Guild Wars 2

Ok, so I haven’t finished Destiny’s Edge, and I haven’t finished the third GW2 book either, so I apologize if I miss any obvious information, but I’m curious what the current status is with Logan and Queen Jennah.

I know Logan “likes” the Queen, but to what extent? Are they in a relationship? If so, would that even be allowed or would it be a conflict of interest?

Logan obviously is still working on impressing her, as seen in the Queen’s Gauntlet instance, but personally, Jennah has always seemed more indifferent to Logan, keeping him at arms length.

What are your opinions?

Logan is the one in the dress. Jennah is clearly the only one in the relationship wearing pants. Come to think of it, Logan wears the dress in his relationship with Rytlock, too. Why is he such a Nancy?

Logan and Jennah are mutually in love but not in a relationship due to the potential ramifications of the Ministry using said relationship to undermine Jennah further.

Iirc thus is explained in the human lvl 28 storyline. Regardless of order choice.

If you talk to Logan and Jennah during the Human story quest (the part where you finally choose your order permanently), Logan says that he loves Jennah more than Kryta. Queen Jennah to him IS Kryta. Queen Jennah on the other hand has feelings for him too but because she is the queen she cannot be in a relationship although she mentions

PC: Captain Thackeray is very worried about you, Your Majesty.
Queen Jennah: Logan? He mustn’t worry…please, tell him I’II be fine. If he is distracted, and gets hurt, I don’t know what I would do.
PC: If I may be so bold, ma’am, the two of you seem to care about one another very much.
Queen Jennah: He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps…

Logan Thackeray: Jennah’s in danger. Stay alert, and if you have an extra moment, be sure to pray. May Lyssa keep her safe!
PC: You really love her, don’t you?
Logan Thackeray: It’s that obvious, huh? Yes. I do. I would gladly give my life for her. She’s everything to me.
PC: She means more to you than Kryta?
Logan Thackeray: Even on my darkest days, her smile gives me hope. If there is purpose in my life, it is to keep her safe. She is Kryta, in my eyes.

This dialogue appears if you join the Priory
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Justice

Something similar is said if you join the Vigil and I’m not sure about the OoW.

All we know for certain is this: he’s hopelessly infatuated with her; she acts more neutral towards him; they aren’t together in any official capacity.

My opinion? If you ask me…well, there’s quite a bit I could say if you ask me. Suffice it to say we’re meant to believe it’s both mutual and genuine, but that’s too easy, and evidence just doesn’t support it. (I do have other thoughts about what the “truth” might be, but I don’t think launching into a full-length headcanon-based essay would be appropriate.)

VitalSuit.1980:

If you talk to Logan and Jennah during the Human story quest (the part where you finally choose your order permanently), Logan says that he loves Jennah more than Kryta. Queen Jennah to him IS Kryta. Queen Jennah on the other hand has feelings for him too but because she is the queen she cannot be in a relationship although she mentions

PC: Captain Thackeray is very worried about you, Your Majesty.
Queen Jennah: Logan? He mustn’t worry…please, tell him I’II be fine. If he is distracted, and gets hurt, I don’t know what I would do.
PC: If I may be so bold, ma’am, the two of you seem to care about one another very much.
Queen Jennah: He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps…

Logan Thackeray: Jennah’s in danger. Stay alert, and if you have an extra moment, be sure to pray. May Lyssa keep her safe!
PC: You really love her, don’t you?
Logan Thackeray: It’s that obvious, huh? Yes. I do. I would gladly give my life for her. She’s everything to me.
PC: She means more to you than Kryta?
Logan Thackeray: Even on my darkest days, her smile gives me hope. If there is purpose in my life, it is to keep her safe. She is Kryta, in my eyes.

This dialogue appears if you join the Priory
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Justice

Something similar is said if you join the Vigil and I’m not sure about the OoW.

