Guild Wars 2

So I took my time to look thoroughly through the room at the end of the episode and there were some things that grabbed my attention interestingly. Most coming from the holoprojector, and focus around two things: Scarlet’s age, and Scarlet’s interactions with the entity.

Point 1: Scarlet’s Age
Firstly, regarding Scarlet’s age, the holoprojector has a recording which says the following:

“Today I am sixteen cycles old, and to celebrate, I’ve been testing my first steam portal with steam minotaurs. The last batch actually made it in one piece.”

And just preceding such is:

“I’ve landed a lab assistant position with Omadd, an intelligent but overly gentle asura. I should be able to wrap him around my little finger.”

According to previous knowledge (learned during Tower of Nightmares’ aftermath), Omadd was the one who got Scarlet into the colleges, so one can presume that the mention of being a lab assistant preludes her joining the colleges. What’s interesting to note is that the written diary mentions that she will stop writing – take into consideration the diary from Season 1 which ends with 1323 AE, this means that she was younger than 16 by that point. However, she’s 16 before becoming Scarlet Briar – which we know for certain due to the Thaumanova situation to occur before 1325 AE. This means that the recordings of at least the first to until she says “I have seen the Eternal Alchemy.” is within that 2 year timespan – presuming that there is no oversight. (Side note: though the holograms in A Study in Scarlet include stuff that was pre-renaming herself, unlike this hologram she keeps the same tone and name throughout, which I will get to later as it is something else that caught my interest).

Now, as the sylvari Firstborn were born in 1302 AE, and the Secondborn born 6-7 years later (thus 1308-1309 AE). Well, 16 years before 1325 AE is 1309 AE and 16 years prior to 1323 AE is 1307 AE.

This means that Scarlet Briar is a Secondborn. And the “I am sixteen years old now” bit happened in either 1324 or 1325 AE – the latter unlikely given Thaumanova and how many lines there are before she becomes Scarlet Briar. And even then, it is after she becomes Scarlet Briar that she becomes interested in ley lines (also more on this later).

This means that Scarlet was most likely born in the first of the two years of Secondborn, but after Mender Serimon. Interesting that this has never actually been brought up.

Something interesting to note, however, is the fully lack of mention of nightmares or a voice in her head in the holo-recordings, indicating that maybe there was an oversight with that mention of no more written diaries.

And this said though, it should be noted that she only went to Prosperity after becoming Scarlet Briar, which itself is interesting too, given Aerin and the theory of Mordy’s corruption being a distance thing with plants (or at least sylvari). Makes me wonder where Omadd’s machine was.

Point 2: Scarlet’s Voice – Ceara versus Scarlet Briar
Perhaps the most fascinating thing to me about hte hologram is that she begins with a cheerful (and not the mockingly cheerful we’re used to) voice and the hologram is named Ceara. However, halfway through, with the line “I have seen the Eternal Alchemy.” the recordings change. The name goes to Scarlet Briar, and her voice becomes menacing – and distorted, which I find to be the weirdest part.

To go off of the first side note above: her name is always Scarlet Briar and her voice always menacing in A Study in Scarlet for those holograms, meaning that those holograms are not recordings of the time, but recollections of Scarlet Briar – reenactments done for her recordings. Perhaps a ploy to remind herself who she is with that encroaching voice in her head?

During Season 1 when we first got her diary, there was note in the voice change, and said that it was important. It seems that they’re keeping up with that as we delve further into her history.

The distortion I find intriging, and I wonder what caused it. If we subscribe to the “entity is Mordremoth and Scarlet was his corrupted into his champion” then one could argue it was distorted because it’s _magi_tech, and she was unknowingly consuming some of the magic in it, making it function at less than optimal amounts.

Point 3: Scarlet and the ley lines
Though we see stuff about ley lines in what have been calling a drawing of the Realm of Torment (the characters call it a sylvari’s view of Tyria, mapping the ley lines, with the Pale Tree in the center of it all – I doubt it, personally, on both accounts) with the hologram recorder though, she only mentions ley line study after becoming Scarlet Briar.

This – as well as her buying a room in Prosperity after becoming Scarlet, with her inquisitions on the ley line beneath the mines – indicates to me that all her interest in those came from the entity, and it may be possible that as Ceara, she never had an interest in them.

Point 4: The Coffin with Tentacles
This is another thing that intrigues me. What was the purpose of this apparent “coffin” that had tentacles coming out of it? A prison for Mordremoth? A bio-engineered cyberminion of Mordremoth’s? An imprisoned kraken? Hard to say. But looking at the diagram, my thoughts went to Rata Sum with that cube shape.

I thought the blueprint was that of the sensory deprivation device.

Isn’t that device Omadd’s, not Scarlet’s?

It’s interesting, as a Secondborn Scarlet has several important sylvari in her generation.

Cadeyrn (founder of the Nightmare Court), Canach (the terrorist), Amaranda (the sylvari that “reads” Malyck’s “Dream”), Laranthir (of the Pact). Arguably more influential than the Firstborn (Caithe and Trahearne being the most notable iirc).

I love the wiki’s quote from Caithe about Secondborn.

Caithe: Why should she care? She has thousands of children now, Cadeyrn. You are either firstborn…or you are simply sylvari.

We need Jerry Springer in Tyria. The Pale Tree seems to be doing a poor job as a mother.

Canach had very little to say about Scarlet.

Player: Do you know Scarlet?
Canach: I briefly met Scarlet when she was still called Ceara, but we were not at all compatible. Ceara was distracted and flighty and full of slight regard, and I do not enjoy being slighted.

How many sylvari in the Secondborn? I vaguely recall the sylvari were born exponentially faster as the generations progressed, but weren’t the Secondborn somewhat limited in number?

I asked that_shaman to pull the blueprint texture from the gw2.dat; I’ve attached it below. The text is quite small but it may be possible to translate it yet. I have screenshots of everything else I found in Scarlet’s room, so I’ll transcribe them here.

“The Nature of Dragons” by Ogden Stonehealer
Or, should I say the “Dragons of Nature”? Yes. Dragons have long been thought to be as much a part of Tyria as the sun, moon, land, and seas. No one, not even the dwarves, know how long they’ve been here. The jotun and the norn both have lingering stories passed down through the generations about the last rise of the dragons. Most scholars give these tales little credit, unfortunately, kitten much time has passed. It was over ten thousand years ago that the dragons last returned to their slumber. The very existence of these tales, however, indicates that the dragons have awakened at least twice in history. Ancient documents, found now in the Durmand Priory’s collection, reveal accounts passed down by other races such as the powerful Seers and even the human gods themselves.

