Soundless & Mordremoth.

Soundless & Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Sindex.9520

Sindex.9520

I am wondering now if Mordremoth can easily psychologically influence the Soundless? That would make for a dangerous situation for the whole of the Sylvari race if that is true. However it does make me ponder why does Mordremoth simply target the Nightmare Court instead?

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Posted by: Tamias.7059

Tamias.7059

It seems that the Dream is what acts as a protection against Mordremoth’s influence. So the Soundless are susceptible but strangely enough the Nightmare Court would not be. Despite their nature they remain connected to the Dream. I guess that’s the explanation for why we, as players, are safe, as well.

There aren’t many Soundless in the Caledon, so it’s not a huge concern. Except…there’s a whole other sylvari city somewhere in Magus Falls, and they aren’t connected to the Dream (or our Dream, at least). Something to consider.

Victory Is Life Eternal [VILE]

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Posted by: Sindex.9520

Sindex.9520

However if Mordremoth can increase their intelligence tenfold like Scarlet or maybe…..

Does anyone remember Sylar from that TV show Heroes (a old NBC show about super genetic humans)? What if Mordremoth gives then the power of intuitive aptitude, but it creates them to go bonkers at the same time? All the while he keeps an open link with his victims just like the corrupted minions of the other Elder Dragons. Yet these victims would have small residue of free will, so they can seem normal from time to time. So like Mordremoth instead of a magical consumption need, he bestows upon his victims the need to consume knowledge. If they don’t get what they want it drives them to the point of homicidal tendencies.

(edited by Sindex.9520)

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

However if Mordremoth can increase their intelligence tenfold like Scarlet or maybe…..

Scarlet was born with those abilities and the thirst for knowledge. Ever since she came out of her pod, her mind had a greater understanding and fascination with the interconnectedness of all things. It was why she was so good with engineering. She saw, or at least tried to see, the whole picture when it came to something and not just the individual parts.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

The facts presented in this update regarding the relation between Mordremoth and sylvari:

  1. The hylek Explorer Amoxtil mentions the vines baring resemblance to the Nightmare Court’s influence that she’s used to seeing in Caledon Forest, but she hasn’t seen any of the Courtiers around.
  2. Aerin and Scarlet Briar are the only known sylvari to have ventured so far west (except perhaps some members of the Sinister Triad, given the presence of Inquest and bandits, and you’re able to ask said hylek about the Sinister Triad, though she mentions that she’s heard naught of such).
  3. Aerin is considered to be a Soundless by the PC (this does not mean it is true by the way!), and fell into insanity via split personality-esque complex, much like Scarlet (both in that she disconnected herself from the Dream like Soundless, and she had voices in her head).

So it seems to me that, given all evidence (the above and that which we’ve always known), the following is the situation:
Firstly, the Nightmare is indeed Mordremoth’s corruption, though what’s odd is that unlike all other Elder Dragons, he has no known active champion (unless Faolain or the Shadow of the Dragon count). Without Courtier presence we see thorned vines (not dissimilar to those the Nightmare Court grow), and “Overgrown” Husks and Hounds that share models with Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds.

Secondly, rather than “sylvari are dragon minions” it seems that sylvari – perhaps due to being plants – are susceptible to Mordremoth’s corruption based on proximity and lack of ties to the Dream of Dreams. I argue proximity due to the other Soundless being peaceful, and lack of ties to the Dream because that’s the only shared connection beyond location that Aerin and Ceara hold (also this prevents PCs and NPCs of relevance from becoming susceptible by proximity). Said corruption does not seem to change any physical appearance, however, but changes their personality (which matches the Nightmare Court’s case).

Still though, it should be noted that although incredibly likely, we don’t know if those vines and Overgrown Husks/Hounds are Mordremoth’s doing yet – or if there is a faction of the Nightmare Court (Sinister Triaaaad) around, and they messed with Aerin’s head. We’ll see next update for sure, and I’m guessing it’s the former but honestly? Hoping for the later.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Sindex.9520

Sindex.9520

Scarlet was born with those abilities and the thirst for knowledge. Ever since she came out of her pod, her mind had a greater understanding and fascination with the interconnectedness of all things. It was why she was so good with engineering. She saw, or at least tried to see, the whole picture when it came to something and not just the individual parts.

Maybe using the term of knowledge was a bad choice words. It could be the desires of one person, which are then twisted and enhanced to Mordremoth needs. Scarlet wanted to achieve the ultimate technological breakthrough, and Aerin desired to understand the Zephyrites power. Both by any means necessary; once they were under Mordremoth influence.

(edited by Sindex.9520)

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

If Mordremoth is behind the Nightmare Court then the only corruption is of the mind which indicates that Mordremoth is working around the Sylvari die from corruption part by making the corruption mental rather than fatally physical….

The Dream most likely makes it easier for Mordremoth to erase the original personality….. Why else did it take that much time for him to corrupt 2 Soundless?

Cadeyrn’s Nightmare was bad memories yet Faolain’s Nightmare is likely nothing more than Mordremoth’s will….

Once Faolain joined the Nightmare Court she hijacked it and merged her Nightmare with that of Cadeyrn’s Nightmare.

Now why does Mordremoth like technology so much despite being a Vine Elder Dragon?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Faolain – and the other Courtiers to be honest – act nothing like Ceara and Aerin, to be perfectly honest. So if the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s corruption, then Aerin and Ceara were corrupted in an entirely different – and more powerful given that the Nightmare Court still seek to kill the Elder Dragons – way.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

Elder Dragons were stated to have their minions kill the minions of other Elder Dragons….

Mordremoth may be seeking to kill off his rivals….

