Guild Wars 2

I am saying this because it is the only way ANET is going to continue on the storyline in GW3. If we kill all the Elder Dragon’s in GW2, who else is going to be a threat to Tyria? Naturally, Glint's Egg is going to be the next villain in Guild Wars storyline.

Another thing is, Guild Wars storyline is based on bad things happening. From Guild Wars 1 to 2 to HoT, how many bad things have happened so far? only 2 good things happened so far, as both are short lived. The next thing to happen after the good things are VERY BAD things. So, don’t count on your egg to be a good thing, because it may turn out to be Mega Bad egg in the end.

What I think is that glint’s egg will hatch and make an ally dragon , and in the future the dragon will sacrifice itself to kill another Eld Drag

If there even will be a Guild Wars 3. Besides, wouldn’t folks have said the same thing after killing a god? “What could be a threat to Tyria now that we’ve killed gods?” Answer: things that rival gods. So “What could be a threat to Tyria now that we’ve killed things that rival gods?” Answer: Things that rival things that rival gods.

Or with a time leap, and new characters involved, we go down a bit. Start from scratch.

And come on, that plot would be pathetically obvious and even more pathetically cliche… -sigh- but so was Eir’s death and sylvari being dragon minions…

Glint’s egg will go into hibernation soon after hatching. Then next threat will be an attempt on it’s life.

I won`t say Glint is evil.
I will just say we shouldn`t trust Glint.

We know that she is a chrystaline like dragon, who was corrupted by Krakatorik.
We know that she is prophetic, that she can see or predict parts of the future.
We know she has offsprings.
We know that she was the writer of the flameseekers prophecies , which doomed the Mursaat.
We know she was cleansed by the forgotten.
We know she has plans in motions concering the eldar dragons.
What we don`t know is: her true goal

Glint is a puppetmaster , she lived for hundreds of years and influenced the world on several occasions.
She also is/was the last of her kind (we know about her ofsprings, but no other adult at this point.)
Which could mean that her race has been consumed, when she was under ED influence.
She is basicaly the mother of her race.

This, alongside the fact that she was corrupted by Kalkratorik, gives her enough reason to seek revenge on them.

It gives her no reason to see us as nothing more than tools for her plans.

She lived a long life and had enough time to see how the world evolves. She also set several plans in motions over time.
She even started religions to follow her teachings (Brotherhood of the Dragon, Zephirites and the Exalted at the moment)
All who are following her, but none of them telling us her goal .
Just that we should trust her.
All we know right now, is that she wants the ED Power and that she or her race is capable of becoming an ED.
However ED power corrupts . The power is dangerous and even if she isn`t consumed by it there is the thing with her race being dead.
Why didn`t she tell us or anyone the reason of why the ED exist? Did she not know?
What reason does she have to protect us?

Because we helped her?
The whole Exalted are willing to sacrifice everything for Glints vision.
They allready sacrificed their mortal body and everything they possessed.
They are living magic container and EDs consume magic.
Who says that the vision doesnt see them as a jumpstart for her/her offsprings.

Does she really see us first and not her family and race?
Does she want to become a ED that is on our side?

If she needed an army, why didnt she use the powerful Mursaat?
She needs an army.
She knows them. They are no army. No soldiers. They are rats who rather leave the boat, instad of going down fighting.
Mortals, who have to fight for their life and have a limtied lifespan are much easier to control in that regard.

She is dead
Yes. She fell thanks to the power of love.
It is said she is good at predicting things, but not that she is perfect at it.
However, she lived a long life and thought of a legacy.
A plan B (or maybe even plan C?).
Nevertheless, she has several plans in motion.
Some who will take care of her children.

So yeah. Her plans are of use for us at the moment (or we for her).
However we don`t know which role we will play, if everything is said and done.

I really hope Glimmer isn’t evil. As a GW1 player, I dearly want a heartfelt Glint legacy here in GW2.

I named Glint’s 2nd baby Glimmer: it is visually sparklie and starts with G. Her first baby was Gleam. Keeping the family tradition alive.

Where the heck is Gleam proper (not the NPC in Dry Top)? No evidence of its continued existence…yet. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gleam_

~Milly

I think that Glint’s child will be good Elder Dragon. He will be new regulator of magic in Tyria, but he will not kill everything. He will bring balance to the magic.

Jaken.6801:

She even started religions to follow her teachings (Brotherhood of the Dragon, Zephirites and the Exalted at the moment)
All who are following her, but none of them telling us her goal .
Just that we should trust her.

Brotherhood of the Dragon is not a religion. They explicitly state this in GW1, in Prophecies no less.

Jaken.6801:

They are living magic container and EDs consume magic.

The Exalted are immune to corruption. The only way dragon minions can defeat Exalted – because their magic cannot be corrupted – is by tearing off their masks. This is why Mordremoth created the Vinetooths: to hunt down and kill Exalted by tearing off their masks.

If you don’t believe me, go to the Fallen Masks adventure area and talk to the generically-named Exalted Bastion just inside. He explains the entire death situation of Exalted.

Jaken.6801:

If she needed an army, why didnt she use the powerful Mursaat?
She needs an army.
She knows them. They are no army. No soldiers. They are rats who rather leave the boat, instad of going down fighting.
Mortals, who have to fight for their life and have a limtied lifespan are much easier to control in that regard.

Why would the selfish mursaat race assist Glint in the least?

Jaken.6801:

She is dead
Yes. She fell thanks to the power of love.
It is said she is good at predicting things, but not that she is perfect at it.
However, she lived a long life and thought of a legacy.

She foresaw her death, as told to us by the Exalted. If she foresaw it, then she could have worked to prevent it.

