wait what?
and what about the thaumanova reactor itself, which we went in during the fractured release, and definitely not dug deep underground?
The fractal wasn’t underground because it’s a floating island of reality.
The real reactor is underground. Basement level 1.
i don’t know, looking at the maguuma’s flying rocks and the thaumanova explosion (caused by messing with leylines despite not being underground in any way) makes me think that height is not much of a factor.
and the lifeblood statement doesn’t change that much either. they could just as easily be on the surface.
The Thaumanova explosion was caused in an Inquest lab deep beneath the surface. All we see in-game is the remnants of the city that the lab was underneath, not the site of the explosion itself.
wait what?
and what about the thaumanova reactor itself, which we went in during the fractured release, and definitely not dug deep underground?
It is dug deep underground, the sky you see in the fractal is just part of how they construct themeselves, so to say. It’s not a 100% exact copy and there’s missing things, which in this case is the ceiling.
wait what?
and what about the thaumanova reactor itself, which we went in during the fractured release, and definitely not dug deep underground?
The fractal wasn’t underground because it’s a floating island of reality.
The real reactor is underground. Basement level 1.
i’m in-game right now, looking at the refugee camp and the reactor itself, and nothing says it was originally a city. yes, the wiki states so, but i haven’t seen anything to back that claim. that’s what i’m most confused about.
and the architecture of the reactor in the fractal and in the current version makes it look like an open area. just like rata sum, “basement” doesn’t necessarily require a roof.
and even granting that the reactor was “basement level 1”, if the inquest built a lab there, then scarlet doesn’t require a giant flying drill to dig for leylines.
Go talk to the guy outside the east entrance to the city. TALK to him, not listen to his one-liner that he says every time you pass.
Why do people think “hey, I talked to the refugee camp and now I know everything about Thaumanova!” Because honestly, the lore of Thaumanova is spread throughout the entire continent.
And, uh, for the record: Thaumanova was over a ley line, not at. And it was by tampering with two forms of unstable magic one of which alters magic, near a reactor of magic, over an intersection of ley lines, that caused the explosion. If the drill is for reaching a ley line, then simply being over it won’t be enough. And I bet that Thaumanova would have been far more fatal if it was in the ley line (or closer).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
i’m not claiming i know everything. i just went to the only non-fractal source of thaumanova info i know of, the reactor itself.
Scarlet Briar: I told the Inquest chaos energy was a misnomer. Mind you, dragon energy is tricky, so I can see how they flubbed it.
Scarlet Briar: At least they helped identify the network of magical channels that crisscross the globe. That was a breakthrough.
Scarlet Briar: Now we know how NOT to do this kind of research right on an intersection of those channels. Live and learn, right?
“right on”, not “over”. also, not tampering with two kinds of magic, just one. dragon magic, which she is implying is the same thing as what we call chaos magic (or at least that instance of chaos magic).
Draconic energies is NOT the same as chaos magic. Otherwise every mesmer out there – and possibly thieves – would be using dragon magic. Unless you go with the argument of “any magic that ever came from dragons is dragon magic” then all magic in the world is dragon magic since it all at one point got eaten and exuded from them. Dragon magic as used by the Inquest is the “straight from the dragons, potentially corruptive magic.”
If you talked to Kiel after the story mode of the fractal (sadly not up on the wiki) she states that the Inquest studied chaos magic THEN dragon magic.
Also: “right on” is short for “right on top of” aka “right over” – you really shouldn’t try to be nitpicky of word usage because in all honesty, it’s very easy to take a single sentence with at least three different meanings.
yes, but why would your meaning be any more valid than mine? right on can be right on the spot where the lines are, not necessarily right over. nothing clearly states that the laboratory is above the leylines.
as for the commentary on chaos magic and dragon magic, those are her words, not mine. “chaos energy was a misnomer” implying that something the inquest was calling chaos energy was actually dragon energy. that doesn’t necessarily mean all chaos magic is dragon magic, just that whatever the inquest was studying on that laboratory was wrongly labeled “chaos energy” when it was in fact dragon energy.
That was kind of my point. When you go into such nitpickery you can argue multiple ways and be right each time.
As for the chaos magic: well, guess what, Scarlet’s wrong! gasp She couldn’t be right otherwise all mesmers are dragon minions.