Interesting!
I never knew she actually hinted at feelings about Logan, everyone I talk to seems to be under the impression she is stringing him along.

I remember a lore Dev confirming they are actually in love with each other to clear the poorly shown situation in Edge of Destiny. She just has her priorities straight and he’s too clingy.

Kyrel.8942:

I remember a lore Dev confirming they are actually in love with each other to clear the poorly shown situation in Edge of Destiny. She just has her priorities straight and he’s too clingy.

Jennah > Pants, Logan > Skirt. As I said. He’s such a Nancy.

VitalSuit.1980:

If you talk to Logan and Jennah during the Human story quest (the part where you finally choose your order permanently), Logan says that he loves Jennah more than Kryta. Queen Jennah to him IS Kryta. Queen Jennah on the other hand has feelings for him too but because she is the queen she cannot be in a relationship although she mentions

PC: Captain Thackeray is very worried about you, Your Majesty.
Queen Jennah: Logan? He mustn’t worry…please, tell him I’II be fine. If he is distracted, and gets hurt, I don’t know what I would do.
PC: If I may be so bold, ma’am, the two of you seem to care about one another very much.
Queen Jennah: He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps…

Logan Thackeray: Jennah’s in danger. Stay alert, and if you have an extra moment, be sure to pray. May Lyssa keep her safe!
PC: You really love her, don’t you?
Logan Thackeray: It’s that obvious, huh? Yes. I do. I would gladly give my life for her. She’s everything to me.
PC: She means more to you than Kryta?
Logan Thackeray: Even on my darkest days, her smile gives me hope. If there is purpose in my life, it is to keep her safe. She is Kryta, in my eyes.

This dialogue appears if you join the Priory
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Justice

Something similar is said if you join the Vigil and I’m not sure about the OoW.

Thanks! I didn’t pay enough attention to that bit.

Basically, in a reverse of the normal gender norms, Jennah is the one who is pressured into not showing her feelings except among her most trusted retainers. Since most of our interactions with Jennah have been in public or semipublic situations, this means that we’re usually seeing the facade.

Logan, on the other hand, has much more freedom to show his feelings – in medieval courts, it was quite acceptable and even expected for knights to proclaim their love for a woman who it was socially unacceptable for them to actually court (because she is married, well above his station, or whatever) as long as it stayed there. Their relationship seems to be publicly of this form of ‘courtly love’ – Logan professes his love for Jennah but isn’t really a threat to anyone looking to marry into the royal line, oh no.

But in the rare occasions where the facade drops, though, there is more to it than that.

Of course this is only what we actually get to see. Jennah is an excellent politician so she appears to keep her distance, and Logan has the luxury of being a soldier so he gets to show a little passion, but not a lot.

Behind closed doors it’s anyone’s guess.

I think there are a few issues the two have. Some have been touched on. I think another is that Jennah recognises that Logan is too obsessively protective of her. This bothers her for two reasons. I think one is that she realises the extent of his obsession is tied to his guilt over the break up of Destiny’s Edge and snakitten death. After all if Jennah dies Logan’s choice was for nothing.

Jennah says herself that she needs a partner from him, not another servant.

The other issue is that Jennah wants to avoid tying Logan down. Logan is a notable hero and a member of Destiny’s Edge. Thats a big deal. Destiny’s Edge was the first group to really start taking down Dragon Champions. We see it more often now but beforehand the Dragon Champions were considered almost as undefeatable as the Dragons themselves. Logan can do great good against the ED and for the world. But he needs to get out to do it.

There is one line where Jennah comments that as much as she wants too she cant keep Logan for herself. The Tyria needs its heroes. I think she realises that is was somewhat of a mistake to make Logan her champion when he was with Destiny’s Edge because it robbed Logan of the freedom to act free of her.

Thats my take on it. I think she feels that persuing romance with Logan would be selfish and not be what Logan or Tyria really need right now. Jennah’s a very duty first kind of girl. She would have to be considering how her young life has been.

