Guild Wars 2

If anything, I feel like it’s re-establishing the state of affairs from when Jennah had that conversation with us, progress that was lost in the whole kerfluffle of S1 turning back the clock on all of the Personal Story’s developments… and hopefully it’s a more permanent solution this time. Previously we had Logan deciding he’d better protect his queen from the front lines; now we have him coming to terms with the fact that she doesn’t really need that protection for anything short of another Elder Dragon.

draxynnic.3719:

That’s pretty much exactly what Palpatine was doing, though. Palpatine was manipulating everyone, directly or indirectly, up to his death, and said death came about due to unpredictable events.

Maybe I’ve just never noticed it in Star Wars but he never really seemed to be that wide-spread and indirect in his manipulations. And honestly Jennah felt more Palpatine-like to me than Caudecus. Mind, Jennah is basically the “good guy” version of a Palpatine-like character. Manipulating for the good of the people rather than for the good of the self.

Finally reading through the rest of the thread:

Jaken.6801:

However who is Cin and why should I care about that scoundrel, who is clearly a bad guy? Is there any pay off to him?

Cin is a papermaker first met in the human noble storyline. He helped provide evidence to bring in Zamon. We later see him at Noble’s Folly as part of Faren’s Failed Flight Festival.

He is a scoundrel but a “good guy” scoundrel. His only real role is to add a hint of gray to the good guys, really.

Jaken.6801:

Anise was weird. Way to angry and cut-throat the whole time. Way to trigger happy. She never stroke me as someone who would loose her head so easily. Sure it was war, but I always thought of her being more reasonable and professional. She was like the Queen of Hearts… Wait a sec… Queen Jenna was agitated and told us about her pent up frustration and agression. Now Anise is very riled up. Maybe Anise is a Mesmer construct which channels Jennas emotions of some sort? Or Maybe there is a link? Something to think about…

Honestly, I think it’s the Livia theory. A “second Civil War” would spike a lot of hatred out of Livia, and it’s weird af that Livia was MIA unless she’s dead somehow between Sea of Sorrows and GW2. Livia was always someone who deeply loved her homeland and was willing to make major sacrifices for it, too, as well as being cold blooded.

Jaken.6801:

Caudecus did everything that harmed the humans in the past few years. Interesting, but I am curious what is his endgame was? Just the throne? World domination? If he is as cunning as he is discribed, it’s kinda weird to have him so oblivious to the overall danger beyond the human realm. Though he might have had just a one track mind over the years.

Well, he wanted the crown for sure, but he was also a major racist. I think his “end goal” was “human supremacy no matter the cost” – even temporarily working with non-humans (Inquest and centaurs).

But the “betrayal” of his family (read: his wife then daughter learning part of his true nature and disagreeing with him to the point of leaving) threw him off kilter.

As for Lazarus, my thoughts run to three possible conclusions. I think the topic of Lazarus needs its own thread. I, however, intend to go looking back through old interactions with and about Lazarus (particularly the Stronghold of the Faithful ending) to formalize my thoughts.

The lore is finally getting interesting again. Let’s keep it up Anet, please.

And drop the stupid Primordus versus Jormag. They deserve more than a shared plot or a silly fire v ice theme that’s a player bandwagon. Stop making bandwagon theories and hopes the canon – do not meet player expectations. Exceed them. Like you have here with Caudecus and Lazarus.

I also found Livia’s absence odd. She was true blue Shining Blade. I couldn’t imagine anything that would keep her away.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

draxynnic.3719:

That’s pretty much exactly what Palpatine was doing, though. Palpatine was manipulating everyone, directly or indirectly, up to his death, and said death came about due to unpredictable events.

Maybe I’ve just never noticed it in Star Wars but he never really seemed to be that wide-spread and indirect in his manipulations. And honestly Jennah felt more Palpatine-like to me than Caudecus. Mind, Jennah is basically the “good guy” version of a Palpatine-like character. Manipulating for the good of the people rather than for the good of the self.

Palpatine literally had both sides obeying his commands: the Trade Federation and later the Seperatists were obeying his orders as Darth Sidious, while the armed forces of the Republic were following his orders as Chancellor Palpatine. There are few times where things didn’t go exactly to his plan, but the whole period from Palpatine’s election to Chancellor to the end of RotS was basically Palpatine playing chess against himself, not letting either side win a decisive victory while progressively escalating the Clone Wars until he could get away with declaring himself Emperor.

He lost his direct control over both sides of the board when he destroyed the Seperatists and the Rebel Alliance rose, but he still manipulated the Rebels. For instance, he deliberately let the Alliance know the location of the second Death Star, anticipating that the Rebels would throw everything they had at it and could be destroyed. The one thing he hadn’t accounted for was the Rebels being able to recruit the Ewoks.

Caudecus, on the other hand, never managed to get control of both sides of the board – he was stuck at the point Palpatine was at during the Phantom Menace (which is to say, doing everything he could to discredit the current leader) – because unlike Chancellor Valorum, Jennah knew what Caudecus was trying to do and was able to fight back on the same level. While not a perfect analogy, the Krytan intrigue arc is essentially what could have happened in Star Wars if Chancellor Valorum had realised that it was Palpatine who was undermining him, but didn’t have enough proof to try him for treason.

