Guild Wars 2

One of the new ascended items has text hinting at the combined forces of dredge and flame legion.

Is it possibly foreshadowing this Fire&Ice? Since we know for sure it does not feature the elder dragon minions (according to a dev post) we can conclude dredge + flame legion. Interestingly enough, both have ties to Primordus.

Kain Francois.4328:

One of the new ascended items has text hinting at the combined forces of dredge and flame legion.

Is it possibly foreshadowing this Fire&Ice? Since we know for sure it does not feature the elder dragon minions (according to a dev post) we can conclude dredge + flame legion. Interestingly enough, both have ties to Primordus.

I’m sorry, I’m still amused swinging by Lion’s Arch and spotting who is the “mysterious benefactor” there for the refugees and what their plans are to help them.

Interestingly, I’m having trouble picturing the Dredge and Flame Legion working together willingly. The Dredge have proven rabidly xenophobic, and the Flame Legion are never shy about merely using whatever tools come their way. Yet Dredge invaders are dropping Ritual Bags and Flame Legion are pouring out of Dredge assault vehicles . . .

I still cannot shake the idea that something is seriously amiss here.

Storyline-wise, the dredge regime and the Flame Legion have just taken some heavy blows that may have lead them to alter their strategy – we also see in Sorrow’s Embrace that the dredge regime is willing to work with outsiders, they just encourage xenophobia because that’s a unifying factor… those that ally with the regime are then presented as the “good outsiders”. So it could be that they’ve both seen the writing on the wall with the formation of the Pact and its successful taking out of an elder dragon, and figured that their best chance of not being next was to gather what allies they can and go on the offensive.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see the triad seen in Brisban Wildlands jumping in as well before it’s all over. Maybe even the centaurs.

I, too, am intrigued. I associate the dredge with technology and the Flame Legion with magic, however there’s no reason why they couldn’t work together to get the best of both worlds (which that ascended item may be hinting at, some kind of fused technology). What I find odd is the dredge working with anyone. I doubt they’ve been forced or cowed by the Flame Legion, but I can’t think of any other reason why they’d help them. The politics behind this must be interesting (and possibly part of a large dredge rebellion story in the long term?).

I’m also amused and interested to see the Consortium jumping on the refugee issue – just helping their fellows out of the goodness of their heart, I’m sure. It’s possible that they just see people desperate enough to move to Southsun Cove and make it a little less miserable (boosting their optimistic tourist ventures), but I’m suspicious. I recently started wondering about other things the Consortium have their fingers in, and I won’t be surprised to find them continuing to scheme throughout this year’s event updates!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Interestingly, I’m having trouble picturing the Dredge and Flame Legion working together willingly. The Dredge have proven rabidly xenophobic, and the Flame Legion are never shy about merely using whatever tools come their way. Yet Dredge invaders are dropping Ritual Bags and Flame Legion are pouring out of Dredge assault vehicles . . .

I still cannot shake the idea that something is seriously amiss here.

The most dangerous animal is the one that’s been backed into a corner.

What happened to the dredge leadership (the xenophobic dredge) and the Flame Legion? They got their kitten handed to them, their leadership mostly wiped out, and then their kitten handed to them again. They’re stuck in a corner, and striking before the death blow comes.

That’s how I see it. But the two groups do have something in common that is only shared with one other race: They have history in trying to utilize destroyers as weapons (first the Flame Legion in Eye of the North, then the dredge in Sorrow’s Embrace explorable).

Interesting observation. More generally, they both have a fascination with digging deep into Tyria’s crust – Flame Legion looking to get access to volcanic chambers that seem to be their main power sources, while dredge have their habit of drilling dangerously deep. It might be a case of having a common interest in exploiting the Depths, but since they want different things they’re not in direct competition.

However, thinking on the third group, I’m wondering if the Inquest has been building up some kind of Nefarious Antagonists Terror Organisation to oppose the Pact, and this is just the opening moves… apart from, that is, the activities of the Nightmare Court that’s keeping the Caithe occupied, and whatever’s keeping Logan tied down with ’queen’s business’.