That said, she’s apparently been ruling for ten years now. It’s not clear at which age she was old enough to pass on the regency, but unlike Elizabeth 1 there isn’t a clear heir apparent, but unless Tyrian women remain fertile for longer there’s probably going to be an increasing pressure for her to at least start trying for an heir before she reaches her 20th.

There’s also nothing really wrong with them being in a relationship without being together all the time – in fact, from a political and military standpoint it’s probably better for the royal consort to be spending a reasonable amount of time out in the world acting in the queen’s name. The main issue is getting Logan to accept that… which to the end of the PS it seems that he has.

I don’t think naming him her champion, in that respect, was a mistake. The problem is that Logan interpreted it as ‘personal bodyguard and defender’ for so many years… which is really Anise’s job. The job of a champion is to, well, champion the causes, honour, and interests of the beneficiary wherever it needs to be championed, regardless of whether it’s at the beneficiary’s side or halfway across the world.

Lutinz.6915:

The other issue is that Jennah wants to avoid tying Logan down.

Bit late for that, what with her being able to magically yank him across Tyria on a whim.

While I don’t like Logan, I think he’s in a really unenviable position because he can’t serve in two important positions at the same time, which is bound to go very bad sooner or later as Snaff’s death shows. This needs to be resolved sooner or later. As it is, he can’t really be trusted.

Thats my take on it. I think she feels that persuing romance with Logan would be selfish and not be what Logan or Tyria really need right now. Jennah’s a very duty first kind of girl. She would have to be considering how her young life has been.

Agreed. She should really let him go completely — or make him go, since he probably would not want to, what with his constant “JENNAH!!!”-this and “JENNAH!!!”-that. The guy needs to get a grip, that sort of raging obsession would not make for a healthy relationship anyway.

That said, I still think Anise is a colossal jerkstain for pulling that stunt with the Rytlock illusion, both towards Logan AND towards Rytlock. I’d like to see her flippant use of a famous charr tribune’s form and voice, especially as an enemy, to have some diplomatic fallout. She just reeks of poncy, spoiled, egotisticial noble who thinks she can get do whatever she wants. Seeing someone like that get ripped a new one once in her life would be so very sweet.

What I find strange, is that when you do the Caudecus Manor story dungeon, it seems as if Jennah is just using him. We were having a big laugh about it on Skype as we were commenting on the cut scenes. It really feels like Jennah is just constantly letting Logan down, and making him do her dirty work.

Making others do your dirty work is what being a human noble is all about. :p

Chadramar.8156:

Making others do your dirty work is what being a human noble is all about. :p

Hey, that’s why I’m playing a human noble as well. :P

Poor Logan. I suppose that the mutual aspect of their relationship perhaps is better explained in the books. But in the game it really feels one-sided. It makes Logan look like the dumb loyal oaf, and Jennah like an abusive girlfriend.

Drakkon.4782:

Kyrel.8942:

I remember a lore Dev confirming they are actually in love with each other to clear the poorly shown situation in Edge of Destiny. She just has her priorities straight and he’s too clingy.

Jennah > Pants, Logan > Skirt. As I said. He’s such a Nancy.

He is, but haven’t you ever been in love to the point that it impaired your better judgement? Not to get all real-life philosophical on this whole thing, but I think thats a part of being human, that weird sort of infatuation, Logan is just stuck in that state and can’t do anything about it. He certainly needs to re-evaluate his priorities, but I don’t fault him for his love for Jennah, or not taking command in that relationship, because she is still his queen.

Zyphent, I agree he can’t really be “blamed” for the feeling, per se, of being in love/lust/obsession/whatever with Jennah. But I don’t agree that he cannot do anything about it. As you say yourself, he needs to re-evaluate his priorities, or “get a grip” as I put it and learn to better control himself. We may not be able to choose what we feel, but we can choose what to do about it. This is for his sake AND hers, because a consort who flies off the handle when his “love” is concerned and has a one-track mind in that regard would be bad for any ruler. If he won’t do that, she has to continue keeping him at a distance, even without considering his role in Destiny’s Edge.

