Which Elder Dragon is the strongest overall?

Which Elder Dragon is the strongest overall?

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

This thread is a bit like comparing a hurricane to an earthquake to a tidal wave to a volcano. Apples and oranges. You could measure the amount of destruction, but that partly depends on what’s in the way.

one dragon took a group of six to nearly kill while the other has battled the combined might of dwarves and asura for the better part of 250 years. I’d say there are grounds for comparison.

Said dragon was also stated to have ONE, SINGLE point where it could be harmed. And they were aided by Glint (a dragon), and used mind control (of a sort) to KO Kralk, which was only possible due to Glint.

The other dragon first appeared by swarming through the Asura underground network with it’s destroyers, and even while being held at bay by the dwarves destroyers pop up here and there.

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

I agree with bullyrook that Primordus has been at it more than 200 years and consuming magic longer than Zhaitan has, like Konig stated above.
Primordus may be a smaller Elder Dragon, but size doesn’t necessarily make you weaker. Since he’s been gathering magic longer, I’m assuming that makes Primordus something of a ticking time-bomb. Continuously gathering magical power/energy.

anyway, I just want to say to Sundar, what exactly do you mean by “strongest”? Do you mean the most influential dragon? The most physically powerful/durable?

So, the Deep Sea dragon has pushed out some incredibly strong enemies onto Tyria, and as everyone knows, they were quite intimidating, and because of this we can only imagine how bad the deep sea dragon is. (however Bubbles doesn’t really pose as much of a threat that Zhaitan did or any of the other dragons do currently)

Zhaitan was just more of a commander-leader type dragon ( although he did corrupt the orrian civilization and all that) and he was incredibly influential.

Though little is known about Mordremoth, i’m gonna say that Primordus may be the strongest Elder Dragon, just because he might still be gathering energy ( I haven’t really read more about Primordus and whether or not he’s still consuming energy)

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Posted by: Simmu.9405

Simmu.9405

Knock off our rebreather and we be struggling to find a source of air.

Find your nearest sylvari and kiss for a long time. Problem solved. :P

what if the nearest sylvari happens to be trahearne?? :p

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Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

This thread is a bit like comparing a hurricane to an earthquake to a tidal wave to a volcano. Apples and oranges. You could measure the amount of destruction, but that partly depends on what’s in the way.

one dragon took a group of six to nearly kill while the other has battled the combined might of dwarves and asura for the better part of 250 years. I’d say there are grounds for comparison.

Kralk Just awakened and was at his weakest. Also. Dragon champion isnt a small deal. You can really compare 1 champion for a whole army. Great Destroyer, Claw of Jormag, Tequatl, Shatterer. U need Army to deal with this champions. And u even can fail.

So…. Zaithan (at his strongest, he had all advantages) fought 5 heroes and army and died. Kralkatorik (at his weakest. He literally just awakened) fought 5 heroes and army > and he lives.

Also, to support my dragon champ view: Glint almost soloed whole De 1.0 without any pressure on herself. She just went > oh well…since u all downed now….u will listen to my plan and do what I say.

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

Destiny’s Edge was there during the fight against Zhaitan, too, so that makes 10 heroes, and the dragon was severely weakened during the whole advance to Orr. Not to forget the big guns we had against Zhaitan. Never forget the big guns.

To sum it up? Not five heroes + an army against Zhaitan at its strongest.

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.

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Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

Destiny’s Edge was there during the fight against Zhaitan, too, so that makes 10 heroes, and the dragon was severely weakened during the whole advance to Orr. Not to forget the big guns we had against Zhaitan. Never forget the big guns.

To sum it up? Not five heroes + an army against Zhaitan at its strongest.

De 1.0 wasnt at the battle this time. They was just supporting. So they was just a part of an army. Also. Big guns are part of the army too. U need big guns for Tequatl. U need big guns for Claw of Jormag. So its obvious, that Glint = Whole army with all the guns.

Also. Snaff mind control device sure could be counted as a Big Gun too. It was so powerful, that it downed a whole dragon for Rytlock to finish.

(edited by Sergoros.4398)

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

I’m just curious when we’ll get to see the massive charr artillery in action against an Elder Dragon. That’ll make for an awesome fireworks show XD

About Kralkatorrik, how long has it been since it fled to the Crystal Desert?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

About Kralkatorrik, how long has it been since it fled to the Crystal Desert?

Roughly 7 years. He woke in 1320 AE and fled to the desert the day he woke up. It is now 1327 AE, though still early in the year.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

About Kralkatorrik, how long has it been since it fled to the Crystal Desert?

Roughly 7 years. He woke in 1320 AE and fled to the desert the day he woke up. It is now 1327 AE, though still early in the year.

Is there any more information about the whereabouts of Kralk after he escaped to the crystal desert? I’m assuming the last ones to see him are the Order of Whispers.
I’m really interested as to why or how the Whispers are the only ones who are/were able to maintain their presence/travels in the crystal desert with both Palawa Joko’s and Kralkatorrik’s (assumed he’s still present there) forces throughout the region.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Last records we have is Edge of Destiny on his exact location. The Movement does hint that he’s still in the Crystal Desert, though, via calling him the desert dragon (as Mordremoth was the jungle dragon, and Zhaitan the Orrian dragon), but nothing really definitive.

For the Whispers’ capability of moving to Elona, I’m guessing they use an asura gate.

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

What wounds? He pretty much got out of that fight without a scratch physically.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

That “massive splotch” is where he fled from at the end of Edge of Destiny. He didn’t continue making the Dragonbrand. It ends at Glint’s Lair.