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Is it not a bit to soon to say that Aerin bad moves means Mordremoth activity? I mean Canach did bad thing without (apparently) being influenced by a dragon…
What I think is Aerin did what he did through avidity of power because apparently that is where it started between Master of Peace and him.
I don’t know how Master of Peace’s voice sounds in other language but in french it sounds quite suspicious. Maybe a voice is no proof of anything but his lines are also quite strange. To me He is going to be someone we are going to fight.
What I think is after getting power from Glint remnants and also maybe from a place where an Elder Dragon was fought (and maybe injured) Zephyrites are also sseking power from a stirring dragon. Knowing the power they have and seek, Aerin asked for sharing a bit but upon Master of Peace refusal he turned upset and wanted to get it by force and hence attacked the Master.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Aerin seems to change a lot from when we see him trying to get onto the ship to when we come across him in Maguuma where he is very different and even a little confused. Is it possible he was a good intentioned sylvari when boarding the ship, but when they flew over Maguuma his increased proximity to Mordremoth resulted in him losing it?

Maybe he did intend to sabotage the ship from the beginning and his actions before getting on were all an act (he was asking a lot of questions), but maybe something else was going on?

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

With all the thorn monsters aiding Aerin, he surely has to be involved with the Jungle Dragon. My reading of it would be that the Jungle Dragon can talk to and coerce plants, including the Sylvari. The dream protects against this and maybe nightmare does too. Neither Aerin nor Scarlet fall into nightmare, and that seems significant to me. If the Nightmare Court are going to become the servants of the dragon then why didn’t these other servants join their ranks?

A lot of other questions follow on from this. If it is the dream that protects the Sylvari then can other creatures be protected by the dream as well? Can another parent tree be protected in the same way as the Pale Tree, and if not are the offsping all going to be vulnerable to the dragon? Malyck’s tree is likely to be dangerous as well as Malyck himself.

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

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Posted by: zwierz.9012

zwierz.9012

That would mean, that Reed Stalkers etc. can in fact be left over Mordie minions…

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

With all the thorn monsters aiding Aerin, he surely has to be involved with the Jungle Dragon. My reading of it would be that the Jungle Dragon can talk to and coerce plants, including the Sylvari. The dream protects against this and maybe nightmare does too. Neither Aerin nor Scarlet fall into nightmare, and that seems significant to me. If the Nightmare Court are going to become the servants of the dragon then why didn’t these other servants join their ranks?

A lot of other questions follow on from this. If it is the dream that protects the Sylvari then can other creatures be protected by the dream as well? Can another parent tree be protected in the same way as the Pale Tree, and if not are the offsping all going to be vulnerable to the dragon? Malyck’s tree is likely to be dangerous as well as Malyck himself.

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

I think that Nightmare is described as being part of the Dream so if the Dream is the protection one could also guess the Nightmare is.

As for the vine attacking, they could also be here to defend the fleeing Master ?

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

With all the thorn monsters aiding Aerin, he surely has to be involved with the Jungle Dragon. My reading of it would be that the Jungle Dragon can talk to and coerce plants, including the Sylvari. The dream protects against this and maybe nightmare does too. Neither Aerin nor Scarlet fall into nightmare, and that seems significant to me. If the Nightmare Court are going to become the servants of the dragon then why didn’t these other servants join their ranks?

A lot of other questions follow on from this. If it is the dream that protects the Sylvari then can other creatures be protected by the dream as well? Can another parent tree be protected in the same way as the Pale Tree, and if not are the offsping all going to be vulnerable to the dragon? Malyck’s tree is likely to be dangerous as well as Malyck himself.

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

I think that Nightmare is described as being part of the Dream so if the Dream is the protection one could also guess the Nightmare is.

As for the vine attacking, they could also be here to defend the fleeing Master ?

That’s pushing it. The vines aren’t defending him- they’re attacking the people who are defending him, people the Master would have no reason to feel threatened by.

This idea is starting to feel like a rehash of the Ellen Kiel as villainous mastermind conspiracy theory.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Elder Dragons were stated to have their minions kill the minions of other Elder Dragons….

Mordremoth may be seeking to kill off his rivals….

False.

What was stated is that if dragon minions cross, they’ll attack each other like they’ll attack any other. But elsewhere it’s been stated that the Elder Dragons just don’t care if a few of their weaker minions get killed or even kill each other (this analogy used for the Sons of Svanir killing off female norn icebrood – “oh look, the black ants are killing the red ants” to use Jeff Grubb’s words). And the Elder Dragons are never called rivals, just said they’re not working together. This can mean a bunch of things, really.

Is it not a bit to soon to say that Aerin bad moves means Mordremoth activity? I mean Canach did bad thing without (apparently) being influenced by a dragon…
What I think is Aerin did what he did through avidity of power because apparently that is where it started between Master of Peace and him.

Aerin…

  1. Went crazy while aboard the Zephyrite Ship.
  2. Started talking to a voice in his head, akin to Scarlet.
  3. Claimed to be leaving the Pale Tree, akin to Scarlet.
  4. Left a note about a leader falling, not all that different than Scarlet’s attacks on the leaders of the world too, come to think of it.

There’s a lot of similarities between Scarlet and Aerin – though as Taimi said, Scarlet was methodical, Aerin was rampant.

I don’t know how Master of Peace’s voice sounds in other language but in french it sounds quite suspicious. Maybe a voice is no proof of anything but his lines are also quite strange. To me He is going to be someone we are going to fight.

His tone sounded a lot like Jurah from Nightfall to me, when we first hear him speak. It’s that mysterious figurehead who’s good but seems shady kind of voice.

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

The wording was “those born of the Pale Tree” die when touched by corruption, rather than becoming corrupted.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

I am wondering now if Mordremoth can easily psychologically influence the Soundless? That would make for a dangerous situation for the whole of the Sylvari race if that is true. However it does make me ponder why does Mordremoth simply target the Nightmare Court instead?

We don’t have enough information yet. So far it seems that those Sylvari not connected to the dream are susceptible, but we’ve for limited evidence either way.

The Nightmare Court are still connected however to the Dream. Or more accurately they’re connected to the Nightmare. So any protection (if there is any at all) that the Dream provides is also available to the Nightmare Court.

means Mordremoth activity? I mean Canach did bad thing without (apparently) being influenced by a dragon…

But in his mind he was doing the right thing. When you later talk to him in jail he retrospectively sees his mistakes and feel remorse. So not exactly the same as the Crazy Sylvari Duo (that is Scarlet and Aerin).

