Guild Wars 2

She has a somewhat bad side to her. She has red hair. She would make a bad-kitten villain.

She’s iconic.

It would be awesome.

Any idea whether or not the LS has made hints that might indicate it was her?

Thoughts?

Nothing’s indicated as such so far…although very little concrete info has been given on Scarlet. If she’s the suspicious figure (and from what I’m reading it looks like that may be the case), then she’s sylvari and couldn’t be Livia unless some lore gymnastics were performed.

Livia is supposedly the new leader to the Shining Blade, who are allies to Lion’s Arch, and probably also to Queen Jennah. Does not make sense for her to be Scarlet.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Livia is supposedly the new leader to the Shining Blade, who are allies to Lion’s Arch, and probably also to Queen Jennah. Does not make sense for her to be Scarlet.

I think you’re mixing facts from 250 years ago and today.

Livia was named 250 years ago the leader of the Shining Blade (when the previous leader was named leader of the seraph at the end of the War in Kryta story), that became the bodyguards of queen Salma after fighting the White Mantle during the war.

They weren’t “allies of Lion’s Arc”, Lion’s Arc was Kryta’s capitol and they were the bodyguards of Kryta’s queen, so basically it was their capitol, not their allied city.

Currently Countess Anise is the leader of the Shining Blade, and they’re still bodyguards to the queen (Jenah in this case). Lion’s Arc is no longer considered part of their domain, though that city is allied with all good races.

Livia is dead, the only way for her to still be alive is in undead/lich form (and there is a chance for that as she found the Scepter of Orr). Note: Apparently in the Sea of Sorrow’s book her fate is mentioned, but I haven’t read it yet (not released in my country), so I can’t say what really happened but someone could. But even if she stayed alive, Anise and not Livia is the current leader of the Shining Blade.

If i remember correctly, Livia appears to look surprisingly young in SoS, so she probably extended her lifespan somehow and could in theory still be around in GW2, although i doubt that. She was a stalwart defender of Kryta and i doubt she would ever turn against it willingly, if she was still around.

The little “joke” Anise played on Logan makes me kinda suspicious of her, so i think chances are higher that she is Scarlet than Livia. But it could as well be someone new, and not anyone we met before.

i feel bad for asking this instead of doing my own research, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of livia’s lore? far as i know, she was just a necromancer refugee that worked for a grumpy asura and joins your party in EotN. why would she be immortal? or evil?

BrunoBRS.5178:

i feel bad for asking this instead of doing my own research, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of livia’s lore? far as i know, she was just a necromancer refugee that worked for a grumpy asura and joins your party in EotN. why would she be immortal? or evil?

One of the novels tells us that she is still alive, and looks surprisingly young. Since we see her get her hands on the Scepter of Orr in the EotN ending cinematic, it is assumed that she might have found a way to extend her own life. There is no indication that she is evil, but perhaps she is hungry for power (which is a normal thing for necromancers really).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i feel bad for asking this instead of doing my own research, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of livia’s lore? far as i know, she was just a necromancer refugee that worked for a grumpy asura and joins your party in EotN. why would she be immortal? or evil?

One of the novels tells us that she is still alive, and looks surprisingly young. Since we see her get her hands on the Scepter of Orr in the EotN ending cinematic, it is assumed that she might have found a way to extend her own life. There is no indication that she is evil, but perhaps she is hungry for power (which is a normal thing for necromancers really).

i really don’t remember that scene… maybe it doesn’t play out if you don’t beat prophecies? it’s the only campaign i never played >.>

For some reason I’m convinced Livia is Anise.

Scarlet is most likely that “Mysterious Figure” saw during the Opening Ceremony. She has this kind of “bat-kitten crazy, fools with people leader” kind of personality going in her voice.

Lokheit.7943:

I think you’re mixing facts from 250 years ago and today.

WARNING: SEA OF SORROWS SPOILERS

More like 70 years ago and today. In Sea of Sorrows, she acts like the leader of those Shining Blade members – so if she isn’t the leader, she’s still high up on the chain of command.