The personal story is taking some interesting paths here though at the moment I think we are only scratching the surface. The from reports by refugees, we arent just having the dredge and Flame Legions fighting together, but using each others weapons and teck. This is a substancial alliance.

Further, we really don’t know whats causing all the vents. Logically it would be this new alliance but that isnt completely certain. Indeed the vents seem to be popping up almost randomly spreading out from the ‘Steam’ mountain that now has some structure on it.

I still think this could be an attack set up by the Inquest. They have a history with the dredge and I can see them approaching elements of the Flame Legion, particularly if they have the tech to control Destroyers. Certainly Ill be curious to find out how this alliance came about.

On a seperate path we have the refugees and their fate. We see the Consortium turning up and looking to relocate the refugees in LA to Southsun Cove. We all know they arent doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. The fact they are shunning the Grawl refugees is certianly interesting. It will be interesting to find out what they plan for the refugees.

I know this is a stretch but what if teh consortium are behind the dredge and flame legion combining together. I do not trust them – they are not helping the grawl and it just seems opportunism on their behalf. If they are not behind the joining together they will be up to something later I am sure

Ashebyrne.8352:

I know this is a stretch but what if teh consortium are behind the dredge and flame legion combining together. I do not trust them – they are not helping the grawl and it just seems opportunism on their behalf. If they are not behind the joining together they will be up to something later I am sure

Its all a plot to get the Refugees to visit their beach resort in Southsun Cove!

Muhahahaha!

I wouldn’t put it past them – unlikely as a motive that may seem

I don’t think the Consortium are behind this. They’re not evil, they don’t want to cause problems and won’t do anything that they can’t wiggle the blame off of themselves for doing. They didn’t intend karka to attack Lion’s Arch and the like, they just wanted to make money via turning Southsun Cove into a vacation spot.

The Consortium are opportunists and amoral in its finest sense. They’re like a group of Inquest that’s multi-racial and about obtaining money rather than the truth of Eternal Alchemy (and as such, don’t go torturing innocents – because that doesn’t make them money, or rather the risk is far greater than potential profit).

You can probably compare the Consortium to most high-fledged corporations of today – they’ll bribe and withhold helpful stuff just to get more money, heck they might even make a single person disappear (some would say they might have with Canach’s disappearance), but they won’t go causing mass panic and hysteria for it – too much risk should it get traced back to them.

In full agreement with you on this Konig. The Consortium are just doing what they do best, trying to turn a profit on a crappy situation. With the influx of refugee’s (ie homeless people) into Lion’s Arch, trying to provide housing for them on Southsun is the easiest way to turn a crab people infested hell hole look slightly more accommodating as a vacation spot.

Though I’m definitely intrigued by just what the dredge and the Flame Legion intend to get out of this arrangement. I mean, the Flame Legion are obviously after the Charr to regain their control over the society, but I’m at a loss at what the Dredge look to gain from this alliance. Any time they do agree to help ‘good outsiders’ there’s usually some kind of carrot for them. I just don’t see that carrot here, unless they hope to usurp Norn lands?

Long story short: When the Norn got bullied away from their native home by Jormag, they in turn bullied the Dredge around Hoelbrak away from their native home.

Except that they didn’t, Oglaf. The dredge’s “native home” is further south than where the norn are, and on top of that, underground.

The dredge have been expanding their “native home” through force ever since they were freed from slavery. And they’re naturally xenophobic – the fighting between the two races grew because norn love challenges and the dredge, being hostile xenophobic expansionists that they became, provided that challenge.

draxynnic.3719:

I’m wondering if the Inquest has been building up some kind of Nefarious Antagonists Terror Organisation to oppose the Pact

I lol’d.