“A Treatise on the Mental Puppeteering of Golems” by Snaff
Some scholars theorize that magic flows through all things, that we swim in magic as fish swim in water, or as we ourselves live in air. This magic is said to ebb and flow via currents called ley lines. Magic infuses everything in the world. The building blocks of reality are held together by magic. With the right connectors, manipulating magical elements with the mind becomes possible.The mind is a powerful and fragile quantity in the world equation and the Eternal Alchemy. It came move mountains, or it can be shattered like glass. My research has found a thread between magic and the mind. The two are linked. Where there is one, there must also be the other. The igniter is belief.

This scrap of paper has handwriting on it. It says, “Note to self: Explore the idea of a mobile waypoint. Can travel happen at my whim?”

An official certificate indicates that Ceara has received honorary student status with the College of Dynamics. This permits her to audit classes in a non-degree capacity.

This sheet of paper says, “What could it be?” followed by a list of thoughts.

1. “An ancient pool of magic trapped beneath the surface of the world? Like those believed to infuse the waters at Bergen with healing properties?”
2. “A tear in the veil between here and the Mists? Perhaps the abundance of magic there is leaking into our world?”
3. “Ley lines? Could it be that they truly do exist? If so, this is where my life truly begins. Right here. Right now.”

Dear diary. Writing longhand is for the birds. I’ve discovered a device of asuran origin that will allow me to record my journal from this point forward. Do not think that I am ungrateful to you. But, I must continue to evolve at every moment. The future awaits us all, and I plan to be amazing when it comes. This will be my last entry as an ink-splattering student. Starting tomorrow, I am a researcher, an engineer, and a visionary. I confess to a mixture of fear and excitement. I believe I’ve found one of these mythical ley lines, and if I can study it, well…my understanding of Tyria’s inner workings will increase in leaps and bounds! Who knows what the future will hold?

A partially disassembled steam minotaur.

(see attached):

This set of blueprints appears to have been redrawn several times. A coffin-like device has tentacles coming off it, in all directions.

This handwritten notebook bears the stamp of Omadd, Scarlet’s last mentor.
“The device works on the principle that the mind is connected to magic, and therefore, if properly opened, one should be able to grasp the entire Eternal Alchemy as a bird views the landscape far below. My sylvari assistant will try it next. I am hopeful that she, with her innate connection to the sylvari Dream, will be a better subject than those who’ve gone before. I’ve grown rather fond of her and would hate to have her mind broken as well. I’ve tweaked and twiddled the settings as described below. I’m sure she’ll be fine.”

The “Realm of Torment” image:

This hand-drawn image is more symbolic than literal. It shows the world as a machine with various moving parts. The Pale Tree sits at its heart.

Finally, Scarlet’s holo-recording:

Taimi: “Scruffy, I need my supplies.”
Taimi: “Ooh ooh ooh ooh! Look!”
Ceara: “Holomagic is amazing. I’ll use it to record my life, my failures, and my successes. Scholars of the future will study them. Are you out there, scholars?” (laugh)
Taimi: “I’m here, Scarlet. I’m here.”
Ceara: “My black-market dredge contacts continue to prove useful. For a little gold, they sell me their scrap iron so I can build my steam minotaurs.”
Ceara: “I’ve landed a lab assistant position with Omadd, an intelligent but overly gentle asura. I should be able to wrap him around my little finger.”
Ceara: “Today I am sixteen cycles old, and to celebrate, I’ve been testing my first steam portal with steam minotaurs. The last batch actually made it in one piece.”
Taimi: “Can it be? My goodness.”
Ceara: “I noted the tiniest hint of intelligence in a steam brain today as it studied one of the portals. Fascinating.”
Taimi: “So that’s how it works.”
Ceara: “One in three steam creatures is being destroyed by my portals. I must find a solution.”
Ceara: “I have not yet had the courage to travel through one of my portals myself. I need to strengthen the form resonator first.”
Ceara: “I may have created a new sentient being. My steam brains are mimicking my building techniques, designing their own version of the steam portal.”
Taimi: “Hm.”
Ceara: “Omadd agrees that I’m ready for the mind-opening device. Tomorrow is the day.”
Scarlet Briar: “I saw it all. I saw the Eternal Alchemy.”
Scarlet Briar: (breathes) “I killed Omadd, my mentor. I am no one’s lab rat.”
Taimi: “Oh, Scarlet. What happened to you?”
Scarlet Briar: “The ley line hub is real. I found it, and I’m making preparations to study it. I’ve purchased a room in Prosperity with some of Omadd’s gold.
Taimi: “Interesting!"
Scarlet Briar: “The steam brains have shown ingenuity. When threatened, they build steam minotaurs from whatever materials they can find.”
Scarlet Briar: “I’ve used a portal to send most of my steam creature prototypes into Lornar’s Pass and Brisban Wildlands. I no longer need them.”
Taimi: “Scruffy, log entry.”

That’s all I saw in there, although I’m sure it’s possible I missed something.

It’s a small point anyway, but I’m not sold that Ceara was secondborn- that would have required Mender Serimon to already be holding that job perhaps as soon as a couple days after he awoke. Seeing as we don’t know how long passed between the secondborn and thirdborn, and that the firstborn (our only point of comparison) are made out to have all awoken within a pretty narrow window, I would guess that Ceara was thirdborn, coming in the same year as the secondborn but with enough time between them for Serimon to progress beyond being a sapling himself.

@Shiren The device is Omadd’s, but just under the blueprint Scarlet had Omadd’s journal and the book Omadd seemed to have based his theory off of. She wqouldn’t have had any qualms about taking his schematics while she was at it.

Personally, coming away from this- I think we may have been overstating the connection between Scarlet’s insanity and the voices in her head. Between the indication that Ceara was struggling with the entity before going into the machine and the reaffirmation that she didn’t break until Omadd’s experiment, I’m tempted to say that we have no reason to say they’re interlinked at all. My working theory is that what she saw in the machine wasn’t the entity, and possibly had nothing to do with the entity, but it was enough to break her mind, which left her unable to effectively resist the entity’s… suggestions? Compulsions? Still unclear on that bit.

EDIT: Also, how in the Realm of Torment did Marjory find out about the contents of Scarlet’s vision?

