Guild Wars 2

Can someone answer me on why rytlocks holds onto this and doesnt give it to queens jenna so she can enter ascalon with it and put all those foefire ghosts to rest, its hurting my brain, is rytlock an absolute moron, not only that eir had broken the counter part Magdaer and sent it off to be reforged, so why not end it once and far all, rytlocks people are dieing and he’s sat there behind his pretty little desk holding onto his pretty sword that he doesnt even use, he doesnt deserve to be a leader in my eyes :C

Because this is only legend.

you mean youre fighting ghost over and over and you know of a very small chance to permanantly stop the fight while at the same time putting all those poor souls to rest you wouldnt even try it?

The treaty is still young and in development. Its not just Rythlock being a petty person, its the concept of the last of the royal bloodline walking into the heart of Charr territory, right into the deadly catacombs of Ascalon, with or without a charr bodyguard detachment, i dont know which would feel more suspicious, along with her retinue, to solve a problem of the charr that would free up a front of the charr.

Its not that it will never happen, its rather human political sense. Why do it right now, when you can freely offer this chance to help later in return for something more valuable?

I may be wrong but why Queen Jennah? Her bloodline has no connection to Ascalon or King Adelbern. Kryta and Ascalon humans have a frosty relationship at best and i don’t see a Krytan Monarch being the reason they are put to rest.

As i said i may be wrong lol

Firstly, it is mere human legend that the sword in the hands of a “rightful” Ascalonian king can sooth the ghosts. Charr don’t believe in such human magical nonesense.

Secondly, it has to be a “rightful Ascslonian king” or some such. Jennah, I would hardly call to be rightful to the Ascalonian throne. Her claim pretty much goes back to the first king of Orr – King Doric. And the first king of Kryta, Mazdak, more or less gave up all rights to the Orrian throne, thus by extension, to the Ascalonian throne. Wade Samuelsson is far more likely.

Third, Eir didn’t break Magdaer.

Fourth, gameplay reasons. If that were to happen and the legend true, then you’d have to get rid of all ghosts. That’s a lot of ambient enemies, hearts, events, and dialogue text to remove from the game. And quite a bit of personal story steps, depending on how it is done.

Fifthly, his people are hardly dying just because of him. And the charr on a whole seem far more content to remove the ghost problem themselves. If the charr truly were dying off then Smodur or Bangar would order Rytlock to relinquish his sword. And he does use the sword.

Finally, given the reaction Adelbern had in the dungeon, the legend is likely only half true. I’d argue that it must be Adelbern who accepts the wielded as the rightful king… Which won’t happen while charr rule Ascalon.

Are there any in-game sources that mention that legend? For all we know, it may be some niche belief that the charr brass has never even heard of.

I believe the reason why Rytlock holds on to it is explained in depth in the second book, when Logan and Rytlock meet.

The book makes it perfectly clear that Rytlock has no intention of giving it up, but nowhere does it say why.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Are there any in-game sources that mention that legend? For all we know, it may be some niche belief that the charr brass has never even heard of.

Never said in game. It’s only known from The Ecology of the Charr and/or The Movement from the World (both being in-universe documents, at least one being owned by the Priory).

So it could have been excluded out under the pretense of the other “errors” in The Movement of the World – the text got edited and re-edited by Priory scholars several times, dilluting the worth. Plus it was made by a modern scholar thus fallible.

As Konig said, it’s the game itself making it impractical to let it happen, unless we get a major expansion that moves the timeline forward. It would have to be something WoW-style, with new servers offering a game version where it is possible to change all those hearts, or it is done with instances. GW Beyond found a solution where areas changed if certain quests were active, but the game mechanics were different, the whole game was instanced. And there is currently no expansion announced for GW2.

From an ingame point of view it is way too risky for Jennah, who got no heir, to move into ghost-infested Charr lands to try to find out if a myth is true. And she gains nothing from it, politically. It serves Kryta better to wait for the right time (if ever) and to let the Charr have to deal with another enemy. And Samuellson, while accepting Jennah as his overlord, is most likely not in the mood to give it a try and help the Charr this way.

I’ve said so before, to me it always felt like this is an incomplete storyline element back from the days of GW1, the question if someone from the line of Duke Barradin or King Adelbern is still alive. I had always waited for it to be answered, but it seems like the question does not arise in GW2, as we got Samuellson, or he is meant to be the answer to it.

