Guild Wars 2

What are the expectations for Ebonhawke and what do we expect from the Separatists and Renegades (ironic how they share a common goal). I for one, loved Ascalon and all my human characters trace their lineage back to my Warrior who witnessed the searing and is now an Ascalonian Ghost Commander. I remembering reading on the creation of Ebonhawke and truly would love to see it expanded, heck, if GoM, HoD, and another Tier 7 world become merged I would love to see the world’s name become Ebonhawke, heh.

Every time I go to Ebonhawke I pretend to spit on Gwen’s grave. Good times.

Well I guess we get one story about it in GW1’s Beyond, if I remember correctly, the live said that they wanted to show how it was founded. Also there is the untold story of Evennia who went missing in Ascalon.

Ebonhawke is something of a doomed settlement. It was originally a last bastion for the citizens of Ascalon fleeing from the charr, then a last hold-out against the invaders. But now the humans and charr are moving toward peace; a peace that will end with the charr owning Ascalon.

Ultimately, Ebonhawke will probably have more charr living there than humans and will simply be absorbed into the charr territory.

Actually, Elias, Smodur seems to be giving up land to humans. If you go through Fields of Ruin, you’ll see that humans are progressively expanding northwards. I expect that in the end of the peace agreements, humans will be giving all land of Ascalon that lies between the Dragonbrand and the Blazeridge Mountains.

In the story, I expect the final signing of this agreement will be Commander Wade Samuelsson, only known descendant of the Ascalonian kings still living, will be given the reforged Magdaer and will take it to release the Foefire ghosts to end that threat.

I seriously doubt Ebonhawke will be assimilated by the charr. The humans are the only race with the money and experience to supply luxuries, which puts them at a huge economic advantage over the charr. Ebonhawke will more likely become a place where the humans sell goods to the charr, and the surrounding plains will probably grow into smaller townships as more humans move in to take advantage of the new economic vantage.

That’s true, and something I hadn’t considered. In that case, we’re be looking at a reborn Ascalon (New Ascalon?) to the south, with the charr nation to the north. Hopefully they actually name their nation something at some point. Charrtopia, maybe.

So, Ebonhawke is Ascalon’s 2nd chance?

Basically. It’s the last human stronghold that side of the shiverpeaks

endeavor.7530:

So, Ebonhawke is Ascalon’s 2nd chance?

There is a Ascalon Settlement at Gendarran Fields as well :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascalon_Settlement

Smodur seems to be playing a long game here – he knows that if peace is going to work, Ebonhawke needs to get something out of the deal as well as Kryta and the High Legions.

From his perspective, the strip of land between the Brand and the Blazeridge Mountains have probably become a real kitten to defend. The main external threat to the Ascalon region seems to be harpies and ogres coming down from the mountains, and the Dragonbrand on top of the existing internal problems like ghosts and Flame Legion are probably making any outposts in the area a pain to supply… unless they can be supplied through the Ebonhawke gate. Certainly, my impression in Blazeridge Steppes is that the charr control of the area east of the Dragonbrand has become rather tentative and, ironically enough, becomes more tentative the further away from Ebonhawke you go.

So what he’s probably planning to do if peace works is basically to delegate that whole area to Ebonhawke – with all of the priviliges as well as responsibilities that entails. If the peace fails in the short term, it wouldn’t require much for the Iron Legion to be able to sweep the Ebon Vanguard back to the ramparts of Ebonhawke. If the peace holds, he gets an ally with proven military tenacity to hold down his eastern flank in exchange for a border region the charr were having trouble holding down on their own. It’s really a win-win situation… or rather, one in which the worst-case scenario is going back to how things were before the truce.

loneknight.8425:

endeavor.7530:

So, Ebonhawke is Ascalon’s 2nd chance?

There is a Ascalon Settlement at Gendarran Fields as well :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascalon_Settlement

But that’s essentially a town of former Ascalonians in Kryta. It doesn’t really have the potential to grow into a new nation. I’m almost certain Jennah would object, for one thing, and their neighboring towns all seem to hate them for another.

Son of Elias.5420:

loneknight.8425:

endeavor.7530:

So, Ebonhawke is Ascalon’s 2nd chance?