Dear diary. Writing longhand is for the birds. I’ve discovered a device of asuran origin that will allow me to record my journal from this point forward. Do not think that I am ungrateful to you. But, I must continue to evolve at every moment. The future awaits us all, and I plan to be amazing when it comes. This will be my last entry as an ink-splattering student. Starting tomorrow, I am a researcher, an engineer, and a visionary. I confess to a mixture of fear and excitement. I believe I’ve found one of these mythical ley lines, and if I can study it, well…my understanding of Tyria’s inner workings will increase in leaps and bounds! Who knows what the future will hold?

I have to place this entry at least 2 years before before she went into Omadd’s device. She had been studying ley lines while a student. It would be surprising that with as much interest as she shows here, it would be years before she actually came into contact with a ley line.

Shiren.9532:

How many sylvari in the Secondborn? I vaguely recall the sylvari were born exponentially faster as the generations progressed, but weren’t the Secondborn somewhat limited in number?

We don’t know their numbers – yet – we just have 5 named confirmed members. Ceara would make 6.

Tamias.7059:

Finally, Scarlet’s holo-recording:
-snip-
That’s all I saw in there, although I’m sure it’s possible I missed something.

Just to note, Taimi’s lines were unrelated to the holo-recording except for “I’m here, Scarlet. I’m here.”

The rest just randomly occur as she goes about the room. I remained in there while writing up this thread and she just repeated those things over and over.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

It’s a small point anyway, but I’m not sold that Ceara was secondborn- that would have required Mender Serimon to already be holding that job perhaps as soon as a couple days after he awoke. Seeing as we don’t know how long passed between the secondborn and thirdborn, and that the firstborn (our only point of comparison) are made out to have all awoken within a pretty narrow window, I would guess that Ceara was thirdborn, coming in the same year as the secondborn but with enough time between them for Serimon to progress beyond being a sapling himself.

The oldest Secondborn would be 17 years old by 1325 AE. The youngest would be 16.

She HAS to be a Secondborn, reason being: She was Scarlet Briar after she turned 16. And she was Scarlet Briar in early 1325 AE or late 1324 AE – reason we know this: Steam Incursion meta event and Thaumanova Reactor explosion. She was Scarlet Briar when both happened, and both happened very recently. In 1325 AE, the youngest Secondborn would be 1309 would be 16. So she has t obe in the older half of the Secondborn (those born 6 years after the Firstborn rather than those born 7 years after), so that she would thus be 16 in 1324 AE.

If she turned 16 any sooner, then she would be older than the Secondborn.

And yes, it means that she was “Scarlet Briar” for about 2 years when we met her.

It’s the only way the timeline makes sense. Any other outcome means “ArenaNet flubbed up with this episode alone.” Because even if you ignore all we learned in Season 1, this is the only logical conclusion: she turned 16 sometime in 1324 AE.

Furthermore, the recordings – I realize upon thinking further – have to be based during the time that she was studying under Synergetics, with the Inquest, or under Omadd after her hiding. The timeline doesn’t make sense either way.

But what this means is that the hand-written journal from Season 1 HAD to be finished writing while Scarlet knew of asura technology (she spent ~1 year in each college and several months later in hiding, which would put her at the latest joining the first college in 1322 or 1323 AE, but more likely 1321/1322). Which means her holo-recordings didn’t begin when she first entered the colleges, but sometime after.

It is the only possible way to make sense of this confusion that is her timeline.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Personally, coming away from this- I think we may have been overstating the connection between Scarlet’s insanity and the voices in her head. Between the indication that Ceara was struggling with the entity before going into the machine and the reaffirmation that she didn’t break until Omadd’s experiment, I’m tempted to say that we have no reason to say they’re interlinked at all.

Yeah, I was beginning to think such as well.

My question becomes, however, “when did Ceara first enter Dry Top, and how far west did she go?”

I think this may be suitable evidence to argue that the entity is not Mordremoth after all. At least per the current theorycrafting. According to my calculations in Scarlet’s timeline, she first met the entity while studying under the asura – the entire journal from S1 would take place during her studying Dynamics and Statics (possibly Synergetics at the end too).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Also, how in the Realm of Torment did Marjory find out about the contents of Scarlet’s vision?

I was wondering this as well.

I’m guessing she got the Pale Tree to talk, because other than recordings we never knew of, the Pale Tree would be the only source.

DarcShriek.5829:

I have to place this entry at least 2 years before before she went into Omadd’s device. She had been studying ley lines while a student. It would be surprising that with as much interest as she shows here, it would be years before she actually came into contact with a ley line.

I’m thinking more of a year. Perhaps a little less. Her Steam creature prototypes had to be built in 1324 AE, given the 16 years old comment, and that seems to be her first holo-recording, and given the S1 journal, the one we find here was likely written afterward, thus written after spring of 1323 AE when that first one ended, thus the second journal was writen in later 1323 AE or 1324 AE before her birthday. The recordings would also put her becoming Scarlet Briar at 16 (per the above stated Thaumanova explosion, and the Steam creature incursion into Lornar’s).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

It’s a small point anyway, but I’m not sold that Ceara was secondborn- that would have required Mender Serimon to already be holding that job perhaps as soon as a couple days after he awoke. Seeing as we don’t know how long passed between the secondborn and thirdborn, and that the firstborn (our only point of comparison) are made out to have all awoken within a pretty narrow window, I would guess that Ceara was thirdborn, coming in the same year as the secondborn but with enough time between them for Serimon to progress beyond being a sapling himself.

The oldest Secondborn would be 17 years old by 1325 AE. The youngest would be 16.

She HAS to be a Secondborn, reason being: She was Scarlet Briar after she turned 16. And she was Scarlet Briar in early 1325 AE or late 1324 AE – reason we know this: Steam Incursion meta event and Thaumanova Reactor explosion. She was Scarlet Briar when both happened, and both happened very recently. In 1325 AE, the youngest Secondborn would be 1309 would be 16. So she has t obe in the older half of the Secondborn (those born 6 years after the Firstborn rather than those born 7 years after), so that she would thus be 16 in 1324 AE.

If she turned 16 any sooner, then she would be older than the Secondborn.

And yes, it means that she was “Scarlet Briar” for about 2 years when we met her.

It’s the only way the timeline makes sense. Any other outcome means “ArenaNet flubbed up with this episode alone.” Because even if you ignore all we learned in Season 1, this is the only logical conclusion: she turned 16 sometime in 1324 AE.

