Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Bruno: That hardly looks like a depiction of a dragon. Keep in mind that the grawl, being primitive, will likely have nonsensicle paintings as well.

i know it looks like crap, which is why i said it’s not strong evidence as much as it is suggestive :P

here are some more paintings:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7907/guildwars22012102017373.png

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4539/guildwars22012102017374.png

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4984/guildwars22012102017380.png

like you say, that hardly resembles a dragon, but then again, what’s the most primal form of drawing a snake? hint

as for the jotun discussion, it’s nice to keep in mind that most of the jotun culture and history has been lost, and the jotun themselves are entirely to blame. as far as we know, anything a jotun says about their past is made up.

First off, Thruln says humans arrived over seas and settled on the shore before spreading out to the rest of Tyria. Given that Orr was bordered by the ocean this makes sense. Given that there were Five powerful races in the past, we can’t assume the territory under their control is parallel to today. Juton could have very well had territory stretching closer to Orr, in which they could have interacted with humans much in the way the player does with more primitive species.

Yes, Thruln blames the loss of magic for the inter fighting rather than arrogance, but it very well could have been both. The addition of a magic drought is just more fuel to the fire of the known Juton Wars, not a something exclusively contradictory.

Thrulns notion that humans lived like Grawl could very well have occurred within that five year frame, for a powerful race like the Juton, and emerging people might have very well seemed primitive from the perspective of the Juton, that is until the gods granted them power boosts.

I don’t care how much arena net attempts to deviates from other game franchises, they are prone to lack of subtle like most plots in gaming and they are prone to retconning in favor of driving a story. I just don’t see strong implications to show Thruln is majorly wrong simply because he contradicts human lore and stresses the few tidbits about the gods Arena net has as officially true. Of course this is entirely speculative, so your efforts to somehow notion Thruln as mostly wrong is mostly pointless considering everything related to humans is not 100% indisputable as you’re making it out to be.

BrunoBRS.5178:

as for the jotun discussion, it’s nice to keep in mind that most of the jotun culture and history has been lost, and the jotun themselves are entirely to blame. as far as we know, anything a jotun says about their past is made up.

And that would make a perfect irony trope, denying the caveman for being an ignorant liar when a few scrapes of ancient lore have survived through them.

Bard.7215:

BrunoBRS.5178:

as for the jotun discussion, it’s nice to keep in mind that most of the jotun culture and history has been lost, and the jotun themselves are entirely to blame. as far as we know, anything a jotun says about their past is made up.

And that would make a perfect irony trope, denying the caveman for being an ignorant liar when a few scrapes of ancient lore have survived through them.

i’m not saying they are wrong, just that they are as reliable sources of information as a moa.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m not saying they are wrong, just that they are as reliable sources of information as a moa.

Sure they’ve devolved and most of them have forgotten and almost all of them don’t care. However I don’t believe that every shred of information beyond what we have already been told by them has been lost., otherwise the entire flavor behind their purpose in the grand plot would be meaningless.

Bard, some things Thruln says are true – humans did, as far as we know, arrive on ships and settle on the shore originally. However, his claim that the humans didn’t have the favor of the gods until after they established kingdoms is outright proven to be false.

Take note that I never once said everything Thruln the Lost says is false or lies. I said simply that he’s not a credible source. Everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt until other evidence supplies support. Primarily, the things in question are threefold: 1) Was losing magic tied into the jotun civilization’s fall (if so, how)? 2) Was there an Age of Giants and was the norn really part of this? 3) Was the fall of jotun civilization after or before humanity arrived on continental Tyria?

Given the age of jotun society and history, it’s heavily implied that their fall is older than 1,500 years. In fact, Arah has remnants of jotun magitech that was gathered after their fall – according to the Durmand Priory scholars, it was long abandoned when the gods collected the jotun telescope. Though I haven’t gone through that path in the explorable dungeon in full yet so I cannot say with absolute certainty.

Also, there were more than five powerful races – if you want to get technical, the Giganticus Lupicus were also a powerful race before the ED’s last rise, and after the ED’s last rise the mursaat were not on the world anymore (they fled from the ED using their magic, leaving the world). So post-ED, there were, at first, four sentient races (their strengths and size of society unconfirmed – we don’t even know when the jotun’s grand era began or ended, though the Age of Giants indicate post-ED).

I’d also like to note that other sources outside Thruln the Lost claims that the jotun lost magic because their lorekeepers and magic users were the first targeted in their civil wars. Thus, most of their spellcasters, scholars, and historians disappeared near the beginning of their inter-fighting.

