Elona and Cantha

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

So im back, I’ve been looking for pathways between Elona and Tyria via the domain of anguish, and I’ve found it. The gate of anguish has a portal leading directly to the Chantry of secrets in Elona. https://i.gyazo.com/bd4f71c4c99780f0b51a398c5c3f1556.jpg
The explorable area accessible from the gate of anguish is the foundry of failed creations. Within the foundry of failed creations is the door of Komalie, we know from the original guild wars campaign that the door of Komalie exits at the ring of fire islands. It is reasonable to assume that this is the order’s means of transit between Elona and Tyria. https://i.gyazo.com/125f4ce6dd17e1fe406072c8614ec798.png

That’s a quite interesting theory. There are a couple of main flaws in it, though:

First, the Ring of Fire is another region that was at least previously out of reach due to Zhaitan blocking the route.

Second, most of the portals to the god realms stopped being accessible as the gods did. It’s likely that the portal in the Chantry of Secrets went the same way. If not, that implies that it’s likely that the Order of Whispers still has close access to direct servants of Kormir and/or the Forgotten as well, and that’s pretty big.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: EdwinLi.1284

EdwinLi.1284

But nothing even indicates that the DSD would have territory in or around Cantha. There is, quite literally, NOTHING that indicates such.

calm down. It is just a hypothesis I have considering we don’t know how Cantha has been surviving unharmed for all these years.

We yet to know how much DSD reach is and so far only two Elder dragon we know that have the ability to reach Cantha is Zhaitan and DSD due to the Ocean being the only thing that is cutting them off.

Zhaitan is removed but DSD current remains unknown but may be the only one that can reach Cantha.

DSD only expands his army through bodies of water such as rivers and lakes. If the Emperor of Cantha has some secret deal with DSD then of course there would be no hints of DSD having influence. The Emperor, after all, wants to keep Cantha a Pure Human society so anything that would cause them to reach out towards the outside would be something that ruins their Human Society the Ministry of Purity built since their isolation.

(edited by EdwinLi.1284)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: narwhalsbend.7059

narwhalsbend.7059

So im back, I’ve been looking for pathways between Elona and Tyria via the domain of anguish, and I’ve found it. The gate of anguish has a portal leading directly to the Chantry of secrets in Elona. https://i.gyazo.com/bd4f71c4c99780f0b51a398c5c3f1556.jpg
The explorable area accessible from the gate of anguish is the foundry of failed creations. Within the foundry of failed creations is the door of Komalie, we know from the original guild wars campaign that the door of Komalie exits at the ring of fire islands. It is reasonable to assume that this is the order’s means of transit between Elona and Tyria. https://i.gyazo.com/125f4ce6dd17e1fe406072c8614ec798.png

You only get to the Gate of Anguish through Kormir. The gate in the outpost itself is probably more tied to Kormir than being a physical gate.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

We yet to know how much DSD reach is and so far only two Elder dragon we know that have the ability to reach Cantha is Zhaitan and DSD due to the Ocean being the only thing that is cutting them off.

Zhaitan is removed but DSD current remains unknown but may be the only one that can reach Cantha.

Actually, nothing says that the DSD cut off contact with Cantha, as the earliest interference we’ve had from the DSD came from the krait and quaggan 50 years ago.

Thus far, we’ve only seen the DSD affecting the underwater dwellers.

As for location, we can make an approximation of its location – both current and original. In fact, we can even create an approximation of the original southern quaggan kingdom as well as the krait homeland. People presume otherwise because they forget certain facts. Let’s start with those wide-known:

  1. The Movement of the World states that the DSD’s territory is ‘every river and lake’.
    • Issue: The Movement of the World was written by a Tyrian, “was revised multiple times,”: and there’s no influence of the DSD in Tyria. Makes the situation suspicious.
  2. The Movement of the World states that the DSD awoke in the ‘deepest part of the sea’.
    • Question: Which sea? Sea of Sorrows? Clashing Seas? Something else?
  3. Approximately 50 years ago, the krait forced out the quaggan from their homelands. The krait, in turn, were fleeing from something. The quaggan and hylek attribute this to the Elder Dragons’ influence. Angel McCoy indirectly confirmed that the krait fled from the DSD.
  4. Most recently, largos and karka have shown up on Central Tyria presumably due to the DSD’s power. Karka specifically have been stated to avoid Orr due to recognition of dragon influence – since they don’t seem to hold a rich and long historical knowledge, this can only indicate seeing dragon influence in their lifespan.
  5. The DSD’s orb in The Machine’s cinematic lights up first. With the possibly exception of this orb, all other orbs light up in order of awakening.
    • If one were to note that all ED that awoke had a champion to wake them sans Kralkatorrik (Primordus had the Great Destroyer and awoke 50 years late due to its death; Jormag had Drakkar and awoke ‘on time’; Zhaitan had the Giganticus Lupicus and awoke ‘on time’; Kralkatorrik had none and awoke 100 years after Big Z; Mordremoth had Scarlet), one can conclude that Primordus and the DSD likely awoke close to each other like Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth, placing the DSD’s awakening only a few years after Primordus’.
    • This in turn means that the DSD has been awake for 200 years but only had notable-to-Centra-Tyria activity for the past 50. What has he been doing for 150 years?
  6. Given that the quaggan and krait fled into the Sea of Sorrows rather than Janthir Bay, they lived south of Central Tyria.

