Guild Wars 2

In the north-east part of Mount Maelstrom (the 60-70 zone before Straits of Devastation) there is a dungeon called the Crucible of Eternity, it is an inquest dungeon, the entrance to which is the asura gate located in the middle of a big hexagon. At each corner of the hexagon there is a “site”. “Site red” for example.

In site red, there if fire and brimstone. This obviously represents Primordus
Following the same example we have sites with bones in it, ice in it and crystal in it. Obviously representing Zaithan, Jormag and Kraalkatorik. The other 2 sites however, are interesting. The 5th one is called “Site Blue (under construction”, it represent the un-named underwater dragon. The 6th one looks awfully lot like the sylvari starting area. Now, this could be a red herring, or we could ask “how would the inquest know”? But this seems to tell us:1. There are 6 elder dragons
2. The Pale Tree is an elder dragon.

Discuss.

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

What about the sylvari then? Are they just minions akin to icebrood, branded, destroyers and risen?

They are a new race that the Pale Tree tricked them into believing they are they sons and daugthers and have them spread her influence to other races of tyria, by making them help others.

Then… with that theory in mind… Nightmare Courties, got their point in spreading the nighmtare. And as far as we know, there are other Trees, not influenced by Ventari’s Teachings (Sylvari personal Story). Also when you walk inside Black Citadel, some charr speaks about Sylvari being a new race, which spreads like weed, and surely they will took the world for themselves with such rapid growth.

Yes, the Nightmare Court are doing the right thing, without knowing, even tough they too are evil and wish to corrupt the dream.

Also the Ventari’s Stone Tablet is a way to show that they are a noble race (which they are, except their leader).

Also, the Pale Tree Seed does not show up when the Dragon’s Rise.

The Dragon’s Rise when the seed is formed and ready to bloom. (We got it wrong all along).

i really doubt the Mother Tree is an evil entity.
because she is weak. She really is if you hear the story of how she crafted a sword and it took away alot of her spirit energy to make just one weapon you would understand she is weak.
I do think though that just like the dragons were waken up in the past the Sylvaris used to be in the past minions of a 6th dragon that may have died last time they rised.

It’s more likely that the Pale Tree is a lieutenant of the sixth Elder Dragon.

A lieutenant that got swayed away from an evil nature when it was still a sapling, under the guidance of the tablet’s teachings. This would also explain the Nightmare, and how it’s possibly the true ‘dream’ of the Sylvari. The Nightmare Court are trying to reinstate the true nature of the Pale Tree, even if they don’t completely understand it yet.

its more likely to me that the nightmare court are controled by the sixth dragon if he exists

Sorry to thwart your nice theory, but it seems you have forgotten all knowledge from GW1. The seed of the Pale Tree was planted by Ronan and Ventari. The latter was able to live longer, and therefore had more time to create the “tablets”, which now are known only as coming from Ventari, though Ronan participated in its creation, in a way.

Moreover, according to the novel “Edge of Destiny” story, there was no such thing as a “Pale Tree” before. The dragons were there long ago before anyone else, feeded themselves to the brim on existing life until there was so little left that they went satisfied into a deep slumber.
The source of this information is very reliable. It comes from Glint himself. He was a former servant of Kralkatorrik.

As to the a sixth symbol, it is quite possible that there is another dragon yet to be revealed. Tyria is after all only one continent, and the world includes so far Cantha and Elona.
My guess is that, eventually, communication with Cantha will become possible, as will it be with Elona. The only small thing to do is kill an Elder Dragon … but that’s what heroes are for

tjafaas, you need to update your gw lore, the seed is confirmed to show up everytime the dragons rise

HERO are those all just your ideas about the story of the pale tree in GW2 or are you basing it on some other source? I’ve never seen anything from ANET that would suggest this version of events. I don’t believe that the pale tree is a dragon. It could be that the pale tree is like Glint….one who has turned against her master. Then it would make sense that she’s creating sylvari to help defeat the dragons including her own master.

this is just a far fetched and outlandish theory

but maybe there’s a secret elder dragon that’s happy and full of goodness and plants seeds with the sylvari/plant creatures being it’s minions?

or maybe that dragon in the sylvari starter zone is somehow related to our mysterious green elder dragon?

Pale Tree is Elder Dragon Champion, The ElderDragon might be in the Echovald Forest?