She didn’t. Why?

Religion
I shouldn`t have used that word so easily.
I think a better word would be followers.

Exalted
So? They are described roughly as magic gatherer.
They aren`t dragion minions.
However they gather magic.
They store magic.

I just stated the fact that EDs consume magic. They are basicly a walking feast for them.
Their protection is against other EDs, not against Glint and her offspring, who deviced that magic protection.

Why would you want your army/foodsource be easily taken from the enemy?

Mursaat
Okay, I need to step back here a bit.
When she was cleansed, it was by the forgotten.
The EDs went into their sleep.
Glint had a lot of time to look at the world and plan.
The Mursaat were just a contender. However Glint is just a puppetmaster.
The Mursaat were just too selfish.
Humans and other races would be the better choice.
With the flameseekers prophecies she took care of that and even did something for the forgotten at the same time.
Now Humans and the other races were free to develope themselves into what they are today.

Her dead
We take all her words for granted.
However this is only under the assumption that she only had one plan to beginn with.

Why would she tell the Exalted that she would live, if they are plan B. the plan which is set into motion, when she dies.
Even if she survived, she could have appeared and set things right for herself.

She had enough time to formulate plans. Even additional plans if things fail.

The fight with Kalkratorik could have been won by her, if everything would have played out.
However it was never said that she can see everything in the future.

The thing is: She is dead and we can`t ask her what her goal is
We only get snippets. Things that align with our goal.
However we don`t know what her goal is.

She could be the nice dragon who wants the mortal races to live and don`t experience what she did.

She could also be someone who wants revenge and revive her race.

She could also be someone in between.

Additional thing: Glint Revenant
The Glint we have as a revenant doesn`t have to be the Glint who met her end.
She could be a Glint from anywehere in time.
She could be a Glint who didn`t completed her plan.
A Glint who wasn`t was bitter and maybe even want`s to stop her future self.

Now while that part is cliché, i know, it is still soemthing that would work for a additional story.

I mean, we are now following Glints Legacy. Our goal shifted to her, from the eldar dragons at the moment.
She is one of the oldest characters in the series and we know only bits and pieces of her.

Again, it is a possibility, simply based on the fact that everyone we ever encounter, either doesn`t tell us enough or only knows pieces of her puzzle.

Jaken.6801:

Exalted
So? They are described roughly as magic gatherer.
They aren`t dragion minions.
However they gather magic.
They store magic.

I just stated the fact that EDs consume magic. They are basicly a walking feast for them.
Their protection is against other EDs, not against Glint and her offspring, who deviced that magic protection.

Why would you want your army/foodsource be easily taken from the enemy?

Because the Exalted cannot be consumed by the Elder Dragons.

This isn’t unique either. Remember Arah’s forgotten path? There are objects – magical objects – created by the Forgotten which could not be harmed nor consumed nor corrupted by the risen.

Forgotten magic is immune to corruption – even to a stronger point than sylvari – and the Exalted are Forgotten magic.

That is why it is “so”. The Exalted are the one and only group in all of Tyria who cannot be made into a tool by any Elder Dragon, and they’re nigh immortal to boot. They are the best soldiers to ever fight the Elder Dragons.

Jaken.6801:

Mursaat
Okay, I need to step back here a bit.
When she was cleansed, it was by the forgotten.
The EDs went into their sleep.
Glint had a lot of time to look at the world and plan.
The Mursaat were just a contender. However Glint is just a puppetmaster.
The Mursaat were just too selfish.
Humans and other races would be the better choice.
With the flameseekers prophecies she took care of that and even did something for the forgotten at the same time.
Now Humans and the other races were free to develope themselves into what they are today.

Your broken fragmented thoughts here are really hard to decipher what you’re talking about…

Jaken.6801:

The fight with Kalkratorik could have been won by her, if everything would have played out.
However it was never said that she can see everything in the future.

You would not be saying this if you read Edge of Destiny.

If “everything would have played out” then Glint would still be dead. The reason why the plan failed was because Logan left – and there was nothing Logan could do to save Glint. Nothing any of Destiny’s Edge could do.

If Glint intended to survive that battle, she would have kept some of her own defenses. But there were no Forgotten, no Exalted, no nothing there. She was there, alone, not even the Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders from GW1 were present.

She ensured she would die. But with minimal sacrifices to her own ‘assets’ (to put it darkly).

She did not ensure Kralkatorrik would live – Logan leaving caused that, and Glint warned them beforehand that they would succeed if and only if they all remained and worked together.

Jaken.6801:

However we don`t know what her goal is.

She could be the nice dragon who wants the mortal races to live and don`t experience what she did.

She could also be someone who wants revenge and revive her race.

She could also be someone in between.

Never disagreed with this.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that she went out of her way to make herself vulnerable.

Jaken.6801:

I won`t say Glint is evil.
I will just say we shouldn`t trust Glint.

We know that she is a chrystaline like dragon, who was corrupted by Krakatorik.
We know that she is prophetic, that she can see or predict parts of the future.
We know she has offsprings.
We know that she was the writer of the flameseekers prophecies , which doomed the Mursaat.
We know she was cleansed by the forgotten.
We know she has plans in motions concering the eldar dragons.
What we don`t know is: her true goal

Glint is a puppetmaster , she lived for hundreds of years and influenced the world on several occasions.
She also is/was the last of her kind (we know about her ofsprings, but no other adult at this point.)
Which could mean that her race has been consumed, when she was under ED influence.
She is basicaly the mother of her race.

This, alongside the fact that she was corrupted by Kalkratorik, gives her enough reason to seek revenge on them.

It gives her no reason to see us as nothing more than tools for her plans.

