Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

jheryn.8390:

draxynnic.3719:

jheryn.8390:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

jheryn.8390:

5. What happened to the various different undead? Hell Hound, Necrid Horsemen, Ghouls, Bone Dragons, Executioners

Wiped out when the first Orrian undead were taken care of.

This is probably the only one I don’t agree with. They may have been wiped out in Tyria, but they should still be crawling all over Orr. Orr, I am sure had horsemen, dogs, clerics, etc. Maybe the clerics and executioners could be now known as shamans/priests and abominations, but the horsemen and hell hounds should still be there.

One reasonably common theory is that the Vizier may have selectively grabbed what he thought would be the most powerful undead for his force – including the dragons, cavalry, and Orr’s standing army in general. This would also explain why Zhaitan’s army seems to have so little in the way of conventional soldiery (you also don’t see any archers in Zhaitan’s army but Khilbron’s was full of them, for instance).

Ok, I can buy this, but completely wiped out without running into ANY in Orr? I’m not quite buying that. The Vizier surely would have picked up one of the undead giants too would he not. I’m not complaining, it just seems to be a little inconsistent. I think maybe developers were a little more worried about they types of undead they needed in Orr rather than continuity with undead in GW1.

I’m with the theory that they were all taken out of Orr at the time, which seems to be the case. Because otherwise, we’d be seeing Bone Dragons too – but there’s a huge difference between the Bone Dragons (which lacked flesh more or less) and the dragon champions.

As to the giants: not all of the Risen in Orr are from Orr. Keep in mind that the Risen bring in shipments of corpses for corruption. And then there’s those like the corsairs who wandered into Orr after Khilbron was dead, taking refuge in the shattered islands.

I still can’t get on board with this one. The giant thing, yes. The all taken at one time thing, no. It seems more than unlikely that the common ones like ghouls and hell hounds would not still be there.

And if he is making undead giants, why isn’t he making more hell hounds and ghouls. I’m sure they could import dead ones of those as well.

Tuomir.1830:

Regardless of Mazdak’s lineage, you, too, agree that Doric was considered the king of Tyrian humans at the time, is what I’m reading.

Not so much agreeing as saying “it’s possible, but equally not so” – if Doric was a “high king” figure, I suspect he’d have been king over the Margonites too – or at least certainly above the Margonite king. And I’d suspect there was a king of Orr (as Doric seemed to have kept himself in Ascalon, given that Orr had to claim independence, Doric was crowned in Ascalon, and Doric made a trek to Arah from somewhere, yet anywhere in Orr isn’t all that far for some renowned “trek”).

Tuomir.1830:

I don’t see how I stated my theory is wrong – the quest dialogue states that both were corrupted and released horrors to their lands, not that they went power mad. You can assume the case, but it doesn’t make it a necessarily true, since there’s more than one way of being corrupt, especially when magic is involved. The way I see the events having played out, Doric would have used the staff’s power to protect his kingdom, relying increasingly on it and unwittingly releasing the mentioned horrors. That could be seen as corruption, especially since the one telling us about them is found in Desolation, and probably didn’t witness the Tyrian side of the events.

Corrupted, in this case, is meaning that they’re going, effectively, power mad. This isn’t like the Elder Dragon corruption or whathaveyou, it just means tat they turned evil(ish). Whether you call that power mad or not, you’re still stating that Doric remained benevolent and defensive the entire time – aka, while not stating it explicitly, what you’re saying means the same thing as Doric didn’t become corrupted by the staves’ power (“mad with power” as I put it, same meaning in the end, different vocab).

Tuomir.1830:

I stretch just as much as I need to in order to cover the ground between my points. It doesn’t take away from the value of the points the connections are based on.

Actually, it does. The more you stretch plausibilities, the less likely things are to be. I could argue all day for why humans on Tyria came from Earth, but it’d just be a bunch of stretching facts in a completely possible but completely unfounded way. Same as what you’re doing now.

And such stretching almost never turn out to be the case.

Tuomir.1830:

Except we don’t know whose crypt it was that the Scepter was found in. And as such, is could be practically anyone who isn’t known to be buried elsewhere.

So it could be where King Jadon is buried too.

This is no different than saying “humanity came from Earth because it’s never been said that they didn’t!”