The Sylvari (An d the Pale Tree spirit)are corrupted by Ventari, the nightmare court are the true Sylvari

I always speculated there could be a sixth and final dragon, west of Maguuma, where Utopia was supposed to happen. A dragon with jungle and time themes. So I love this (not the sylvari-are-his-minions theory, though).

So yeah, I didn’t pay enough attention to the Crucible of Eternity, I just thought it was elements or something, didn’t relate it to their dragon research.

… You guys are insane.

Let’s look at this from a gameplay perspective. ANet creates this awesome game. ANet creates this huuuuuuuge theme about cooperation and working together.

“Oh by the way one race are the badguys.”

… Really? That’s just… kind of… dumb.

Gwaiyn.4395:

this is just a far fetched and outlandish theory

but maybe there’s a secret elder dragon that’s happy and full of goodness and plants seeds with the sylvari/plant creatures being it’s minions?

or maybe that dragon in the sylvari starter zone is somehow related to our mysterious green elder dragon?

the sylvari in the starter zone apears later on at a life quest

That’s not a Sylvari though.

Your Dream was warning you about the dragon you would have to fight and kill.

HERO.2057:

tjafaas, you need to update your gw lore, the seed is confirmed to show up everytime the dragons rise

Please, do tell me your source.

Anyway, I totally agree with Gwaiyn. Putting the Sylvari as “minions”, either good or bad, is quite outlandish imo.

We know that the Pale Tree isnt unique cause we have at least one case of a Sylvari not born of the Pale Tree but from another somewhere. We also know the Sylvari definately come from the Pale Tree cause we see the pods they are born from.

Short answer is that the Pale Tree isnt a dragon. It may be linked to a dragon but its not one itself. Perhaps the most telling fact is unlike every other ED we know there is nothing dragonlike about its shape, from or nature. When all is said and done all the other EDs are superpowered giant lizards, literally.

At most the Pale Tree may have been intended as a Dragon Champion.

Note that the Inquest could be looking into the power behind the EDs rather than the EDs themselves. This may or may not mean there is a sixth elder Dragon but at this stage I dont think we have any solid evidence.

tjafaas.3726:

HERO.2057:

tjafaas, you need to update your gw lore, the seed is confirmed to show up everytime the dragons rise

Please, do tell me your source.

Anyway, I totally agree with Gwaiyn. Putting the Sylvari as “minions”, either good or bad, is quite outlandish imo.

heres a video about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWtFf7UbtAQ&feature=relmfu

SunRain.8972:

tjafaas.3726:

HERO.2057:

tjafaas, you need to update your gw lore, the seed is confirmed to show up everytime the dragons rise

Please, do tell me your source.

Anyway, I totally agree with Gwaiyn. Putting the Sylvari as “minions”, either good or bad, is quite outlandish imo.

heres a video about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWtFf7UbtAQ&feature=relmfu

Did you miss the part where Wooden Potatoes said it was speculation. Also Im yet to see confirmation in any format from Arenanet that states that the Pale Tree appears every time the dragons rise. Thats as far as I know just a theory.

Part of the ealry personal story line for me was getting “proof” that Elder Dragons Consumes magic for sustenance (also further collaborated by the Mouth of Zhaitan) story chapter.

Admittedly I have not spent a lot of time around the Sylvari area, but I have not seen any indication of this in relation to the Pale Tree which in turn would indicate that the Pale Tree is not an Elder Dragon.

edited for clarification

Also, just to point out, even the idea that “The Pale Tree raised all these Sylvari for some ulterior motive that we don’t know yet” flies in the face of everything we know about Elder Dragons.

They don’t plan. They don’t scheme. They don’t manipulate. They just fly off, destroying everything in their path, and eating everything that they don’t break.

The ONLY time we hear of a dragon scheming at all, is actually a result of the dragon’s powerful minions being told “Go do this” and the minion comes up with their own plan to get the desired result.

None of these plans are the result of Zhaitan’s direct intervention. He gives his minions free reign and THEY plan while he goes off and eats something.

Illushia.3721:

Also, just to point out, even the idea that “The Pale Tree raised all these Sylvari for some ulterior motive that we don’t know yet” flies in the face of everything we know about Elder Dragons.

They don’t plan. They don’t scheme. They don’t manipulate. They just fly off, destroying everything in their path, and eating everything that they don’t break.

The ONLY time we hear of a dragon scheming at all, is actually a result of the dragon’s powerful minions being told “Go do this” and the minion comes up with their own plan to get the desired result.