The steam vents would make sense if the Flame Legion/dredge alliance have been doing something underground – something fire/lava related that the dredge could get to and the Flame Legion could make best use of, perhaps? There must be some reason the alliance was worth it for both sides; mutual advantage.

It would be cool if there were bases being constructed under Wayfarer Foothills and Diessa Plateau, and the steam was coming out of work being done down there, but then I feel it would have made more sense for the ‘invaders’ to jump from underground rather than through portals. Still, the portals may be a Flame Legion convenience.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Except that they didn’t, Oglaf. The dredge’s “native home” is further south than where the norn are, and on top of that, underground.

The dredge have been expanding their “native home” through force ever since they were freed from slavery. And they’re naturally xenophobic – the fighting between the two races grew because norn love challenges and the dredge, being hostile xenophobic expansionists that they became, provided that challenge.

Okay, maybe “native home” was a poor choice of words on my part. Doesn’t change anything: there were Dredge living in the areas surrounding Hoelbrak and the Norns arrived and gave them the boot. A lot of Hearts in the lowbie Norn areas revolve around kicking Dredge around still. There’s definitely a reason for the Dredge to team up with the Fire Legion to retake Wayfarer’s Foothills.

I found an event were flame legion and dredgewere attacking together in diessa plateu. Theflame guyshad sorrows embrace armor on :P so they are working together

I like the Destroyers observation.

With Gaheron out of the equation (and the attemp at resurrecting him failing), they need some god sort of figure to worship as they’re a bunch of fanatics led by manipulative shamans and the “flavor of the month” god.

They took Destroyers as replacement for Titans as gods in the past, so maybe now knowing about their origin (an Elder Dragon) they take the Sons of Svannir route and try to please Primordious.

With Dredge, I always though the Destroyer in path 3 was more a remain of Inquest job there rather than the Dredge intentionally seeking destroyers help, but even then maybe now that they know how to deal with them as allies they can see how the Destroyers can benefit them in destroying (pun intended) the opponents to their regime.

Maybe both have found a way to work with them and the destroyers are the ones forcing them to work together to prepare a bigger attack.

I know Primordious and the destroyers show no interest on living beings, and they seem to be focused on what their name tells, but I think they could see races trying to work with them as aditional tools for their final goal.

As an example, recently in X-Men comics, Colossus took the Juggernaut powers from Cain Marko, and Cytorakk, the source of those powers said that he wasn’t interested on the fact that he was good or evil, only on how much destruction he caused and that in fact being a hero he was involved in even more destruction than his predecessor.

The same way as long as they cause havok and destruction, Primordious could accept the company of Dredge and Flame Legion among his troops.

About the idea of the Inquest trying to make an opposition force to the Pact, it could make sense. They allied with the humans and sylvari antagonists before, and they see the “greater goal”, plus they were in Arah when the Pact slained an Elder Dragon (which I’m sure kitten them as they want to do experiments related with the dragons, and a dead elder dragon isn’t as good for that as a living one), so witnessing their power they may realize how they need to unite with other evil groups or be defeated by that alliance and defeat = no time and resources for experiments.

Oglaf.1074:

Okay, maybe “native home” was a poor choice of words on my part. Doesn’t change anything: there were Dredge living in the areas surrounding Hoelbrak and the Norns arrived and gave them the boot. A lot of Hearts in the lowbie Norn areas revolve around kicking Dredge around still. There’s definitely a reason for the Dredge to team up with the Fire Legion to retake Wayfarer’s Foothills.

Those dredge are actually invading Hoelbrak’s surroundings, not the other way around.

It’s rather poor form to blame the norn on attacking the dredge, when we can’t say which attacked first, and both races have groups which pre-emptively assault the other. And there’s only a few of such norn, but all dredge (except rebels not seen in Wayfarer) are of this sort.

Lokheit.7943:

They took Destroyers as replacement for Titans as gods in the past, so maybe now knowing about their origin (an Elder Dragon) they take the Sons of Svannir route and try to please Primordious.

