinese and Tibetan architecture in the far west or in Beijing due to a history of conquest/ cultural exchange.

The problem with the negative reaction with the Cantha district was the fact that the original area appears as an East Asian “ghetto” towered over by Europeans walls and castle spires. The perceived problem was that the original district was a mix of European and East Asian architecture that did not fit the overall European theme. Not only is there a clash of style, there is an uncomfortable subtle real world implications that the Asians are being dominated by Europeans. (Regardless of actual in game lore.) This will make many first time players from Asia feel negative about its presence. (But would be perfectly fine to have Cantha as an expansion, since its in a different area altogether.)

As such I certainly hope that the removal of Canthan elements from Divinity Reach/ Tyria was only a local one specific to Divinity’s Reach, and certainly hope to be in Cantha in the future GW2 expansion!

This quote right here best sums everything up. I think it makes a lot of since. This is why I believe Cantha will return, but it will be the second or third expansion before it does.

wouw.5837 I have never seen that quote from a dev either. I have been following the Cantha threads and that has never came up. The only thing that has been said is they had to get rid of the Canthan District in DR, which makes since once you read the quote above.

I just say it’s a shame that we’ll have to wait that much. Cantha has so much potential, both aesthetically and plot wise. I loved my asian chars, they had personality.

I wonder why we don’t know anything about Cantha in it’s current state. The Order of Whispers is known to travel there still, yet they never talk about it.

Because there are many threats to Tyria that are much more dire, lol. Palawa Joko could invade should the threat of Elder Dragons are removed, but an isolationist country is very unlikely to provide a threat to Tyria should the DSD be removed. This is most likely why we’ve heard of Joko but not necessarily who the current Emperor is (Usoku was after Kisu, but I doubt he’s ruled over 200 years, lol).

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I wonder why we don’t know anything about Cantha in it’s current state. The Order of Whispers is known to travel there still, yet they never talk about it.

The Order got a route to Elona. Not Cantha..

Narcemus.1348:

Because there are many threats to Tyria that are much more dire, lol. Palawa Joko could invade should the threat of Elder Dragons are removed, but an isolationist country is very unlikely to provide a threat to Tyria should the DSD be removed. This is most likely why we’ve heard of Joko but not necessarily who the current Emperor is (Usoku was after Kisu, but I doubt he’s ruled over 200 years, lol).

Since when is Cantha a threat not and ally?

And a very strong ally.

Since it became racist. They would be allies to humanity only, and that is just a possibility. Remember that Cantha’s first attacks weren’t against the other races, but against factions of humanity that didn’t line up with their point of view (see Luxons, Kurzicks, Am Fah, and Jade Brotherhood). If they went into conquest mode (highly unlikely) they would definitely be a threat to all of Tyria, and if they didn’t go into conquest mode, they would be unlikely to ally with any race other than humanity (and they would most likely see humanity as tainted because of their alliances with other races).

Narcemus.1348:

Since it became racist. They would be allies to humanity only, and that is just a possibility. Remember that Cantha’s first attacks weren’t against the other races, but against factions of humanity that didn’t line up with their point of view (see Luxons, Kurzicks, Am Fah, and Jade Brotherhood). If they went into conquest mode (highly unlikely) they would definitely be a threat to all of Tyria, and if they didn’t go into conquest mode, they would be unlikely to ally with any race other than humanity (and they would most likely see humanity as tainted because of their alliances with other races).

The isolation happened 200 years ago, maybe after that emperor’s death they wouldn’t do that again. 250 years ago the most advanced technology in war was black powder not Gigamegalasers. Many things have changed.

Sorry for the late response, but A artist said Cantha will never release, still looking were I heard it, tho

EDIT: giving up on looking for it, @ Konig, idd It is weird, but if the boss says no you can’t do it, than they have to listen.

Don’t forget the Panda! it was planned to realease with Factions as a pet, but the Chinese were against it. The pet was only released in 2012, 6 years later!

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I wonder why we don’t know anything about Cantha in it’s current state. The Order of Whispers is known to travel there still, yet they never talk about it.

You’re thinking of Elona. The Order of Whispers is known to travel to Elona.

They’re suspected of traveling elsewhere – possibly Cantha included (I think it’d be weird if they didn’t know the happenings of Cantha, TBH).

But we don’t hear anything about it because it’s not part of the plot – or either the personal story or the world story.