Tuomir.1830:

But, by now you’ve succeeded in proving the fallacies of my theory, yet not proven it impossible.

It’s impossible to show your theory to be impossible, because it’s covering nothing but unknowns. When things are unknown, anything is possible really, just like I could say humans in Tyria came from Planet Earth. You’d never be able to prove me wrong.

jheryn.8390:

I still can’t get on board with this one. The giant thing, yes. The all taken at one time thing, no. It seems more than unlikely that the common ones like ghouls and hell hounds would not still be there.

And if he is making undead giants, why isn’t he making more hell hounds and ghouls. I’m sure they could import dead ones of those as well.

The hell hounds were, most likely, just undead dogs. There may not have been many in Orr in the first place.

Ghouls were people, twisted in a certain way. So we do see them – Risen Farmers, Risen Nobles, etc. etc. Those would be of the same origin as Ghouls. So Zhaitan no making more Ghouls is no different than him simply not making Risen (which while called undead by the uneducated, do not function nor are created in the same way as undead) the same way that Khilbron did.

I’d imagine that Krytans treated the corpses of undead similar to Canthans treating the corpses of Afflicted – burning them, or chopping them up, or otherwise making them unable to rise again. Besides, the bodies that the Risen conscript are recent kills. The only ancient (read: died before Zhaitan’s rise) Risen who’s body wasn’t in Orr that exists is Mazdak.

In the end, the only questionable “why don’t we see these” undead would be horses and hounds. Possibly Bone Dragons, though I’d imagine they were rare in Orr and all taken out. Same probably so for horses too.

Konig, I really don’t know where you’ve learned all this Lore but I can tell you that I’m pleased to read every single posts you wrote down. I love the deep-rich Lore of games and I enjoy reading constructive theories about those “unsolved mysteries” we’re talking about. And this also applies for all the others Lore posters that share their thoughts in this part of the Forum. Thank you for your good read!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tuomir.1830:

I don’t see how I stated my theory is wrong – the quest dialogue states that both were corrupted and released horrors to their lands, not that they went power mad. You can assume the case, but it doesn’t make it a necessarily true, since there’s more than one way of being corrupt, especially when magic is involved. The way I see the events having played out, Doric would have used the staff’s power to protect his kingdom, relying increasingly on it and unwittingly releasing the mentioned horrors. That could be seen as corruption, especially since the one telling us about them is found in Desolation, and probably didn’t witness the Tyrian side of the events.

Corrupted, in this case, is meaning that they’re going, effectively, power mad. This isn’t like the Elder Dragon corruption or whathaveyou, it just means tat they turned evil(ish). Whether you call that power mad or not, you’re still stating that Doric remained benevolent and defensive the entire time – aka, while not stating it explicitly, what you’re saying means the same thing as Doric didn’t become corrupted by the staves’ power (“mad with power” as I put it, same meaning in the end, different vocab).

Benevolent and defensive to his own people – that’s not mutually exclusive to being corrupted by power.

Tuomir.1830:

Tuomir.1830:

I stretch just as much as I need to in order to cover the ground between my points. It doesn’t take away from the value of the points the connections are based on.

Actually, it does. The more you stretch plausibilities, the less likely things are to be. I could argue all day for why humans on Tyria came from Earth, but it’d just be a bunch of stretching facts in a completely possible but completely unfounded way. Same as what you’re doing now.

And such stretching almost never turn out to be the case.

Seems that you misunderstood what I meant. " It doesn’t take away from the value of the points the connections are based on." Meaning, while the connection might be stretched out, it doesn’t affect the facts behind the theory. And isn’t that what a theory is, plausible connections between what is known? My theory isn’t completely unfounded, it’s based on logical deduction. Comparing it to suggesting that humans came to Tyria from Earth without any kind of reasoning is out of line. I welcome you to pick apart my logic, but don’t spit on it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tuomir.1830:

Except we don’t know whose crypt it was that the Scepter was found in. And as such, is could be practically anyone who isn’t known to be buried elsewhere.

So it could be where King Jadon is buried too.

This is no different than saying “humanity came from Earth because it’s never been said that they didn’t!”

Tuomir.1830:

But, by now you’ve succeeded in proving the fallacies of my theory, yet not proven it impossible.