With Dredge, I always though the Destroyer in path 3 was more a remain of Inquest job there rather than the Dredge intentionally seeking destroyers help, but even then maybe now that they know how to deal with them as allies they can see how the Destroyers can benefit them in destroying (pun intended) the opponents to their regime.

Maybe both have found a way to work with them and the destroyers are the ones forcing them to work together to prepare a bigger attack.

1) It was remnant of Inquest work – the Inquest gave the dredge leadership a means to control destroyers. The Destroyer of Worlds wasn’t acting out of its (or Primordus’) own will.

2) Jormag is unique and is the only Elder Dragon shown to work with non-corrupted creatures; Primordus is the least likely to work with the races since he seems by all indication intent with killing every last one (as opposed to corrupting every living being like the others). So I cannot see Primordus utilizing living beings personally. The only way I see destroyers related to this story would be if the dredge had re-obtained a means to control destroyers and the Flame Legion, being fire fanatics that they are, want to exploit this.

3) Given points 1 and 2, I think Primordus would be more kitten off at the dredge and Inquest than any other group and would be more likely to target them first rather than get them to work for him.

Given there was a period where asuran gates used Primordius’ power to work, wouldn’t it be . . . say, likely that the dragon can actually reach through them? You know, unless the basic theory and design has vastly been changed over the years.

I’ve heard some players talking about this alliance between d & f, that these two combined created the steam creatures. I know its far-fetched (considering that we have seen steam creatures attack the dredge) but they were also claiming these f-legions and dredge are from a different location in the Mists. I would like to know if we have any info on that theory. Personaly, I think good ol’ ’mordius is forcing these two factions to step up thier plans for world domination, more of a last desperate attack on the surface before the rest of the world and the destroyers come down on them.

It’s disturbing to say the least. Note that the flame legion are supervising a dredge workforce, so it’s not an alliance of equals.

In all Liklihood the flame legion may have made a power play on the dredge somehow and begun enslaving or simply employing them them in a larger play for wayfarer foothills in order to effectively backdoor the Black Citadel.

Basically, i feel like the endgame here is the dredge, under flame legion control or employment, digging a tunnel in to the citadel, or even possibly digging an artificial sink hole to just dunk the citadel in a single action.

Meanwhile, the Norn get caught in the crossfire, or the agreement is specifically “help us dig a sinkhole under the Black Citadel and we’ll help you take out the Norn”

The dredge would be asking for help if they have been enslaved – they have been eradicating everything of the dearves because of that. I think someone has orchestrated an alliance – whether through an intermediary or by their own we will ahve to look at. The building that is constructed near the vents/entrance to diessa – looks norn design to me but i’m no expert

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s rather poor form to blame the norn on attacking the dredge, when we can’t say which attacked first, and both races have groups which pre-emptively assault the other. And there’s only a few of such norn, but all dredge (except rebels not seen in Wayfarer) are of this sort..

I don’t think the Dredge (or Norn for that matter!) really care about who started it in this case, so its still all good (or bad!).

Btw, about the Consortium’s involvement, anyone else noticed that little dialogue with the npc at the refugee camp in LA, that clearly states that the Consortium is actually building new homes for the refugees in Southsun Cove? Irrelevant or maybe not?

I don’t think the Consortium folks are responsible for what is happening. I don’t see them as having either the inclination or the capabilities to pull off something like this. The Consortium so far has not been portrayed as evil for evil’s sake – they’re just amoral for profit’s sake. I don’t think causing a disaster on this scale deliberately would make much sense with what we’ve seen so far.

That said, I do think the Consortium are going to be important in the story, because it seems clear they’re jumping in to try to profit from the situation. I think we need to keep an eye on them as F&F progresses.

I’m very curious about why they don’t want Grawl refugees in Southsun Cove – that seems like they know something the rest of us don’t.

Actually causing the disaster, though? I don’t see why they would do that or how they’d pull it off.

bullyrook.2165:

I’ve heard some players talking about this alliance between d & f, that these two combined created the steam creatures.