Furthermore, she outright states in the novel that she doesn’t care who’s on the throne, so long as someone is – Jennah’s the only heir to her father. Removing Jennah would eliminate what Livia was so fanatical about not only 250 years ago, but 70 years ago. If her personality didn’t change in the course of 180 years, I doubt they would have in the 70 years following when she was still fanatically devout to protecting Kryta despite Prince Enair being crowned.

Lokheit.7943:

Currently Countess Anise is the leader of the Shining Blade

Openly, at least. Much like the Master of Whisper’s identity is unknown except to select Order of Whispers agents, it’s possible that Livia’s identity is similar.

On your point about LA v. Jennah – the Aetherblades, and thus Scarlet more likely than not given how they’re active without Mai, are attacking the Queen’s Jubilee. I don’t think Livia would have any need for such unless she went batkitten crazy, which nothing points in the direction of given the 180 years of stable mentality.

Frosch.7809:

The little “joke” Anise played on Logan makes me kinda suspicious of her, so i think chances are higher that she is Scarlet than Livia. But it could as well be someone new, and not anyone we met before.

For the same reason Livia is highly unlikely to be Scarlet, Anise is highly unlikely to be Scarlet. Scarlet seems to be the one behind the Aetherblade attacks, and the Aetherblades had just put Jennah and others in danger. No one of the Shining Blade would do such a thing.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i feel bad for asking this instead of doing my own research, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of livia’s lore? far as i know, she was just a necromancer refugee that worked for a grumpy asura and joins your party in EotN. why would she be immortal? or evil?

It’s unknown still why she has longevity. She appears no older in Sea of Sorrows than she does in Eye of the North, except for her hair having a stripe of white.

She does say in Sea of Sorrows that she spent years studying the Scepter of Orr and Orrian magic, so this likely has something to do with her longevity, but nothing concrete is said.

And there’s absolutely no evidence to indicate that she’s evil.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i really don’t remember that scene… maybe it doesn’t play out if you don’t beat prophecies? it’s the only campaign i never played >.>

It always plays.

Kyrel.8942:

For some reason I’m convinced Livia is Anise.

Anise is a mesmer; Livia is a necromancer. Anise is a childhood friend of Jennah; Livia’s way older. They look nothing alike.

Unlikely to the nth degree.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i feel bad for asking this instead of doing my own research, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of livia’s lore? far as i know, she was just a necromancer refugee that worked for a grumpy asura and joins your party in EotN. why would she be immortal? or evil?

Livia was a member of the Shining Blade resistance movement in Kryta, fighting against the White Mantle and their gods, the Mursaat. Sent by the Blade to try to find a weapon to deal with the mantle she ended up becoming the assisstant of Gadd, a notorious Asuran scientist who studied the Bloodstones and was know for risking the health and life of his assisstants. Livia finally had enough of Gadd when he was willing to risk her death for his research and joined up with the heroes of Tyria for some time, as long as it suited her.

She was known for being passionate about her defense of Kryta, caring for its people, and her willingness to sacrifice pretty much anything and everyone for that, as well as her undying devotion to Salma. In the dialogue of EotN she mentions traveling to Arah, and is seen finding the Scepter of Orr in the final cutscene, although we do not know what exactly happened there.

She later reappeared during the War in Kryta, the last phase of the civil war in Kryta, having the Asuran outcast researchers Zinn and Blimm in her custody, and forcing them to work on a project to develop a shield against the Mursaats Spectral Agony, making clear to them that they either delivered or she would kill them. She looked after them in Zinn’s hidden laboratory (where today’s Divinity’s Reach stands) and got them to safety during the last offensive of the Mantle, participating in the Battle for Lion’s Arch.

She is mentioned as a potential candidate to lead the Shining Blade during the times of the Flameseeker Prophecies, and after the Battle for LA she finally becomes leader of the Blade, a position she apparently holds for decades, as seen in SoS. She apparently became a person of great influence in Kryta.