And Kralkatorrik is not there.

Unless he returned after Destiny’s Edge left (and, I should note, the Zephyrites came and gone, given that they went to Glint’s corpse which would be right next to that “massive splotch of Brand” and thus Kralkatorrik would have been in eyesight yet no mention of the massive beast, rather a “hurry so the wrong hands don’t get it.”)

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

That “massive splotch” is where he fled from at the end of Edge of Destiny. He didn’t continue making the Dragonbrand. It ends at Glint’s Lair.

And Kralkatorrik is not there.

Unless he returned after Destiny’s Edge left (and, I should note, the Zephyrites came and gone, given that they went to Glint’s corpse which would be right next to that “massive splotch of Brand” and thus Kralkatorrik would have been in eyesight yet no mention of the massive beast, rather a “hurry so the wrong hands don’t get it.”)

And you know this how? If you got this very exact info from a book, I should remind you that the books aren’t exactly spot on in terms of detail.

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

What wounds? He pretty much got out of that fight without a scratch physically.

I was thinking more of the wound to his pride. He had his mind hijacked by a lawn gnome – that’s gotta be a burn (pardon my charr).

(edited by bullyrook.2165)

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

Kralk must still be somewhere in the Crystal Desert though. The Movement of the World mentioned that Palawa Joko’s undead armies are busy fighting off the Branded, so it stands to reason that Kralk must be somewhere nearby, since all the Branded we encounter were heading south in response to his call.

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Posted by: Deus Xiphos.7046

Deus Xiphos.7046

I would guess that Bubbles would be the strongest, because of the previously mentioned driving out dangerous races, but also because it hasn’t had a champion beaten before. (Although that also might go to Mordremoth) We’ve beaten Tequatl, the Claw of Jormag, the Dwarves beat The Great Destroyer, and Destiny’s Edge probably weakened Kralkatorrik. So I’m guessing that Bubbles is still on full force because that guy hadn’t ahd any minions beaten yet.

I might also guess that he’s one of the bigger Elder Dragons because… well, that dragon’s in the ocean. Who knows how gigantic he might be?

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

Well, I don’t think I’ve said it yet, but I don’t think the deep sea dragon really poses any threat to Tyria so far. He only scared off the Karka, who now are just kinda doing their now thing on that island in the Sea of Sorrows.

and also, size doesn’t always equal strength But with all the information there is about the Elder Dragons, we can use that to determine how strong or capable they are of causing destruction

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luecm1Ixee1qmpg7qo1_500.jpg

Unless i’m wrong (which I don’t think I am) this is just another depiction of Kralkatorrik.

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Posted by: Infamous Darkness.3284

Infamous Darkness.3284

Well, I don’t think I’ve said it yet, but I don’t think the deep sea dragon really poses any threat to Tyria so far. He only scared off the Karka, who now are just kinda doing their now thing on that island in the Sea of Sorrows.

and also, size doesn’t always equal strength But with all the information there is about the Elder Dragons, we can use that to determine how strong or capable they are of causing destruction

but it wasn’t just the karka that he drove out from the ocean, he also pushed out the krait, possibly the largos, and to a much lesser degree the quaggan.

Infamous Culverin(engi[Main]), one of every other class.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”

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Posted by: Deus Xiphos.7046

Deus Xiphos.7046

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luecm1Ixee1qmpg7qo1_500.jpg

Unless i’m wrong (which I don’t think I am) this is just another depiction of Kralkatorrik.

Eh, I wasn’t really saying that bigger is stronger. Anyway, that Kralkatorikk picture is HUGE. How could a small band of six people fought that!? (Granted they had Glint along, but kitten.)

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Posted by: Rainbow Sprint.3215

Rainbow Sprint.3215

How do we fight the claw of Jormag or the Shatterer? We hit their feet and they die. When all else fails go for the toes.

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Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luecm1Ixee1qmpg7qo1_500.jpg

Unless i’m wrong (which I don’t think I am) this is just another depiction of Kralkatorrik.

Eh, I wasn’t really saying that bigger is stronger. Anyway, that Kralkatorikk picture is HUGE. How could a small band of six people fought that!? (Granted they had Glint along, but kitten.)

They didnt. It wasnt even a fight, though, Glint was fighting Kralk 1v1. Snaff was trying to make some use of his mind control machine. Rytlock was holding a long stick, that was supposedly strong enough to pierce kralkatorik heart or smth. His weak spot. He didnt do ANYTHING whole fight. Just was standing and w8-ing.

Caithe was holding back hordes of branded. I dont remember what eir or zoija did…guess they was holding branded back too. So yeah. Finally Snaff mind control started to work and he managed to get grip of kralk and force him to the ground, where Rytlock could finish him. Glint was finished already btw. Aaaaand…when Rytlock almost pierced kralk….dragon was freed from snaff device (because some branded managed to pass and K.O.-ed snaff. So dragon was all like ~GTFO!~ on rytlock and then just flew away somewhere. He killed his traitor champ and had no interest in some ants on the ground.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

That “massive splotch” is where he fled from at the end of Edge of Destiny. He didn’t continue making the Dragonbrand. It ends at Glint’s Lair.

And Kralkatorrik is not there.

Unless he returned after Destiny’s Edge left (and, I should note, the Zephyrites came and gone, given that they went to Glint’s corpse which would be right next to that “massive splotch of Brand” and thus Kralkatorrik would have been in eyesight yet no mention of the massive beast, rather a “hurry so the wrong hands don’t get it.”)

And you know this how? If you got this very exact info from a book, I should remind you that the books aren’t exactly spot on in terms of detail.

