Guild Wars 2

there’s the trailer for the next LS update.

and some talky about it:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/22/flameseeker-chronicles-introducing-guild-wars-2s-dragons-reac/#continued

that’s an interview with Anet’s Steven Waller

I see a lot of ppl freaking out on reddit.

What does this signify lore wise? Why is Rytlock suddenly involved?

edit: nvm your article explains it perfectly

I’m wondering how this is gonna work.

cause Rytlock ain’t the True King of Ascalon.

seems like he’s giving Sohothin back to Adelbern?

maybe somehow Rytlock becomes the Khan-Ur?

and thus, the King of Ascalon (current)?

that’d be a little rushed, I’d think though. I wouldn’t mind him being Khan-Ur, it’s a natural progression storywise, but I’d like to see it made into a bigger, player-involved event. not just “bam, 2 weeks later he’s Khan-Ur”

Geez!!! That really did give me goosebumps in a positive way…

I’m officially excited. /Ragnarök commences in 5 minutes/

Foefire was a one-time event in History after all, so the legend may well be false.

A wish : please, we need the presence of Smodur the Unflinching and his warband, it must be inevitable. I’m still disappointed with the way Captain’s Council was used during the defense of Lion’s Arch.

Aethelbert.1497:

JMadFour.9730:

I’m wondering how this is gonna work.

cause Rytlock ain’t the True King of Ascalon.

seems like he’s giving Sohothin back to Adelbern?

Crazy idea, but what if that artifact Priory members were moving during last episode shows Rytlock’s face?
I have no idea how, why and et cetera. But I have that feel.

The artifact the Priory was moving shows the true ruler of Kryta, not Ascalon. It’s important to Jennah’s line.

The legend may have been a paraphrasing or mistake, simply assuming that only Adelbern’s line, and thus the True King of Ascalon, would be wielding one of the swords. Since the swords are rumored to be related to ending the curse, it could be that they do precisely that.

I too hope that Smodur shows up, though I’d have no qualms with Rytlock taking the title of Khasn-Ur. I just want Smodur there to be really ticked off about it.

I dunno, it can make sense if you follow the prophecy. Originally Ascalon belonged to the charr, it wasn’t human territory, it was charr territory. So if you follow that interpretation, no human could possibly be the true heir, it would need to be a charr.

But yeah, that might require Rytlock to become the Khan Ur and be perceived as the new racial leader. I’m not a fan of that happening out of nowhere so quickly.

Why was Rox in the background? She abandoned the charr for the biconics, turning her back on Rytlock’s warband and choosing Braham over her mission. Of all the charr in Tyria, why would Rytlock work with her?

DraconicDak.9340:

Aethelbert.1497:

JMadFour.9730:

I’m wondering how this is gonna work.

cause Rytlock ain’t the True King of Ascalon.

seems like he’s giving Sohothin back to Adelbern?

Crazy idea, but what if that artifact Priory members were moving during last episode shows Rytlock’s face?
I have no idea how, why and et cetera. But I have that feel.

The artifact the Priory was moving shows the true ruler of Kryta, not Ascalon. It’s important to Jennah’s line.

The legend may have been a paraphrasing or mistake, simply assuming that only Adelbern’s line, and thus the True King of Ascalon, would be wielding Sohothin. Since the swords are rumored to be related to ending the curse, it could be that they do precisely that.

I too hope that Smodur shows up, though I’d have no qualms with Rytlock taking the title of Khasn-Ur. I just want Smodur there to be really ticked off about it.

My bad, I realised that after I wrote the message.

Shiren.9532:

Why was Rox in the background? She abandoned the charr for the biconics, turning her back on Rytlock’s warband and choosing Braham over her mission. Of all the charr in Tyria, why would Rytlock work with her?

She’s been supposed to be reporting back for a couple months now, but has been afraid of Rytlock’s reaction to her giving up the Scarlet kill, and thus has been hiding from him. I’d guess she’s going to at least face him this chapter.

Shiren.9532:

I dunno, it can make sense if you follow the prophecy. Originally Ascalon belonged to the charr, it wasn’t human territory, it was charr territory. So if you follow that interpretation, no human could possibly be the true heir, it would need to be a charr.

