Guild Wars 2

During the personal story we learned that because Orr was already destroyed, Zhaitan met virtually no resistance while raising his Risen army and as a result had the largest army and posed the most immediate threat at the time.

Considering how the new dragon was able to terrify Scarlet and drive her insane despite being as powerful as she was, it seems this new dragon is pretty kitten.

Also, do you think Primordus probably is the strongest of all the dragons overall and will probably be the last dragon we face, since he was the dragon associated with Eye of the North and was the first to wake up?

Sundar.1735:

Considering how the new dragon was able to terrify Scarlet and drive her insane despite being as powerful as she was, it seems this new dragon is pretty kitten.

We don’t have any evidence that confirms this new Elder Dragon was behind Scarlet’s actions, as in was the entity that was driving her. All information we currently have just shows us it was the one that benefited the most from her activities, particularly her drilling the leyline nexus beneath Lion’s Arch.

I don’t really think there’s a proper comparison.

The Movement of the World calls Zhaitan (then dubbed the Orrian Dragon) to be the strongest of them. But given that they become stronger by consuming magic, it’s hard to say really.

• Zhaitan had a buffet made for him by the Six Gods who brought so many magical artifacts to Orr, and there was the whole nation ready to be made for him. I think Zhaitan acted prematurely because he had so much given to him so easily, I think it underestimated everything – it was also the closest dragon thus there was a more immenent threat from it than to the other Elder Dragons.
• Primordus has six asuran cities the size of Rata Sum to consume, not to mention any labs they left. He’s also bound to be closer to the ley lines. And he’s been consuming magic for twice as long as Zhaitan.
• Jormag has been collecting kodan magical artifacts, perhaps norn and quaggan ones too, but otherwise is unknown for having magical sources. Unlike Primordus though, it is actively pushing south and had consumed a Spirit of the Wild (that’s got to be a big meal).
• Kralkatorrik just woke up and went right to the Crystal Desert. Almost died. It’s recalling its forces south (intentionally or not is unknown), but though the Crystal Desert is magical it’s full of Forgotten magic – which cannot be corrupted by the Elder Dragon for unknown reasons.
• Mordremoth just woke up too, and unlike what you said Sundar, we have no indicationt hat Mordremoth (or its champion) is the entity, so we can’t say it scared Scarlet. However, thanks to Scarlet it’s being given a LOT of magic via the ley line, and the Maguuma Jungle holds not only a Bloodstone, but other ancient magics.

My opinion of who’s going to be the toughest dragon to kill? The deep sea dragon. Why?

1. It forced out the karka, largos, and krait. They are among the top dog races hands down. And it did so to the krait when it just woke up. No other dragon managed such – even Jormag took over 4 years before affecting the norn after waking up, and Kralkatorrik may have caused the Dragonbrand, but he didn’t really do the charr much damage.
2. It has near instant access to the krait obelisks. They’re compared to the Bloodstones which contain a lot of magic.
3. It has had nothing to confront it – unlike the other dragons, after it displaced the krait, largos, karka, and by extension the quaggans 50 years ago, the DSD has seemingly been without conflict.

I would rate Jormag as second-strongest since it shattered the largest mountains (Shiverpeaks) when waking up, and topped iceburg sanctuaries and then pushed the norn south after a 4 year long blizzard and devoured a Spirit of the Wild.

Though Mordremoth may be high up too. Not really sure about him.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

My opinion of who’s going to be the toughest dragon to kill? The deep sea dragon. Why?

1. It forced out the karka, largos, and krait. They are among the top dog races hands down. And it did so to the krait when it just woke up. No other dragon managed such – even Jormag took over 4 years before affecting the norn after waking up, and Kralkatorrik may have caused the Dragonbrand, but he didn’t really do the charr much damage.
2. It has near instant access to the krait obelisks. They’re compared to the Bloodstones which contain a lot of magic.
3. It has had nothing to confront it – unlike the other dragons, after it displaced the krait, largos, karka, and by extension the quaggans 50 years ago, the DSD has seemingly been without conflict.

Not to mention the Deep Sea Dragon already has a massive advantage in naval combat. Sure the Pact may recruit the Largos prior to going into battle, and I guess the quaggans as well, but the bulk of the Pact’s forces have quite a disadvantage in underwater combat. Knock off our rebreather and we be struggling to find a source of air. There also the possibility that it would pick the battleground to be in the deepest portions of the ocean, where the pressure of those depths could prove problematic not only to our bodies but also our equipment.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Knock off our rebreather and we be struggling to find a source of air.