Only if every sylvari born that year was secondborn. Do you see what I’m saying? The Firstborn all came in a very compact timespan. I’ve always thought of them as being spread across no more than a week, and iirc at least five awoke in the first 24 hours. If the secondborn awoke in a similarly compact timespan, or even if they were spread as far apart as a month, there’d still be room for a few months afterwards with no awakenings, and then the thirdborn (Ceara among them)waking, in the same year.

So you’re trying to say that she wasn’t a Secondborn, when she was born in 1308 AE, and the Secondborn were born from 1308 to 1309 AE? She had to be 16 in 1324 or earlier, given that she was 16 as Ceara, and unleashed steam creatures and caused the Thaumanova explosion (early 1325/late 1324) as Scarlet Briar.; being 16 in 1324 would put her at born in 1308 AE, the same year as the older “half” (half in regards to the timespan of their birth, not their numbers) of the Secondborn.

I don’t think your argument can fly, it just doesn’t make sense. Because she was obviously born in the first of two years that the Secondborn were.

It just means that Serimon was one of the earlier Secondborn, or was a Firstborn and is yet to be called a Firstborn (it wouldn’t be surprising given there are three Firstborn we don’t know about, but it would be weird that no one calls him a Firstborn when all Firstborn who’s locations are known are talked about). While it feels unlikely that he was a mender and helping newborn when he himself wasn’t that old, it’s the only logical explanation given what we know of Scarlet Briar.

I don’t understand though : if she was already Scarlet when she moved to prosperity, why bring her old journal with her ? Especially when she’s been using her new journal that much.

(Maybe there’s no explanation, it’s just something that I find weird).

I remember Angel referring to Caithe as Scarlet’s ‘boss’ being a firstborn and all when explaining Scarlet’s trouble with taking orders and the two not getting along.
That statement made only a little sense assuming Ceara was one of the tenthousand other Sylvari, though if Ceara was a Secondborn… yeah obviously they’d be bound to clash that way.

+ Canach is a Secondborn too and knew her as well, always felt a little odd for him to conveniently know her as a random Sylvari.

Maybe they didn’t want to mention Ceara being a Secondborn directly after realizing how much Sue they’ve packed into her background-story back then ’cuz it only would have added to that at a time…

I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/31676/Scarlet-Briar-is-Dead-TShirt-Giveaway

The T-Shirts are “official” which means Scarlet was born in 1304.

@Elysian: That’s odd, given that Caithe was a traveler and rarely in the Grove. It seems weird that she would have a “student” in the Grove.

I doubt they ever realized how much Sue-dom they packed into Scarlet, and to be honest, explaining that she was able to do all this as a sylvari because she’s been around long enough (aka was a Secondborn), that’d actually reduce her Sue-dom.

@Frosch: That makes even less sense. The Firstborn were born in 1302 AE – this is canonically stated as fact in the novels’ timelines. The Secondborn were outright said by Ree Soesbee to be born 6-7 years after the Firstborn, thus placing them to be born in 1308-1309 AE. It’s also stated in-game that the Firstborn were born 4 per day (1 per cycle per day) for 3 days. There were no sylvari born between 1303 and 1307 AE.

That t-shirt is a blatant contradiction of canon lore (and kind of shows to what a clusterkitten Scarlet’s lore is). I’m betting that whomever designed that t-shirt didn’t get fact checked.

And that t-shirt has further convinced me that they no longer have narrative continuity designers. Even if Angel and Scott call themselves such, and Jeff and Ree have been nowhere to be seen in their actions on the game.

@Konig

I don’t think it was meant to be a student-mentor-relationship comparison. With all the lore spreadout through the internet I’ve forgotten where exactly the interview was or which one it was, but it was merely about them not getting along because Caithe’s status as a firstborn places her above Ceara which indicated they clashed for some time in the past. Hence the Caithe being her ‘boss’ thing.

Also, I don’t think it would have reduced her suedom in any way. We knew how many years she’s been studying most things from her blog-post anyway, putting a secondborn label on her would have merely raised another ‘special snowflake’ flag.
They put in the ToN release that she’s not a firstborn when asked about her awakening and by then the writers had caught on their… uh… character creation and exposition disaster to put it mildly. That’s why I assume they left out any direct mention of her being secondborn.

Also that t-shirt lol wat.

That room just made me miss Scarlet more.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Elysian: That’s odd, given that Caithe was a traveler and rarely in the Grove. It seems weird that she would have a “student” in the Grove.

I doubt they ever realized how much Sue-dom they packed into Scarlet, and to be honest, explaining that she was able to do all this as a sylvari because she’s been around long enough (aka was a Secondborn), that’d actually reduce her Sue-dom.

@Frosch: That makes even less sense. The Firstborn were born in 1302 AE – this is canonically stated as fact in the novels’ timelines. The Secondborn were outright said by Ree Soesbee to be born 6-7 years after the Firstborn, thus placing them to be born in 1308-1309 AE. It’s also stated in-game that the Firstborn were born 4 per day (1 per cycle per day) for 3 days. There were no sylvari born between 1303 and 1307 AE.

That t-shirt is a blatant contradiction of canon lore (and kind of shows to what a clusterkitten Scarlet’s lore is). I’m betting that whomever designed that t-shirt didn’t get fact checked.

And that t-shirt has further convinced me that they no longer have narrative continuity designers. Even if Angel and Scott call themselves such, and Jeff and Ree have been nowhere to be seen in their actions on the game.

Maybe Scarlet’s pod was blown off during a freak wind storm and she was born early.

I would have to agree that they seemed to have fudged up her timeline a bit. 1304 seems a bit too early for her to have been born, on top of it already being against canon, but I really don’t agree with her being a Secondborn either. I’m more in line of thought with Aaron, with her being a close third cycle Sylvari or maybe even a fourth cycle.

After eight years of voracious study in the Grove, Ceara had learned all she cared to from her extended family. Her people were accomplished hands at many key disciplines, but they couldn’t provide the depth of knowledge she craved. She wanted to construct systems as complex as the ones she saw in nature, to build machines as sublime as the living things she saw each and every day. Her greatest joy as a student came from testing those established systems to expose their flaws in aid of strengthening her own designs.

She learned much from the master engineers among her people, but theirs were simple meals that could not sate her hunger. Ceara decided to strike out into the world to find something that could.