Ugh… totally wrong. Ascalon wasn’t charr territory to begin with. They conquered it from a primitive species of simian-like humanoids who lived in a greatly divided, tribal communities.

If you want the “true” heir to Ascalon, go fetch a grawl king.

That is a plot twist I expected. Could it be that Rytlock is one of the heirs of the Khan Ur?

I think people might be jumping to conclusions with Rytlock and the Ascalonian ghosts. It doesn’t show that whatever he does works or that it is going to ‘remove’ the ghosts.
He might be trying to put the ghosts to rest, but it might/probably won’t work.
(haven’t fully read the article yet, so maybe that says something about it)

Shiren.9532:

Why was Rox in the background? She abandoned the charr for the biconics, turning her back on Rytlock’s warband and choosing Braham over her mission. Of all the charr in Tyria, why would Rytlock work with her?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lion%27s_Arch:_Honored_Guests
Any word from Rytlock?
“Nothing conclusive. He’s been pretty terse and distant… Well, more terse and distant than ‘usual. I’m hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.”

I expect a cold welcome, but no rejection.

Fluffball : Yes, it is.

Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324:

Well, more terse and distant thkittenual.

The kitten filter is just completely ridiculous.

I am absolutely freaking out over this. How can they do this?

More than a year ago, in a lore discussion thread about Sohothin, i mentioned that Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, if he is a descendant. And now it looks as if i may be right. Frankly, i am shocked.

ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Sohothin does not belong into the hands of a Charr. I was waiting for a chance to take it away, by force if need be. But no, you turn that Charr into the one to lift the curse of Ascalon. Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, but he is NOT the rightful heir to the kingdom of Ascalon. If anyone, that is Samuelsson. The human kingdom is gone, alright. But what you do here is justifying genocide and ecocide.

I was thinking that making the Charr into a playable race was for the sake of game balance, but now i see that it is obviously favouritism. You are going too far, ArenaNet. Enough is enough. You are favouring a race that caused a genocide of innocents and destroyed Ascalon completely. Many old GW1 players have not forgotten, and really do not like the Charr. I see now how much you care about those players, even less than i thought.

The ghosts deserve to be put to rest. The Charr do not deserve to be freed from a curse they caused by their actions. But that is just my opinion.

Treat your GW1 lore with more respect. Do not let a Charr casually lift the curse during a living story update like this. You could have made a great story out of it, one that stands on its own. You just casually throw it into an update whose focus is something completely different from the whole Ascalon story.

Recently you said that you do respect the lore of GW1, but now i see that you really don’t. And that you really do not care one bit about GW1 players. And yes, if what the trailer shows is really going to happen then i am done with this game.

Geez, just because you have a personal problem with the charr doesn’t mean they’re breaking any lore. It wouldn’t be lore breaking if after the dragons are dead the charr slaughter all the adorable little quaggan and asura, even if people didn’t like that happening.

Also we have no idea what’s going on yet!

I don’t see how this is any way disrespectful towards the lore of GW1 especially if they do this right. You can leave if you want I have no problem with that if you’re just going to throw a tantrum like a five year old.

skullmount.1758:

I think people might be jumping to conclusions with Rytlock and the Ascalonian ghosts. It doesn’t show that whatever he does works or that it is going to ‘remove’ the ghosts.
He might be trying to put the ghosts to rest, but it might/probably won’t work.
(haven’t fully read the article yet, so maybe that says something about it)

Yeah, if he actually does remove the curse in the next episode, ArenaNet basically revealed the climax in the trailer. My money’s on Rytlock failing. They are reviving the “life the curse” plot but not concluding it (that will be the surprise – Rytlock fails). That allows them to search for the proper way to lift the curse (which according to research in Dry Top, AC and an event in Sparkfly Fen, the true solution might be asuran research – although I think most of us would find prophecy, sorcery, bloodlines and leadership to be a far more compelling plot).

It would be interesting to see Ascalon without ghosts. We’ve heard in the past ArenaNet mention the possibility of removing a dungeon. Imagine gold farming without AC.

I am actually fine with that.
I mean, the legend says: “The true heir of the throne of Ascalon”, or something like that.
Now Rythlock is not neccessary a King, but a leader in his society.
There is also no mentioning which race the heir supposed to be.
All he has to prove that he is the one that deserves (aka true heir) the throne.