Incidentally, Drakkon, could you please not equate a stereotypical female role (wearing a skirt) with inferiority and a stereotypical male role (wearing pants) with superiority? There are some rather painful implications for both men and women in there.

Chadramar.8156:

Incidentally, Drakkon, could you please not equate a stereotypical female role (wearing a skirt) with inferiority and a stereotypical male role (wearing pants) with superiority? There are some rather painful implications for both men and women in there.

Dont worry about the pants thing, its just an expression.

Chadramar.8156:

Bit late for that, what with her being able to magically yank him across Tyria on a whim.

No she doesn’t.

She has the ability to communicate telepathically with him – supposedly across much greater distances than Ebonhawke→Glint’s Lair, but she can’t just go ringing a mesmeric bell and poof, Logan appears in a puff of butterfly smoke.

And he’s not even forced into going to her if she calls – it’s 100% his choice.

Ahh, then I have misread the wiki. I read “call him” as in summon him, not “call TO him”, which is what it actually reads. Thanks for pointing that out!

Zomaarwat.3912:

Chadramar.8156:

Incidentally, Drakkon, could you please not equate a stereotypical female role (wearing a skirt) with inferiority and a stereotypical male role (wearing pants) with superiority? There are some rather painful implications for both men and women in there.

Dont worry about the pants thing, its just an expression.

I’m frankly surprised he had a problem with the skirt issue, instead of the Nancy issue. Priorities are weird…

I’m not a native speaker so I don’t know every English expression. Regardless, what it boils down to is that male = good/superior, female = bad/inferior, and that is NOT “just an expression” but an attitude that permeates our society, and the gaming industry, in a pretty big way.

Chadramar.8156:

I’m not a native speaker so I don’t know every English expression. Regardless, what it boils down to is that male = good/superior, female = bad/inferior, and that is NOT “just an expression” but an attitude that permeates our society, and the gaming industry, in a pretty big way.

Back here (Slovakia) we have a very similar expresion, along the lines that “she is the man in the relationship”. Thing is, in our (and basically most of the other cultures) the man is considered the “head” of the family (and the woman is the neck, I know, but that´s not what I´m saying). I know that today the lines here are getting blured (men taking maternity leave and such), but it is still rooted in our culture and expected to man be “the one who decides”. If the woman is the more prominent, the things like this are bound to be told… Important is to understand, that it could be normal, as long as it is healthy to the relationship. But when the man (for example, Logan, to stay on topic here :P) is just a loyal puppy that has (or don´t want to has) no real word in relationship, I´m sorry, but he is a woman in that relationship. In a nutshell, as long as someone is using it only as a figure of speech and is not thinking that women are inferior and to be ruled by men, it´s OK
On the other hand, it´s more complicated than that with Logan, since his “girlfriend” actually IS his queen, so she basically has to rule him

… so how does the assumption that men must naturally dominate women NOT equal thinking women are inferior? How is insulting men by likening them to or calling them women NOT a sign of abject sexist contempt?

draxynnic.3719:

That said, she’s apparently been ruling for ten years now. It’s not clear at which age she was old enough to pass on the regency, but unlike Elizabeth 1 there isn’t a clear heir apparent, but unless Tyrian women remain fertile for longer there’s probably going to be an increasing pressure for her to at least start trying for an heir before she reaches her 20th.

They do remain fertile for longer. Captain Isaye was 55 when she gave birth to Cobiah’s son.

About Logan suffering courtly love that Jennah can’t return in the public: that’s true, but only because in these dark times they don’t want to give their enemies more opportunities by openly admitting their relationship – a thing they’ve already failed at, as it’d seem. Logan is a descendant of two of Ascalon’s greatest heroes. The fact that there’s a Thackeray family badge also implies the family was of the nobility (or became noble in Ebonhawke). Logan has all the requirements to be a proper fit for the Queen, it’s just not viable in these dragon-haunted times to have their bond publicly immortalized before a priestess of Lyssa.