She lived a long life and had enough time to see how the world evolves. She also set several plans in motions over time.
She even started religions to follow her teachings (Brotherhood of the Dragon, Zephirites and the Exalted at the moment)
All who are following her, but none of them telling us her goal .
Just that we should trust her.
All we know right now, is that she wants the ED Power and that she or her race is capable of becoming an ED.
However ED power corrupts . The power is dangerous and even if she isn`t consumed by it there is the thing with her race being dead.
Why didn`t she tell us or anyone the reason of why the ED exist? Did she not know?
What reason does she have to protect us?

Because we helped her?
The whole Exalted are willing to sacrifice everything for Glints vision.
They allready sacrificed their mortal body and everything they possessed.
They are living magic container and EDs consume magic.
Who says that the vision doesnt see them as a jumpstart for her/her offsprings.

Does she really see us first and not her family and race?
Does she want to become a ED that is on our side?

If she needed an army, why didnt she use the powerful Mursaat?
She needs an army.
She knows them. They are no army. No soldiers. They are rats who rather leave the boat, instad of going down fighting.
Mortals, who have to fight for their life and have a limtied lifespan are much easier to control in that regard.

She is dead
Yes. She fell thanks to the power of love.
It is said she is good at predicting things, but not that she is perfect at it.
However, she lived a long life and thought of a legacy.
A plan B (or maybe even plan C?).
Nevertheless, she has several plans in motion.
Some who will take care of her children.

So yeah. Her plans are of use for us at the moment (or we for her).
However we don`t know which role we will play, if everything is said and done.

+1 as you really got me thinking

Cin.9386:

I think that Glint’s child will be good Elder Dragon. He will be new regulator of magic in Tyria, but he will not kill everything. He will bring balance to the magic.

There is no record of any elder dragon being beneficent. Why should the next one?

DarcShriek.5829:

Cin.9386:

I think that Glint’s child will be good Elder Dragon. He will be new regulator of magic in Tyria, but he will not kill everything. He will bring balance to the magic.

There is no record of any elder dragon being beneficent. Why should the next one?

There is also no precedent for a new creature becoming an Elder Dragon so it is completely unknown territory regardless.

Well, Ogden said that Glint could be ED if she only had more time.

@Konig

Exalted
Yes, that is the beauty of it.
I never talked about how the Exalted should be corrupted.
They are allready willing to do everything for Glints prophecy. That naturally means if he prophecy says sacrifice yourself for me, then it seems like they would do it.
While they still have their free will, they seem still be able to be influenced. We don`t know everything they know.
By all means, they could be the army to fight against EDs, be the army for the new ED infused child or its foodsource for a kickstart.

I mean, Glint was the one who performed or deviced the ritual, as she got in from the forgotten. Do you think she has no way of dispelling, or getting around that spell? She had a long time to learn.

Furthermore it would be the perfect defense. We know that ED could corrupt each others minions under the right circumstances.
The exalted would be working like a mercenary force, if we get any Glint offspring ED minions.

Just ebcause they would be the perfect soldiers to fight the ED, doesnt mean they couldnt be used for something else. In that case they are like very other weapon.

Murssat
I have to admit, this was just a thought on the side, so please excuse my randomness before.

Glint lived several hundred years uncorrupted. She had a lot of time to look at the world and analyse her ressources for the next ED rising.
The Mursaat would have been one of these powerfull assets at her disposal. Since she is playing the role of a puppetmaster, someone who influences people from afar, she might have been able to take advantage of them.
However we know how the Mursaat are. They are backstabbers and rather save themselves, then others.
I think Glint thought the same and put her eyes more on other races. Her prophetic ability alowed her to deal with the Mursaat along the way. The Flameseekers prophecy.
The Mursaat came back with their own goals and in letting them know of the prophecy, she ensured their doom and also freed the krytan humans.
We dont know how far the Mursaat would have gone, since all we knew, was that their goal was to stop the prophecy. However doubt they would have let go of their control of the human race.
The fact that she did in some way helped with the revenge of the forgotten, is a nice bonus.

Nevertheless. The humans were now free to develope themselves and unite better (more or less, but that is free will for you), without the Mursaat putting an additional strain on the races intern workings (The Mursaat also took control from the shadows, leaving the humans mostly in the dark)

Again, just a possibility.

Her dead
Well, if Plan A was the plan she thought would be the one with the highest sucessrate, it would make sense.
Then making herself vulnerable for the opening would be the way to go. Furthermore if she had other Plans in the background, that would ensure the further safety of race for example.
She might have seen herself as a piece in her greater puzzle.
I mean, if she had succeded, she would have a win win scenario.
Even if she died, other things were already in motion.
Though you are right. She could have used more assets , however I am unsure if she still had acess to them.
We dont really know what happened to all of them and she said that several adventures tried to slay her, if I am not mistaken.

Also, it could be writers oversight. I dont know.

Also, her vision might have seen her die and the others survive. So that would still make sense in a twisted way.
Going down, but keeping the rest alive.

However we are talkign about plans of a dead one. A dead one who was playing several chessgames at once.
Who really knows what her play was.

DarcShriek.5829:

Cin.9386:

I think that Glint’s child will be good Elder Dragon. He will be new regulator of magic in Tyria, but he will not kill everything. He will bring balance to the magic.

There is no record of any elder dragon being beneficent. Why should the next one?

Six is not a good sample size for empirical arguments.

Jaken.6801:

I mean, Glint was the one who performed or deviced the ritual, as she got in from the forgotten. Do you think she has no way of dispelling, or getting around that spell? She had a long time to learn.

Glint didn’t perform any ritual.

The Forgotten performed the ritual to make the Exalted.