Bard.7215:

Thrulns notion that humans lived like Grawl could very well have occurred within that five year frame

That seems immensely impossible Firstly, Thruln says this: “My jotun ancestors helped them survive.” – this indicates that the humans were flailing about, so to speak, for a long time. That he puts importance on his jotun ancestors in the survival of the human race on continental Tyria. This wouldn’t be implying over five years. Furthermore, given that kindoms were formed so quickly, and even when humans arrived on Cantha they were already organized, it stands to reason that humanity arrived on continental Tyria equally organized.

Either Thruln’s wording implies immense exaggeration, or he’s just simply wrong in that regard. Either way, humans wouldn’t have been “like grawl” – grawl wouldn’t be capable of sea travel across oceans.

Bard.7215:

everything related to humans is not 100% indisputable as you’re making it out to be.

I have never once claimed this. Do not put words into my mouth. I merely stated Thruln’s claims are outright contradicted by dozens of other sources. How you can feasibly believe that one individual who’s knowledge is solely based on oral tradition from an in-lore standpoint is more accurate than these others and, in fact, the developers themselves (see this and this - proof that the Six Gods brought humanity to the world) is beyond me.

Think about it: if the Six Gods brought humanity to the world (links above are two pre-release sources on this, though there are multiple sources in Orr reaffirming this), then how is it possible that the Six Gods did not know of humanity before the establishment of the Tyrian kingdoms?

Bard.7215:

However I don’t believe that every shred of information beyond what we have already been told by them has been lost., otherwise the entire flavor behind their purpose in the grand plot would be meaningless.

No one claimed this.

Bard.7215:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m not saying they are wrong, just that they are as reliable sources of information as a moa.

Sure they’ve devolved and most of them have forgotten and almost all of them don’t care. However I don’t believe that every shred of information beyond what we have already been told by them has been lost., otherwise the entire flavor behind their purpose in the grand plot would be meaningless.

i think it’s the contrary, it adds to it. you don’t know what can and can’t be trusted, you don’t know what is truth and what is pride making up stories. it makes them more… human, like a person covering for a loved one.

they might have retained some of their knowledge, but how much of it is pride exaggerating half truths?

The association between the loss of magic and the warfare would be connected to castes, Thruln says that once his people were mostly story tellers, in addition to other sources talking of magi and other priestly castes. During their “Age of Giant”: when they had magic and magitech it would be likely that the thinkers, the story tellers and the likes, were the higher ups of society(Not so much the leaders, as we know Giantkings were more likely warrior kings). But when magic was removed, so was their power and influence, which would almost evidently lead the more brutal to seize power. It is possible that without the influence of the thinking castes, the Giant Kings resorted to more brutish tactics in a new era where strength was the only medium of power. What better way to start a greedy bide for power when and even playing field has just tipped in balance? Without magic, the thinking caste was weak, and as nature dictated the new era of brutality killed them off and sent the Jotun spiraling down.

For humans living like Grawl, I feel I should have added that the comparison to grawl should not be taken so literally. Grawl are sort of the butt of every primitive joke in the Guild Wars Universe. It is likely that at first glance the Juton percieved the humans as inferior for many reasons, mistakenly believing them to be more primitive than they were, as Juton had Magic and Technology, where as humans came well… relatively primitive in comparison to Juton. this could be more accurately debated if we had some lore sources explaining what the first human settlers were like, what things they caried over through the mist (Under the assumption that the gods brought them with them) as in… what tools they had.. what kind of magic they used.. things like that.

It could be possible that the Juton had underestimated the intelligence of humanity and had unintentionally aided in their advancements. by aid, it’s possible the Juton might have tought humanity a lesson or two about civilization or even held off other races from interfering.

Notice how the Juton don’t specify that these gods are the six gods, they specify a connection but we can not be sure these deities are the same, remember.. these deities have family, demigods and successors. I know there is a lot of lore about Dwyana being the first human deity to show up on tyria but there could have very well been related predecessors, such as Abbadons predecessor. Given that a lot of the earlier deities seem to be pricks(lol Dhuum), they could have very well cared less about humanity, as we aren’t sure if all the deities were responsible for humans or if they were the “project” of a few.

I’ll give an imaginary casinario to help explain.. Lets say humans are a creation of Dywana. She brings along humans and some of the other deities poke fun at her creations, preferring the Juton as worshipers. Then they discover that Dywnas little project produced the better people and all the gods decide to hop on the bandwagon or Balthazaar kills his father who was with the Juton or something like that.

