Guild Wars 2

http://www.eurogamer.pt/videos/entrevista-game-designer-guild-wars-2

See this recent interview with Colin Johanson. The dragon question is brought up at 15:20 mark.

That is so freaking awesome.

This is the best news all year

I wanted to smack that interviewer for interrupting him when he started talking about Bubbles…

Just watched it and …eeeeeermmm…I think he means Primordus.

Levistis.8356:

Just watched it and …eeeeeermmm…I think he means Primordius. I’m sorry to ruin it ;

Why would you think that?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jungle_dragon

Colin slipped, Mordremoth confirmed.

Plunder.8195:

Levistis.8356:

Just watched it and …eeeeeermmm…I think he means Primordius. I’m sorry to ruin it ;

Why would you think that?

Isn’t Primordus in the Maguuma Jungle? Well, underneath it?

Levistis.8356:

(…)
Isn’t Primordus in the Maguuma Jungle? Well, underneath it?

Nobody knows, if Colin really meant Primordus it would even be a bigger spoiler! ;-)
I think he’s somewhere below the Shiverpeaks.

Oh, then, /fail for me

Changing the wiki article like that is jumping the gun. Colin may well have been talking about “Mordremoth”- I think he probably was- but he may have been intentionally misleading. Note that he listed every known dragon EXCEPT Primordus.

I believe Primordus is currently somewhere around the Depths of Tyria and not on the surface. There is a reason Destroyers come from underground instead of a specific geographical location, like with other Dragons, for example Jormag’s minions come from the far Shiverpeaks, Zhaitan’s from Orr, Kralkatorrik’s from that huge area called Dragonbrand. Destroyers pop anywhere, while the minions of DSD haven’t been seen yet.

Also, Colin noted every known dragon except for Primordus because, in my opinion at least, he will be the LAST Dragon we fight. He seems like either the most powerful or at least some kind of leader, he awakened first, and his MO is slightly different to the others, he is not corrupting, he is destroying, and has no followers. Not to mention that one of his “lieutenants” required the entire Dwarf race to be sacrificed in order to defeat… The lieutenants of the others pale in comparisson.

I believe Jungle Dragon = Mordremoth, also keep in mind that in the Maguuma jungle we have a second Grove somewhere that will likely play an important role with the Jungle dragon.

maddoctor.2738:

I believe Primordus is currently somewhere around the Depths of Tyria and not on the surface. There is a reason Destroyers come from underground instead of a specific geographical location, like with other Dragons, for example Jormag’s minions come from the far Shiverpeaks, Zhaitan’s from Orr, Kralkatorrik’s from that huge area called Dragonbrand. Destroyers pop anywhere, while the minions of DSD haven’t been seen yet.

Also, Colin noted every known dragon except for Primordus because, in my opinion at least, he will be the LAST Dragon we fight. He seems like either the most powerful or at least some kind of leader, he awakened first, and his MO is slightly different to the others, he is not corrupting, he is destroying, and has no followers. Not to mention that one of his “lieutenants” required the entire Dwarf race to be sacrificed in order to defeat… The lieutenants of the others pale in comparisson.

I believe Jungle Dragon = Mordremoth, also keep in mind that in the Maguuma jungle we have a second Grove somewhere that will likely play an important role with the Jungle dragon.

I can’t agree more.

Colin specifies that he is not talking about which dragon will come next, but rather what dragon he thinks the fans would most like to see next, and as Primordus is the first dragon whose minions Guild Wars fans fought, and we know very little about what he’s been up to, his absence from Colin’s explanation is conspicuous. And where do you get that he’s stronger or a leader? It’s been stated by the devs that the dragons are opposed to each other, another one of his lieutenants was taken down by a team of six (plus a golem, plus a wolf), the Great Destroyer you mention was only directly confronted by the GW player’s party (which had no more than one dwarf), and the dwarves as they existed in EotN, without any way of increasing their numbers, have managed to hold back Primordus’ army from the surface for nearly two hundred years (most of the destroyers on the surface seem to be a new development, and only in small, scattered areas).