Jaken.6801:

Just ebcause they would be the perfect soldiers to fight the ED, doesnt mean they couldnt be used for something else. In that case they are like very other weapon.

You ignored the main point of my statement.

They cannot be corrupted. This has been your entire standpoint – that they can be consumed. But to corrupt, the Elder Dragons must first consume.

Jaken.6801:

Though you are right. She could have used more assets , however I am unsure if she still had acess to them.
We dont really know what happened to all of them and she said that several adventures tried to slay her, if I am not mistaken.

Also, it could be writers oversight. I dont know.

She clearly had the Exalted, if nothing else, available to her. The Zephyrites as well. But she kept them away, to protect her children instead.

No doubt she could have created more Crystal Guardians – which are akin to the sylvari in that they are dragon minions by all intent.

As for those trying to slay her – that was the GW1 characters. Probably in reference to the bonus mission, though I suspect that there was an intended Beyond arc that never got to because silly ArenaNet cut production from the Live Team.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

DarcShriek.5829:

Cin.9386:

I think that Glint’s child will be good Elder Dragon. He will be new regulator of magic in Tyria, but he will not kill everything. He will bring balance to the magic.

There is no record of any elder dragon being beneficent. Why should the next one?

Six is not a good sample size for empirical arguments.

Jaken.6801:

I mean, Glint was the one who performed or deviced the ritual, as she got in from the forgotten. Do you think she has no way of dispelling, or getting around that spell? She had a long time to learn.

Glint didn’t perform any ritual.

The Forgotten performed the ritual to make the Exalted.

Jaken.6801:

Just ebcause they would be the perfect soldiers to fight the ED, doesnt mean they couldnt be used for something else. In that case they are like very other weapon.

You ignored the main point of my statement.

They cannot be corrupted. This has been your entire standpoint – that they can be consumed. But to corrupt, the Elder Dragons must first consume.

Jaken.6801:

Though you are right. She could have used more assets , however I am unsure if she still had acess to them.
We dont really know what happened to all of them and she said that several adventures tried to slay her, if I am not mistaken.

Also, it could be writers oversight. I dont know.

She clearly had the Exalted, if nothing else, available to her. The Zephyrites as well. But she kept them away, to protect her children instead.

No doubt she could have created more Crystal Guardians – which are akin to the sylvari in that they are dragon minions by all intent.

As for those trying to slay her – that was the GW1 characters. Probably in reference to the bonus mission, though I suspect that there was an intended Beyond arc that never got to because silly ArenaNet cut production from the Live Team.

I’d say 100% is a pretty good sample size. Name one we missed. Six is perfectly fine for the size of the total population. It’s basic statistics. If you think the sample size is significantly larger please show us your evidence.

Let’s say you flip a coin six times. And all six times it comes up heads.

Does this mean if you flip the coin more, that it will always come up heads?

No.

“It’s basic statistics.” As you say.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Let’s say you flip a coin six times. And all six times it comes up heads.

Does this mean if you flip the coin more, that it will always come up heads?

No.

“It’s basic statistics.” As you say.

This is not the same as flipping a coin. Your presumption that evil or good is an independent random event. You have no evidence to support it. You don’t even have evidence support that other elder dragons exist.

Your analogy fails on so many levels and just demonstrates you really don’t understand statistics.

The irony of this conversation it’s occurring while I prepare a Chi-squared test of a slot game that played 35 million games over the weekend. Please don’t even think of lecturing about random numbers.

Actually, I presume that being evil or good is independent of being an Elder Dragon. However, you presume that being evil required for being an Elder Dragon.

We know that beings can become Elder Dragons – just as we know that beings can replace the Six Gods. Who’s to say that, jst like the Six Gods, there has not been a system of replacement amongst the Elder Dragons?

We know that it is possible, so why do you deny all probability of such an event?

Does the fact that Dhuum and Abaddon were evil dictate that 1 out of every 6 gods will be evil at a time? No.

You cannot apply statistics to such small numbers, because they are too small of a sample size. The fact of the matter isn’t that it isn’t ‘random numbers’ or ‘statistics’ but experimentation. When you go into an experiment to find out the result of doing something, you have to repeat the experiment over until you have a sufficiently large sample size. Often you’d even have a control group.

With my coin flipping example, the point wasn’t to argue that it’s an independent random event, but that you can get the same result multiple times without it being the only result.

You ask if we have any evidence to support that other Elder Dragons exist. We don’t, but we do have evidence to support that other Elder Dragons can exist.

You ask if we have any evidence to support the existence of good Elder Dragons. We don’t, but we do have evidence to support that there are benevolent beings with power equal or greater to Elder Dragons in existence.

So to argue that “there can never be a good Elder Dragon” is foolhardy, because until ArenaNet comes in to write that, it isn’t true. This is a fictional piece of work and as such the outcome is what the writers decide. Even if it makes no sense and is a complete retcon of previous evidence. >.>

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Even if it makes no sense and is a complete retcon of previous evidence. >.>

. . .

The Searing was an inside job!

(runs away)

Exalted
I dont really know why you want to corrupt the Exalted, it they are allready following Glints legacy.

In case of evil dragon child, they would follow their belief. I mean they sacrificed everything for that cause.
Before any of them realizes that things go wrong, a lot could happen.
They are like the white mantle at this point, except, maybe, a bit nicer?

The Ritual
The forgotten performed the ritual, that is true.
I might have mingled that up with the fact that they created them, based on Glints predictions.
Which in turn puts her in the position of the brain behind the operation.
She made the prediction and the forgotten followed.

As we know of none forgotten left at the moment and Glint being dead, it is kinda hard to see who took charge here.

However I see a possibility of Glint, in her time time with the forgotten, was able to learn from them.