In GoA we see that the Asuran scientist Blimm has “Favourite of Livia” written on his tombstone.

We do not know if she turned immortal, and although she wasn’t exactly evil she was ruthless and intimidating. Underneath her cool attitude she was probably more passionate than most people. Did i forget anything of importance?

i just asked the evil thing because, well, there’s a thread trying to pin the blame of all these murders and massacres and conspiracies on her, and we’re posting in it.

Well I think of all people on the planet, Livia is probably the least likely person to be Scarlet given what we know about her. Besides, I thought it was pretty obvious that the mysterious figure is Scarlet.

And if this is the case (she does wear red, so it would seem rather obvious) that would mean that I was correct when I said that no one should assume to know what race Scarlet is. Just because Marjory felt someone grab her from behind, doesn’t mean she got a good look at that person’s arms. She could have covered her arms after all…. and surprise, surprise: She wears very long gloves, and is Sylvari.

Livia forcing the asuran to work might be the Inquest link to the aetherblade tech they now carry,also Lvia might have gone insane from the scpter of Orr,being manipulated,been exiled for suspicious or less than stellar behaviour and helds a grudge for trying to protect Kryta and getting no thanks,it could be done,also she apeared in the recent book as master Exemplar of the shinning blade accompanying a prince of Kryta,75 years prior to gw2 beginning(the actual game)and looking surprisingly young too

Drakenvold.9761:

Livia forcing the asuran to work might be the Inquest link to the aetherblade tech they now carry,

Livia working with normal Asura scientists, does not link her to the Inquest. There is no link here. If anything, Livia’s discussions with Gadd show that she disagrees with taking reckless risks, which happens to be the Inquest philosophy. So Livia’s character could not be further from that mindset.

Drakenvold.9761:

also Livia might have gone insane from the scepter of Orr,being manipulated,

There are no indications that the Scepter of Orr drives people insane. We know it gives people power, that is what it does. It boosts their energy. It increases their energy regeneration when held, and boosts the energy of anyone near the scepter when it is on the ground. It may also have ties to being able to control the titans, but this last part is speculation. It is a logical deduction that since the Lich wanted to have the scepter first, before unleashing the titans, that it there for was a requirement in some way. But it’s also possible that he simply needed it to boost his powers. But there are no indications that the Scepter of Orr drives people insane. We also see Khilbron cast Chimera of Intensity, which may or may not be coming from the Scepter of Orr.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Chimera_of_Intensity

Drakenvold.9761:

been exiled for suspicious or less than stellar behaviour and helds a grudge for trying to protect Kryta and getting no thanks

Why would she hold a grudge? Livia loves Kryta, and would die to defend it. She is not interested in personal glory or recognition.

Everything we know about Livia directly contradicts what you say. There is no reason what so ever for Livia to be even remotely affiliated with the Aetherblades.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i really don’t remember that scene… maybe it doesn’t play out if you don’t beat prophecies? it’s the only campaign i never played >.>

It always plays when you beat Eye of the North. You really don’t remember this scene?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/2/29/Livia_in_Arah.jpg

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And if this is the case (she does wear red, so it would seem rather obvious) that would mean that I was correct when I said that no one should assume to know what race Scarlet is. Just because Marjory felt someone grab her from behind, doesn’t mean she got a good look at that person’s arms. She could have covered her arms after all…. and surprise, surprise: She wears very long gloves, and is Sylvari.

1) I proclaimed Scarlet would be sylvari. So :P

2) Scarlet is not Mr. E – Mr. E is a dude, and he’s the one who grabbed Marjory from behind, not Scarlet. You’re mixing the two characters up.