Thus far, this doesn’t really give much. But this is where we add in knowledge people don’t often take into account:

  1. Before fleeing their homeland, the krait lived not far from human sea trades. Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mostly_Harmless_Quaggan“That changed 50 years ago, with the invasion of their territories by the krait. This slave-keeping, aquatic race had been denizens of deep trenches, but they suddenly erupted into traditionally quaggan lands, destroying their civilization.”
    • We see the rough placement (direct straight lines) of human trade routes on this map
    • Krait also lived in the deepest trenches of the seas. Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait“The slaves are allowed small fires in which to cook their allotment of fish; sometimes the light from their flames can be seen for miles, warning away ships that might pass too near krait waters.”
    • Trade routes between Cantha and Elona are stated to contain hidden reefs, indicating shallow waters. Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Corsair (Nightfall manual, Corsair entry) – “Between the northwest coast of Cantha and the southern rim of Elona, a deadly sea is troubled by sudden storms and cyclones, hidden reefs, and dangerous sea creatures.”
  2. Given first list, we know the DSD influenced the aquatic races in this order: Krait -> Quaggan -> Karka -> Largos
    • Karka were influenced before Largos despite us seeing largos sooner due to the fact that karka fled their homeland while largos are still fighting them. Both largos and quaggan know of karka so the karka lived primarily inbetween the two species’ homelands.
    • Largos knew of krait because, while krait homelands were furthest out given this order-of-attack, the krait would often make raiding parties on the coastlines thus they would pass ‘above’ largos territory.
  3. Humans didn’t know of quaggan, indicating that they either never surfaced or were not near human trade routes.

To summarize the list above, we can conclude:

  • The DSD has been awake for approximately 150 years. Since humans haven’t known of the DSD since it woke, it had no interaction with the surface around human trade routes until after Zhaitan’s rise 100 years ago. Its first 50 years were either far from human trade routes, or fully submerged.
  • The krait were closest of the four aquatic races to where the DSD woke up, but held against it until 50 years ago. According to the Shadows in the Water article and comments by Angel McCoy, the DSD was the first loss to the krait civilization in large. Either they held their ground for 100 years, or did not interact with the DSD until 50 years ago.
  • The DSD did not wake up between Cantha and Elona. With hidden reefs, those waters would be shallow. Between Cantha and Tyria is equally unlikely, given the presence of the Battle Isles making a good portion of that too shallow – the DSD’s influence would have been denoted!
  • We can cut out the entire northern hemisphere for the DSD’s location – it’s either too close, or too north to make fleeing into the Sea of Sorrows a logical choice; quaggans would have just swam past to land in Elona or further into Cantha, presuming they wouldn’t land on the western Maguuman coastline.
    • Similarly, we can cut out the eastern hemisphere; quaggans would have just landed on Elona if they fled northwest. The only reason the DSD would wake up in the eastern hemisphere would be if it then traveled solely west until it reached the western hemisphere – not likely unless it was already close to the western hemisphere and was attracted by something (say, dense population or magic).
    • Note: These two end up reducing the entire world to more-or-less one quarter for the DSD’s location.

Thus, we have this map of the DSD’s placements! Map legend:

  • Light blue line = Northern hemisphere cut off; couldn’t logically be north of the line
  • Light red line = Eastern hemisphere cut off; couldn’t logically be east of line
  • Yellow line = Too shallow waters near trade.
  • Green lines = Likely approximation of krait lands.
  • Dark blue lines = Likely approximation of quaggan lands.
  • Purple lines = Likely approximation of largos lands.
  • Dark red circle = Likely placement of DSD’s awakening.
  • Dark red arrows = Likely movement of DSD’s sphere.

Attachments:

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

In conclusion to above post:

This is naturally just a rough estimation, but I think that given all our facts this is the most likely scenario to occur.