Does nobility automatically mean he’s fit to wed a Queen?

I mean, there are many kinds of nobility. Maybe the requirements in Kryta are a bit higher. I’m sure there are tons of nobles in Divinity’s Reach, but I doubt they are all in a position to wed the Queen.

If this is the case, then Logan really is a fool. He would be chasing after a girl he can never be with, ever. Not even in secret.

They are already together in secret, and I’m sure Logan has made her shatter many illusions of pleasure since their fateful meeting.

Who else is she going to marry? There’s nothing above human nobility right now.

Kryta is the only human kingdom (queendom…) now, so it’s not like Jennah is going to get a political wedding with some dude from Orr or Ascalon.I think prominent bandit or separatist leaders are also out of the picture…. let alone get wed outside of her own race.

I actually wouldn’t mind a happy end for the two of them, but I guess the personal story immortalized the friendzone they’re both in. :\

But marrying some count or highly placed nobleman would surely be a better match than a military commander? Just the mere fact that he’s in command of the Seraph should exclude him from marriage to the Queen.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But marrying some count or highly placed nobleman would surely be a better match than a military commander? Just the mere fact that he’s in command of the Seraph should exclude him from marriage to the Queen.

Why is that? Such a “reason” sounds pretty nonsensical to me.

Thalador.4218:

Why is that? Such a “reason” sounds pretty nonsensical to me.

Being the commander of the Seraph, means he serves the Queen. You can’t be both in command of the cities armed forces, and married to the person you’re serving. Thus making any other nobleman with political influence a much better match. They are people of wealth, people with political connections, and people with important families. In days of yore, marriages between royal house holds were always a matter of politics.

You marry to the one most likely to give you more wealth, power or influence. Not to someone who is in your employment.

With the supreme commander of the Krytan army bound to you in love, you have gained full control over the military. If Caudecus or his goons dissent, you can remove them without any hassle at all – or fear some rogue commander in the corrupt ministers’ pocket might attempt a coup.

Chadramar.8156:

I’m not a native speaker so I don’t know every English expression. Regardless, what it boils down to is that male = good/superior, female = bad/inferior, and that is NOT “just an expression” but an attitude that permeates our society, and the gaming industry, in a pretty big way.

I can see how that would be confusing to you. As the rest of the reference is being ignored, you’re missing out on some finer points of implication. I wasn’t implying that being a male was good and being a female was kittenuch moral judgments cannot be made and stand up to the light of scrutiny.

No, but invoking the term “nancy”, which is an older slang term for an effeminate man, usually a homosexual, I was invoking the duality of dominant/submissive relationship, and implying, as others have pointed out, rightly so that Jennah is the one who commands in this relationship, and that Logan, by “wearing the skirt”, is the petite little housewife, a traditionally submissive role reserved to women in mid-last century American culture. While the references were a little dated, I think that they should have come through more clearly, which makes all this bickering by people essentially saying I was wrong and then repeating what I said in a different way quite amusing to me.

tl;dr: All I did was question Logan’s masculinity in an archaic manner.

And “questioning” anyone’s “masculinity” is STILL a jerk move. As I have said before on these forums, no one gets to deny another’s gender identity, period. You’re not a shred “more of a man” for marching in lockstep with a toxic status quo, and not a shred less for “failing” to.

You can call it “bickering” and be “amused” by it, but it doesn’t change that it was you who used these degrading gender-stereotyping terms that only serve to perpetuate the old attitudes of woman/gay = bad/inferior. “Archaic” those terms may be, but the attitudes are very much alive, and they cause a whole bloody lot of harm to many people.