Find your nearest sylvari and kiss for a long time. Problem solved. :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Find your nearest sylvari and kiss for a long time. Problem solved. :P

I don’t know why, but this made me laugh till I got into a coughing fit. Out of curiosity, can Sylvari actually breath underwater without the rebreater?

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

I realized that after the headache from the coughing fit had subsided. Anyways there is a problem, my character’s an Asura with an large mouth. Then again I wouldn’t be found participating in the assault as I’m not a fan of underwater environments.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

Stumbled on a conversation between two Asura in Brisban where one mentions that Sylvari do photosynthesis, and the other mentioned that no one has any idea how Sylvari work. So I guess that’s a maybe.

Just gotta note, you won’t be able to see much or fight much when… “Tongue Tied” to a sylvari, lol.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

This is common to think plants do the reverse in breathing but from a biological perspective. Anet may have other ideas but, Sylvari, like actual plants, would undergo photosynthesis AND respiration( plants respire as well!), but the latter far more since they move and require large amounts of energy to do so. Thus meaning Sylvari too would need oxygen as we do in arguably the same amounts as we do.Yes Id imagine they take in some CO2 but as Anet said, unlike other plants, Sylvari cant thrive off of photosynthesis as heavily as normal plants. So unfortunately youd be breathing in carbon dioxide for the most part if you kissed them for air :p

ArenaNet was saying that in relation to saying that sylvari need to eat and drink to gain energy – that they cannot thrive solely off of photosynthesis.

Whether they breath oxygen or CO2 is up in the air (no pun intended).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet was saying that in relation to saying that sylvari need to eat and drink to gain energy – that they cannot thrive solely off of photosynthesis.

Whether they breath oxygen or CO2 is up in the air (no pun intended).

Yeah thats why I said, from a bio perspective. Quite frankly, I dunno what Anet wants to do with these guys. I’m just saying, you get energy from food and drink via respiration which requires oxygen but then again hey may come around and say it’s all magic, the sylvari use magic and then even more fan theories will develope about how each sylvari will actually grow into a Mordremoth and how Mordremoth was really the first sylvari 10k years old and yadda yadda blah blah yap yap etc etc

RedSpectrum.1975:

how Mordremoth was really the first sylvari 10k years old and yadda yadda blah blah yap yap etc etc

Hey that’s not a bad twist.

I dont think bubbles has forced out the largos yet, I think they’re fighting it.

It’s kind of hard to call which elder dragon is the strongest, Zhaitan shouldn’t be ruled out because of the size of his force unless we’re talking about just elder dragon to elder dragon and not their armies.

I’d say probably Jormag. He kills spirits of the wild and doesn’t afraid of anything. He seems to have the longest reach and is strong enough that the sons of sons of svanir worship him as a spirit of the wild.

My guess is on Bubbles too.

Sayeh initially didn’t care at all about the Risen and the krait orb’s effect against them until the Commander proved themselves to her. If it wasn’t for Trahearne she might have not cared ever about what Zhaitan’s doing.
Then there’s also Master Sdias, a Largos NPC in Mt. Maelstrom who tells us we’re not ready for the horrors of their former home.
(He also says that the Largos only recently traveled to Tyria, so whether some stayed back isn’t sure.)

Even the krait didn’t care that much about the Risen but they /did/ flee from Bubbles.
And their obelisk asides, there could possibly be more magical artifacts down there we don’t know about like the blue orb. Sayeh stated it was found in the deeps by the krait and that it is known to deep dwellers only.
Bubbles also may have an army of corrupted krait, karka, largos, quaggan and leviathans and whatever else didn’t make it out. Dragons usually don’t wake up without corrupting everything around them.

Fear the bubble-blood-bath!

Well really who knows what’s at the bottom of the sea. All we know is that bubbles is down there somewhere, we have no idea if something worse happens to be down there as well.

Besides the Krait didn’t care about the Risen BECAUSE they had the orb and knew they were protected from corruption. They probably even had more orbs, maybe bubbles destroyed that orbs just like Zhaitan tried to take the one we got. Maybe the Krait left once they saw a lot of their villages getting their orbs destroyed and taken over.