Glints army
What if creating minions would have costed her too much energy, at that cruicial time?
The Exalted followed the prophecy of her dead, not her survival. They could ahve been plan B (protection of her race).

If plan A was the one with the highest possibility to succeed (because it was early in the ED lifecycle, etc. ) in her eyes, but still had the possibility of her dead, that would automaticly plan A, self sacrifice.

In any case, she would weaken Kalkratorik, would secure the Charr and Humans for a while and would gain the trust of more influencal people at the same time.

Every other plan, that would need more time, would give the EDs more time to device countermessures and would have a higher possibility of them to fail as well.

She was ready to put all of herself in that fight.
If she (or the writers at that point, we dont know) knew about her dead. Wouldnt you call the Exalted yourself?
Why would she let herself killed, if she had these assets, if not by willingly holding them back for something else.

Again, we don`t know if her goals are good or bad. Just that we don`t know her endgame and if it is good for us or not.

Jaken.6801:

I dont really know why you want to corrupt the Exalted, it they are allready following Glints legacy.

You were arguing they could be consumed by the Elder Dragons.

But they cannot. This is what I was saying.

You’ve completely changed your statement without any reason given. It’s like you’re going “but I never said that, this is what I said.”

Jaken.6801:

The forgotten performed the ritual, that is true.
I might have mingled that up with the fact that they created them, based on Glints predictions.
Which in turn puts her in the position of the brain behind the operation.
She made the prediction and the forgotten followed.

Given how anti-Elder Dragon the forgotten seem to be, do you really think the Forgotten – who test everyone to ensure they’re worthy of the Forgotten’s magic and/or assistance – would blindly follow Glint without reason?

Jaken.6801:

As we know of none forgotten left at the moment and Glint being dead, it is kinda hard to see who took charge here.

Well, A Study in Gold has The Last Forgotten speak of Glint’s death.

Though it’s a bit odd in that – and another Exalted dialogue – as both speak of Glint’s death happening before the Exalted went into hibernation. Not sure if it’s an oversight (most likely) or if they’re going from the perspective of “Glint’s death was inevitable the moment she foretold it, so it was then that she died” in a more metaphorical means.

Jaken.6801:

What if creating minions would have costed her too much energy, at that cruicial time?

They already existed though…

Exalted
I only said that the offspring or Glint herself would be able to consume them.
I said that would be a perfect way to secure a foodsupply or have an army that only you can use.

You stated yourself that Exalted can be consumed, if their masks are taken.
If they willingly remove them, they could be consumed by their master .

I never said they would be consumed directly, but by lifting the protection upon them.
A protection Glint knows about and might know how to dispell.

Forgotten
It might be the case at first.
Thats why I said Glint would change over time, when I mentioned the Revenant Herald.
She could have become bitter over time and her original goal might have twisted, or her longing for her own needs might have integrated into her plans.

Remember. The forgotten are gone right now.
We don`t know where they are.
We just don`t know any of the goals, of anyone, are in the long run.

I am not talking about Glint being evil. I am talking about the fact that her goals might be similiar to ours or that of the forgotten, but still have her own twist in them.

Even the forgotten might not have been so good for us.

Minions
I am fuzzy on the book, but were the Chrystal Guardians mentioned?
If so, maybe she took them in to strenghten herself.
They could also be just that, minions. Nothing that would really pose a thread against an eldar dragon.

Unfortunatly we dont know why she didnt use them.
I mean, she could have used them in many other ways and still die.
Till they dont appear again (if they even do, with her being dead), we dont know.

Jaken.6801:

You stated yourself that Exalted can be consumed, if their masks are taken.
If they willingly remove them, they could be consumed by their master .

I said that’s the only way they can be killed.

They cannot be consumed at all.

Jaken.6801:

Minions
I am fuzzy on the book, but were the Chrystal Guardians mentioned?
If so, maybe she took them in to strenghten herself.
They could also be just that, minions. Nothing that would really pose a thread against an eldar dragon.

They are not. They’re not present at all. That’s the point.

And Elder Dragons can’t seem to be capable of retaking in their corruption – or if they are, then they are unwilling to even when their life is threatened and they need a power boost.

Which seems strange.

And if there was already a threat posed to Kralkatorrik, even weak minions would prove to be a 3 second distraction. A distraction Destiny’s Edge could have used to ensure Kralkatorrik’s death.

SirDrygan.1823:

If we kill all the Elder Dragon’s in GW2, who else is going to be a threat to Tyria?

Some unknown threat we’ve yet to discover, just as the Elder Dragons once were.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jaken.6801:

You stated yourself that Exalted can be consumed, if their masks are taken.
If they willingly remove them, they could be consumed by their master .

I said that’s the only way they can be killed.

They cannot be consumed at all.

Jaken.6801:

Minions
I am fuzzy on the book, but were the Chrystal Guardians mentioned?
If so, maybe she took them in to strenghten herself.
They could also be just that, minions. Nothing that would really pose a thread against an eldar dragon.

They are not. They’re not present at all. That’s the point.

And Elder Dragons can’t seem to be capable of retaking in their corruption – or if they are, then they are unwilling to even when their life is threatened and they need a power boost.

Which seems strange.

And if there was already a threat posed to Kralkatorrik, even weak minions would prove to be a 3 second distraction. A distraction Destiny’s Edge could have used to ensure Kralkatorrik’s death.

Exalted
Ah, i misread the part with the killing or consumed.
Still, there could be a way to release that protection, or to revert that cleansing.
How that will play out, we will see, though.

Crystal Guardians
Yep. Could be an oversight on the writers part.

I also thought they could have been a good distraction.