There is a Ascalon Settlement at Gendarran Fields as well :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascalon_Settlement

But that’s essentially a town of former Ascalonians in Kryta. It doesn’t really have the potential to grow into a new nation. I’m almost certain Jennah would object, for one thing, and their neighboring towns all seem to hate them for another.

True, but the settlers do not intend to stay at the settlement permanently and long to reclaim Ascalon as their true home. If they have the resources, they will definitely join Ebonhawke to retake Ascalon from both fronts.

loneknight.8425:

Son of Elias.5420:

loneknight.8425:

endeavor.7530:

So, Ebonhawke is Ascalon’s 2nd chance?

There is a Ascalon Settlement at Gendarran Fields as well :

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascalon_Settlement

But that’s essentially a town of former Ascalonians in Kryta. It doesn’t really have the potential to grow into a new nation. I’m almost certain Jennah would object, for one thing, and their neighboring towns all seem to hate them for another.

True, but the settlers do not intend to stay at the settlement permanently and long to reclaim Ascalon as their true home. If they have the resources, they will definitely join Ebonhawke to retake Ascalon from both fronts.

Would they…? Ascalon Settlement (the town) was founded in Prophecies, so let’s see, 253 years before the present day in GW2. That seems pretty permanent to me. It was founded by refugees who chose to leave Ascalon before the charr totally conquered it, to make a new life in Kryta. I think they’re pretty assimilated now!

They technically aren’t even Ascalonian anymore. Everyone who lived there was born and raised in Kryta. Their families are there, their homes, farms, everything. Moreover, if you listen to them talk with each other, it’s mostly the older ones who talk about Ascalon – the ones who wouldn’t be able to go resettle it even if Ebonhawke expanded it’s territory.

If anything I would expect some of the Ascalonians in Rurikton to be the ones to resettle around Ebonhawke first, if only for the fact that they live in close proximity to the asura gate leading to Ebonhawke. Those in Ascalon Settlement who still regard themselves as Ascalonians first might return later. There will be those in both locations who will choose to stay as well, most likely those who are either unable or unwilling to return.

So it seems, Ascalonian Settlement in Kryta will be more of a diplomatic town (sort of like an embassy) only, it’s almost completely assimulated into Kryta. Ebonhawke, on the other hand, is supported through the efforst of Kryta, only because it’s human and more of a humanitarian thing. Basically, like the Allies supplying West Germany during the Berlin Crisis.

Actually the Ascalonian Settlement started more like a refugee camp. The people, who went there, while born in Ascalon, never wanted to go back. They fled from the Charr to start a new life (compare to the european settlers of america, though they fled from oppression, not war). I highly doubt that they see themselves as ascalonian after that many generations. They may hold up some traditions and names from their heritage, but they are by no means citizens of Ascalon.

Edit: Reworded a little

That’s less of a refugee camp and more like Little Tokyo in LA.

Curuniel.4830:

Would they…? Ascalon Settlement (the town) was founded in Prophecies, so let’s see, 253 years before the present day in GW2. That seems pretty permanent to me. It was founded by refugees who chose to leave Ascalon before the charr totally conquered it, to make a new life in Kryta. I think they’re pretty assimilated now!

After a few centuries, Kryta has yet to absorb the settlers, even if the settlers want to be part of it. This is shown in a debate between a couple of Ministers at Upper City in Divinity’s Reach, who are arguing about unwillingness to send more Seraphs to defend the settlement from centaurs’ attack, implied being it is not part of Kryta. Just like how refugees are generally unwelcome in real world, absorbing all Ascalons, not to mention Elonians & Canthans, can put a big strain on Kryta who has its own battles to fight.

Besides, looking at real world refugee situation, unless the settlers contend to remain status quo as nation-less, there is a likelihood they may take up arms to reclaim their homeland.

Makes sense, loneknight. It’s interesting to see the complexities between Kryta and Ascalonian descendants (I use that term since Ascalon technically doesn’t exist as a sovereign state anymore). Now, it would be really interesting to see the movement of the world progress to elaborate Ebonhawke’s purpose.

endeavor.7530:

Makes sense, loneknight. It’s interesting to see the complexities between Kryta and Ascalonian descendants (I use that term since Ascalon technically doesn’t exist as a sovereign state anymore). Now, it would be really interesting to see the movement of the world progress to elaborate Ebonhawke’s purpose.