If she was a Secondborn, she wouldn’t have much of an extended family to learn engineering from. Unless of course, some of those Firstborns are hiding their master engineering skills.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This – as well as her buying a room in Prosperity after becoming Scarlet, with her inquisitions on the ley line beneath the mines – indicates to me that all her interest in those came from the entity, and it may be possible that as Ceara, she never had an interest in them.

Her hologram said that her experience in Omad’s machine confirmed the existence of ley lines, which to me indicates that she was interested in them before she was aware of the entity.

One thing to consider regarding the Secondborn label:

Do we know how many Secondborn there were, and over how long a period of time? if there were hundreds of them born over, say, a year, then this would stop secondborn being a special snowflake. It’s a significant point in Cadeyrne’s story when Caithe points out that secondborn is nothing special – you’re either firstborn or part of the mass of other sylvari; extrapolating from this, it does seem as if being secondborn says nothing special to the sylvari except that you were born at a particular time. If Ceara was part the the later group of Secondborn, this would also allow for the Mender’s presence – many sylvari have been able to take up their role within days of dropping from the tree, so Serimon could well have only needed a few weeks in order to take up his position and be in place to (attempt to) welcome Ceara into the world.

Wanderer.3248:

Her hologram said that her experience in Omad’s machine confirmed the existence of ley lines, which to me indicates that she was interested in them before she was aware of the entity.

She likely knew of them via her studies in Synergetics, but for asura it’s been only theory. Confirmation doesn’t mean she had an interest, just heard of the theories, really.

@drax: I remember a discussion with either Canach during The Lost Shores, or Laranthir in the PS (perhaps both) where if you’re a sylvari it is mentioned that Secondborn are looked up to but not as much as Firstborn.

To the Pale Tree (and/or Caithe/Firstborn), Secondborn are nothing of importance, but to the younger sylvari they are figureheads.

Konig, good to see you are still digging in the lore. You are legend!

In viewpoint of Firstborn-Secondborn-Thirdborn etc…

There is mention of Ceara/Scarlet being 16 cycles old.
This just popped into my mind and post it before I forget,
but every ‘tier’ of born Sylvari’s seem to be happening within 1 cycle. And not every cycle brings a new batch of Sylvarii. Else we would have had a lot more generations of Sylvarii.

Makes me wonder what tier of generation us as players would be.

Anyways Scarlet is secondborn no doubt about that.
I am curious about a LOT more things, but I think the details come to us within weeks in LS content. Also the Worldcup just kicked off for my country (Netherlands) so untill next time XD

Tamias.7059:

Ancient documents, found now in the Durmand Priory’s collection, reveal accounts passed down by other races such as the powerful Seers and even the human gods themselves.

So the human gods apparently knew about the EDs. The suspicion was always that since they appeared in the period between ED hibernation and awakening that they didn’t know that they built their capital on top of the Elder Undead Dragon Zhaitan.

Tamias.7059:

My sylvari assistant will try it next. I am hopeful that she, with her innate connection to the sylvari Dream, will be a better subject than those who’ve gone before.

So we might have an army of half-crazed-scarlets running around. Although maybe they’re just in some Asuran mental asylum.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think this may be suitable evidence to argue that the entity is not Mordremoth after all.

That and he was asleep during that time, and so far we have little evidence of EDs being able exert much influence over the world while in hibernation (the Asura were tapping one and the Charr practically lived next to one). Mordy could be the exception since EDs do have a number of differences among them.

RedStar.4218:

I don’t understand though : if she was already Scarlet when she moved to prosperity, why bring her old journal with her ? Especially when she’s been using her new journal that much.

(Maybe there’s no explanation, it’s just something that I find weird).

Sentimentality? Also having visited her secret lab previously and now her old room I’m pretty sure Scarlet is a bit of a hoarder.

pzyonix.1645:

In viewpoint of Firstborn-Secondborn-Thirdborn etc…

There is mention of Ceara/Scarlet being 16 cycles old.
This just popped into my mind and post it before I forget,
but every ‘tier’ of born Sylvari’s seem to be happening within 1 cycle. And not every cycle brings a new batch of Sylvarii. Else we would have had a lot more generations of Sylvarii.

Makes me wonder what tier of generation us as players would be.

Anyways Scarlet is secondborn no doubt about that.
I am curious about a LOT more things, but I think the details come to us within weeks in LS content. Also the Worldcup just kicked off for my country (Netherlands) so untill next time XD

Per devs, there is only “Firstborn” (which we have learned were born in 1302 AE), the “Secondborn” (which we have learned were born in 1308 and/or 1309 AE), and then “everyone else”.

Thirdborn is a fully fan-made term to describe that “everyone else”. We were told that at first sylvari birth was exceeding rare – so rare that 6 years passed between Firstborn and Secondborn. There was a gap between Secondborn and the next generation, but it was smaller; and there was a gap after that generation, but yet again smaller, and kept on getting smaller and smaller of a gap until there is the rate of sylvari characters being made (so the dev explanation was). But all the generations born after the Secondborn are just “everyone else” in sylvari generation.

Theoretically, if we knew how bit the gap between the Secondborn and following group of born sylvari were, then we’d be able to make an educated guess as to how many generations there are in full.

But the Firstborn were born in the course of 3 days, while Secondborn were apparently born over the course of, well, unknown, and each subsequent “generation” lasted longer in being born, with shorter breaks between them.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/17676-arenanet-dream-and-nightmare/page__st__210#entry842850

Cadeyrn’s fall from grace happens over the course of a few years, not all at once; the events are separated in time. There is a total passage of about five years from the beginning to the end of the story. It feels a bit ‘rushed’ because it’s all told in succession, as the blog posts have to be, to try to keep them small. The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Wanderer.3248:

Her hologram said that her experience in Omad’s machine confirmed the existence of ley lines, which to me indicates that she was interested in them before she was aware of the entity.

She likely knew of them via her studies in Synergetics, but for asura it’s been only theory. Confirmation doesn’t mean she had an interest, just heard of the theories, really.

NO. Confirmation of the ley lines means that one or more have been discovered and they are no longer theories but fact. The fact that she mentions them is evidence of her interest. It’s time you rethought your theories about Scarlet, some of them appear to be unraveling.