I think that Nightmare is described as being part of the Dream so if the Dream is the protection one could also guess the Nightmare is.

Neither the Dream nor the Nightmare is ever really discussed in detail. Either Nightmare is a part of the Dream (like the Force has a light and a dark side), or it exists within the Dream (and thus can be accessed via the Dream). Either way the argument can be made that the Nightmare Court has some connected to either the Dream itself (but in anther form) or to something within the Dream via the Dream.

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

The wording was “those born of the Pale Tree” die when touched by corruption, rather than becoming corrupted.

Although all the corruption Sylvari have so far been exposed to had a notable physical component. The current theory seems to be that Mordy is circumventing this defense mechanism by only corrupting the minds of Sylvari, but…. it’s only a theory. We have no idea how Mordy corrupts or doesn’t corrupt.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

That would mean, that Reed Stalkers etc. can in fact be left over Mordie minions…

Is a theory I wouldn’t mind really.

In my mind at the moment, soundless seem more open to whatever the corruption is in the jungle. Nightmare court and dreamers aren’t affected it seemed.

What if this is related to the darkness Faolin and Caithe found, but Faolin embraced it?

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

If Faolain embraced it than the Dreamers can and do fall under Mordremoth’s control even with the Pale Tree’s protection….

Her protection is tied to Scarlet’s picture of what she thinks is the Eternal Alchemy but is infact the Realm of Torment….

She is depicted as being in the middle of the Realm of Torment which indicates that she’s a stopper blocking Menzies and Dhuum’s plans….

Menzies it seems certain is the voice whispering into Scarlet’s mind…. Whispering from the forest under the Pale Tree….

Mordremoth obviously corrupted Scarlet immediately upon her abandoning the Pale Tree due to well… abandoning the Pale Tree…. He takes what he can get!

All enemies of the Pale Tree are potential subjects of his…. Nightmare Court and Soundless can all be used as Dragon Minions…

Of course said minions when missing their protection from the Pale Tree(even the Nightmare Court has that protection and they show obvious ties to Mordremoth with their minions) can hear the whispers of the Realm of Torment…..

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I don’t get how you jump to “Her protection is tied to Scarlet’s picture of what she thinks is the Eternal Alchemy but is infact the Realm of Torment….”

Specifically the “but is infact the Realm of Torment”. I believe you’re referring to the drawing of a tree in the center of a circle, yes? And you’re taking said circle to be the world map of the Realm of Torment as seen in Nightfall?

The issue is that the idea of an alchemy circle being used to map out the Mists predates that – in Prophecies and Factions’ backgrounds you could sometime see some faint alchemy circle – it was brought up once what this was, and the response was Lord Odran’s map of the Mists. It should be noted that there were three total designs seen in GW1 – one of which was the Realm of Torment map, and the third was a dual disjointed half-circle (in that there were two “half-circles” which are a bit messed up and not lined up to each other) used in the background of some Nightfall stuff.

In at least the synergetics intro choice, you can see an alchemy circle much like this, and the description led to the circle that surrounds the tree drawing fits as well.

Maps of the Mists, the “maps” of Eternal Alchemy, and what appears to be a mapping of what surrounds the Pale Tree… all appear very similar.

For those who don’t know what I speak of in all this:

And here’s one of a few old discussions on that alchemy circle after being told what it truly is.

I’ll have to actually go make a new character to get the circles in the asura intro cinematic. But this is all irrelevant to talking about Mordremoth’s corruption of Soundless.

Though it does make an interesting furthering of the Dream and the Mists’ potential ties.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Aerin is a sylvari (just like I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Scarlet was a sylvari when she went into Omadd’s device). I’ll remind people of the dialogue from the A Study in Scarlet (Sherlock Holmes reference btw) instance from Season 1. It talks about the moment we think changed Ceara/Scarlet.

Vorpp: This is Synergetics Headmaster Omadd’s isolation module. A sylvari named Ceara went in; Scarlet came out.
Vorpp: I reverse-engineered an image of Ceara’s aura patterns before and after. The schism is pronounced and dramatic.
Vorpp: Yesss. I remember Professor Omadd. He outsmarted me in several Pollymock[sic] tournaments. I’m sure he cheated…but that’s beside the point. He never should have put Ceara in that cube.
Player:What can you tell me about the cube?
Vorpp: His notes say its purpose was to shut down the mind’s security system and open it—like opening a door—to welcome in the truths of the Eternal Alchemy. But our minds are protected for a reason.
Player: When Scarlet looked across the open threshold, she saw things. And something looked back.
Vorpp: Ceara encountered something that literally broke her mind, but the only things in there were things she brought.
Vorpp: I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection?
Vorpp: We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusions.

Keep in mind the dialogue options rule out incorrect options, so the writers are telling us this is the correct conclusion (unless they are forcing the PC to be wrong).

The thing about Ceara’s transformation is that she presumably had her mind’s protections stripped by Omadd’s device. This obviously didn’t happen to Aerin. If anything did happen to Aerin, assuming he wasn’t acting before boarding the ship (he seemed genuine at the time) it happened while he was on the ship and if he was behind the sabotage it happens as the ship flies over Maguuma, where we suspect Mordremoth is.

Maybe Scarlet needed to have her mind’s protections stripped by Omadd’s device because she was a long way away from Mordremoth who was sleeping at the time. Now it’s awake and its power might be stronger, able to influence a sylvari’s mind simply on proximity alone.

Honestly, do we have any reason to believe Aerin is a soundless aside from NPCs clumsily mentioning the Soundless? Did Aerin himself mention being a soundless or turning away from the “shelter” of the Pale Tree?

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

The wording was “those born of the Pale Tree” die when touched by corruption, rather than becoming corrupted.