Me too Not to go way off topic, I speculate (Warning: I suck at Bingo) that things will get interesting for humans & charrs after Jormag is defeated:

1. Presence of Norn in territories between Humans & Charrs will likely to diminish as they begin to return northward. Conflicts will arise as both races expand their territories, with Norn either play Switzerland or join in on both sides as mercenaries.

2. Ruins of Orr is essentially the next Antarctica once the risen threat is mostly taken of. Imo the map has plenty of encampments & vast open ground, which is ripe to evolve into a GvG (?) map, where each guild/nation will try to claim as many territory as possible.

Can’t wait for next expansion

On topics raised through this thread in sequence:

On trading: Humans may have an advantage in luxury goods, but charr certainly have an advantage in the product of industry, so trade there would be two-way. On the other hand, though, any trade is going to be hindered by the same thing that lead to peace in the first place – the Dragonbrand. Likely, trading would occur in Lion’s Arch or, if the peace grows stable enough, directly between Divinity’s Reach and the Black Citadel (lorewise the portals can link to anywhere, being point-to-point is just a mechanical thing).

From my reading of the discussion regarding sending troops to the Ascalon Settlement, it’s not a matter of it being viewed as non-Krytan – Nebo Terrace is also under threat and it’s definitely Krytan, and both are referred to as being “some of the oldest villages in the kingdom”. It’s more a question of simply not having the ability to do it (at the time – that particular conversation is probably set to not long after the Battle of Shaemoor).

Finally, the norn are unlikely to leave the southern Shiverpeaks if Jormag is defeated – what we see now is probably an unprecedented population density for the norn, and given the opportunity, they’d probably just spread out again. I also doubt you’d have humans and charr fighting over it because neither humans nor charr really want it, neither being particularly comfortable in such cold climates. If, hypothetically, the norn did abandon the area entirely, the whole area would probably either become a Priory protectorate or, if diplomatic relations could be normalised, turned over to the dredge.

It’s interesting, the relationship between Charr and Human. With the defeat of Ascalon, Humans are slowly coming to the realization that it’s a lost cause and appear to be building south. Now, didn’t the humans originate further east than Ascalon? It would be interesting to see what lies beyond the borders.

I thought humans came from Elona, originally, in the south. And then moved northward across what used to be the Crystal Sea. Further east, if I remember right, is the charr’s original homeland and is still their claimed territory.

Isn’t Ascalon the Iron Leigon homeland with the Northern part of Ascalon containing Fireheart Rise and the Citadel of Flame being the Flame Legion Homeland and area north of Ascalon and the Blazeridge Mountains being The Blood Legion Homelands?

I wonder where the Ash Legion homelands are?

draxynnic.3719:

From my reading of the discussion regarding sending troops to the Ascalon Settlement, it’s not a matter of it being viewed as non-Krytan – Nebo Terrace is also under threat and it’s definitely Krytan, and both are referred to as being “some of the oldest villages in the kingdom”. It’s more a question of simply not having the ability to do it (at the time – that particular conversation is probably set to not long after the Battle of Shaemoor).

You are right. My bad. It sure sound different when I heard it for first time :p

So I take it that ‘Ascalon Settlement’ is more of a namesake as commented by Son of Elias

Well… it was originally a settlement of Ascalonians in Kryta. But that was about 250 years ago. I think the only other townships from then that have survived are Beetletun, Nebo, and Shaemoor.

Keep in mind that Gendarron used to be called “North Kryta Province” – most of old Kryta was around the coastline, which means a lot of the settlements that predated the Searing got flooded out with the rise of Orr.

As for human origin – current indications are that the humans that founded Ascalon came from Orr. Tyria and Elona were initially settled at about the same time – Elona just seemed older in GW1 because it had had a dark age leaving ruins behind from before that dark age, which Tyrian humans kept it together better until the Guild Wars.

There have been developer interviews indicating that humans originally came to the world in a location south of Cantha, but there are also things in GW2 that suggest that Orr was inhabited by humans almost since the gods arrived – however, they didn’t start spreading out from Orr until around 200BE, about the same time the humans coming from the south started arriving on Tyrian and Elonian shores.