They are only there, for the vision we saw. Maybe the Master of Peace destroyed the last ones on his way in?

You are right, that is pretty strange.

If a benevolent elder dragon had ever existed, it would still be alive. There is no record of any direct conflict between elder dragons, so the only way for a dragon to be killed is for all the known races to gather together and kill it. Now tell me, why would an entire continent band together to kill a benevolent dragon?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Actually, I presume that being evil or good is independent of being an Elder Dragon. However, you presume that being evil required for being an Elder Dragon.

We know that beings can become Elder Dragons – just as we know that beings can replace the Six Gods. Who’s to say that, jst like the Six Gods, there has not been a system of replacement amongst the Elder Dragons?

We know that it is possible, so why do you deny all probability of such an event?

Does the fact that Dhuum and Abaddon were evil dictate that 1 out of every 6 gods will be evil at a time? No.

You cannot apply statistics to such small numbers, because they are too small of a sample size. The fact of the matter isn’t that it isn’t ‘random numbers’ or ‘statistics’ but experimentation. When you go into an experiment to find out the result of doing something, you have to repeat the experiment over until you have a sufficiently large sample size. Often you’d even have a control group.

With my coin flipping example, the point wasn’t to argue that it’s an independent random event, but that you can get the same result multiple times without it being the only result.

You ask if we have any evidence to support that other Elder Dragons exist. We don’t, but we do have evidence to support that other Elder Dragons can exist.

You ask if we have any evidence to support the existence of good Elder Dragons. We don’t, but we do have evidence to support that there are benevolent beings with power equal or greater to Elder Dragons in existence.

So to argue that “there can never be a good Elder Dragon” is foolhardy, because until ArenaNet comes in to write that, it isn’t true. This is a fictional piece of work and as such the outcome is what the writers decide. Even if it makes no sense and is a complete retcon of previous evidence. >.>

You have no point here. Your point about the coins is funny. It would lead to the thought that if two people continue to have offspring, eventually a bear may be the result.

Also, you are correct that I believe the natural tendency of elder dragons is malevolent. I think only with intervention could an elder dragon be benevolent. That may be the end result of what is happening with Glint’s egg, but there is nothing to support that position. It could just be that the egg simply absorbs the magic and never hatches. There has been no hint given as to what the end result will be.

(Edit: @Jaken:) Actually, they aren’t even in that ‘vision’ – which isn’t a vision but us going to that place physically.

Those we fight are fractured Facets – which were originally draconic in appearance (being gray ethereal versions of Glint – why they’re crystals in GW2 is anyone’s guess).

Edit:

If a benevolent elder dragon had ever existed, it would still be alive. There is no record of any direct conflict between elder dragons, so the only way for a dragon to be killed is for all the known races to gather together and kill it.

Unless killed by the non-benevolent Elder Dragons, or usurped by one of the current non-benevolent Elder Dragons, in the thousands upon thousands of unrecorded history.

DarcShriek.5829:

Now tell me, why would an entire continent band together to kill a benevolent dragon?

Why did Destiny’s Edge head off to kill Glint?

A misunderstanding.

And no, I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing, unless “the sake of arguing” equates to saying “we don’t have all the facts or possibilities”.

You may be right. But you may also be wrong.

And even if there is no precedence – nothing in the past that shows it is possible – that does not make it impossible. Otherwise we wouldn’t be making advancements in science – where we continuously try to prove what we thought to be impossible because it was never done before to be possible. I mean, two hundred years ago would you think it possible to communicate via visual communication with someone across the globe in real time? No. But was it possible? Yes.

So you’re now comparing a five man group to a army made up of the vast resources of an entire continent’s population.

Also, when did Glint become an elder dragon?

If you’re going to use examples, please use examples that make sense.

Because an entire continent’s population has say when the leaders drive them into war? Because an entire continent’s population wouldn’t possibly be convinced by propaganda?

You give entire populations too much credit.

And I never said Glint became an Elder Dragon. You are, once again, taking my posts way out of proportion to fulfill your own needs.

You should run for president. You’d be as good as making it into a talk show rather than proper politics as Trump is.

Cin.9386:

He will bring balance to the magic.

One thing to be considered with “Glint is evil!” conspiracy theories is that Glint is or has been in alliance with three of the elder races (at least one of which sacrificed itself for the good of the younger races) as well as the human gods, either directly or through the Forgotten. Since the gods brought humans to Tyria, it’s unlikely that a plan on Glint’s part that is bad for humanity would be compatible with this alliance (other races may not be so lucky, but see below). It’s possible that Glint has fooled all those, but it has to be considered in that context.

From my viewpoint… you can never prove a negative, but I think the evidence for the affirmative is unconvincing. The basis for the claim appears to be a meta-observation that everything we’ve done has created a future Big Bad, but I don’t think this is the case. The restoration of the Krytan monarchy has simply resulted in the politics you sometimes get around a parliament-limited royal court, and for all its problems is certainly better than White Mantle rule. The rise of Usoku is not something we could have realistically done much about, and is more a response to Shiro generally rather than to anything the PCs did. Replacing Abaddon with Kormir doesn’t seem to have resulted in making things worse. The only case I can think of offhand where something we did caused a major problem later down the track is freeing Palawa Joko, who far from being the major antagonist of the next game as has been claimed will happen for Glint’s egg, has thus far played no part in Guild Wars 2 apart from the occasional dialogue reference and preventing Elona from reinforcing Tyria. Certainly, nothing we did in GW1 has created anything on the threat scale of the Elder Dragons, and while the GW1 characters stumbled a few times they overall improved the situation. (Fall of Ascalon? The heroes still bought enough time for significant portions of the population to be evacuated to Kryta and Ebonhawke. Political instability in Kryta? Better than White Mantle rule or Titans having already destroyed the world. Osoku in Cantha? Better than a continent filled with Afflicted, and our actions in Winds of Change may have at least delayed things from getting really bad. Joko? Still better than Nightfall. Eye of the North… delayed Primordus awakening by fifty years, or so we’re told.)