Yes yes, that’s all very plausible – to varying degrees. However, that’s highly stretching the meaning of his words. And my point still stands:

Thruln’s dialogue shows inaccuracies with known confirmed factual lore. Whether this is because he was wrong, he was told wrong, he worded things poorly, or he intentionally lied is up to debate. However, what is known is that at least four gods were favoring humans – three of which since they appeared from the Mists – these four gods being Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, and Lyssa (the first three being from the Mists themselves). Balthazar himself wanted the world for humanity – and won the argument thus since bringing humans to Tyria, humanity had forcifully spread (Balthazar believed the other races would fall easily to humanity). Or so say our more-credible-than-Thruln-but-still-faulty source on Balthazar’s history (to clarify on that: this information comes from the Durmand Priory, done via research on Orrian history and not by oral tradition of ancient long-lost history, however it has shown one false piece of information – though it’s uncertain whether deliberate or accidental by the developers (the source – the Orrian History Scrolls – call the individuals making Lyssa Lys and Issa, however they are Lyss and Ilya).

To reiterate my sole point in all of this:
Thruln is not unfallible, and there is at least one piece of evidence proven wrong by him (whether he knows it or not), and that is that the gods paid no care to humans when they first arrived. As such, other things not supported by other sources may be false (just as they may be truth). Therefore, using that as your sole undeniable evidence for a claim (as you did here ) is fallible.

I reread the entire conversation; I was not using the source as an undeniable claim to base the history of the norn off of. I merely used his equally supported, if not weaker theory on the origin of the norn to that of the Kodans own claims. the Kodan being just as a “reliable” source as Thruln.

Recall that earlier in the thread you outright stated that most of Thrulns information was wrong, or at least you worded it as such to state certainty that thruln was wrong and that this level of fallibility strongly supported him as a completely uncredible source.

My intention was never to pose Thruln as infalliable, but to support the possibility that he is not wrong by revealing certain grey areas in the lore and to revoke assumption that would lead players to ignorantly perceive thruln as beyond reasonable doubt a wrong character. In other words we have widdled out this assertions to reveal the lore based grey area they exist in, the realm of possibilities. Of course in the end there was one such notion for which I am unable to find a field of fallibility in(Unless I can go through the difficult task of finding evidence within the limited lore that consists of early human/god relationships), this being thrulns belief that the gods did not care about humans (Implying they didn’t know about them) which contradicts human arrival).

Yes I have a personal biased in the idea that Juton are related to norn and a biased against the kodan theory, you’ve caught me, but my intention was to revoke the defamation of thruln as being infallibly wrong or at least a completely unreliably source based off peoples certainty/lack of knowledge on juton history. I did not ever intend to posse him as being infallible, I just oppose the notion that he is statistically “too wrong” for any possible theory regarding a Juton norn connection, which from my perspective was your attempt at the beginning of the conversation.

“The relationship between norn and Jotun I believe is stated somewhere in something reguarding the history of Jotun.”

You presented there being a relation between norn and jotun as fact, that’s what I meant.

As to your claim of no fallibility for Thruln’s belief about the gods’ opinion on humans – are you saying that his claim has shown no fallibility, or that him being wrong is infallible? Because if you want to see in-game claims which contradict him, read the Orrian History Scrolls found in Shelter Docks of Malchor’s Leap (eastern edge of the map, near the portal to Straits of Devastation if you didn’t know) which outright state that the gods brought humanity to the world. Or, alternatively, scroll up a few posts of mine and look for the links to two different interviews – one between Ree Soesbee and GuildMag, the other between Jeff Grubb and Kill Ten Rats – which outright states that the Six Gods brought humanity to the world. This is also claimed by a multitude of scholars – some of which going “it was originally believed Tyria was made by the Six Gods, but now we know this is not true, what is true is that humans were brought to the world by the Six Gods” in various forms. Though admittedly some of those scholars are not entirely trustworthy (same level of trustworthiness as Thruln).

I never claimed Thruln was a completely wrong source, by the way – nor, do I think, did Bruno. I merely stated that Thruln – and mind you not Thruln alone – has been proven wrong in multiple fronts of his knowledge (magic causing their downfall; humans not recognized by the Six Gods; and humans arriving like grawl), and as such the remainder of his knowledge should be put in question, rather than Thruln being true where other sources are wrong (I in fact claim the very same thing about the Orrian History Scrolls which, outside being wrong about the true names of Lyssa, has claimed that humans were brought to the world at Arah, which makes no sense considering the timeline – though the Orrian History Scrolls have shown fewer inconsistencies overall, given that they discuss far more than just the Six Gods (they also discuss Kings Doric, Reza, and Zoran, the Third Guild Wars and Orr’s involvement, the relation of Orrians and magic, Malchor, and… I think one other topic)).