Ash Legion… we don’t know. They might not even have homelands per se, given their MO, instead being a nomadic culture.

loneknight.8425:

2. Ruins of Orr is essentially the next Antarctica once the risen threat is mostly taken of. Imo the map has plenty of encampments & vast open ground, which is ripe to evolve into a GvG (?) map, where each guild/nation will try to claim as many territory as possible.

Just you wait, when the Charr find oil there. :P

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Actually the Ascalonian Settlement started more like a refugee camp. The people, who went there, while born in Ascalon, never wanted to go back. They fled from the Charr to start a new life (compare to the european settlers of america, though they fled from oppression, not war).

Actually, they settled there to rebuild their strength and then retake their land from the charr, not to start a new life.

While some folks were probably more interested in starting a new life, the main point of Ascalon Settlement was to let the charr win, rebuild forces, then take “their” land back.

The problem with the plan is that their attempts to retake (Ebonhawke) hasn’t really worked out as planned.

loneknight.8425:

1. Presence of Norn in territories between Humans & Charrs will likely to diminish as they begin to return northward. Conflicts will arise as both races expand their territories, with Norn either play Switzerland or join in on both sides as mercenaries.
[…]
Can’t wait for next expansion

Well, given the individualistic aspect of the norn, I doubt they’ll just up and leave Hoelbrak as a whole. There will be norn returning up north, but not the whole culture. Similarly, nothing really indicates that the humans and charr will expand in means where they conflict with each other – especially given Jennah and Smodur’s interest in peace between the two races. And even if they do intend to expand territories, they have plenty of room to go that isn’t in conflict with each other – charr going east and humans going north.

And don’t you mean first expansion? :P

endeavor.7530:

Now, didn’t the humans originate further east than Ascalon? It would be interesting to see what lies beyond the borders.

Son of Elias.5420:

I thought humans came from Elona, originally, in the south. And then moved northward across what used to be the Crystal Sea.

You’re both wrong.

Humans came from another world, originally, and their first known location on the world of Tyria is in Cantha – about 300 years later, they appear on Orr and Elona (Istan and southern vallies of Elona) during the same year. Humans then spread north and east from there into Kryta, Ascalon, Kourna, and Vabbi – as well as the Crystal Sea. It was said by Jeff Grubb, a continuity writer for Anet, that humans may have arrived on the world further south than Cantha.

Charr come from east of the Blazeridge – as from The Ecology of the Charr: “the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains.” which indicates they moved north, west, and then south in an n shape. This land is currently held by the Blood Legion to our knowledge, per The Legions of the Charr: “East, across the Blazeridge Mountains, Imperator Bangar Ruinbringer controls the lands of the Blood Legion.”

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Isn’t Ascalon the Iron Leigon homeland with the Northern part of Ascalon containing Fireheart Rise and the Citadel of Flame being the Flame Legion Homeland and area north of Ascalon and the Blazeridge Mountains being The Blood Legion Homelands?

The Flame Legion don’t really have a homeland. By homeland, I mean current territories. They were forced into the Blazeridge Mountains and lost all their control and land to the other three legions (I presume what’s currently marked as Blood Legion Homelands was the Flame Legions’ territory) and they’ve been slowly invading over the years, creating a foothold in Fireheart Rise.

But Ascalon wasn’t originally charr land – it was grawl, at the very least. No known civilization lived there prior to the charr, but it is said that there were races there in The Ecology of the Charr: “The Charr subjugated or destroyed any and all who dared defy them within their territories; they were masters of all they surveyed. "

draxynnic.3719:

There have been developer interviews indicating that humans originally came to the world in a location south of Cantha, but there are also things in GW2 that suggest that Orr was inhabited by humans almost since the gods arrived – however, they didn’t start spreading out from Orr until around 200BE, about the same time the humans coming from the south started arriving on Tyrian and Elonian shores.

You mean 100 BE – humans spread from Orr under King Doric’s leadership, and he was crowned in 100 BE, the same year Ascalon was established as settlements.

As for the ascalonian settlement. What surprises me most is that they haven’t come up with a name after so many years. What also strike me is that Rurikton is called that way. Rurikton is the secontion where most ascalonians are settled cause of the presence of the asuragate leading to Ebonhawke. Ebonhawke was founded by the Ascalonians that stayed with King Adelbern and not by those that followed Rurik.