Thus, I find that the meta-argument that we have a pattern of simply making things worse for the future through our actions to fight the enemies of the present don’t hold water. The only solid example is the freeing of Palawa Joko, and we knew that was a case of choosing the lesser evil all along. (You might also include allying with Khilbron against the Mursaat, but we dealt with that in pretty short order.) The main adversary of Guild Wars 2 has been the dragons, and from a narrative perspective they’re a new adversary. Looking towards the future, I’m inclined to think that when the dragons have had their day, there’ll be a new adversary to replace them and whatever hatches out of Glint’s egg will take up the role of prophet and magic regulator rather than being an adversary. Because really, by the time we’ve gone through the remaining four, I think we’ll be looking for something different (and probably Guild Wars 3, because let’s face it, we’re probably looking at years and GW2 has already had more time post-release as ArenaNet’s primary focus than GW1, which only lasted about two years before work started on GW2 and GW1 went into caretaker mode).

On the mention of the heroes returning for an attempt to kill Glint in Edge of Destiny: I’ve always considered that to be a reference to the bonus, since I don’t think the bonus was earned by many people who were going through before the release of Factions with full parties of characters that only had the skills that were available at that point in the storyline without doing the Drok’s Run. In order to succeed, you had to come back with skills and knowledge that weren’t available to the heroes at the canonical time of their first audience. The concept of going back as part of the cancelled Beyond storyline is an interesting one, though – it’s possible that they’d planned for Glint to prevent the survival of Ascalon somehow (because she’d foreseen that a charr victory was necessary for the fight against the dragons to succeed) and the heroes found out about it and confronted her.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jaken.6801:

She is dead
Yes. She fell thanks to the power of love.
It is said she is good at predicting things, but not that she is perfect at it.
However, she lived a long life and thought of a legacy.

She foresaw her death, as told to us by the Exalted. If she foresaw it, then she could have worked to prevent it.

She didn’t. Why?

I want to say because it is part of a greater plan. Maybe she did see a future where she didn’t die that ended up far worse.

There’s a great emphasis on ‘empathy’ with Glint, I think it fits her character to choose the greater good over her own life.

draxynnic.3719:

On the mention of the heroes returning for an attempt to kill Glint in Edge of Destiny: I’ve always considered that to be a reference to the bonus, since I don’t think the bonus was earned by many people who were going through before the release of Factions with full parties of characters that only had the skills that were available at that point in the storyline without doing the Drok’s Run. In order to succeed, you had to come back with skills and knowledge that weren’t available to the heroes at the canonical time of their first audience. The concept of going back as part of the cancelled Beyond storyline is an interesting one, though – it’s possible that they’d planned for Glint to prevent the survival of Ascalon somehow (because she’d foreseen that a charr victory was necessary for the fight against the dragons to succeed) and the heroes found out about it and confronted her.

While I would agree at first thought, there is a line that most overlook which makes me think it was a canceled Beyond storyline.

The first line that most focus on is (page 338):
“Three hundred years ago, I welcomed heroes such as yourselves, hailing them as the Chosen who would destroy the titans and save the world. But did they remember? Did not the very heroes I sent return to battle me again?”

But the line I focus on is on the next page (page 340):
“But three hundred years ago, the dragons’ bellies were empty, and their minds were awakening. Three hundred years ago, the sons of men fought me before they understood that I was their ally.”

This line tells us four things:

1. The Elder Dragons were awakening (which we first saw happen in Eye of the North).
2. The ‘sons of men’ (aka humans) knew of the Elder Dragons, if only loosely.
3. The humans fought Glint.
4. The humans knew Glint was tied to the Elder Dragons – for they thought she was their enemy, as Destiny’s Edge did.

When you combine the two and see that both are referred to happening 300 years ago, you get the notion that the ‘sons of men’ in the latter are the heroes from the former.

In other words: after the events of GW1, some humans found out Glint’s ties to the Elder Dragons and attacked her thinking she was fooling them all along, just like those in this thread.

Most likely, these humans are tied to the Order of Whispers, who in The Movement of the World are explicitly stated to have known of the Elder Dragons before anyone else (“The first to discover the awakening of the dragons—in Orr, and elsewhere—the Order was aware that nobody would believe them.”), but given the first sentence are likely to include the Chosen (aka Prophecies heroes).

Which implies the Elona arc, which we knew was to be after Winds of Change, had been written out by the end of Winds of Change, but was canceled from development for 2012 due GW2 hitting final production, and was not restarted due to lack of players in GW1.

Who gives Sylvari their wyld hunt? The pale tree or Mordremoth?

Because Caithe’s wyld hunt was to protect the egg at all costs.

Daharahj.1325:

Who gives Sylvari their wyld hunt? The pale tree or Mordremoth?

Because Caithe’s wyld hunt was to protect the egg at all costs.

Neither. The dream gives them their wyld hunt. Just like the nightmare gives the court their dark hunt.

So could it be that the heroes of GW1 are the founders of the order of wispers or better said the ones who made it a powerful faction in this side of Tyria?

adormtil.1605:

So could it be that the heroes of GW1 are the founders of the order of wispers or better said the ones who made it a powerful faction in this side of Tyria?

No, the OoW was around everywhere, but their main HQ was in Elona, more or less.
They were a very secret group.
With the Elder Dragons rising, they went more into the light and more open, even though they still hid in the shadows.