I don’t think Anet is going to make the Taimi Ex Machina work again. It’s already been overused, and from a story-telling perspective, she deserves her grand plan to backfire harsh on her. For once, it would be refreshing to see that Taimi-tech is not the omnipotent solution to everything. Plus, the revelation that Lazarus is actually “Lazarus” hints towards an interesting twist in the dragon vs. dragon aspect of the story as well.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t get why there’s a Ministry to begin with, Kryta already has a Monarch.
Having two seperate governing bodies with their own armies leading a single nation is a recipe for disaster.

Logan answers this question in the Dead Sister storyline.

Basically, the Ministry existed for a while but never had much power – they were, it seems, a method for the royal family to know the problems of the whole nation easily. The Ministry gained power with Jennah’s father’s death, because it happened when Jennah was too young to take the throne without supervision. Ever since Jennah was officially crowned and was able to rule alone, the Ministry has simply refused to give up their power – no doubt in large due to Caudecus’ power hunger.

Similarly, it was this refusal to give up power, combined with the rising centaur threat (causing the Seraph to be thinned out), that gave birth to the Ministry Guard, who began as simply mercenaries hired independently by the Ministry – they united to form the Ministry Guard. No doubt the first mercenaries having been White Mantle agents hired by Caudecus and those loyal to him.

I see, interesting.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And drop the stupid Primordus versus Jormag. They deserve more than a shared plot or a silly fire v ice theme that’s a player bandwagon. Stop making bandwagon theories and hopes the canon – do not meet player expectations. Exceed them. Like you have here with Caudecus and Lazarus.

Almost certain there will be a wrench thrown in those plans. Betting 100g that Taimi’s Theory won’t pan out as planned, and something worse is going to come out of it which might be the premise of the next expansion, alongside whatever ‘Who is this Lazarus’ conundrum.

I do agree though, the lore is starting to pick up big time, we might hit on a real big reveal soon.

I definitely agree. I have a big feeling like Taimi’s plan is going to be the “Scarlet’s Breachmaker” event that begins the next expansion. Not sure exactly how, perhaps losing 2 more dragons leads to a huge amount of magic that the world wasn’t prepared for, or if it only just kittenes them off. Or nothing works and something completely unexpected occurs. Perhaps the magic all gets channeled into fake-Lazarus?

Well, some people have been asking for one of Taimi’s plans to crash and burn for a while, so she can learn some humility. Considering how many things in the storyline have happened because people were asking for it to happen (getting to kill Trahearne, for instance), I could see it happening. Possibly as the “destruction of the Pact Fleet” moment for the next expansion…

All this episode made me realize that i am tired of the dragons plotlines.
This episode was everyone favourite for a reason.
we have to face something we know and we have interaction with. Caudecus as a villain is something we can understand and talk about, the npc had interaction with us, his minions had motives and speak, and even turncloack at the end (vallette for example), we saw his personal human grudge against his daughter and wife. we experienced some plans and politic games and so on.
While the dragons on the other end they are just evil, we can interact only with their evil brainless minion, their plan is just to consume magic, destroy and corrupt.
we don’t talk to the dragons, they don’t have emotions they are not an evil we can relate too or understand, we don’t even know their actual nature. it’s boring! They are just a general evil with no personality much like a cosmic disaster, yes we have to deal with them otherwise extintion, it’s all action and no story.

So I guess my conclusion is I want to see more of this last episodes and less fight the evil because it’s evil. If anything please arenanet make this remaining dragon more interesting, give them personalities, allow us to interact with them, answer to some question as why they do what they do and what they want to achieve. Dragons in this game remaind me a little of the reaper menace in Mass Effect, but less effective because while the reaper menace was something unknown and we discover a little by little about the cycles, about the technologies about the fact that all the reaping is programmed eons ahead, that there was a reason for the reaping and so on. Please give us some lore for the dragons but something consistent otherwise I’m happy to get over with and hope taimi’s plan will work so there will be so much less dragons to take care left

This episode wasn’t my favorite so it isn’t everyone’s. But I favor the dragon plot anyway. I don’t see Taino being corrupted but I do see her dying or potentially unintentionally empowering the dragons or attracting the attention of some other sinister being. They’ve avoided revisiting or focusing on her the past few episodes so I definitely think they’re building up to something significant. I’m still hoping for a discovery of rata novus though.

Shiren.9532:

If Lazarus isn’t the real Lazarus, who is he? Obviously someone really powerful but the reveal of the Horcrux plot really makes that whole scenario confusing. Could it be Palawa Joko? I really don’t know who would disguise themselves as mursaat to fool the play protagonist to gain access to the dragon.

In hindsight, Palawa Joko seems to be a definite possibility.

This episode seems pretty confident that Lazarus is an impostor. People have pointed out that the logic doesn’t necessarily follow, but it seems unlikely they’d end the episode with this revelation as a cliffhanger if they didn’t mean it to be true.