They still might see Rurik as a war hero. Even Adelbern’s Ghost wants to see him again, as seen in the Ascalon Catacombs story mode, IIRC. Yes, he was exiled in a fit of rage, but that doesn’t mean that Ascalonians held a grudge at him. He still saved houndreds if not thousands of lives with his actions, and was a well known hero even before his exile.

I don’t think it’s said Rurikton was established by or because of Ebonhawke.

It was established by Ascalonian refugees (just like Ascalon Settlement). Just because Ascalon Settlement (which is a name, btw, even if not very imaginative like Beetletun or Shaemoor) was the first established by those who left Ascalon with Rurik, doesn’t mean there weren’t other refugees – and even then, it certainly wouldn’t mean folks wouldn’t leave Ascalon Settlement for a place more secure.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Actually the Ascalonian Settlement started more like a refugee camp. The people, who went there, while born in Ascalon, never wanted to go back. They fled from the Charr to start a new life (compare to the european settlers of america, though they fled from oppression, not war).

Actually, they settled there to rebuild their strength and then retake their land from the charr, not to start a new life.

While some folks were probably more interested in starting a new life, the main point of Ascalon Settlement was to let the charr win, rebuild forces, then take “their” land back.

That seems weird to me Konig. When Ascalon Settlement was founded, humans still held Ascalon City and were still fighting against the charr. Sure it was post-Searing, but the kingdom wasn’t exactly lost. Wouldn’t the people who wanted to fight the charr have stayed and done so with, presumably, what remained of the national army? Those who followed Rurik to Kryta were basically acknowledging, to my mind, that Ascalon post-Searing was a lost cause. That’s something we know King Adelbern had problems accepting :P I don’t recall hearing anything from Ascalon refugees in Prophecies about intending to take the fight back to the charr one day.

As for Rurikton, Prince Rurik died to ensure that his group of Ascalonian refugees made it safely through the mountains and were able to seek refuge in Kryta. I think that’s a pretty good reason to name the Ascalon sector of the new human capital after him. He’s the reason Ascalonians could be there at all (well, him and the nameless PC who negotiated for the refugees after his death!).

Curuniel.4830:

That seems weird to me Konig. When Ascalon Settlement was founded, humans still held Ascalon City and were still fighting against the charr. Sure it was post-Searing, but the kingdom wasn’t exactly lost. Wouldn’t the people who wanted to fight the charr have stayed and done so with, presumably, what remained of the national army? Those who followed Rurik to Kryta were basically acknowledging, to my mind, that Ascalon post-Searing was a lost cause. That’s something we know King Adelbern had problems accepting :P I don’t recall hearing anything from Ascalon refugees in Prophecies about intending to take the fight back to the charr one day.

From Nolani Academy, end cinematic.

Prince Rurik: “Trumpets! The king must be near. The fall of Rin will have darkened his heart. Hail King Adelbern!”
King Adelbern: “Rise, my son. you have done well. The discovery of Stormcaller is surely a sign of victory.”
Prince Rurik: “It is a powerful weapon, but I fear not powerful enough. The Charr have amassed an army of many thousands.”
King Adelbern: “You overestimate these beasts, Rurik. Do not be afraid.”
Prince Rurik: “I am not afraid, father. I have seen them in battle. Rin has been destroyed! It would be wise to escape while we can. We should make for Kryta and rebuild our strength. Not wait here for death.”
King Adelbern: “I will never allow Ascalons to live in the shadow of the Krytans! It is Rin that will be rebuilt. And you will learn your place.”
Prince Rurik: “You have grown proud, Adelbern of Ascalon…proud and foolish!”
King Adelbern: “You would dare call your king a fool? I will hear no more. I banish you from Ascalon! You are no longer my prince, and you are no longer my son!”
Prince Rurik: “People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr.”

Rurik’s plan was to rebuild their strength in Kryta, then retake their land with said restrengthened troops.

To be honest, that seems to me more like a thing Rurik said, to make his plan look better in front of Adelbern. If they really wanted to get their home back, they would have tried, but they never did, atleast not as a whole group, maybe some individuals joined the vanguard in Ebonhawke, but apparently most of them were fine with starting a new life in Kryta.