The Order of Whispers was only in Elona during GW1. The GW1 heroes did not establish it. Though that doesn’t mean they didn’t help them expand into Tyria and, no doubt, Cantha.

Nah, it’s simple for ARENANET. What the player wants, we give them. Later. But we still give them.
Just like they want Treaherne dead, we kill him alright? Just not immediately.
You want Glint’s egg to turn on it’s allies? We will do it because we read the forums and it turns out the creepy pasta’s and conspiracy theories are out in full force! Why not we give them what they want? Just not now. Maybe 2 more expansion down the the road and we sic Glint’s baby on the players and maybe put up one huge cliffhanger where Glint’s baby cornered the players on a cliff and GW2 storyline ends there. Wait 3 years or 7 years later we come out with GW3, where the descendants of those heroes are dealing with a world wide Glint tyranny. Billions are already dead. Humans are now all hole up in Elona with Palawa Joko is giving them refuge. The Sylvari are all dead. :P Mordy’s final dead kill them all. And because ANET hates Sylvari, don’t know why they even bothered with them in the first place. Oh wait, they only wanted them for the storyline plot for Mordy. Oh silly me. The Charr and Asuran’s are stuck in their homelands fending for themselves and whatever races out there are either all wiped out or scattered around the world.
GW3 starts in Elona. :P Make it so!!!!

TL;DR Glint’s baby is EVIL. Heroes got betrayed. GW3 happened.

No. Actually PC is the main villain because s/he killed off all elder dragons and bring chaos to Tyria. Glint’s egg help the remaining survivors to build the new world and it brings us GW3.

Doug Whisper.2465:

No. Actually PC is the main villain because s/he killed off all elder dragons and bring chaos to Tyria. Glint’s egg help the remaining survivors to build the new world and it brings us GW3.

Lol. that would make lots of lore players flipped out….

SirDrygan.1823:

Doug Whisper.2465:

No. Actually PC is the main villain because s/he killed off all elder dragons and bring chaos to Tyria. Glint’s egg help the remaining survivors to build the new world and it brings us GW3.

Lol. that would make lots of lore players flipped out….

Weeeeeell if GW1 is any indication, Anet actually likes having the player ruin everything: Collected a group of chosen that would later be sacrificed, gave the Scepter of Orr to the White Mantle, helped the Lich get the Scepter, helped releasing the Titans, broke the seal that held Palawa Joko and helped a xenophobic institution commit genocide on it’s own people. That’s just off the top of my head.

Did he not fixed all of that?

BuddhaKeks.4857:

SirDrygan.1823:

Doug Whisper.2465:

No. Actually PC is the main villain because s/he killed off all elder dragons and bring chaos to Tyria. Glint’s egg help the remaining survivors to build the new world and it brings us GW3.

Lol. that would make lots of lore players flipped out….

Weeeeeell if GW1 is any indication, Anet actually likes having the player ruin everything: Collected a group of chosen that would later be sacrificed, gave the Scepter of Orr to the White Mantle, helped the Lich get the Scepter, helped releasing the Titans, broke the seal that held Palawa Joko and helped a xenophobic institution commit genocide on it’s own people. That’s just off the top of my head.

Heroes cliche story 101……. You can see it in comics…in movies, in whatever medium that there are heroes that actually was the caused of the situation in the first place……..

SirDrygan.1823:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

SirDrygan.1823:

Doug Whisper.2465:

No. Actually PC is the main villain because s/he killed off all elder dragons and bring chaos to Tyria. Glint’s egg help the remaining survivors to build the new world and it brings us GW3.

Lol. that would make lots of lore players flipped out….

Weeeeeell if GW1 is any indication, Anet actually likes having the player ruin everything: Collected a group of chosen that would later be sacrificed, gave the Scepter of Orr to the White Mantle, helped the Lich get the Scepter, helped releasing the Titans, broke the seal that held Palawa Joko and helped a xenophobic institution commit genocide on it’s own people. That’s just off the top of my head.

Heroes cliche story 101……. You can see it in comics…in movies, in whatever medium that there are heroes that actually was the caused of the situation in the first place……..

Or in real life…
I mean, one of my favourite wisdoms is: Either die a hero, or see yourself become the villian

Luckily, we went further and tried to make things right in the end and that sentence is just one part of a bigger story.

You will always think you do good for someone, till you see the greater picture.
There is a lot restraint needed not to become like he things you fought against, as power does corrupt and only a little bit of it in the wrong hands can result in a great catastrophe.

Overall, a hero for me is no one who is perfect, but someone who rises up, even if he had failed and tries to do things right.
He doesn`t have to be the hero of the masses for that.

As far as Glint’s ‘minions’, the forgotten, who are usually portrayed as her servants, she was actually HER minion, because THEY liberated her for Kralkatorrik. I would argue that she was following the forgotten’s plan more so than making her own. She seemed to have an ability to predict the future, that the forgotten tapped into. Together, Glint and the Forgotten, made the long term plans that are apparently in effect now. But mind you, Tarir was engineered by the Forgotten, NOT GLINT. She’s part of the plan.

Mushroomz.4280:

As far as Glint’s ‘minions’, the forgotten, who are usually portrayed as her servants, she was actually HER minion, because THEY liberated her for Kralkatorrik. I would argue that she was following the forgotten’s plan more so than making her own. She seemed to have an ability to predict the future, that the forgotten tapped into. Together, Glint and the Forgotten, made the long term plans that are apparently in effect now. But mind you, Tarir was engineered by the Forgotten, NOT GLINT. She’s part of the plan.

Urrrrmmm…. I thought the Forgotten /= Exalted