The idea behind Primordus being the leader is because of the great destroyer being the lt fought, and the fact it was the first to rise. So in a sense it leads the others in their rising
Gonna watch this thing now, but as for Primo’s whereabouts, based on in-game npcs, the general notion is he’s in the Maguuma Wastes. It explains the arid climate there now, and from my trip around Rata Sum, it’s been said there are destroyers underneath the city, and that ‘Primordus plagues the wetlands in south west Tyria’

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Changing the wiki article like that is jumping the gun. Colin may well have been talking about “Mordremoth”- I think he probably was- but he may have been intentionally misleading. Note that he listed every known dragon EXCEPT Primordus.

Levistis.8356:

Isn’t Primordus in the Maguuma Jungle? Well, underneath it?

We have no indication where Primordus is – except that he’s underground.

Besides, he’s ALWAYS referred to as the Fire Dragon/Rock Dragon. Never ever jungle dragon.

Kralkatorrik’s the Crystal Dragon/Desert Dragon
Zhaitan’s the Death Dragon/Undead Dragon/Orrian Dragon
The Deep Sea Dragon is such, or Dragon of the Deep
Jormag’s the Dragon of Ice and Snow
Primordus is the Fire Dragon/Rock Dragon

No Elder Dragon has been dubbed the “Jungle Dragon” before.

There’s no reason to call Primordus the “Jungle Dragon” and then talk about the Maguuma Jungle’s history. Primordus has no relation to the Maguuma’s history.

maddoctor.2738:

Also, Colin noted every known dragon except for Primordus because, in my opinion at least, he will be the LAST Dragon we fight.

[…]

I believe Jungle Dragon = Mordremoth, also keep in mind that in the Maguuma jungle we have a second Grove somewhere that will likely play an important role with the Jungle dragon.

I agree with your post except two points:

I don’t think Primordus is last, nor do I think that’s why Colin didn’t mention him. Take note of how Colin was talking about dragons. From the view of GW1 players, which are most interesting to fight next. In other words, Colin thinks that Primordus would be the most boring dragon to face for GW1 fans (I disagree, given how Primordus has access to lost asuran magitech – if he consumes all that, which includes and is not limited to basically six modern Rata Sums… yesh).

The second point I disagree with is that the Grove will hold a major piece in facing Mordremoth. The sylvari got enough spotlight with Zhaitan – it’s someone else’s turn coughumanscough.

Mystic Starfish.2586:

Gonna watch this thing now, but as for Primo’s whereabouts, based on in-game npcs, the general notion is he’s in the Maguuma Wastes. It explains the arid climate there now, and from my trip around Rata Sum, it’s been said there are destroyers underneath the city, and that ‘Primordus plagues the wetlands in south west Tyria’

Thing is that the Maguuma Wastes thing isn’t a recent development (we only know it happened in the last 250 years, but not necessarily when – but nothing indicates it being recent, at least), and there’s more recent destroyer activities east of there – such as at Kessex Hills, Lornar’s Pass, or Timberline Falls. Though destroyer activities doesn’t account for Primordus’ location, given how new it is, it’s more likely than Primordus still being in the Maguuma Wastes.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The second point I disagree with is that the Grove will hold a major piece in facing Mordremoth. The sylvari got enough spotlight with Zhaitan – it’s someone else’s turn coughumanscough.

I agree with you – or at least, I hope this turns out to be the case. There’s already natural connections for the other 3 races – Krakky and the Charr, Jormag and the Norn, and Primordus and Asura. The history and location of those races make them obvious choices to have the ‘spotlight’ when those dragons are introduced.

There’s not really much room left for humans to get the spotlight. The DSD doesn’t seem like it would fit, so that really just leaves Mordremoth. Before actually playing it, I would have thought Zhaitan would have spotlighted humans more than Sylvari, given the connection of humans and their gods to Orr, but this didn’t turn out to be a major part of the plot.

So while I’m not sure if Anet actually WILL give humans the spotlight on one of the dragons, if they do, Mordremoth would seem to be the best choice left available. And I really hope humans get that chance, since as a human main I was a little disappointed how they and the Six Gods didn’t have a major spot in the storyline.

Im sure humans will play a part in the jungle dragon and ill give u a hint. the white mantle.

Maybe Primordius will pop out of the giant hole in Divinity’s Reach? Would that count as a connection?