I thought it was more along the lines that the sylvari die before the corruption takes hold rather than explicitly stating corruption kills. We’ve been over this before and it ends up going down to semantics, but I think it’s more accurate the second way of saying it because it’s doesn’t explicitly say they don’t get corrupted, just that the process of corruption results in death. Maybe the corruption isn’t killing them, maybe the Pale Tree’s “protection” is killing them like a captured spy would swallow a cyanide pill, without the “protection” they are similarly vulnerable like other races.

Neither Scarlet nor Aerin seem to act as we traditionaly know dragon corruption to work, so assuming Mordremoth is behind their persona change (Scarlet’s change merely states an entity not specifically Mordremoth – I don’t even think that name has been spoken or written anywhere in Tyria, it’s simply from a combat log) it might work differently from dragon corruption, more like influencing their mind rather than corrupting it (and Scarlet’s fierce independence from the moment of her birth may have allowed her to “fight” off the influence better than Aerin ever could). We know there were other sylvari on the Zephyr Sanctum yet afaik Aerin was the only one to act “crazy”. In some cases the PC is a sylvari and also doesn’t change in the area, so there has to be something like Aerin (for instance, assume he’s a Soundless) that would make him vulnerable.

Between the centaur camp flag (BWE icon for the Grove), Malyck’s mother tree likely being in Maguuma, the (imo) deliberate choice to make both Scarlet and Aerin sylvari, I think we are in for a sylvari lore heavy season two. I don’t think it will be long before we run into sylvari from another tree and learn more about the Dream.

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Posted by: Dakota.4591

Dakota.4591

Have we been told in game whether all Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, including the nightmare court, including the soundless?

We were told this in-game by a sylvari in one of the Orr missions, about how there’s a pact squad of all sylvari since they can’t be corrupted.

However, that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s correct. The Pale Tree sylvari might be immune, and just assume that the foreign sylvari are because they have no reason to think otherwise.

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Posted by: Ausfer.1853

Ausfer.1853

All of this falls in line with the theory that the Sylvari were originally convieced as dragon minions.

At the expense of tooting my own horn, I posted before season 2 starting predicting that any non-pale-tree sylvari will be succeptible to mordremoth’s influence. I’m sure I’m not the only one who came up with this conclusion, but still… looks like it could be true.

I agree with others saying the Nightmare Court will also be protected, because they are still connected to the Dream. The Soundless, however… they’re probably be, for lack of a better word, screwed. But even if they are procted from direct influence, I can easily see the Nightmare Court willingly align themselves with Mordremoth’s goals, believing it’s more in line with the sylvari’s true purpose.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

It’s not established that Aerin is not a Pale Tree sylvari. Before boarding the ship he was like any other sylvari. The Soundless mention by the PC came out of nowhere and isn’t supported by anything that Aerin displayed prior to it being said, it was a seemingly random line thrown in there to confuse things.

For all we know, a mursaat (or White Mantle) in Maguuma have discovered a way to get into the minds of the sylvari using the Dream/their magical empathic connection to each other. It hasn’t shown up in other races yet because their minds don’t have that Dream/empathy connection going on.

One of the more interesting questions about all of this, is why haven’t we seen other sylvari aside from Aerin have issues? Assuming it’s geography based (he got close to something) why didn’t it happen to the PC if they are a sylvari? Why didn’t it happen to the other sylvari Zephyrites? I know there was at least one sylvari Zephyrite, have we seen him since the patch? Maybe he was on another ship.

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Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

@Shiren, the PC states that a piece of writing written by Aerin is a Soundless mantra – that’s where it came from. Though I still think it’s weak evidence and was a little bit thrown in… But there is an explanation there.

And the proximity thing is where him being Soundless comes in to play. The implication as that when a Soundless gets close to Mordremoth or w/e they open themselves up to corruption – whereas the PC is connected to the Dream which could be acting as a safeguard. – I mean it’s sort of speculation, but it seems like what they were trying to hint at.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Except Aerin was not a Soundless. Not only is the writing seemingly introducing that after the fact (via the PC’s observation and a more detailed mention if you’re a sylvari) it conflicts with his dialogue from his time when trying to board the ship. Many of us discussed Aerin in this forum and his acceptance to the Zephyrites, but it seems none of us documented his dialogue on the wiki. Fortunately someone on tumblr (never thought I’d say that) screen capped it.

http://hyacinth-vale.tumblr.com/post/90532935832/spoilers-for-season-2-chapter-1-who-was-aerin

Two lines in particular indicate he’s not a Soundless.

Aerin: Pale Mother guide me… the Zephyrites are right in front of me, but how can I convince them to let me help?

and

Aerin: I shall record every moment in my journal so that even those who can’t access the Dream know the joy that I’m experiencing.

To me both of these lines clearly establish Aerin as a Dreamer and not a Soundless (they are also very out of character with how quickly Aerin dismisses the Zephyrites and their vows when confronting the Master of Peace). I know people are talking about the line about leaving your burdens behind as suggesting his connection to the Pale Tree is a burden and he became a Soundless (I thought Soundless was a faction, he would need to visit them to join them, Scarlet similarly cut herself off from the Pale Tree and she was never considered a Soundless). Leaving your burdens behind is weak and vague at best, it doesn’t clearly establish he cuts off ties to the Pale Tree, especially when there are two strong lines of dialogue moments before that that clearly establish he still phones his mother once a week, unlike his sister Scarlet.

Also keep in mind Aerin isn’t the only sylvari Zephyrite. We discussed this before (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Kodan-and-Zephyrites/first#post4062730) and there was at least one sylvari identified as a Zephyrite other than Aerin. If joining the Zephyrites requires you to become “Soundless” or at least cut off from the Pale Tree, the other sylvari Zephyrite(s) would be similarly vulnerable like Aerin was.

Either the Soundless plot thread is misleading, it’s being very clumsily handled or we don’t have enough information to make sense of it yet. Maybe they only included it to revive/introduce the concept of the Soundless to the wider audience as background for a future plot (not necessarily this one – sylvari seems to be a big theme in season two)? This sub has discussed them in detail, but the truth is if you don’t do that heart in Caledon and you don’t visit this sub, most players never would have heard of them before.

