Guild Wars 2

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

The crystals would have had to have come from a specific dragon considering the color of the twisted watchworks…… but which one?

Not Kralkatorrik obviously nor Jormag or Primordus…. The only Dragons left are Zhaitan(who’s energy is green so his energies might be the power source for the Toxic Alliance and the Twisted Watchworks), the Deep Sea Dragon(we don’t even know it’s color) and the Jungle Dragon(we don’t know his color either).

Not necessarily. The crystals that powered the cores of the Thaumanova Reactor came from the chaos crystal caverns. The crystals there were predominantly purple, with a bit of variation. Yet, the chaotic residue was green.

The crystals gathered by the Molten Alliance were light blue (Azurite), and I imagine that the residue from this is still green.

Kralkatorrik’s energy turns green when in residue state? Fascinating……. Ah! According to the video I saw while posting this it seems Kralkatorrik’s Branded crystals from the Chaos Crystal Cavern found in the Iron Marches turn greener the closer one gets to the Asura Portal….. Excellent….

Guess the Watchworks and the Toxic Alliance are created by altered Branded energies…

Psynch.4087:

As a bonus point, what if chaos magic is actually dragon magic as Scarlet suggested? Well then, all of her devices are running on dragon magic, and no one has really ever seen this kind of thing before.

Considering that “dragon magic” is the same as “corruptive magic” I would say that chaos magic, a major utility for mesmers, in of itself is not dragon magic. Ellen Kiel makes it rather clear from her side of the observations that the Inquest was doing Chaos Magic experimentation THEN Dragon Magic experimentation.

As for “never seen this kind of thing before” about devices powered by dragon magic – wrong. The Iron Forgeman 2.0 in Sorrow’s Embrace story mode dungeon was fueled by dragon energies aka dragon magic according to Kudu, its (re)creator. Kudu was rather obsessed it seems with utilizing dragon energies, and all his work was derived from Snaff’s own studies of it.

Does this looks familiar to you guys?
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080625034811/gw_/images/5/53/Monument_of_Devotion.jpg

D:!
Nice Maliel, blow my mind will you.

The Watchknights were inspired from the remains of Gw:Utopia ‘s Chronomancers, and since utopia was cancelled some of it leaked into gw EotN, that picture is from the Hall of Monuments in gw eotn for those that don’t know. So I’m not entirely surprised that something like that existed. (Thanks for bringing the thread somewhat back on topic)

I have to wonder more about Scarlet’s experiences with the “eternal alchemy” – what really was it that drove her crazy? “Information overload”, or did she come into contact with a malevolent entity that overtook her mind? And if so, who was it?

I’m guessing that’s where the story is leading, and possibly Scarlet’s plans are ultimately an attempt to physically release that entity into Tyria – but not terribly sure where the signs would point if so. Primordus doesn’t do mind control, and its minions don’t either. Some mursaat individual would be a little surprising, considering the means involved. I couldn’t discount Mordremoth. It would, um… kind of fit Abaddon’s M.O., but he’s supposed to be dead.

Maliel.8362:

Does this looks familiar to you guys?
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080625034811/gw_/images/5/53/Monument_of_Devotion.jpg

Indeed it does – as concept art for GW1’s Sorrow’s Furnace which is where that art came from before being used in Eye of the North. :P

Here are the three originals of that style, all by Daniel Dociu:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Puppet%22_concept_art.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Puppet%22_concept_art_2.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Puppet%22_concept_art_3.jpg

Sirius.4510:

I have to wonder more about Scarlet’s experiences with the “eternal alchemy” – what really was it that drove her crazy? “Information overload”, or did she come into contact with a malevolent entity that overtook her mind? And if so, who was it?

I’m guessing that’s where the story is leading, and possibly Scarlet’s plans are ultimately an attempt to physically release that entity into Tyria – but not terribly sure where the signs would point if so. Primordus doesn’t do mind control, and its minions don’t either. Some mursaat individual would be a little surprising, considering the means involved. I couldn’t discount Mordremoth. It would, um… kind of fit Abaddon’s M.O., but he’s supposed to be dead.

Menzies or Dhuum maybe? A pity we can’t bring an alternate Abaddon out of a Fractal and into Tyria….

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Menzies or Dhuum maybe? A pity we can’t bring an alternate Abaddon out of a Fractal and into Tyria….

Only if we can push Evon into the whole “vortex of secrets” unleashed when we kill him this time. Make a charr into a human god, just to make them cry.

I think at this point we have very little reason to assume the involvement of the Elder Dragons, or Abaddon (because he’s dead!), or Menzies (because he’s never mentioned), or Dhuum (whose fate is uncertain at this point), or any other outside influence. If they haven’t involved them up to this point, I find it very unlikely that they’ll suddenly be thrown into the story near the end of Scarlet’s living story arc.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think at this point we have very little reason to assume the involvement of the Elder Dragons, or Abaddon (because he’s dead!), or Menzies (because he’s never mentioned), or Dhuum (whose fate is uncertain at this point), or any other outside influence. If they haven’t involved them up to this point, I find it very unlikely that they’ll suddenly be thrown into the story near the end of Scarlet’s living story arc.