I think that’s unlikely since the steam creatures are given a different origin in the Asura personal story.

Well, I think it’s due to PR. The grawl are generally seen as primitive and barbaric – even if this tribe is one of the peaceful ones. If they move to a vacation spot that already has karka as neighbors, that just makes Southsun Cove all the less desirable – regardless of why the grawl or there or whatever else the Consortium may bring there.

Ashebyrne.8352:

The dredge would be asking for help if they have been enslaved – they have been eradicating everything of the dearves because of that. I think someone has orchestrated an alliance – whether through an intermediary or by their own we will ahve to look at.

I wouldn’t be surprised to find this linking, at some point in the future, to a revolution among the dredge. We have the example of the rebels in Frostgorge Sound, and while it’s possible that this is an isolated case, I doubt it is entirely. If dredge leadership have been making deals with the Flame Legion which turn out to be unpopular in hindsight (say it starts to look like common dredge workers being committed to labour for others while their leaders benefit from it), it could stir some more discontent and lead in to a dredge story arc.

Although it’s possible this could be part of the resolution of Flame and Frost, I think it’s more likely we’ll see that ‘living story’ play out over the year, in the background of things, and Flame and Frost is just laying the groundwork for it. If they go that way, of course.

They’re already revolting. That’s the focus behind Sorrow’s Embrace explorable and the Frostgorge Sound dredge.

At this point, rather than the leadership allying with the Flame Legion, I think the dredge have officially schismed in two – those in favor of the molitariate (aka corrupt government), and those not.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

At this point, rather than the leadership allying with the Flame Legion, I think the dredge have officially schismed in two – those in favor of the molitariate (aka corrupt government), and those not.

There’s practically a full fledged rebellion going on in Frostgorge, as you say.

So yeah.

Definitely.

It would make a lot of sense that the Moletariate would ally with the Flame Legion in order to get their power back from the rebel dredge.

This is a huge guess here, but maybe the Flame Legion and the dredge are looking for something? Something they can’t get to unless they push the locals out of the area. You may note that many the Flame Legion were wearing dredge gear and lanterns. Perhaps they are working to find something? Did no one else notice the massive gates that appeared in the northern foothills?

On another note, don’t the dredge build massive siege engines? What would the result be if you took searing magic and combined the two? It was hinted with the accended item molten ore. This could be a case of an overwhelming advance in both factions arsenal, that simply allows the two to set aside their politics for an extended period.

Everything you mentioned folks have noticed.

But no, the dredge don’t build massive siege engines – they build drills and sonic devices. The most massive one of them being destroyed in the norn personal storyline (and later reworked for Priory usage).

To the people saying that the Consortium don’t want Grawl refugees in Southsun, that wasn’t quite the impression I got. Talking to the Refugee Grawl Chieftain in LA reveals that the Consortium have been giving food and other goods to the Grawl as well, but the Grawl have refused any aid given to them by the Consortium. As the chieftain put it, “Their smiles do not touch their eyes. We do not eat food that they have touched.”

It’s fairly obvious that the Consortium is helping the refugees for their own ulterior motives (probably in an attempt to salvage their Southsun Cove holiday destination idea), but I very much doubt that they’re the ones behind the Dredge/Flame Legion attacks. They’ve simply spotted an opportunity and pounced on it.

Writing story in an MMO environment resembles building a giant puzzle. We want to avoid temporal paradoxes, for example. From a player perspective, the Personal Story is unfolding simultaneously with the Living Story, but how can characters be in both places at the same time? Furthermore, do we all presume that So-and-So is dead, because he died at level 80, or do we assume the opposite? There’s a minefield of possible paradoxes that we have to carefully move through when writing the Living Story, and we’ve had to shift our thinking a bit to accommodate that. This has taken a lot of thought and forethought.