Zhaitan seemed to know the orb was what prevented his corruption, he went straight for it. He must’ve learned that at sometime. He almost got away with it too, if it wasn’t for us meddling kids. You’d think that bubbles would make an appearance if he had conquered the entire sea by now, at the very least we should’ve seen some of his minions. There’s something stopping him, we just don’t know what.

Jormag however is knocking on Hoelbrek’s front door. The only other dragon that was that close to any city was Zhaitan.

@Rainbow Sprint

Uhhhm there’s never been any indication that there’s more than one orb in their possession or that more than one exist. If they had a reserve of anti-dragon orbs in their territory Sayeh would probably have mentioned that. And it’s only the Krait in Mt. Maelstrom and Nonmoa lake that had access to it to our knowledge. (Though it’d make sense if the deeps in Terzetto Bay shared it as well. Wth was up with that place. <_>)

The Sparkfly fen ones have undead and even had Tequatl at their doorstep and didn’t care. The Caledon Forest krait live close to undead as well. And every other settlement seems not to give a crap about the threat of dragons as whole and instead continue with their merry sacrificing.

Bubbles forced them out of their homes and they abandoned their most sacred monuments in doing so. Means they acknowledged Bubbles as threat. You’d think if they started feeling cornered and threatened by Zhaitan since there’s nowhere else to go, they’d slowly start to get over their superiority complex… But somehow that doesn’t seem to be the case.
That the Largos don’t care much about Risen nor actively fight them but refer to what’s down there as horrors makes it seem like they share the sentiment towards dragons.

And Jormag I’d place second after Bubbles. Shattering the Shiverpeaks aside, no one even managed to scratch its fang since Aesgeir. Dat popsicle.

The orbs thing is just speculation, that they could have more magical artifacts down there and that Zhaitan knew to target the orb, he must’ve learned that from somewhere.

True the krait didn’t take the risen seriously as the threat, but you know what else? They also died and became risen.

They died and became Risen …and the rest of the krait still doesn’t care. That’s the point. They’re displaying total apathy towards Zhaitan, though we don’t know how they view the rest of the dragons.

Bubbles displaced them in an exodus that could rival the norn’s and they left behind what they valued the most. There was no “lets just sacrifice some whatever and see what happens, can I has prophets pls-thumb twiddling” like they’re doing it now.
If they feared Zhaitan anywhere as much as the DSD, they wouldn’t do that.
The way they act, Zhaitan’s a much lesser evil, one they can afford waiting through until ‘their prophets arrive’.

Yes but all the zones are locked in time. The krait in the sylvari starter zone are from before than ever happened. We never saw anymore krait between when that happened and when Zhaitan died. The centaurs arn’t beating on the door of divinity’s reach like they were at the start of the game, but the zones don’t change to reflect that. That story keeps going as you go through the zones.

Hell Orr is still infested with risen that apperently keep rising even after Zhaitan died. All the zones are locked in time and you have to understand what happened in what order.

1. The zones aren’t necessarily locked in time, though the lore/gameplay distinction is something that deserves its own thread IMO. I think discussing that would completely derail this poor topic. P:

2. Zhaitan awoke 100 years ago. The krait left their homes 50 years ago. We know for certain that the Strait of Malchor was completely controlled by him. I think it’s rather safe to assume that the krait had to fight through Zhaitan’s forces on their exodus, which means zones or not they already had to deal with the Risen.
If they had found the Risen to be worse than the DSD’s minions they could have pulled a 180° turn right there. But they didn’t though they certainly had causalities due to Risen on their way to the shallow waters. So it’s not like they’re completely oblivious to the Risen’s existence or ability to corrupt them.

3. Mt. Maelstrom has this rather awkward example because it also coincides with the PS. But it’s all in one zone. Regardless of whether they had the krait orb during the time this heart takes place or not, there’s the one where you have to take a Risen-illusion to force the krait to fight the Risen. The Risen are already /there/ but downright ignored by the krait until you trick them.
The mail for the quest says:
“The krait are becoming increasingly frustrated with the Risen. Your trickery and misdirection has convinced the snakes that their enemy is the Risen, not us. At this rate, conflict between the two forces is imminent. Good work!”
Then in the same place there’s an event where you help a Largos apprentice defeating a risen krait witch with more undead krait along the way, so it’s not like the krait in this area aren’t affected by the corruption themselves.

Even if they had the krait orb, all it does is prevent corruption – it doesn’t prevent Risen from attacking them. They seemingly just don’t care about the Risen as threat nor the causalities they cause among them.