The connection between the Sylvari and the Jungle Dragon(thankfully we have a dub for it now) is in the theory that the Sylvari were actually meant to be the JD’s minions, though the seed that made the grove was stolen and planted by the centaur and human, so yeah, that failed. So if it comes down to it, dragon-sylvari might come up and become the antagonist during the JD’s story. This theory is supported by the facts that it is unknown what happened to the other seeds, that the sylvari’s being happens to match the element of the dragon, and that they were born near the time the first Elder Dragon stirred.

As for humans, I think one of their roles will be to quest out to find their gods again and bring them back to help. Or at least find them.

Ah! I had a thought. As Sylvari are very well based on Arthurian Legend, it makes complete sense for them to be directly connected or will become the main focus for the Jungle Dragon Mordremoth, which is most likely based off Mordred. Not sure if this is a new idea or not, but just got me excited I found the connection.

Dondagora.9645:

The connection between the Sylvari and the Jungle Dragon(thankfully we have a dub for it now) is in the theory that the Sylvari were actually meant to be the JD’s minions, though the seed that made the grove was stolen and planted by the centaur and human, so yeah, that failed. So if it comes down to it, dragon-sylvari might come up and become the antagonist during the JD’s story. This theory is supported by the facts that it is unknown what happened to the other seeds, that the sylvari’s being happens to match the element of the dragon, and that they were born near the time the first Elder Dragon stirred.

No. In an early Sylvari storyline, you meet Malyck, who’s a sylvari not born from the Pale Tree (well, the same pale tree anyways). Now, if the seeds were to spawn dragon minions, wouldn’t Malyck then be a dragon minion? He’s impulsive, but also righteous and most certainly has his own free will. Not the traits you’d find in a dragon minion.

Also, the times don’t match. Eye of the North happens in 1078 AE, which is when Primordus stirs (but does not wake in another 50 years). By then, the pale tree has already grown quite a bit, which would have taken at the very least several years. The Sylvari first emerge in 1302, which is 32 years after DSD awakens, and 18 years before Kralkatorrik does.

A very interesting slip up. Ive suspected that if there was a ‘plant’ dragon it might be linked to the drying up of the Maguuma. It would explain alot. Lots of plants in nature consume all reasources from the area which basicly kills of all other plants around it. In fact Reyna in GW1 actually has dialog where she speculates its actually the iron wood trees that dried up the desert. Perhaps this was a side effect of it awakening.

I wouldnt be suprised if the Sylvari are linked to the Jungle Dragon but I doubt they are minions. If anything it would seem more likely they were a response to it. If the Jungle Dragon is responsable for the drying up of the Maguuma then the Sylvari could have been created as a counter. I think its much more likely the Sylvari have some relation to Druids than the ED, particularly since they have an Elite Skill that summons a Druid Spirit.

Caledore.6271:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The second point I disagree with is that the Grove will hold a major piece in facing Mordremoth. The sylvari got enough spotlight with Zhaitan – it’s someone else’s turn coughumanscough.

I agree with you – or at least, I hope this turns out to be the case. There’s already natural connections for the other 3 races – Krakky and the Charr, Jormag and the Norn, and Primordus and Asura. The history and location of those races make them obvious choices to have the ‘spotlight’ when those dragons are introduced.

There’s not really much room left for humans to get the spotlight. The DSD doesn’t seem like it would fit, so that really just leaves Mordremoth. Before actually playing it, I would have thought Zhaitan would have spotlighted humans more than Sylvari, given the connection of humans and their gods to Orr, but this didn’t turn out to be a major part of the plot.

So while I’m not sure if Anet actually WILL give humans the spotlight on one of the dragons, if they do, Mordremoth would seem to be the best choice left available. And I really hope humans get that chance, since as a human main I was a little disappointed how they and the Six Gods didn’t have a major spot in the storyline.

This is kinda my thought as well.

Unfortunately, I think ArenaNet has essentially overcompensated in trying to avoid giving humans too much of the spotlight, and has essentially squandered their best chance to do so. Now, there isn’t really a good reason to think that humans will have the spotlight with any of the other dragons – there are clear connections between the sylvari and Mordremoth, the asura and Primordus, and the norn and Jormag, but the dragon which gave the best opportunity for humans to shine was the one that was squatting in the sacred city of the gods. Instead, we saw humans being eclipsed by charr, asura and sylvari inside what was once their capital in Tyria.