I mean, who decides that? The swords? The curse itself?
Logically the intention of the caster could be imbedded in the curse, but i do not really believe Adelbernd was that calm and predictable as he cast that.

If he believed in humans would be the winner in this war, then he did not have to specify “the true human heir”.
He would just say “the true heir” and be done with it. This leaves a lot of interpretation and two burning magic swords as keys to do the deed

Frosch.7809:

I am absolutely freaking out over this. How can they do this?

More than a year ago, in a lore discussion thread about Sohothin, i mentioned that Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, if he is a descendant. And now it looks as if i may be right. Frankly, i am shocked.

ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Sohothin does not belong into the hands of a Charr. I was waiting for a chance to take it away, by force if need be. But no, you turn that Charr into the one to lift the curse of Ascalon. Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, but he is NOT the rightful heir to the kingdom of Ascalon. If anyone, that is Samuelsson. The human kingdom is gone, alright. But what you do here is justifying genocide and ecocide.

I was thinking that making the Charr into a playable race was for the sake of game balance, but now i see that it is obviously favouritism. You are going too far, ArenaNet. Enough is enough. You are favouring a race that caused a genocide of innocents and destroyed Ascalon completely. Many old GW1 players have not forgotten, and really do not like the Charr. I see now how much you care about those players, even less than i thought.

The ghosts deserve to be put to rest. The Charr do not deserve to be freed from a curse they caused by their actions. But that is just my opinion.

Treat your GW1 lore with more respect. Do not let a Charr casually lift the curse during a living story update like this. You could have made a great story out of it, one that stands on its own. You just casually throw it into an update whose focus is something completely different from the whole Ascalon story.

Recently you said that you do respect the lore of GW1, but now i see that you really don’t. And that you really do not care one bit about GW1 players. And yes, if what the trailer shows is really going to happen then i am done with this game.

Jumping to conclusions much? We don’t even know in details what is going on, and more improtant, if it even works. Because of the pressure of the elder dragon, it could be quite possible that they (!) try (!) to lift the curse, although it doesn’t follow the legends. They have to try something, maybe it will work.

Thalador.4218:

Shiren.9532:

I dunno, it can make sense if you follow the prophecy. Originally Ascalon belonged to the charr, it wasn’t human territory, it was charr territory. So if you follow that interpretation, no human could possibly be the true heir, it would need to be a charr.

Ugh… totally wrong. Ascalon wasn’t charr territory to begin with. They conquered it from a primitive species of simian-like humanoids who lived in a greatly divided, tribal communities.

If you want the “true” heir to Ascalon, go fetch a grawl king.

The words “Greatly Divided, Tribal communities” mean they didnt have a king. They were just there, the Charr had the first kingdom of sorts, therefore they were the first to have a ruler of Ascalon. The grawl were most or less just animal natives than the rulers.

Frosch.7809:

I am absolutely freaking out over this. How can they do this?

More than a year ago, in a lore discussion thread about Sohothin, i mentioned that Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, if he is a descendant. And now it looks as if i may be right. Frankly, i am shocked.

ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Sohothin does not belong into the hands of a Charr. I was waiting for a chance to take it away, by force if need be. But no, you turn that Charr into the one to lift the curse of Ascalon. Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, but he is NOT the rightful heir to the kingdom of Ascalon. If anyone, that is Samuelsson. The human kingdom is gone, alright. But what you do here is justifying genocide and ecocide.

I was thinking that making the Charr into a playable race was for the sake of game balance, but now i see that it is obviously favouritism. You are going too far, ArenaNet. Enough is enough. You are favouring a race that caused a genocide of innocents and destroyed Ascalon completely. Many old GW1 players have not forgotten, and really do not like the Charr. I see now how much you care about those players, even less than i thought.

The ghosts deserve to be put to rest. The Charr do not deserve to be freed from a curse they caused by their actions. But that is just my opinion.

Treat your GW1 lore with more respect. Do not let a Charr casually lift the curse during a living story update like this. You could have made a great story out of it, one that stands on its own. You just casually throw it into an update whose focus is something completely different from the whole Ascalon story.

Recently you said that you do respect the lore of GW1, but now i see that you really don’t. And that you really do not care one bit about GW1 players. And yes, if what the trailer shows is really going to happen then i am done with this game.