It’s impossible to show your theory to be impossible, because it’s covering nothing but unknowns. When things are unknown, anything is possible really, just like I could say humans in Tyria came from Planet Earth. You’d never be able to prove me wrong.

That is just uncalled for. If you want to prove my theory wrong so bad, you can search for a critical flaw in my logic. I did quite a bit of research making that theory, calling it based solely on unknowns is plain rude.

Well, going back to the topic. I’d like to know the following:

1) Where did humanity came from? How? And why?

2) Where did the gods came from, how did they came to be?

3) What happened with Zaithan’s corpse? Did it corrupted anything where it fell? Does it have anything of interest inside? Is any of his magic salvageable?

4) What’s the connection between the dream and the mists?

5) Does the nightmare court have any connection with Mordremoth?

6) Where are the gods and what are they doing? What keeps them so busy?

7) Where did the gargoiles go?

8) What’s happening in Kaineng?

Tuomir.1830:

Benevolent and defensive to his own people – that’s not mutually exclusive to being corrupted by power.

No, but unleashing horrors on their own lands is – which the dialogue says. “Terrible horrors were unleashed upon the lands once guarded by their benevolent power.”

Whomever these rulers were, the “terrible horrors” they “unleashed” were upon their own territories.

Tuomir.1830:

Meaning, while the connection might be stretched out, it doesn’t affect the facts behind the theory. And isn’t that what a theory is, plausible connections between what is known? My theory isn’t completely unfounded, it’s based on logical deduction. Comparing it to suggesting that humans came to Tyria from Earth without any kind of reasoning is out of line. I welcome you to pick apart my logic, but don’t spit on it.

The connection loses its plausibility the more stretching the connections hold. Yes, it doesn’t change the facts, but the connection doesn’t remain firm.

And I’m neither spitting on it nor was the suggested comparison I made “without any kind of reasoning” (I just didn’t give the reasoning since its so off-topic).

Tuomir.1830:

That is just uncalled for. If you want to prove my theory wrong so bad, you can search for a critical flaw in my logic. I did quite a bit of research making that theory, calling it based solely on unknowns is plain rude.

My point is that the “critical flaw” in your logic is that it’s based on unknowns.

When you have things based on unknowns, you can neither prove it wrong nor prove it right, and arguing for or against it becomes pointless before the end. Yes, you did research, but in the end you theory boils down to “we don’t know about this, this, and this, so that could mean <insert theory here> about that, that, and that” – We don’t know who’s buried in the crypt in Majesty’s Rest, so it could be Doric’s tomb. We don’t know when the staves were made or given, by whom, or to whom, so it could be that the wars ad the horrors are the same. Etc., etc.

I could use the same lines of arguments with only very minor twists and be just as convincing for why your theory is not the case. But it neither disproves nor proves either side.

1. Are the forgotten from the mists? Why are they and some dwarves so devoted to the gods?
2. Is the Great Dwarf real? Or is it just the hive mind we see today? What more information can we get on the history of the dwarves to make sense of this?
3. Is Koda real? What is it’s connection to Tyria, the gods, the spirits of the wild?
4. Does Tyria have an “outer space”? Or is their “outer space” something more Mists like? (noting the celestials and the Hylek worship of the sun, and the champions of the sun in Caledon)
5. More information on the previous dragon risings, the Age of Giants, etc….

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tuomir.1830:

Benevolent and defensive to his own people – that’s not mutually exclusive to being corrupted by power.

No, but unleashing horrors on their own lands is – which the dialogue says. “Terrible horrors were unleashed upon the lands once guarded by their benevolent power.”

Whomever these rulers were, the “terrible horrors” they “unleashed” were upon their own territories.

King Adelbern was a benevolent ruler who would do anything to protect his kingdom. See Foefire. If Doric were to unleash horrors upon his lands to stop invaders, by redeeming himself with his life he would have been remembered as a hero.

Tuomir.1830:

Tuomir.1830:

Meaning, while the connection might be stretched out, it doesn’t affect the facts behind the theory. And isn’t that what a theory is, plausible connections between what is known? My theory isn’t completely unfounded, it’s based on logical deduction. Comparing it to suggesting that humans came to Tyria from Earth without any kind of reasoning is out of line. I welcome you to pick apart my logic, but don’t spit on it.