Call Logan a traitor or obsessive or in need of growing up and getting a grip of his hormones, and I’d even agree with you. But every time a man or male character is called a pansy or sissy or nancy or a skirt or p-whipped little b-word, I wince at the sheer amount of contempt it implies for both genders.

Drakkon.4782:

Chadramar.8156:

I’m not a native speaker so I don’t know every English expression. Regardless, what it boils down to is that male = good/superior, female = bad/inferior, and that is NOT “just an expression” but an attitude that permeates our society, and the gaming industry, in a pretty big way.

tl;dr: All I did was question Logan’s masculinity in an archaic manner.

I think that’s the problem Chadramar is having with your comment, judging by their responses.

EDIT: Chadramar respond before I did confirming my theory.

@Chadramar: Logan isn’t a traitor no matter how you look at it. Logan chose to save the queen, placing his race above the needs of the others. Each one of the Destiny’s Edge would of made the same decision, just look how easy it was for them to break after Snaff’s Death. I think Snaff was the only one who actually kept the hostilities between them at bay, something most of the members wouldn’t acknowledge.

Chadramar.8156:

I’m not a native speaker so I don’t know every English expression. Regardless, what it boils down to is that male = good/superior, female = bad/inferior, and that is NOT “just an expression” but an attitude that permeates our society, and the gaming industry, in a pretty big way.

Luckily it hasn’t permeated Arenanet. I know for sure they support equality between males and females. I’ve seen very specific instances in guild wars 2, where both males and females are ranked equally. A most recent example would be Kiel and Evon (pay special attention to their First Mates). Other examples would be the leaders of the three different orders.

Chadramar.8156:

And “questioning” anyone’s “masculinity” is STILL a jerk move. As I have said before on these forums, no one gets to deny another’s gender identity, period. You’re not a shred “more of a man” for marching in lockstep with a toxic status quo, and not a shred less for “failing” to.

You can call it “bickering” and be “amused” by it, but it doesn’t change that it was you who used these degrading gender-stereotyping terms that only serve to perpetuate the old attitudes of woman/gay = bad/inferior. “Archaic” those terms may be, but the attitudes are very much alive, and they cause a whole bloody lot of harm to many people.

Call Logan a traitor or obsessive or in need of growing up and getting a grip of his hormones, and I’d even agree with you. But every time a man or male character is called a pansy or sissy or nancy or a skirt or p-whipped little b-word, I wince at the sheer amount of contempt it implies for both genders.

“Getting a grip on his hormones” is fine to point out, but “called a pansy or sissy or nancy…I wince”…

Wow. I’m not certain you get how stupid that sounds. You’re saying the exact same thing, just using a different turn of phrase and it’s fine, but using blunt language is bad. “Get a grip on your hormones” is just another way of saying “Stop being a v*****.” At least I had the decency not to be so crude, but you just said that you would agree with me for saying the same thing I just said, after degrading me for saying it.

I don’t think I’m the one out of step here.

And Logan is a whining little emo brat. Jennah has emasculated him completely, and he’s fine with that. He’s happier being emo than he is consummating his romantic dreams with her. All she had to do was admit she had feeling for him, too, and he’s suddenly walking on air, at her beck and call, and can get back to killing Elder Dragons, but he still is a pansy nancy boy. That’s just how he’s written. You can not like me for pointing it out, but you can’t say I’m wrong. Sorry.

logan shall be friendzoned.. and i shall laugh

Getefix.9150:

logan shall be friendzoned.. and i shall laugh

He already has been. Logan isn’t a Human. He’s an oversized puppy dog. Jennah treats him like a cherished pet, not a lover or potential husband. He’s the biggest sword-wielding puppy in the game, and that includes the Wolfborn Norn.

Chadramar.8156:

… so how does the assumption that men must naturally dominate women NOT equal thinking women are inferior? How is insulting men by likening them to or calling them women NOT a sign of abject sexist contempt?