It’s pretty obvious from the map that the Dragonbrand ends at Glint’s Lair by overlaying it with the GW1 map. In Edge of Destiny, Glint’s Lair is where they confront Kralkatorrik – this is pointblank stated. Kralkatorrik flees and Destiny’s Edge has some time of moment’s rest after the battle at the place of the battle, as shown by Zojja crying over Snaff’s corpse within the battered and broken golem suit.

If you read the novel, it becomes pretty clear. The books may not be perfect in their detail, but they are a lot more than you give credit for.

Kralk must still be somewhere in the Crystal Desert though. The Movement of the World mentioned that Palawa Joko’s undead armies are busy fighting off the Branded, so it stands to reason that Kralk must be somewhere nearby, since all the Branded we encounter were heading south in response to his call.

Wrong. The Movement of the World mentions risen (specifically called the Orrian dragon’s minions) fighting on the northern Elonian border.

There is not a single mention of Kralkatorrik’s minions being in conflict in the desert or with Joko’s undead.

Also, the Branded are moving south by southeast. But as we see in Edge of Destiny, at least upon the Brand’s creation they head south because that’s the last they saw Kralkatorrik heading. Think of it like the Walking Dead zombies when a herd shows up at the end of Season 2 – they see a helicopter and start following it, but they loose sight of the helicopter, however they continue moving in the direction they last saw/heard the helicopter going.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luecm1Ixee1qmpg7qo1_500.jpg

Unless i’m wrong (which I don’t think I am) this is just another depiction of Kralkatorrik.

That’s just a generic Elder Dragon concept by Daniel Dociu. It would be Zhaitan if any ED, btw, as Zhaitan is the only one around naval ships like that (those are old Krytan design). Kralkatorrik isn’t anywhere close to water (or rather, enough water).

Well, I don’t think I’ve said it yet, but I don’t think the deep sea dragon really poses any threat to Tyria so far. He only scared off the Karka, who now are just kinda doing their now thing on that island in the Sea of Sorrows.

and also, size doesn’t always equal strength But with all the information there is about the Elder Dragons, we can use that to determine how strong or capable they are of causing destruction

The deep sea dragon may not be a current threat, but that doesn’t make it weak. He’s just distance.

Also, karka and krait were pushed out. Largos seem to be having troubles with it as well, and the southern quaggan were pushed out by the krait fleeing from the DSD. And besides, “only” scared off the karka? The karka are basically the dominate predators of the deep sea by what the quaggan and largos say – they consider karka a stronger enemy than krait (LA quaggan fled at first sight of karka, even into krait-infested waters just to flee the karka; while the largos we met, Fahd or some such, was saying the karka shell was (one of?) his best trophy).

The DSD has been around the krait obelisks – multiple but unknown amounts of them – which each are like individual Bloodstones: stuffed full of magic. By pushing out the krait (the DSD’s first move), he basically gave himself an underwater Orr to consume at his pleasure (perhaps even more magic than Orr, honestly).

They didnt. It wasnt even a fight, though, Glint was fighting Kralk 1v1. Snaff was trying to make some use of his mind control machine. Rytlock was holding a long stick, that was supposedly strong enough to pierce kralkatorik heart or smth. His weak spot. He didnt do ANYTHING whole fight. Just was standing and w8-ing.

Caithe was holding back hordes of branded. I dont remember what eir or zoija did…guess they was holding branded back too. So yeah. Finally Snaff mind control started to work and he managed to get grip of kralk and force him to the ground, where Rytlock could finish him. Glint was finished already btw. Aaaaand…when Rytlock almost pierced kralk….dragon was freed from snaff device (because some branded managed to pass and K.O.-ed snaff. So dragon was all like ~GTFO!~ on rytlock and then just flew away somewhere. He killed his traitor champ and had no interest in some ants on the ground.

Rytlock wasn’t doing “nothing but waiting” – all of DE sans Snaff and Logan were defending three entrypoints to where Snaff was kept. Eir+Garm on one side, Zojja in her golem suit on another, and Caithe+Rytlock in the third. When Kralkatorrik fell from Snaff’s mind wrestling, Rytlock left to kill it – but Caithe alone wasn’t enough to hold the Branded off. This is the entire point behind Glint’s earlier line of “if you all stand together, you can win” – if Logan didn’t go to save Jennah, then he would have aided Caithe in defending Snaff after Rytlock left to slay the dragon, keeping Snaff alive (longer) and giving Rytlock the time to bash the dragon.

Kralkatorrik did have interest on the “ants on the ground” – but only due to Snaff getting into his mind.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: Sergoros.4398

Sergoros.4398

They didnt. It wasnt even a fight, though, Glint was fighting Kralk 1v1. Snaff was trying to make some use of his mind control machine. Rytlock was holding a long stick, that was supposedly strong enough to pierce kralkatorik heart or smth. His weak spot. He didnt do ANYTHING whole fight. Just was standing and w8-ing.

Caithe was holding back hordes of branded. I dont remember what eir or zoija did…guess they was holding branded back too. So yeah. Finally Snaff mind control started to work and he managed to get grip of kralk and force him to the ground, where Rytlock could finish him. Glint was finished already btw. Aaaaand…when Rytlock almost pierced kralk….dragon was freed from snaff device (because some branded managed to pass and K.O.-ed snaff. So dragon was all like ~GTFO!~ on rytlock and then just flew away somewhere. He killed his traitor champ and had no interest in some ants on the ground.

