Guild Wars 2

I think at some point you have to separate the LORE from the GAME.

If you roll a Sylvari, you should be able to participate in game content, no?

Okay, I go back to the interaction between Tiachren and Ysvelta. Did anyone else choose to help Tiachren rather than save the village? Lol…
Tiachren did try to bring Ysvelta back to the Dream, through words. And, she tried to bring him to the Nightmare with her own words. When they realized that neither was going to be swayed by the other, Ysvelta stated that she would “kill to have [Tiachren].” At this point, she sent her courtiers after Tiachren and the player, but there’s no telling if it was to kill the player and take Tiachren hostage, or to kill them both. There is also no option to take Ysvelta hostage, to see if the influence of the Pale Tree could remove the touch of the Nightmare. This bothers me, personally.

Both groups are zealots. I dislike this about the entire sylvari story, and I would’ve liked to have seen more with Malyck and his Tree that isn’t under the influence of this commandment-like tablet set forth by a centaur and a human. The Nightmare Court will attack/kill/pillage/kidnap to make the Dreamers see the “truth”. The Dreamers believe that those taken by the Nightmare are lost and better off dead than spreading corruption and doing evil.

Note that I’ve only gotten to level 30 on my Sylvari… still exploring the story deeper, and I have a lot of my own questions…

Silvaria, it’s said repeatedly that the Nightmare cannot be cured (that’s actually one of the main points to that storyline). Furthermore, it taints the Dream of Dreams and the entire purpose of the Nightmare Court is to taint the Pale Tree herself – if they were to have brought Ysvelta to the Pale Tree, they’re risking allowing the NC to do what they wish: corrupt the Pale Tree.

I’d like to point out that I recall even willing sylvari are tortured.

The nighmare court is not something one simply says “Yeah, sign me up!” and gets away pain free.

Sorry, but the nightmare court really has no grounds for sympathy based one what we know of them. Especially when the nightmare court threatens the very way of life that most sylvari choose on both a physical level AND spiritual level, and have shown all the time that they are willing to go to horrible extremes to further their goal.

crawlkill.6174:

so not. so not. every response with any content so far has been “but ArenaNet said it was supposed to be this way.” that’s an explanation, not an excuse.

Then try thinking like a plant for a moment.

A tree grows. A parasite feeds. All things have a right to grow, to flourish, to choose their part of life and extend themselves outward. Corruption is something else. It seeks to usurp the growth of others and impose its will upon them, either converting or destroying them for its own ends.

You have the right to fight a disease with your immune system. A tree has a right to create natural defenses to ward off maggots and grubs. A vine has a right to secrete poison to avoid being eaten. In each of these situations, an outside entity seeks to “grow”, but only by destroying what has already flourished. Defending one’s own being from these sources is not the same as seeking the destruction of an innocent.

Peace is not the same as pacifism. All things have a right to grow, but nothing has the right to corrupt. Diseases of the body, the mind, or the soul are to be purged, for they are parasites upon this world. Just as the gardener will prune the withering branch to save the rest of the plant from infection, so too much some fallen leaves be removed to allow the rest to blossom. It is a sad task, but the alternative is the complete corruption of the garden. And that garden has a right to grow.

Celestina.2894:

I’d like to point out that I recall even willing sylvari are tortured.

The nighmare court is not something one simply says “Yeah, sign me up!” and gets away pain free.

Well, yeah, that’s because “signing up” for it is wanting to bring nightmare – memories of pain, anguish, and suffering – to the pale tree. Since they are sylvari, their own pain goes with their motives.

In other words, being Nightmare Court means you have to be a masochist.

Ah, but Renvari was kept dangerously close to the Pale Tree, wasn’t he? If only one of the Nightmare Court could damage the Tree, why didn’t he, instead of escaping as he did? Ysvelta could have been brought back to the Tree and held in the prison there. Even if it was in vain, they could’ve tried… Ysvelta hadn’t been in the Court for that long.

Alternatively, it could be that the brutality of the Nightmare Court destroys the “innocence” of the Sylvari, and that’s why it can’t be “cured”… There’s nothing to cure, because whatever there was is completely gone. Because of their torture, they choose to inflict the pain upon others, so that the “truths” revealed by their suffering will be revealed to others? Just a theory, in which the Dreamers are correct in their assumptions that those who convert to the Nightmare Court are truly “lost”.
My own character’s story (outside of the game’s preset story, of course) deals with a resistance to the Court, so I’m very interested in theorizing what the Nightmare actually is.

Ive been starting to get the feeling that the Nightmare and the Dream for that matter isnt something as simple as a state of mind. Not only does the Nightmare trigger physical changes in those following it but it actually starts to effect the natural world nearby.

Sylvari seem to have a very strong connection to the natural world. Perhaps falling to the Nightmare doesnt only mean that youve changed your attitude but actually effects the sylvari, perminantly effecting their minds and bodies.

Silvaria.7635:

Alternatively, it could be that the brutality of the Nightmare Court destroys the “innocence” of the Sylvari, and that’s why it can’t be “cured”… There’s nothing to cure, because whatever there was is completely gone. Because of their torture, they choose to inflict the pain upon others, so that the “truths” revealed by their suffering will be revealed to others? Just a theory, in which the Dreamers are correct in their assumptions that those who convert to the Nightmare Court are truly “lost”.
My own character’s story (outside of the game’s preset story, of course) deals with a resistance to the Court, so I’m very interested in theorizing what the Nightmare actually is.

Interesting theory! I know there is a Sylvari woman who has been having terrible nightmares that talks to another Sylvari near the Asura portals. HEAVILY paraphrased, the dialogue goes like this:

Male Sylvari: What’s wrong?
Female Sylvari: I’ve been having terrible nightmares and I just can’t seem to stop crying.
Male: That’s terrible, do you think they are your nightmares or someone else’s?
Female: I don’t think such terrible things could come from me!

Later:
Female: I just need to harden myself to them…
Male: No! That’s what the Nightmare Court wants, for you to stop feeling.
Female: I don’t even know who I am anymore…

It seems from these two that a Nightmare Court member does “lose” something. They lose their sense of self, which is incredibly ironic because that’s what the Court considers the tablet to be doing to the Dreamers. From what I can tell, once one falls into Nightmare, they’ve lost their self identity and lost who they were. Many still retain vestiges of their experiences, like in the moon shield storyline, but their personality is radically different.

I would imagine it would be near impossible to pull someone from that great shift, especially if you tack on the torture they have to endure. The old them is gone, replaced by what the Court wants them to be.

As far as the topic’s original theme, about sylvari who are Dreamers and very violent…
“You cannot coexist with someone that wants you dead.”

The Nightmare Court attacks the Dreamers. Caithe has probably seen way more brutality than she ever thought she would, or than the Pale Tree ever wanted her to. The same goes for the rest of the Sylvari. They had to respond to a threat that would wipe them out, change their way of thinking, change their whole way of life and corrupt them into creatures that harm instead of nurture… In the face of that, maybe Caithe’s perceived violence is justified.