• Zhaitan was clubbered into submission pretty easily, so I’d put him pretty low on the list.
• Jormag lost a tooth, so he’s clearly not invincible.
• Kralkatorrik, I honestly don’t know. He killed Glint, and has yet to meet his match.
• Primordus seems powerful, but not very big when we see him in Eye of the North. Does size equal strength? I dare not say.
• Mordremoth and Bubbles, we know too little about them to make any definitive claims about their strength. Mordremoth’s mental influence seems to reach far though.

If I had to pick the strongest, I’d probably go with Kralkatorrik or Mordremoth. Although in all fairness, Primordus has been fighting overwhelming numbers of opposition and is still pressing forward. As far as armies go, his army seems quite tough and organized.

I never said Zhaitan forced the krait out of their homes. I just said the krait underestimated Zhaitan and payed the price for it. Ignorance doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not an actual threat.

I am not worried about walking out my door, falling down the steps, and hitting every step on the way down today. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen, or doesn’t have as high a likely hood to happen as other things. That also doesn’t mean it cant kill me as easily as someone with a gun but you still call the guy with the gun more dangerous.

And I didn’t say that Zhaitan forced them out of their homes or that you said that. That’s wrong anyway.
I said they passed Zhaitan’s territory when fleeing from the DSD and dealt with Risen before on their way to Tyria. That negates the idea that the krait in Caledon aren’t aware of losses caused by Risen just because they’re ‘stuck in a zone/time before that’. Because what I said actually happened long before the zone takes place.

Neither did I say that Zhaitan himself isn’t a threat – I said the krait don’t view him as one whereas they saw the DSD as threat. And so do the Largos.
Their delusional zealot-mentality aside, the krait might not view Zhaitan as threat because the price they pay is acceptable or maybe even a joke compared to dealing with Bubbles.

We can’t really call that though. For all we know the krait’s prophet was a krait that did the same sort of thing the spirits of the wild did for the norn and told them to flee to the surface. We know the elder dragons want to hide the fact that they can even be fought against. Maybe they just thought it was hopeless because as krait do, they probably tried to fight alone. After that they had the orb, who knows where they got that (We could really use more information on the orb), why would they be scared knowing that Zhaitan can’t touch them?

Maybe bubbles is just a lot more hands on than Zhaitan was. Zhaitan was all about using his minions, maybe bubbles goes out himself and destroys villages. If Zhaitan flew out and blew hoelbrek away, he might seem a little more intimidating than Kralkatorrik who people are known to have fought and survived.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Mordremoth just woke up too, and unlike what you said Sundar, we have no indicationt hat Mordremoth (or its champion) is the entity, so we can’t say it scared Scarlet. However, thanks to Scarlet it’s being given a LOT of magic via the ley line, and the Maguuma Jungle holds not only a Bloodstone, but other ancient magics.

Correct me if my correction is incorrect (:D) but don’t we learn at the end of the LS that Scarlet’s ley line drilling disrupted the flow of magic, which caused Mordremoth to stir, not feeding it more as was assumed.

dace.8019:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Mordremoth just woke up too, and unlike what you said Sundar, we have no indicationt hat Mordremoth (or its champion) is the entity, so we can’t say it scared Scarlet. However, thanks to Scarlet it’s being given a LOT of magic via the ley line, and the Maguuma Jungle holds not only a Bloodstone, but other ancient magics.

Correct me if my correction is incorrect (:D) but don’t we learn at the end of the LS that Scarlet’s ley line drilling disrupted the flow of magic, which caused Mordremoth to stir, not feeding it more as was assumed.

But that is the cycle. Dragon eats magic, dragon goes to sleep, dragon expels magic, after enough energy is expelled dragon wakes up, and then dragon starts eating magic. Maybe that was the solution to deal with the dragon, it was put to sleep there, on a constant stream of magic that it then expels and that because the same magic it eats, never waking up because it never expels enough magic.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Zhaitan was clubbered into submission pretty easily, so I’d put him pretty low on the list.
• Jormag lost a tooth, so he’s clearly not invincible.
• Kralkatorrik, I honestly don’t know. He killed Glint, and has yet to meet his match.
• Primordus seems powerful, but not very big when we see him in Eye of the North. Does size equal strength? I dare not say.
• Mordremoth and Bubbles, we know too little about them to make any definitive claims about their strength. Mordremoth’s mental influence seems to reach far though.