Just some food for thought, but do we know what day the sylvari consider as their birthday? Because technically there are 2 possible choices. When the spark of life hits them and they come into existence inside the dream or when they are released into the real world. I don’t know if they notice the passage of time inside the dream or not, but if they can why would they start counting from their “real” birth instead of from their “dream” birth? And i’m sure the Pale Tree could tell them their real age, if they didn’t count it for themself^^
If i remember correctly the oldest sylvari are supposed to be around 25? in 1325 even so they were released first in 1302. But if they count from the moment they awoke inside the dream, that would make sense to me. This would mean that the firstborne awoke inside the Dream in 1300 and were released 2 years later into the real world.
So even that scarlet t-shirt would make sense with 1304 being her dreambirth and then her real birth happing later. So her turning 16 could be in 1320 even if she only was around for less than 12 years in the real world.

The last written Diary: i wouldn’t count so much on her writing that she won’t use a paper diary ever again. She could have changed her mind later on. Think about new year’s resolutions and how many of them are actually kept. And her Holograms so far were more about her own greatness/achievments/experiments and not about what demons haunted her. Scarlet dosn’t strike me as the person to record a “i’m not feeling well today” in her research log.

The ley-line picture: It looks like it uses the same pattern as the realm of torment and i guess this is were the similaritys end. Scarlet wanted to know how the world works, so maybe she just found one of the pattern that make up the world. You know, like how atoms arrange themself but for magic or something.

SoulyD.9125:

Just some food for thought, but do we know what day the sylvari consider as their birthday? Because technically there are 2 possible choices. When the spark of life hits them and they come into existence inside the dream or when they are released into the real world.

Doubtful it would be from the moment they awaken in the dream as there’s no reliable means of determining the date or time from within the dream. Unless there’s some external sign of this happening that someone else outside the dream can take note of.

Having replayed this a few more times, I noticed a couple of other things:

Kasmeer and Taimi both seem to think that Scarlet came to Prosperity as a student. This May conflict with dates, and they could be wrong, but its what they both say.

There is mention of her seeking a ley line hub near to Prosperity. This kind-of conflicts with her not knowing of ley lines before Omad’s machine. Also, if she found a hub in Prosperity, why drill in Lions Arch? I find this a bit confusing.

Kasmeer and the player both make mention of the Dragons being a part of something bigger. I can’t help but wonder if this relates to both Omad’s machine and the entity, and ley lines.

Twice in the story, Scarlet is referred to as the tip of the iceberg. Make of that what you will.

Wanderer.3248:

Also, if she found a hub in Prosperity, why drill in Lions Arch?

This is easy. She also destroyed Thaumanova. I have no clue if we are arguing about the ley-line which belongs to Thaumanova (we aren’t far away), but she also has a map of the far shiverpeaks in the breachmaker. She worked with all ley-lines, let’s see what she did with this intersection.

Wanderer.3248:

Kasmeer and the player both make mention of the Dragons being a part of something bigger. I can’t help but wonder if this relates to both Omad’s machine and the entity, and ley lines.

Twice in the story, Scarlet is referred to as the tip of the iceberg. Make of that what you will.

We know nothing about the world and how it works. The dragon are stated to be a natural force, so why we need to kill them? We are still at the tip of the iceberg. I am really interested what we will see next part and then I maybe offer what we’ve missed about Zhaitan.

I think SoulyD has it – when she was still of relatively sound mind she may have been happy to record everything by holoprojector, but the Entity corrupting her mind may have been something she’d have preferred to keep on paper – for greater privacy, because pen and ink, however, archaic, feels more personal, or some other reason.

Regarding the dragons: Hurricanes and tsunamis and such are natural forces too, but most governments have an interest in at least reducing the risk of natural disasters striking their country.

Regarding the blueprint: while the left image really does look like Rata-Sum, minus the council chamber, the right one make makes me think of the Conundrum Cubed jumping puzzle (the one north-west of Mount Maelstrom).
Just my guess, but this puzzle would make an acceptable candidate for the Omadd device, being in an inquest-infested area, but obviously destroyed and invaded by vines and roots. Do we have any backstory provided on this puzzle?
Anyway, I find it strange to have a description that doesn’t match in the slightest. I don’t see any coffin-like device, nor tentacles, on the blueprint. Maybe it is just reused visual, this wouldn’t be the first of its kind. Would be strange to put it in a hint-heavy area though, and I don’t remember seeing it anywhere before.

/random rant

Tamias.7059:

Finally, Scarlet’s holo-recording:

Taimi: “Scruffy, I need my supplies.”
Taimi: “Ooh ooh ooh ooh! Look!”
Ceara: “Holomagic is amazing. I’ll use it to record my life, my failures, and my successes. Scholars of the future will study them. Are you out there, scholars?” (laugh)
Taimi: “I’m here, Scarlet. I’m here.”
Ceara: “My black-market dredge contacts continue to prove useful. For a little gold, they sell me their scrap iron so I can build my steam minotaurs.”
Ceara: “I’ve landed a lab assistant position with Omadd, an intelligent but overly gentle asura. I should be able to wrap him around my little finger.”
Ceara: “Today I am sixteen cycles old, and to celebrate, I’ve been testing my first steam portal with steam minotaurs. The last batch actually made it in one piece.”
Taimi: “Can it be? My goodness.”
Ceara: “I noted the tiniest hint of intelligence in a steam brain today as it studied one of the portals. Fascinating.”
Taimi: “So that’s how it works.”
Ceara: “One in three steam creatures is being destroyed by my portals. I must find a solution.”
Ceara: “I have not yet had the courage to travel through one of my portals myself. I need to strengthen the form resonator first.”
Ceara: “I may have created a new sentient being. My steam brains are mimicking my building techniques, designing their own version of the steam portal.”
Taimi: “Hm.”
Ceara: “Omadd agrees that I’m ready for the mind-opening device. Tomorrow is the day.”
Scarlet Briar: “I saw it all. I saw the Eternal Alchemy.”
Scarlet Briar: (breathes) “I killed Omadd, my mentor. I am no one’s lab rat.”
Taimi: “Oh, Scarlet. What happened to you?”
Scarlet Briar: “The ley line hub is real. I found it, and I’m making preparations to study it. I’ve purchased a room in Prosperity with some of Omadd’s gold.
Taimi: “Interesting!"
Scarlet Briar: “The steam brains have shown ingenuity. When threatened, they build steam minotaurs from whatever materials they can find.”
Scarlet Briar: “I’ve used a portal to send most of my steam creature prorotypes into Lornar’s Pass and Brisban Wildlands. I no longer need them.”
Taimi: “Scruffy, log entry.”

That’s all I saw in there, although I’m sure it’s possible I missed something.