Can’t quite determine if you are really that mad or just trying to stir something up. Legends are legends, and we have no idea under what circumstances the curse could be removed. And how to interpret them is only Arena.net’s choise. It’s possible that the wielder or Magdaer, whoever he is, is a rightful ruler of Ascalon, and I see nothing bad about such a possibility. History is ironic, why shouldn’t it be in Guild Wars?

If you’re done with this game, okay, nobody forces you to play it.

So wait, the wiki states about Sohothin:

“According to legend, if either this sword or its sister returns to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the ghosts there will finally be laid to rest.”

So… why does Rytlock even need to be the Khan-Ur? Can’t he just hand the blade to the ghost of King Adelbern to lift the curse?

Jake.1430:

Thalador.4218:

Shiren.9532:

I dunno, it can make sense if you follow the prophecy. Originally Ascalon belonged to the charr, it wasn’t human territory, it was charr territory. So if you follow that interpretation, no human could possibly be the true heir, it would need to be a charr.

Ugh… totally wrong. Ascalon wasn’t charr territory to begin with. They conquered it from a primitive species of simian-like humanoids who lived in a greatly divided, tribal communities.

If you want the “true” heir to Ascalon, go fetch a grawl king.

The words “Greatly Divided, Tribal communities” mean they didnt have a king. They were just there, the Charr had the first kingdom of sorts, therefore they were the first to have a ruler of Ascalon. The grawl were most or less just animal natives than the rulers.

Learn to take sarcasm – no matter how truthful it actually is.

Concerning who owned Ascalon or at least had greater claim to her…

…the charr propaganda of Ascalon being their territory from the get-go is the greatest BS I’ve ever heard in GW. Fact is, Ascalon NEVER belonged to the charr to begin with. They came in as conquerors, dominated and enslaved the primitive originals called the grawl, they fought and probably pushed out the dwarves whose empire in Ascalon had spanned from the southern Blazeridge to the northeast, and they fought the Forgotten who also had a presence on the northern shores of the Blazeridge and southern Ascalon. Out of those three, two were defenders or close allies of humanity. Forgotten were their shepherds for a time and assistants to the Six Gods, and the dwarves of old were on good terms with the humanity until their schism and civil war (mind you, Deldrimor still maintained good relationship with both Kryta and Ascalon). If anything, humanity took back what was originally the property of their allies, but those conceded to let them hold it and build their empire there.

Even though it was the Flame Legion that opted to use the Cauldron of Cataclysm, many charr still approve of using it as it “won” back their ill-earned and usurped lands – they approve of the mindless destruction that wrecked a country for decades and led to the slaughter of thousands of innocent, defenseless people.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/cutthroat/TeamKiel/page/2#post2429013

And let’s not forget that Ascalon was a dominantly human kingdom for 1,000+ years. Ascalonians created culture, built and maintained a flourishing civilization, cultivated the land while still managing to remain in balance with nature, constructed wonders… and then the charr came and destroyed it all.

I wonder how much the charr contributed to Ascalon’s welfare during the mere decades (if not a century at best) of their reign… slave pens for the grawl, slaughterhouses, arenas of bloodbath (both for themselves, their prisoners, as well as captured beasts), trampled, unattended fields.

But was Adelbern ever the rightful king of Ascalon?

lordkrall.7241:

But was Adelbern ever the rightful king of Ascalon?

Since we do not know how curses work, the interpretation of “rightful” can vary.
Like i mentioned before it can mean:
- The “rightful king” in the belive of the caster
- The rightful, in the sense of “worthy” person.
- Something a higher might deems worthy
- etc.

Seriously, the whole legend is open to interpretation, since it is not really specific. We basicly have one part of a manual, but we do not know what else is needed

No Adelbern was never the rightful king. The Charr had it before them but to be fair, the Charr did take Ascalon from The Forgotten

Frosch.7809:

I am absolutely freaking out over this. How can they do this?

More than a year ago, in a lore discussion thread about Sohothin, i mentioned that Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, if he is a descendant. And now it looks as if i may be right. Frankly, i am shocked.

ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Sohothin does not belong into the hands of a Charr. I was waiting for a chance to take it away, by force if need be. But no, you turn that Charr into the one to lift the curse of Ascalon. Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, but he is NOT the rightful heir to the kingdom of Ascalon. If anyone, that is Samuelsson. The human kingdom is gone, alright. But what you do here is justifying genocide and ecocide.
dont exaggerate dude it’s a game bad thing shappen there to build up tension and this game is about war and fighting… relax^^

I was thinking that making the Charr into a playable race was for the sake of game balance, but now i see that it is obviously favouritism. You are going too far, ArenaNet. Enough is enough. You are favouring a race that caused a genocide of innocents and destroyed Ascalon completely.
If anything then King Adelbern did the genocide!
he killed all the charr at once and his own people too
the charr attacked the humans yes but only because they wanted their old territory back or not?
Many old GW1 players have not forgotten, and really do not like the Charr. I see now how much you care about those players, even less than i thought.
you act like as if the charr living now are guilty for the things their ancestors did….
what a stupid logic!

The ghosts deserve to be put to rest. The Charr do not deserve to be freed from a curse they caused by their actions. But that is just my opinion.
their actions were justified… the humans sort of deserved it for taking their territory…or at least cant say “how can the evil charr dare to want their land back?”

Treat your GW1 lore with more respect. Do not let a Charr casually lift the curse during a living story update like this. You could have made a great story out of it, one that stands on its own. You just casually throw it into an update whose focus is something completely different from the whole Ascalon story.

Recently you said that you do respect the lore of GW1, but now i see that you really don’t. And that you really do not care one bit about GW1 players. And yes, if what the trailer shows is really going to happen then i am done with this game.

i’m more curious as to why now than to how it’ll be done. i mean, it was the plan all the way two years ago to get magdaer back in good shape, and the best use of those swords would be to get rid of all those freaking ghosts.

trassr justin.9743:

No Adelbern was never the rightful king. The Charr had it before them but to be fair, the Charr did take Ascalon from The Forgotten

Hang on just a moment. Adelbern is the one who started the curse. So wouldn’t the rightful king be whoever is the rightful king in the eyes of the ghosts?

Orangensaft.7139:

you act like as if the charr living now are guilty for the things their ancestors did….
what a stupid logic!

Stupid logic indeed. The Charr of today are not responsible for the things their ancestors did. Them glorifying it makes them accept responsibility though. And they are responsible for waging war against humanity till the beginning of the peace talks.

Orangensaft.7139:

their actions were justified… the humans sort of deserved it for taking their territory…or at least cant say “how can the evil charr dare to want their land back?”

So the humans of Ascalon at the time of the Searing were responsible for the actions of their ancestors of a thousand years ago, right? Oh, wait…that’s pretty stupid logic, is it not? Humanity “deserved” genocide?

Ascalon is Charr land today. It was human land at the time of the Searing.

The Charr did hold humanity responsible, if there are equal rights for every species then humanity can butcher any Charr, including civilians, for the next 750 years. Does Queen Jennah propagate a campaign of annihilation against the Charr? Do you think she ever would?

I can accept fighting mobs who are guilty of such actions in a game, i cannot accept seeing them getting glorified. I do not like to see them turned into a playable species if they see the actions of their ancestors as justified.

Waging a war against another nation is not moral behaviour. Genocide is not justifiable even in a game. You do not burn a sentient being alive, or eat it. You do not murder civilians. You do not have the right to kill innocents for actions of their ancestors of a thousand years ago.

People may say it is just a game, but for me there has to be a certain standard being met, even if it is just a game. If not then i turn away from it. This game has encouraged peaceful cooperation of very different species, my characters are paragons of morality during cutscenes and i am not even given a choice there, but this whole Ascalon affair is a point where the game fails for me in keeping that standard.

Sohothin is an artifact given to humanity by the gods, it should not even work in the hands of a Charr. Allowing a Charr to use such an artifact to lift the curse of Ascalon is either lore-breaking or it means that the gods have turned away from humanity, and not only gone into hiding. Which one is it? This is no small detail imo. It requires an explanation.

My guess is that Rytlock will try to remove the curse and fail, so we’re seeing the start of this story rather than the end. The story can then lead into the 101 other things needed to remove the curse. Nobody needs to worry about lore being broken yet.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Hang on just a moment. Adelbern is the one who started the curse. So wouldn’t the rightful king be whoever is the rightful king in the eyes of the ghosts?