[…]

Aside from the Living Story main characters, we’ll also be surprising you with interesting villains, one of whom will become your personal nemesis. Again, no spoilers allowed, so I can’t tell you more than that, but you’ll recognize this sassy character when you see…um, him/her/it. <grin>

from: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/living-story-evolution/

my personal guess after reading this article is this: whatever the living story brings, it will be inconsequential in the long run and insignificant as far as the overall lore/story of tyria is concerned. how interesting it might be from a personal story standpoint, i couldn’t tell. also, i’m suspecting our new nemesis might be (partially) responsible for whatever the dredge and flame legion are planning.

Zaxares.5419:

[…]but the Grawl have refused any aid given to them by the Consortium. As the chieftain put it, “Their smiles do not touch their eyes. We do not eat food that they have touched.”[…]

i found it so funny that out of all people, the grawl are the only ones clever enough not to trust the consortium.

I figured an interesting side story to begin would be the grawl hitching a ride with the Consortium on the way to Southsun Cove, then beginning their own lifestyle there and beginning worship of some new creature they find, specifically the karka. Then southsun cove could develop more because of it.

Zaxares – I think it is because of the line before the ‘eyes’ one “Consortium gives, but not to us.” Despite that never considered your interpretation and it does work even with the previous line. I wouldn’t put it past the consortium to be dealing supplies to both sides – war makes for great trade.

Also – as a separate bit – one would theorise that they are also either directly or indirectly behind the ruptures that occur. What do people think accident from whatever forces they are messing with or purposeful?

Zaxares.5419:

To the people saying that the Consortium don’t want Grawl refugees in Southsun, that wasn’t quite the impression I got. Talking to the Refugee Grawl Chieftain in LA reveals that the Consortium have been giving food and other goods to the Grawl as well, but the Grawl have refused any aid given to them by the Consortium. As the chieftain put it, “Their smiles do not touch their eyes. We do not eat food that they have touched.”

You should read the full line the grawl chieftain says: “Consortium gives, but not to us. Their smiles do not reach their eyes. We eat none of what they have touched.”

So no, they’re not helping the grawl, and the grawl see that the Consortium aren’t being honest so they don’t trust them.

The Dredge would actually prove to be a very powerful ally for the Flame Legion. Looking at the defense of the Black Citadel, it is very well protected from an exterior assault. From below however is another story. I think it would be completely plausible for the Dredge to either build tunnels below the Citadel to allow it to be attacked from within, or to create a giant sink hole below it and collapse and destroy a significant portion of the city. While this would benefit the Flame Legion a lot, I have no clue what the Dredge would get out of it, unless they’ve been enslaved.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Consortium gives, but not to us. “Their smiles do not reach their eyes. We eat none of what they have touched.”

I don’t think he means that literally. He is wiser than he appears. I reckon he means that the Consortium does not give out of charity but has some ulterior motive. Hence why he instructs the other Grawl not to eat what they give them; he doesn’t trust them.

I think its both. The Consortium doesn’t give to the grawl, and if the grawl see the Consortium handle others’ goods, they stay away from those as well.

Grawl are like humans, although 90% of them can be extremely stupid, there are those random few that are extremely wise and can see past a facade like the Consortium’s.

Curuniel.4830:

I, too, am intrigued. I associate the dredge with technology and the Flame Legion with magic, however there’s no reason why they couldn’t work together to get the best of both worlds (which that ascended item may be hinting at, some kind of fused technology). What I find odd is the dredge working with anyone. I doubt they’ve been forced or cowed by the Flame Legion, but I can’t think of any other reason why they’d help them. The politics behind this must be interesting (and possibly part of a large dredge rebellion story in the long term?).

I’m also amused and interested to see the Consortium jumping on the refugee issue – just helping their fellows out of the goodness of their heart, I’m sure. It’s possible that they just see people desperate enough to move to Southsun Cove and make it a little less miserable (boosting their optimistic tourist ventures), but I’m suspicious. I recently started wondering about other things the Consortium have their fingers in, and I won’t be surprised to find them continuing to scheme throughout this year’s event updates!