None of these plans are the result of Zhaitan’s direct intervention. He gives his minions free reign and THEY plan while he goes off and eats something.

goes off and eats something? i want to be a dragon now.

Dragon or not one thing is certain, The Sylvari are good because we can play them. So even going with the ED theory there are a variety of explanations as to why they might be good, a rogue lieutenant, corrupted for good, perhaps even an elder dragon that doesn’t want to destroy the world (there are an unknown number, whose to say they all have to be bad?). There is a lot of evidence however that connects them to the dragons. If the elder dragons are meant to represent natural forces in the world, a tsunami for example, you deal with it you can’t stop it and it does not think it just acts, then why can’t there be a force, like in nature, that is there to regrow from the destruction?

Trock Bronze.9625:

Dragon or not one thing is certain, The Sylvari are good because we can play them. So even going with the ED theory there are a variety of explanations as to why they might be good, a rogue lieutenant, corrupted for good, perhaps even an elder dragon that doesn’t want to destroy the world (there are an unknown number, whose to say they all have to be bad?). There is a lot of evidence however that connects them to the dragons. If the elder dragons are meant to represent natural forces in the world, a tsunami for example, you deal with it you can’t stop it and it does not think it just acts, then why can’t there be a force, like in nature, that is there to regrow from the destruction?

rogue lieutenant

All the ED lieutenants are powered by the dragons themselves, and are essentially extensions of the dragon themselves. I’m not sure they could even go rogue, and if they did, I imagine the Elder Dragon could just pull the plug. “WHOOPS NO MORE POWER.”

corrupted for good

Wouldn’t that be purified? Besides, the Sylvari show no signs of any kind of alteration by a dragon, corruption or not. The dragon corruption is distinctive, if nothing else.

perhaps even an elder dragon that doesn’t want to destroy the world (there are an unknown number, whose to say they all have to be bad?)

Except everything we know about Elder Dragons, and everything ANet has ever said about Elder Dragons, points out that they are in fact bent on the destruction and cleansing of anything that isn’t them or their minions, even each other. If left to their own devices they would fight until they’ve eaten everything on the planet, up to and including each other.

There is a lot of evidence however that connects them to the dragons.

Liiiike… what? Go on. I’m listening. Got anything that isn’t speculation?

… no?

Well, let me know if you find anything.

If the elder dragons are meant to represent natural forces in the world, a tsunami for example, you deal with it you can’t stop it and it does not think it just acts, then why can’t there be a force, like in nature, that is there to regrow from the destruction?

Because the Elder Dragons likened to destructive forces of nature. They’re -not- forces of nature. They’re not natural parts of the cycle of life and death.

ANet has never said they’re forces of nature, only that they ACT like them inasmuch as they do not think, they just do, and whenever they -do-, things die.

Anet probably meant the force of nature comment in terms of their power. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t stick around if a hurricane was coming.

Glint was an ED Lt. that went rouge. Kralkotorak didn’t or couldn’t pull the plug on her power. Instead as soon as he rose he flew to the crystal desert and killed her. That is how the whole crystal scar was formed. The land under his flight path became corrupted and the creatures became the branded.

I am all for the idea of the PC Sylvari Pale Tree being a ED Lt. that was purified by Ventari and his teachings. Its sort of the nature vs. nurture aspect of things. It also explains the existence of other Pale Trees and the nightmare court quite nicely.

I had completely forgotten about Glint.

And I’m from Louisiana. Shove a hurricane down our throats. We’ll just keep coming back. >>

Well, at least we can see that if a lieutenant DOES go rogue, that Elder Dragon definitely drops a bus or two on them just to be sure.

The pale tree is not a dragon. That is pretty clear.
Dragons apparently eat magic. The pale tree certainly does not. Someone would have noticed.

Pale tree being a champion that was “corrupted” to the side of good.. now that on the other hand has merit. The tablet and her fascination with it, would have similar themes to Glint and her breaking free. The nature of Sylvari creation and similarity to humans phenotype. Pulls human spirits from the Mist(Dream) and “corrupts” them, they are reborn as Sylvari, perhaps? Would explain the resistance to dragon corruption.

Sylvari do all have free will. Not just the Nightmare court, which is a cult. Even normal Sylvari are totally free to reject the tablet, and go their own way. Pale tree herself says this in game, and many random locals if you talk to them, mention they intend to do just this. Albeit, they agree the Nightmare court are jerks.

It is my understanding later missions in game, heavily imply dragons are in fact quite intelligent. They are not bestial forces of nature.