That would depend on the nature of the curse.
It has never been fully explained if the curse was tied to Adelberns power. The power of the Sword or the power of the area itself.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

trassr justin.9743:

No Adelbern was never the rightful king. The Charr had it before them but to be fair, the Charr did take Ascalon from The Forgotten

Hang on just a moment. Adelbern is the one who started the curse. So wouldn’t the rightful king be whoever is the rightful king in the eyes of the ghosts?

I guess we can add this to my list on “how to interpret the legend”

In my opinion we have to wait and see. Right now we do not have enough information on how they want to tackle this “legend”

So, talking about charr being genocidal.

The Searing was a terrible event, yes. However.

Have certain people forgotten what Adelbern did to the land? He, in one fell swoop, not only killed off every charr in Ascalon, but every HUMAN as well. He committed genocide against his own race! And that was the actions of one single person, by his own hand, as opposed to a race that was essentially enslaved by their priests. Adelbern did that of his own free will. Most of the charr of that time, I’m willing to bet were operating under a threat of “do this or we kill you”.

Verene.1480:

So, talking about charr being genocidal.

The Searing was a terrible event, yes. However.

Have certain people forgotten what Adelbern did to the land? He, in one fell swoop, not only killed off every charr in Ascalon, but every HUMAN as well. He committed genocide against his own race! And that was the actions of one single person, by his own hand, as opposed to a race that was essentially enslaved by their priests. Adelbern did that of his own free will. Most of the charr of that time, I’m willing to bet were operating under a threat of “do this or we kill you”.

Which makes me wonder, why do we not see ghost animals and grawls/whatnot that were undoubtedly still in that area? Was it ever specifically specified that it only targeted humans and Charrs?

A twofold attack:
1. Kill everything
2. Keep the land

Adelbern knew he would not be able to fend of the Charr, so to keep the land he used his most powerful weapon to kill his opponents.

However this attack kills everyone affected and leaves the land open for conquering. Something he did not want. This is his land. The land of humans.

To assure that the land will stay that way, he used the sacrifice of himself and his people to summon an immortal army, which is bound to defend the land.

These constructs have limited thinking capabilities and are often bound to their place.
Their simple order is to attack and protect the land of old Ascalon.
Thats why they attack human players as well.
Thats why they try to repair the great wall when it is attacked.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are two different games. The narratives were not created by the same people. Whether you think that is important or not is up to you. Some things to think about:

Yes, the Charr were there before the Ascalons. But keep in mind the Charr didn’t even call the area Ascalon, it was named that by the humans. So realistically a Charr couldn’t be the rightful king of Ascalon since that name historically only refers to a human kingdom.

Magdaer and Sohothin were originally peace offerings from Orr, it’s wasn’t clear why or what “peace” they were meant for. At any rate, their “divine” nature is a recent phenomenom. Their purpose and function in this game isn’t necessarily tied to GW1 conventions.

One the flip side, our own moral compass shouldn’t hold sway in a fantasy setting. If the way of the world in a fictional narrative is slavery, genocide, murder, etc. then that is just right as rain for that setting. It’s not supposed to adhere to our own conventions of what is right and wrong. It exists in its own dimension, and our Earthen morality is irrelevant there.

Verene.1480:

So, talking about charr being genocidal.

The Searing was a terrible event, yes. However.

Have certain people forgotten what Adelbern did to the land? He, in one fell swoop, not only killed off every charr in Ascalon, but every HUMAN as well. He committed genocide against his own race! And that was the actions of one single person, by his own hand, as opposed to a race that was essentially enslaved by their priests. Adelbern did that of his own free will. Most of the charr of that time, I’m willing to bet were operating under a threat of “do this or we kill you”.

Well to be fair the charr that were affected were all invaders and in that sense it could be justifyable.

Against the humans you could argue that it was genocide. But then again those humans that didnt flee with rurik were already doomed to die by the hands of the charr since they already more or less lost the war.

Verene.1480:

So, talking about charr being genocidal.

The Searing was a terrible event, yes. However.

Have certain people forgotten what Adelbern did to the land? He, in one fell swoop, not only killed off every charr in Ascalon, but every HUMAN as well. He committed genocide against his own race! And that was the actions of one single person, by his own hand, as opposed to a race that was essentially enslaved by their priests. Adelbern did that of his own free will. Most of the charr of that time, I’m willing to bet were operating under a threat of “do this or we kill you”.