Has anyone visited the Pale Tree or the Soundless village in game since completing the chapter? I doubt the Soundless have ever heard of him (but we should be able to ask about him in a Living World) but the Pale Tree was aware of Scarlet’s encounter with the Entity, if something happened to Aerin she should have been similarly aware of her son becoming lost to her.

Edit: Checked the Pale Tree and she makes no mention of Aerin or anything new. The Soundless I spoke to don’t mention Aerin but one of them, Quillyn, calls the dream a “burden”.

Quillyn: Welcome to the Weeping Isle. Have you come to share our tears or to bring us a smile?
Player: Are your tears bitter or are they sweet?
Quillyn: Neither. Pain is a luxury we can ill afford. After all, we came here to emancipate ourselves from the Dream and the burden it imposes upon us.

So some Soundless sylvari do consider the Dream to be a burden. I would argue that’s not the case for most sylvari (and certainly not Aerin as we knew him).

Quillyn: I hear that Nemi has left us to return to Astoria.
Soundless Villager: Not all are capable of living outside the Dream. I hope she finds happiness in its stifling embrace.

The words “stifling embrace” in no way describe Aerin prior to boarding the ship. This makes me think he wouldn’t consider the Dream a burden.

Quillyn: Last night, I was overcome with thoughts… images of my companions back home.
Soundless Villager: That’s to be expected. In time, with more practice, you will be able to purge yourself of such unwelcome intrusions.

To me that suggests that even if Aerin wanted to cut off ties with the Dream, it’s not something he could do easily. It takes time and practice and he only just got on the Zephyrite ship. Unless the Zephyrites have a special technique or Aerin was naturally gifted in meditation, I doubt he could achieve a Soundless state so soon after beginning his time as a Zephyrite.

(edited by Shiren.9532)

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Of course, it could’ve happen during the trip. I mean, from the cliffes to the edge of the Maguuma wastes is a LONG distance, and could’ve been a hefty travel time. Maybe he became soundless during that period.

OR, maybe he was acting like he was an excited dreamer to be accepted more easily. Maybe he was soundless all along but figured doing the excited ‘naive’ Sylvari act would get him onboard quicker. Or he always had darker motivations and again, used that act to get himself onboard.

Also, I’ve never seen a THING that indicates you have to visit the soundless village to join the soundless (obviously to join the village you’d have to, but the soundless as a sylvari type? nope.). Scarlet isolated herself from the tree/dream yes, but she didn’t share the mindset of the soundless and went her own way. Aerin however, is an unknown.

Or Aerin just started it and wasn’t fully a ‘soundless’. Or something about that and the magic from glint caused a reaction in his mental state, twisting it.

Or whatever is behind the jungle corruption or Scarlet latched onto him as he started becoming soundless and altered his meditations.

(edited by Kalavier.1097)

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Soundless is a group of sylvari, not a generic term used to describe a sylvari that has been cut off from the Dream. If a sylvari cut off from the Dream was automatically a Soundless, then Scarlet should be considered Soundless. She was neither a Dreamer nor a Courtier.

I know of five types of relationships a sylvari can have (or not have) to the Dream.

  1. Dreamers. The carebears of the sylvari race. This is the PC and the vast majority of sylvari you come across. They embrace the Dream (or don’t actively shun it) and their experience go back into the Dream. They share an empathic bond with other Dream sylvari. Most follow the teachings of Ventari.
  2. Nightmare Courtiers. They have been (supposedly) irrecoverably twisted to Nightmare. They are “evil” and don’t follow Ventari, considering his teachings to be a false idea of what sylvari should be. They embrace pain, anguish, suffering – anything they can use to resonate back into the Dream, believing it to be in line with the true nature of the sylvari. The Pale Tree isn’t a fan. To be a Couriter you have to fall to Nightmare, something similar to dragon corruption.
  3. Soundless. They meditate and isolate themselves to cut off their connection to the Pale Tree. As far as I know, only a single Soundless village exists in Tyria with a very small population, no known Soundless are found elsewhere. Note that their village is close to the Pale Tree geographically and many Dreamers venture far beyond the Pale Tree. Soundless are not a “type” of sylvari, they are a group of sylvari. To join a group you have to… join the group. You can’t become a member of the Vigil by acting like the Vigil.
  4. Scarlet. She never identified as a Dreamer, Nightmare Couriter or a Soundless. She is probably most like the Soundless although they never actively seek to hurt others or the Pale Tree. If cutting off from the Pale Tree makes you a Soundless, how is Scarlet not one of them? Soundless isn’t a state of being, it’s a group of sylvari.
  5. Malyck. Some people seem to forget about him. He had no Dream, at least not that he could identify with to Trahearne, Caithe or the PC. A sylvari Dream expert says he is not from the Pale Tree, but an unknown mother tree, suspected to be found somewhere deeper into Maguuma.

Keep in mind there are also sylvari pirates and looters. Some of the pirates are hostile and will burn villages and kidnap people. They aren’t Nightmare Courtiers nor are they following the teachings of Ventari. I’m not sure where they fall in the spectrum of sylvari.

Two mentions of Soundless which are not supported by anything other than a line which happens to be a “Soundless mantra” and directly conflict with Aerin’s portrayal before boarding the ship. Maybe a lot of things, but the things we saw in the game don’t support the idea that he’s Soundless.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Again, you act as if it’s impossible that Aerin was acting one way in order to try to secure his passage on board for whatever reason. In general, people would trust the friendly, helpful dreamer Sylvari then the kinda secretive soundless.

Whether he was doing it for evil purposes or neutral reasons (but got corrupted), we don’t know. But I think it’s still very much on the table.

It’s not like humanity is the only race which can be sneaky and say one thing to try to get their objective. Hell, in Sylvari white stag storyline the nightmare court member did exactly that, pretending (or simply not making it clear he was nightmare) to be a dreamer, only to take the stag for Nightmare once they caught it.