If I had to pick the strongest, I’d probably go with Kralkatorrik or Mordremoth. Although in all fairness, Primordus has been fighting overwhelming numbers of opposition and is still pressing forward. As far as armies go, his army seems quite tough and organized.

Kralkatorrik got crippled by a single asura mind (mind you, a great asura) and nearly died by Destiny’s Edge minus Logan plus Glint. Jormag slaughtered thousands of norn and kodan (and if norn skaalds are to be believed, hundreds of norn at once) and even killed a Spirit of the Wild – only losing a single tooth in the process, to a norn blessed by multiple Spirits of the Wild and with an ancient jotun (magical?) scroll.

Mordremoth’s mental influence? What mental influence? We have no true indication that Mordremoth was the entity in Scarlet’s mind.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

dace.8019:

Correct me if my correction is incorrect (:D) but don’t we learn at the end of the LS that Scarlet’s ley line drilling disrupted the flow of magic, which caused Mordremoth to stir, not feeding it more as was assumed.

But that is the cycle. Dragon eats magic, dragon goes to sleep, dragon expels magic, after enough energy is expelled dragon wakes up, and then dragon starts eating magic. Maybe that was the solution to deal with the dragon, it was put to sleep there, on a constant stream of magic that it then expels and that because the same magic it eats, never waking up because it never expels enough magic.

@dace: In the cinematic, we see magic traveling to Mordremoth and going into its mouth after the Breachmaker reached its target (the ley lines). So it seems that Mordremoth was fed via Scarlet disrupting the ley lines (remember, she disrupted an interjection – I think what happened was that she prevented the ley lines from going anywhere but the one direction to Mordremoth).

@Rainbow: As proven in Edge of Destiny, the Elder Dragons actually need magic to rise. Since they expel magic while in hibernation, their champions wake up to give them magic – Drakkar did this for Jormag (Drakkar siphoned magic from the first Sons of Svanir and fed it to Jormag), and the Great Destroyer did this for Glint. We don’t know who the champions were for the other Elder Dragons though, but Mordremoth woke up early as he didn’t have a champion to wake him.

We know that the Elder Dragons rise when magic in the world has gotten high – with two champions (Great Destroyer and Drakkar) waking up before their Elder Dragon, it seems that the champions are given the task to determine when magic is high enough in the world to satiate their dragon.

There’s (imo) three candidates for who’s Zhaitan’s champion was, with two likely ones. The Giganticus Lupicus was confirmed to have been a minion from the previous rise and thus could have been the one to rise Zhaitan, and there’s the Maw from Sea of Sorrows which was a leviathan in the area of the sunken Orr, only appearing weeks before Zhaitan rose.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kralkatorrik got crippled by a single asura mind (mind you, a great asura) and nearly died by Destiny’s Edge minus Logan plus Glint.

I didn’t read any of the books, so my knowledge on Kralkatorrik is limited.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jormag slaughtered thousands of norn and kodan (and if norn skaalds are to be believed, hundreds of norn at once) and even killed a Spirit of the Wild – only losing a single tooth in the process, to a norn blessed by multiple Spirits of the Wild and with an ancient jotun (magical?) scroll.

Jormag is certainly aggressive, but that doesn’t make him the strongest. The Norn tend to fight their foes one-on-one, since they don’t believe in armies… nor in siege equipment it would seem. Apart from the Claw of Jormag battle, we see very little of Norn using siege equipment, which would be the right weapon to use against dragons. So the deaths that Jormag caused may have been a case of a lot of fool hearty overconfident Norn running in for the slaughter, with the wrong kinds of weapons. You can’t just fight an Elder Dragon with swords and bows alone.

Mordremoth’s mental influence? What mental influence? We have no true indication that Mordremoth was the entity in Scarlet’s mind.

It’s implied. Keep in mind, this is all just speculation. I’m not stating any of this as fact.

I think we can safely say that Primordus may be one of the strongest so far, certainly as far as armies are concerned. His reach is far, since his Destroyers pop up all over Tyria, and he moves underground. He’s been fighting Asura and dwarves for a very long time, and has yet to be defeated.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@dace: In the cinematic, we see magic traveling to Mordremoth and going into its mouth after the Breachmaker reached its target (the ley lines). So it seems that Mordremoth was fed via Scarlet disrupting the ley lines (remember, she disrupted an interjection – I think what happened was that she prevented the ley lines from going anywhere but the one direction to Mordremoth).