What did Adelbern do to the land?

Nothing. Ascalon got destroyed by the Searing, it was a wasteland.

What did Adelbern do to the humans living in Ascalon?

The Foefire made them rise again from their graves, reliving the last day of their lives all over again. That is why we got ghosts that talk about leaving to Kryta with Rurik, or reporting that Burntfur and his army are crossing the wall.

Adelbern killed the last human defenders that were still alive within Ascalon City. All of Ascalon except for Ebonhawke was under Charr control already, and they were not exactly known for letting humans go on with their life.

I’d prefer to get incinerated in the blink of an eye to falling into the hands of the Charr. Adelbern can be blamed for forcing the dead to rise again and exist as ghosts. And that’s it.

The Charr bear the responsibility for the Searing and the Foefire, they started this war. And no, actions from a thousand years ago do not count for that. Except in the eyes of the Charr who bear hatred for a thousand years.

The majority of the Charr of today take pride in their actions, they show no regret. Not exactly what you expect from a race enslaved by their shamans and forced to do what they did back then.

They started the war in a (ingame) human point of view, plus I don’t see how they are responsible for the Foefire. King Adelbern was a man who wasn’t really sane, even in Guild Wars: Beyond. Even in Prophecies, his judgement was clouded by his pride. Back then, with the Foefire, he chose to kill all of his own people together with the Charr in a huge area, and on top of that he’d chained them up (mentally) in a war, what will be ongoing for infinitive time in their mindset. That’s in my eyes evenly cruel as the Searing, what was mostly a Flame Legion plan. We all know their sanity wasn’t that well either.

Frosch – do not despair – one day we shall reclaim Ascalon and end the charr once and for all!

skullmount.1758:

I think people might be jumping to conclusions with Rytlock and the Ascalonian ghosts. It doesn’t show that whatever he does works or that it is going to ‘remove’ the ghosts.
He might be trying to put the ghosts to rest, but it might/probably won’t work.
(haven’t fully read the article yet, so maybe that says something about it)

Well, you need both and Eir has Magdaer. That and it is a “two-part” episode, if not more, so this isn’t the whole story. Maybe in his arrogance he tries to do something, something goes wrong, and then we’re faced with trying to get Magdaer over there. Be it through Logan or Jenna. Very interesting.

Ronin.7381:

skullmount.1758:

I think people might be jumping to conclusions with Rytlock and the Ascalonian ghosts. It doesn’t show that whatever he does works or that it is going to ‘remove’ the ghosts.
He might be trying to put the ghosts to rest, but it might/probably won’t work.
(haven’t fully read the article yet, so maybe that says something about it)

Well, you need both and Eir has Magdaer. That and it is a “two-part” episode, if not more, so this isn’t the whole story. Maybe in his arrogance he tries to do something, something goes wrong, and then we’re faced with trying to get Magdaer over there. Be it through Logan or Jenna. Very interesting.

The prophecy actually states that it’s either Sohothin or Magdaer, not both. But who knows, maybe they’ll find out it’s more complicated than it seems, as prophecies usually are.

Frosch.7809:

Verene.1480:

So, talking about charr being genocidal.

The Searing was a terrible event, yes. However.

Have certain people forgotten what Adelbern did to the land? He, in one fell swoop, not only killed off every charr in Ascalon, but every HUMAN as well. He committed genocide against his own race! And that was the actions of one single person, by his own hand, as opposed to a race that was essentially enslaved by their priests. Adelbern did that of his own free will. Most of the charr of that time, I’m willing to bet were operating under a threat of “do this or we kill you”.

What did Adelbern do to the land?

Nothing. Ascalon got destroyed by the Searing, it was a wasteland.

What did Adelbern do to the humans living in Ascalon?

The Foefire made them rise again from their graves, reliving the last day of their lives all over again. That is why we got ghosts that talk about leaving to Kryta with Rurik, or reporting that Burntfur and his army are crossing the wall.

Adelbern killed the last human defenders that were still alive within Ascalon City. All of Ascalon except for Ebonhawke was under Charr control already, and they were not exactly known for letting humans go on with their life.

I’d prefer to get incinerated in the blink of an eye to falling into the hands of the Charr. Adelbern can be blamed for forcing the dead to rise again and exist as ghosts. And that’s it.