Making the sword took a lot of power. This is a question of the nature of power. It was hard for her to create a weapon. Its easy for her to create life on the other hand.

It is my understanding later missions in game, heavily imply dragons are in fact quite intelligent. They are not bestial forces of nature.

I’ve seen conflicting. Because Zhaitan doesn’t seem to have any sort of plan. He hangs out in Orr because there’s magic items all over the place(Orr used magic for EVERYTHING) for him to eat. He sends minions out to do everything, but these minions don’t really seem directly guided by him. They spout “THE WILL OF ZHAITAN” and all, but when you really get down to it, the greatly built up ‘will of Zhaitan’ seems to be… “Go out and kill things with my blessing”.

Not exactly all that devious, is it?

Just to ask, in factions, we learn all about the Jade Wind being powerful magic given by dwayna and stolen by shiro, but we also know that magic cant just go away… and then there are the Saltspray Dragons, could it, maybe, just maybe be that either the deep sea or a 6th or even 7th ED is down there?

Most people are reasonably certain that there’s an underwater/deep sea dragon somewhere.

Illushia- Perhaps not all my points were well worded or formed but I believe you got the jist of what I meant? I’m trying to discuss the idea not argue one side or the other, some of that is speculation based on observation, not fact given by A-net. ‘corruption’ for good, perhaps not the best wording.

Anyway, have you done the Infinity Coil? I have yet to do the dungeon but I am very curious as to why they have the ‘essence’ of each dragon at each point. Two of course being unclear, the blue and green, under construction and plant life. That however strongly hints at Sylvari, I mean what comes to mind immediately in this game when you mention plant life?

It’s also said there is more then one tree, and that they appear when the dragons do, as do all dragons awake around the same time. Force of Tyria or Dragon opposed to the others, it seems the over all purpose may possibly be this force of renewal or opposition to the dragons specifically. Now you mention that all we have ever been told is that they want to cleanse the world of everything but themselves, even kill each other, while we don’t know the motives of this hypothetical force of nature(elder dragon) is not that exactly what the sylvari are being born to do? the very essence of what they learn before exiting the dream is that the dragons need to be killed. Now if your a dragon that wants the other dragons gone and you tell everyone you create that dragons are bad, would you then make sure to look like a dragon? Would you show yourself? The elder dragons are meant to not care, like a volcano, but there are acceptations to everything from time to time. It’s all just speculation and theory crafting, interesting if true but not necessarily grounded in many facts, it could work, but it may never happen. Again I am more on the side of it being some force of Tyria then a dragon.

But honestly what is the origin of the elder dragons? What is the creation story of this world, this universe? I do not know. I assume the dragons did not have a han in creating anything, but then why are they here? What made them? There are gods, obviously, so which god or force decided such terribly destructive, world ending creations were needed? That might help answer some questions.

edit: I just saw you sig, awesome, one of the best games I have ever played and one of the best units in the game.

I just feel like this speculation isn’t grounded in anything but someone’s pet theory.

There’s been no proof in any conclusive fashion presented anywhere whatsoever to support this theory. At all.

In science they call it a dead end. In lore it’s called “Making up stuff to talk about”.

We’re really not helping anyone by discussing it. If anything you’re giving people the wrong idea that somehow the Sylvari are connected to the dragons. When they aren’t.

The Pale Tree didn’t suddenly appear when the dragons did. The Tree itself is over 200 years old. The Sylvari grew from pods that were already present on the tree. Maybe the Dream itself is somehow like the Dream of Warcraft lore- it’s some kind of ‘master plan’ of Tyria, with it’s own defensive systems.

Maybe the Sylvari are the Earthen of Tyria, a living defensive weapon.

I just made up a theory out of nothing too. =|

I just see no merit in continuing this discussion unless we get something that actually points at them being Dragon-related.

Right now all we have are “They want to kill the dragons” and “They showed up at mostly the same time” which isn’t really true.

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

moonslightv.6704:

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

“Let’s completely ruin a race for a plot twist that adds nothing to the story and sounds incredibly contrived.”

Illushia.3721:

moonslightv.6704:

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

“Let’s completely ruin a race for a plot twist that adds nothing to the story and sounds incredibly contrived.”

The Sylvari would NOT be ruined. They would still be who they are/were but would have been “duped” into believing the Pale Tree was for the greater good. There are ways to work in the Sylvari and Nightmare Court into that plot twist without ruining them you know.