Rytlock wasn’t doing “nothing but waiting” – all of DE sans Snaff and Logan were defending three entrypoints to where Snaff was kept. Eir+Garm on one side, Zojja in her golem suit on another, and Caithe+Rytlock in the third. When Kralkatorrik fell from Snaff’s mind wrestling, Rytlock left to kill it – but Caithe alone wasn’t enough to hold the Branded off. This is the entire point behind Glint’s earlier line of “if you all stand together, you can win” – if Logan didn’t go to save Jennah, then he would have aided Caithe in defending Snaff after Rytlock left to slay the dragon, keeping Snaff alive (longer) and giving Rytlock the time to bash the dragon.

Kralkatorrik did have interest on the “ants on the ground” – but only due to Snaff getting into his mind.

True…true…Logan is a jerk. I wonder if kralk still have necklace on. Would be stupid on his side.

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Posted by: CMstorm.8679

CMstorm.8679

Okay, imo, Kralkatorrik is the largest Elder Dragon.
We don’t really know how big Bubbles is yet, just based on the concept art there is. To me, he looks more like an Eel-ish seahorse XD (appearance-wise). But it is a little unnerving that when he awoke, it startled the Karka, Krait, Largos and Quaggan from the deep. That’s just about the only information there is about him, unless it mentions more in the GW2 books.

Mordremoth sounds really strong based off something…I read about him…somewhere…If i could find it…

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

We don’t have any confirmed DSD concept art, CMstorm. All we have that are close enough to count for the DSD are 2007 never-used concept art.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

http://zoom.it/TWLx

That’s a zoomable version of the historical locations map.

It shows Dragons lair as being the center of the crystal desert brand spot.

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Posted by: Envy.1679

Envy.1679

During the personal story we learned that because Orr was already destroyed, Zhaitan met virtually no resistance while raising his Risen army and as a result had the largest army and posed the most immediate threat at the time.

Considering how the new dragon was able to terrify Scarlet and drive her insane despite being as powerful as she was, it seems this new dragon is pretty kitten.

Also, do you think Primordus probably is the strongest of all the dragons overall and will probably be the last dragon we face, since he was the dragon associated with Eye of the North and was the first to wake up?

kind of offtopic note. Primordus’ energy is what powers the entire network of asura gates. they used to use his unawakened statue directly, But he since then has awakened and left. However he had so much energy that the residual energy left behind is enough to still power the network.

IDK thought it was interesting.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Nothing says that Primordus’ “residual energy” is what powers modern gates. In fact, unlike original gates, modern gates utilize crystal arrays – though the full purpose of them is never explained, they’re at least used to tune the gate’s location and to turn it on/off. Crystals are often filled with magic in various cases.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

During the personal story we learned that because Orr was already destroyed, Zhaitan met virtually no resistance while raising his Risen army and as a result had the largest army and posed the most immediate threat at the time.

Considering how the new dragon was able to terrify Scarlet and drive her insane despite being as powerful as she was, it seems this new dragon is pretty kitten.

Also, do you think Primordus probably is the strongest of all the dragons overall and will probably be the last dragon we face, since he was the dragon associated with Eye of the North and was the first to wake up?

kind of offtopic note. Primordus’ energy is what powers the entire network of asura gates. they used to use his unawakened statue directly, But he since then has awakened and left. However he had so much energy that the residual energy left behind is enough to still power the network.

IDK thought it was interesting.

The new gate network is powered by something entirely different. The old network likely is defunct, or used to transport destroyers/dwarves all over.

Though it would be interesting if the Dwarves still held the central transfer chamber, and used it as a base of operations.

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

That “massive splotch” is where he fled from at the end of Edge of Destiny. He didn’t continue making the Dragonbrand. It ends at Glint’s Lair.

And Kralkatorrik is not there.

Unless he returned after Destiny’s Edge left (and, I should note, the Zephyrites came and gone, given that they went to Glint’s corpse which would be right next to that “massive splotch of Brand” and thus Kralkatorrik would have been in eyesight yet no mention of the massive beast, rather a “hurry so the wrong hands don’t get it.”)

And you know this how? If you got this very exact info from a book, I should remind you that the books aren’t exactly spot on in terms of detail.

It’s pretty obvious from the map that the Dragonbrand ends at Glint’s Lair by overlaying it with the GW1 map. In Edge of Destiny, Glint’s Lair is where they confront Kralkatorrik – this is pointblank stated. Kralkatorrik flees and Destiny’s Edge has some time of moment’s rest after the battle at the place of the battle, as shown by Zojja crying over Snaff’s corpse within the battered and broken golem suit.

If you read the novel, it becomes pretty clear. The books may not be perfect in their detail, but they are a lot more than you give credit for.

So, you think Kralktorrik glassed an area roughly three times the width of the Dragonbrand for the purpose of killing 6 mortals and a lesser dragon, and then proceeded to fly south without turning the land beneath him to a new Dragonbrand? As for your data on Glint’s lair. Honestly, nothing in the GW1 map corresponds with the GW2 map perfectly. You are guessing. I personally think Glint’s Lair is a bit north of the splotch, possibly just at its edge.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

As for your data on Glint’s lair. Honestly, nothing in the GW1 map corresponds with the GW2 map perfectly. You are guessing. I personally think Glint’s Lair is a bit north of the splotch, possibly just at its edge.

http://zoom.it/TWLx#full

GW1 map/historical spots, overlaid onto GW2 map. Dragons lair is directly at the end of the brand.

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Posted by: Horst Hortensie.5420

Horst Hortensie.5420

The brand is a “natural” barrier and purposely made from Kralkatorric. The fight was pretty huge and he blew his magic from several sides into Glint’s lair to hit Snaff, but he couldn’t enter it himself.