The main part that gets me is she talks about not wanting to be a lab rat maybe this is one big experiment and Taimi is the P.I. So the real evil is Taimi in a way!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Per devs, there is only “Firstborn” (which we have learned were born in 1302 AE), the “Secondborn” (which we have learned were born in 1308 and/or 1309 AE), and then “everyone else”.

Can someone please direct me to a source where this trichotomy comes from? I was under the impression that there where only two groups: “Firstborn” (the twelve) and “Secondborn” (= “everyone not Firstborn”), as you can also find implied in the Dream and Nightmare blog entry:

Caithe shrugged and interrupted, “Why should she care? She has thousands of children now, Cadeyrn. You are either firstborn…or you are simply sylvari."

In particular, it seemed to me that the tragedy of Cadeyrn was that he, as the “First of the Secondborn”, wanted to be special. The insult that Caithe offered was that he isn’t; he isn’t even Secondborn above “everyone else”.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

~MRA

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Secondborn were outright said by Ree Soesbee to be born 6-7 years after the Firstborn, thus placing them to be born in 1308-1309 AE.

Are you getting this from in-game content?

I think this come from the wiki:

“The secondborn are the second generation of sylvari that emerged from the Pale Tree. They came to being six or seven years after the firstborn.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Secondborn

The source for the wiki is instead this post from Regina Buenaobra on Gw2Guru dated 12 August 2011:

“Cadeyrn’s fall from grace happens over the course of a few years, not all at once; the events are separated in time. There is a total passage of about five years from the beginning to the end of the story. It feels a bit ‘rushed’ because it’s all told in succession, as the blog posts have to be, to try to keep them small. The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters.”

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/17676-arenanet-dream-and-nightmare/page__st__210#entry842850

As Tiborb said, it came from Ree Soesbee, one was via Regina on Guru2 but another was an interview with a website, a link to which I provided in either this thread or the Scarlet Timeline thread (or both).

@MRA, the designation came from Ree, twice at least both times when she denoted the Secondborn came to being six or seven years after the Firstborn – long established lore by a narrative continuity designer.

It was in an interview with TalkTyria.net.

Ree Soesbee

…The Nightmare Court began during the time of the Secondborn sylvari (the second generation of sylvari born from the tree, about six or seven years after the Firstborn)….

Source

Also Regina posted a quote from Ree on guildwars2guru that said:

The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters.

Source
This was Ree’s response to questions / comments that arose from an Anet blog that is no longer accessible. It used to be here -> http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare

The original contents of the blog have been preserved on the wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare

The twelve firstborn, called by their mother’s summons, stood breathlessly to greet their new brother. They had lived for so many years alone, believing that they were all the sylvari that would ever be

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Secondborn were outright said by Ree Soesbee to be born 6-7 years after the Firstborn, thus placing them to be born in 1308-1309 AE.

Are you getting this from in-game content?

I think what Mr. Stein is trying to say here is things change. The interview and blog being quoted are from more than a year before the game was released. They changed the whole look of the sylvari during that time. A month after that interview they could have decided, you know, let’s make it so a whole crop of sylvari are about to be born. But the asura come in and experiment and kill all but the 12. We will call them The Survivors instead of First Born. They could have done that if they wanted, if they did, you still going to hold them to what they said a year before when still in the creation process?

Jeff Grubb gave an interview on norn and was asked how they pick a mate. He said they are about their story, their legend, and look for a mate whose legend matches their own. I have not seen anything in game to confirm this. Now, guess what, upcoming living story Braham is getting married! But wait, his story/legend kind of sucks. He broke his leg and couldn’t do it on his own. He complains about his mom. Who would marry him? So writers think, well we didn’t put that comparing stories bit in game, so how about this: Norn throw a big moot, like they usually do. They drink until they pass out, like they usually do. The tradition is the last two standing get married. Braham has a chance! Now what is lore, what Jeff was thinking about a year before the game came out or this that got put in the game?

What Ree said way back then was probably the guide line they were using, but if it didn’t end up in game they can change it as much as they want. Re-writes, re-edits, up the kazoo I am sure. That’s the creative process. And it is not like the lore is written in a linear fashion. They leave gaps. Stories of history are added when needed. When the first game came out and if you managed to corner a dev and ask about charr females, the answer may have been: Umm, they are there, they just all look alike.

In a small way this is kind of why companies don’t like giving out too much info during the design phase. And I don’t mean just lore, but skills, professions, whatever..

“Two years before the game came out you said there would be Wardens and Marksmen, where are they!”
“We took them out, didn’t work, we didn’t like them.”
“You can’t do that, you ruined the game!”

Personally, my take on Bobby’s contribution is this: either this is honestly something that fell through the cracks, and nobody recalled that they had tossed us a figure on the Secondborn a long while back, OR we just got roundabout confirmation that nothing out-of-game is written in stone. Until Mr. Stein gets back to us, I’m left to use my own judgement on the matter, so… accounting for the existence of their internal wiki, I find the later more likely to be the case, so the rest of this will be written from that position.

Honestly, I am a little disappointed, but I’m not at all surprised. We’ve seen signs of this for a while now- between the multiple alterations to the game after we were shown the Movement of the World and Angel’s frank statement that the krait blog post reflected an iteration of that race that didn’t last to launch, I’d even come to terms with it. It’s not that big of a deal in the long run- it means we’ll have to shift our thinking to weight certain sources with more credence than others, and it does bite that we’re only being clued into this almost two years after the game launched, but both are surmountable problems, and in the long run I think it’s better for the lore community to be able to be in sync with the dev’s approach to their canon. All in all, better late than never.

Kenrid.7859:

I think what Mr. Stein is trying to say here is things change. The interview and blog being quoted are from more than a year before the game was released. They changed the whole look of the sylvari during that time. A month after that interview they could have decided, you know, let’s make it so a whole crop of sylvari are about to be born. But the asura come in and experiment and kill all but the 12. We will call them The Survivors instead of First Born. They could have done that if they wanted, if they did, you still going to hold them to what they said a year before when still in the creation process?

You realize that those interviews and questions came out during ‘sylvari week’ – when the redesign was revealed, and they told us about the Firstborn and the Secondborn and so much more, right?

That was the big reveal of sylvari lore spread throughout multiple sites, revealing the big change and new direction of the sylvari from their earlier ‘pseudo-elf’ look.