What’s interesting, as I found out after putting the map together, is that where I place the DSD’s likely place of rising is more or less the same place that the Durmand Priory’s map (note: aside from the Inquest and quaggan, the Durmand Priory are the only folks who have information on the DSD – the Movement of the World being written by one of their prominent members) has an sea serpent design. A subtle hint from the developers on the mysteries of the DSD, perhaps?

In regards to the arrows, I only listed those we can obviously make part on. Naturally, the DSD could spread its forces elsewhere. It’s movements marked seem to be following civilizations and otherwise high body count locations though, starting with the deepest dwellers – krait, quaggan, and karka.

It’s potentially possible that there is another reasoning for this movement – aside from the fact that developers wanted its influence in Tyria while providing far-flung refugees (quaggan): Krait obelisks and Bloodstones. The krait obelisks have been stated to be very akin to the bloodstones, which hold a high amount of magic. Bloodstones would no doubt hold interest to the Elder Dragons who consume magic. If this is so, then there’d be no reason for the DSD to divert its forces in other directions.

If its movements are based on populated locations though, there’s no reason why it wouldn’t send some of its forces south just as Zhaitan had been sending his forces both north (which we faced the brunt of) and south towards Elona.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: EdwinLi.1284

EdwinLi.1284

Well looking at your mapping most of DSD activity is at the southwestern locations.

Though I wonder how much spread out is DSD influence since so far the path you made seem to show that DSD is moving more towards Tyria.

However, it still a bit odd how DSD avoided having his influence spread to Cantha. The path in the map makes it appear as if something is luring DSD to Tyria slowly or something may be keeping it from having interests in Cantha.

As for the refugees from the Deep Sea, we can also assume they did not all fleed to Tyria only. Some may have fleed to Elona or Cantha as well but for now we lack any info if any refugees made it to Elona or Cantha.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Like I said in my second post, I only denoted the path to Tyria because that’s the information we have. It’s possible for the DSD to have spread out in multiple directions naturally, but we have no way of telling. IF the DSD went towards Cantha, it’d be recent – within the past 50 years by my estimation if my map is anywhere close to correct.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

One possible reason could be that Cantha is the home of dragons. If all the dragons of Cantha are also thaumovores, then they could have been eating up enough of the magic of Cantha to both keep themselves in check (through competing with one another) and keeping the area from being interesting to the Elder Dragons. With this sort of ecology, then its possible that the first dragons to leave Cantha’s shores found a smorgasboard of magic in the rest of the world, allowing them to grow much larger and more powerful and, ultimately, for the most successful of them to become Elder Dragons.

This might also, incidentally, explain why there are hints that dwarves and forgotten at least once inhabited Cantha, but there are few large-scale ruins: We’re told that the elder races (except the mursaat) were hidden from the Elder Dragons by Glint, but not how. It’s possible that the way she did so was taking them to a place that she knew the Elder Dragons avoided because younger dragons gobbled up most of the magic leaving the land bland and uninteresting to the Elder Dragons. The elder races would then have hidden in Cantha until the dragons left – and then returned to their homelands.

Further extrapolating, in fact, it might also explain why the prehuman ruins we do know of are in Echovald: it’s a part of Cantha that has few if any even of the smaller dragons (although Dragon Moss and such may be smaller relatives of Mordremoth…), but may be close enough that it’s still protected by the low-magic zone created by the Saltsprays, Rockhides, and any other dragon varieties that may be present.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: EdwinLi.1284

EdwinLi.1284

I don’t think the dragons of Cantha eats magic.

However, there could be other reasons why Cantha would no longer be interesting to the Elder Dragons.

One hypothesis I have is that the Ministry of Purity and Canthan Emperor erased the existence of Magic from Canthan society so current Cantha may no longer have Magic users and citizens may think Magic as a myth or legend.

No magic users would mean less demand to create and use magic powered items which would lower the amount of magic in a area for the Elder Dragons to eat.

We know before they were cut off 100 years ago that they still traded with the outside
so they may have gained Engineer knowledge to advance their life without the dependency of Magic.

A lot of things can happen within generations of isolation and 100 years after all.

(edited by EdwinLi.1284)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

That’s unlikely. The Zephyrites recently visited them, in 1327 AE, and it wasn’t the first time either by their indication. Furthermore, the Zephyrites consistency mostly of Canthan and Elonian individuals and while they were formed no less than 200 years ago, couldn’t have gotten to their current numbers with only the original Canthans and Elonians, especially since they haven’t been blockaded like naval travel to Cantha. So via the Zephyrites, Canthans would know of magic, and likely of the Elder Dragons too.