Kralkatorric hunted Glint down first and that is pretty expectable, because we can say that Glint was corrupted (or freed from Kralkatorric, all a matter of perspective).

That he stopped to turn the land into glass might simply be, because he had a disturbing experience (like a chair sized creature controlled a mountain sized creature).

Slow clap for the great puppet player.

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Very strong evidence, thank you for enlightening me, but that still doesn’t explain where the hey a 1000 foot dragon bent on corrupting the world would up and vanish to – without corrupting a danged thing on the way which seems to be his favorite hobby (aside from knitting and bowling, of course). With the utter lack of evidence as to where a god-like being of that caliber could possibly be aside from the aforementioned location, I am forced to assume that he is at the aforementioned location and the GW1 overlay is wrong in this case.

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Posted by: Envy.1679

Envy.1679

Nothing says that Primordus’ “residual energy” is what powers modern gates. .

Except the guild wars 2 official wiki.

“The first asura gate network was constructed with the Central Transfer Chamber as its main hub and only source of power. The magical energy used to power the gates was radiated from what was then believed to be a dragon statue. Later, it came to light that the dragon statue was the actual dragon Primordius. When he awoke and left, destroying the Central Transfer Chamber in the process, the asura network continued to receive power, presumably from Primordius’ residual magical energy.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura_gate

unless im reading it wrong.

MARATHON CIV 5 DIFFICULTY 10 STILL GOING

(edited by Envy.1679)

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Posted by: Horst Hortensie.5420

Horst Hortensie.5420

You are assuming that we have a symbol on the map saying there is an elder dragon, but if so why don’t we just go there and hunt it down?

Slow clap for the great puppet player.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

So, you think Kralktorrik glassed an area roughly three times the width of the Dragonbrand for the purpose of killing 6 mortals and a lesser dragon, and then proceeded to fly south without turning the land beneath him to a new Dragonbrand? As for your data on Glint’s lair. Honestly, nothing in the GW1 map corresponds with the GW2 map perfectly. You are guessing. I personally think Glint’s Lair is a bit north of the splotch, possibly just at its edge.

Well, he did glass the area over multiple times throughout the whole battle (two or three times, I believe), and considering that it flew across the height of continental Tyria after that “lesser dragon” – yes, I would say that Kralkatorrik glassed an area roughly three times the width of the Dragonbrand for the purpose of killing it; especially when one of the “6 mortals” (Snaff) had entered its mind and was driving it mad and was infuriating Kralkatorrik.

And actually, some things do correspond perfectly. Not everything, but this is caused by the span of years and the change in scaling (or ArenaNet’s placement being a wee bit off; but this only complies for the places in the explorable area – the unexplorables line up perfectly 100% of the time, I believe). But everything is in the approximate same locations, and we know for a fact that Kralkatorrik went straight to Glint’s lair due to the novel explicitly showing this (it is where they fought, it was thus the end target of Kralkatorrik’s flight), and we also know for a fact from the novel that the Dragonbrand’s creation is not involuntary as it is a function that he effectively turned on and off, and furthermore we know for a fact that Kralkatorrik fled the battlefield without creating more of the Dragonbrand.

If you’re going to argue this, go read the book first. Of course, once you do that, you’ll realize that you’re wrong.

Very strong evidence, thank you for enlightening me, but that still doesn’t explain where the hey a 1000 foot dragon bent on corrupting the world would up and vanish to – without corrupting a danged thing on the way which seems to be his favorite hobby (aside from knitting and bowling, of course). With the utter lack of evidence as to where a god-like being of that caliber could possibly be aside from the aforementioned location, I am forced to assume that he is at the aforementioned location and the GW1 overlay is wrong in this case.

We’ve heard nothing about Kralkatorrik and as I said above, we know that he fled the battlefield without creating more of the Dragonbrand.

All evidence points to one thing about Kralkatorrik’s location: that he is not at that big splotch. Because wherever he went, he didn’t continue the Dragonbrand – meaning that he is past the Dragonbrand.

The only way that he’d be in the Dragonbrand would be that he returned, which we have no evidence of at all.

Nothing says that Primordus’ “residual energy” is what powers modern gates. .

Except the guild wars 2 official wiki.

“The first asura gate network was constructed with the Central Transfer Chamber as its main hub and only source of power. The magical energy used to power the gates was radiated from what was then believed to be a dragon statue. Later, it came to light that the dragon statue was the actual dragon Primordius. When he awoke and left, destroying the Central Transfer Chamber in the process, the asura network continued to receive power, presumably from Primordius’ residual magical energy.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura_gate

unless im reading it wrong.

“presumably” – this is fan speculation. The fallacy of the wikis is that anyone and anything can go and edit the articles.

Always take the articles with a mindset of “there’s a chance it is wrong” – just like the WoodenPotatoes videos. Never take the wiki as a primary source, unless it is the documentation of dialogues.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

How the hey does a living ever expanding purple sandstorm go unnoticed for the span of 7 years without a shred of data reaching the orders?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Because no one goes into the Crystal Desert.

And it isn’t like they’re so huge that you can see them from over mountain ranges (unless, of course, they’re up close).

Keep in mind that the game does not scale to proper lore size. A fast paced journey from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City – in a more direct route than possible for players (that is, going through the Secluded Glen and directly into Plains of Ashford area from there, avoiding the Blazeridge Steppes altogether) – takes about 3 days of constant/near-constant travel. For players, it takes less than an hour.