Still, there is this one line from Agent Ihan, saying “perhaps not” when it is said that Jennah is the last of the royal line of Kryta.

It feels like Rytlock got the sword for a reason, but i do hope that he is not meant to be the “rightful king of Ascalon”, Sohothin does not belong into the hands of a Charr. But he won’t give up on it, unless ordered by his emperor, which seems to be unlikely. Given how the lore was changed for the sake of making the Charr a playable species i doubt that Jennah would demand the sword back. But Magdaer will eventually be reforged and be given to Logan. Not sure we will see this happen ingame, so the Charr are stuck with their self-made ghost problem.

Of course the “rightful king of Ascalon” might turn out to be Mad King Thorn obtaining Magdaer for himself and taking over Ascalon as a villain.

Frosch.7809:

Not sure we will see this happen ingame, so the Charr are stuck with their self-made ghost problem.

Ghostbore technology, invented by player in Iron Legion storyline. Given ultimate success of weapon tests and current rates of charr industrialization, ghost problem will be solved in few years without any legends and flashy swords.

Rednik.3809:

Frosch.7809:

Not sure we will see this happen ingame, so the Charr are stuck with their self-made ghost problem.

Ghostbore technology, invented by player in Iron Legion storyline. Given ultimate success of weapon tests and current rates of charr industrialization, ghost problem will be solved in few years without any legends and flashy swords.

i wouldnt say ‘solved’ more ‘kept in check’ though the ghostbore tech is very useful against ghosts, it doesnt outright destroy it, unless i missed a heart story somewhere, they still reform, just takes longer than normally

RedCobra.7693:

Can someone answer me on why rytlocks holds onto this and doesnt give it to queens jenna so she can enter ascalon with it and put all those foefire ghosts to rest, its hurting my brain, is rytlock an absolute moron, not only that eir had broken the counter part Magdaer and sent it off to be reforged, so why not end it once and far all, rytlocks people are dieing and he’s sat there behind his pretty little desk holding onto his pretty sword that he doesnt even use, he doesnt deserve to be a leader in my eyes :C

Rylock hates Queen Jenna it is because of her that an elder dragon is still alive. Why should Rylock have to give up a legendary weapon to humans who he generally hates Logan being a very rare exception.

Another reason, and this is purely speculation on my part but…
The Charr higher ups don’t WANT to lose the Ghosts of Ascalon. Think about it: Charr society is built around their warmachine, and the Ghosts of the Foe Fire provide an endless enemy for them to focus their rage at since the Flame Legion, and heck, even all the Dragons can be killed off. And then what will the Charr have? No choice but to start attacking other Tyrian nations, and if they fight one, they might have to fight ALL.
On the flipside, if Charr have true, lasting peace, their society may start to fall apart at its foundations. A generation born of peace will reject old Charr ideals and the systems become plagued with internal rebellion, and everything comes apart.

Also, the better question is why Rytlock uses a one handed sword with no offhand weapon.

The sword one hits everything but destroyers what else does he really need.

@Elric, since I just played the Iron Legion storyline, I can tell you that the Charr do not feel that way. The flame yes, since they tried to sabotage the construction of the Ghostbore musket technology. If the ghosts are gone, that gives more time to focus resources on the Flame Legion, instead of endlessly fighting ghosts.
The Charr may seem like their only goal is to kill and conquer, but that’s just the way of life they’ve had since coming into conflict with the humans. Everything so far has just been a fight to keep their rightful land, (I’ll have to look up why they invaded Norn areas initially, but I’m going to guess it was a vindication to eradicate the humans once and for all).

Mystic Starfish.2586:

Everything so far has just been a fight to keep their rightful land, (I’ll have to look up why they invaded Norn areas initially, but I’m going to guess it was a vindication to eradicate the humans once and for all).

What the Charr saw as their rightful land, that is. After a thousand years Ascalon was human land, just like it is Charr land again at times of GW2.

In EotN you help Jora retake her ancestral land back from the Charr, and there was no human around when they attacked it. It was their drive for conquest that made them go there, not action from humans.

Weren’t those Flame Legion charr also?

Shaman caste, but the distinction is a fine one.

