Guild Wars 2

This stemmed from an RP I’ve currently be running on my character. I just wanted to share my character’s philosophy on the dragons, why they exist, and why she aligns with them because I think it may hold truth to some of the events in the Guildwars universe.

This all starts with Magic. As a world of magic, magic in Tyria is a primal force that is tied to life and creation. This is evident by the leylines of magic that run across Tyria and their importance to the world.

I currently believe that magic in Tyria is shaped by the purpose that it is used for. At its heart, magic is a building block of creation. When magic is used to do evil, that evil is branded into the magic itself. The magic itself becomes “dirty” and corrupted when misused.

Evidence of this is seen in Ascalon. King Adelburn was so vengeful and stubborn that when he broke the magic sword Magdaer, the magic released from the sword carried his rage. Because of his folly, the magic was corrupted and became the foefire. The twisted magic binded all of the souls in Ascalon to Adelburn’s undying will and stubborness. In this example we see how creative magic is transformed by the evils of mortals.

The dragons and perhaps the creators of the dragon’s saw this. I believe that the dragons consume the magic of the world in cycles to prevent mortal races from rampantly corrupting the magical foundation that the world is built on. In the act of consuming the magic, the dragons also cleanse the magic. By cleansing the magic the dragons take all of the corruption instilled within the magic by us mortals unto themselves.

An example of this is in Kryta and Orr. Zhaitan is the dragon that overlooks these lands and because the humans there lived among paradise and the gods they became attached to life and immortality. In these times they used forbidden magic and arts to try to extend their lives and cheat death. Zhaitan absorbed this magic, consuming the unwillingness to submit to the nature cycles of the world and the delusions of grandeur humans had about being divine. This is why he appears as a dragon lich with his corruptive promise being linked to immortality and undeath.

We believe the dragons are evil, but they are not, instead they are mirrors of our own sins. In fact the dragons take our sins upon themselves, becoming creations born by the corruption we instilled in the magic we misused.

Kralkatorrik is a well of loneliness and greed, as Snaff saw when he entered her mind. In Kralkatorrik’s lands, people in grothmar and the deserts became obsessed with hoarding (such as the vabbian princes) because resources were so scarce. They fought each other trying to lay claim due to their greed, so this is the kind of corruption Kralkatorrick swallows.

My character’s theory is that in a proper cycle, the dragons indoctrinate follows via dragon curse, consume the magic, cleanse it, and then sleep (releasing clean magic into the world as they slumber). After this happens, the creatures that are under the dragon curse are released into a world filled with pure magic. A paradise.

But what went wrong? The seers built the bloodstone and now mortals were able to store unclean magic in them between cycles. Races started to destroy themselves and empires have become more powerful than the dragons could manage. Examples of this are the Jotun empire that destroyed themselves, the seers who were destroyed by spectral agony, and the Mursaat who were able to cheat cycles by using magic they are not supposed to have to “phase out of reality” when the dragon cycles begin.

So congratulations, the dragons are actually the good guys and we just wrecked the whole system of balance by downing Zhaitan.

Don’t touch my magic or i will cut you, raise from dead and cut you again.

Soooo Mass effect?

Shadowbane.7109:

Soooo Mass effect?

I think that the dragons and the Reapers and Mass Effect are very close in purpose. Although the reapers were programmed to be how they are since inception. I think that the dragons originally did not start malevolent but were made so by mortal actions.

Shadowbane.7109:

Soooo Mass effect?

I hope not.

My response to the very same topic in another thread:

“I find it really hard to believe the Elder Dragons are the concerned good guys “wanting” to protect Tyria from exploding in a chain-reaction of magical implosion. Dragons, and not just Elder Dragons, absorb magic like sponges – we know that from the Zephyrites who’ve studied Glint’s corpse. While it is more than probable dragonkind actually do keep the level of magic in check, the Elder Dragons are doing what they’re doing out of completely selfish, depraved reasons. It’s like they’ve forgotten they can’t keep the magic they consume in themselves and deny their very nature by trying to feast on all magic in the world. It actually coincides with the overarching theory I’m brewing about the Elder Dragons: they’ve been either corrupted by an unknown force or turned evil/corrupt by themselves, abandoning their purpose and beginning their cycles of (futile) consumption and destruction. Had they not enslaved or murdered a large portion of lesser dragons at the dawn of their cycles, magic would’ve been kept at a steady level for eons to come.