I wouldn’t really say that. I mean, charr military is rather overpowering, and they’ve been constantly sending supplies to Ebonhawke. Not everyone can fight, you know, so its not like all the people who went to Kryta will just up and go into Ebonhawke. And obviously there would be those who remained in Kryta and gave up on Ascalon overall.

When I read dialogues, its mostly the nobles who aren’t going in to fight, or the deluded old people.

So the question is, what will become of Ebonhawke? Will it become, much later down the road, the new “Rin?”

endeavor.7530:

So the question is, what will become of Ebonhawke? Will it become, much later down the road, the new “Rin?”

I could see that happening.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You mean 100 BE – humans spread from Orr under King Doric’s leadership, and he was crowned in 100 BE, the same year Ascalon was established as settlements.

No, I mean after around 200BE, although I evidently forgot to put the word ‘after’ in. Precisely, 205BE.

Specifically, there is some stuff in Orr that indicates that there were humans in Orr pretty much from when the gods arrived (Lyssa’s backstory from the Orrian history Scroll, for instance) and that the first humans from Orr came directly from the place that humans were refugees from, not from the south. That suggests that the ‘humans appeared on the Tyrian continent’ listed in the timeline might not actually include Orr itself – while Ascalon was founded and Doric crowned in 100AE, humans may have started expanding from Orr before that.

In fact, when you think about it, Elonian culture was closer to Orrian culture than Canthan, so it’s likely that settlement of what would become the kingdom of Elona started from Orr.

The only bit that indicates humans were in Orr when the Six Gods arrived was the Orrian History Scroll’s entry for Dwayna – the one for Lyssa doesn’t give any sort of timeframe except “when Arah was finished” (which is of no benefit to us in placing or guessing on the timeline because we don’t know when it was finished except “before 1 BE”).

The Orrian History Scrolls, however, do give an indication for when humans began spreading from Orr – “Doric was the first king of Tyria. His kingdom encompassed the lands we now know as Orr, Ascalon and Kryta. According to the ancient scroll. all human royalty descends from this first king. Doric created the human system of governance: he sheltered his people, first in Orr, then as the population grew, sent them out into Tyria with his blessing.”

Even if humans spread before King Doric was crowned, in order for them to spread with his blessing, he’d have to be both alive and a figure of power – though we don’t have a birth date for him, one would find it hard to imagine he lived for more than 140 years (the earliest known date for his lifespan is 115 BE, when he was Dwayna’s charge, and I personally find it hard to believe he was such as a child or teenager, placing him to have been born no later, I would imagine, than 135 BE).

So it appears that Orr or South of Cantha… which would be north of Tyria technically according to the map I always see Konig use. Though humans started migrating from there, they’re not originally from there but another world with the Mists connecting?

That doesn’t really say that humans weren’t starting to spread before Doric. – they just would have done so without his blessing and without being part of his kingdom (unless later absorbed).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Curuniel.4830:

That seems weird to me Konig. When Ascalon Settlement was founded, humans still held Ascalon City and were still fighting against the charr. Sure it was post-Searing, but the kingdom wasn’t exactly lost. Wouldn’t the people who wanted to fight the charr have stayed and done so with, presumably, what remained of the national army? Those who followed Rurik to Kryta were basically acknowledging, to my mind, that Ascalon post-Searing was a lost cause. That’s something we know King Adelbern had problems accepting :P I don’t recall hearing anything from Ascalon refugees in Prophecies about intending to take the fight back to the charr one day.

From Nolani Academy, end cinematic.

Prince Rurik: “Trumpets! The king must be near. The fall of Rin will have darkened his heart. Hail King Adelbern!”
King Adelbern: “Rise, my son. you have done well. The discovery of Stormcaller is surely a sign of victory.”
Prince Rurik: “It is a powerful weapon, but I fear not powerful enough. The Charr have amassed an army of many thousands.”
King Adelbern: “You overestimate these beasts, Rurik. Do not be afraid.”
Prince Rurik: “I am not afraid, father. I have seen them in battle. Rin has been destroyed! It would be wise to escape while we can. We should make for Kryta and rebuild our strength. Not wait here for death.”
King Adelbern: “I will never allow Ascalons to live in the shadow of the Krytans! It is Rin that will be rebuilt. And you will learn your place.”
Prince Rurik: “You have grown proud, Adelbern of Ascalon…proud and foolish!”
King Adelbern: “You would dare call your king a fool? I will hear no more. I banish you from Ascalon! You are no longer my prince, and you are no longer my son!”
Prince Rurik: “People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr.”