Drakenvold.9761:

Livia forcing the asuran to work might be the Inquest link to the aetherblade tech they now carry,also Lvia might have gone insane from the scpter of Orr,being manipulated,been exiled for suspicious or less than stellar behaviour and helds a grudge for trying to protect Kryta and getting no thanks,it could be done,also she apeared in the recent book as master Exemplar of the shinning blade accompanying a prince of Kryta,75 years prior to gw2 beginning(the actual game)and looking surprisingly young too

It was stated that Livia did obtain the Scepter of Orr but only had it “for a short time” – in Sea of Sorrows, she no longer has the Scepter of Orr and is very much not insane or being manipulated.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I proclaimed Scarlet would be sylvari. So :P

Good call, once again.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

2) Scarlet is not Mr. E – Mr. E is a dude, and he’s the one who grabbed Marjory from behind, not Scarlet. You’re mixing the two characters up.

Ah, you’re right. Whoopsy. Thanks for correcting that. But, it still holds for Mr E as well. He might as well be Sylvari for all we know, if Marjory didn’t get a good look at him, and if his arms were covered.

BTW, didn’t the Lich also say something along the lines of creatures obeying the power of the Scepter of Orr? I seem to remember him saying something along those lines in one of the cut scenes.

EDIT: Found it! He literally commands a titan, saying: “Yield! Yield to the Scepter of Orr, I command you!” -This implies the Scepter of Orr might be able to control the minds of the titans. And then he says: “It worked! Just like the Flameseeker Prophecies said! It worked!” -Which implies he wasn’t sure if the Scepter would allow him to command the titans, until actually using it. But that’s about all we know about the powers of the Scepter of Orr.

“Yield to the Scepter of Orr. I command you.”
“It worked. Just as the prophecy said. It worked!”

Aww someone beat me to it…

Regarding what the Scepter of Orr may control…

“I will follow the Scepter.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sanctum_Cay#Intermediate_dialogue

Khilbron also claims that the Scepter allows him to control the undead, though incidentally the only thing we see him create on the spot would be the spirits of the White Mantle as Smoke Phantoms (during THK) – the ones in Sanctum Cay were likely already present and under his influence.

Then slap in the Staff of the Mists’ capability to control the physical and the Scepter of Orr being the twin staff – mechanically the Staff’s effects are shown via affecting the health of the PC and NPCs, whereas the Scepter’s effects are shown via affecting the energy of the PC.

Overall, this indicates that the Scepter of Orr influences the metaphysical (aka souls). The titans were made from tormented souls as well, so it fits.

How this leads to Livia obtaining longevity is unknown – if it even does mind you (she says to have studied Orrian magic on a whole so it’s possible she obtained her longevity elsewhere).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i really don’t remember that scene… maybe it doesn’t play out if you don’t beat prophecies? it’s the only campaign i never played >.>

It always plays when you beat Eye of the North. You really don’t remember this scene?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/2/29/Livia_in_Arah.jpg

i can confidently say this is the first time i see that scene, or that staff, for that matter.

also, “livia in arah”? i thought arah was deep down in the ocean by the time prophecies really starts. the place looks boggy, but definitely not “20.000 leagues under the sea” level.

EDIT: asked my friend that went through all campaigns with me, he has never seen that scene before either, though he does remember livia herself. he never played prophecies either (though he did own it)

Bruno, you should have long ago realized… wiki naming are not to be taken for granted. >.>

Odd that you two never saw that scene. It was always there in the cinematic. You didn’t go skipping Ogden’s Benediction did you? Can always hop in GW1 and rewatch it to see for yourself if you can see it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Bruno, you should have long ago realized… wiki naming are not to be taken for granted. >.>

Odd that you two never saw that scene. It was always there in the cinematic. You didn’t go skipping Ogden’s Benediction did you? Can always hop in GW1 and rewatch it to see for yourself if you can see it.

i looked up the scene, and while i remember most of it, i do not remember livia’s part at all lol. maybe my brain just brushed it off as irrelevant, since there were kitten walks and dragon awakenings to be watched :P

and i figured it was datamined or something, but now that i think about it, it’s a gameplay screenshot, not a loading screen… i need to go to bed >.>

i dont see why scarlet would be livia though it would be interesting to see her again in gw2 (i rather think if that were ever to happen they would also do a cleansing of orr arc and bring back the sceptor).

