Guild Wars 2

Im working on something I cannot divulge. But I need the entire history surrounding the Norn’s Fight with Jormag that drove them out of the Northern Shiverpeaks. If anyone can help me please do so. I will be actively giving rep to any that help.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jormag. It pretty much tells everything you need to know. If you have any more questions after reading that I’m sure there’s plenty we can all share with you.

Cheerio

The only thing that comes to mind that the above link doesn’t talk about would be the possibility that Aesgir had an ancient jotun scroll with information on the Elder Dragons when he went south. (from this gal )

Nice find Konig.

Yes the wiki does not have enough. I meant to mention that sorry.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asgeir and this talks about the scroll as well.

I really need more though. I dont have enough info on the Encounter that drove them out. Where did Jormag strike first, then second, then third, etc. Who were the mightiest Norn Champions that tried to kill Jormag but couldn’t. What gave them the idea of using that scroll in the first place. These are just a few of the things I need to know. Any Devs wanna help that would be awesome.

What was the Final Battle like? How did it feel when Jormag awakened? What was the weather like? etc. I need alot more info like I said lol.

I found this http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/guild-wars-insider-interview-ree-soesbee/5/
Still not enough info…….. >_>

“GWI: Mr. Agony also had a question. This will be the last one before we wrap up. Can you tell us about the Norn exodus and how exactly the Spirits of the Wild were involved?

Ree: Absolutely. Jormag arrived far north of the Norn and started his way down. So the Norn had some preparation that there was something awful going on and that it was coming their way. A lot of their great heroes went to go fight it and didn’t come back. Hero after hero was going and dying. The Spirits of the Wild are very invested in the Norn, more than the Human gods even. I think they have more of a one on one relationship, where as Melandru has many worshipers, many priests – the church of Melandru that is. The Spirit of Wolf feels a kinship with you because you have the Spirit of Wolf in you. So when you call on him, he gives you his wisdom. Its a little more personal and a little less organized. So when Wolf’s hero dies, Wolf knows it, Wolf feels it. When an entire swath of Owl shaman are wiped out, Owl feels that pain in a very keen sense like its children are dying. So when those spirits looked and saw that not only their favored heroes of the Norn race, but the race was really on the verge of wiping itself out, they know the Norn are not going to flee. The Norn are just by nature not going to turn away from this challenge, because they feel like someone is going to take it down. One of us is going to be able to do it. And the moment that the Spirits realized that, that the hero is not here yet or not ready yet, the Spirits kinda have to step in or all the Norn will fall.

And so the Spirits, several of them – four of them – Snow Leopard, Raven, Wolf and Bear, said “We will lead them south to a place where they can grow strong again. Where a hero will rise among them and come and lead them against Jormag.” Some of the spirits who had taken the most damage or who was most suited to hold back Jormag, such as Owl, said “We’ll stay behind and we’ll do what we can here.”
When those spirits weren’t heard from again, it became pretty clear that they were destroyed or otherwise taken out by the dragon.

The happiness in that story is that the Norn firmly believe a hero will come. And the Spirits of the Wild that have lead them to the south and established Hoelbrak where they can learn and train, and they believe it to."

that link just went in the library. nice

Ok I have some more links to go through.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn_exodus
http://www.ign.com/wikis/guild-wars-2/Jormag
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Owl_Spirit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Spirits%27s_Hallow
http://www.arena.net/blog/a-spirit-of-legend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Sons_of_Svanir
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirits_of_the_Wild
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline
http://www.arena.net/blog/legend-and-legacy-of-the-norn
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn

Radio Isotope.3045:

Where did Jormag strike first, then second, then third, etc. Who were the mightiest Norn Champions that tried to kill Jormag but couldn’t. What gave them the idea of using that scroll in the first place.

You’re asking us for information not given.

All we pretty much know is that when Jormag entered norn territory, a multi-year blizzard began and the norn, seeing a challenge, went to challenge Jormag and failed. After an unknown amount of time, the Spirits of the Wild told Aesgir to send the norn south – Bear, Wolf, Raven, and Snow Leopard guided them south, while Owl, Eagle, Wolverine, and Ox battled Jormag. Sometime between all this, Aesgir – supposedly with the help of the jotun scroll, but certainly with the aid of the Spirits of the Wild – fought Jormag and knocked out a tooth and carried said tooth south.

During the flight south, Jormag and Owl battled in the skies over the norn themselves – and to keep Jormag off of the norn, Owl dived into Jormag’s mouth and attacked him from inside, before being killed utterly.