Rurik’s plan was to rebuild their strength in Kryta, then retake their land with said restrengthened troops.

How in the world did you infer that from the Nolani mission cinematic. “A new Life, Free of the Charr” in no way implies what you suggest. What you bolded was advice.. given by Rurik, that led to his banishment and disownment.

They were refugees, making a new home, led by a disowned and banished Prince.

Nothing about the flight of farmers and common citizens to safety implies rebuilding and retaking Ascalon. The entire cinematic context matters, as well as the actual flight of what was in NO way an army retreating to build strength. The missions that follow this clearly show that.

At the moment, we’re basically trying to read Rurik’s mind when it really could be either. His intent could have been simply to leave preserving whatever he could of the Ascalonian people and culture upon realising that Adelbern was going to drag down most of the nation with his unwinnable strategy, or he could have been intending to come back.

Being a member of the blood royal, I doubt Rurik would have been satisfied just letting his people assimilate into Kryta and be made irrelevant himself (especially while Kryta was under the control of the White Mantle). However, Leeroyesque AI aside, Rurik seemed to be reasonably smart – he probably realised that his refugees simply didn’t have the numbers to drive out the charr and that Ascalonian army that did come back over the Shiverpeaks to reclaim Ascalon from the charr would have to be a future generation. So it’s possible that both statements are accurate – Rurik intended that he or a descendant would return, but he knew that the majority of those he brought with him would not be returning.

endeavor.7530:

So it appears that Orr or South of Cantha… which would be north of Tyria technically according to the map I always see Konig use. Though humans started migrating from there, they’re not originally from there but another world with the Mists connecting?

Cantha is definitely south of Tyria, not north. I don’t know how you get otherwise. There’s an entire hemisphere between south of Cantha and north of Tyria.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

How in the world did you infer that from the Nolani mission cinematic. “A new Life, Free of the Charr” in no way implies what you suggest. What you bolded was advice.. given by Rurik, that led to his banishment and disownment.

They were refugees, making a new home, led by a disowned and banished Prince.

Nothing about the flight of farmers and common citizens to safety implies rebuilding and retaking Ascalon. The entire cinematic context matters, as well as the actual flight of what was in NO way an army retreating to build strength. The missions that follow this clearly show that.

There was a fairly large enough group of (former) Ascalonian army members joining in the flight, and plenty of folks remains to help safe passage of later refugees. Not everyone who left were farmers and citizens.

But at this point, it’s as drax said, and we’ll just have to disagree with our interpretation of Rurik’s words and actions.

Konig, can you please upload the map? I’m afraid I need a reference, I think I’m missing an entire continent but here’s the thing; the world is a sphere and thus wraps around, so whatever continent that is…

I expect this is the world map Konig is referring too. You see Cantha there, as part of a larger southern continent just above what would be Antarctica on Earth, while Elona and Tyria are more of a European set-up in terms of placement.

Why are there 3 other zones being marked on that map?

@endeavor: While yes, if you go south and continue that direction, you’ll eventually reach north of your original placement, however once you reach the South Pole, you’re no longer going south but north (and then once you reach the North Pole, you’re heading south again).

As for map – I wasn’t really referring to any map in my last post, but the fact we know Cantha is south of Tyria. Though Elias did post the best reference to a world map we have.

@Son of Elias: Yes, that’s the map I refer to when talking about continent placements (though as said I didn’t refer to any map in my last post) – however, linking the clean version would probably be less confusing to some folks (you know, those extra boxes of fan speculation). However, we knew that Cantha was south of Tyria LONG before that map texture was found in GW2. We knew it was south of Tyria since we knew of Cantha back when Factions was getting the public spotlight.

@Cerbeius: Fan speculation of possible future expansions. Just as fans added the boxes around Tyria, Elona, and Cantha, and put the GW1/GW2 maps over their respective places on that map. You can pretty much ignore the boxes.

Thanks for the info, Konig ^^