Gandarel.5091:

Since when is Cantha a threat not and ally?

And a very strong ally.

Since the Ministry of Purity’s influence took hold in 1079/80 AE, Cantha has become increasingly xenophobic. In late GW1 (Winds of Change), we see Canthans beginning to both hate non-humans, but non-Canthans (and by Canthan, I mean non-Empire-proper citizens; vassal citizens don’t count as native in the MoP’s view). We see the Ministry of Purity’s ideals hardened with Usoku, but no clue after that.

Gandarel.5091:

The isolation happened 200 years ago, maybe after that emperor’s death they wouldn’t do that again. 250 years ago the most advanced technology in war was black powder not Gigamegalasers. Many things have changed.

While it’s true Canthans could lose that xenophobia – and we have a long history of 1,700 years where emperors like to act the complete opposite of their father to back it up – we have no evidence to support it. In fact, we have – albeit little – evidence to support the claim that they did not lose the xenophobia.

Usoku’s reign took prominent note in 1127 AE – Zhaitan’s rise is what cut off all lasting contact with Cantha, not Usoku’s isolationism (that just stopped trade and them making contact with us). Zhaitan’s rise was in 1219 AE. That’s about 90 years after Usoku’s reign took big turns. I somehow doubt that Usoku reigned for 90 years, given that would put him well over 100 years old (probably around 110-130 years old) if he were to have taken reign at a young age – which is not only unlikely, but even if so, he’d have to get rid of the Celestial Ministry (sans Ministry of Purity) to get things done without constant hassles that they create given how what Usoku did would infringe on nearly the entirety of the Ministry of Winds’ and delve fully into the Ministry of Fire’s domains.

wouw.5837:

Sorry for the late response, but A artist said Cantha will never release, still looking were I heard it, tho

Unless you can provide a source, I’m going to call utter bull because ArenaNet would NOT definitively close large story opportunities. It’d go against almost everything they have done. They brought back the mursaat in order to keep story possibilities open. They won’t ever outright state “Cantha will not happen. Ever.” They may say “Cantha won’t happen anytime soon” (in fact, Jeff Grubb said this back in 2009 – that there was absolutely no lore written for Cantha at the time beyond what’s been given, and they’re not looking into telling the story for a while (iirc)), but to never happen? I can’t see it. It’d go against how they always act.

Maybe I had heard things wrong, but didn’t the last of the Tengu sail into Tyria just before Zhaitan’s Tsunami, as in they were followed in by the wave? I could have sworn a Tengu told me this, and this would lead me to believe that their isolationism lasted at least until 1219, and most likely into the rule of a second emperor. I may have misread this though. I am having trouble finding specific Tengu NPC’s dialogue.

Other way around – the “Great Tsunami” as the tengu call it supposedly signaled them to head to Tyria. There’s NPCs in Divintiy’s Reach (near Rurikton Waypoint iirc) that says the tengu were the last contact from Cantha, and they said right through Risen; the tengu in, I think Caledon, mention that Talon Silverwing’s descendant led the tengu through Risen.

They arrived after Zhaitan’s rise.

Which even more proves the point. Although one has to wonder how long of a life span the Tengu have, if the same Talon Silverwing fought his way through…

Narcemus.1348:

Which even more proves the point. Although one has to wonder how long of a life span the Tengu have, if the same Talon Silverwing fought his way through…

The descendant of Talon (for me) means descendant of Talon.

Btw the rose of the dragons can change many things too.

Back then, Kryta was in war with Ascalon. After the charr invasion and the searing, Krytans let the Ascalonian refugees flow in and provided them a settlement.

This happened under 5 years. 5 years from enemy to ally.

Same could happen to Cantha. Cantha is the only continent that hasn’t been completele erased just to make the human territory equal to other races’.

If Arenanet is going to destroy another continent, or we will have to kill Canthans just like Ascalonian ghosts, many will be very very angry. They wrote off Elona, Orr, Ascalon, Battle Isles… at least leave Cantha.

I don’t think ArenaNet HAS to do anything. They don’t HAVE to make everyone happy when it comes to their storyline, in fact I’d be sad if they blew away a possibly interesting incident such as introducing Cantha into a race filled world without some incident. Plus if we killed humans it wouldn’t be all humans, obviously, it would most likely just be the Ministry of Purity (which everyone who played GW1 is used to killing anyways).

@Narcemus: Descendant, not Talon himself.