. . . I find it highly likely some thing will be involved in Scarlet’s last four updates.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . I find it highly likely some thing will be involved in Scarlet’s last four updates.

The deep voice over during the trailer makes me think that perhaps they will give us a hint of something new at the end of it all. But so far nothing hints at any of the established baddies.

Another thing I wanted to bring up, is the new bosses. There’s not just the giant watchwork knight, but the trailer also shows us a new Wurm Boss in Bloodtide Coast. Is this wurm in any way linked to Scarlet’s activities? Did the thumpers perhaps bring this creature to the surface?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . I find it highly likely some thing will be involved in Scarlet’s last four updates.

The deep voice over during the trailer makes me think that perhaps they will give us a hint of something new at the end of it all. But so far nothing hints at any of the established baddies.

Another thing I wanted to bring up, is the new bosses. There’s not just the giant watchwork knight, but the trailer also shows us a new Wurm Boss in Bloodtide Coast. Is this wurm in any way linked to Scarlet’s activities? Did the thumpers perhaps bring this creature to the surface?

It’s not explicitly stated from ANet that is the case from what I recall, but it either said by third parties or inferred.

A third party said a dev said that the voice was just there to be epic. It means nothing.

I think the Elder Dragons arent something that would rock Tyria to its very core. I mean, Zhaitan was pretty dangerous at certain moments but he didnt rock Tyria to its core and neither will Primordus. It might have a little bit to do with the arc but not the main thing. The thing I am struggling with though is that it is very easy to say an Elder Dragon is the worst that could happen so what significance does Scarlet have in this apart from waking an Elder Dragon. Because what could be worse right??? I still think it has something to do with the Chaos Magic or Steam Creatures or something from the future even (this would certainly mess with Tyria’s time and space and is therefore rocking it to its core). There are a few things we havent really discussed yet:

- the teaser photo http://i.imgur.com/MbDGJSr.jpg?1
What is behind the cross? Where is this place? Whats in that box on the left???
I think this is a location we already know! This isnt in the airship with the MArionette for sure. Its a shame I cant go and investigate where it is as I dont have much timeto go. My guess is that this is in Lornar’s Pass near a Grawl cave. If someone checked it out and it isnt, thats a shame then and I guess well have to wait. In the box I guess there’s something….. odd. Its certainly not a chest with loot for us. It might be an object that Scarlet needs desperately so she keeps it safe or it is like Pandora’s Box. I must admit it looks destroyer-like or molten alliance like and I saw somewhere a dev said it was glowing. I also saw that she/he said maybe it wasnt smart to open it at all so I am pretty sure we are going to open it. I dont know. On the paper with red ink behind the cross is a hint, too bad we cant see it! Post your ideas here if you have a clue!

What is the thing floating above the Marionette?? It is important, and in the trailer it looks like it has Chaos energy written all over it. (fast assumptions here but in the first shot it looks like it comes out of a greenish portal and I connect that with Chaos energy) It might also be blowing toxins all over the place considering it is green from the downside and it looks like a huge fan.

- The Wurm. Kinda discussed already but whatever. What possible connection could it have to anything.

- Now that we know more about the thumpers, we might be able to say more about what Scarlet is looking for.

This might help finding out what the drawing is. It is not entirely accurate but I am certain it will suffice.

http://i.imgur.com/7sB6Duf.png

@blurk, why do you associate chaos magic and the color green? Green is most always associated with necromancers, chaos magic being normally black and purple/pink like the chaos beasts, chaos storm etc.

The chaotic material/energy spewing out of Thaumanova is green or greenish black.

Personally, I think a distinction ought to be made between the Thaumanova chaos energy and mesmer chaos energy. The only thing they have in common is that they create unpredictable effects, but even there each has distinct portfolios of random effects. The visuals are completely different, and mesmer magic has been used for hundreds of years like any other, whereas the Thaumanova stuff is supposedly thoroughly unsafe to even make contact with.

I know you’re referring to the golem event, but I normally chalk that up to miasma, just toxic magical waste. Lots of stuff was going on at thaumanova, just like in CoE, but the creatures (chaos beasts) that appear still stick to the blk/purple scheme same as in the chaos crystal caverns.

Whoa… I think these might be the leylines….

If this paper had Tyria printed on it —

On the left, we see an intersection of two paths. That could be the location of Thaumanova. Then to the right (east) we see a number of paths emerging from the location of Kralk.

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

An evil psycho maniac stealing your creation doesn’t make YOU a bad ruler… You seem to be implying that had someone else been ruling then they would have been able to stop Scarlet, but that isn’t likely to be the case.

Her gift to humanity did not fail, she has created a really effective protector, it’s just unfortunately been hijacked – but that doesn’t mean that once Scarlet has been dealt with the Watchknights can’t be put to their planned use.

And in fact her actions and the actions of those she keeps around her in RESPONSE to Scarlets actions prove that she is a more than capable leader.