Yeah that’s how I interpreted the cinematic too. We don’t explicitly know that the “light” we see travelling over the land is actually magic. It could be a kind of short circuit, backlash or dissipation of magic and not necessarily a steady flow. There is no line that we can see in the world that is travelling unimpeded to Mordremoth’s apparent domain, so what we see may have been fleeting.

As it enters the dragon’s mouth, it also seems to stop shortly after. Maybe the energy of the ley line is stopped. Or it is contaminated? We just don’t know.

“It seems Scarlet wanted to disrupt the flow of magic. This is what captured the attention of the dragon we heard. Her goal, all along… was the dragon.”

Intentional ambiguity is a pain when it just suffuses what little we do get.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jormag is certainly aggressive, but that doesn’t make him the strongest. The Norn tend to fight their foes one-on-one, since they don’t believe in armies… nor in siege equipment it would seem. Apart from the Claw of Jormag battle, we see very little of Norn using siege equipment, which would be the right weapon to use against dragons. So the deaths that Jormag caused may have been a case of a lot of fool hearty overconfident Norn running in for the slaughter, with the wrong kinds of weapons. You can’t just fight an Elder Dragon with swords and bows alone.

Norn do utilize siege weaponry – one norn in Hoelbrak (upper levels of Wolf Lodge I think, might be Bear though) wants to use Jormag’s tooth as the tip of a giant ballistae even, his trade being siege weaponry. Not common, but used. With the hundreds of norn comments I was going off of the skaald Old Fiach accounting of the events. Rather simple but Jormag apparently cut through hundreds of norn at a time according to him (likely embellished, mind you), and while norn may not be going at it with the right weapons, they’re far from easy fighters to best when you have hundreds of them going at you at once.

dace.8019:

Yeah that’s how I interpreted the cinematic too. We don’t explicitly know that the “light” we see travelling over the land is actually magic. It could be a kind of short circuit, backlash or dissipation of magic and not necessarily a steady flow. There is no line that we can see in the world that is travelling unimpeded to Mordremoth’s apparent domain, so what we see may have been fleeting.

We don’t see the light because the ley lines it goes through is deep underground. Showing us the light on the surface was just aesthetics – as Angel McCoy said elsewhere, the cinematic was just for players.

Though we do see some continuous (even now) magic along that line – at Thaumanova. So the leyline hasn’t been deprived.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

You’d think that bubbles would make an appearance if he had conquered the entire sea by now, at the very least we should’ve seen some of his minions. There’s something stopping him, we just don’t know what.

If deep underwater it’s his domain, why would he come to land?
Why would Jormag go deep underwater?

I think the real reason is not even the devs know but at the same time they’re happy just leaving it a mystery.

The lore in GW2 is really awesome but they really struggle with the presentation, lets see what they can do now with Mordremoth, I have a suspicion if players don’t like it that might be the last dragon we face and bubbles might never have his story told.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Find your nearest sylvari and kiss for a long time. Problem solved. :P

I don’t know why, but this made me laugh till I got into a coughing fit. Out of curiosity, can Sylvari actually breath underwater without the rebreater?

Well, because there is no drowning game mechanic, you can remove your aquabreather underwater and never drown :P

CureForLiving.5360:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

Stumbled on a conversation between two Asura in Brisban where one mentions that Sylvari do photosynthesis, and the other mentioned that no one has any idea how Sylvari work. So I guess that’s a maybe.

They do, but it’s not their only source of energy. It’s mentioned when the First sylvari who was met by Asura came back, his one leg looked like it had been out of the sun for far too long.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jormag slaughtered thousands of norn and kodan (and if norn skaalds are to be believed, hundreds of norn at once) and even killed a Spirit of the Wild – only losing a single tooth in the process, to a norn blessed by multiple Spirits of the Wild and with an ancient jotun (magical?) scroll.

Jormag is certainly aggressive, but that doesn’t make him the strongest. The Norn tend to fight their foes one-on-one, since they don’t believe in armies… nor in siege equipment it would seem. Apart from the Claw of Jormag battle, we see very little of Norn using siege equipment, which would be the right weapon to use against dragons. So the deaths that Jormag caused may have been a case of a lot of fool hearty overconfident Norn running in for the slaughter, with the wrong kinds of weapons. You can’t just fight an Elder Dragon with swords and bows alone.

Norn don’t form armies but that hardly means they’ll just sit back and go one at a time against the enemy. Norn individually are the strongest of the player races, stronger ones capable of soloing an entire charr warband.