Given what we know of the history of Tyria, I am both skeptacle of and finding it likely that the Age of Giants existed – on one hand, we know there were five surviving sentient races from the Elder Dragons, though one fled the world on their own accord (mursaat) and a second were mostly wiped out (seers); however, despite this there were still the dwarves and forgotten – and the forgotten we know were called caretakers of the world. In fact, Thruln’s claim for what the jotun did is exactly what we are told the forgotten did. However, in support of Thruln’s claim, we’re told that ogres are an ancient race as well, though we know little more on this (or rather I haven’t seen such brought up – there’s the racial sympathy which may enlighten it, but everything I’ve seen in the persistent wold only expands on their modern culture). If an Age of Giants existed, then it would have likely included the ogres and the actual giants (the ogres, by the way, were implied to hold historical ties with the jotun by Ree Soesbee in the jotun blog post – I think I mentioned this, actually).

But my main point is this: Three things Thruln claims are known to be false, one thing is known to be right (magic was chaotic during the last reign of the ED), and three are unknown (Age of Giants, jotun/norn alliance, favored by gods). Though while indications of the Age of Giants go 50/50 IMO, and there’s nothing else supporting or denying a co-existence between jotun and norn (outside the biography option calling jotun “ancient enemies”), there’s indications saying that jotun society fell before the Six Gods arrived on Tyria – but no proof, mere indications.

This is what I’ve been getting at.

First and foremost, I admit that my first statement was an accidental assumption on prior information that was passed around that I mistook for coming from a source that isn’t so bogged down in questioning. In fact I didn’t even know Thruln was the source of the information (Because my norn was unable to talk to the NPC when I first noticed he existed)

Notice the vagueness of “something and somewhere”, I don’t even believe I was attempting to state that the norn/Juton relationship was cannon (True to the sense that it had a higher standing than the kodan theory).

I don’t think I stated that thrulns belief about how the gods perceives humans was infallible, I was however trying point out that the facts regarding human history do not contradict his vague statements about the gods themselves. Grawl could be a relative comparison, not a literal one. The Gods that favored them are not necessarily the pantheon we have now. There is workable wiggle room in such a mystery that doesn’t negate the idea that the gods brought humans to tyria.

As for the three things that are wrong (from what I recall, you claimed it was A. Gods not knowing humans B. Humans being as primitive as growl(taken to the most litteral degree) and C. GIant Wars unleashed because of loss of magic)

If you still consider the magic loss = downfall to contradict pride/power =downfall than I urge you to re-read my speculative scenario on the situation. The degree of segregation between the two given run downs of the event is so limited it’s asinine to call them contradictions.

I disagree on the claim that the gods Thruln talks about not being the Six Gods. For two reasons: Firstly, there is only one pantheon that’s old enough to count as what’s Thruln is talking about (yes, Koda, the Great Dwarf, and Mellaggan exist, but they’re just a single deity to the culture and thus are exempt from possibilities), the titans and mursaat both claimed to be gods, but not early enough in history (and the jotun would know the later to not be so). Then there’s the fact that these gods favored the Six Gods – but there is no favored gods outside the Six/Five (depending on timeframe) and mursaat, which again the latter is not the reference. So either Thruln is talking about something that is never hinted at nor implied in any fashion whatsoever, or he’s talking about the Six Gods.

Regarding your speculation – that’s all fine and dandy, except for the fact that we know that the scholars and spellcasters died after the beginning of these wars (or so our sources on the matter claim), however Thruln doesn’t talk about the death of individuals – he talks about the inability to use magic. Magic was taken from them, not lost like the deaths of spellcasters would lead to. This is a case of cause and effect, and Thruln is switching them around from all other sources. And speculation is speculation – and such is pointless when we’re told by historians and blog posts that they lost magic during their in-fighting, not before.

On to the grawl comparison – even if it’s not literal, there’s still a fairly vast difference between the modern grawl and history humans. Grawl are not united, they worship oddly shaped rocks and elementals, they hold less intelligence compared to other races, they have next to no real architecture – and certainly not enough to build boats to ship entire nations worth of people. Even if it’s taken from a figurative sense, calling humans “like grawl” is either a huge insult or falsity.