@Gandarel: 2 years, not 5. The Third Guild War ended in 1070; Ascalonians fled to Kryta in 1072 AE. The change that occurred was due to a change in government – the White Mantle, who were not part of the Third Guild War, allowed Ascalonians into Kryta. It’s actually openly shown that the White Mantle was just looking for more converts (and sacrifices). Plus, due to the extreme situation of Ascalon some mercy was brought.

The Elder Dragons have been around for a long time, so unless a new one rises and nearly wipes out humanity on Cantha, and/or Queen Jennah gets overthrown by Caudecus, the same won’t be happening.

They didn’t write off Elona, Orr, or Ascalon. In fact, they wrote in Orr. If you mean Orrians, they couldn’t write off something that wasn’t in the game in the first place, and you still have Ascalonians and Elonians. Elona and Cantha are in the exact same position – but Elona is more likely to return than Cantha. So I don’t know why you’re treating it as worse. Even human-controlled Ascalon may spread in the future, given the peace talks. Seriously, over-exaggeration.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I wonder why we don’t know anything about Cantha in it’s current state. The Order of Whispers is known to travel there still, yet they never talk about it.

You’re thinking of Elona. The Order of Whispers is known to travel to Elona.

They’re suspected of traveling elsewhere – possibly Cantha included (I think it’d be weird if they didn’t know the happenings of Cantha, TBH).

But we don’t hear anything about it because it’s not part of the plot – or either the personal story or the world story.

I see, my bad then ^^

Konig there had to be at least a little more time than just 2 years. There was at the very least one Krytan that we helped to get a bad landlord off of his back in Pre-Searing. For Ascalonians to allow a Krytan to live in their country says to me that the war had to stop at least 1 year beforehand, maybe 6 months, but there’s still going to be a lot of bad blood. As for the Talon thing, somehow I completely missed the word descendant.

Narcemus.1348:

Konig there had to be at least a little more time than just 2 years. There was at the very least one Krytan that we helped to get a bad landlord off of his back in Pre-Searing. For Ascalonians to allow a Krytan to live in their country says to me that the war had to stop at least 1 year beforehand, maybe 6 months, but there’s still going to be a lot of bad blood. As for the Talon thing, somehow I completely missed the word descendant.

Maybe I’m wrong, but if we are talking about the Krytan male NPC near Prience Rurik, his ancestors were imigrants 2-3-4 generations ago as far as i remember.

Idk why i wrote 5 years first, that was really 2.

The Guild wars stopped oly after the searing, not even losing North Ascalon was a reason to end the fights. if you listen to pre-searing guard dialoges, they state that Ascalon’s Chosen is fighting ‘some Orrian guild’ atm.

Narcemus.1348:

Konig there had to be at least a little more time than just 2 years. There was at the very least one Krytan that we helped to get a bad landlord off of his back in Pre-Searing. For Ascalonians to allow a Krytan to live in their country says to me that the war had to stop at least 1 year beforehand, maybe 6 months, but there’s still going to be a lot of bad blood. As for the Talon thing, somehow I completely missed the word descendant.

The charr invasion began in 1070; and it was the charr invasion that ended the Third Guild Wars (with the Searing). During pre-Searing, there’s mention of guilds fighting each other still.

The person you refer to – Namar – is of Krytan DESCENT. His family has been in Ascalon for 3 generations.

“Yes my family is from Kryta originally, but we’ve been in Ascalon for three generations and my father fights for Ascalon’s Chosen.”

So it’s obvious that they moved before the Third Guild War, which lasted for 57 years (beginning in 1013 AE). That, or they moved during the Third Guild War.

So, you’re wrong there.

Be Careful what you wish for. The Canthan fleet under Zheng He might be invading Tyria soon. The Ministry of Purity must finish their work of purification of the world from all non-humans. ^^

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PUZ1irOH3sU/UV2m5rkuqPI/AAAAAAAABVc/XkgvGfDfF78/s1600/83101273.QMYCTn0g.MelakaFeb07547.jpg

http://www.artwallpapers.org/paintings/HongNian-Zhang/images/China's%20Great%20Armada%2036x72.jpg

http://english.yi-sunsin.com/img/03/02_01_img01.jpg

http://www.marinersmuseum.org/blogs/civilwar/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/turtle-ship-fight.jpg

I really wish ppl would stop asking for cantha back cuz its just not goin to happen. No cantha means anet can work on a brand new contient which could hold alot of new things that we havent seen in the gw lore. But really u should of gotten the picture after learning about the great colapse and not bringing the cantha new year back and the whole lore part of the cantha leader kicking out all non humans which means we really not goin to cantha since the rise of the other races. im just saying the hints have been put out ther just look forward for something new.