Edusd.7893:

I know you’re referring to the golem event, but I normally chalk that up to miasma, just toxic magical waste. Lots of stuff was going on at thaumanova, just like in CoE, but the creatures (chaos beasts) that appear still stick to the blk/purple scheme same as in the chaos crystal caverns.

Not just the golem event itself, but also the chaotic material that spawns chaos beasts as part of the pre-event and the hearts in Thaumanova and the Anthill.

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

An evil psycho maniac stealing your creation doesn’t make YOU a bad ruler… You seem to be implying that had someone else been ruling then they would have been able to stop Scarlet, but that isn’t likely to be the case.

Her gift to humanity did not fail, she has created a really effective protector, it’s just unfortunately been hijacked – but that doesn’t mean that once Scarlet has been dealt with the Watchknights can’t be put to their planned use.

And in fact her actions and the actions of those she keeps around her in RESPONSE to Scarlets actions prove that she is a more than capable leader.

The queen is responsible. Ok maybe not total responsibility. But she cannot just wipe her hands clean from this. Whatever it is her fault or not, she will lose popular support over this.

The new weapon, that the queen personally promised will protect the humans, ends up killing thousands of humans. Of course the queen will lose popular support. Maybe not enough to make her abdicate right now. But it is a step in that direction.

What would “make sense” is a deep investigation into the Watchknight’s R&D facility. There is obviously a spy or two inside. Someone have to be hanged for this. The spy need to be hanged. And the director might need to be hanged for allowing this information leak.

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

Ok let’s go to an alternative universe on Earth, in Japan 1940. The battleship Yamato has just been completed. The demigod emperor was making a public speech in front of tens of thousands of civilians, about how Yamato will protect their nation.

Suddenly the Yamato turn its 45 calibre guns toward the crowd and open fire. In an hour thousands of civilians were killed.

It turns out the Yamato malfunctioned. Its computers (remember, alternative universe) has an error that identified the crowd as a threat.

Of course by logic the demigod emperor will loss support. His promise of protection was broken as soon as he made that promise, literally less than 5 minutes after he made that promise. The very weapon that was introduced ends up killing thousands of civilians before it ever protected anybody.

The only way the emperor won’t loss support would be that he is viewed as a demigod. And the Japanese subjects have 100% unquestioning loyalty to him.

Here is the problem: Queen Jennah is not a demigod queen.

Oh, but there are official accusations…but sadly, it´s Hobo-Tron and Minstrel and instead of hanging, they are taking donations for DR in LA…

Chips, you are flat out wrong.
A person cannot be held at fault for the actions of another.
Queen Jennah is not to blame for Scarlet stealing the Watchknights any more than she is to blame for Scarlets actions throughout the storyline. I’m stating a fact here, you may choose to see it otherwise and blame Queen Jennah, but you will be alone in that. The only person I can see thinking in the same way as you is Minister Caudecus, who is evil…

CHIPS just has your atypical news media mentality going on here. Ignore him.

The only thing Jennah has to blame is that her employees (the Shining Blade and Seraph) weren’t good enough to catch Scarlet on time.

Sad thing is, we have no clue what exactly Logan and Anise and their men were doing (as well as what Marjory and Kasmeer were doing at the time), so we have no clue whether they were actively spending every waking moment trying to track down the source of the hijacking or if they were sitting on their hands all day.

The CEO of a company is not to blame when a low-level grunt the CEO never even heard of or know beyond a payroll went and sold company secrets to a rival company. It would be the said employee’s fault – and maybe t he immediate superior at the most.

When a nation screws up/gets attacked somehow, the leader is typically scrutinized (and nothing more) but in reality they’re not at fault. Just think of the government lockdown not too long ago – it was the Congress’ own active actions (now conveniently forgotten), but I saw a bunch of people laying the blame on Obama nonetheless. It’s an inevitable part of being leader – anything that goes wrong, is “your fault” even if it isn’t. And like I said, CHIPS just has the typical news media mentality of laying the blame on the leader even when it wasn’t the leader’s fault in the least.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

The only person I can see thinking in the same way as you is Minister Caudecus, who is evil…

If CHIPS was arguing over a real-life leader, you’d probably compare him to your least liked news network. Like FOX if you’re living in America but not a blind republican.

CHIPS.6018:

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

Ok let’s go to an alternative universe on Earth, in Japan 1940. The battleship Yamato has just been completed. The demigod emperor was making a public speech in front of tens of thousands of civilians, about how Yamato will protect their nation.

Suddenly the Yamato turn its 45 calibre guns toward the crowd and open fire. In an hour thousands of civilians were killed.

It turns out the Yamato malfunctioned. Its computers (remember, alternative universe) has an error that identified the crowd as a threat.

Of course by logic the demigod emperor will loss support. His promise of protection was broken as soon as he made that promise, literally less than 5 minutes after he made that promise. The very weapon that was introduced ends up killing thousands of civilians before it ever protected anybody.

The only way the emperor won’t loss support would be that he is viewed as a demigod. And the Japanese subjects have 100% unquestioning loyalty to him.

Here is the problem: Queen Jennah is not a demigod queen.

Yeah, you forgot to mention that Americans hijacked the system and forced it to shoot on the populace.