The connection loses its plausibility the more stretching the connections hold. Yes, it doesn’t change the facts, but the connection doesn’t remain firm.

And I’m neither spitting on it nor was the suggested comparison I made “without any kind of reasoning” (I just didn’t give the reasoning since its so off-topic).

The stretches I made were only to follow from the more solid deduction regarding the possible time and place of the events. Rather than “A might be B”, it plays out as “If C is D, then A must be B”. Individually, they are long stretches, but looking that from a perspective where a former connection is assumed true, they make sense.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tuomir.1830:

That is just uncalled for. If you want to prove my theory wrong so bad, you can search for a critical flaw in my logic. I did quite a bit of research making that theory, calling it based solely on unknowns is plain rude.

My point is that the “critical flaw” in your logic is that it’s based on unknowns.

When you have things based on unknowns, you can neither prove it wrong nor prove it right, and arguing for or against it becomes pointless before the end. Yes, you did research, but in the end you theory boils down to “we don’t know about this, this, and this, so that could mean <insert theory here> about that, that, and that” – We don’t know who’s buried in the crypt in Majesty’s Rest, so it could be Doric’s tomb. We don’t know when the staves were made or given, by whom, or to whom, so it could be that the wars ad the horrors are the same. Etc., etc.

I could use the same lines of arguments with only very minor twists and be just as convincing for why your theory is not the case. But it neither disproves nor proves either side.

As said before, it’s not based on just unknowns. We know where the staves were found, we know the point after which they couldn’t have been created, we know of Doric’s position as a king, we know that the events related to the staves were major enough to warrant for the intervention by the gods and more. The idea of “if such would have happened, we would know of it” is, while not solid evidence, far from basing solely on unknowns.

And as I admitted, it is nothing more than a theory, and one that I can’t prove to be true. And no, I do not believe it to be the truth, myself. But, I find it to be an interesting. Why? Because despite the stretches and assumptions, it would explain several existing mysteries, using existing information.

Tuomir.1830:

King Adelbern was a benevolent ruler who would do anything to protect his kingdom.

No, he wasn’t. He was a racist, stubborn, prideful, a war hero, and a good leader. But not benevolent. His immense hatred of Krytans speaks for itself in his “benevolency.”

Tuomir.1830:

Individually, they are long stretches, but looking that from a perspective where a former connection is assumed true, they make sense.

Bolded is precisely why they’re overly long stretches that reduce plausibility. You’re basing things not only on facts, but presumed connections.

Tuomir.1830:

As said before, it’s not based on just unknowns. We know where the staves were found, we know the point after which they couldn’t have been created, we know of Doric’s position as a king, we know that the events related to the staves were major enough to warrant for the intervention by the gods and more. The idea of “if such would have happened, we would know of it” is, while not solid evidence, far from basing solely on unknowns.

We know where one staff was found, actually. Where the White Mantle found the Scepter of Orr holds no baring to the original burial place – something you presume is not so. This is one such “assumed correct connection” mentioned above.

We do not know the point in which the staves couldn’t have been created. This is another presumption you’re making – that they couldn’t have been made pre-0 AE. But where’s this ever really shown?

“If such would have happened, we would know of it” – Abaddon. Dhuum. Both caused major problems in Tyria, but all knowledge of them was (more or less) removed from the world by the Six Gods. Though knowledge of Dhuum isn’t outright known to have been removed, we only hear of him from The Underworld and the Realm of Torment in GW1, and in GW2 only in secret-keeping of Grenth’s priesthood, or from the Priory (perhaps known only thanks to the GW1 events, like Abaddon).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We do not know the point in which the staves couldn’t have been created. This is another presumption you’re making – that they couldn’t have been made pre-0 AE. But where’s this ever really shown?

I’m just only going to answer to this one point right now since I’m rather sleepy…

I’m saying they couldn’t have been made after AE 1, based on what Vissh Rakissh tells us – “The scepter and its twin, the Scepter of Orr, were created long ago, when this desert was still an ocean”.