EDIT: And that bit about there being no humans is not necessarily true. There’s another quest that implies that charr encroachment into the Shiverpeaks is due to the discovery that the Ebon Vanguard is operating out of norn territory.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

And that bit about there being no humans is not necessarily true. There’s another quest that implies that charr encroachment into the Shiverpeaks is due to the discovery that the Ebon Vanguard is operating out of norn territory.

That quest is the confirmation for the Charr that there are humans operating out of Norn territory, but none of them escapes to get back to tell the tale.

But there is no indication that the Charr who attacked Jora’s homestead did so because they suspected humans being in the Northern Shiverpeaks. They most likely attacked it because neither her nor her brother were around any more, Svanir being on a killing spree and Jora hunting him.

Funny thing is, the Norn call the Charr an “infestation” on their land.

The charr already knew- they had it from Hierophant Burntsoul himself that humans were there. And yes, the other band of charr might have been there for other reasons, but have no reason to believe that they were. The charr at this point were united under Burntsoul; we know that Burntsoul sent charr because he thought there might be humans; we know of no other reason Burntsoul might have sent charr.

Originally the charr invaded the norn long ago – before GW1 – but never put full resources into it so the norn knocked them back time and time again until it became a “you don’t hunt us, we don’t hunt you” scenario.

The charr used that to cross to Kryta during the Charr Invasion of 1070-1071. They then invaded the Far Shiverpeaks due to the Ebon Vanguard – first it was “suspect” then during Eye of the North storyline was “confirmed” (that quest was the first confirmation that didn’t get back, but later it was as we see in the Wintersday quests, the charr return).

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Of course the “rightful king of Ascalon” might turn out to be Mad King Thorn obtaining Magdaer for himself and taking over Ascalon as a villain.

That’s the best Halloween event idea I’ve ever seen.

Interestingly enough, I think I remember reading that some of the haunting stuff this year is happening around Nolani…

^. I would have sworn I saw something about Nolani on facebook right when it was announced, but it seems to have been taken down.

Hmm. Interesting. I had thought it was on the release page, but if it was it doesn’t seem to be there anymore…

Elric.6971:

Also, the better question is why Rytlock uses a one handed sword with no offhand weapon.

He uses a pistol in his offhand.

Is it just me or does WoodenPotatoes make lore videos just by browsing these forums? I say this because he made a video about how Rytlock wields Sohothin. Just a thought!

Maybe, but his video revolves around the unanswered question of where Rytlock got the sword, and only briefly touches on the main topic here, which is the belief that the sword can undo the Foefire.

Getefix.9150:

i wouldnt say ‘solved’ more ‘kept in check’ though the ghostbore tech is very useful against ghosts, it doesnt outright destroy it, unless i missed a heart story somewhere, they still reform, just takes longer than normally

Don’t forget they also have ghost prisons which when combined with the ghostbore tech, do have the possibility of eliminating ghost activity, even if the possibility is there for them to return if the prisons do get destroyed. But that’s true of any type of prison for anybody kept in them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Charr don’t believe in such human magical nonesense.

This magical nonsense wiped their armies out at ascalon (foefire) and is killing them even to this day (ghosts). You would think this made the human legend at least more plausible.

The nonesense is the legend. Not the spell itself. And the legend seems to have been made after the Foefire, since it seems to only be about ending the curse in Ascalon itself.

All I know is that there is something relatively satisfying about the idea of a true ascalonian, Wade Samuelsson perhaps, just taking Adlebern’s own sword and stabbing him through the heart with it and having the spirit die fully, thus ending the curse. Sorry, never really, truly, been a fan of Adlebern.

I seen the woodenpotatoes video too. I dont think hes got a charr toon himself so no wonder hes bias to the humans.
first I woud not give anything to a human. humans are untrusty and Rytlock as a leader cant give any weapon who can hurt back his ppl, mabye not by queen janna but who knows in what hand that sword will get in years or hundreds of year.

Also as someone mention Queen jenna have no reason to help charr as well or even worst, lets say Eir repair the brocken sword and Rytlock give up the sword, for the sake of the argument… and Queen Jenna makes an son. so we are all safe here in every perspective. Then all eyes will be on the queen, whoud she really help the charr?