As for Canthan dragons not consuming magic, I also find that unlikely. Kuunavang was stated to be similar to Glint and Rotscale, even after we learned Glint’s origin from Edge of Destiny. And it was always “dragons consume magic” never “Elder Dragons consume magic” – perhaps a minor distinction that can be waved off, but what if it isn’t? It would explain why Glint could become an Elder Dragon, and if she were a normal dragon before corruption by Kralkatorrik – as we know she existed in some form with free will before being Kralkatorrik’s champion – then why wouldn’t there be more? Not just theoriginal bodies of GW1’S bone dragon’s (including Rotscale), but others, such as Saltspray Dragons if no others.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Crixler.2857

Crixler.2857

If the Krait are from so far away from Tyria, what were they doing on the Tarnished Coast in GW1?

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Why couldn’t they?

It’s clear that wasn’t the full scope of their civilization or even a primary portion given that they lived in the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean – such a location wouldn’t be close to any shore, really.

To quote from the lore blog post on the krait: They have no need of anything land-dwellers can give them, other than slaves for their use and sacrifices for their rituals. However, the krait can seize those for themselves—with ruthless efficiency.

This, as well as historic quarrels with hylek, implies that the krait are known coastal raiders. So I would see their presence on the Tarnished Coast in GW1 akin to vikings in Europe.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

Why don’t we use the Dredge tunnel to Cantha?

Elona is Love, Elona is life.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Diovid.9506

Diovid.9506

Why don’t we use the Dredge tunnel to Cantha?

Several reasons, I’d assume:

1. The dredge won’t let us.
2. Primordus.
3. We have enough to deal with in the continent of Tyria as it is.

Possibly more reasons beyond those.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Why don’t we use the Dredge tunnel to Cantha?

Several reasons, I’d assume:

1. The dredge won’t let us.
2. Primordus.
3. We have enough to deal with in the continent of Tyria as it is.

Possibly more reasons beyond those.

I’ll throw in reason 4: It’s likely collasped due to natural or purposeful reasons.

I’d see them destroying the tunnels after leaving to keep the stone summit from following them possibly. Or that they’d use the tunnels to escape the “anti everything that isn’t human” movement that Cantha went through, and collaspe the tunnels to safeguard their kitten.

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: Yumiko Ishida.3769

Yumiko Ishida.3769

We yet to know how much DSD reach is and so far only two Elder dragon we know that have the ability to reach Cantha is Zhaitan and DSD due to the Ocean being the only thing that is cutting them off.

Zhaitan is removed but DSD current remains unknown but may be the only one that can reach Cantha.

Actually, nothing says that the DSD cut off contact with Cantha, as the earliest interference we’ve had from the DSD came from the krait and quaggan 50 years ago.

Thus far, we’ve only seen the DSD affecting the underwater dwellers.

As for location, we can make an approximation of its location – both current and original. In fact, we can even create an approximation of the original southern quaggan kingdom as well as the krait homeland. People presume otherwise because they forget certain facts. Let’s start with those wide-known:

  1. The Movement of the World states that the DSD’s territory is ‘every river and lake’.
    • Issue: The Movement of the World was written by a Tyrian, “was revised multiple times,”: and there’s no influence of the DSD in Tyria. Makes the situation suspicious.
  2. The Movement of the World states that the DSD awoke in the ‘deepest part of the sea’.
    • Question: Which sea? Sea of Sorrows? Clashing Seas? Something else?
  3. Approximately 50 years ago, the krait forced out the quaggan from their homelands. The krait, in turn, were fleeing from something. The quaggan and hylek attribute this to the Elder Dragons’ influence. Angel McCoy indirectly confirmed that the krait fled from the DSD.
  4. Most recently, largos and karka have shown up on Central Tyria presumably due to the DSD’s power. Karka specifically have been stated to avoid Orr due to recognition of dragon influence – since they don’t seem to hold a rich and long historical knowledge, this can only indicate seeing dragon influence in their lifespan.
  5. The DSD’s orb in The Machine’s cinematic lights up first. With the possibly exception of this orb, all other orbs light up in order of awakening.
    • If one were to note that all ED that awoke had a champion to wake them sans Kralkatorrik (Primordus had the Great Destroyer and awoke 50 years late due to its death; Jormag had Drakkar and awoke ‘on time’; Zhaitan had the Giganticus Lupicus and awoke ‘on time’; Kralkatorrik had none and awoke 100 years after Big Z; Mordremoth had Scarlet), one can conclude that Primordus and the DSD likely awoke close to each other like Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth, placing the DSD’s awakening only a few years after Primordus’.
    • This in turn means that the DSD has been awake for 200 years but only had notable-to-Centra-Tyria activity for the past 50. What has he been doing for 150 years?
  6. Given that the quaggan and krait fled into the Sea of Sorrows rather than Janthir Bay, they lived south of Central Tyria.