That mysterious figure though what if they turned out to be one of the unknown firstborn sylvari, that could be cool

I would like to meet Livia and chit-chat with her about the old times. I can’t really picture her as Scarlet though, plus I also think the mysterious Sylvari is more likely to be Scarlet.

Kyrel.8942:

For some reason I’m convinced Livia is Anise.

Not the same person no, but maybe Anise is Livia’s daughter.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

That mysterious figure though what if they turned out to be one of the unknown firstborn sylvari, that could be cool

Scarlet of the Firstborn?

I could see this. But to have two evil Firstborn…. I think that’d be something that would get mentioned beforehand.

Scarlet being someone we already met (or know from lore) and who turns out to be an “evil mastermind” would be far more interesting than her just being any Sylvari-turned-evil. It would make her slightly more interesting than right now. At the moment i couldn’t care less about her, she is far from being a “nemesis”.

^—-this,totally agree,if it is Livia in disguise that would be cool,a random sylvari..not so much..

With the theme of this content being heavily based on Mesmer magic it’s possible that this figure isn’t a Sylvari at all. Though there isn’t any particular reason at the moment that would tell the need to use such a disguise, I admit it’s outlandish. Would it benefit anyone to frame any particular Sylvari?

BrunoBRS.5178:

i can confidently say this is the first time i see that scene, or that staff, for that matter.

also, “livia in arah”? i thought arah was deep down in the ocean by the time prophecies really starts. the place looks boggy, but definitely not “20.000 leagues under the sea” level.

To clarify, after you beat Prophecies at the ring of fire, it is Glint who takes the Scepter of Orr from you (she appears as a vision). The scepter disappears, and we do not know where it goes.

Some undetermined time after that, Livia finds the Scepter of Orr. Of course she doesn’t find it in Orr, because we have no indication that Glint returned the scepter to that place. Where she does find it however, we don’t know. It’s a very brief scene, and a glimpse of the future. We have no idea what Glint did with the Scepter of Orr either.

Now the idea that Livia would be Anise in disguise, is absurd. Anise is a mesmer, Livia is a necromancer. Being a necromancer myself, those two professions don’t exactly like each other. Lyssa is Grenth’s polar opposite in many ways. So it would seem very unlikely to me that Livia would start practicing mesmer magic all of a sudden. And it would also seem very unlikely to me that if she had children, that she would teach them to be mesmers. Parents tend to teach their children the same line of magic as their own.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Of course she doesn’t find it in Orr, because we have no indication that Glint returned the scepter to that place. Where she does find it however, we don’t know.

“You survived. I’m pleased. When I return to Kryta, I shall say that heroes still exist in the world. But first, there is another place I must go… a little city called Arah…” (Livia during the Epilogue of EotN)

While we can’t say for sure that Livia really did go to Arah we can’t rule it out either, or that she found the scepter there (although i do see no reason why Glint should have returned the scepter to Orr, as a former Elder dragon champion, and with Zhaitan resting there).

what if Kiel is in fact Scarlet and Mr E from the letters is Evon???

While a sylvari may be able to pass as a human with clothing covering their skin, I doubt a charr can sneak up to someone from behind and pull off being non-charr. Furthermore, Mr. E holds interest in Divinity’s Reach – Evon doesn’t.

There’s nothing to support Kiel being Scarlet either.

That tinfoil hat speculation doesn’t go far at all.

Frosch.7809:

“You survived. I’m pleased. When I return to Kryta, I shall say that heroes still exist in the world. But first, there is another place I must go… a little city called Arah…” (Livia during the Epilogue of EotN)

While we can’t say for sure that Livia really did go to Arah we can’t rule it out either, or that she found the scepter there (although i do see no reason why Glint should have returned the scepter to Orr, as a former Elder dragon champion, and with Zhaitan resting there).