Arcalas.9368:

I really wish ppl would stop asking for cantha back cuz its just not goin to happen. No cantha means anet can work on a brand new contient which could hold alot of new things that we havent seen in the gw lore. But really u should of gotten the picture after learning about the great colapse and not bringing the cantha new year back and the whole lore part of the cantha leader kicking out all non humans which means we really not goin to cantha since the rise of the other races. im just saying the hints have been put out ther just look forward for something new.

The hints have also hinted we’re going to cantha and elona by the developers eventually. Cantha being ruled by a dictatorship(last we knew) and elona being ruled by palawa joko. Also you don’t know anything regarding the great collapse by your ignorance here.

The reason they destroyed it was mentioned earlier in this thread but the reason was that by having a supposed “oriental themed district” surrounded by european structures it would allude to a real world problem in history and they didn’t wanna offend people with it. Now an entire nation built around cantha culture wouldn’t give off the same vibe they felt the canthan district had because there wouldn’t be any european structure giving the vibe of dominance(the real worry was a perceived form of discrimination regarding race). so I want cantha to return because it gave a wonderful feel and alot can happen in 250 years. just saying

Arcalas.9368:

I really wish ppl would stop asking for cantha back cuz its just not goin to happen. No cantha means anet can work on a brand new contient which could hold alot of new things that we havent seen in the gw lore. But really u should of gotten the picture after learning about the great colapse and not bringing the cantha new year back and the whole lore part of the cantha leader kicking out all non humans which means we really not goin to cantha since the rise of the other races. im just saying the hints have been put out ther just look forward for something new.

Why would they have Canthan New Year in Tyria? That makes no sense, at all.

The Great Collapse happening has nothing to do with Cantha happening or not. There have been a lot of hints that Cantha will eventually happen, and developers have said they want to do it. It’s just that the one area got boo’d to the point of removal so that it can be recreated. The Great Collapse will likely, eventually, get fixed when a “better” version is made.

Furthermore, I’d like to point at Fractals – there’s two Fractals (one’s arguable though) that holds Canthan influence: Solid Ocean and Cliffside (despite what some may think of it being about north of Kryta, the trees, Chanters, seals, etc. all point to Ritualists and other things from Factions imho). When The Lost Shores was being promoted, we were told that there are hints of things to come within it – Fractals was half of the main things introduced with The Lost Shores (the other half being karka, DSD hints, and Southsun Cove). I’d say that’s pretty solid backing for “Cantha will return.”

Regarding Usoku – that was just done as an excuse to not have Cantha open right off the bat. There had to be some reason why players couldn’t visit Cantha, especially right after Zhaitan’s defeat since he was the main protagonist. As it stands, we don’t go mounting expeditions in-game because, lore wise, no one wants to go to Cantha because they’re jerks.

Why would they make a Fractal about the Jade Sea with a kraken as its final boss if they’re wiping out Cantha?

It’s called suspense folks…

That ain’t no Kraken, that’s a Tentacle Monster, it’s even more stereotyping then the Asians surrounded by Europeans thingy :P

No, it’s a kraken. It’s called such by ArenaNet themselves. Though one can call a kraken a “tentacle monster” since krakens are basically just gigantic squid/octopi/whatever hybrids.

(Edit: and yes, I realize you were joking, Bummaster)

Heheh, sure they are the same family, while the Kraken is the more fearsome one, the Tentacle Monster is his more pervy cousin. Most ppl say they got “tentacled” rather than “krakened” when hit by Maw. But i am going way off topic now.

More topic, i thought Cantha wasn’t very well received because they mashed all the Eastern cultures into one big …uhmm… pie? Stew? BBQ? The Cantha from Factions may not exist, but a redesigned one is allowed (at least it’s what i deduced from it). If it is indeed true, then i hope they leave Cantha out.

Bunmaster.9734:

More topic, i thought Cantha wasn’t very well received because they mashed all the Eastern cultures into one big …uhmm… pie? Stew? BBQ? The Cantha from Factions may not exist, but a redesigned one is allowed (at least it’s what i deduced from it). If it is indeed true, then i hope they leave Cantha out.