Thus far, this doesn’t really give much. But this is where we add in knowledge people don’t often take into account:

  1. Before fleeing their homeland, the krait lived not far from human sea trades. Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mostly_Harmless_Quaggan“That changed 50 years ago, with the invasion of their territories by the krait. This slave-keeping, aquatic race had been denizens of deep trenches, but they suddenly erupted into traditionally quaggan lands, destroying their civilization.”
    • We see the rough placement (direct straight lines) of human trade routes on this map
    • Krait also lived in the deepest trenches of the seas. Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait“The slaves are allowed small fires in which to cook their allotment of fish; sometimes the light from their flames can be seen for miles, warning away ships that might pass too near krait waters.”
    • Trade routes between Cantha and Elona are stated to contain hidden reefs, indicating shallow waters. Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Corsair (Nightfall manual, Corsair entry) – “Between the northwest coast of Cantha and the southern rim of Elona, a deadly sea is troubled by sudden storms and cyclones, hidden reefs, and dangerous sea creatures.”
  2. Given first list, we know the DSD influenced the aquatic races in this order: Krait -> Quaggan -> Karka -> Largos
    • Karka were influenced before Largos despite us seeing largos sooner due to the fact that karka fled their homeland while largos are still fighting them. Both largos and quaggan know of karka so the karka lived primarily inbetween the two species’ homelands.
    • Largos knew of krait because, while krait homelands were furthest out given this order-of-attack, the krait would often make raiding parties on the coastlines thus they would pass ‘above’ largos territory.
  3. Humans didn’t know of quaggan, indicating that they either never surfaced or were not near human trade routes.

To summarize the list above, we can conclude:

  • The DSD has been awake for approximately 150 years. Since humans haven’t known of the DSD since it woke, it had no interaction with the surface around human trade routes until after Zhaitan’s rise 100 years ago. Its first 50 years were either far from human trade routes, or fully submerged.
  • The krait were closest of the four aquatic races to where the DSD woke up, but held against it until 50 years ago. According to the Shadows in the Water article and comments by Angel McCoy, the DSD was the first loss to the krait civilization in large. Either they held their ground for 100 years, or did not interact with the DSD until 50 years ago.
  • The DSD did not wake up between Cantha and Elona. With hidden reefs, those waters would be shallow. Between Cantha and Tyria is equally unlikely, given the presence of the Battle Isles making a good portion of that too shallow – the DSD’s influence would have been denoted!
  • We can cut out the entire northern hemisphere for the DSD’s location – it’s either too close, or too north to make fleeing into the Sea of Sorrows a logical choice; quaggans would have just swam past to land in Elona or further into Cantha, presuming they wouldn’t land on the western Maguuman coastline.
    • Similarly, we can cut out the eastern hemisphere; quaggans would have just landed on Elona if they fled northwest. The only reason the DSD would wake up in the eastern hemisphere would be if it then traveled solely west until it reached the western hemisphere – not likely unless it was already close to the western hemisphere and was attracted by something (say, dense population or magic).
    • Note: These two end up reducing the entire world to more-or-less one quarter for the DSD’s location.

Thus, we have this map of the DSD’s placements! Map legend:

  • Light blue line = Northern hemisphere cut off; couldn’t logically be north of the line
  • Light red line = Eastern hemisphere cut off; couldn’t logically be east of line
  • Yellow line = Too shallow waters near trade.
  • Green lines = Likely approximation of krait lands.
  • Dark blue lines = Likely approximation of quaggan lands.
  • Purple lines = Likely approximation of largos lands.
  • Dark red circle = Likely placement of DSD’s awakening.
  • Dark red arrows = Likely movement of DSD’s sphere.

I know where Cantha, Elona and Ring of Fire Island Chain are, but what are the other continents? They all seem to be named in this image (and the original), can anyone translate the New Krytan?

Never mind, found one! http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Tyria_world_fan_map.jpg

The other continents and various far off locations have very weird and arbitrary names to them.

Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.

(edited by Yumiko Ishida.3769)

Elona and Cantha

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Posted by: EdwinLi.1284

EdwinLi.1284

well originally we were going to those other nations in GW1 but that changed when GW2 began development.

GW Utopia would have taken place in one of those places with the Chronomancer Profession as a new Profession.