Bear and co. led the norn to a valley in the central Shiverpeak Mountains where Aesgir established Hoelbrak, placing the tooth in the Great Lodge. He also had a friend, Hrothbier, to destroy iceberg that was threatening to crush Hoelbrak during its early years – said iceberg being chipped away became Lake Mourn.

That’s the basics of it.

We don’t know names of norn who fell to Jormag during that time, we don’t know where or how he first struck (just that the norn knew he was coming south and there was a long blizzard – and that he shattered the Far Shiverpeaks when he woke up), nor do we know anything about the scroll or its purpose or intention other than “Aesgir might have had it, it’s jotun, and it might contain Elder Dragon information.”

You pretty much already have all links except for random NPC dialogues – in which case, go through Hoelbrak, Wayfarer Foothills, and Snowden Drifts and find the skaalds – they’ll tell you whatever may be missing. Or kodan in Frostgorge Sound, though they mostly talk about their personal flight south.

ty Konig. I see you on the lore forums alot giving wise well put posts and replys. I sent them an email with what im doing. So lets see if I get a response.

~tackles Konig~
Asgeir. Not Aesgir.

I blame ArenaNet occasionally mispelling it as Aesgir. And that Aesgir sounds more norse.

Asgeir is the actual real Norse name, though. Like one of the Icelandic presidents, who has the amusing name Asgeir Asgeirson.

Yes, well, I think of Aesgard when I think of Asgeir (or rather, Aesgir). But still, Aesgir is a common mispelling begun by Anet! Don’t hate me!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yes, well, I think of Aesgard when I think of Asgeir (or rather, Aesgir).

<_< It’s spelled ‘Asgard’. Or, more specifically, it’s spelled “Ásgarðr”.

Son of Elias.5420:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yes, well, I think of Aesgard when I think of Asgeir (or rather, Aesgir).

<_< It’s spelled ‘Asgard’. Or, more specifically, it’s spelled “Ásgarðr”.

I learned that from Stargate

Son of Elias.5420:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yes, well, I think of Aesgard when I think of Asgeir (or rather, Aesgir).

<_< It’s spelled ‘Asgard’. Or, more specifically, it’s spelled “Ásgarðr”.

Sorry, I meant Aesir – or if you want to get technical, Æsir.

Dunno why the two got mixed up in my head. (Edit: Oh, probably because my guild was talking about the Asgard and Stargate’s joke on the name (“we’re called Asgard because we guard your kitten #8221;) earlier yesterday).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Son of Elias.5420:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yes, well, I think of Aesgard when I think of Asgeir (or rather, Aesgir).

<_< It’s spelled ‘Asgard’. Or, more specifically, it’s spelled “Ásgarðr”.

Sorry, I meant Aesir – or if you want to get technical, Æsir.

Dunno why the two got mixed up in my head. (Edit: Oh, probably because my guild was talking about the Asgard and Stargate’s joke on the name ("we’re called Asgard because we guard your kitten ) earlier yesterday).

You were also talking about me

Conversation with Old Fiach:

“Tell me about the battle against Jormag.”

“When Jormag rose from the ice, our people stood like a mighty armored fist against the dragon. Days stretched into nights, and norn threw themselves against the dreaded Ice Dragon.”

“What happened next?”

“Jormag cut through the norn, hundreds at a time. In the face of destruction, the Spirits of the Wild led our ancestors south to Hoelbrak, where we live and grow today.”

Pretty cool huh! Imagine a large army of Norn in battle armor jumping off of cliffs to get on top of the dragon, hundreds on the ground trying to tie down its legs and then Jormag just shrugs them off like fleas and with his one fel sweep of his might claws he snatches the life out of all of them. Must have been an epic battle.

Ty Fairymore rep given any other finds would be awesome!

Fairymore.8609:

Pretty cool huh! Imagine a large army of Norn in battle armor jumping off of cliffs to get on top of the dragon, hundreds on the ground trying to tie down its legs and then Jormag just shrugs them off like fleas and with his one fel sweep of his might claws he snatches the life out of all of them. Must have been an epic battle.

And toward the end, Asgeir rips out his tooth. Ha ha. Norn don’t need lasers.

Go Norn or go home, eh?

Oglaf.1074:

Go Norn or go home, eh?

Indeed!