So it isn’t like the entire continent of Tyria is the size of Germany or some such. You wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall structure in England from Switzerland. Same reason you wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall Elder Dragon somewhere within the Crystal Desert from outside of it – and you even have a small mountainrange to the north of the Crystal Desert, and access to the desert has been prohibited by foot for a few years by Queen Jennah (three guesses as to why).

Also, who said Kralkatorrik is “ever expanding”? Kralkatorrik’s size doesn’t change as far as we know.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Because no one goes into the Crystal Desert.

The Order of Whispers does. They are from that region.

Keep in mind that the game does not scale to proper lore size. A fast paced journey from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City – in a more direct route than possible for players (that is, going through the Secluded Glen and directly into Plains of Ashford area from there, avoiding the Blazeridge Steppes altogether) – takes about 3 days of constant/near-constant travel. For players, it takes less than an hour.

Obviously, but that hasn’t impeaded the Orders’ in terms of information gathering before.

So it isn’t like the entire continent of Tyria is the size of Germany or some such. You wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall structure in England from Switzerland. Same reason you wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall Elder Dragon somewhere within the Crystal Desert from outside of it – and you even have a small mountainrange to the north of the Crystal Desert, and access to the desert has been prohibited by foot for a few years by Queen Jennah (three guesses as to why).

I’d say the undead king on the other side might be as good a reason as any dragon.

Also, who said Kralkatorrik is “ever expanding”? Kralkatorrik’s size doesn’t change as far as we know.

I meant in terms of his territory. If he did settle anywhere, I would think that given the Dragonbrand was made in mere moments, whatever his current residence is now, it must be fairly impressive.

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Posted by: Mist.6217

Mist.6217

Technically bullyrock we don’t know how the OoW gets back and forth between Tyria and Elona right now. They could go down and around the lower half of the desert to avoid the branded area as much as possible.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Because no one goes into the Crystal Desert.

The Order of Whispers does. They are from that region.

They’re from Elona, which while is across the Crystal Desert, as Mist said we don’t know how they go to and fro Elona and Tyria – we just know that they can.

Most likely, they use an asura gate. Perhaps even this one from Eye of the North. Though the canonocity of that gate beneath Istan is questionable (since all three utilize the same latter 2/3rds and other campaign-to-campaign quests (the NF to Proph/Cantha) were confirmed non-cannon by Linsey Murdock).

Keep in mind that the game does not scale to proper lore size. A fast paced journey from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City – in a more direct route than possible for players (that is, going through the Secluded Glen and directly into Plains of Ashford area from there, avoiding the Blazeridge Steppes altogether) – takes about 3 days of constant/near-constant travel. For players, it takes less than an hour.

Obviously, but that hasn’t impeaded the Orders’ in terms of information gathering before.

My point in this is that “just because it looks like a small distance for us players, doesn’t mean it is in lore.”

No, distance hasn’t stopped the Order of Whispers before, but no one – not even the Order of Whispers – would be able to travel as fast as players, thus for everyone, even the OoW, it is harder than you may expect to travel and gather location-based information.

So it isn’t like the entire continent of Tyria is the size of Germany or some such. You wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall structure in England from Switzerland. Same reason you wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall Elder Dragon somewhere within the Crystal Desert from outside of it – and you even have a small mountainrange to the north of the Crystal Desert, and access to the desert has been prohibited by foot for a few years by Queen Jennah (three guesses as to why).

I’d say the undead king on the other side might be as good a reason as any dragon.

True, but which is more recent? Which does Jennah know directly about? Why close the gate now, rather than before, if it’s closed due to Joko?

It’s more of “food for thought” than “obviously, this is the only possibility.”

Also, who said Kralkatorrik is “ever expanding”? Kralkatorrik’s size doesn’t change as far as we know.

I meant in terms of his territory. If he did settle anywhere, I would think that given the Dragonbrand was made in mere moments, whatever his current residence is now, it must be fairly impressive.

Zhaitan remained in Orr – which is smaller than the Crystal Desert – for 100 years before expanding seriously. The risen on the Tarnished Coast are said to be recent, as are, I believe, those in northern Sparkfly Fen (thus Bloodtide Coast too). Prior to recently, it’s mainly been pockets of risen wandering out of their territory, or the invasions on Port Noble, Port Stalwart, and Lion’s Arch (the last one failing) – though obviously since Taidha has claimed Port Noble’s ruins, they didn’t remain occupying the areas.

Similarly, Jormag’s move south is said to be recent (as well as a recent increase in the Sons of Svanir’s size), despite being awake for 150 years.

All of the Elder Dragons hold the methodology of “wake up, clear immediate area in one swoop, wait a century or so, then invade with armies to expand territory”. Kralkatorrik did the first two and then some in order to take out what he probably thought to be the greatest threat to him – Glint (considering she knows his weakenesses, that’s likely why just as much as Glint betrayed him – similar to why Zhaitan assaulted the excavation during Forging the Pact, assaulted the Orders’ HQs after taking Claw Island, and had attempted an assassination and framing of Trahearne and the PC depending on which fear choice you made; those were clearly attempts to remove the greatest threats).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Keep in mind that the game does not scale to proper lore size. A fast paced journey from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City – in a more direct route than possible for players (that is, going through the Secluded Glen and directly into Plains of Ashford area from there, avoiding the Blazeridge Steppes altogether) – takes about 3 days of constant/near-constant travel. For players, it takes less than an hour.

This is very true, and it seems many miss it. For example, in Gendarren fields the lower snow area haven, a norn sometimes walks up to it. He states he is carrying a message for Vigil Keep (perhaps from Hoelbrek? They do state something like that haven guards the direct road from LA to Hoelbrek), and he was so focused on getting as much traveling into each day possible, that he was going to arrive half a week early.