And it is generally very poor form to change released story, because if they admit that they altered what was stated multiple time during the biggest reveal of sylvari lore via asking if it was in-game or not, that’s no different than saying “anything not in the game is subject to change.” And that’s a lot of the background lore we’ve been given over the years. Hundreds of interviews, hundreds of forum posts, dozens of livestreams, hundreds of documents released to give a sense of the lore of the game for potential customers. To say that all of that can change at the drop of the hate removes a hell of a lot of credibility from the writers at ArenaNet.

And if that’s the case, we might as well dump all the lore we get out of game, and as I said, that’s a kitten lot. Given how the lore is presented in GW2, in fact, most of the more enticing tidbits come from out of the game. Reasons for the gods’ leaving, reason why sylvari look humanoid, how and when the Flame Legion came upon the titans, the entire history of Shiro Tagachi that was never touched upon in-game. Because ArenaNet lacks a means of providing paragraphs of text without humongous dialogue trees – even in GW1 – most lengthy lore comes from out of game. To say that all of that is subject to change?

Then what’s the point of having all those forum clarifications by Angel and Scott? Why bother even accepting interviews that focus on the story? Why even release those “<race> week”s? There is no point, because hell, any of it can be discarded at the drop of a hat!

Kenrid.7859:

Jeff Grubb gave an interview on norn and was asked how they pick a mate. He said they are about their story, their legend, and look for a mate whose legend matches their own. I have not seen anything in game to confirm this.

Actually, this is shown in Eye of the North, the background around Knut Whitebear and his wife (though we never met her, there are a few NPCs who talk about how legendary she and Knut are, and how while Knut lives in Hoelbrak she’s out there still building her legend), this is also brought up with Eir and Bjorn (whom lived a similar life – the husband settled down while the wife continued to build her growing legend).

It’s also shown that it isn’t universally the case, however, such as the event chain in northern Dredgehaunt Cliffs.

Kenrid.7859:

In a small way this is kind of why companies don’t like giving out too much info during the design phase. And I don’t mean just lore, but skills, professions, whatever..

“Two years before the game came out you said there would be Wardens and Marksmen, where are they!”
“We took them out, didn’t work, we didn’t like them.”
“You can’t do that, you ruined the game!”

It’s one thing to change the mechanics and story before release, it’s another thing to change such after promising them. Because then you’re breaking promises. And in the case of lore pieces like this, when you present the same fact multiple times during a period which is emphasizing the aspect of lore you’re providing pieces of, and then go about changing it with no story reason, that’s just sloppy storytelling. They should know what they should reveal and not, and work around that which they revealed – whether it’s keeping it in place but making new stuff work out (like your “The Survivors” idea, though even that wouldn’t work due to the sylvari week reveals) or by explaining why it’s false via in-universe explanations (like why the History of Tyria from the Prophecies manual is mostly proven false now).

I don’t plan on getting too involved in the argument, but I also do wanna say that even ingame-things are off sometimes, poorly explained and need clarification or fall through cracks. So not even that is 100% reliable which makes interviews and such really important!

I recall an old post which I think was in the /Audio/ section of the forum where Bobby (I think?) said the npc line “I pray to the spirits of the wild but they rarely answer” needs to be changed because norn do not ‘pray’ to the spirits.
Obviously that was months ago and is low-priority and therefore still everywhere in the game.

Another thing not stated but made me iffy was about the krait in Caledon. Both the skillpoint and the event to save prisoners refer to the ’prophet’s’ armies and ‘the krait prophet’ in singular. This left me with the impression that at some point during early development there was only a single krait prophet, but then Anet changed it to them revering multiple ones (which is also what the blog post gave us) but overlooked these two mentions.

The third thing that left me confused was the courtier in briarthorn den who claims nightmare is all he had ever known which somewhat clashes with the interview which said no sylvari are born from nightmare. The latter seemed to make more sense and was a newer statement so to me it had priority over ingame text.

Anyways, personally I hope that this was just miscommunication on the devs’ parts and not actually intended lore-breaking and retconning. I’m fully agreeing with what Konig said since he pretty much nailed the issue IMO.

Even if it is a retcon, it would be nice of them to expand on their reasonings behind the change, especially after taking a red pen and changing such a large portion of the Sylvari history.

“We did it to better fit the story” is a passable* explanation (read: slightly cringeworthy), understandable too at times, but it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth if that’s the only explanation given.

Well they did move away from most of the things they said during development (see the manifesto), it only figures that interview-lore isnt sacred either.

I wouldnt even mind to rely only on lore that is presented in the game if there would be enough lore in the game. Im still hoping for some kind of codex in the hero panel.

Im kinda waiting for the first time when someone in the Living story gives the name Mordremoth to the new unkown dragon, hoping that my character will be able to ask “How did you come up with that name?”

Erukk.1408:

Even if it is a retcon, it would be nice of them to expand on their reasonings behind the change, especially after taking a red pen and changing such a large portion of the Sylvari history.

“We did it to better fit the story” is a passable* explanation (read: slightly cringeworthy), understandable too at times, but it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth if that’s the only explanation given.

Their real answer probably is “oh yeah, we thought no one kept tabs on dates and such. Hell even we don’t !”

Has anyone else noticed something strange behind her bookshelf thing? It looks like a tunnel.

Lohre.9031:

Has anyone else noticed something strange behind her bookshelf thing? It looks like a tunnel.

Someone posted (I can’t find the post anymore found it) about how the house hadn’t fully loaded up for them when they approached it and they saw a cave behind the bookshelf. Also mentioned speculation on Taimi finding the cave, disappearing, and then our going in search after her. Seems like a possibility as to what may come.

BobbyStein.2315:

lakdav.3694:

Well they did move away from most of the things they said during development (see the manifesto), it only figures that interview-lore isnt sacred either.

Unless we’ve built content around something, it’s usually considered malleable from a design and lore standpoint. Occasionally we decide to go in a different direction months or years after the first ideas are documented or even talked about externally. In some cases that means what one member of staff says in an interview can change when it comes time to building a release. It’s part of our iterative process.

In short, go by what’s in the game.

lakdav.3694:

I wouldnt even mind to rely only on lore that is presented in the game if there would be enough lore in the game. Im still hoping for some kind of codex in the hero panel.

My advice for you and others who care about the lore is to let us know what you think of the implementation in season 2. We’ve put a lot more resources into seeding each episode with loreful bits.

As always, thanks for playing and letting us know what you think.

Just going to say you guys outdone yourselves with the quality of the story and content so far. Keep at it, good work!

The whole community, in general, is loving season 2 so far.