Soundless are a group/village yes, but there is nothing saying you can’t be a ‘soundless’ and be elsewhere. Or that you can ONLY become a soundless by joining that village.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Why couldn’t Aerin have become Soundless? The Zephyrites are all about secrecy, and we are told that the Dream has no knowledge of the Zephyr Sanctum and the Zephyrites when they first visit despite there being a Zephyrite sylvari! Furthermore, it was said during Aerin’s many dialogues by a Zephyrite that it is customary for new passengers who join them to leave their burdens behind – and to them, the Dream may constitute as a burden as well as a security leak. So enforcing sylvari to undergo Soundless-ness is not out of the realm of likeliness.

Furthermore, the Soundless is more than just a group – becoming Soundless is literally part of removing oneself from the Dream, so yes, one can consider Scarlet a Soundless – but one that was made Soundless against her own will (well, arguably so – as she did leave the Pale Tree’s protection willingly, and this may have been the act of her losing her ties to the Dream, whether she realized it would or not).

But just because Aerin acts one way before the trip doesn’t mean that he didn’t change on the ship. In fact, we know he changed on the ship – it was during the travel that Aerin went insane, according to the Master of Peace.

And regarding that Zephyrite sylvari of generic naming… who’s to say he wasn’t turned by Mordremoth or whatever turned Aerin insane as well? We haven’t seen a sylvari Zephyrite since the ship crashed! No body nor NPC! In fact, Aerin is the only sylvari seen in all of Dry Top, I believe.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I have two questions that I would like answered. Is the Master of Peace a member of the Order of Whispers and how does the miner with the itchy skull fit into this? The miner with the itchy skull seems to have gotten close to the ley lines. Perhaps this is what is causing his skull to be itchy. If this is caused by the ley lines, then perhaps the ley lines triggered Scarlet’s behavior when the dream’s protection was lost. Possibly the proximity to the ley lines is what caused Aerin to go crazy.

So, is there something in the ley lines that is infecting those that go near it?

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

In general, people would trust the friendly, helpful dreamer Sylvari then the kinda secretive soundless.

I don’t think it matters – why would it matter whether he is Soundless or a Dreamer? The Soundless aren’t evil, and as Konig suggests, the Zephyrites might have reason to prefer Soundless over Dreamers (I’ll get to that).

The evidence suggests that he is not Soundless when boarding, and thus the mantra found is out of established character. If it’s an actual Soundless mantra, where did Aerin learn it? Why did he embrace it?

The Zephyrites are all about secrecy, and we are told that the Dream has no knowledge of the Zephyr Sanctum and the Zephyrites when they first visit despite there being a Zephyrite sylvari!

Because when the Zephyrite ship first visited last year, it had been so long since the last visit the sylvari weren’t numerous enough to visit. I’ll point you to a quote from a sylvari NPC from the first visit of the Zephyr Sanctum last year.

Foldach: There is no memory of this place in the dream. The Pale Tree had heard of it, of course, but no sylvari had ever walked the decks and experienced it.

Even if sylvari had come before us, how would the Zephyrites prevent a sylvari’s first experiences on the Zephyr Sanctum from going back into the Dream? The Dream isn’t just a switch you flip on or off, it requires meditation and concentration to isolate yourself from it. The feedback into the Dream is instant, it’s not a journalist filing a report, it’s a natural process. A sylvari first discovering a flying air ship full of a peace loving people from across the world? That’s the kind of thing that goes into the Dream, even if they didn’t board the ship. It’s believable that the secrets of the Zephyrites aren’t in the Dream if they force them to become Soundless once joining and hide secrets until then, but that wouldn’t prevent random visitors to the bazaar from witnessing the ship at all.

The most logical explanation is that no sylvari had come across the Zephyrites before it’s visit last year, or that any sylvari that did were either Soundless or not of the Pale Tree (another mother tree basically). Do we know for sure the sylvari Zephyrite we see on the Sanctum didn’t join that year? Or that they are Dreamers and not from another tree? If they chose to join the Zephyrites, any experience up until they embrace a Soundless life should be shareable into the Dream – and it wasn’t, suggesting they are either new recruits or not connected to the Dream before joining.

Furthermore, it was said during Aerin’s many dialogues by a Zephyrite that it is customary for new passengers who join them to leave their burdens behind – and to them, the Dream may constitute as a burden as well as a security leak. So enforcing sylvari to undergo Soundless-ness is not out of the realm of likeliness.

Aerin doesn’t consider the Dream a burden. The Soundless might, but Aerin seems very happy to embrace his connection with the Pale Tree and share his experiences with others – so far as he intends to write a journal so that people who can’t Dream will know what he knows. There is no way for the Zephyrites to know for sure what Aerin is doing. If they want him to be Soundless to keep secrets, how would they know he’s not pretending to meditate? It’s completely unenforceable. Sylvari get by fine in the Order of Whispers.

It’s a big leap for him to go from “Pale Mother guide me…” to “I turn my back on you, Mother. My solo voice of truth will dampen the cacophony of fools. – Aerin”. The Zephyrites would have to resort to extreme measures to convincingly change a person from one to the other. He wanted to join the Zephyrites and share his experience (“I shall record every moment in my journal so that even those who can’t access the Dream know the joy that I’m experiencing.”) not isolate himself from everyone.

If Aerin changed in any way on the Zephyr Sanctum, I don’t believe it was voluntary.

Furthermore, the Soundless is more than just a group – becoming Soundless is literally part of removing oneself from the Dream, so yes, one can consider Scarlet a Soundless – but one that was made Soundless against her own will (well, arguably so – as she did leave the Pale Tree’s protection willingly, and this may have been the act of her losing her ties to the Dream, whether she realized it would or not).