You are making it sound like the system just malfunctioned, which is not the case. The Watchknights would have been great at their jobs if there hadn’t been a malicious force trying to corrupt their systems.

If Queen Jennah said, “Yay Watchknights!” and they started massacring the populace with no outside influence, then yeah, it would be her fault. But the real situation isn’t that way.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Chips, you are flat out wrong.
A person cannot be held at fault for the actions of another.
Queen Jennah is not to blame for Scarlet stealing the Watchknights any more than she is to blame for Scarlets actions throughout the storyline. I’m stating a fact here, you may choose to see it otherwise and blame Queen Jennah, but you will be alone in that. The only person I can see thinking in the same way as you is Minister Caudecus, who is evil…

You are coming from the view that every human love Queen Jennah. This is far from the case. For example, a great portion of the human population still hates the Charr. Now we do not know the whole history of Tyria down to every minor detail. But people can hate Queen Jennah for a great number of reasons, some of them maybe unknown to the players right now.

And then the Watchknights killed thousands of civilians, before the players can stop them.

Now of course a person coming from the camp of “I Love Jennah” would not think this way. He will not blame Queen Jennah for this incident because you likes her.

For the other side, the “I hate Jennah” camp, this can escalate really quickly.

Is Queen Jennah actually at fault? Nope. But that doesn’t matter. All that matters is what the mob thinks and believes.

Now obviously Caudecus is evil. Everyone (the players) knows that. But he is also a very smart and cunning man. You see, he do not need to blame Queen Jennah for the watchknights. His agents can do it for him. Caudecus can actually “side” with Queen Jennah in the court, while working behind her back for her demise. All it takes is some rumour spreading and propaganda from the agents of Caudecus, and this whole thing can boil over.

And this is politics. Caudecus doesn’t need to actually revolt. A real cunning politician doesn’t need do that. He will win without a fight.

It should be obvious that people are rarely logical when it comes to politics. Mr. H. was elected as chancellor in Germany.

Will Queen Jennah actually losses power from the watchknight incident alone? Maybe not. But it maybe a step in a series of events, that eventually causes Queen Jennah to abdicate.

And this is why I love political lore. Things are not so simply black and white.

I’m not coming from the viewpoint of any human within the game. I’m looking at the situation from an external common sense point of view. In no way could Jennah be held responsible for Scarlets actions. Scarlet is the only one who can be held responsible.

The citizens of Divinity’s Reach are most likely extremely aware that the entire thing was caused by Scarlet, what with their city being invaded. The watchknights that ended up killing people hardly even resembled Jennah’s creations, it is pretty obvious that people are not going to associate the clockwork terror’s with Jennah…

If you want to suggest that there may be people in Tyria who will wrongly hold her accountable for the events then go ahead, I won’t argue that Tyria will have it’s fair share of idiots – but that is not what you were initially arguing.

Please don’t bring Germany and Hitler into this, there is a lot of complex stuff surrounding that… His election into power was not a case of people being illogical, there is so much more involved and you would have to look at ALL the facts (e.g. people who opposed him being murdered tortured etc, as well as what the kitten party supposedly offered germany vs. what they ACTUALLY offered germany). Real life history is a lot more complex and I don’t think Germans would appreciate their history being trivialized in comparison to a video game.

Narcemus.1348:

CHIPS.6018:

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

Ok let’s go to an alternative universe on Earth, in Japan 1940. The battleship Yamato has just been completed. The demigod emperor was making a public speech in front of tens of thousands of civilians, about how Yamato will protect their nation.

Suddenly the Yamato turn its 45 calibre guns toward the crowd and open fire. In an hour thousands of civilians were killed.

It turns out the Yamato malfunctioned. Its computers (remember, alternative universe) has an error that identified the crowd as a threat.

Of course by logic the demigod emperor will loss support. His promise of protection was broken as soon as he made that promise, literally less than 5 minutes after he made that promise. The very weapon that was introduced ends up killing thousands of civilians before it ever protected anybody.

The only way the emperor won’t loss support would be that he is viewed as a demigod. And the Japanese subjects have 100% unquestioning loyalty to him.

Here is the problem: Queen Jennah is not a demigod queen.

Yeah, you forgot to mention that Americans hijacked the system and forced it to shoot on the populace.

You are making it sound like the system just malfunctioned, which is not the case. The Watchknights would have been great at their jobs if there hadn’t been a malicious force trying to corrupt their systems.

If Queen Jennah said, “Yay Watchknights!” and they started massacring the populace with no outside influence, then yeah, it would be her fault. But the real situation isn’t that way.

Yes by equivalent it would have been the Americans who “hijacked” the Yamato. However it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the emperior introduced the Yamato, the Yamato started killing civilians.

In GW2, it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the Queen introduced the watchknights, the watchknights started killing civilians.

This is a fact. Many people saw this.

And yes this is a political gold mine for Caudecus. His propaganda machines will have a very fun time.

Once again, the truth rarely matters in politics. And this is especially true during war and chaotic times. Propaganda (by Caudecus) against a mostly uneducated population (e.g. medieval) is easy.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I’m not coming from the viewpoint of any human within the game. I’m looking at the situation from an external common sense point of view. In no way could Jennah be held responsible for Scarlets actions. Scarlet is the only one who can be held responsible.