Yes, good point. While it would not make sense for Glint to send the scepter there, we can’t rule it out either. All we know is that at some point Livia does find the Scepter of Orr somewhere, and for some reasons prolongs her life and stays youthful (which may not even be related to her finding of the scepter).

Keep in mind that during the time of Guild Wars 1, Arah is at the bottom of the ocean, with only minor charred islands full of undead that remain above water. The waters are treacherous, and no one in their right mind would sail there. So if the Scepter of Orr was send back to Arah, then it would either have to be above water on one of the islands, or in some sort of sealed underground chamber, or Livia visited Orr after it was raised back from the bottom of the sea. Although with Zhaitan and his minions, it wouldn’t make much sense for her to go there without a large army to protect her.

I hope this is clarified at some point in future story content. It would be nice to see Livia again.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Goatjugsoup.8637:

That mysterious figure though what if they turned out to be one of the unknown firstborn sylvari, that could be cool

Scarlet of the Firstborn?

I could see this. But to have two evil Firstborn…. I think that’d be something that would get mentioned beforehand.

Well it could be that she conducts all her evil in secret like palpatine in star wars and noone has made a connection between her public persona and her other life.
Or perhaps she thinks her actions are for the greater good and either they are and we dont know or they are misguided.
Or maybe she left her people and they don’t really know what she’s been up to.

Plenty of possibilities although they are all speculation at this point.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Or maybe she left her people and they don’t really know what she’s been up to.

Unless she became a Soundless, that’s impossible for sylvari thanks to the Dream of Dreams.

Considering we are reaching the end of this living story arc, it’s almost definite that Scarlet is the sylvari.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Frosch.7809:

“You survived. I’m pleased. When I return to Kryta, I shall say that heroes still exist in the world. But first, there is another place I must go… a little city called Arah…” (Livia during the Epilogue of EotN)

While we can’t say for sure that Livia really did go to Arah we can’t rule it out either, or that she found the scepter there (although i do see no reason why Glint should have returned the scepter to Orr, as a former Elder dragon champion, and with Zhaitan resting there).

Yes, good point. While it would not make sense for Glint to send the scepter there, we can’t rule it out either. All we know is that at some point Livia does find the Scepter of Orr somewhere, and for some reasons prolongs her life and stays youthful (which may not even be related to her finding of the scepter).

Keep in mind that during the time of Guild Wars 1, Arah is at the bottom of the ocean, with only minor charred islands full of undead that remain above water. The waters are treacherous, and no one in their right mind would sail there. So if the Scepter of Orr was send back to Arah, then it would either have to be above water on one of the islands, or in some sort of sealed underground chamber, or Livia visited Orr after it was raised back from the bottom of the sea. Although with Zhaitan and his minions, it wouldn’t make much sense for her to go there without a large army to protect her.

I hope this is clarified at some point in future story content. It would be nice to see Livia again.

I do have to state, we do not know for a fact that anyone, Glint included, knew that Zhaitan was below Arah. I mean Arah was where she was freed, why would the Forgotten do it there if there was an Elder Dragon present? And though Glint has the ability to sense the minds of others, it could well be that other Elder Dragons are immune to her ability.

Because of this, it could be that putting the Scepter of Orr back in Arah was merely a way of keeping it in a safe place. Obviously her lair would have been a safer location, but perhaps having the knowledge that Kralkatorrik would eventually come for her kept her from placing it there, in hopes that he wouldn’t get his teeth around such a magically potent object. Idk, I think I’m to the point of rambling, lol.

if its a random suspect/shady looking sylvari…thats cheap..
lets see

Narcemus.1348:

I do have to state, we do not know for a fact that anyone, Glint included, knew that Zhaitan was below Arah. I mean Arah was where she was freed, why would the Forgotten do it there if there was an Elder Dragon present? And though Glint has the ability to sense the minds of others, it could well be that other Elder Dragons are immune to her ability.

She would be a pretty rubbish Dragon Prophet if she didn’t know about the Elder Dragons. You know… being a dragon herself AND a prophet on top of that.