Illushia.3721:

Right now all we have are “They want to kill the dragons” and “They showed up at mostly the same time” which isn’t really true.

Lets go over what relates them then. Any of these things could be coincidence but regardless there is enough there to at least make you think about it.
-The trees show up around the same time as the dragons. So the seed was around 200 years ago, but only 25 years ago did it grow fruit, just in time to get behind everyone else to do something about the dragons.

-The sylvari have a natural desire, born of the dream, to defeat the dragons. The nightmare court however provides a different view, just like every race has those who do not see eye to eye on the subject.

-The pale tree has a similar energy signature(or something to this effect) as the magic as the dragons.

-Dragon lieutenants or champions do not need to look like dragons.

-Dragon minions can not be affected by each others magic, undead can not become branded for example. The sylvari can not be altered this way either.

-Something very curious are the 6 points in the Infinity Coil(something you have not addressed and I would love to know what is mentioned of this in the dungeon), there you have a room for each known dragon, an unfinished blue room likely for an underwater dragon, and last a green room full of plant life similar to the sylvari, indicating at the very least a dragon of plant life exists.

-Now elder dragon motives are usually not involved in much thought, they are not stupid, but they are like a disaster, a devastating force, it just happens. They wish to consume everything, even each other. This point is one I would say can be both for and against the sylvari in regards to the theory here. On one hand they are looking to take out the other dragons, as will the dragons look to take out each other eventually too. I would argue as well that an acceptation could be made for a single dragon to not be such a devastating force. However it’s clear the Sylvari and pale tree do not act like your average dragon and minions in that regard.

-It has been proven that lieutenants can go against their masters and are more intelligent in how they think then the elder dragons often are. Glint did this, why could the pale tree be something similar?

edit: and something else over looked that you and in fact no one has answered yet. What is the creation story of Tyria and the universe in this game? What made the dragons? What purpose did the universe have for them? in a game like this very little is left to being ‘it just happened’.

secondary edit: I do not agree with the ideas put up and agreed upon by moonslightv.6704, HERO.2057. That is too far and simply not going to happen. You can play a Sylvari, your race will not be made out to be evil. The tree has to be something that opposes the dragons, even if its related to them.

moonslightv.6704:

Illushia.3721:

moonslightv.6704:

HERO.2057:

Pale Tree is not strong enough to defeat the other 5 dragons so she is using us when we finally defeat the dragons she will rise as the most strong powerfull dragon ever.

The Pale Tree was the most powerfull evil creature ever, all the gods banded together and created 5 mystical creatures that as long as they lived the Pale Tree would not be able to powerfull enough to create any damage.

The Pale Tree saw in tyrian creatures the perfect ally to try to destroy the dragons and unleash her, so she pretends to be nice all along, after we destroy all the dragons she will reveal herself and destroy anything that does not bound to her power and will.

Tyrians will learn the horryfing truth that the dragons weren’t trying to destroy tyria, they were trying to destroy the Pale Tree all along and since we allied with her, they took us for enemies, this is all a big misunderstood.

We now are at the edge of the cliff, and when things are about to end for humanity, the six return and give us for a brief moment all the magic we could ever ask for and together we shall destroy the imprison the Pale Tree, then the six remove our powers and we move one.

This is a VERY good plot device and I sure wouldn’t have saw this at all. How shocking would this be if say, within a few years after a few expansions that the Pale Tree is revealed as the TRUE big bad guy and we just destroyed all the dragons who were suppose to keep her in check? Very cool theory…

“Let’s completely ruin a race for a plot twist that adds nothing to the story and sounds incredibly contrived.”

The Sylvari would NOT be ruined. They would still be who they are/were but would have been “duped” into believing the Pale Tree was for the greater good. There are ways to work in the Sylvari and Nightmare Court into that plot twist without ruining them you know.

Having the Pale Tree turn out being evil would absolutely gut the Sylvari and everything they stand for. The Ventari Tablet, the Grove, the Dream, their weapons and armor, their home, everything gone.

For what? A cliche plot twist.

I think the idea that the Pale Tree or the Sylvari are Elder Dragon pawns or an Elder Dragon themselves somehow is just silly.

Maybe they’re related. Maybe they’re somehow connected. If they are, I’d rather them be some kind of planetary defense system like the Earthen than “Oh we were the bad guys and now we’re good guys”.

Here is something you guys probably didn’t think of about the 6th “Nature” chamber.