If not will be clearly be seen by anyone that is malevolent. being able to help but dont want to
If she want to help I’m sure alot of humans if not all will say “wtf O.o”

Plus this is personal, I dont want the charr story to evolve around a stupid sword what Rytlocks have atm, hes just one of the many leaders what charrs got. Mabye is more to findout about the rest of the Leaders… I see no story about them

RedCobra.7693:

Can someone answer me on why rytlocks holds onto this and doesnt give it to queens jenna so she can enter ascalon with it and put all those foefire ghosts to rest, its hurting my brain, is rytlock an absolute moron, not only that eir had broken the counter part Magdaer and sent it off to be reforged, so why not end it once and far all, rytlocks people are dieing and he’s sat there behind his pretty little desk holding onto his pretty sword that he doesnt even use, he doesnt deserve to be a leader in my eyes :C

I read somewhere that it was because of the ghost threat that the 3 legions are united.
They united forces to keep Ascalon from falling from “Charr claws”.

So… if Rytlock ended the curse, the reason why char are getting along will cease to be, therefore the alliance will break and every charr will again mind their own affairs.

In my point of view, that same curse is the reason of charr current success and Rytlock knows it.

Rytlock might be the new Khan-ur or is planning to be… but thats a whole new debate.

Regh.8649:

RedCobra.7693:

Can someone answer me on why rytlocks holds onto this and doesnt give it to queens jenna so she can enter ascalon with it and put all those foefire ghosts to rest, its hurting my brain, is rytlock an absolute moron, not only that eir had broken the counter part Magdaer and sent it off to be reforged, so why not end it once and far all, rytlocks people are dieing and he’s sat there behind his pretty little desk holding onto his pretty sword that he doesnt even use, he doesnt deserve to be a leader in my eyes :C

I read somewhere that it was because of the ghost threat that the 3 legions are united.
They united forces to keep Ascalon from falling from “Charr claws”.

So… if Rytlock ended the curse, the reason why char are getting along will cease to be, therefore the alliance will break and every charr will again mind their own affairs.

In my point of view, that same curse is the reason of charr current success and Rytlock knows it.

Rytlock might be the new Khan-ur or is planning to be… but thats a whole new debate.

seems to me that eventually though the legions will find out about this myth and want to put it to test, its that that worries me, that it hasnt been put to test, just like when that seraph captain wanted jennahs blood, couldnt she just of shown him that it wont work by giving some of her blood i mean seriously, but no instead they brutally slaughter him xD

Regh.8649:

RedCobra.7693:

Can someone answer me on why rytlocks holds onto this and doesnt give it to queens jenna so she can enter ascalon with it and put all those foefire ghosts to rest, its hurting my brain, is rytlock an absolute moron, not only that eir had broken the counter part Magdaer and sent it off to be reforged, so why not end it once and far all, rytlocks people are dieing and he’s sat there behind his pretty little desk holding onto his pretty sword that he doesnt even use, he doesnt deserve to be a leader in my eyes :C

I read somewhere that it was because of the ghost threat that the 3 legions are united.
They united forces to keep Ascalon from falling from “Charr claws”.

So… if Rytlock ended the curse, the reason why char are getting along will cease to be, therefore the alliance will break and every charr will again mind their own affairs.

In my point of view, that same curse is the reason of charr current success and Rytlock knows it.

Rytlock might be the new Khan-ur or is planning to be… but thats a whole new debate.

The Charr with the proper leadership (Khan-ur), whether that’s Rytlock or not, I think Smodur might be a better one, they stick together. The reason they fell apart was because they lost their leader and everyone was kitten ed off and what not. They’re under speaking terms now because of the threat indeed, but they can be united once again IF the story finally starts moving forward again..

Regh.8649:

I read somewhere that it was because of the ghost threat that the 3 legions are united.
They united forces to keep Ascalon from falling from “Charr claws”.

So… if Rytlock ended the curse, the reason why char are getting along will cease to be, therefore the alliance will break and every charr will again mind their own affairs.

In my point of view, that same curse is the reason of charr current success and Rytlock knows it.

Rytlock might be the new Khan-ur or is planning to be… but thats a whole new debate.

The high legions never really united. After the Flame Legion were defeated in the Plains of Golghein (sp?) and the Flame Legion retreated into the Blazeridge Mountains, the three other legions turned on each other. This was a couple decades after the Foefire.