The next best chance might actually prove to be Kralkatorrik – the Crystal Desert is probably the region most directly connected to the gods after Orr, and the three most likely gateways into the Crystal Desert (Ebonhawke, Orr, Elona) are all human or former human holdings. This would leave the charr without ‘their’ dragon, but considering how much focus the charr have already had, and that the charr will likely receive more focus when the map is extended north and east, I don’t think that’s a major issue.

There’s also the element that if anything connected to Glint remains in the area – such as Forgotten, her offspring, or other remaining servants – they might be more inclined to recognise and trust humans than other races.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t mind if humans don’t get an Elder Dragon all to themselves, since the other races kind of need them to build on their lore. The humans don’t need one because they had all of gw1, and they’ll get the whole Silence of the 6 Gods storyline all to themselves.

That might include return trips to the Underworld, Fissure of Woe, the Realm of Torment, and other realms if the other gods have their own as well. Plus, whatever drove the gods and humans to Tyria in the first place, but I’m guessing they might save that for after the Elder Dragons.

You’re presuming that there will be a silence of the six gods storyline, or any elaboration on humanity’s origins. Personally, I don’t see much happening beyond more tidbits the size of what GW2 has already given us. Which is pretty much five sentences worth.

TBH, humans don’t need a connection to Mordremoth in order to be the focusing protagonists against it – just as the sylvari didn’t have much tie to Zhaitan other than “it’s my destin- I mean Wyld Hunt!”

But if you need a connection: Maguuma Bloodstone, Druids, and humans having historical value in the Maguuma (Fort Koga and the “trade route” that went to the western coast).

Plus, as Arcalas noted, there may be a White Mantle connection. Not a direct White Mantle/Mordremoth connection, since there’s no evidence of that, but if Mordremoth is in fact in the Maguuma Jungle, the Pact may also encounter the Mantle there, since there’s evidence they have a significant presence in the region.

The White Mantle and Mursaat may be the best chance for the humans to have a prominent focus in future content, since there’s so much history between them and Kryta.

In the jungle the mighty jungle the dragon sleeps tonight. >_>

what do you mean “sylvari get enough focus”?

TRAHEARNE gets enough focus, not the rest of the sylvari

I hope The jungle dragon is next, Sylvari get more focus and traherne dies causing a power vacuum within the pact and a human takes over, or you know, Destinys Edge takes charge…

The six gods are too big of an plot element of Tyria as a whole to not get a storyline. Maybe not now, but sometime in the distant future. Which humans would get a key role in.

As for the fate of Trahearne…

I would prefer he get abducted by the Nightmare Court. Then maybe they can break him mentally, to make him susceptible to the nightmares of the Dream. Anything to add to is bland personality…

As much as I wish the jungle dragon was Modremoth, I d think he was referring to Primordius Even in the book, Destiny’s Edge faced down his then-current champion not too far outside Rata Sum in the thick of the jungle. The mini-volcano the champ came out of was spewing and spawning destroyers constantly. Also in GW1, (aside from the subterranean shiverpeak areas we faced his minions and the Great Destroyer in, but that kind of falls in a general underground and also linked up to many places in the jungle) we faced Primordius’ minions mainly in the jungle areas, with that gaping maw in the ground (that we had to summon the golems to close, resulting in Vekk’s father’s death) that seemed to be a major entrance to the surface that the destroyers used. I know Primordius is associated with rock and fire, but I think it was just a slip of the tongue on Colin’s part, because he is thinking in dev terms, and if the encounter will be based largely in the jungle area, he would be thinking of it as the jungle dragon. Not to mention he also didn’t mention Primordius anywhere else (although the interviewer cut him off just as he started rambling about Bubbles too, so I could be wrong).

Take note that a major destroyer outlet in GW2 is Mount Maelstrom, which is on the far side of the Sea of Sorrows from Maguuma. With how the depths of Tyria is connected by both natural caverns, caverns made by Primordus, and the old Asura gates, I don’t think the place where the destroyers are coming to the surface tells much about where the dragon is, save for that it’s underground.