I highly doubt, with the whole POI where Grenth cast down Dhuum in Orr, that people didn’t know about Dhuum. Though, at the same time, no one seemed to believe that a god could be replaced until the Apostate told us. Of course I could still be true in that Grenth, a half god, did not kill Dhuum, merely imprisoned him. So for all intents and purposes it could still be suspected by humanity that you could not kill a god.

@Toumir: Thing is, that’s working under the impression that it was an immediate drying out. Thing is, all we really know is that the blow that struck Abaddon down caused some elevation shift to make the desert. We don’t know how immediately the sea became a desert – given that all the ships of the Margonites somehow managed to locate themselves in one – possibly two (depending on the origins of the spot north of Amnoon/SW of Seeker’s Path which looks built from shipwrecks too) location, I somehow doubt it was an immediate thing.

Though I’ll concede that specific point since it slipped my mind. But that’s still a 10,000+ timeframe you have… you only eliminated 1,000 years, really.

@Narcemus: Well, keep in mind that the ossuary of the temple of Lyssa more than likely wasn’t covered in massive amounts of bone before Zhaitan took over. And for all we know, it was only recently realized that was “Dhuum’s Last Stand” – honestly speaking, other than the PoI’s name and the skill challenge speaking of some unknown residual transference of energies, there’s nothing to say “Dhuum was here.” And the names are more mechanical than lorical. Only mention of Dhuum in Tyria ever is solely “Dhuum was replaced by Grenth and the would-be Seven Reapers,” which is less than what we get from the Realm of Torment/Underworld events.

There are bone structures, but if I remember right (spent much of my Orr exploration outrunning risen seeing as I kinda had to solo it all) there were man made structures there too, which lead me to believe that it was a spot made to commemorate the action of Grenth claiming godhood. I find it personally hard to believe that something as big as Grenth taking Dhuum out would be forgotten by the people of the area, especially if Dhuum was the tyrant he’s made out to be. And it is not stated, though it could be true and we are not told of it, that the gods did anything to wipe out history of Dhuum like they did with Abaddon.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tuomir.1830:

King Adelbern was a benevolent ruler who would do anything to protect his kingdom.

No, he wasn’t. He was a racist, stubborn, prideful, a war hero, and a good leader. But not benevolent. His immense hatred of Krytans speaks for itself in his “benevolency.”

Well, to be fair, the White Mantle were the head of Kryta at the time and they betrayed the Ascalonians and the Krytan monarchy.

He was benevolent for a time, if only to Ascalonians, but his anger and desire to win the war with the charr essentially drove him mad. He thus caused the foefire not to protect his people, but to take as many charr out with him as he could, and dooming the souls of his own people to walk the ruins in the process.

I’m really only interested in one mystery and that’s the mystery of Isgarren and his Wizard’s Tower.
Who is he?
Where does he come from?
How is his magic so powerful?
Why do his elementals serve Garrenhoff?
Is he simply the hermetic benefactor he’s made out to be, or is there something more sinister at work?
Will we ever get to visit Wizard’s Tower? And if so, will we be guests or foes?

Narcemus.1348:

There are bone structures, but if I remember right […] there were man made structures there too, which lead me to believe that it was a spot made to commemorate the action of Grenth claiming godhood. I find it personally hard to believe that something as big as Grenth taking Dhuum out would be forgotten by the people of the area, especially if Dhuum was the tyrant he’s made out to be. And it is not stated, though it could be true and we are not told of it, that the gods did anything to wipe out history of Dhuum like they did with Abaddon.

That man made structure is fully explained during the story path to destroy the “factory” making Risen when you’re given the option to attack said “factory” or to attack the largest ship that’s bringing corpses to Orr. It is, as I said in my previous post, the ossuary of the Temple of Lyssa. It is where the followers of Lyssa were buried. The temple’s crypt. It’s not there to commemorate Dhuum’s fall (otherwise it’d be dedicated to Grenth, not part of Lyssa’s temple) and I believe it was there before Dhuum’s fall (again, otherwise the structure would be dedicated to Grenth, even if the knowledge of being where Dhuum was defeated was forgotten).

And the location chosen to create new Risen.

bastien.7961:

Well, to be fair, the White Mantle were the head of Kryta at the time and they betrayed the Ascalonians and the Krytan monarchy.