Then why do we never come across sylvari referred to as Soundless outside of the Weeping Isle? Why is Scarlet never refereed to as Soundless? You say one can consider Scarlet Soundless, but no-one ever does.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

I have two questions that I would like answered. Is the Master of Peace a member of the Order of Whispers and how does the miner with the itchy skull fit into this? The miner with the itchy skull seems to have gotten close to the ley lines. Perhaps this is what is causing his skull to be itchy. If this is caused by the ley lines, then perhaps the ley lines triggered Scarlet’s behavior when the dream’s protection was lost. Possibly the proximity to the ley lines is what caused Aerin to go crazy.

So, is there something in the ley lines that is infecting those that go near it?

I’m not really sure how I think about the itchy skull thing. On one hand, it could be something Lovecraftian in nature, and something is sending mental feelers out into the surrounding area. That would fit the profile is any numbers of unpleasant things.

Or on the other hand, such a high concentration of magic could be adversely effecting the things in the area, people and objects, kinda like radiation maybe? There is a conversation that the mining equipment is acting up the further they dig down. Though, I’m not sure if the equipment is magical in nature or not. We need more details on that part.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Aerin doesn’t consider the Dream a burden. The Soundless might, but Aerin seems very happy to embrace his connection with the Pale Tree and share his experiences with others – so far as he intends to write a journal so that people who can’t Dream will know what he knows. There is no way for the Zephyrites to know for sure what Aerin is doing. If they want him to be Soundless to keep secrets, how would they know he’s not pretending to meditate? It’s completely unenforceable. Sylvari get by fine in the Order of Whispers.

I never said Aerin considers the Dream a burden.

And I don’t think it wouldn’t be un-enforceable. He was clearly highly interested in joining them, so given that personality it seems he’d readily agree to such. Plus there was another sylvari there, and he’d likely be able to tell whether another’s Soundless or not. Though I’m half-speculating on that.

Then why do we never come across sylvari referred to as Soundless outside of the Weeping Isle? Why is Scarlet never refereed to as Soundless? You say one can consider Scarlet Soundless, but no-one ever does.

1) Because those who make themselves known as Soundless stick to that one small community. However, not all Soundless are there, as there is no Firstborn there and the Soundless meditations were begun by a Firstborn.

2) Because people likely don’t know that she was disconnected from the Dream (as we only know it due to the short story and some interviews)? And also if they do know such (which would really be limited to Vorpp, Pale Tree, the biconics, and the PC if that) they likely either wouldn’t tarnish the Soundless community or consider her of the usually peaceful Soundless community.

3) Just because no NPC considers such, doesn’t mean it can’t be considered.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Soundless & Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

(H)ow does the miner with the itchy skull fit into this? The miner with the itchy skull seems to have gotten close to the ley lines. Perhaps this is what is causing his skull to be itchy. If this is caused by the ley lines, then perhaps the ley lines triggered Scarlet’s behavior when the dream’s protection was lost. Possibly the proximity to the ley lines is what caused Aerin to go crazy.

So, is there something in the ley lines that is infecting those that go near it?

I’ve started a discussion in another thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Magic-the-Mind-and-Maguuma) looking into that. It didn’t fit in here. Honestly there is so much going on this patch, it’s hard to keep thoughts, theories and discussions organised (writers can consider that praise, I’m enjoying the depth of the first release so far).

@ Konig, I agree with your last post. Aerin could possibly have become like the Soundless during the flight. I can’t rule out that Scarlet could be classified as Soundless (waiting on more info before a better judgement could be made I guess). Hopefully we see the Soundless lore fleshed out (including the Firstborn) in the future. I’m not convinced about a sylvari’s ability to judge another’s status as a Soundless (if nothing else, it seems dynamic – you can slip up and plug back into the dream, so maybe one moment you are, the next you aren’t). I’m mostly uncomfortable about how much of this seemingly important plot point takes place off-screen – we don’t know (maybe that’s explored next release). My mind is open (not so open Mordremoth can get in though… Anyone?).

BTW there are no sylvari in Prosperity. There are several humans, there is at least one asura, two charr, a norn but no sylvari. Given the proximity to the Grove, doesn’t anyone find this odd?

(edited by Shiren.9532)

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Not really. It’s in an area which the access route beforehand was secret passages known by bandits. Most everybody didn’t even know it exisisted.

Though about soundless. It’s because the Syvlari can ‘sense’ each other somewhat through the dream. A soundless doesn’t have that, so they can be sensed because of that.

Though I still think if he always had negative intentions, or neutral ones then went crazy, why is it so odd to consider the fact he might’ve been pretending and putting forth an act? Wouldn’t be the first time a Sylvari acted as if they were a dreamer to get close to something powerful.

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Posted by: Gulesave.5073

Gulesave.5073

What if sylvari die when touched by corruption because the Pale Tree is deliberately extinguishing them before it takes hold? That could explain why the soundless can survive the process.

As for Mordy not corrupting physically: we don’t know that. Husks could very well be corrupted minions, (like icebrood), instead of generated, (like destroyers). We haven’t seen the process in action yet, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t occur.

I should be writing.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

So given points brought up in this other thread, mainly the apparent timeline of Scarlet’s life, it becomes apparent that her journal from Season 1 predates her going into the machine – as per my calculations given all current information, she had to enter the machine in 1324 AE, when she was 16 (and that she’s a Secondborn).

This is important, as it means Scarlet Briar still had a connection to the Dream when she first came into contact with the entity. Whether or not this entity is Mordremoth, and whether or not this entity is who messed with Aerin, it means that Scarlet – or Ceara at the time – was not akin to Soundless-ness.

Thus being separated from the Dream, or having her “barriers” in her mind broken down has absolutely nothing to do with the entity messing with her.

If the entity Scarlet dealt with is the same as the voice Aerin dealt with, then this means that Aerin, indeed, may not have been Soundless. Perhaps on the way to becoming such given the mantra found, but may not have been one yet. And in either case, if he was Soundless, it is irrelevant – maybe makes him more susceptible, but overall did not prevent him being messed with.

This is very important, because it means that whatever happened to them… the Dream isn’t a preventive measure.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Soundless & Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

The timeline doesn’t look like a reliable deduction tool to me. If Scarlet was occupying the Priory lair after the Prosperity lair, why does her Priory diary predate her Prosperity diary?