It’s possible that something the Inquest was studying that they were calling chaos magic was dragon magic, but chaos magic != dragon magic and they were studying chaos magic there as well. Hence all the chaos rifts and whatnot that’s teleporting creatures from across the continent.
or it is as scarlet said: it looks like chaos magic, it behaves like chaos magic, but it isn’t actually chaos magic. “Mind you, dragon energy is tricky, so I can see how they flubbed it.” they and you, konig. they wouldn’t have thrown an outright wrong statement into the story for no reason.
and not necessarily. asuras used dragon energy for centuries to power their gates, and no one walked out of them as minions. odd how they used to use dragon energy for their mass teleportation devices… i mean, if anything went wrong with those, they’d start sending stuff to the wrong places! HMM…
…
Like I said, it is outright known that the Inquest studied both chaos magic and dragon magic. Just go about Thaumanova Reactor, Toxal Bog, The Anthill, and Chaos Crystal Cavern. It’s pretty obvious. So Scarlet would be wrong if she meant that everything studied there that was called chaos magic was in fact dragon energy. Whether or not she meant that is up to interpretation – but it is a long known fact that chaos magic was involved. Otherwise every single thing about the Thaumanova explosion except Scarlet in the Fractal itself, even Kiel after her investigations (aka post Fractal), would be wrong.
The Elder Dragons only radiate non-corruptive magic when hibernating (or dead, per Glint’s corpse). When awake, all indications show that they don’t leak magic, but can release it – corruptively.
yes, it’s “outright known” by the people who scarlet is pointing out were misinformed. the whole point of that fractal is that scarlet is pointing out that all the “chaos magic” information we had on thaumanova is inaccurate. why else would the devs add a line with her saying “hey, that thing you called chaos magic… that’s not what you think you are. but yeah, dragon energy is pretty hard to classify, don’t blame you. ta-ta!”. seriously. what else would be the point of that dialogue? or are you saying we should completely ignore it in favor of previous dialogue?
they built a whole fractal just to deliver that line, a statement of correction. she is correcting every NPC that claims thaumanova is about chaos magic gone wrong.
and who said anything about awoken dragons? dragon energy, not necessarily active, corruptive dragon energy.
So what you’re saying is…
All those chaos rifts…
All those distortions of chaos…
All those chaos beasts….
All those chaos shards…
All those chaotic results of what happens to those who tamper with the chaos shards (turning into animals, growing/shrinking, etc.)…
ALL HUNDRED PLUS REFERENCES TO CHAOS THROUGHOUT THE CONTINENT THAT’S RELATED TO THAUMANOVA
is inaccurate, because one measly little sylvari says so? Genius or not, she isn’t right about everything. And she sure as hell wasn’t saying outright point-blank without exception that everything the Inquest were studying was dragon magic.
And if Scarlet was saying that, and proved to be right, then why would Kiel later say the Inquest were studying both? And for that matter, why would the Infinite Coil Reactor classify chaos magic – which functions similarly to around Thaumanova – differently from dragon energy?
And no, they did not build that whole fractal just for that one line – they built it because they thought they could make an epic experience out of it and the Abaddon Fractal and the Thaumanova one won. If you think that one line by Scarlet is the only thing of importance in the Fractal, I really suggest you pay more attention next time you go through it. It’d be like saying the only thing of importance in the fight against Zhaitan is that he had multiple heads.
No. Everything. EVERY LITTLE BLOODY THING about Thaumanova currently and in fact always has pointed to the Inquest studying at least two things in Thaumanova: chaos magic and dragon energy. Now, what Scarlet corrected/informed was that at Thaumanova, they unintentionally experimented on dragon energy, while intentionally experimented on chaos magic. And the Fractal also tells us of one – possibly two – additional experiments involved (Subject 6 ooze, which appears to be turning an asura into an ooze, and the djinn-like being in the reactor’s core, which is the “possible” one).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die? Besides, in the mists, we would’ve been able to face Abaddon! So how is it impossible that some form, like a past form, wouldn’t be able to be in the Mists and affect Scarlet when she peered into the Mists??
simply gather a party of 8 and kill him in gw1 lol
Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.
We aren’t returning to Abaddon.
It’s funny they would say that and then do almost a year’s worth of stories all tied to Scarlet.
But yeah, I think Abaddon is unlikely. For all we know there is no mysterious figure behind it all, it’s still possible that Scarlet’s mind fractured and she imagined a big bad (I admit that would be really disappointing).
So what you’re saying is…
All those chaos rifts…
All those distortions of chaos…
All those chaos beasts….