You know, you had a point, but as I said, as long as one does not think women are inferior and men are to rule the world, it´s just a figure of speech, nothing more (for example, none english figure of speech comes to mind, but here, if you had a bad day, you can say you had a “dog´s day”. Does that mean I hate dogs and they should have bad days all their lives? Hell no! I love dogs and they have often better days than I have. You just say that because there is this phrase existing).
It has it´s roots in the past, when women were considered less than men. It´s just about cultures and gender roles. When someone say that a man is the head of the family, is that sexist too? If there was a matriarchy and men would act superior in the relationship, other would go like “she is a man in that relationship, lol, he basicaly rules her, that´s insane!”
You are right that it´s based on assumptions and gender roles, but at the end of the day, it´s just a figure of the speech. You can say that like any other and no being sexist. It´s the ones approach that does matter.
Anyway, as I said, you got a point, but it´s the matter of the angle you are looking at it. If this offended you, I´m sorry
(and let be done with this, this topic is about running awa… I mean, Logan and Jennah :P)

None of it matters really. As we all know, in the end woman inherits the earth anyway.

:)

@Drakkon: everyone has hormones, and people who fall in love/lust/obsession are strongly affected by them. There’s a difference between that and hurling gendered slurs that debase both men and women and show attitudes that lead to great harm for many people of any gender and sexual orientation.

Maybe you have the immense privilege of not having to give a dead rat’s last fart because YOU are not affected by these attitudes, but they exist.

Chadramar.8156:

and show attitudes that lead to great harm for many people of any gender and sexual orientation.

Show demonstrable harm. Hyperbole is one thing, but if you’re going to make a criminal act out of it, I require you to show the demonstrable harm here. Otherwise, ratchet your rhetoric back down a little, put on your big boy pants and stop taking forum comments personally.

I’m only mocking imaginary entities that are poorly written, badly actualized, and reflect the worst stereotypical traits of the melodramatic genre. The only insult is the poor writing put into the pair and the way they’ve been inflicted upon us. Your mileage my vary.

Edge of destiny makes it seem like she mind kitten d him imo but I think we are supposed to believe that it is a genuine love connection.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Edge of destiny makes it seem like she mind kitten d him imo but I think we are supposed to believe that it is a genuine love connection.

It’s just bad writing. A dev said sometime after EoD’s release that the love is both genuine and mutual.

Drakkon.4782:

Show demonstrable harm. Hyperbole is one thing, but if you’re going to make a criminal act out of it, I require you to show the demonstrable harm here.

… you don’t believe language that persistently degrades and abuses people for their gender, sexual orientation or gender-non-conformity causes harm? I guess the increased risk of mental health problems, self-harm, suicide or school dropouts of, say, bullied gay kids is not real then. It doesn’t take outright hatespeech to negatively affect people, either. There are reports that girls perform worse at certain subjects when their surroundings expect them to because “everyone knows” that girls are bad at math.

Seriously, Drakkon, reading this sort of thing is borderline triggering. You may not intend it as such, but believe me: it’s exactly what many abusive people do. Engage in hurtful language/behavior, persist when politely asked to stop, deny there is a problem, accuse the other person of “hyperbole” or being overly sensitive or unable to take a joke. I’ve experienced deliberate bullying countless times in this way, and I’ve read and heard from many folks who went through much worse still. I won’t reply to this any further because it is honestly very hard to deal with at this point.

I’m only mocking imaginary entities that are poorly written, badly actualized, and reflect the worst stereotypical traits of the melodramatic genre.

It’s perfectly possible to do that without perpetuating sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, ableist or otherwise bigoted attitudes. Not only that, bringing that sort of thing into a discussion about questionable characterization, shoddy dialog or an author’s failure to establish a believable relationship blurs the whole issue.

This was an interesting thread until the word ‘friendzone’ popped up.

How did a thread about two extremely shallow and boring characters, evolve into a discussion regarding bigotry towards the sexes?