That didn’t matter to him. Krytan was Krytan and no one at the time thought ill of the White Mantle. If anything, the change in government would have made Adelbern kinder to the Krytans, not unchanged.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

bastien.7961:

Well, to be fair, the White Mantle were the head of Kryta at the time and they betrayed the Ascalonians and the Krytan monarchy.

That didn’t matter to him. Krytan was Krytan and no one at the time thought ill of the White Mantle. If anything, the change in government would have made Adelbern kinder to the Krytans, not unchanged.

Exactly. No one else was wary of them but Adelbern, and he proved to be right.

The Krytans in power—i.e. the only Krytans who mattered at the time—were corrupt and killed anyone who could stand in their way, including their own people and Ascalonian refugees. Adelbern was correct in distrusting the White Mantle. No, they didn’t represent all Krytans, but they were the only ones that could have meant anything to Ascalon and its people at the time. Xenophobic maybe, but also prescient.

The thing is, Adelbern didn’t distrust the White Mantle because of any inner understanding of them, but purely because they were Krytan. He shows the exact same distrust towards the Shining Blade later. As the saying goes, a stopped clock is right twice a day – just because his attitude proved to be right once does not make it rational.

On Dhuum’s last stand – I’d have to check my screenshot bank and/or go back there with a human character to check, but I’m pretty sure I do recall something there that pointed to what it was rather than just the POI name.

Whats the whole riddle from guild wars 1 mean? It seems more of a warning to me.

An offering to those who seek
Beyond the mists beyond the dreams
On distant shores of a land unwaking
Answers there lie in waiting

I know the third line means Orr rising.

“An offering to those who seek”
Offer what?

“Beyond the mists, beyond the dreams”

The Mist Wars maybe? And something to do with the sylvari?

“Answers there lie in waiting”

Might just be a continuation on the rising of Orr part, but what answers?

bastien.7961:

Exactly. No one else was wary of them but Adelbern, and he proved to be right.

He only was “wary” of them because of his racist view of Krytans in general. He would have reacted the same to the Lionguard or priests of Dwayna from Kryta as he did the White Mantle.

He didn’t look at them as “White Mantle who were tricking the Krytan people and killing thousands over the course of five years” – he didn’t even look at them as “the White Mantle.” He looked at them as “Krytans.” Nothing more, nothing less, and for simply being Krytan he said “get the kitten off my lawn.”

Beetle.2476:

Whats the whole riddle from guild wars 1 mean? It seems more of a warning to me.

An offering to those who seek
Beyond the mists beyond the dreams
On distant shores of a land unwaking
Answers there lie in waiting

I know the third line means Orr rising.

“An offering to those who seek”
Offer what?

“Beyond the mists, beyond the dreams”

The Mist Wars maybe? And something to do with the sylvari?

“Answers there lie in waiting”

Might just be a continuation on the rising of Orr part, but what answers?

Jeff Grubb semi-answered that as it referring to Arah which held answers about the Six Gods, elder races, and Elder Dragons. By semi-answering, he says “it may refer to Arah, but we’ll find out.” And thing is – it fits Arah to the t. Arah holds answers of things beyond the Mists (mursaat/forgotten/Six Gods) in a land then unwaking (Orr).

What happened to Wizard’s Folly? Right after the searing, it was like wiped off (literally) off the map.

So, what happened to Livia? Didn’t she get Scepter Of Orr?

LumAnth.5124:

What happened to Wizard’s Folly? Right after the searing, it was like wiped off (literally) off the map.

It’s still off the map – if you compare landmarks, it’d be south of the western half of the Plains of Ashford. The transition between Lakeside and Wizard’s Folly in presearing would be roughly where Lake Adorea is now.

My biggest questions mostly revolve around the absence of animals and monsters. There were so many more creatures to kill back then , then there are now. There were so many things like the wide variety of dino’s, Hydra’s, loads of insects and plants and undead. I do believe there are reasons for it, though I am not entirely sure what they could be.
But there are a few mentions of ‘missing monsters’ like the Hydra Queen, and Aloe seeds, and small things like that. So we know that they did not just remove them from cannon. If they no longer wished to use them, it would have been easy to say the charr cleared out all the hydra when they retook Ascalon. The same can be said with the Asura perhaps taking out the rest of the dino’s except the raptors which had a pretty large population back then.