The more I find out, the more I think Jormag makes Zhaitan look like a little kitten.
and yes I did say kitten and not a curse-word. lol

Of course he is more bad*ss, Jormag is the one who pushed the Norn south, the manliest race of them all. What did Zhaitan do? Reviving some corpses and sending to harass the unmanliest race of them all, the Sylvari. No competition.

(Though, when Jormang asked Zhaitan, if he even lifts, Zhaitan could say yes, since he lifted Orr)

Zhaitan did more than that – he besieged Lion’s Arch, wiped out various port cities, and was an overall nuisance to anyone near the Sea of Sorrows.

Jormag on the other hand not only forced the norn south, but survived a battle with four of the Spirits of the Wild (of which he ate one), toppled iceburg cities (the kodan sanctuaries) and scattered the entire kodan race to the four winds, and let’s not forget that he shattered part of the largest mountain range known on Tyria to create an inland sea when he woke up (that’s splitting mountains down to below sea level, and that inland sea is pretty wide).

And that’s not to ignore the deep sea dragon who pushed the entire krait race – who are put on par to charr in battle prowess on land (meaning underwater krait are stronger than charr on land), the quaggan, the largos, the karka, and has managed to remain unknown to most of civilization.

Primordus on the other hand pushed out the asura – big deal, right? Well…. Elder Dragons eat magic, and the asura had to leave all those magical objects that they had (and lets not forget how asura often lose such magical objects due to their paranoia). That’s a lot of food, and he’s been down there for 200 years creating that army of his.

And speaking of magical food surpluses, the Crystal Desert is a land rich in magic, and where is Kralkatorrik? Yeah…

Zhaitan was taken out because he’s the most immediate of threats, not because he’s the greatest. If anything, he seems to be the weakest of the Elder Dragons. Kralkatorrik second, only because he got his kitten handed to him by five individuals and his former champion (even if he did just wake up) – but on the up side for him, he put a huge thorn in the charr’s side just before. The only Elder Dragon we can compare – of those we know about – for strength would be the sixth ED.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Primordus on the other hand pushed out the asura

The skritt and sundry non-sapient creatures as well (murellows, skelk, bats, oozes, fleshreavers, etc)

Yes, well, except for the fleshreavers, none of those are really much of any care (well, skritt are, but not in the scale of “having done this makes the dragon kittener”.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

During the flight south, Jormag and Owl battled in the skies over the norn themselves – and to keep Jormag off of the norn, Owl dived into Jormag’s mouth and attacked him from inside, before being killed utterly.

Wow, I didn’t know THAT was what happened to him O.o

Where did you learn that?

This complicates my theory of Owl being alive, but captured by Jormag in the Mists (given how Jormag is interested on taking control of at least part of the mists, it’s possible he or his worshipping SoS have a base of operations), but I think it’s still a possible theory given that the Owl is an spirit and Jormag might have some power too to only contain him inside to later spit him out and keep him in the Mists for torture.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

(Though, when Jormang asked Zhaitan, if he even lifts, Zhaitan could say yes, since he lifted Orr)

http://www.instantsfun.es/BADUMTSS

It was from one of the skaalds – I think in Snowden Drifts.

Well when you meditate at owls shrine, It pretty much gives an explanation that Owl is being tortured and in severe pain.

Actually, it says:

“What comes next is an assault on the senses. A flurry of feathers, a scream into the maw of oblivion, a creeping coldness. But one sensation towers over them all—hope.”

The ‘scream into the maw of oblivion’, obviously, would be Owl diving into Jormag’s mouth, followed by ‘a creeping coldness’, which would presumably be her death. Then hope, which is likely hope for the norn, who can now escape.

I found a piece of information that could be useful. In Wayfarer Foothills, on Kevach’s Homstead (below Dolyak’s Pass) there’s a skaald called Skaald Stjarna. He confirms Owl’s sacrifice and that her spirit is death for sure. About how moots came to be, about Knut, Hoelbrak’s foundation and even a funny story that actually made me laugh (not sure if it was really funny, or I’m too tired, but was funny picturing it haha). Furthermore, it tells you about the fight with Jormag, and says thousands of Norn fought him. I find that pretty interesting. Hope it helps your…whatever you’re doing, I’d like to know! I’ll try to find more information here and there, you can learn much and more from walking and talking with NPC’s.

Whaaat. I don’t remember that. To the Foothills!

Norn fighting with Jormag? I don’t think so, not after Trehearne’s success with Zhaitan.