Even if Primordus was underneath the Maguuma Jungle, I just cannot see anyone using the term “jungle dragon” for him.

Besides, why would Colin say “jungle dragon” instead of Primordus’ name?

Indeed, that wouldn’t make much sense. I don’t see any point in intentionally misdirecting customers like that, so it’s in all likeliness a slip-up, either intentional or accidental.

True, common sense, in most cases, would dictate him meaning Mordremoth. When you think of Primordus you usually also think of “lava/volcano/fire”. It’s also an easy name to pronounce so he was most likely not be talking about Primordus in that instance.

Also, I believe they didn’t focus Zhaitan on sylvari but simply Trahaerne, simply making him Sylvari because it’s the least dominating race so peopl can’t say “The Char are best ’cause they rule the pact” or “Human’s are getting all the main roles” or “Norn are strongest so they lead the pact” or even “The Asura are the smartest and bestest leaders, so they rule the pact”. Because Sylvari aren’t portrayed as arrogant, ambitious, or bias ANet found it best to put one in charge to make it seem fair.

Also, here’s how I think it might be split up:
-Humans: 6 Gods Storyline
-Sylvari: Mordremoth
-Char: Crystal
-Norn: Jormag
-Asura: Primordus//Dwarf Storyline

The final boss will either be DSD, the last dragon to wake(or maybe that’s Mordremoth?) which is powerful enough to keep Tyria completely isolated, or Primordus if the Asura don’t get him, since he was the first to awake and possibly the biggest(assuming). Since their elements are more universal it makes them better candidates for the ending-boss.

I agree with Dondagora and Tuomir, but I don’t think he intentionally misdirected anyone. And yes we have a mojor destroyer mouth in Mt Malestrom, but that doesn’t mean that will be where we face primordius. There’s waaaaayyy too much jungle to say it would all be devoted to Mordremoth (and yes I do agreee he would be the “nature” or “jungle” dragon, but I don’t think Colin was referring to it in the way we see it. I think he was just thinking of the area(s) they set the boss encounter to be in. Why he didn’t say the name instead? ….have you actually watched any of his interviews? LOL. If you can manage to dig it up (I couldn’t…looked for an hour) there was an interview- pre GW2 launch he did with some EU press where he clearly called some players azzhats. While that’s totally correct and accurate as we all know, it was a slip and I doubt he meant to say it on camera. He’s known for lots of slips. Don’t get me wrong, I love Colin, I think he does good interview, but he also has lots of slips and misquotes that we, the players, blow way out of proportion.

Dondagora.9645:

Also, I believe they didn’t focus Zhaitan on sylvari but simply Trahaerne

If it weren’t for the Pale Reavers, the Pale Tree, A Light in the Darkness, and the cleansing ritual coming from the Pale Tree’s bark (Caladbolg), I’d probably agree.

But there’s a lot more sylvari elements than human elements in the fight.

Dondagora.9645:

The final boss will either be DSD, the last dragon to wake(or maybe that’s Mordremoth?) which is powerful enough to keep Tyria completely isolated, or Primordus if the Asura don’t get him, since he was the first to awake and possibly the biggest(assuming).

Kralkatorrik was the last known dragon to wake – with Mordremoth possibly either being waking around the time Primordus did, or last if even will ever wake. And Primordus is likely the smallest, all things considered, while Kralk seems to thus far be the biggest.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dondagora.9645:

Also, I believe they didn’t focus Zhaitan on sylvari but simply Trahaerne

If it weren’t for the Pale Reavers, the Pale Tree, A Light in the Darkness, and the cleansing ritual coming from the Pale Tree’s bark (Caladbolg), I’d probably agree.

But there’s a lot more sylvari elements than human elements in the fight.

Dondagora.9645:

The final boss will either be DSD, the last dragon to wake(or maybe that’s Mordremoth?) which is powerful enough to keep Tyria completely isolated, or Primordus if the Asura don’t get him, since he was the first to awake and possibly the biggest(assuming).