The citizens of Divinity’s Reach are most likely extremely aware that the entire thing was caused by Scarlet, what with their city being invaded. The watchknights that ended up killing people hardly even resembled Jennah’s creations, it is pretty obvious that people are not going to associate the clockwork terror’s with Jennah…

If you want to suggest that there may be people in Tyria who will wrongly hold her accountable for the events then go ahead, I won’t argue that Tyria will have it’s fair share of idiots – but that is not what you were initially arguing.

Please don’t bring Germany and Hitler into this, there is a lot of complex stuff surrounding that… His election into power was not a case of people being illogical, there is so much more involved and you would have to look at ALL the facts (e.g. people who opposed him being murdered tortured etc, as well as what the kitten party supposedly offered germany vs. what they ACTUALLY offered germany). Real life history is a lot more complex and I don’t think Germans would appreciate their history being trivialized in comparison to a video game.

With Caudecus’ propaganda machines in the works, you will be surprised how many people start placing blame on Jennah for the watchknight massacre.

Like I said I don’t think Jennah will lose power right away. But this maybe one step in that direction.

This is how the living story should be. History is changing, one step at a time. This is like a chess game.

I mention Mr.H. only to prove a point about politics. In politics, what seems like “madness” and “foolishness” 40 years in the future could very well “make sense” 40 years ago. What seems “impossible” might very well happen.

There is nothing to suggest that the population of Kryta is uneducated. They are not a medieval society, they exist in a fantasy world and possess magical abilities, so their development/advancement comes in a different shape to our world.

The fact is that the watchknights started killing people once SCARLET showed up. That will be the connection people will make. This isn’t a case of machinery malfunctioning, this is a case of very blatant hijacking – Scarlet wanted all of Humanity to KNOW what she had done, to know that she could best them. That was the entire point of her attack on Divinity’s Reach. She took a moment that was supposed to be triumphant for humanity, and showed how she could ruin that. The political opportunities are not as big as you seem to think they are.

CHIPS.6018:

Is Queen Jennah actually at fault? Nope. But that doesn’t matter. All that matters is what the mob thinks and believes.

So, pretty much you admit Queen Jennah isn’t responsible, then go on about how she is with broken analogies. Seems legit.

I do look forward to what Caudecus is going to do about all this but I have other suspicions for his actions. Especially considering his silent partners.

CHIPS.6018:

a mostly uneducated population (e.g. medieval) is easy.

The ORPHANS in Salma District are being educated. Such children are often on the lowest end of the stick just shy of completely homeless or incredibly poor for having things like education in any society.

A good amount of Krytans seem capable of reading – and you’d be surprised how many folks out there even today cannot read – and even if there’s no formal education system there’s the Durmand Priory who are known to print out books for commoners to buy and read. Reading, one of the most basic functions for learning, is a wide-scale in Kryta and the other races.

Over the past 220 years, New Krytan has become the standard writing system in Tyria and is used widely throughout the human kingdom, the asura colleges, and by the norn. The Durmand Priory set out to promote literacy and make the use of the new alphabet commonplace, so that all intelligent beings could read and understand the words that were appearing all around them.

Today, every citizen of Tyria, regardless of their origins, is given the opportunity and the education to read and understand the alphabet of New Krytan.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cultural_Diffusion_in_Contemporary_Kryta

Kryta is far from “uneducated” and is far from medieval in its education system. It is perhaps even better than our own modern education system. Just because we don’t see schools doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And if you want to see at least a miniscule part of Kryta’s education system go to the northern lower part of the Plaza of Kormir where you’ll see scholars teaching others in ancient Greek forum style – I doubt you’d go and say the Greek philosophers were uneducated as it seems that Kryta’s education system is based off of that at least in part. On top of that we can see scholars in Kormir Low Road going out of their way to educate the homeless refugees.

And even to say that the medieval era was full of a “mostly uneducated population” is grotesquely false. In ancient times people specialized in trades, during and long, long before the medieval era – Blacksmithing, tailoring, and the like. They were educated but it was akin to going through a specialized education for their chosen or determined (depending on the culture) trade the individual would learn. While they didn’t have your modern education system of “kids should learn a bit of everything and then specialize” they were far from some sort of “uneducated masses.”

And even then, uneducated is NOT the same as gullible. You can fix uneducated by teaching, but you can’t fix gullibility. (The phrase “you can’t fix stupid” should actually be changed to “you can’t fix gullibility” since that’s really what it means; sadly, stupid sounds better).

So I am sorry but CHIPS, YOU ARE DREADFULLY WRONG in claiming that Krytan has mostly uneducated people. Because most of Tyrians are educated. You would not find a single charr that wasn’t born in LA or from a Gladium that isn’t educated, you’d be hard pressed to find any asura or sylvari that isn’t educated. And the same goes for human and norn though they – especially norn – would be the most likely to have uneducated individuals amongst them but still thanks to the Durmand Priory who focus not just in uncovering lost knowledge but spreading that knowledge as well as the own cultural education systems, uneducated individuals of all intelligent races (playable or otherwise) is rare indeed. Like I said, Tyria is likely far more educated than our own modern world – pick a continent, any continent, and Tyria’s educated/uneducated ratio is likely better than what you picked.