Obviously Trehearne and his Pact will be dealing with the ice elder dragon. In fact, Trehearne is probably speaking with Emperor Usoku in Cantha using his monotome charms to persuade him into allowing different races back into Cantha for the next expansion! That way when you meet the emperor, he can toss you aside and greet his good friend Trehearne c: so charming!

How could I forget though. Treehorn is also planning on destroying Kralkatorrik with 1,000,000 flesh golems since his necromancy powers far exceed those of the player character’s. Opening passage into Elona and killing Palawa Joko with you carrying all of his luggage because guess what, he’s the new King of Elona!

In all seriousness, there’s probably going to be a Norn version of Trehearne to tag along with so he can be known as the slayer of Jormag.

After Trahearne? Who knows. Before? Yeah, it happened. Before he pushed norn south, they were going after him in waves.

Though I somehow doubt that hundreds of norn can fight Jormag at once like the one skaald claims. They’d be shoving each other over for the glory of the hunt. Or drawing straws to see who goes next.

Unlikely. We saw way back in EotN that Norn will hunt together and share the glory of a hunt. And now Wolf is one of the major Spirits, who means hunting as a pack is even more important in Norn society. The concept of working together to take down large prey is fundamental to a lupine philosophy, after all.

As far as a Norn version of Trahearne, it would probably be Knut Whitebear, the Norn racial “leader”. He’s the descendant of Asgeir, after all, the one who cut out Jormag’s fang. Aside from that, we might have some new character appear as the one to finally shatter the Fang and, from that, go on to be Jormag’s slayer.

Oh no. You did not just compare Knut Whitebear to Trahearne! That’s a paddlin’!

This. Knut would eat Trahearne for lunch, if he ate salad, but he’s too Norn for that. And he surely isn’t as obnoxious.

Son of Elias.5420:

Unlikely. We saw way back in EotN that Norn will hunt together and share the glory of a hunt. And now Wolf is one of the major Spirits, who means hunting as a pack is even more important in Norn society. The concept of working together to take down large prey is fundamental to a lupine philosophy, after all.

As far as a Norn version of Trahearne, it would probably be Knut Whitebear, the Norn racial “leader”. He’s the descendant of Asgeir, after all, the one who cut out Jormag’s fang. Aside from that, we might have some new character appear as the one to finally shatter the Fang and, from that, go on to be Jormag’s slayer.

And this. Probably some small groups tried to take Jormag down, and when the rest saw it was futile when their fellows got massacred, they gathered more and more.

What I find interesting is that he says “thousands” of Norn. Could be an exaggeration, after all, skaalds are not known for their veracy. But if it is true, Norn must’ve been a pretty big civilazation and possibly could be more of them further north, beyond Jormag.

Regarding the Fang, I do hope we get to do that part somehow, since the beggining we are taken on a quest to get materials for making some weapon to destroy it and would be dissapointing to just give that to someone else and not even being credited for it.

Son of Elias.5420:

Unlikely. We saw way back in EotN that Norn will hunt together and share the glory of a hunt. And now Wolf is one of the major Spirits, who means hunting as a pack is even more important in Norn society. The concept of working together to take down large prey is fundamental to a lupine philosophy, after all.

There’s a HUGE difference between a hunting party of 3-8 norn and hundreds of norn fighting the same foe at once. Which is what the skaald claims – that Jormag took out hundreds of norn with a single swoop at a time.

That’s an army of norn. Norn not only don’t do armies, they can’t because they just don’t get along. That’s the entire lore behind it. Why do you think the most renown norn in the vigil never had a lasting partner until the PC comes along? Forgal’s a bloody norn is why. Most norn you see helping the Pact or the other orders are doing so to increase their legends or are in small groups.

It’s got nothing to do with them not being able to form hunting groups. It’s about the fact that they don’t come to agreements before a fistfight begins. This is who they are in lore, even if its poorly shown in-game (then again, a lot of the norn’s epicness is lacking in-game).

Son of Elias.5420:

As far as a Norn version of Trahearne, it would probably be Knut Whitebear, the Norn racial “leader”. He’s the descendant of Asgeir, after all, the one who cut out Jormag’s fang. Aside from that, we might have some new character appear as the one to finally shatter the Fang and, from that, go on to be Jormag’s slayer.

I don’t see it being Knut. I see it being one of his sons. Sigfast I think is the one who mentions doubt into just sitting around waiting for a hero. He wants to take the charge now.