All those chaos shards…
All those chaotic results of what happens to those who tamper with the chaos shards (turning into animals, growing/shrinking, etc.)…
ALL HUNDRED PLUS REFERENCES TO CHAOS THROUGHOUT THE CONTINENT THAT’S RELATED TO THAUMANOVA
is inaccurate, because one measly little sylvari says so? Genius or not, she isn’t right about everything. And she sure as hell wasn’t saying outright point-blank without exception that everything the Inquest were studying was dragon magic.
And if Scarlet was saying that, and proved to be right, then why would Kiel later say the Inquest were studying both? And for that matter, why would the Infinite Coil Reactor classify chaos magic – which functions similarly to around Thaumanova – differently from dragon energy?
And no, they did not build that whole fractal just for that one line – they built it because they thought they could make an epic experience out of it and the Abaddon Fractal and the Thaumanova one won. If you think that one line by Scarlet is the only thing of importance in the Fractal, I really suggest you pay more attention next time you go through it. It’d be like saying the only thing of importance in the fight against Zhaitan is that he had multiple heads.
No. Everything. EVERY LITTLE BLOODY THING about Thaumanova currently and in fact always has pointed to the Inquest studying at least two things in Thaumanova: chaos magic and dragon energy. Now, what Scarlet corrected/informed was that at Thaumanova, they unintentionally experimented on dragon energy, while intentionally experimented on chaos magic. And the Fractal also tells us of one – possibly two – additional experiments involved (Subject 6 ooze, which appears to be turning an asura into an ooze, and the djinn-like being in the reactor’s core, which is the “possible” one).
my claim, as outlandish as you say it is, sure beats “the writers are wrong, i’m right”.
i’m not saying that the entire fractal’s purpose is that single line, but to pretend it’s not there, or that it’s a false lead that appeared after the original leads, is just being dense about it. she outright claims that what the inquest was calling chaos energy on thaumanova is a misnomer. you can’t simply claim “nope, that statement is wrong because it doesn’t fit what i already know”. you of all people should know by now that ANet adapts and changes lore through new exposition. hell, just about everything we knew about magic on tyria has changed since GW2 came out.
Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die? Besides, in the mists, we would’ve been able to face Abaddon! So how is it impossible that some form, like a past form, wouldn’t be able to be in the Mists and affect Scarlet when she peered into the Mists??
simply gather a party of 8 and kill him in gw1 lol
i think our hobbit friend needs a little clarification:
we didn’t just kill abaddon. we killed him, ground his corpse into a fine powder, mixed it with water, and had kormir drink it all. there is nothing left of abaddon.
Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.
We aren’t returning to Abaddon.
Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?
As for Abaddon being dead. The Abaddon of our alternative reality is dead for certain, but is he the only Abaddon in existence? Perhaps that’s what Scarlet saw, alternative Abaddons who have become aware of one another and working together towards a merging of the timelines.
Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.
We aren’t returning to Abaddon.
Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?
As for Abaddon being dead. The Abaddon of our alternative reality is dead for certain, but is he the only Abaddon in existence? Perhaps that’s what Scarlet saw, alternative Abaddons who have become aware of one another and working together towards a merging of the timelines.
i think you missed the part of the post where it points out that the developers are saying “no more abaddon, we’re done with it. never again”.
seriously, just drop it. no multiverse theory to bring him back.
Abbadon is not the root of the evil and everything you know about magic in Tyria might be still the same with just some more previous unknown magic. After reading this thread which gave me a lot of hints (thank you all), I start to think about dragons again, exactly: six or eight?
Additional I like to point out that the player killed Abbadon in the realm where the gods have him jailed. I don’t want to re-read the annoucement, but after trying to get into lore of GW1, it might be more about how the gods have jailed him. That might be pretty important since Abbadon doesn’t die in this fractal.
Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.
We aren’t returning to Abaddon.
Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?
As for Abaddon being dead. The Abaddon of our alternative reality is dead for certain, but is he the only Abaddon in existence? Perhaps that’s what Scarlet saw, alternative Abaddons who have become aware of one another and working together towards a merging of the timelines.
i think you missed the part of the post where it points out that the developers are saying “no more abaddon, we’re done with it. never again”.
seriously, just drop it. no multiverse theory to bring him back.
Actually I didn’t miss that part, however I do know developers of mmo’s say a lot of things that are often changed due to player demand or convenience. For example they said they didn’t want to tie it to one single point, yet we have Scarlet Briar being behind nearly everything in the Living Story. Another example is the fact that if Evon would of won we would be dealing with Abaddon again. To say one will never again deal with anything concerning a particular character includes their origins or past. The fact they were willing to give us content concerning Abaddon places some doubts on their claims that they are truly done with him.