The overall impression I get from Thruln the Lost is that he’s pandering to the audience, and he comes from a line of Thrulns that have learned to pander to the audience in order to survive.

Even if we take Thruln the Lost’s timescale as given, that’s over a thousand years in which the account could have changed. The testimony of the ancient (and safely dead) Thruln places the blame squarely on the jotun leaders – strictly speaking the two aren’t completely incompatible, but there’s a distinct shift of the focus of the blame. Given that we know the successors of said jotun leaders are prone to violence, which do you think a jotun leader to receive better – a Thruln that tells stories about how the fall of the jotun was the result of the same behaviour that the modern jotun continue to indulge in, or a Thruln who tells stories about how the fall of the jotun wasn’t their fault really, they were betrayed by fickle beings beyond their power that switched their favour and attention to the race that was dominant at the time (if we assume the corruption in the oral history happened before the Searing)? If you chose the first, your hypothetical past life as a jotun Thruln probably found itself subjected to Darwinian evolution through the medium of an angry jotun chieftain’s blade. The modern Thruln the Lost might not even know that the oral history has been corrupted – it’s just that every jotun that told the true story died generations ago. Adding that said new race only survived to be noticed because of the jotun is another salve to their ego – yes, the jotun might be in a bad place now, but the next dominant race only got there due to jotun intervention!

An additional consideration is that nothing we’ve seen elsewhere suggests that the norn were a powerful race contemporary to the jotun in the time of their ascendance. This also feels like something added in order to provoke a better response from the audience – Thruln the Lost probably knows that the story of the fall of the jotun probably won’t be of much interest to the typical norn, but if you say that the glory days of your own people were shared by that of your audience – then fluff their egos by telling them of how they survived the fall intact when your own people didn’t – then that’s a story the norn might care enough about to preserve. The irony is that he may be considering that to be a white lie to preserve the truth, without being aware that the only truth that remains in his own tale is that the jotun were once great and powerful.

My Theory is back when Ronan first found the seed that would become the pale tree he found it in a cave with many others like guarded by powerful plant like creatures, though of course the plant creatures were not sylvari i doubt they were anything like oakhearts. These seeds found nowhere else in the world but this one cave…makes me think that maybe these seeds were creations from the elder dragon itself. As the tree grew and gained it consciousness the first thing it would notice are Ventaris tablets with his and Ronans teachings so it could of been influenced by these tablets before it even knew it was creation of some elder dragon perhaps, who knows. The nightmare court speaks alot of their true calling and that the pale tree and the rest of the sylvari follow false teachings which im guessing means they feel the dragons influence, but then you never really hear the nightmare court mention following an elder dragon…could it perhaps be they dont even know if they are the minions of an elder dragon or know who knows, but my guess yeah they totally are.

The “five against six” comment could just be a subtle nod toward the human gods, and specifically Abaddon. It’s the Order of Whispers after all.

“Jotun, mursaat, forgotten, seer, dwarf. Five against six. It seems so unfair. And, yet.. "

Indeed it was unfair; for the 5 dragons. Plant dragon joined forces with the 5 races to defeat the other elder dragons.

Redamz.5038:

“Jotun, mursaat, forgotten, seer, dwarf. Five against six. It seems so unfair. And, yet.. "

Indeed it was unfair; for the 5 dragons. Plant dragon joined forces with the 5 races to defeat the other elder dragons.

or six dragons against 5 races, “and yet” those races prevailed.

or, as Redamz suggests, 5 races against a race blessed by not one, but 6 gods, who then became supreme rulers of tyria. “and yet” that race is now on the brink of extinction.

Just putting this up here. Can the druids have something to do with the pale tree?
If the pale tree is some kind of champion of the nature elder dragon, it can be “uncorrupted”, just like Glint. I read somewhere that the Seer are responsible for Glint her “uncorruption”.
Could the druids have something to do maybe then with the “uncorruption” of the pale tree. That would at least partially explain why one of the elite skills of the sylvari is the summoning of a druid spirit.

I still think that the fact that “once you turn to the nightmare you can never turn back” is a very good argument of the sylvari being an Elder dragon’s minions, somehow it is the true nature of the sylvari to be evil….

EnemyCrusher.7324:

I’ve been wondering why there are 5 portals in Lion’s Arch that presumably lead to expansions. At one elder dragon per expansion, I thought that was one too many, but now it makes perfect sense. On the other hand I doubt the Sylvari are dragon minions, but I wouldn’t rule out “the nightmare” being related to the final dragon.