Whilst I’m thinking about it, we still don’t know why Scarlet had a lair under the Priory. Is Ogden’s book a clue? Did she pick the Priory as another place where she could study ley lines?

(edited by Stooperdale.3560)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Why would it seem weird for her to keep some of her things that hold stuff of importance (her first recollections of the entity she seems to have been fighting), and leave behind the things that aren’t of importance (a diary saying she won’t write anymore, and a hologram of old experiments she’s moved beyond)?

And that’s a good point to bring up. It may be she picked that place under the Priory to infiltrate them before she was an active threat. To “borrow” their public (and not public) books and items.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

So given points brought up in this other thread, mainly the apparent timeline of Scarlet’s life, it becomes apparent that her journal from Season 1 predates her going into the machine – as per my calculations given all current information, she had to enter the machine in 1324 AE, when she was 16 (and that she’s a Secondborn).

This is important, as it means Scarlet Briar still had a connection to the Dream when she first came into contact with the entity. Whether or not this entity is Mordremoth, and whether or not this entity is who messed with Aerin, it means that Scarlet – or Ceara at the time – was not akin to Soundless-ness.

Thus being separated from the Dream, or having her “barriers” in her mind broken down has absolutely nothing to do with the entity messing with her.

If the entity Scarlet dealt with is the same as the voice Aerin dealt with, then this means that Aerin, indeed, may not have been Soundless. Perhaps on the way to becoming such given the mantra found, but may not have been one yet. And in either case, if he was Soundless, it is irrelevant – maybe makes him more susceptible, but overall did not prevent him being messed with.

This is very important, because it means that whatever happened to them… the Dream isn’t a preventive measure.

The dream very well could have been the protective barrier that kept the entity from being as destructive as it was. I have my chickens fenced in, the foxes and raccoons are still there every night trying to get in. If I leave the fence open, they succeed and my chickens get eaten.

The same could be with the dream. As long as the dream is there, the target is safe. Once the dream is gone, then there is no protection and the intruder can gain it’s foothold.

This journal you are talking about, is this the OMADD journal?

(edited by DarcShriek.5829)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Yes, that journal is dated late 1321 to early 1323 (in the A Study in Scarlet instance); given Scarlet’s comment of turning 16 while Ceara, that means she had to be a Secondborn, which would by default place her becomign Scarlet to 1324 (not even 1325 due to Thaumanova and Steam creature incidents). So when she first recorded encountering the entity in her head was roughly 3 years prior to going into the machine.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Soundless & Mordremoth.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Yes, that journal is dated late 1321 to early 1323 (in the A Study in Scarlet instance); given Scarlet’s comment of turning 16 while Ceara, that means she had to be a Secondborn, which would by default place her becomign Scarlet to 1324 (not even 1325 due to Thaumanova and Steam creature incidents). So when she first recorded encountering the entity in her head was roughly 3 years prior to going into the machine.

Unless Scarlet was actually born in 1304. In this case, she would turn 16 in 1320. Personally, I think her timeline is messed up. It would be nice if someone could do something visual.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

I think Scarlet may have been a thirdborn actually. Because the Sylvari had a good bit established when she awoke apparently. Depending on the period between third and second generations, she could be either.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

What if sylvari die when touched by corruption because the Pale Tree is deliberately extinguishing them before it takes hold? That could explain why the soundless can survive the process.

Could be. Although we have little idea of how much control the Pale Tree has over Sylvari, surely if she could flip their switch there wouldn’t be too many Nightmare Court running around. Also why would she keep this a secret? Surely no one would hold it against her, killing someone who is corrupted is pretty much considered a mercy.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

@Shiren: Regarding the two phrases you’re referring to, I don’t think they actually disprove that Aerin is Soundless:

“Pale mother guide me” is a sylvari idiom, akin to the likes of “God help me” and “Heaven forbid” in Western cultures. People who do not believe in God will often let slip such idioms without it reflecting on their actual state of belief simply because it’s such a pervasive part of the culture – some think nothing of it, some will try to avoid it but may still let one slip when they aren’t paying attention due to being excited, frustrated, or frightened. Thus, Aerin could have said it in his excitement without it being reflective of actually wanting the Pale Tree’s guidance.

As for the other line – as you’ve mentioned, becoming Soundless by meditation is a constant battle, not a switch you can turn on or off, and even then, it’s not clear that becoming Soundless stops a sylvari from feeding their experiences back into the dream – it just means they’re filtering out anything coming back. Aerin’s statement about keeping a diary for those who don’t have access to the Dream could be an acknowledgement of just that – however hard he meditates, one way or another it’s likely that his experiences on the Sanctum are going to end up in the Dream. If anything, his keeping a journal for the sake of those who don’t access the Dream could indicate that, at the very least, he has a higher awareness of the existence of Soundless than most Dreamers.

@Konig Des Todes: I don’t think Scarlet first coming into contact with the entity while in the machine means the Dream isn’t a protection, since if I recall rightly, she lost her connection with the Dream at the same time. If anything, the timing seems to strengthen the connection – as soon as she lost the Dream, the Entity pounced.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: DorDor.8617

DorDor.8617

I think the connecting point between Aerin and Scarlet isn’t proximity to Mordy or being cut off from the Dream—I think it’s both.

Whether there is evidence that Aerin is Soundless or not, we know the devs wanted us to reach that conclusion, which means he probably was. We also know that his transformation only happened as he was travelling further west, as his dialogue during the Festival was inconsistent with the raving lunatic we encountered later. With Scarlet, we can assume that the experiment with the machine happened somewhere in asura territory, Rata Sum/Metrica Province, one of the westernmost points on the map. And we know that the machine cut her off from most/all outside influences, which probably includes the Dream.

It’s not the most complete theory in the world (it takes some assumption from Scarlet’s angle) but it does make some degree of sense. Getting cut off from the Dream makes you vulnerable, and getting closer to Mordremoth makes you a target.

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