So what happened to the Hydras? What happened to the Saurians? The primates? The Gargoyles? The insects? The plant life? The Mandragor? The Dyrder?

And why did so many races change? was it all cosmetic? because some are really different, like the giants. Some look similar, like the imps, now they can fly and look less cartoony, and the dedge look similiar albeit much smaller. The Grawl and Centaurs, still look really close to what they did in the past, but much more detailed and elegant.

I really want to know about this kind of stuff. I need answers, :’(

I personally think there is some connection, just something, connecting the Ossuary of the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance to the site of Dhuum’s fall. I mean I find it hard to believe (whichever came first) that there wasn’t some connection. I mean we bury the dead here…. The old god of death was thrown down here…

Hydra were mostly in the Crystal Desert and Ring of Fire, albeit with a few in Ascalon. I’d find it believable that the hydras in Ascalon were forced out by the charr. Similarly for the dinosaurs in asura territory – the GW1 asura were pretty keen to force them out, so it’s likely that now they’ve succeeded. We might see them further west. Similar with the simians.

Gargoyles have canonically disappeared – there’s a charr Priory member somewhere that comments on it. Scarabs were mostly in the Maguuma and Crystal Desert, so we’ll probably see them around there. Mandragor and dryder were both also mainly outside of territories we can currently access (the Frostfire dryders were mostly found at or above the latitude of Yak’s Bend).

The missing plant enemies, however, is a definite mystery. I have a few suspicions regarding them being connected to the druids, sylvari, or both, but there’s really nothing concrete.

Yeah, there’s really nothing saying any of these monsters, except maybe the plant enemies, won’t make a return. I honestly look forward to new lands so that we can possibly see more of these creatures and learn more about them.

Tuomir.1830:

Getefix.9150:

Tuomir.1830:

4. Glints eggs. Did any of them grow up? Also, the oldest known example of a dragon minion laying eggs.

one did hatch, there was a competative mission in ‘Eye of the North’ to protect a hatchling…. then there’s Shiny, Gorens guard dragon who called him Mommy…. and kuunavang, the grumpy celestial power giving dragon
I wanna know – what happened to the ‘good’ dragons

Well, Shiny and Kuunavang were saltspray dragons, with no known connection to Elder Dragons, unlike Glint. And that mission where you defend the baby dragon was pretty much what got me to thinking if any of them survived to this day.

That came out wrong, what I meant was that the only known baby dragon of glint was in that mission, I wanted to know what happened to ALL ‘good’ dragons, not simply those affiliated with glint, plus we don’t know if Kuunavang was or was not tied to an elder dragon (like glint was), there is still bubbles and maybe this Mordremoth, you never know what the dev team will think of next, one of the reasons I adore the Guild Wars franchise

Yojimaru.4980:

Personally, I’d like to know (in lurid detail) exactly what Gwen did to earn a title like “the Goremonger” from the Charr. They aren’t exactly a squeamish race after all…

Yesh!!

Rizalee.4593:

Yojimaru.4980:

Personally, I’d like to know (in lurid detail) exactly what Gwen did to earn a title like “the Goremonger” from the Charr. They aren’t exactly a squeamish race after all…

Yesh!!

I think she earned the title over the years of war, not by only one event.

Plus, especially in GW1 times, they seemed the type to villify an enemy for doing less to them than they habitually did to anyone else given half an opportunity. Even if tkittenon Vanguard stumbled on and massacred a few fahrars before being recalled, her actions couldn’t have been a patch on what the charr did during the Searing.

Her villification by the charr could well be just a simple as “She dared to fight back and deny us total victory!”

Yeah, I’d agree with Drax here. ArenaNet has come in and shown us things in human lore that aren’t fully true, but they’ve shown us some things in the stories and actions of other races to try to even out the effect of it. In other words, the charr are lying as well. Many of their stories about the war, especially if you listen to teachers explaining things to their Fahrars, are obviously wrong and point towards humans being much mroe back-handed then they are. I think it just hurts the humans so much more because of the fact that we only ever got to see the human perspective.

Indeed. As another example, for instance, you see Rurik being described as a ‘tyrant’, and generally depicted as a tyrant for his actions in Nolani… where, basically, the only thing he could be seen as having been in the wrong for was for being rude enough to not simply roll over and die to the charr.