When the Sylvari first came into the world the Asura experimented on one of them till they realized he wasn’t a normal plant creature of the jungle.
So maybe the Inquest is was just continuing that?

Lolz @Hero

Your theory is too far-fetched.

First off, non-lore wise, we are playing a sylvari born from a Pale Tree, being guided by a ‘mother’. The playable sylvari can not be part of one of the ED, a commander, a lt., or the ED itself.

Secondly, lore wise, it is a known fact that there are more than one Pale Tree. Two if you want to be really exact, the playable sylvari’s pale tree and the pale tree located somewhere west of asuran zones.

The theory that the pale tree or the sylvari are minions created by or manipulated by the 6th Elder Dragon can only fly if and only if that 2nd pale tree is the corrupted one / created one, and all the sylvari born from it. It will never be the pale tree the playable sylvari are from.

You could also say that the dream is a by-product of the 6th ED, I’ll give you that. There is something mysterious with the dream, and people splitting from the established norm like the nightmare court, doesn’t do it for mere “I want to be a hero” reasons, something prompted them to do that.

But saying that the pale tree itself and the sylvari born from it, is the ED or whatever minion of the ED can not be possible. Otherwise, the other races will be forced to kill the pale tree of the playable sylvari.

Ok fine, they can do it. Probably in the future, the other pale trees will be the new playable sylvari, and the remaining sylvari will be some sort of ‘ancient’ sylvari. Granted. But going technical here again, you’re going to ditch a lot of zones, quests, and what not just to switch from one pale tree to another pale tree as the source of the sylvari race.

tjafaas.3726:

The source of this information is very reliable. It comes from Glint himself. He was a former servant of Kralkatorrik.

Glint was never reliable. She told us her own version of history. She lied to us for her own benefit. Glint was a dragon that believes in “result is all that matters, to hell with the means”. All she wanted was to create heroes that will have a chance in defeating her former master – which she knew very well, once he wakes up, she’s the first objective. And that’s what Kralkatorrik exactly did, kill her.

There is something mysterious with the dream, and people splitting from the established norm like the nightmare court, doesn’t do it for mere “I want to be a hero” reasons, something prompted them to do that.

That was actually already covered in detail. One of the secondborn Sylvari became jealous and disillusioned after the death of one of the other Sylvari, and essentially began the Nightmare Court for revenge.

Illushia.3721:

There is something mysterious with the dream, and people splitting from the established norm like the nightmare court, doesn’t do it for mere “I want to be a hero” reasons, something prompted them to do that.

That was actually already covered in detail. One of the secondborn Sylvari became jealous and disillusioned after the death of one of the other Sylvari, and essentially began the Nightmare Court for revenge.

Yes, but still I doubt it all just stem from that. You know, “whispers”. “Invisible hands” guiding you and me. And if you think about it, the sylvari race refuses to believe in gods and things they can not prove. They’re a race of “to see is to believe”, which makes them easier to manipulate and deceive.

Remember, on the planet Tyria, the existence of gods is a fact, only the sylvari refuses because they have yet to see and experience that they do exist. I wouldn’t be surprise if some dragon whispered to some of these sylvari. They want destruction and domination, minions, this method of attack could be the style and essence of this dragon – probably the 6th indeed.

But hey, just keeping the ideas flowing. I don’t necessarily believe that it is the case. It’s a possibility however.

We know for a fact that the Nightmare exists separate from the Nightmare Court.

The Court are it’s champions. They didn’t create it. It already existed as a corruptive facet of the Dream.

He simply created the Court to champion something he had already found.

Something to consider regarding the nature of, well, nature. Often it is seen as having two sides to it; a nurturing side and a ravaging side. On one side, you have things like growth and things alive (the idea of the Pale Tree as the Mother Tree fits with this side). On the other side, you have what nature can do to other things – roots and vines taking over and tearing down buildings, predator hunting prey, etc.

It would seem more likely that there is a 6th Dragon that is related to nature, but it is the opposing force to what the Pale Tree represents in nature. In other words, balance.

That 6th area could just be remnants from when the Inquest were studying the Sylvari. Wanted to keep them in a ‘home-like’ environment or something, maybe?

The Pale Tree being a rouge champion of a “nature dragon” seems to make much more sense than the theory of her being an evil entity from gameplay point of view. As much as some may love conspiracy theories, such plot twist will no doubt butcher the lore from inside out when one of the playable race’s “ruler” is actually evil.