(However, if the reason for the Elder Dragons’ existence is as simple as McCoy makes it sound, ANet will fall into the same trap BioWare made at the end of the Mass Effect trilogy: it’s okay the Reapers (Elder Dragons) are keeping balance in the universe (Tyria) by wiping out/“ascending” organic civilizations (feasting on all magic), but why make them so revoltingly insidious, twisted, and cruel? (Reapers turning people into cybernetic zombies, bombarding heavily populated residential – and not military – zones, dragons corrupting everyone into horrible monstrosities – in Zhaitan’s and Jormag’s case even giving them deranged and evil behavior – and slaughtering innocents and magically insignificant people.) You can be doing the universe/world a favor by doing what must be done, yes, but it doesn’t require perversion and psychopathic torture and murder. Really, really hope the Elder Dragons won’t turn out to be the “good” Reapers saving us all from magic going nuclear fallout on us, but instead corrupted “oathbreakers” of sorts pursuing their own perverted goals… just as EoD, SoS, and most of Guild Wars 2 have shown that.)"

Shadowbane.7109:

Soooo Mass effect?

I choose the blue ending! No wait! Red! Red!

The battle with Zhaitan would’ve been a gazillion times cooler if he uttered phrases like these during the fight:

“WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH CORRUPTION.”
“I AM ZHAITAN, AND THIS NATION IS MINE.”
“OUR WINGS WILL DARKEN THE SKY OF EVERY REALM.”
“WE IMPOSE ORDER ON THE CHAOS OF MAGICAL EVOLUTION.”

And then it turns out that it was the Leviathans who created the Elder Dragons, having the ability to alter the things around them themselves and fled to the reaches of the planet the Elder Dragons cannot reach – just as Scholar Fryxx will predict as he’s already theorized the Leviathans are linked somehow to the Elder Dragons.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And then it turns out that it was the Leviathans who created the Elder Dragons, having the ability to alter the things around them themselves and fled to the reaches of the planet the Elder Dragons cannot reach – just as Scholar Fryxx will predict as he’s already theorized the Leviathans are linked somehow to the Elder Dragons.

lol, you have to admit though. The similarities are there. While its not an exact carbon copy formula, I find it hard to believe some of the writers were not influenced by the mass effect plot with the way the dragons currently operate.

We have also been shown time and time again the dangers to “too much magic:”

-Abaddon’s granting of magic to the mortal humans and the guildwars, which were so bad that the humans begged the gods to take the magic away. This wasn’t even the powerful magic leaked from the dragons, just that which came from the bloodstones.

-The mursaat use of magic to destroy the seers with spectral agony and hegemonically rule kryta from the shadows for many many years.

-King Adelburn as seen above.

-Charr use of magic to bring the searing down on Ascalon, causing the fall of three kingdoms in one day.

-Fall of the Jotun empire, which was so bad it blew them back to the stone age for hundreds -if not thousands of years.

-Thaumanova reactor and the inquest in general.

-Orr and Vizier Khilbron’s sinking of the continent by using powers that he isn’t supposed to have.

-The desolation and the staff of the mists.

History in Tyria shows that magic needs to be control and mortals are not on the level to handle it.

However, Glint may have believed different and may have had faith in that mortals were ready to handle the gift of magic (this statement of course takes effect after her mind was freed). Additionally the Forgotten were able to devise a kind of tech that purifies dragon corruption (or the corruption within the magic itself that causes dragon corruption), which lead to Glint’s mind being freed.

As to the comment about the dragons being malevolent. I think this is a product of the corruption we instill into the magic when we perform bad deeds with it. That corruption is taken into the dragons when they eat the magic. So really, we are the ones corrupting the dragons. Kralkatorrik may have devoured maybe hundreds of years of magic poisoned by mortal greed.

If they really wanted to destroy the world, there would not have been multiple cycles. Also you have to take into account that the dragons are rising and devouring the magic that was already poisoned by the guildwars, one of the bloodiest arcane conflicts in the world.

Perhaps they are corrupted beyond being able to discern their original purpose and may actually wipe out the world this time. Still makes it our fault though.

Small correction- Glint defected because she came to empathize with the intelligent races after the Forgotten freed her mind. It wasn’t some cold judgement or calculation on her part about their capabilities, it was a horror-stricken “what are we doing?”

I like your idea about the Elder Dragons being corrupted by the magic they consume, though. It leads to some interesting theories, and I know of nothing that would speak against it.

I see nothing to persuade me that mortal creatures corrupt magic any more than Elder Dragons do. I see nothing to persuade me that the Elder Dragons will pack their bags and go to home if someone collects a dustbag of all the dirty magic for them. I see nothing to persuade me that dragons release pure magic with a beautiful fragrance that charms the world.