It had more to do with the fact that the Canthan district looked more like the shacks and what not from Cantha. However ANet saw that it looked weird and a bit offensive to have the ‘poor’ district be asian themed while being surrounded by European style architecture that looks nicer.

Im not really understanding why people jump to the no Canthan mentality just because of the Great Collapse.

@Bunmaster and Exelion: You two got it backwards. What Bunmaster said about Cantha was the response to Canthan District in Divinity’s Reach (GW2); what Exelion said was the response to Kaineng City in Cantha (GW1).

The only negative feedback I’ve ever heard about Cantha itself is the (imo silly, but hey, Asian pride?) argument that GW1’s Kaineng City gave a “bad impression” that all Asian cultures were poor, overpopulated, and living in slums (because fantasy reflects reality amiright).

The Canthan district was poorly received because of the meshing of cultures in structure design. If you actually look at the pre-beta screenshots of the Canthan district, it was not poor or shacks. It was removed so that Anet could remake it for having a better reception.

Though like Exelion, I don’t see why people think “temporarily removed district to remake for better reception” equate “the continent of Cantha will never come to be!!11!1!!!one!11!oneone!!!11eleven!”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Arcalas.9368:

I really wish ppl would stop asking for cantha back cuz its just not goin to happen. No cantha means anet can work on a brand new contient which could hold alot of new things that we havent seen in the gw lore. But really u should of gotten the picture after learning about the great colapse and not bringing the cantha new year back and the whole lore part of the cantha leader kicking out all non humans which means we really not goin to cantha since the rise of the other races. im just saying the hints have been put out ther just look forward for something new.

Why would they have Canthan New Year in Tyria? That makes no sense, at all.

The Great Collapse happening has nothing to do with Cantha happening or not. There have been a lot of hints that Cantha will eventually happen, and developers have said they want to do it. It’s just that the one area got boo’d to the point of removal so that it can be recreated. The Great Collapse will likely, eventually, get fixed when a “better” version is made.

Furthermore, I’d like to point at Fractals – there’s two Fractals (one’s arguable though) that holds Canthan influence: Solid Ocean and Cliffside (despite what some may think of it being about north of Kryta, the trees, Chanters, seals, etc. all point to Ritualists and other things from Factions imho). When The Lost Shores was being promoted, we were told that there are hints of things to come within it – Fractals was half of the main things introduced with The Lost Shores (the other half being karka, DSD hints, and Southsun Cove). I’d say that’s pretty solid backing for “Cantha will return.”

Regarding Usoku – that was just done as an excuse to not have Cantha open right off the bat. There had to be some reason why players couldn’t visit Cantha, especially right after Zhaitan’s defeat since he was the main protagonist. As it stands, we don’t go mounting expeditions in-game because, lore wise, no one wants to go to Cantha because they’re jerks.

Yes i know things whats hinted but with Zhaitan dead opens not just paths to cantha but also paths to other landmasses and right now i see no reason to go to cantha other than to let other races than humans live ther or add the dsd in as a problem there. Im only looking at new areas on the world map of tyria that havent been touched at all.

Like i said Cantha is wanted by alot cuz we know of it just like elona but we have more reasons to go to elona than cantha.

O and fractals was is just a hugh hint box. Grawl following a fire like god, a asura going mad, the swamp fractal, the coming fight with jormag, the unknown colossus, the deep underwater zone, etc. etc. they all hint at things to come to the game but i see more reason why anet is not going to do cantha or if they can i dont see them bringing cantha back in including the post that has u all posting about bring cantha back.

Reply as u wish im not going to respond to this post but i will say one thing.

Good Luck.

I personally think that Zhaitan dead opens up paths to Elona more than Cantha. There is still an Elder Dragon in the sea that would most likely attack ships, but it seems apparent that shipping close to land doesn’t hold too many dangers as people continue doing it. On top of that, Palawa Joko is a definite threat to the Pact, plus additional allies never hurts. The only side I’m seeing against this is that “fighting undead twice would suck” but Palawa’s undead are massively different from Zhaitan’s, and an expansion into Elona would most likely lead to a fight against Kralkatorrik, and there are many other enemies within Elona (Harpies, Heket, Behemoths, Djinn) to add variety to the area. I personally hope we expand that direction and run into some Hydras somewhere in the Crystal Desert, and at this exact moment I am wondering just how creepy a Branded Hydra would look.