Pact maintained that siege equipment, but still, Norn do know how to fight in large groups against single enemies. Great hunts for one, general combat as a mob… They just don’t have an army like the Charr or humans do.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@dace: In the cinematic, we see magic traveling to Mordremoth and going into its mouth after the Breachmaker reached its target (the ley lines). So it seems that Mordremoth was fed via Scarlet disrupting the ley lines (remember, she disrupted an interjection – I think what happened was that she prevented the ley lines from going anywhere but the one direction to Mordremoth).

The way I viewed it was maybe more of a straight interruption. Block the flow for a short while, then when it goes back to normal you have a surge of power going out.

edit: Out of all the dragons, Zhaitan was the most agressive in attacking others.

Primordus may be just as agressive, but he’s dealing with Dwarves and other still underground forces/races/creatures.

Jormag is pushing, but not majorly, most Sons of Svanir spreading corruption with icebrood not doing as much.

Branded stay on the brand, hardly leave it.

Bubbles may simply be sitting down there eating magic or not doing much. Or healing from any wounds taken during the forcing of other races from the deep.

CureForLiving.5360:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea was more that plants take in CO2 and give out breathable air – the reverse of animals. So theoretically (we don’t know if sylvari function this way!), a human and a sylvari could breath into each other without issue.

Stumbled on a conversation between two Asura in Brisban where one mentions that Sylvari do photosynthesis, and the other mentioned that no one has any idea how Sylvari work. So I guess that’s a maybe.

From a scientific point of view, some might be able but definitely all of them. A crutial part of photosynthesis is the chlorophyll. It’s also responsible for the green color. So since we are able to paint our Sylvari in different colors, it’s most likely that the don’t use photosynthesis. Furthermore, photosynthesis does provide enough energy for a tree to grow but it’s definitely not enough energy to provide a humanoid being.

And I don’t know which dragon would be the strongest, each dragon seems to represent a special type of magic. I don’t even know if they’re fighting or ignoring each other. But I could think of them fighting each other once the magic they can harvest runs low.

Kalavier.1097:

edit: Out of all the dragons, Zhaitan was the most agressive in attacking others.

Primordus may be just as agressive, but he’s dealing with Dwarves and other still underground forces/races/creatures.

Jormag is pushing, but not majorly, most Sons of Svanir spreading corruption with icebrood not doing as much.

Branded stay on the brand, hardly leave it.

Bubbles may simply be sitting down there eating magic or not doing much. Or healing from any wounds taken during the forcing of other races from the deep.

Zhaitan was most aggressive because he’s been right on civilization’s footsteps. The others haven’t so much after kicking the races from their homes.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan was most aggressive because he’s been right on civilization’s footsteps. The others haven’t so much after kicking the races from their homes.

Kralk’s minions are aggressive, for certain. As are Jormag’s. Both groups are perhaps the primary dangers which could be pointed to even before Mordremoth’s reveal.

Primordius did things longer ago with the Central Transfer Chamber, but was mostly quiet since it seems. And “Bubbles” . . . we don’t really know . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan was most aggressive because he’s been right on civilization’s footsteps. The others haven’t so much after kicking the races from their homes.

Kralk’s minions are aggressive, for certain. As are Jormag’s. Both groups are perhaps the primary dangers which could be pointed to even before Mordremoth’s reveal.

Primordius did things longer ago with the Central Transfer Chamber, but was mostly quiet since it seems. And “Bubbles” . . . we don’t really know . . .

The branded hardly leave the brand though. They pretty much just wander southward or near the ‘brand storms’. Sure, they utterly destroy (Or try to) anything which enters the brand, they don’t seem that inspired to rampage across Ascalon.

Jormag’s are also agressive, but they haven’t been making the pushes and purposeful invasions the Risen were.

Kalavier.1097:

Jormag’s are also agressive, but they haven’t been making the pushes and purposeful invasions the Risen were.

To add to this, a-net also said that while the SoS get their power from Jormag, it isn’t because he acknowledges them as “his army”. That they are really beneath Jormags notice.

Dustfinger.9510:

Kalavier.1097:

Jormag’s are also agressive, but they haven’t been making the pushes and purposeful invasions the Risen were.

To add to this, a-net also said that while the SoS get their power from Jormag, it isn’t because he acknowledges them as “his army”. That they are really beneath Jormags notice.