Also for the record, I just used Abaddon as a convenient example of both the dangers and possibilities of incorporation alternative realities or time travel into a story. If I was Anet and willing to allow the possibility of alternative realities It could just as likely be that Scarlet saw the Mursaat, who are simply using her as their broadsword.
It’s funny they would say that and then do almost a year’s worth of stories all tied to Scarlet.
How so? It’s just one story, really, and not even everything from the year (Southsun stuff, SAB stuff, Tequatl, Bazaar) is part of Scarlet.
Plus, Abaddon’s plot was much larger than Scarlet’s. Though in terms of timespan of releases Abaddon’s stuff lasted 1.5 years while Scarlet is lasting 1.25 years, Abaddon had 3 full campaigns while Scarlet just has… 6 plots/~16 updates (Flame and Frost (4 updates), Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates of Tyria (2 updates), Queen’s Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos (2 updates), Twilight Assault (1 update), Tower of Nightmares stuff (2 full updates, 2 partials), and her last four finales (Marionette, Edge of the Mists, and two after).
Besides that, since it isn’t tied to Abaddon it’s still making it wider – at a depth elsewhere.
my claim, as outlandish as you say it is, sure beats “the writers are wrong, i’m right”.
Which is not what I’m saying either.
I’m saying that Scarlet’s line is interpretable as a red herring.
you can’t simply claim “nope, that statement is wrong because it doesn’t fit what i already know”. you of all people should know by now that ANet adapts and changes lore through new exposition. hell, just about everything we knew about magic on tyria has changed since GW2 came out.
But if you note. Scarlet never once says that everything the Inquest was studying as chaos magic was dragon magic. And to say “hey, Scarlet says this so she must be right” discredits over a dozen other NPCs both before and after Scarlet’s line.
To say Scarlet is right here, is to say that Thruln the Lost is right about how the jotun fell or how the Six Gods treated humanity, even though every other source on the matter – both older and newer says otherwise.
Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?
And everything in Eye of the North and the GW2 personal story, as well as much of the open world stuff from release, is about Elder Dragons.
Your point?
ArenaNet is making their lore “wider” by making it deeper in other places.
For example they said they didn’t want to tie it to one single point, yet we have Scarlet Briar being behind nearly everything in the Living Story.
You apparently looked at pepper and got salt out of the statement I made.
Their point is “they don’t want to tie everything to Abaddon” not “they don’t want to have additional large arcs of stories” (which is what Scarlet is – just as Abaddon was, just as the Elder Dragons on a whole are).
Another example is the fact that if Evon would of won we would be dealing with Abaddon again.
Again, you see one thing and get something else out of it. What’s meant is that they aren’t going to bring him back and they’re not going connect new elements to Abaddon, but this isn’t to say they won’t expand into Abaddon’s past to explain that when it makes for good storytelling. Because in the end, that’s the writers’ proclaimed goal: good storytelling.
Your point?
My point is that until ArenaNet ends the Guild Wars franchise there is a possibility, however slight or unlikely to some, that ArenaNet may very well bring Abaddon back from the grave or any of his minions.
Their point is “they don’t want to tie everything to Abaddon” not “they don’t want to have additional large arcs of stories” (which is what Scarlet is – just as Abaddon was, just as the Elder Dragons on a whole are).
In comparison the Elder Dragons and Scarlet seem relatively weak in comparison to Abaddon. From what I percieved the Elder Dragons were supposed to be these enigmatic that was beyond our comprehension, yet they appear to be no more than beasts satisfying their own hunger. Scarlet is presented in a way that suggests she is to be perceived as either Tyria’s own Joker or an mastermind, yet I find her to be quite incomptent.
Again, you see one thing and get something else out of it. What’s meant is that they aren’t going to bring him back and they’re not going connect new elements to Abaddon, but this isn’t to say they won’t expand into Abaddon’s past to explain that when it makes for good storytelling. Because in the end, that’s the writers’ proclaimed goal: good storytelling.
Taking into consideration the limitations inherited in an mmo concerning storytelling, it seems odd to expand Abaddon’s historical lore in the form of a dungeon. From my experience when a piece of historical lore is expanded upon in such a manner it is usually connected to the current story.
(edited by Darkbattlemage.9612)
Your point?
My point is that until ArenaNet ends the Guild Wars franchise there is a possibility, however slight or unlikely to some, that ArenaNet may very well bring Abaddon back from the grave or any of his minions.