@Arcalas: I wouldn’t say Zhaitan being dead opens up a path to Cantha at all. As mentioned, there’s the DSD – not to mention that it’s very possible the Pact is keeping Orr and the Strait of Malchor quarantined for a while, what with the risen not just dropping dead with Zhaitan’s death. I mean, who knows how many Risen got stationed on the Ring of Fire (we know Zhaitan had his fleet going there and it is a magical hotspot, what with a Bloodstone and the Door of Komalie being there).

As to going elsewhere, well, with all the problems going on in Tyria, I don’t think anyone other than small adventurer/explorer groups or would-be refugees are willing to go try opening access to other lands – or at least spend enough reasonable resources for such. Especially when there’s no knowledge of what’s been happening in the past 150 years.

The only places outside Tyria I see us going would be north to Jormag, west to Malyck’s tree/White Mantle issue/Mordremoth(?), and southeast to Joko and Kralkatorrik.

Arcalas.9368:

O and fractals was is just a hugh hint box. Grawl following a fire like god, a asura going mad, the swamp fractal, the coming fight with jormag, the unknown colossus, the deep underwater zone, etc. etc. they all hint at things to come to the game but i see more reason why anet is not going to do cantha or if they can i dont see them bringing cantha back in including the post that has u all posting about bring cantha back.

Not everything in Fractals is meant to be a hint. I don’t see the grawl or swamp fractals as hints, for example. Nor do I see how they could be, TBH.

I wouldn’t say at all that Cantha will not be done. No, it won’t be done right away, it may not be done for a while, however to say it was abandoned is just pure foolishness at this point.

Narcemus.1348:

On top of that, Palawa Joko is a definite threat to the Pact, plus additional allies never hurts.

How is Joko a threat to an organization that is solely about fighting Elder Dragons? Is Joko allying with an Elder Dragon? No – he’s been fighting the Risen. If anything, Joko may be viewed as an ally to the Pact – even if he’s hated by the Order of Whispers (the Whispers doesn’t even take up a third of the Pact by the end of the main storyline).

Because Palawa Joko is a threat. The Pact may have been made for the purpose of destroying Elder Dragons, but it is more than that. The Pact was made to ensure safety of Tyria. Do you honestly think that they will kill Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik then move on from the south leaving a land hungry lich to do as he pleases? No military organization would leave themselves undefended in a position like this, their choices would be leave a garrison to the south for the forseeable future, or take out another threat that will be posed to every race (not just a few individual ones). Unlike the Centaurs or the Flame Legion or the Ogres, Joko would pose a threat to every race and nationality in Tyria, much like an Elder Dragon, so I can definitely see him as a target in the eyes of the Pact.

I don’t see the Pact moving against Palawa unless he moves against them first. The Pact can only exist through the support of the three Orders and the different racial nations. Like it or not, Palawa is the ruler of Elona. If the Pact moves against him without provocation, using resources given to them by Kryta and/or the nations; it could pull everyone into a political conflict. Which is not something to be taken lightly.

The Order of Whispers on the other hand, will probably have a field day sabotaging him with the player’s support.

You seem to be misunderstanding something.

The Pact is an anti-Elder Dragon organization solely comprised of other factions. It is, in other words, an alliance. The only thing they’ve been doing is fighting things that are Elder Dragons(’ minions), aiding Elder Dragons(’ minions), or preventing fighting Elder Dragons(’ minions). However, the Pact is comprised of organizations which are not solely anti-Elder Dragon.

In other words: the Pact won’t go after Joko unless he becomes a threat related to the Elder Dragons, even if it’s as indirect as preventing fighting one. However, those who comprise the Pact – for example, the Order of Whispers – very well may.

Furthermore, we have historical evidence that Joko, while not the nicest guy in the neighborhood, is not evil. He is not a tyrannical kill-all-the-things who seeks to rule the world. He took control of Elona 60 years after Nightfall – however, there was no movement of him pushing north for the following 90 years that was between him taking reign and Zhaitan rising, let alone the 190 years between him taking reign and Kralkatorrik rising.

There is absolutely no evidence that Joko wants more than Elona. He’s no idiot, even if he’s the comic relief villain of GW1, and he knows how much hassle it is to rule a large nation. Furthermore, he has to maintain both living and undead – which is likely a hard job. He rewards those who work for him, and only require tribute like any other king would from his subjects. Though the Movement words things rather harshly, in actuality, he doesn’t seem all that “bad” of a ruler – no more than typical rulers of old.