TheHiTmAn.4738:

we can see a corrupted version of each race ….
each race have a corrupted version … all but one … the sylvari … we have never seen a risen sylvari … or branded sylvari or Icebrood sylvari … that for sure raises a question …. Why ?

This is because their race is so young. No Sylvari were around when Orr sank, none have died of old age yet, none were there when Kralkatorrik created the dragonbrand, and none have gone to worship or (directly) fight Jormag.

The issue with that is that there should be risen Sylvari if they could be corrupted. Nothing I have read in lore suggests that Asura and Norn, and definitely not Charr, were present in Orr when it sank yet there are plenty or risen of them running around. Zhaitan corrupts anyone who dies in Orr which explains their existence there considering each race is part of the Pact and has been dying to fight the dragon. If the Sylvari are also dying their why aren’t we seeing risen of them if they are corruptible?

Biohazard.2043:

The issue with that is that there should be risen Sylvari if they could be corrupted. Nothing I have read in lore suggests that Asura and Norn, and definitely not Charr, were present in Orr when it sank yet there are plenty or risen of them running around. Zhaitan corrupts anyone who dies in Orr which explains their existence there considering each race is part of the Pact and has been dying to fight the dragon. If the Sylvari are also dying their why aren’t we seeing risen of them if they are corruptible?

I haven’t seen anybody bring the Sylvari’s Anatomy into this
Unlike the other Races they are sentient Living plants and not flesh and blood beings like the Norn, Charr, Human and Asura aswell as the many other races that live in Tyria
Sylvari’s blood is a golden sap substance while their bones are hard wood and their skin is a combination of vines and leaves
correct me if im wrong here but as far as i am aware there are No corrupted plant based enemies in Guild Wars 2 either except for the Nightmare court (and the Champion Oakheart in Queens does not count since its Rotting, not corrupted)
which leads me to believe that only Living creatures of Flesh and Blood can be corrupted by the elder Dragons

onto the theory i’ve heard people say about the Dragons and Gods being connected I think that is very unlikely
from what we know the Elder Dragons predate the Gods arrival on Tyria buy a very long time, each Dragon seems to claim its own territory and from what we can see from Tyria the Elder Dragons do not cross paths
The Wiki also points out that when 2 different Dragon minions encounter each other they will fight one another suggesting that Elder Dragons are not allies and will fight one another if they happen to cross paths
so unlike the gods who all work together in peace its very unlikely they are connected

what we seem to have with the Elder Dragons is a Rain of Fire like story
the dragons awake to consume everything around them feeding on all the magical energy they can find, which fits considering that all the races have some affiliation with the Natural Magic of Tyria
all technology in Tyria is based on Magic which only further supports this even ancient cities like Arah were built in area’s with a lot of Magical energy (in Arah’s case on top of a Elder Dragon…. whoops lol)
but yes they awaken and corrupt everything they can feeding on the magical energy of the world and consuming all Magical artifacts they can find and once the world is barren and lifeless they fall back into slumber waiting for the world to replenish itself once again so that they may rise up once more and feed
it would also explain why the Gods left Tyria since they are beings of immense magical capability, its possible they themselves could be corrupted or even consumed by the Elder Dragons
after all they feared the Jotun’s ability to rebel enough to strip them of their magical ability
in some way they seem to fear Magic, perhaps its the only thing that exists that poses a threat to them and its possible that the Gods learned that the immense Magical energy they discovered in Orr was actually coming from a single being
a being perhaps even more powerful than they are or at the very least, powerful enough to pose a serious threat

Smaug cameo. Plz

its proven true now

TheHiTmAn.4738:

its proven true now

Necroing your 2 year old thread just to say you were right after you already made another thread saying the same thing?

For Shame!

I thought this was common knowledge since game launch. Did everyone really not know?

It wasn’t common knowledge, no. It became a popular theory after the players discovered the Infinite Coil Reactor and when people started playing the Arah explorable mode, especially the Jotun-Path. So about 1 month after lauch I would say. However it wasn’t confirmed until the end of Living Story Season 1.

Except that it was confirmed by the Durmand Priory scholar if you’re Whispers or Priory member… Since release.

It should have been common knowledge.

TheHiTmAn.4738:

its proven true now

You, sir, have NOTHING on Zhaitan. Your powers over Necromancy are truly impressive. You have my respect.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.