There’s also the chance, however slight, that the Elder Dragons and gods will ally together and fly around Tyria as great God Dragon Rider Overlords holding the Tyrians to their will. This is why the gods and the dragons line up so well.
@ Konig: I know they gods and dragons don’t line up. I added that line in order to reinforce the heavy dripping sarcasm.
There’s also the chance, however slight, that the Elder Dragons and gods will ally together and fly around Tyria as great God Dragon Rider Overlords holding the Tyrians to their will. This is why the gods and the dragons line up so well.
@ Konig: I know they gods and dragons don’t line up. I added that line in order to reinforce the heavy dripping sarcasm.
I’d much prefer the possibility of an portal opening up in the time of our need, and Sapphire Honeysuckle (AU!Scarlet) flies out riding Merlimoth, the Elder Dragon of the Enchanted Forest, to save the day!
Could it be that Scarlet meant that they had originally mistaken dragon energy as chaos energy only in that instance(ie. they knew there was chaos magic, may have seen anomalies with their proximity to dragon magic, but continued to research assuming it was still chaos magic)? And perhaps after this instance, that’s when they discovered the differences in both types of magic? Or is it fact that they knew there were two types(chaos and dragon specifically) when they were researching there?
I find it unlikely that the side-effects of chaos magic, so perfectly line up with its namesake(I mean, it’s all very chaotic). Dev-wise, it’d be unwise of them to make dragon magic so chaotic and easily misinterpreted as chaos magic. To the casual player, it’d be very confusing, and it is in their best interest to make things as readable/obvious as possible.
Your point?
My point is that until ArenaNet ends the Guild Wars franchise there is a possibility, however slight or unlikely to some, that ArenaNet may very well bring Abaddon back from the grave or any of his minions.
There’s also the chance, however slight, that the Elder Dragons and gods will ally together and fly around Tyria as great God Dragon Rider Overlords holding the Tyrians to their will. This is why the gods and the dragons line up so well.
@ Konig: I know they gods and dragons don’t line up. I added that line in order to reinforce the heavy dripping sarcasm.
I know you being sarcasm but you are correct, that is also possible. It’s also possible the Elder Dragons are indeed the gods or the Sylvari are the plant dragon minions as some have claimed.
(edited by Darkbattlemage.9612)
My point is merely that the likelihood is extremely low. No one can say it will never happen because absolutes rarely exist, but the odds are very well against it.
So the current theories lead to either a new Dragon or Abadon?
Since we know that they’re “done” with Abadon, its the first option, right?
Anyway, If I had to choose between Abadon or new dragons, I’d choose Abadon, or Dhuum, or whatever that’s continuation of the GW1 lore.
What about the Mursaat? For whatever reason that last Reactor boss reminded me them.
My point is merely that the likelihood is extremely low. No one can say it will never happen because absolutes rarely exist, but the odds are very well against it.
I agree the likelihood is extremely low. I was just pointing out that the only time this claim will be absolute is when the Guild Wars franchise concludes as there will be no new canonically lore added or revisions made to the story at that point.
What about the Mursaat? For whatever reason that last Reactor boss reminded me them.
I seem to recall they claimed they wanted to do something with the Mursaat in Guild Wars 2.
(edited by Darkbattlemage.9612)
Taking into consideration the limitations inherited in an mmo concerning storytelling, it seems odd to expand Abaddon’s historical lore in the form of a dungeon. From my experience when a piece of historical lore is expanded upon in such a manner it is usually connected to the current story.
The Fractals are all about exploring history, thus far, and altered versions of it. The Fall of Abaddon fractal wouldn’t have been as his fall truly was – similarly, the Thaumanova Reactor fractal isn’t a perfect representation of what happened at Thaumanova.
When introduced, the individual Fractals had nothing to do with the Living Story (The Lost Shores). The entrance was introduced because of such, but the things within were irrelevant. I fail to see why this fractal must have had to deal with Scarlet. Maybe it dealt not with Scarlet, but with something else. If it did.
Could it be that Scarlet meant that they had originally mistaken dragon energy as chaos energy only in that instance(ie. they knew there was chaos magic, may have seen anomalies with their proximity to dragon magic, but continued to research assuming it was still chaos magic)? And perhaps after this instance, that’s when they discovered the differences in both types of magic? Or is it fact that they knew there were two types(chaos and dragon specifically) when they were researching there?
I took it as that (your first sentence), given that seems to be what Kiel says after her investigations. I don’t think that they knew the difference in Thaumanova, and but they clearly did later on.