Even now, there’s tension between the Blood Legion and the other two legions. It’s just that they all have shared goals – mainly wiping out the Flame Legion, ghosts, ogres, hatred of humanity, and desire to eliminate the Elder Dragons. Lately though, because of all the threats, two of the three Imperators (Blood being the odd man out) decided to work for peace with humans to reduce the number of threats – especially those on Ascalon (since non-Iron Legion lands, aka non-Ascalon charr territory, doesn’t had the ghosts to deal with).

As to who’d be a Khan-Ur… by tradition, only one of the first (and only true) Khan-Ur’s descendants can be Imperators and, by extension, the Primus Imperator (aka Khan-Ur). Unless Rytlock has a heritage we don’t know about, or he breaks from the old traditions (something Smodur wouldn’t disapprove of by all indications), he cannot be Khan-Ur.

Because the proud Charr’s will never allow the humans to have any kind of power over Ascalonian lands. Even if that power is the power to save their own lands.

Mesket.5728:

Because the proud Charr’s will never allow the humans to have any kind of power over Ascalonian lands. Even if that power is the power to save their own lands.

Actually I used to think that too. But someone proved me wrong on that point. Demonstrating that giving Ebonhawke land was part of their treaty. I think it’s more to do with the fact that both the humans and the charr are going to haveto put an extreme amount of trust in each other. But the treaty between the two is still new. Remember, the humans have no real reason to trust the prophesy either. So testing it means putting their queen in danger for something that might not even work. Or maybe they think it’s in their best interest to allow the charr to keep all their current enemies.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As to who’d be a Khan-Ur… by tradition, only one of the first (and only true) Khan-Ur’s descendants can be Imperators and, by extension, the Primus Imperator (aka Khan-Ur). Unless Rytlock has a heritage we don’t know about, or he breaks from the old traditions (something Smodur wouldn’t disapprove of by all indications), he cannot be Khan-Ur.

We have zero information about Rytlock heritage, but given charr reproductive habits (litters and multiple pregnancies during lifetime) and social traditions (your heritage means almost nothing in terms of career) i don’t think that Khan-Ur blood is rare among charr.

True, but at the same time you have to have more than just heritage. I mean, among the charr military power is the true ruler. For someone among the charr to become Khan Ur they would have to have military might to back them. In fact, if the proper treaty with humanity comes into play, with all of the decisions that Smoldur has been making, plus his owning of the Claw of the Khan Ur, the game seems to be setting him (rather than Rytlock) up for the position. If he could get Ash legion to agree, he might just have the power to bring Blood Legion under his wing. As is, it seems that the only reason that they are “joining” in the treaty effort is because they are trying to avoid a possible two sided battle.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Of course the “rightful king of Ascalon” might turn out to be Mad King Thorn obtaining Magdaer for himself and taking over Ascalon as a villain.

But Mad King Thorn would never put the ghosts to rest. He’d just make them wear bedsheets.

Rednik.3809:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As to who’d be a Khan-Ur… by tradition, only one of the first (and only true) Khan-Ur’s descendants can be Imperators and, by extension, the Primus Imperator (aka Khan-Ur). Unless Rytlock has a heritage we don’t know about, or he breaks from the old traditions (something Smodur wouldn’t disapprove of by all indications), he cannot be Khan-Ur.

We have zero information about Rytlock heritage, but given charr reproductive habits (litters and multiple pregnancies during lifetime) and social traditions (your heritage means almost nothing in terms of career) i don’t think that Khan-Ur blood is rare among charr.

Mind linking the litters bit because I’ve only seen mention of single child births, such as The Legions of the Charr blog post (on gw2w), not litters.

I encounter few mentions about litters ingame from NPC (in clickable dialogues, not voice conversations), but it’s hard to remember exact location. I will try to find them.
Also, usual biological principle, average number of kids = mammary gland number/2

Have you counted the amount of mammary glands on a charr female? I think she might gut you before you finish :P

Well, number 6 was stated by anet even before release.
Also i don’t think that “private counting” is impossible, because of charr VERY social nature and psychology (warband>>>all and guild can be actually perceived as warband).

Fleaman.9864:

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Of course the “rightful king of Ascalon” might turn out to be Mad King Thorn obtaining Magdaer for himself and taking over Ascalon as a villain.

But Mad King Thorn would never put the ghosts to rest. He’d just make them wear bedsheets.

Technically it says they’ll first abandon Ascalon City first so the exact reason they’ll be put to rest is unknown….

Hopefully not by Halloween ending……