Is Jormag really eating up all the magic that was corrupted by the Norn spirits, Kodan, and Quaggans? I find it hard to believe.

Stooperdale.3560:

I see nothing to persuade me that mortal creatures corrupt magic any more than Elder Dragons do. I see nothing to persuade me that the Elder Dragons will pack their bags and go to home if someone collects a dustbag of all the dirty magic for them. I see nothing to persuade me that dragons release pure magic with a beautiful fragrance that charms the world.

Is Jormag really eating up all the magic that was corrupted by the Norn spirits, Kodan, and Quaggans? I find it hard to believe.

Have you tried Kralkatorrik the new fragrance for men?

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Have you tried Kralkatorrik the new fragrance for men?

Is that the brand name? ;D

On a serious note, if indeed any dignity can be salvaged after that, this is just a theory. Not really any evidence for or against it. No one’s asking you to believe, Stooperdale, but then again none of your points are really convincing arguments not to.

Stooperdale.3560:

I see nothing to persuade me that mortal creatures corrupt magic any more than Elder Dragons do. I see nothing to persuade me that the Elder Dragons will pack their bags and go to home if someone collects a dustbag of all the dirty magic for them. I see nothing to persuade me that dragons release pure magic with a beautiful fragrance that charms the world.

Is Jormag really eating up all the magic that was corrupted by the Norn spirits, Kodan, and Quaggans? I find it hard to believe.

No the magic that is fueling Jormag’s corruption in my eyes is what was left over when the ancient Jotun empire nuked itself with arcane power because they were power hungry sorceror kings. That magic lingered in the shiverpeaks and now Jormag is sucking it up, growing more powerful in corruption due to it.

lordhelmos.7623:

lol, you have to admit though. The similarities are there. While its not an exact carbon copy formula, I find it hard to believe some of the writers were not influenced by the mass effect plot with the way the dragons currently operate.

Oh, I doubt it. Though the first game came out in 2007 if memory serves me right, the theme of world enders hibernating through cycles is an old classic to modern fantasy (and perhaps science fiction and most likely science fantasy (like GW2 is)) stories. Dragons being the ones who’re hibernating waiting to redominate the world after all life ended for xyz reason even more common – one rather easy-to-point-at example being the movie Reign of Fire.

lordhelmos.7623:

-Fall of the Jotun empire, which was so bad it blew them back to the stone age for hundreds -if not thousands of years.

That was hardly caused by magic, but pride and desire for conflict. Arguably so for the conflicts after Abaddon gifted magic – give any society whom is not tranquil power and they shall wage war, magic or technology.

In fact, in all of your examples, magic is merely a tool that is used to bring devastation – it is not the cause of the devastation but a medium for it. The cause is the ones using magic, the ones who would wage wars even without magic.

And in that regard, I’m not sure how magic can be corrupted, twisted, whatever by how one uses it. I mean, yes it can be used to twist and change – Abaddon did this, the Elder Dragons are doing it, on a smaller scale Elementalists, Necromancers, and even Mesmers are doing this. By its very nature magic is something that changes things – the user defines whether it changes things for the good or for the bad. But I cannot see why or how – let alone any evidence to support – magic could be turned into some… miasmic-like substance.

lordhelmos.7623:

If they really wanted to destroy the world, there would not have been multiple cycles.

I would think it is impossible for even six opposing armies to truly wipe out all life – especially when life can come again from another world (like humanity did). Life would eventually evolve again, and there’s also the fact that once the Elder Dragons consume so much magic they begin to starve – apparently six of them on a single world is too many (possibly why they’re not allied – not enough food to go around).

lordhelmos.7623:

No the magic that is fueling Jormag’s corruption in my eyes is what was left over when the ancient Jotun empire nuked itself with arcane power because they were power hungry sorceror kings. That magic lingered in the shiverpeaks and now Jormag is sucking it up, growing more powerful in corruption due to it.

Except that, once more, the jotun didn’t kill each other with magic. Not fully. Y’see, all of their magic was once absorbed into the Bloodstone – before their petty civil wars. And their magic users were the first to be killed off in the battles when they did come about.

And even if such magic could be influenced by the acts and the jotun did use a lot of magic for killing, then it would have been so long ago – and after the previous rise – that it wouldn’t be so affective especially in comparison to the magic of the norn and kodan which are modern and present, thus would be more potent. Magic may be hard to destroy but there’s no reason to believe that unused magic would be so potent and collective after several centuries.

Tyria is starting to sound like Babylon 5.

Either my reading comprehension is crap or the Elder Dragons are kinda the bad guys here.