Narcemus.1348:

Because of this, it could be that putting the Scepter of Orr back in Arah was merely a way of keeping it in a safe place.

Just for clarification, we have no reason to assume that the scepter was returned to Arah…. right? As far as I know, all we know is that the scepter disappeared, and was later acquired by Livia. We don’t know where, even though she mentions the idea of paying Arah a visit. That doesn’t mean that the scepter was returned to Arah. It’s not impossible, but currently there’s just not enough evidence to prove either hypothesis.

Narcemus.1348:

Obviously her lair would have been a safer location,

No, Glint is clearly hiding. Keeping such an object of great power in her own lair, would undoubtedly draw unwanted attention to her hiding place. The smartest place to hide it, would be somewhere where no one could get to it, far away from her.

Narcemus.1348:

but perhaps having the knowledge that Kralkatorrik would eventually come for her kept her from placing it there, in hopes that he wouldn’t get his teeth around such a magically potent object. Idk, I think I’m to the point of rambling, lol.

I don’t think there’s anywhere on the planet where Glint could have hidden the scepter from the Elder Dragons. But I doubt she had the Elder Dragons in mind when hiding it to begin with. After all, during Prophecies humans and Mursaat were a much bigger threat. I think she was merely trying to keep the scepter out of the hands of people.

Aha, finally a time to mention this.

“I don’t think there’s anywhere on the planet where Glint could have hidden the scepter from the Elder Dragons.”

In the Godslost Swamp, at the Priory camp, there’s a mention of a journal from a female that tried opening a portal to the Underworld. Her fate is unknown, all that is left is the journal and a ritual, which is used to open a portal and a Reaver comes through.

May be something completely unrelated, but found it interesting.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

She would be a pretty rubbish Dragon Prophet if she didn’t know about the Elder Dragons. You know… being a dragon herself AND a prophet on top of that.

I don’t see what being a dragon has to do with knowing about where an Elder Dragon went to sleep while you were hiding (and protecting) races.

I mean, think about it. The Six Gods built a nation on top of Zhaitan. The Forgotten were allied with the Six Gods… do you really think the Forgotten would keep quiet if they knew Zhaitan was there? Heck, that may be why the gods left – when they finally for once tapped into Zhaitan’s power, the Forgotten realized it was an Elder Dragon and told the gods about it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

No, Glint is clearly hiding. Keeping such an object of great power in her own lair, would undoubtedly draw unwanted attention to her hiding place. The smartest place to hide it, would be somewhere where no one could get to it, far away from her.

To counter your argument: she was collecting Kralkatorrik’s blood and a spear made from one of his spines. The blood, at least, being magically potent. She was already bringing unwanted attention to her hiding place.

Eluveitie.1290:

In the Godslost Swamp, at the Priory camp, there’s a mention of a journal from a female that tried opening a portal to the Underworld. Her fate is unknown, all that is left is the journal and a ritual, which is used to open a portal and a Reaver comes through.

Completely unrelated, but interesting none the less. I’m not sure if Glint could have hidden the scepter off world (in the Mists). Currently it seems that the Elder Dragons can also access the Mists (during the Norn personal story we see Sons of Svanir traveling through the Mists). I don’t think the staff would be safe in the Underworld either, or anywhere else in the Mists.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see what being a dragon has to do with knowing about where an Elder Dragon went to sleep while you were hiding (and protecting) races.

My point being, that if she could foresee the Flameseeker Prophecies, she should at least have seen something of the magnitude as the Elder Dragons coming. She is a dragon herself, so certainly she should know something about the history of dragons. Even if she is not related to the Elder Dragons, if anyone would know about the Elder Dragons, it would be her.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

To counter your argument: she was collecting Kralkatorrik’s blood and a spear made from one of his spines. The blood, at least, being magically potent. She was already bringing unwanted attention to her hiding place.