Either way, it’s pretty obvious there was some chaos magic in Thaumanova.
I agree the likelihood is extremely low. I was just pointing out that the only time this claim will be absolute is when the Guild Wars franchise concludes as there will be no new canonically lore added or revisions made to the story at that point.
They maintained their stance of “Abaddon’s story is done” for roughly 3 years. I doubt they’d break it so easily.
Not that I’d be against it… though that depends on what they do with it. But I seriously doubt it, and the constant “It’s going to be Abaddon!” even when it clearly isn’t is getting as annoying as the no-support “sylvari are dragon minions” claim.
The Fractals are all about exploring history, thus far, and altered versions of it. The Fall of Abaddon fractal wouldn’t have been as his fall truly was – similarly, the Thaumanova Reactor fractal isn’t a perfect representation of what happened at Thaumanova.
When introduced, the individual Fractals had nothing to do with the Living Story (The Lost Shores). The entrance was introduced because of such, but the things within were irrelevant. I fail to see why this fractal must have had to deal with Scarlet. Maybe it dealt not with Scarlet, but with something else. If it did.
I wasn’t referring to all the Fractals but rather the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal. This was shown to be connected to Scarlet in some manner so there is possibility that Scarlet would of been seen within Abaddon Fractal or somehow had some connection with the fractal in some form or manner.
They maintained their stance of “Abaddon’s story is done” for roughly 3 years. I doubt they’d break it so easily.
Actually they could break it with relative ease. If there is enough demand for his return or if they themselves feel his return will make a good story then they will ignore their previous statement.
Not that I’d be against it… though that depends on what they do with it. But I seriously doubt it, and the constant “It’s going to be Abaddon!” even when it clearly isn’t is getting as annoying as the no-support “sylvari are dragon minions” claim.
I have to agree that these claims are annoying. I also doubt Abaddon will be brought back, however he makes a far more interesting villain than Scarlet. My hypothesis on the matter of Scarlet’s agenda is to act as the punishment to the community for Evon’s lost in the elections as I’ve read several posters claiming the developers were disappointed that Evon lost.
I wasn’t referring to all the Fractals but rather the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal. This was shown to be connected to Scarlet in some manner so there is possibility that Scarlet would of been seen within Abaddon Fractal or somehow had some connection with the fractal in some form or manner.
…kitten .
Try re-reading my post. Because I know you were referring to Thaumanova Reactor. My point is that all Fractals are exploring the past, and that just because one ended up revealing something about Scarlet/being related to Scarlet, doesn’t the other must too.
Actually they could break it with relative ease. If there is enough demand for his return or if they themselves feel his return will make a good story then they will ignore their previous statement.
Oh, they could, but the question is: would they?
And all indications go “no.” While they give nods to the actions of players – be it giving a lore reason to nerfing popular farms (see Kephket and Dhuum), or acknowling player made theories (see Scarlet’s allegiance poster, Ela in this release’s instance, Temple of the Ages about old adventurers, a Piory NPC near Serenity Temple who talks about parties (the player community held an annual masquarade ball there in GW1), and Priory theories on the sylvari which I think are mentioned in Dream and Nightmare blog post) – ArenaNet doesn’t alter large pivot-able parts of their storytelling to the player’s popular demand, the closest we’ve seen for such is the return of mursaat in Eye of the North and War in Kryta. Arguably, the Abaddon fractal was ArenaNet giving the option for Abaddon’s “return” without making it a plot point.
If his return would make a good story, then we may see his return. But honestly, I’m going to remain doubtful of his return.
I have to agree that these claims are annoying. I also doubt Abaddon will be brought back, however he makes a far more interesting villain than Scarlet.
The funny thing is… Abaddon’s has so much less to him himself than Scarlet does. He’s perhaps the least fleshed out major villain of GW1 aside from the Great Destroyer, nor does he even talk, but he’s liked the most.
Kind of humorous.
-snip-.
Because when you provide people with a villain that is just plain evil and has been fleshed out very little it is remarkably easy for them to just accept them as a villain. There is nothing for them to attempt to dislike or attempt to relate to. There are no motives to question etc. Abaddon is an easy villain, that’s why people like him so much. (Not saying that it’s a good thing or that they should, it’s just why.)