Respect for the enemy is not something the GW1 charr had much of – anyone that fought them was either weak (for losing to them), the most despicable of villains (for fighting back effectively) or both. Which, in turn, makes their ‘victory at any cost’ mantra quite hypocritical – it only applies when they’re doing it, but when someone else does it it’s all reprehensible war crimes, even if it was only the charr soldiers that were harmed.

I’ve said it before – if the positions of charr and humans had been reversed and it was a charr who called down the Foefire, destroying an enemy army and ensuring that the charr army would never truly be defeated, then the other charr would have regarded them as a hero.

Which is exactly how the humans viewed Adlebern, until the truth was found out in Ghosts of Ascalon. Fighting the Flame Legion Imperator while his men fought below. Suddenly the two weapons (Magdaer and The Claw) clash and BAM Foefire!

Indeed. The point being, humans view blowing up their nation and cursing their subjects to undead to be a bad thing. The GW1 charr, however, would probably have viewed it as admirable had it been one of theirs to do it in a similar situation to Adelbern’s. “Victory at any cost”, after all.

I just want to know what happened to the Scepter of Orr. In the Eye of the North closing cinematic we see Livia finding it and after thinking for a second reach out to grab it before the cinematic pans to another scene. It left a bit of mystery there. And I was actually completely shocked not to hear any mention of it in GW2.

Honestly small things like that have me a bit disappointed. I think its personal story and lore could be so much incredibly deeper than it is, but I am hopeful they wills tart to implement these sorts of things through living story and expansions.

One big thing i have been wondering is…
Where is Razah now?

Can Someone Please help me find out what these things are?
I’ve been playing GW2 Since 2012 and I’ve never come into contact with these things up until recently, Is there anyone out there who knows a little bit more about this?

Fxakify.6059:

Can Someone Please help me find out what these things are?
I’ve been playing GW2 Since 2012 and I’ve never come into contact with these things up until recently, Is there anyone out there who knows a little bit more about this?

Holy necro! But since you ask, the answer is that they are part of Current Events (for relative values of “current” — they started appearing quite some time ago as part of the ley-line collection events) and if you manage to run through one of them you’ll unlock a collection achievement. Check https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anomalous_vision for more if you don’t mind some spoilers. Also go chat with the krait-oil sales-asura in Lion’s Arch before you do so, he’s part of a decision you’ll make in that collection.

Since everyone else has already stated the obvious ones (human origin, Scepter of Orr, Gods, etc.) I will bring up something that has bugged me for almost ten years:
Who actually built the Eye of the North?
It wasn’t the ancient jotuns, I believe Konig and Drax have debunked that in older threads. As is stated in EotN it wasn’t built by humans, dwarves, or asura. So, who was it?

In the 2007 PCGamer Guild Wars issue, there was a small overlooked line about the Eye of the North. Apparently at the time in the lore it had the “same style of architecture as Arah”.

Of course that doesn’t seem to hold true anymore given the very circular design of Orrian structure we see in GW2, but it would fit the heavy eagle motif we see in Orrian undead armor. The implication that I got thus being that it was made not by humans but by the Six Gods.

EDIT: Grabbed the magazine since it was reachable. The exact quote being “It is not human, dwarven, or asuran in construction, although it resembles the architecture of Arah and other godly sites.”

Where are the Ash Legion homelands? I really hope we get to visit them in the next expansion, since they seem to be near Crystal Desert. Also, I want to meet the Ash Legion and Blood Legion Imperators.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the 2007 PCGamer Guild Wars issue, there was a small overlooked line about the Eye of the North. Apparently at the time in the lore it had the “same style of architecture as Arah”.

Of course that doesn’t seem to hold true anymore given the very circular design of Orrian structure we see in GW2, but it would fit the heavy eagle motif we see in Orrian undead armor. The implication that I got thus being that it was made not by humans but by the Six Gods.

EDIT: Grabbed the magazine since it was reachable. The exact quote being “It is not human, dwarven, or asuran in construction, although it resembles the architecture of Arah and other godly sites.”

Would kinda make sense in order to justify the Eye’s similarity to the Ashford Abbey, but who knows if we’ll ever find out for certain.