I once figured Vigil Keep to LA could take half a day to a day maybe, depending on how fast you went. That was without any other thoughts though or a sense of scale :P.

This is also why the Sylvari npc in Black Citadel mentions she walks EVERYWHERE, and the player can basically go “Wouldn’t taking the asura gate/waypoints be faster?” (Note, I’ve seen npcs actually come out of the waypoints in Orr. non-players can use them :P).

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

They’re from Elona, which while is across the Crystal Desert, as Mist said we don’t know how they go to and fro Elona and Tyria – we just know that they can.

Most likely, they use an asura gate. Perhaps even this one from Eye of the North. Though the canonocity of that gate beneath Istan is questionable (since all three utilize the same latter 2/3rds and other campaign-to-campaign quests (the NF to Proph/Cantha) were confirmed non-cannon by Linsey Murdock)..

I am willing to wager that they can sneak past a lil’ ol’ gate any time they want.

My point in this is that “just because it looks like a small distance for us players, doesn’t mean it is in lore.”

No, distance hasn’t stopped the Order of Whispers before, but no one – not even the Order of Whispers – would be able to travel as fast as players, thus for everyone, even the OoW, it is harder than you may expect to travel and gather location-based information..

They have had seven years to locate a Dragon the size of a mountain who must have renovated an area many many times the size of the Dragonbrand by now. Time and distance are irrelevant in this case. That is my point. Unless of course he has Mesmer-like abilities to hide himself.

So it isn’t like the entire continent of Tyria is the size of Germany or some such. You wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall structure in England from Switzerland. Same reason you wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall Elder Dragon somewhere within the Crystal Desert from outside of it – and you even have a small mountainrange to the north of the Crystal Desert, and access to the desert has been prohibited by foot for a few years by Queen Jennah (three guesses as to why).

I’d say the undead king on the other side might be as good a reason as any dragon.

True, but which is more recent? Which does Jennah know directly about? Why close the gate now, rather than before, if it’s closed due to Joko?

It’s more of “food for thought” than “obviously, this is the only possibility.”.

Good point, well made. I don’t think the two are related, but that is another story.

Also, who said Kralkatorrik is “ever expanding”? Kralkatorrik’s size doesn’t change as far as we know.

I meant in terms of his territory. If he did settle anywhere, I would think that given the Dragonbrand was made in mere moments, whatever his current residence is now, it must be fairly impressive.

Zhaitan remained in Orr – which is smaller than the Crystal Desert – for 100 years before expanding seriously. The risen on the Tarnished Coast are said to be recent, as are, I believe, those in northern Sparkfly Fen (thus Bloodtide Coast too). Prior to recently, it’s mainly been pockets of risen wandering out of their territory, or the invasions on Port Noble, Port Stalwart, and Lion’s Arch (the last one failing) – though obviously since Taidha has claimed Port Noble’s ruins, they didn’t remain occupying the areas.

Similarly, Jormag’s move south is said to be recent (as well as a recent increase in the Sons of Svanir’s size), despite being awake for 150 years.

All of the Elder Dragons hold the methodology of “wake up, clear immediate area in one swoop, wait a century or so, then invade with armies to expand territory”. Kralkatorrik did the first two and then some in order to take out what he probably thought to be the greatest threat to him – Glint (considering she knows his weakenesses, that’s likely why just as much as Glint betrayed him – similar to why Zhaitan assaulted the excavation during Forging the Pact, assaulted the Orders’ HQs after taking Claw Island, and had attempted an assassination and framing of Trahearne and the PC depending on which fear choice you made; those were clearly attempts to remove the greatest threats).

But there is one problem with that theory: all the dragons you listed are entrenched in the corruption they made with “one swoop”. According to you, Kral is not. So that means you believe he is effectively standing in the desert with a sign that reads “will corrupt for food” as the world in his immediate area remains 100% unaffected by his presence. Either that, or the OoW has been fully lobotomized by the devs and they decided to leave this one dragon out of their watchful gaze.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

I must state this.

IF the OoW knew the location of Kralk, WHO WOULD THEY TELL? The Players? What purpose would such knowledge give them?

Who says they DON’T have that information, and simply are holding it for when it becomes appropriate to release? Maybe they’ve told the Pact post Zhaitan while they plan the next dragon campaign, as it’s useful then.

Also, the Crystal desert is HUGE. And in such a large region, who says they didn’t search one area, only for Kralk to return and settle in a ‘cleared’ zone?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

You’re rather missing my point bullyrook.