Knut’s secretly training Wolfborn to fight icebrood, according to Whisper agetns in Hoelbrak, and according to Priory scholars in Hoelbrak there is an old song that’s believed to be a prophecy of Knut’s death. Sigfast is also sent by his father to Caudecus’ Manor for that party that’s interrupted by Separatists, so that he can experience more of the world.

I bet either Knut’s preparing a small elite unit for his son – with or without his knowledge – or Knut’s going to kick the bucket, prophecy style, and Sigfast replaces him in leading the charge.

“Indeed!”

Knut is norn so I’d like to see him going out heroicly. Anyone know what his wife is up to? I know they say shes out adventuring but its pretty vague.

I knew the Wolfborn had become a much more organised unit but I was unaware of the special training or the song prophecy thing.

I do hope we get a awesome moment were someone norn shatters the tooth.

For the secret training – take a Whispers character and go to the Bear Lodge. At the southern ice sculpture with the vista on top, there’s two siblings arguing – the brother is a member of Whispers (there’s actually a lot of Whispers members in Hoelbrak…). Outside Raven Lodge are some Priory scholars, one being an asura. Take a Priory character to talk to him, and he’ll elaborate on the prophecy he’s discussing to say the norn are claiming some old fireside song has foretold the death of Knut Whitebear. He even says a small part of it, though I don’t remember what, iirc it was very bloody.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s an army of norn. Norn not only don’t do armies, they can’t because they just don’t get along. That’s the entire lore behind it.

No, it isn’t. The lore behind it is that the Norn, who used to be completely independent back in the days of GW1, have learned and are learning to work together as groups and as armies.

“As independent and self-reliant as the norn are, even they usually understand the benefit of working together.”

“Why are the norn working with others? Because they’ve learned the hard way that some foes are too strong to fight alone, and sometimes there’s no time to become stronger before a battle. The norn are proud, but they’re not stupid.”

“So norn become as strong as they can, and they surround themselves with others who are just as strong or stronger.”

Of course, this obviously isn’t every Norn, and the lesson they ‘learned the hard way’ was the defeat from Jormag, so it is fairly likely that skaald was exaggerating. However, if Jormag is just as big or bigger than Zhaitan, then there might have been hundreds of Norn attacking him independently, competing for who would actually kill him.

But your comment makes it seem like you think Norn are physically and universally incapable of fighting together or joining an army, which is obviously untrue.

That’s the norn NOW, not before Jormag pushed them south.

And besides, in a multitude of interviews, Jeff Grubb would give the example of how a group of norn couldn’t agree on what to order for lunch as for how independent they are and often said that norn armies were out of the question.

They may have learned to work with larger groups now, having been pushed into the proverbial wall, but before that? Nu uh.

And you actually just said exactly what I have been from the beginning: hundreds of norn attacking independently, in competition. Which goes back to my original comment: They’d be shoving each other over for the glory of the hunt. Or drawing straws to see who goes next.

One of the things I find interesting about Hoelbrak is that for the norn, its a very new thing to have a settlement this big. As far as I understand the norn have never had a real city before or I suppose in this case you would call it a super lodge. This is about a centralised as the norn have gotten.

Its having interesting side effects on the norn. We can meet norn who have become the equivilant of burocrats to regulate things such as trade. Also talking to the Wolfborn its clear that though they started out as a gathering of friends its becoming something a bit more organised and certainly larger.

I also find it interesting meeting that theres a norn in Lion’s Arch who seeks to biuld his legend not through hunting but through working as a dockworker. His legend to him will be built around the shear amount of work and physical labour he acheives. Its an interesting way for a norn to work his desire for legend into something else.

I dont think you’ll see norn lose their desire for personal legend and glory but at the same time perhaps they are become more flexable on how to acheive it. The norn are having to adapt, possibly more than any other of the major races, for the sake of survival. The concept of pack due to the spirit of the wolf gives them a basis to work from but its still a pretty major adaption for them.

Hoelbrak has been presented like Cavalon among the Luxons (for those who played GW1). It’s just a really big meeting place, but not as many norn live there full time – in the same manner, the nomadic Luxons meet at Cavalon to do trade and share stories, but don’t live there and in fact seldom stay there for extended periods of time.

So while Hoelbrak is huge, it’s more of a trading center for most norn (regardless of what they’re trading) that doubles as a social center to get together, party, drink bear, and tell stories. Those who live in the area live on the outskirts – in Shelter Rock and Frost Basin.