Scarlet provides too many opportunities for inconstancies. Partly due to the “living story” setup people are VERY aware of her as a construction. It’s easy to poke holes in something that you can clearly recognise as fake. Of course she is no more fake than any other character in a video game, but she is being slowly introduced in fragments that have a clear distinction between them (each LS release is separated in time, title and function/content). There’s a little too much slippage and people are very aware that there is a team writing her character and writing her into the lore – so she become unbelievable as a character, regardless of how well she actually might be written.
Humorously, however, I see a good deal of people liking Abaddon because his history is heavily implied to be a fallen hero kind of story.
Humorously, however, I see a good deal of people liking Abaddon because his history is heavily implied to be a fallen hero kind of story.
I’ve always thought of it like this, I mean I’d get pretty kittened off too if I gave a blessing to people and they essentially took it away (best way of putting it).
Gotta say, I’m surprised Balthazar wasn’t siding with Abaddon on the whole keep magic as is sorta thing….
I still think we will get somethin Abaddon related (more of a relic of his past sorta like how we went to his temple in Orr). I’m thinking a disciple or two might still be around or something and the Abaddon fractal woulda hunted towards that, then ago I’m just hopeful because I love everything Abaddon stood for xD.
Gotta say, I’m surprised Balthazar wasn’t siding with Abaddon on the whole keep magic as is sorta thing….
I can understand why he might have his reason for restricting magic again. Balthazar might be the god of war, and he loves a good fight as much as everyone else, but he’s a human supremacist first and foremost.
When the gods gifted unrestricted magic to Tyria, they basically gave everyone a bunch of AK-47s and said, “Have fun!”. Abaddon didn’t see a problem with this because of his total belief in the “survival of the fittest” mentality. Balthazar probably had problems because the magical wars after the gift of magic brought humans to the edge of extinction.
If humans had the advantage, and they were killing their enemies left, right, and center and expanding their territory, Balthazar’s opinion might have differed on the subject. But since his favored race was getting killed off, he sided with the other gods on the matter.
It makes sense to me that if the Abaddon fractal had been made, that it would probably have been about the Leylines as well, assuming they become an integral part of Scarlet’s story. I mean, at his fall, Abaddon’s body was thrown down to Tyria and almost destroyed causing the Crystal Sea to turn into a desert, and the place of his fall to become a desolation. Now, up until now, we’ve assumed the transformation of the land came from the impact and his own raw magic, but it’s not crazy to assume that his fall cracked open a Leyline, releasing it’s magic into the environment and wreaking havoc.
Ahem…
And actually, both events lead up to catastrophic changes in Tyria: Thaumanova goes Chernobyl on Metrica and chaos portals begin teleporting creatures all over the world. Abaddon’s fall vaporizes a sea and the epicenter begins to poison the coastline (the Desolation).
I’m beginning to think it’s very likely Scarlet would’ve appeared at the end, in the Temple of the Six Gods as it is being pulled into Torment, bragging “to have learned why Abaddon’s defeat will lead to the turning of a sea into desert among other things; because this place was built upon an intersection of two ley lines, and the impact of a god falling through earth into another realm will be like exploding a nuclear bomb in the ridge between two tectonic plates.” Or something similar.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Scarlet-in-the-Fall-of-Abaddon/first#post3360132
but his eyes seem to glitter with icy cunning, and his countenance is still suffocatingly imposing.
Abaddon didn’t see a problem with this because of his total belief in the “survival of the fittest” mentality.
How do you get survival of the fittest out of “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy”? That’s Abaddon’s motto if we ever had one, straight from the game.
Abaddon is not a survival of the fittest kind of guy – if any powerful entity is that, it is Jormag.
How do you get survival of the fittest out of “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy”? That’s Abaddon’s motto if we ever had one, straight from the game.
Abaddon is not a survival of the fittest kind of guy – if any powerful entity is that, it is Jormag.
“Act without mercy” kinda sums it up. After the gift of magic, humans were getting pushed towards extinction. Yet, Abaddon didn’t seem to care. The only thing he cared about was that the gift of magic was allowed to stay, even if that could have possibly led to the death of the human race.
Maybe it was because his Margonites were thriving with the Gift in place, and he simply turned a blind eye towards the other god’s humans? We will never be able to tell without further information on the matter, but his actions, to me at least, still screams of “survival of the fittest” mentality.
Humans couldn’t handle the Gift of Magic, and they were slowly getting killed off by either their enemies or themselves. So, Abaddon acted without mercy, and he simply didn’t care. If they couldn’t handle the Gift that the gods gave them, well tough luck.
How do you get survival of the fittest out of “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy”? That’s Abaddon’s motto if we ever had one, straight from the game.