  • Even if they can go past the Desert Gate, admitting so would be admitting a crime. So they won’t admit it. Ergo, any knowledge they have of such – if they’ve done such – wouldn’t be announced publicly.
  • Well he can turn into a sandstorm. But for people to know what he’s up to requires three things: 1) that they can find him, 2) that they can survive after seeing him (note: Zhaitan was awake for 100 years and remained in Arah throughout, but only two people had seen Zhaitan and survived – Caithe and Trahearne), and 3) that they spread this information. Furthermore, as shown here journeying just to the corpse of Glint takes weeks (though from where is unknown, but this is for Zephyrites we’re talking about), so exploring the full Crystal Desert? That’s going to take a LOT of time and resources – the Crystal Desert is shown as being very harsh, even to the prepared, and it is much larger than we see in the GW2 world map (extending both south and east). So even with 7 years, mapping the whole desert to find a moving target isn’t guaranteed (but still, you’d need people who’d risk their life and the possibility of corruption to go into the desert to search for Kralkatorrik in the first place).
  • I never said Kralkatorrik isn’t surrounded by corruption – just that he isn’t at the bottom of the Dragonbrand; two very different things. In fact, there’s little need to corrupt the land of the Crystal Desert, unless he’s going to make minions out of it or spread his corruption somehow akin to Zhaitan with the Artesian Waters, as it should be noted that the desert is full of his crystallized blood (per Edge of Destiny – which mentions that there’s even such found scarcely in the Dragonbrand). However, as I said above, the Crystal Desert expands further than we see… so what keeps Kralkatorrik to have created his swath of corruption off the map? Furthermore, the accuracy of the world map that’s unexplored is questionable in specific details – after all, Southsun Cove existed before we got access to it, and it wasn’t on the world map by that point – furthermore, the Dragonbrand begins at the big lake in the middle of the Blood Legion Homelands, but we can only see it starting further south than that – so the world map isn’t guaranteed to show where Kralkatorrik is, if for no other reason but to represent what players/common Tyrians know.
    Also, the Order of Whispers don’t keep tabs on any dragon directly. They keep tabs on the dragons’ influence. But even if they did, as Kalavier said – why spread this information yet? So adventurers seeking to make a name of themselves will ride off to their deaths as they do with Jormag and Zhaitan?
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

Wrong. The Movement of the World mentions risen (specifically called the Orrian dragon’s minions) fighting on the northern Elonian border.

There is not a single mention of Kralkatorrik’s minions being in conflict in the desert or with Joko’s undead.

Also, the Branded are moving south by southeast. But as we see in Edge of Destiny, at least upon the Brand’s creation they head south because that’s the last they saw Kralkatorrik heading. Think of it like the Walking Dead zombies when a herd shows up at the end of Season 2 – they see a helicopter and start following it, but they loose sight of the helicopter, however they continue moving in the direction they last saw/heard the helicopter going.

Whoops. Maybe I misremembered Joko’s forces battling the Risen as battling the Branded instead. It just seemed more logical to have the Awakened battling the Branded given that Elona abuts the Crystal Desert, rather than having the Risen cross the Crystal Desert.

I wonder if Kralkatorrik has any means of communicating with his Branded telepathically… Or if he even gives orders to his minions at all. The only Branded that I’ve seen speak thus far (Victurus the Shattered, in the Iron Marches) doesn’t give the impression that he has any real goal aside from killing all non-Branded he comes across.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Well, assuming that the hive mind attribute that is shared between risen, icebrood, and destroyers also go for the other three dragons, then yes there’d be some telepathic mention.

There is another talking branded – but in the novel Edge of Destiny. A chieftain branded who’s only thought process is “follow Kralkatorrik!” and “attack Ebonhawke!” (after Kralkatorrik strikes lightning at Ebonhawke in passing). You also get into the thoughts of a once-cowardice charr who gets branded as Kralkatorrik wakes up, which only shows thoughts of desiring nothing but to serve Kralkatorrik.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

You’re rather missing my point bullyrook.

  • Even if they can go past the Desert Gate, admitting so would be admitting a crime. So they won’t admit it. Ergo, any knowledge they have of such – if they’ve done such – wouldn’t be announced publicly.
  • Well he can turn into a sandstorm. But for people to know what he’s up to requires three things: 1) that they can find him, 2) that they can survive after seeing him (note: Zhaitan was awake for 100 years and remained in Arah throughout, but only two people had seen Zhaitan and survived – Caithe and Trahearne), and 3) that they spread this information. Furthermore, as shown here journeying just to the corpse of Glint takes weeks (though from where is unknown, but this is for Zephyrites we’re talking about), so exploring the full Crystal Desert? That’s going to take a LOT of time and resources – the Crystal Desert is shown as being very harsh, even to the prepared, and it is much larger than we see in the GW2 world map (extending both south and east). So even with 7 years, mapping the whole desert to find a moving target isn’t guaranteed (but still, you’d need people who’d risk their life and the possibility of corruption to go into the desert to search for Kralkatorrik in the first place).
  • I never said Kralkatorrik isn’t surrounded by corruption – just that he isn’t at the bottom of the Dragonbrand; two very different things. In fact, there’s little need to corrupt the land of the Crystal Desert, unless he’s going to make minions out of it or spread his corruption somehow akin to Zhaitan with the Artesian Waters, as it should be noted that the desert is full of his crystallized blood (per Edge of Destiny – which mentions that there’s even such found scarcely in the Dragonbrand). However, as I said above, the Crystal Desert expands further than we see… so what keeps Kralkatorrik to have created his swath of corruption off the map? Furthermore, the accuracy of the world map that’s unexplored is questionable in specific details – after all, Southsun Cove existed before we got access to it, and it wasn’t on the world map by that point – furthermore, the Dragonbrand begins at the big lake in the middle of the Blood Legion Homelands, but we can only see it starting further south than that – so the world map isn’t guaranteed to show where Kralkatorrik is, if for no other reason but to represent what players/common Tyrians know.
    Also, the Order of Whispers don’t keep tabs on any dragon directly. They keep tabs on the dragons’ influence. But even if they did, as Kalavier said – why spread this information yet? So adventurers seeking to make a name of themselves will ride off to their deaths as they do with Jormag and Zhaitan?

Why would they tell? Simple, to raise awareness of the dragons. That is something that is stressed through the whole game, that the races don’t understand the threat the dragons pose.

How would they tell? Simple, through their shady underworld contacts. LA was perfect for that sort of thing.

We haven’t heard a whisper of the trouble he is causing elsewhere in the world. For all we know, he may already be gnawing on Joko as we speak.