“He’s touched death, Commander, and now he’s back… There’s something… The necromancer in me wants to find out more.
And…who knows?
There’s something about him… Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.”
- Marjory Delaqua, Dragon Vigil

She’s basing her feelings off the assumption that he is a Mursaat back from the dead, but we know he probably isn’t now. That means he’s setting off her Necromancer sense for completely different reasons than “he just came back from the dead.” Palawa Joko, however, is just undead. That would be a reason he’s making her feel weird, and she’s looking in the complete wrong direction for an explanation.

Lazarus has insisted he has good intentions, and if he’s Palawa Joko, then I don’t think he’s entirely lying.
“The human seat of power and its current monarch are inconsequential. We are destined to face more virtuous pursuits.
My true believers, you’re welcome to seek shelter in my light. To those who doubt… you’re welcome to burn.”
-Lazarus, Confessor’s Stronghold

“The salvation of this world.
The White Mantle is splintering. Those who follow Caudecus, and those loyal to me.
I can make them a force for good; another spear in an army against the dragons.”
-Lazarus, Dragon Vigil

Palawa Joko is an evil tyrant, but a competent one. He lost the first time around because he outran his supply lines, so his second conquest was calculated and made sure to keep his troops supported. He also gave support to anyone willing to betray their comrades for his gifts (which also lines up nicely with that second line). He helped us in GW1 because Nightfall wouldn’t have been good for him either.

He’s not going to want Kryta wiped out by Elder Dragons, because those Elder Dragons will be his problem one day too. With Kralkatorrik likely on his border, he may be having trouble and looking to recruit some dragon slayers.

Obviously this is all circumstantial, I’m not setting out to prove Lazarus’ identity, but it definitely works with Palawa Joko in this place.

Canach describes the person as “Deceptive, tactical, and powerful. Not the greatest combination.” This can describe many villains, and Palawa Joko is certainly not ruled out by it.

“I can make them a force for good; another spear in an army against the dragons.”
-Lazarus, Dragon Vigil

While the White Mantle are no strangers to spears, neither would anyone from Elona. He could have said this instinctively, and it wouldn’t stand out to us. Palawa Joko even has ex-Sunspears in his army.

The biggest question would be, why would he impersonate Lazarus? While he probably wouldn’t be welcomed himself, choosing another suspicious character doesn’t seem smart. On the other hand, that could exactly be his plan. Impersonate someone similar enough to himself that he won’t act too out of character, but one that can make up just enough of an excuse for us to not kill on sight.

Jokubas.4265:

This episode seems pretty confident that Lazarus is an impostor. People have pointed out that the logic doesn’t necessarily follow, but it seems unlikely they’d end the episode with this revelation as a cliffhanger if they didn’t mean it to be true.

There’s plenty of ways to utilize the revelation with it being false.

For example, using the “fake Lazarus” is a plot that further pulls the Commander into distrust of Lazarus, preventing Lazarus – real or not – from becoming an ally. This not only pulls Lazarus further into the realm of a villain to confront later (such as at the end of Season 3 perhaps), but if “Lazarus” has managed to gain Marjory’s support, this further fractures Dragon’s Watch which seems to be an intended theme for Season 3 – especially with The Regrown Sword instance that got added as current events, and the line within: “But the harder the hero fought, the further the world seemed to tumble away.”

The Pact Commander’s world is tumbling away, not just in the literal sense of Tyria succumbing to the overflow of magic, but losing their allies (Dragon’s Watch).

We could easily turn into a situation where Marjory gets “converted” and follows the real Lazarus who truly has turned good, but the Pact Commander is in denial of such due to Bauer’s double-or-triple agent actions, and we end up fighting (and maybe even personally killing) Marjory.

Or it could go that we begin a conflict with a real Lazarus, and Kasmeer comes in with her lie detecting ability and sets things straight – whether that means two Lazarus’s, Lazarus isn’t really good, or whathaveyou.

1)Movement of magic after morde die, goes to bloodstone.
2)Taimi watch egg chamber, she change topic when asked if she have ascces to all tarir survilance.
3)Commander have vision about tarir, she don’t inform. Dragon vigil she silent.
4)Bloodstone explosion could disrupt swallowing magic torward north, there is no that orange surge torward jormag.
5)Primordus/champion move between morde/kralka reducing magic for kralka.Maybe lured by gleam.
6)Marjory can be reason to unite team – no order from boss, but will to save – especialy Braham he will rush now w/o listening to commander, cuz last time his slow decisions resulted in death of Eir. He won’t let Marjory die like com let Eir. That reasoning could appear.
7)Marjory baited with necromancy and Marjory as bait for her squad, where attention goes – it could be plot of Joko and torward Crystal Desert.

Bauer destroyed bloodstone, he can be living member of Ossa familiy on Joko orders. When he died he was rised as undead, as all Ossa. Changed name to Blaine and stay in well, with toe stole by rat. Conspiracy of Dunces is how is called achiv related to his diary, but he could actualy more aware of things.