The Pact won’t be going against Joko unless Joko gives them reason.

Chances are, if we ever get to Elona, it’ll be the Order of Whispers – acting independently – making the first move.

I’m sorry, but I honestly can’t see a group like the Pact just sitting by and watching Palawa Joko take over swaths of land just because “Well he wasn’t helping an Elder Dragon so it’s not our problem” I honestly don’t understand why you think they would be so naive. So far, all I’ve heard is that the Pact will kill Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik and just butt out, head north for Jormag (assuming they take out Kralky before Jormag) and leave everything open. I’m sure that’s fine, no bad can come of it. Which is fine I guess. Just believe that this organization is as stupid as everyone seems to think their leader is. I personally believe the reason the Pact hasn’t gotten involved in any actions other than the Elder Dragons is because no other conflicts involve all the races. I mean why would the Charr care to funnel resources into taking out Inquest or Sons of Svanir, etc… But an undead lich who only cared to rule all would be a threat to all, making it a target worth aiming for. But I stand aside, apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about.

No, I know exactly what Joko is like. I know he’s no Lich Lord, but he is power hungry, and in his long lifetime eventually he will get bored of just owning Elona. As for why he didn’t move northwards and try to conquer more lands before Zhaitan, my best guess would be solidifying his position. Obviously it was a near bloodless revolution when it came to the leaders, but people never surrender as easily, you need to rule over them with an iron fist until their will is broken. Not only did he have the people of Elona to deal with, but he had to deal with the Centaurs, Heket, and Harpies, all which I can see causing him headaches. Personal opinion, he bided his time (something he can do as an undead lord) and Zhaitan’s coming gave him something to be afraid of and made him give up any thoughts of moving on to conquer more of Tyria.

You’re making the grossly speculative presumption that Joko will be taking over swaths of land owned by someone else – thus becoming a threat to others.

He may go after the Crystal Desert – which would put him at odds with Kralkatorrik if he’s not already at odds against them. But that’d make him an ally to the Pact. He’s been fighting Zhaitan’s forces for 150 years, again this would make him an ally to the Pact. He might want Orr, but that’s unlikely IMO – especially if he’s learned anything about how the Pact took out an Elder Dragon. He’s no idiot, he’s not going to make enemies out of the greatest force of Tyria, and indeed, the world.

Beyond this, I have nothing more to say. You say all you’ve heard is that Joko would be ignored. But that’s not true. What you should be hearing is “until Joko makes himself a threat first, he won’t be the target of a group who has bigger priorities.”

The Iron Legion probably doesn’t give a skritt’s buttocks about Joko. They’re backing up the Pact to take out Elder Dragons – the second they go after Joko instead, they may pull out. Same goes for Vigil, who are likewise primarily interested in Elder Dragons and those who become huge threats (like the Molten Alliance). Priory probably as well as the Krytan nation and sylvari race. End of the day, unless Joko makes himself a threat first – which we have seen no real indication of him intending to do such let alone expand beyond Elona, only the Order of Whispers would be backing the Pact against Joko, and maybe the humans of Elonian descent.

Narcemus.1348:

No, I know exactly what Joko is like. I know he’s no Lich Lord, but he is power hungry, and in his long lifetime eventually he will get bored of just owning Elona. As for why he didn’t move northwards and try to conquer more lands before Zhaitan, my best guess would be solidifying his position. Obviously it was a near bloodless revolution when it came to the leaders, but people never surrender as easily, you need to rule over them with an iron fist until their will is broken. Not only did he have the people of Elona to deal with, but he had to deal with the Centaurs, Heket, and Harpies, all which I can see causing him headaches. Personal opinion, he bided his time (something he can do as an undead lord) and Zhaitan’s coming gave him something to be afraid of and made him give up any thoughts of moving on to conquer more of Tyria.

Well, I’ll just say this first. I don’t want you to be ruling anything, because you sound like you’d make a worse (more evil and cruel, that is) overlord than Joko is.

• Point to me where it says he’s ruling with an iron fist.
• Point to me where he ever had thoughts of conquering Tyria. Let alone any indication that Zhaitan kept him from conquering Tyria.
• Point to me where he’ll be bent on ruling more if he ever tires of ruling Elona – usually when long-living rulers grow bored, instead of wanting to own more they just want to create intrigue within their own nation.