Disclaimer: Our idea of “educated” and Tyrian ideas of “educated” may vary wildly. However it is basic to find people capable of simple math and reading. An average asura will have more advanced knowledge of mechanics than your average norn though, and definitely your average sylvari.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I do look forward to what Caudecus is going to do about all this but I have other suspicions for his actions. Especially considering his silent partners.

I’m personally hoping that Caudecus is going to try to discredit Jennah for her lack of foresight on the matter. She and her Shining Blades obviously knew about an external threat to the celebration and general population. Yet, they didn’t do anything to try and guarantee the safety of the people, and in their inaction; it lead to the death of countless of innocent bystanders.

Everyone knows that Scarlet was behind the hijacking of the watchknights, which is backed up by her entry and the envoys of all the major nations. So, that is a dead end for a political attack. The true dirt for a political attack is in what Jennah didn’t do. Caudecus could say, after the disaster that was the Opening Ceremony, that the Queen should have shelved the watchknights until a thorough inspection, because there was obvious tampering by a hostile third party.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…. political jargon. Long story short, Caudecus tells the public and his fellow nobles that the Queen cares more for her own safety then her people’s. Add in some senseless rabble rousing statements like, “Obviously she doesn’t think our own safety is her concern.”, and, “She’s the one to blame for the death of our loved ones.”. There you have a nice political fight on your hands.

Erukk.1408:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I do look forward to what Caudecus is going to do about all this but I have other suspicions for his actions. Especially considering his silent partners.

I’m personally hoping that Caudecus is going to try to discredit Jennah for her lack of foresight on the matter. She and her Shining Blades obviously knew about an external threat to the celebration and general population. Yet, they didn’t do anything to try and guarantee the safety of the people, and in their inaction; it lead to the death of countless of innocent bystanders.

Everyone knows that Scarlet was behind the hijacking of the watchknights, which is backed up by her entry and the envoys of all the major nations. So, that is a dead end for a political attack. The true dirt for a political attack is in what Jennah didn’t do. Caudecus could say, after the disaster that was the Opening Ceremony, that the Queen should have shelved the watchknights until a thorough inspection, because there was obvious tampering by a hostile third party.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…. political jargon. Long story short, Caudecus tells the public and his fellow nobles that the Queen cares more for her own safety then her people’s. Add in some senseless rabble rousing statements like, “Obviously she doesn’t think our own safety is her concern.”, and, “She’s the one to blame for the death of our loved ones.”. There you have a nice political fight on your hands.

Caudecus isn’t so . . . simple, with his attacks. He doesn’t need to step up and twirl a mustache to do his thing. What he will do is get up and do a Marc Antony . . .

(But Brutus is an honorable man.)

CHIPS.6018:

Narcemus.1348:

CHIPS.6018:

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

Ok let’s go to an alternative universe on Earth, in Japan 1940. The battleship Yamato has just been completed. The demigod emperor was making a public speech in front of tens of thousands of civilians, about how Yamato will protect their nation.

Suddenly the Yamato turn its 45 calibre guns toward the crowd and open fire. In an hour thousands of civilians were killed.

It turns out the Yamato malfunctioned. Its computers (remember, alternative universe) has an error that identified the crowd as a threat.

Of course by logic the demigod emperor will loss support. His promise of protection was broken as soon as he made that promise, literally less than 5 minutes after he made that promise. The very weapon that was introduced ends up killing thousands of civilians before it ever protected anybody.

The only way the emperor won’t loss support would be that he is viewed as a demigod. And the Japanese subjects have 100% unquestioning loyalty to him.

Here is the problem: Queen Jennah is not a demigod queen.

Yeah, you forgot to mention that Americans hijacked the system and forced it to shoot on the populace.

You are making it sound like the system just malfunctioned, which is not the case. The Watchknights would have been great at their jobs if there hadn’t been a malicious force trying to corrupt their systems.

If Queen Jennah said, “Yay Watchknights!” and they started massacring the populace with no outside influence, then yeah, it would be her fault. But the real situation isn’t that way.

Yes by equivalent it would have been the Americans who “hijacked” the Yamato. However it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the emperior introduced the Yamato, the Yamato started killing civilians.

In GW2, it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the Queen introduced the watchknights, the watchknights started killing civilians.

This is a fact. Many people saw this.

And yes this is a political gold mine for Caudecus. His propaganda machines will have a very fun time.

Once again, the truth rarely matters in politics. And this is especially true during war and chaotic times. Propaganda (by Caudecus) against a mostly uneducated population (e.g. medieval) is easy.