Abaddon is not a survival of the fittest kind of guy – if any powerful entity is that, it is Jormag.
“Act without mercy” kinda sums it up. After the gift of magic, humans were getting pushed towards extinction. Yet, Abaddon didn’t seem to care. The only thing he cared about was that the gift of magic was allowed to stay, even if that could have possibly led to the death of the human race.
Maybe it was because his Margonites were thriving with the Gift in place, and he simply turned a blind eye towards the other god’s humans? We will never be able to tell without further information on the matter, but his actions, to me at least, still screams of “survival of the fittest” mentality.
Humans couldn’t handle the Gift of Magic, and they were slowly getting killed off by either their enemies or themselves. So, Abaddon acted without mercy, and he simply didn’t care. If they couldn’t handle the Gift that the gods gave them, well tough luck.
It’s entirely possible that at that point in time there were already tensions between Abaddon and the other gods – if so then why should he care? That’s not survival of the fittest, it’s just not caring.
The funny thing is… Abaddon’s has so much less to him himself than Scarlet does. He’s perhaps the least fleshed out major villain of GW1 aside from the Great Destroyer, nor does he even talk, but he’s liked the most.
Kind of humorous.
In my opinion the amount of lore available about either character is roughly even. Anyways the reason I prefer Abaddon over Scarlet is that I find his origins to be more interesting. Also, in my opinion anyways, I feel there is still a lot Anet could use from Abaddon in not only the current arc but in other arcs.
What of the Lost Scrolls Vizier Khibron used to cause the Cataclysm that sank Orr in the first place? Or the forbidden books he had in his possession? Were they items of Abaddon that were hidden away by his worshipers when the other five gods erased him from the pages of history? Or perhaps they are far older than any of the human gods, possibly things he inherit after acquiring his powers from that old depose god?
What of Shiro Tagachi? We do not know what happened to his soul after his defeat within the Temple of the Six gods.
Or since he is the God of Secrets, it is possible Abaddon had in his possession ancient text of the previous races concerning the Elder Dragons.
I somehow doubt that souls can survive being destroyed – it’s said those souls “killed” in the mortal world are sent into the Mists, but what of souls “killed” in the Mists? Souls have to eventually disappear somehow (be it reincarnation or their energy dissipating), otherwise the Mists would literally have to be infinite as does The Underworld and other multi-racial afterlives.
I somehow doubt that souls can survive being destroyed – it’s said those souls “killed” in the mortal world are sent into the Mists, but what of souls “killed” in the Mists? Souls have to eventually disappear somehow (be it reincarnation or their energy dissipating), otherwise the Mists would literally have to be infinite as does The Underworld and other multi-racial afterlives.
That’s what I thought but I double checked the guild wars wiki to find it states the current fate of his soul is unknown, so it may be possible they either had further plans for him or left it such they could reimplemented him whenever they felt like.
It’s only unknown because we don’t really know what happens to a soul when “killed” in the Mists. We never heard from Shiro again nor do we receive any indication that he and Khilbron’s souls would have survived.
Yeah it’s not Abaddon, Shiro, Varesh nor Vizier Khilbron.
Yeah it’s not Abaddon, Shiro, Varesh nor Vizier Khilbron.
So Palawa Joko and the Mursaat are still possibilities?
Yeah it’s not Abaddon, Shiro, Varesh nor Vizier Khilbron.
So Palawa Joko and the Mursaat are still possibilities?
why the hell would palawa joko or the mursaat make any of this? seriously, just throwing names for lulz is not theorycrafting. you can claim queen jennah is behind everything and it would be just as productive to the discussion.
why the hell would palawa joko or the mursaat make any of this? seriously, just throwing names for lulz is not theorycrafting. you can claim queen jennah is behind everything and it would be just as productive to the discussion.
Shhh you only encourage those kinds of speculations.
I’ll admit I was joking when I mention Palawa Joko but was actually being serious with the Mursaat.
The Mursaat have a perfect opportunity to return to the forefront. The Elder Dragons have awaken and while one was defeated by the races of this cycle, it came at great cost. How many did Zhaitan’s army kill before and during the campaign against him? There is going to be people that will feel this was a pyrrhic victory and be easy prey for the Mursaat manipulations.
Also if I just wanted to throw names for laughs I would of said Kormir or Trahearne was behind it. Or just to really get the crazy speculations going the possibility we might see the actual implementation of Arachnia and the other “gods of insectoid beings” mention in the gw.dat of the original game.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.