Kralkatorrik was the last known dragon to wake – with Mordremoth possibly either being waking around the time Primordus did, or last if even will ever wake. And Primordus is likely the smallest, all things considered, while Kralk seems to thus far be the biggest.

if the mystic telescope in arah is to be believed, mordremoth is still asleep.

it will wake up when the constellation forms, but looking through the telescope, it’s still forming

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I agree with Dondagora and Tuomir, but I don’t think he intentionally misdirected anyone. And yes we have a mojor destroyer mouth in Mt Malestrom, but that doesn’t mean that will be where we face primordius.

My point was that the destroyer fissure near Rata Sum doesn’t mean that Primordus would be located there too, not that he’d be around Mt. Maelstrom.

well i have a different view on lutinz’s theory, it could be linked to the maguama jungle drying up but probaly not ciphoning like he sugests, it probaly regrows the jungle as part of its plant based corruption just like all EDs have a corruption based on their element, but that area of maguama might be naturally dry so after all those years since the jungle dragon went back into hibernation and consequentaly the last time it corrupted/regrew the area has caused it to revert back to its natural state,

And also Elder Dragons consume magic so it wouldn’t need to ciphon from other plants

My hopes/view on the Maguuma Wastes is one of two:

Primordus vs. Mordremoth (or just their forces) in that area.

Or the Bloodstone is being messed with, and the magical healing waters of the Maguuma Jungle are becoming less magical because of that.

Calcifire.1864:

if the mystic telescope in arah is to be believed, mordremoth is still asleep.

it will wake up when the constellation forms, but looking through the telescope, it’s still forming

Presuming there’s only six Elder Dragons, and that telescope isn’t foretelling a seventh one that was unknown to the jotun.

Calcifire.1864:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dondagora.9645:

Also, I believe they didn’t focus Zhaitan on sylvari but simply Trahaerne

If it weren’t for the Pale Reavers, the Pale Tree, A Light in the Darkness, and the cleansing ritual coming from the Pale Tree’s bark (Caladbolg), I’d probably agree.

But there’s a lot more sylvari elements than human elements in the fight.

Dondagora.9645:

The final boss will either be DSD, the last dragon to wake(or maybe that’s Mordremoth?) which is powerful enough to keep Tyria completely isolated, or Primordus if the Asura don’t get him, since he was the first to awake and possibly the biggest(assuming).

Kralkatorrik was the last known dragon to wake – with Mordremoth possibly either being waking around the time Primordus did, or last if even will ever wake. And Primordus is likely the smallest, all things considered, while Kralk seems to thus far be the biggest.

if the mystic telescope in arah is to be believed, mordremoth is still asleep.

it will wake up when the constellation forms, but looking through the telescope, it’s still forming

The flaw I see in this is, anything we’re looking at through a telescope is obviously far away. As in, light years away. Meaning if we’re seeing a constellation form through a telescope, it’s already formed, because that light took years to reach the planet.

Again, tyrian physics don’t follow real world physics. Constellations in Tyria come to life and visit Tyria, so….

Those aren’t literal constellations though. The Celestials are being who live among the stars. They’re not constellations as we know them, just souls of deceased humans (and possibly other races) that have taken on star-and-animal aspects.

More significantly, we don’t really know how the process works. Stars in the GW universe may not (all) be other suns positioned light years away – the constellations observed by the jotun telescopes, for instance, be the result of satellites created by an even older civilisation as a warning system. Or it’s possible that they are, but it’s the starlight arriving on Tyria in a particular configuration that heralds the awakening of the dragon, not the physical location of the balls of fusing hydrogen plasma themselves.

CHIPS.6018:

In the jungle the mighty jungle the dragon sleeps tonight. >_>

For some reason I now have an image in my head of a bunch of Char singing the chorus line of that song.

Remember the Sylvari personal story? Right after you make a character you go into the dream. That dragon we fight look kinda like a jungle dragon, and Primordus. Maybe we already got a preview of the jungle dragon minions in that fight.

The Pale Tree states that was a vision of Zhaitan. And TBH, it didn’t look anything like Primordus – it looked like a plant version of Tequatl the Sunless and Zhaitan’s other dragon champions (literally just a recoloring – whereas while Shatterer and Claw of Jormag uses the same animations, they have different head shapes and the like).