True. But not during the time of Prophecies.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

My point being, that if she could foresee the Flameseeker Prophecies, she should at least have seen something of the magnitude as the Elder Dragons coming. She is a dragon herself, so certainly she should know something about the history of dragons. Even if she is not related to the Elder Dragons, if anyone would know about the Elder Dragons, it would be her.

The Flameseeker Prophecies are far from accurate, and even what she claims she knew wasn’t accurate either – the titan threat being far worse than she predicted, for example.

Given this, she may not know where Zhaitan specifically would have risen – if she foresaw that, given how nothing indicates she foresaw other major events.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

True. But not during the time of Prophecies.

It’s outright stated she’s been doing that since Kralkatorrik went to hibernation. So yes, during the time of Prophecies as well. Or rather, it was there already.

BrunoBRS.5178:

why would she be immortal? or evil?

Livia showed signs of a ruthless streak, and that could have increased over time as distance from her mortal lifespan meant she had less and less to lose.

That said, I don’t think she would have become Scarlet even if that were the case.

Livia’s motivations don’t appear to have changed much over time, and those motivations don’t match Scarlet’s actions at all. Even though Livia is probably capable of doing everything Scarlet has done, in my opinion it wouldn’t be a logical development for her character.

Scarlet’s actions have ranged from negative to neutral-at-best for Kryta, and Livia’s goals have always been exactly the opposite of that. I just don’t think Livia as Scarlet makes sense from a character standpoint.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Flameseeker Prophecies are far from accurate, and even what she claims she knew wasn’t accurate either – the titan threat being far worse than she predicted, for example.

Given this, she may not know where Zhaitan specifically would have risen – if she foresaw that, given how nothing indicates she foresaw other major events.

Yet you say she was already collecting Kralkatorriks blood since he went into hybernation… so she did know about the Elder Dragons for a very long time.

Besides, hiding the Scepter of Orr by placing it back in Orr? Not a very good hiding place is it?

Do the books give any information regarding when Livia got her hands on the Scepter of Orr?

You’re twisting the meaning of what I said.

She started collecting Kralk’s blood after being freed and he went to sleep. She knew of the Elder Dragons but nothing says she knew where they fell into hibernation except most likely Kralkatorrik.

And hiding the Scepter of Orr in a ruined nation full of undead when it was last seen in Kryta/Shiverpeaks/Ring of Fire (depending on who’d record seeing it)? Yes, sounds like a decent hiding spot if she didn’t know Zhaitan was there. And as said, nothing says she did and in fact some things support her not knowing Zhaitan’s place of sleep.

And no, Sea of Sorrows doesn’t hint at when or where Livia got the scepter. She never even names it iirc.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

BrunoBRS.5178:

why would she be immortal? or evil?

Livia showed signs of a ruthless streak, and that could have increased over time as distance from her mortal lifespan meant she had less and less to lose.

That said, I don’t think she would have become Scarlet even if that were the case.

Livia’s motivations don’t appear to have changed much over time, and those motivations don’t match Scarlet’s actions at all. Even though Livia is probably capable of doing everything Scarlet has done, in my opinion it wouldn’t be a logical development for her character.

Scarlet’s actions have ranged from negative to neutral-at-best for Kryta, and Livia’s goals have always been exactly the opposite of that. I just don’t think Livia as Scarlet makes sense from a character standpoint.

i don’t imagine someone that led the shining blade at one point in life would suddenly launch an attack on the queen and her soldiers.

Am I missing something? As far as I know, Glint didn’t move the Scepter of Orr, she wasn’t even physically present. After the sinking of Orr, the staff ended up in an ancient crypt in Majesty’s Rest from Orr, to me it seems like the staff has qualities that prevent it’s destruction, causing it to warp elsewhere instead. The Staff of the Mists had to be destroyed in a specific place, now, wouldn’t it make sense if it would have warped as well if someone had attempted to destroy it elsewhere?

Tuomir.1830:

Am I missing something? As far as I know, Glint didn’t move the Scepter of Orr, she wasn’t even physically present.

Ahem…