Pretty much a “Meh, they are spreading my corruption and icebrood around. Who cares?”

Kalavier.1097:

Pretty much a “Meh, they are spreading my corruption and icebrood around. Who cares?”

The impression I got was that they use his power without him even noticing because they are mere fleas. Ill try to find the link to the interview after work. It was a fairly recent one I think.

it’s almost like Jormag is more interested in fighting his own fights than actual world domination.

Jormag definitely notices the Sons of Svanir because he knows everything his minions know (or there’s some kind of hive mind going on there). And he certainly does care about them – it’s denoted multiple times that Jormag prefers to have followers go to him before he corrupts them, rather than corrupting to enslave like the other Elder Dragons (though the Sons of Svanir are known to do the latter). But he doesn’t care if they start killing each other, and they aren’t “his army” so much as “ants who work for him.”

I get the sense that Zhaitan seems to be the weakest. He was given a perfect environment to grow and a massive advantage, but overplayed his hand. His strength stemmed from all things that were. He was a match for humans and their magic, but stood no chance against new technology and magics that he understood very little about. Basically, he was a zombie of a dragon: resilient, but physically unstable.

Kralkatorrik is the second newest dragon to awake. I think he his strength lies in the numbers of his enemies and the humility he gained from his encounter with Destiny’s Edge. If you send an army against him, you will fail every time because he can corrupt them with just his breath. If you send a guild in, he will have much greater trouble. Unlike Zhaitan, Kral has been given a chance to see the threat that the races of Tyria pose to him (a group of six plus his own champ nearly killed him). I believe this may give him a much needed edge when he fully recovers. It is likely that he will be fortifying his position and going after the individual heroes of Tyria instead of waiting for the assault. Even then, I’d say he is either the second weakest or the most unlucky of the dragons thus far.

Jormag is just the opposite of Kral. If you send an army, you’ll have much better luck than if you send individuals. I’d say that he has a way of getting inside an individual’s head and not only promising power but delivering on it as well. That is why the Kodan and the Norn – two highly prideful races – have such trouble dealing with him. I’d say that he is the third weakest overall.

Past the above three, it is hard to say. But I believe that Bubbles may be the third strongest. Not because he is any more powerful or tactful, but because he is immersed in his element. No matter what you try, you can’t draw him onto the land or into the sky. He has a very strong defense against the land-dwellers of Tyria.

I believe Mordremoth to be the opposite of Zhaitan. If the rest of his minions are anything like Scarlet, then we could be in a lot of trouble. He may be a dragon in a constant state of evolution, one that is impossibly adaptable. It really depend on what his exact powers are. But I’d guess that he is the second strongest, being the last to rise.

Primordus has the same home field advantage that Bubbles does and has had more than 200 years to fortify himself. First to rise, last to fall. Making him the strongest.

But we still don’t know if these are the only dragons. There may be more that even the Dwarfs were unaware of.

Remember that kraklatorik is the largest dragon

We have no confirmation that Kralkatorrik’s the largest, actually.

Kralkatorrik is said to be 1,000 feet tall. Zhaitan’s model was measured and he’s just as big (roughly, though his height is hard to determine due to his whole “missing bottom half and his main forearms aren’t the same length” issue).

Bubbles has the potential to be huge, since he has all the oceans to himself, so he could have grown to enormous size. And in fact, some of the Inquest over at the Crucible of Eternity discuss how they may not have enough space for minions of Bubbles.

Zhaitan was the strongest. All of the other dragons will be defeated by using the sit emote.

This thread is a bit like comparing a hurricane to an earthquake to a tidal wave to a volcano. Apples and oranges. You could measure the amount of destruction, but that partly depends on what’s in the way.

Wanderer.3248:

This thread is a bit like comparing a hurricane to an earthquake to a tidal wave to a volcano. Apples and oranges. You could measure the amount of destruction, but that partly depends on what’s in the way.

one dragon took a group of six to nearly kill while the other has battled the combined might of dwarves and asura for the better part of 250 years. I’d say there are grounds for comparison.

Keeping in mind that this is also a fantasy game where numbers do not necessarily equal the might of one individual. In D&D, a 20th level character could easily slaughter hundreds of level 1 soldiers without breaking a sweat. An ancient red dragon could conceivably meet its end at the hands of 6 level 20’s; 5000 level 1 soldiers couldn’t even hope to scratch the same dragon. GW2 probably follows similar conventions.