Actually you are a little wrong here. In the opening ceremony we had one watchknight attack and attempt to kill Logan. This was when Queen Jennah introduced them to the populace. If we go off of a real world time-scale (which ArenaNet seems to prefer) we had two weeks of perfectly working Watchknights before they were hijacked, not 5 minutes. Similarly, although there were loads of deaths, I do not remember seeing anywhere that there were 10’s of thousands dead. I think you need to stop exaggerating quite so much. Was there perhaps a lack of foresight and planning? Perhaps so, but how do you plan against a complete unknown? For all we know, Queen Jennah had people working night and day trying to prevent any further tampering with the Watchknights before they were finally hijacked. It is just that, we are not privy to all of the information about what was going on, not even Logan was.

I mean, if you want to state that Caudecus will try to use this against Queen Jennah, you might be right, but I highly doubt it will succeed. If anything, Caudecus’ inclusion in an event like that would mean that we, the players, would be siding with Jennah and avidly fighting against Caudecus’ political schemes. The real question is whether ArenaNet thinks a political scandal would be intriguing enough for players without dungeons/zergs/farming. I know many players who would, but there are thousands that just love zerging.

But those thousands don’t care about story at all, not one bit and wouldn’t care even if a pink pinata would start tossing coconuts at city walls as long as it drops loot.

It would be a sad day indeed if ANet will start listening to council of people who don’t care whatsoever about the story…

Winds of Change in GW1 was kind of political – of course it also had us clearing Afflicted out of all the maps so it wasn’t JUST political. And I think that’s the key point, if Anet want to do something political then it need to involve action of some sort, or it needs to involve incentive – take cutthroat politics for example, whilst it wasn’t realllly cutthroat politics and was actually just a player done election, people still got really into it, but they got into it because of what was on offer in terms of future story and in terms of tangible reward – and of odourless because it was interwoven with a really really fun living story update.

GW1 didn’t have large zerging mobs either, because it was a completely different style of game, lol.

Still I get your point. I personally love a highly political and dramatic story, they just need to have (as you said) some sort of reward or incentive to get the zergers to leave their stations for 10 minutes and get involved, lol. I really, really want this to happen, but my worry is that there are too many other voices on the opposite end of the spectrum (storyless, farming, gear grind)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

CHIPS.6018:

a mostly uneducated population (e.g. medieval) is easy.

The ORPHANS in Salma District are being educated. Such children are often on the lowest end of the stick just shy of completely homeless or incredibly poor for having things like education in any society.

A good amount of Krytans seem capable of reading – and you’d be surprised how many folks out there even today cannot read – and even if there’s no formal education system there’s the Durmand Priory who are known to print out books for commoners to buy and read. Reading, one of the most basic functions for learning, is a wide-scale in Kryta and the other races.

Over the past 220 years, New Krytan has become the standard writing system in Tyria and is used widely throughout the human kingdom, the asura colleges, and by the norn. The Durmand Priory set out to promote literacy and make the use of the new alphabet commonplace, so that all intelligent beings could read and understand the words that were appearing all around them.

Today, every citizen of Tyria, regardless of their origins, is given the opportunity and the education to read and understand the alphabet of New Krytan.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cultural_Diffusion_in_Contemporary_Kryta

Kryta is far from “uneducated” and is far from medieval in its education system. It is perhaps even better than our own modern education system. Just because we don’t see schools doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And if you want to see at least a miniscule part of Kryta’s education system go to the northern lower part of the Plaza of Kormir where you’ll see scholars teaching others in ancient Greek forum style – I doubt you’d go and say the Greek philosophers were uneducated as it seems that Kryta’s education system is based off of that at least in part. On top of that we can see scholars in Kormir Low Road going out of their way to educate the homeless refugees.

And even to say that the medieval era was full of a “mostly uneducated population” is grotesquely false. In ancient times people specialized in trades, during and long, long before the medieval era – Blacksmithing, tailoring, and the like. They were educated but it was akin to going through a specialized education for their chosen or determined (depending on the culture) trade the individual would learn. While they didn’t have your modern education system of “kids should learn a bit of everything and then specialize” they were far from some sort of “uneducated masses.”

And even then, uneducated is NOT the same as gullible. You can fix uneducated by teaching, but you can’t fix gullibility. (The phrase “you can’t fix stupid” should actually be changed to “you can’t fix gullibility” since that’s really what it means; sadly, stupid sounds better).

So I am sorry but CHIPS, YOU ARE DREADFULLY WRONG in claiming that Krytan has mostly uneducated people. Because most of Tyrians are educated. You would not find a single charr that wasn’t born in LA or from a Gladium that isn’t educated, you’d be hard pressed to find any asura or sylvari that isn’t educated. And the same goes for human and norn though they – especially norn – would be the most likely to have uneducated individuals amongst them but still thanks to the Durmand Priory who focus not just in uncovering lost knowledge but spreading that knowledge as well as the own cultural education systems, uneducated individuals of all intelligent races (playable or otherwise) is rare indeed. Like I said, Tyria is likely far more educated than our own modern world – pick a continent, any continent, and Tyria’s educated/uneducated ratio is likely better than what you picked.

Alright I guess I am a bit wrong on the human education. I never played a human character, so I do not know the humans in deep detail. I just know the general picture.

Being educated doesn’t mean they cannot be manipulated though. One step at a time the propaganda machines might slowly creep their way in.