From what we learned about Joko, he always laid claim to Elona – and only to Elona. He’s not the nicest ruler, but he’s not ruling with an iron grip per se. He’s rationing water and crops (what the Warmarshals of Kourna did ever since they kitten the Elon), and he punishes those who rise against him (something any nation does). He rewards those faithful and the only people we’ve heard hide or tail of him oppressing are the Ossas.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You’re making the grossly speculative presumption that Joko will be taking over swaths of land owned by someone else – thus becoming a threat to others.

He may go after the Crystal Desert – which would put him at odds with Kralkatorrik if he’s not already at odds against them. But that’d make him an ally to the Pact. He’s been fighting Zhaitan’s forces for 150 years, again this would make him an ally to the Pact. He might want Orr, but that’s unlikely IMO – especially if he’s learned anything about how the Pact took out an Elder Dragon. He’s no idiot, he’s not going to make enemies out of the greatest force of Tyria, and indeed, the world.

Beyond this, I have nothing more to say. You say all you’ve heard is that Joko would be ignored. But that’s not true. What you should be hearing is “until Joko makes himself a threat first, he won’t be the target of a group who has bigger priorities.”

The Iron Legion probably doesn’t give a skritt’s buttocks about Joko. They’re backing up the Pact to take out Elder Dragons – the second they go after Joko instead, they may pull out. Same goes for Vigil, who are likewise primarily interested in Elder Dragons and those who become huge threats (like the Molten Alliance). Priory probably as well as the Krytan nation and sylvari race. End of the day, unless Joko makes himself a threat first – which we have seen no real indication of him intending to do such let alone expand beyond Elona, only the Order of Whispers would be backing the Pact against Joko, and maybe the humans of Elonian descent.

Narcemus.1348:

No, I know exactly what Joko is like. I know he’s no Lich Lord, but he is power hungry, and in his long lifetime eventually he will get bored of just owning Elona. As for why he didn’t move northwards and try to conquer more lands before Zhaitan, my best guess would be solidifying his position. Obviously it was a near bloodless revolution when it came to the leaders, but people never surrender as easily, you need to rule over them with an iron fist until their will is broken. Not only did he have the people of Elona to deal with, but he had to deal with the Centaurs, Heket, and Harpies, all which I can see causing him headaches. Personal opinion, he bided his time (something he can do as an undead lord) and Zhaitan’s coming gave him something to be afraid of and made him give up any thoughts of moving on to conquer more of Tyria.

Well, I’ll just say this first. I don’t want you to be ruling anything, because you sound like you’d make a worse (more evil and cruel, that is) overlord than Joko is.

• Point to me where it says he’s ruling with an iron fist.
• Point to me where he ever had thoughts of conquering Tyria. Let alone any indication that Zhaitan kept him from conquering Tyria.
• Point to me where he’ll be bent on ruling more if he ever tires of ruling Elona – usually when long-living rulers grow bored, instead of wanting to own more they just want to create intrigue within their own nation.

From what we learned about Joko, he always laid claim to Elona – and only to Elona. He’s not the nicest ruler, but he’s not ruling with an iron grip per se. He’s rationing water and crops (what the Warmarshals of Kourna did ever since they kitten the Elon), and he punishes those who rise against him (something any nation does). He rewards those faithful and the only people we’ve heard hide or tail of him oppressing are the Ossas.

Ok on the iron fist part if you remember gw1 it’s clearly stated how he enslaved the centaurs into his army and work force http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crossing_the_Desolation (Mirza’s first spoken line) and he also was famous for betraying and slaughtering people on whim’s(http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_Deal%27s_a_Deal).

To be honest this took me 5 minutes of looking around. So it’d be better to spend time looking round then arguing but hey if you wanna waste time defending a monster of a character go for it.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bone_Palace , He also enslaves souls(rumors but given how he rises in power and we dont know how his undead form works this is a decent link either way) again it says enslave not rule over meaning you guessed it! he’s a monster for forcing people into slave(btw this is kind of the defintion of a tyrant).

Given he has a history of stealing kingdom’s and such it’s only common sense he’d eventually wanna branch out more after getting his own land under lock and key

Also saying someone else would be more cruel or evil for having speculation is kind of ignorant and rude given you don’t know much bout joko or the person you’re referring to.