Maybe the Flame Legion have convinced the Dredge that Charr are essentially Dredge that live on the surface. While that’d be pretty hilarious that the concept would move along a Dredge/Flame alliance along quickly.

Specs.2195:

The Dredge would actually prove to be a very powerful ally for the Flame Legion. Looking at the defense of the Black Citadel, it is very well protected from an exterior assault. From below however is another story. I think it would be completely plausible for the Dredge to either build tunnels below the Citadel to allow it to be attacked from within, or to create a giant sink hole below it and collapse and destroy a significant portion of the city. While this would benefit the Flame Legion a lot, I have no clue what the Dredge would get out of it, unless they’ve been enslaved.

One of the Dredge leaders may have noticed what the centaur in Lion’s Arch talks about. Historically, the charr have been pretty isolationist if not outright aggressive even when it comes to their relative friends the norn, but if the High Legions are considering making formal alliances and putting their military might behind their allies, that would be looking very threatening to potential targets. So what the dredge may be getting out of this would be eliminating that threat before they start seeing Iron and Ash throwing their weight – and, possibly more importantly, organisation – behind the norn and Priory.

Oglaf.1074:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Consortium gives, but not to us. “Their smiles do not reach their eyes. We eat none of what they have touched.”

I don’t think he means that literally. He is wiser than he appears. I reckon he means that the Consortium does not give out of charity but has some ulterior motive. Hence why he instructs the other Grawl not to eat what they give them; he doesn’t trust them.

Yeah, I think the chieftain’s dialogue is a bit vague. Depending on your interpretation, it could either mean that the Consortium hasn’t been offering aid to the Grawl (and they don’t want it anyway), or the Consortium HAS been offering aid to the Grawl as well, but the Grawl have refused it.

Personally, I still lean towards the second interpretation as it might raise accusations of “favouritism” towards the Consortium, and their actions seem obviously calculated to raise their company’s battered reputation.

You could be right Zaxares but there is part of me that hopes that the Consortium are sort of speciest (if that is even a word). Arguably its a counter point to the Black Lion group but from what i can see we don’t get much of any nackground of the lion as they are more of a in game buying force rather than redaing about lore. What is the black lion’s background?

The word would be racist, technically speaking – I think… The term is at least used for differing species (often (falsely) used synonymously with races) in fantasy and science fiction fictions though in regards to discrimination against a particular species.

There’s a bit of lore on the Black Lion Trading Post – it’s a delivery, shop, and mail service, established(?) by the charr Evon Gnashblade who has a sylvari aide-de-camp (someone’s missing his Legions’ ranking system). Beyond that and where their HQ is located (where you can find Evon and his aide-de-camp), I don’t know personally but there may be more.

The Black Lion Trading Company does also have merchants which haul goods from one location to another, as evidenced by the Black Lion merchant caravan that gets ambushed by Draithor in Kessex Hills. It’s probably fair to say that the BLTC has several different arms that each specialise in a different service.

Thanks folks .. I suppose I see them more as bigoted rally – they will tradce with mose people but there are those (i.e ones that may not like the grawl in Lion’s Arch) that don’t. Where’s the profit in helping them..?
Part of my thinking, albeit twisted as it is, is to get the dredge and the charr together must have taken some foresight and/or desperation. I can understand the Dredge – Konig plus others have already mentioned we are not sure if its a splinter group or if teh Dredge are winning their uprising. So seeking an edge or partnering with the Charr would make sense.
But the Flame Legion .. I don’t understand that – again as explained in other thread posts the Flame Legion are about domination etc. So to join the Dredge (I know we are not sure of the dynamics yet) – had to mean they were extremely desperate or someone brought them together – to encourage to make that first step – to help negotiate.
But really my question do people see the Flame Legion joining forces, admittedly temporarily, and if so how/why? Would it just be a tactical reason i.e underground forces? Or would their leaders have something or someone in common?