Narcemus.1348:

CHIPS.6018:

Narcemus.1348:

CHIPS.6018:

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Watchknights, killing 10000 humans for every 1 human it protects. Great success!

That’s why Queen Jeenah should abdicate her throne. Her “gift to humanity” failed big time. She cannot run this nation.

She may have better luck as a mesmer fighting for the Pact.

That’s like saying YOU should be punished, because a thief stole your car, and then he or she proceeded to try and mow down as many innocent people as they could.

Ok let’s go to an alternative universe on Earth, in Japan 1940. The battleship Yamato has just been completed. The demigod emperor was making a public speech in front of tens of thousands of civilians, about how Yamato will protect their nation.

Suddenly the Yamato turn its 45 calibre guns toward the crowd and open fire. In an hour thousands of civilians were killed.

It turns out the Yamato malfunctioned. Its computers (remember, alternative universe) has an error that identified the crowd as a threat.

Of course by logic the demigod emperor will loss support. His promise of protection was broken as soon as he made that promise, literally less than 5 minutes after he made that promise. The very weapon that was introduced ends up killing thousands of civilians before it ever protected anybody.

The only way the emperor won’t loss support would be that he is viewed as a demigod. And the Japanese subjects have 100% unquestioning loyalty to him.

Here is the problem: Queen Jennah is not a demigod queen.

Yeah, you forgot to mention that Americans hijacked the system and forced it to shoot on the populace.

You are making it sound like the system just malfunctioned, which is not the case. The Watchknights would have been great at their jobs if there hadn’t been a malicious force trying to corrupt their systems.

If Queen Jennah said, “Yay Watchknights!” and they started massacring the populace with no outside influence, then yeah, it would be her fault. But the real situation isn’t that way.

Yes by equivalent it would have been the Americans who “hijacked” the Yamato. However it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the emperior introduced the Yamato, the Yamato started killing civilians.

In GW2, it is a FACT that 5 minutes after the Queen introduced the watchknights, the watchknights started killing civilians.

This is a fact. Many people saw this.

And yes this is a political gold mine for Caudecus. His propaganda machines will have a very fun time.

Once again, the truth rarely matters in politics. And this is especially true during war and chaotic times. Propaganda (by Caudecus) against a mostly uneducated population (e.g. medieval) is easy.

Actually you are a little wrong here. In the opening ceremony we had one watchknight attack and attempt to kill Logan. This was when Queen Jennah introduced them to the populace. If we go off of a real world time-scale (which ArenaNet seems to prefer) we had two weeks of perfectly working Watchknights before they were hijacked, not 5 minutes. Similarly, although there were loads of deaths, I do not remember seeing anywhere that there were 10’s of thousands dead. I think you need to stop exaggerating quite so much. Was there perhaps a lack of foresight and planning? Perhaps so, but how do you plan against a complete unknown? For all we know, Queen Jennah had people working night and day trying to prevent any further tampering with the Watchknights before they were finally hijacked. It is just that, we are not privy to all of the information about what was going on, not even Logan was.

I mean, if you want to state that Caudecus will try to use this against Queen Jennah, you might be right, but I highly doubt it will succeed. If anything, Caudecus’ inclusion in an event like that would mean that we, the players, would be siding with Jennah and avidly fighting against Caudecus’ political schemes. The real question is whether ArenaNet thinks a political scandal would be intriguing enough for players without dungeons/zergs/farming. I know many players who would, but there are thousands that just love zerging.

From what I understand, the Queen’s Jubilee was a private showing. Only the nobles and other important people were invited to see the watchknight.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen%27s_Jubilee

It was during the Clockwork Chaos (Queen’s Speech) that the watchknights were introduced to the public. 5 minutes later the watchknights starts killing civilians.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clockwork_Chaos

CHIPS.6018:

Being educated doesn’t mean they cannot be manipulated though. One step at a time the propaganda machines might slowly creep their way in.

And like I said, being uneducated doesn’t mean they can be manipulated.

But honestly, only people in the outskirts of Kryta or in Ebonhawke would believe that Jennah was responsible. And even that’s a stretch. It would be like trying to blame George W. Bush for the actions of Osama Bin Ladin during 911.

Humans aren’t stupid. Not all of them.

CHIPS.6018:

From what I understand, the Queen’s Jubilee was a private showing. Only the nobles and other important people were invited to see the watchknight.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen%27s_Jubilee

It was during the Clockwork Chaos (Queen’s Speech) that the watchknights were introduced to the public. 5 minutes later the watchknights starts killing civilians.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Clockwork_Chaos

The Opening Ceremony was indeed a private showing, but the Closing Ceremony was not the first introduction to the populous. As the names of the instances show, they’re just the opening and the CLOSING.

Clockwork Chaos begins with the end of the Jubilee. The public still had those 2 weeks to see and get used to the Watchknights.

Thank you Konig, for explaining my point before I could get on.

 
i was researching lore the past few days and then i come onto this thread and after glancing through this page i just feel ill stricken.. you should all be so very proud of yourselves.. and i hope arenanet has the decency to delete nearly all of this thread