The Charr bear the responsibility for the Searing and the Foefire, they started this war. And no, actions from a thousand years ago do not count for that. Except in the eyes of the Charr who bear hatred for a thousand years.

The majority of the Charr of today take pride in their actions, they show no regret. Not exactly what you expect from a race enslaved by their shamans and forced to do what they did back then.

Frosch, please.

The Foefire engulfed almost all of Ascalon in a “wave of destruction.” Adelbern is always considered mad, or insane. His actions have never been painted in a positive light.

The Foefire did not make the Ascalonians “rise again from their graves,” because the wave of burning white light didn’t even leave them graves, it killed every Ascalonian where they stood, their souls ripped from their broken skeletons and cursed to be trapped forever in those last moments, seeing every living being as a monstrous Charr and having no choice but to attack them, only to be dissipated, and reform to start the trapped cycle over again. This is a fate far worse than any that would have befallen them at the hands of the Charr, because at least if the Charr killed them, their spirits would have been able to rest.

Adelbern was a monster.

Shiren.9532:

Why was Rox in the background? She abandoned the charr for the biconics, turning her back on Rytlock’s warband and choosing Braham over her mission. Of all the charr in Tyria, why would Rytlock work with her?

She didn’t abandon the Charr, she abandoned the opportunity to join Rytlock’s warband. She’s a gladium, still part of Charr society just right at the bottom even lower than scrapper warbands. Rytlock is still her superior officer.

DraconicDak.9340:

She’s been supposed to be reporting back for a couple months now, but has been afraid of Rytlock’s reaction to her giving up the Scarlet kill, and thus has been hiding from him. I’d guess she’s going to at least face him this chapter.

Yeah, we see Rytlock chewing her out.

Thalador.4218:

Ugh… totally wrong. Ascalon wasn’t charr territory to begin with. They conquered it from a primitive species of simian-like humanoids who lived in a greatly divided, tribal communities.

If you want the “true” heir to Ascalon, go fetch a grawl king.

According to Charr scholars humans are close relatives to grawl. Then again according to human scholars Charr are close relatives to grawl. Poor grawl no one wants anything to do with them.

Frosch.7809:

I
ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Bah humans were so full of them selves back then, it’s good that they get taken down a peg or two.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So wait, the wiki states about Sohothin:

“According to legend, if either this sword or its sister returns to the haunted remains of Ascalon City in the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon, the ghosts there will finally be laid to rest.”

So… why does Rytlock even need to be the Khan-Ur? Can’t he just hand the blade to the ghost of King Adelbern to lift the curse?

As previously discussed, maybe there is no human ‘rightful’ king…

trassr justin.9743:

No Adelbern was never the rightful king. The Charr had it before them but to be fair, the Charr did take Ascalon from The Forgotten

So who owns it, the people who stole it or the people who stole?

DraconicDak.9340:

Adelbern was a monster.

He really was and that’s what made the story so interesting. His pride was his fuel, even when Rurik had the right idea Adelburn basically went against the better decision to hold a devastated land. As a result his own people paid for it, they were forced to hold their posts and had largely no idea.

CureForLiving.5360:

So who owns it, the people who stole it or the people who stole?

I think there’s a catch, at some point in history this legend starts and at that point there’s a missing link we’re over looking. That being said, Forefire was conducted only within the past 250 years so the legend is fairly new and susceptible to mistake identities. Maybe in Adelburn’s prideful insanity he failed to consider what he was bringing upon his own people, it was rushed and not thoroughly thought over to consider the final outcome.

Even without taking the Charr issue into account, Adelbern wasn’t the rightful king! The next in line for Doric’s throne was essentially cast aside because the people thought Adelbern fought really well in the Guild Wars.

Makes you wonder what happened to Barradin’s brother, anyway…

Frosch.7809:

I am absolutely freaking out over this. How can they do this?

More than a year ago, in a lore discussion thread about Sohothin, i mentioned that Rytlock may be a candidate for Khan-Ur, if he is a descendant. And now it looks as if i may be right. Frankly, i am shocked.

ArenaNet, how can you once more trample onto GW1 lore in this way? How can you?

Pipe down mate. You haven’t even played the story yet and you’re already jumping to conclusions.